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lemeres's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 4,634 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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I am not sure why you necessarily need to go monk for AC. Goliath druids, unlike every other kind of druid, has absolutely no problems with armor whatsoever.

When you turn into a giant (a kind of humanoid), your equipment scales up with you. So you can use whatever armor and weapons you want.

So mostly, I do not see too much reason to dip monk. WIS to AC is nice, but without scaling on that AC boost, it will eventually get outclassed by normal armor. And while the unchained flurry is slightly better than regular flurry for multiclassing...it still feels rather 'meh' for the loss of spell levels, delay in wildshape (I would not even dream of multiclassing a goliath until after I get regeneration at level 12 myself) and a loss of BAB a lot of the time.

I would just use either the racial proficiency for battleaxe/warhammer (they hit like greatswords when large) or a scimitar (18-20, obviously) and be done with it. Combat reflexes too since giants have great reach.


Nathanael Love wrote:
I could almost buy this line of reasoning except that Dwarves, Gnomes, and Drow all have no problem smelting underground.

Well, I think this might have to do with underdark politics- ie- dwarves and drow are powerful enough to hold onto the huge caverns since they can fight in direct army on army warfare, and they can steam roll the other underdark denizens. Kobolds are more guerrilla fighters at best, and they need to stick to the small, often self created tunnel systems.


PIXIE DUST wrote:
The thing, many SR No spells pretty much every wizard always has prepared All the time. Summons, create pit, reverse gravity, ect. In fact the Admantine Golem would prove more a trouble to the fighter yhan a wizy.

Well, that one is hardly fair- adamantine golems are nearly indestructible enemies that you are more meant to avoid and delay until you find the one specific magical item needed to defeat it. It is hardly a good standard for direct battle, which is applied to almost every other enemy in some form or another.

Adamantine golems are more plot devices you throw at players before they get level 9 spells... and even then, you need to reduce it to negative HP before it can be destroyed.

But for the point about spells- then your GM is probably not challenging you well enough. Just randomly throwing golems at you at the start of the day will not do much. You have to have your resources spent by other encounters before he springs that on you. If you have it ALL the time, then you are not being challenged properly.


177cheese wrote:

I know it's dangerous to speak of realism in Pathfinder and tabletop in general, but one thing that raises questions for me is how a double barreled pistol can fire shots simultaneously to essentially double their damage.

I could be completely wrong here, but wouldn't two bullet wounds in nearly the same spot be equivalent to just one larger bullet?

Another thought: If a trident can strike with three prongs at once, shouldn't they do triple damage as well? Would the most efficient melee weapon be a stick with twelve knives in a circular pattern on the business end?

Ignoring the mechanical things... no, two bullets in the same sport are not the same as one large bullet- it might be worse. Think about trying to sew up a wound like that- it is hard to get a grip on and stretch the flesh between the two holes, since it is being used to sew up the other hole too. Ergo, you are less likely to get clean treatment of the wound, and that can lead to all sorts of problems.

If you live in a world without the ability to instantly heal wounds with even basic magic.

And on further though, it gets even worse. With a single bullet twice the mass and muzzle energy, you are more likely to go clean through. With lower energy, you tear more along the way. Also, since the distance is slightly different, there is twice the chance of hitting something importnt


Well, standard action summoning is great, but the fact that the saurian shaman summoning lets you do it with any reptile or dinosaur, and then lets you add up to two templates while using a higher level summoning spell gives you.... a ton of options, and allows old options to stay relevant as you go up in level.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Wait, are you talking about the fire rock stuff that comes out of the mountains sometimes? Okay I think I'm catching up.

I thought kobolds called it dragon vomit.

Admittedly, my source is not reliable, since I heard about it when I got a kobold drunk off of three dwarven meads (equivalent to roughly three taverns worth of mead...each)


Atarlost wrote:

Flint daggers are a stupid idea. They're less durable and -- when amortized over their expected lifetime -- more labor intensive than bronze daggers. And to be able to mine kobolds must at least have bronze. You can cast bronze over a regular fire. If you hit something too hard with a bronze dagger or pickaxe it bends and you can bend it back. For something thin like a dagger or sword you can straighten it by hand. If you hit something too hard with a flint knife you need to make a new one from scratch. If you manage to break a bronze weapon or tool you can melt it down and recycle it. If you break a flint weapon or tool you need to find more flint. Even unalloyed copper is better than flint, though I'm not sure it's up to making pickaxes.

Flint sucks and kobolds cannot do what they're famous for unless they're at least a bronze age civilization.

Not really.

The main reason why there was a switch from bronze to iron was availability*. Bronze is an alloy made out of several metals, notably copper and tin, some of which are relatively rare compared to iron. The bronze age relied upon trade, often across long distances, in order to get the right materials. To expect that a single mine would have veins of all the necessary metals is a bit of a stretch. I know wikipedia is a bit... 'meh' here, but it does have a lengthy article on Tin sources and trade in ancient times.

Although.... the system does count copper weapons the same as bronze, so that could be done...I suppose. Either that, or the fact that the kobolds are sitting on a tin mine is a major plot point and the very reason why adventurers are being sent.

Now, I suggested flint daggers because I was thinking of how the system handles stone weapons- 1/4 price, 3/4 weight, fragile property. Sounds about right for fodder. I am not an expert on flint weapons, their feasibility issues, or availability of material underground- so I am not sure how well that works out. Still, it can be made by the fodder themselves, as compared to the need for a smith and smelting operation. **

*Side discussion- I know there is hardness problems, but with the common sword and shield style, there would typically be too many direct clashes; compare that to the fact that bronze weapons have less catastrophic failures compared to iron. Bronze bends..and can be bent back with a little effort by anyone; iron breaks. Also, with classical and medieval smithing techniques (I know this is a world of magic, but the majority of smithing is done mundanely), you can melt bronze again and reuse it easily- not so much with iron and steel (particularly if it was pattern welded)

**I just thought about something- how...do kobolds blacksmith while underground? Do they need to make specialized areas with air vents in order to avoid carbon monoxide build up? How do they avoid the smoke from becoming a clear indication of a structural weakness in their defenses? While we are on the subject, how did dwarves smith (and gained a famed cultural talent for it too) when they lived underground prior to the Quest to the Sky?


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Atarlost wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:
But in real life, a long spear in a tight tunnel would be perfect.
In real life a long spear in a tight tunnel would be the sort of idiocy only seen in slapstick sketches. A long spear is around nine feet long. Since small reach weapons still have 10' reach they aren't actually any shorter. Mine tunnels don't have ceilings higher than the people mining them can reach and kobolds are short. A kobold tunnel is probably 5' square at most and would have a diagonal of a bit less than 7'1". A kobold with a long spear in a tunnel mined by kobolds physically cannot change the direction his spear points without breaking his spear.

Depends on how strictly you stick to "exactly 5'" format. If the sides were just 5'9", then the 8' long spear could make it. And since the kobolds are the ones making the tunnels, they can afford adding those extra couple inches.

I mean, getting the spear around would still be a challenge, it is possible.

Of course, there is the question 'would the kobold actually need to turn the spear around in the tunnels?'. I mean, they are the ones making the maze, and they know where adventurers are coming from (the entrance to the surface) Depending on the position, they might not need to turn around because they are on only path between the entrance and their hatchery. NINJA'd by Gaberlunzie with better diction- yeah, put them at choke points. That is the word for what I was thinking


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:
Aelryinth and KC - agreed, except for the dragon part. While konbolds are sometimes enslvaed by dragons, theyre not obsessed with serving them, and a dragon if anything would know to equip them with longspears, not because thry care about their lives but because they arefar more efficient at killing adventurers that way.

Kobolds actually are obsessed with serving dragons—at least in Golarion lore. They willingly seek out dragons or dragonlike entities to pledge their loyalty. This is pretty much just how kobolds work.

Also, the really stupid thing about polearms is that in a cave you can easily end up with your back against a wall. Without the easy ability to five-foot step, a polearm can be madness.

Well, that is a good reason why one should have backup weapons, like short swords. Or at least daggers (even if they are terrible flint daggers)

Still, yeah, using a reach weapon in the tunnels is problematic. I think they should only be used in wider rooms, such as living areas or food storage, and they should only be encountered in the tunnels when you have a kobold moving to defend such an area.

Also, there could just be murder rooms. Rooms set up purely as defensive locations- preferably with archer emplacements that can only be accessed by kobold sized tunnels. And the long spear users would mostly just be disposable fodder used to distract adventurers so they can't find a way up to the archers.


Spook205 wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Polearms were invented by peasants who needed a way to kill cavaliers. I don't think they're that advanced a premise. :P

Not meaning to sound as snarky as this will come across but..

They encounter a lot of momentum based mounted enemies in those tunnels?

Yeah... the main defense against mounted opponents for kobold warrens would be to make the tunnels kobold sized.

Of course, that would also be a defense against adventurers as well, at least ones that aren't plucky halflings or wacky gnomes.

While it is logical, it does make a huge problem as part of low level adventures. So I suppose you have to go with the contrivance that they need at least medium tunnels to efficiently move removed rock and soil, perhaps with small underground pack animals (the example of a kobold cavalier has a cave salamander)


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Gaberlunzie wrote:

Uhm... Kobolds live in huge colonies, are great miners andcommunaly-minded. They are mechanically skilledand of average intelligence. As generally lawful creatures with well-organized communities theres really no reason for them to have worse weapon imdustry than say, goblins or lizardfolk. Now, theres been good arguments here for why their resources are limited and equipment mediocre, some i a gree with and some not, but "humans dont allow them in their shops" is a really crappy one.

It works for ogres or bugbears, not for kobolds.

I will say that might limit some of the weapon options.

I mostly mean the lucerne hammer, the Bardiche, the Glaive-glaive-glaive-guisarme-glaive- that long list of martial reach weapons that came about due to large scale production for weapons of war and advancements in metallurgy in the medieval period. Those were born from centuries of experimentation with a rather large amount of resources. So unless you spend time getting up close look at human weapons (and for kobolds, that is a euphemism for 'death'), then it might be hard to justify the breadth of unique and sometimes specialized reach weapons.

But that certainly doesn't exclude long spears or glaives, which are fairly simple and and carry obvious advantages.


PIXIE DUST wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

Yes, this is an encounter that plays to the strength of certain classes.

Just like how martials do awesome against golems and other magic-immune monsters, while the casters lament their inability to do anything, so too does the alchemist (and gunslinger) do awesome against creatures with pitiful touch AC.

Actually funny thing that... Fighters have harder time vs golems than wizards....

Golems are imune to spells that allow SR. SR no spells still affect them... like Create Pit... or Reverse Gravity.

It depends on whether you have those spells prepared/spells known.

If you suddenly find yourself against a golem without the right spells, then yes, the guy with the sword might do better than you.

All a melee fighter needs is an adamantine weapon, and he is golden. Or a barbarian with a +2 furious weapon, an inquisitor that adds bane to a +2 weapon, or one of any number of archetypes across various classes that ignore dr and hardness.

There are plenty of relatively simple ways for melee to get around this without it being the entire point of their preparations. Each of those examples of things that people would have because they are nice in general, not because they fear they are facing SR soon.

Now, prior to many of those options being available, you are right. Still, SR is something that can hit at any level (and many golems and other constructs have rather good CR)


Aelryinth wrote:

Kobolds in his privy?

==Aelryinth

Only if he swallowed whole and didn't chew.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
In fairness, adventurers might be going to help out svirfneblin. Haha just kidding. Nobody goes to avenge a gnome, just like nobody goes to avenge a squirrel.

Hey, some druids might avenge a squirrel, since they are small and fluffy.

And some druids might try to avenge a gnome. The NE 'rules of the jungle' type druids. And it is more 'avenge my lost lunch'. Gnomes are nicely bite sized when you become a large creature, and they taste like skittles.


Atarlost wrote:
Tryn wrote:

"The crusader" has a good point:

Kobolds live in narrow small tunnels and caves.
If you fight in a close enviroment you will not use weapons which need a lot of space to be used effectivly (like most bludgeoning or slashing weapons). Also ranged weapons loose their biggest benefit (the range) as most fights are close/melee combat.
You will also use a relative compact weapon so you don't get stuck if you run thru the tunnels.

Based on this the best weapon would be a relative small stabbing (piercing) weapon >> aka shortspear.

So the weapon choice is logical (and "world building")

Except it's not. Slings take more space to use than bows or crossbows and have a higher arc, meaning they'll be obstructed more by the ceiling in caves. Crossbows have the flattest arc of non-firearm weapons in the game and are the appropriate ranged weapon for cavern dwellers.

Axes, picks and maces are very short and take very little space to use. If picks took too much space to swing in a tunnel mining with them would be impossible. Swords tend to be longer for a given weight, but short swords are a thing. And short swords in PF are thrusting weapons. Spears have two big problems. First, they're long. Even if you stab when you fight with them you swing them around when carrying them. Second, they use wood. Kobolds are not known for their woodsmen. Wood should be either an expensive import or an expensive product of rare surface acclimated kobolds.

Imagine a game of Dwarf Fortress in which you aren't allowed to perform any tasks outside. There are giant mushrooms growing in the underdark you can use as fuel and for shoring up mine tunnels, but they're softer than surface growing softwoods and completely useless for spear shafts or bows. Any spears would need to have all metal shafts. Long metal poles are heavy and kobolds have a huge strength penalty. Axes would need all metal shafts too. Military picks and maces, often do have all metal shafts and short swords are...

Well, it isn't that kobolds can't go outside- they just need to be smart about it. They have darkvision and a sensitivity to light- why not go outside during the dark? Fewer predators, fewer angry villagers and meddling adventurers. Seems like a good deal.

And really....a good deal of the equipment listed would be near impossible to make as we understand it without wood, at least with medieval technology levels. Axe and pick handles? A lot of the crossbow and almost all of a regular bow? All those traps are made from rocks tied together with rocks?

Hell- how are you smelting iron without wood to burn? I know about dwarf fortress, with its convenient lava flows...but really? That is cartoony. And I doubt you are going to find both veins of iron ore and coal in the same immediate area (ie- same cave system, since you are limiting us to never go outside).

I mean...a spear could be fashioned out of a stalactites ...stalagmites.... the point rock things. Not good ones, but it is possible.

Also- if the kobolds NEVER leave the undergound...why are adventurers bothering them? If they are in their hidey holes, why are you going down there to bother them, when they cannot do anything to you? Are you exterminating a tribe of sentient race for their mines (and do you have a party paladin that somehow fails to fall from this)?

As a contrivance for low level quests, the kobolds must leave their caves in order to bother the local farmers, or there is no reason to see them. They would just be an underdark creature of minor note (And fun fact- in setting, almost no one outside of the elves even know that drow exist- they have that little interaction with the surface)


Nathanael Love wrote:
The Crusader wrote:
While we're at it, why don't we rearrange their stat array. And let's adjust their racial ability scores. And some of these racial traits aren't that useful, so let's exchange them for something else. I don't really need them to be undergound. And frankly, I've never really cared for the name kobolds... can we just call them something else?

Yeah, why can't Kobolds be on level with real PC races?

+2 Charisma, +2 Dexterity,–2 Strength seems right-- small/weak, but nimble and draconic related CHR bump.

You mean scaly halflings. Bah.

Anyway, if we were changing the stats (and I still say bah to that) I think int is more appropriate. CHA is for plucky little heroes that overcome adversity with their can do attitude. It is for chaotic little fools.

No, INT is for kobolds, who realize the cost of trying to rise up without a plan. INT is for those that are smart enough find a way to win, even if they do not have outside force boosting them because they think a kobold can't survive unless it is physically stronger. INT makes silly things like strength and constitution not matter when enemies fall into spike traps, get crushed under carefully prepared cave ins, and feed the caged beasts let loose when some do gooders try to interfere with their home.


Mighty Glacier wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Mighty Glacier wrote:
Pre-unchained Summoner is either always banned or at least frowned upon.
Sweeping generalizations are always incorrect.

....'always'?

Isn't that a sweeping generalization?

Hyperboles are always generalizations.

Yeah, fine, not always banned. Again, hyperbole.

Wait...just noticed you used 'always' too.

Just to clarify: I was being 'cute' and saying that Scythia was making a sweeping generalization about sweeping generalizations.


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Scythia wrote:
Mighty Glacier wrote:
Pre-unchained Summoner is either always banned or at least frowned upon.
Sweeping generalizations are always incorrect.

....'always'?

Isn't that a sweeping generalization?


kestral287 wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
The Crusader wrote:

Ummm.... In that case, are all the human commoners extinct too?

EDIT: Ninja'd by lemeres.

Except there are whole litanies of heroes to protect human kind?
Who says there aren't 'litanies' of kobold heroes too?

Or they could have villains.

Like dragons. Kobolds do tend to serve dragons. It would be a general unspoken rules that there is a trade of valuable things (like mined gold) in return for protection.

Or maybe it is something more passive. The dragon allows kobolds to stay in his territory in return for worship and praise (because dragons just love inflating their egos) and the area is generally safe otherwise because the dragon would have cleared out any major dangers anyway (because owlbears go great with some bay leaf). When there is only one really dangerous dominant predator in the area, and it is generally cool with you being there, then it is a fairly safe area.

Of course, the amount of prey that a kobold tribe can hunt while being safe in a dragon's territory can be rather limited. Eventually, when the tribe grows too large, a portion of it must break off and try to find a new warren. And that is where adventurers come in- a tribe of kobolds have moved into the old mines, and have clogged up the supply of ore.


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Nathanael Love wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
The Crusader wrote:

I may have lost the thread here...

Has anyone said that you, the DM, can't give kobolds different weapons and armor? Because I've not seen that post. And frankly, I would laugh at the person who posted it.

Apparently his group did.

Which... I honestly did find pretty hilarious.

It's not a question of the DM can or can't do this or that.

The question is-- why is the default Kobold listed as something that's only possible purpose is to be slaughtered?

Or maybe another way to look at it--

How are there still Kobolds left on Golarian or any of these other worlds where they arm themselves as a rule with such poor choices of weapons>?

I assume that the last Kobold was slaughtered 14,000 years ago and no one has seen one since?

Commoners are hardly any stronger, and we still have those. Take the pig farmer npc- armed with mostly a club, 9 AC, and only a few more hp than the kobold.


...dazed creatures can't take actions. That means you could possibly stun lock enemies. Sure, there is a dc, but it is 1/2 hd+str, and the anklosaurus has decent enough strength at that point- it is fairly reliable (a little less than witch hexes- mostly due to lower HD as an animal companion)

I think that is fairly on par with pounce. Heck, might be more valuable later on when it is knocking the sense out of casters that have enough hp to survive a pounce.

Heck, thinking about it, it might be more valuable not to turn the ankylosaurus into a pouncing machine with a ton of attacks with primal companion- at level 9, animal companions with 1-2 attacks get an extra attack at BAB-5 with one of their weapons- that means you get another tail attack, which means another chance to daze...or even stun with a crit. (getting pounce on that and maybe a bite with 1.5x str and power attack by taking the bite evo twice wouldn't be a bad idea though)


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Tiger is better in general unless you're going with the Primal Companion Archetype. If going with that Archetype, both have good points, but the Ankylosaurus is probably better.

Well, looking at a primal companion, everything the tiger has can be replicated with evo points, but the dazed from the tail can't be copied.

Anyway, while the tiger as better melee, it all depends- are you use using the companion as a beat stick? With that powerful debuff, the anklosaurus is a fine tool for improving the hunter's own attacks. In comparison, your hunter might have trouble getting into position to back up a tiger pouncing around the battle field (which means you might get less use out of all those teamwork feats)

Anyway, for build advice- while celestial companion is nice, I think spirit's gift might have a higher priority- that allows your companion to get the same buff that a shaman's familiar gets, and you can switch them around each day. So that means you can easily give it constant blurr (attacks against it have a 20% miss chance) or DR 5/adamantine. Those are fantastic defensive buffs that make your companions extremely tanky early on.


Then this looks like a time to bring out a cleric of Asmodeus... or a 'religiously themed 9 level caster that also uses melee in service for our dark judge and master'.

And you can always give all sorts of snicker inducing meanings to the 'bad touch' cleric doing debuff touch spells. Or bring the whole choir on people's heads with summon spells.


Well, if you shoved heal bot off on the pixie, you can begin to think of the cleric as something other than 'that healing class'.

There are a whole wonderful world of cleric spells that do not have teh word 'cure' in them.

Not sure how appropriate is is to make a character with class levels into your familiar though. That is for you and your table to decide if it is acceptable balance wise. If you already have this pixie hanging round, why not just add a regular familiar as well?


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Opuk0 wrote:

I would totally love to fight these optimized kobolds by the wave at level 1

Who doesn't love getting TPK'ed on their first session?

/sarcasm

I'd prefer to think of a TPK on your first session to be called a one-shot.

If character death isn't a relevant factor, even at first level, then why even have monsters or combat in the game?

The question is not so much 'getting killed', but rather 'getting killed in 1 hit by a 1/4 cr enemy'.

I have always advocated skipping level 1- far, far too swingy. If you were starting off with a bit higher level (and thus a bit more hp), then better equipped kobolds would not be as big a problem.

Basically- the nature of level 1 requires the 'you will all most likely survive this' enemies to be.... well kobolds with spears and 9 str.


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OH, or how about bane weapons on loan? The kind of thing that is great to have when it is needed, but it seems kind of a waste to buy a decent one to carry all the time?

Having them for rent seems like a great option. Heck, that is the main concept behind one of the inquisitor's class features (balance wise, since that cheapens the inquisitor's bane ability, you might want to tweak it a bit so it gives an extra +1 and 1d6 on existing bane so they are not made mostly obsolete...unless there is already something for these situations in rules; not an expert)

Of course, confusing the situation sometimes and having the players deal can also be a part of the adventure's challenge. Making you think that you are facing zombies, when it is really that one weird plant based 'not-a-zombie' is something you should expect, since accurate intel gathering can often be a tricky thing.


Cap. Darling wrote:
lemeres wrote:

...perhaps the diamond on its own would be worthless from real world jewelry standards. Maybe the diamond is only worth that much money because it has the right qualities as a spell component.

Maybe it only costs that much because every church, king, warlord, wizard, and petty noble are trying to hoard the things for their value as a magical component.

I am gonna use this in my next game, somhow. Thanks:)

It could be an interesting plot point in a lower level campaign- people find a ring with an ugly little gem, and they don't realize it is a highly prized item (since normal people would not be familiar with something that rare).

It could be the start for a campaign where gangs and master thieves target some poor sod for no apparent reason (and he needs protection some intrepid do gooders). And after they get someone with a good appraise check to look at it, you then have to struggle to find a buyer rather than just giving the ring up because the guy needs the money to.... save the civic center or something.


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Mark Hoover wrote:
2. Economy: who are they mining/trapmaking FOR? WHY are they so good at stealth? For fun? Is sneaking up on people comedy among kobolds? No, I'd postulate they are actively stalking the dozens of races they have a grudge against, some of whom (Gnomes) are Small sized.

The big bad monster of the week.

Remember, kobolds are often bullied into being the subservient race of whatever local creatures have even a little strength.

From being forced to give every scrap of iron to the orc war machine to looking for every gold nugget to please their dragon overlord, there are a lot of good reasons why kobolds might not have time or resources for making good weapons.


Chess Pwn wrote:

I'd suggest something like

8/18+2/12/10/14-2/8+2

Or

9/18+2/14/8/14-2/7+2

I doubt you need it quite that high. Guns target touch AC (and advanced ones target it for all of their range) so attack bonus is not that vital. Dropping it by 2 dex only means 1 less damage, but it means you have room to get more than a 12 starting wis (and thus more grit).


Reach user with tentacle back up.

The tentacle threatens close, and if it is your only natural attack it is primary with full attack bonus plus x1.5 str and power attack.

Once you make it viable with that, you can begin to enjoy the goodness of the grab ability. A free no AoO grapple attempt on a successful hit, with a +4 to the attempt, makes grappling a viable strategy when backed up with decent BAB, strength boosting mutagen, and buffs.

At least enough that you can use the tentacle to get all....japanese animes.... with the low BAB/str magical girls (or guys...if that is what you are into).

Anyway, building up the basics of a reach build, and then getting grappling feats (since you have enough int for combat expertise anyway) can be fit together rather well on the same build. You can have everything together by level 9 so that you get even more bonuses to grappling, as well as better action economy with it. All the while, you still have access to a nice 2 handed reach weapon, bombs, and extracts.


...perhaps the diamond on its own would be worthless from real world jewelry standards. Maybe the diamond is only worth that much money because it has the right qualities as a spell component.

Maybe it only costs that much because every church, king, warlord, wizard, and petty noble are trying to hoard the things for their value as a magical component.


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Gaberlunzie wrote:
Well, different tribes are at different places. If theyre in a cave somewhat close to the surface, hunting parties that go out at night makes perfect sense. Food in the deep underground is somewhat limited, and while farming certain plants that dont require much light as well as keeping underground animals might work, any tribe that has reasonable access to the surface will probably use it as much as possible.

Most likely there would at least be a little hunting at night (darkvision and light blindness and all).

I would imagine the ones encountered during the day might be idiots that didn't go back home before sunrise. And really...would you give an idiot like that a valuable weapon to lose when he is ganged up on by adventurers (or atleast a few angry farmers with pitchforks)?


3- yes, it is a dungeon filled with some of the worst traps imaginable (like political marriages *BAM* I'm here all week, tip your waitress)

Alright a revised list for more general game play issues

1. Connections to other guilds for cheaper access to magical items. Possibly allowing you to commission things.
2. Access to human resources and connections. Possibility to get specialized NPCs (like a researcher with a ton of knowledge skills who is otherwise useless in a fight). Or perhaps just general information (list of usual monsters in the area you are going to; perhaps bare bones info like DR and type)
3. Leadership that knows who you need to talk to for your current task (in game play terms...this might end up being the fortune teller in videogames that always tells you where the next plot point is...)
4. Someone to pay bail money when you get caught by the guards for... whatever.
5. Depending on the circumstances- someone to deliver specialized goods (scrolls of restoration, +1 holy or ghost touch weapons, scroll of banishment) while you stay on the current task. For a fee, of course, but being able to just send a message and getting it delivered seems like a nice option


Mark Hoover wrote:
The problem is that guilds for other classes actually PRODUCE something the PCs can use...

There are other reasons to form a guild, although shared resources are a rather good one.

Here are other main reasons to form a guild, which can go for any guild (and trade union today, I suppose)-
1. guarantee of quality
2. protection from abuse by clients
3. shared pool of political influence

With one, the guarantee of quality comes from the fact that the guild doesn't pick up any farmer that picks up a sword. There can be entry tests, as well as continued training to improve the general skills of all members. That, combined with a ranking system perhaps (based upon completed assignments and difficulty of assignments) can tell those that hire these warriors 'yes, they can complete this job'.

It also means that unscrupulous members can face sanctions, and possibly lose guild membership. The idea that your bodyguards might betray you and steal your goods, with no one ever knowing, is a serious concern when you are just hiring random people with a reputation. But with the contract records held by the guild, it is much more likely someone is going to ask 'what happened to that merchant you were supposed to be guarding?'

This protection of course goes both ways- the guild will hold clients to their contract, and as such they can't skimp you on the fees, or force you to do something illegal for your pay. Contracts and general guild policy likely hold protection that allows you to back out if things are getting shady, or if the 'protect me from muggers' mission suddenly turns into 'oh, and I am taking a detour through DRAGON DEATH VALLEY'.

A shared pool of political interest comes from the fact that the guild, which should generally set itself up as the main private provider of protection, can have its members withold services, allowing now defenseless merchants to place pressure on the government. That can give them some leeway if there are 'unfortunate misunderstandings' when a member gets into a barfight, for example. It also means that the guild knows who to contact and how to contact them if clients are caught up in some weird political struggle. Also, as guards, the members might end up witnessing some....sensitive scenes... that could give them leverage against certain rich and powerful people (the thieves' guild don't have a monopoly on blackmail)

Also, if we are looking at more tangible resources and services the guild can provide- it can negotiate with the mages' guild and the church to trade guards in return for cheap magical items. Providing muscle (...meatshields) when they have to exterminate undead or gather valuable material components, and in return they give access to healing potions and magical weapons at a discount. Having a hold on a valuable resource like reliable manpower can give them a certain degree of clout with other guilds in order to protect each others' interests.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Comparing an Unarmed Specialist Class to those with weapons is not what a Guide to a class is about. If that is the case why play a class that does not use manufactured weapon.

Not to mention Pummeling Charge mimics Pounce which is what most Barbarians build to.

For unarmed damage and a class that gets an abundance of feats due to MF and Bonus feats it is definitely worth it.

Not to mention you can't have the best feats without some investment and the ability to Charge, Full attack and Apply DR to a Pool of attacks 1 time is definitely worth it...as Weapon users do not get that option Unless they are a Lancer character using Spirited Charge and a Lance getting 3x damage applied to DR 1 time. Helps mitigate not having Special gear/weapons. But the Lancer is still only getting 1 attack. =/ So it really is a golden Feat chain.

And this appears to be a guide where damage dealing is secondary to debuffing with maneuvers and such. With that in mind, a regular manufactured weapon is 'good enough' for fulfilling the secondary purpose of doing damage using only feats that you were getting anyway (like power attack).

And manufactured weapons have their appeal on brawlers. It is not 'unarmed or you are doing it wrong' here. The main advantage of manufactured weapons is that some of them can be 2 handed. With two handed, you can get x1.5 power attack on every hit. That can wrack up to a lot. Combine that with way cheaper enhancement costs (which is applied to every hit- a hidden advantage of flurry where you only need to invest in one weapon) and you can stack things up with better enhancement bonuses.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
A lot

Well, pummeling style probably comes off as green/blue because it costs feats, which a character focused on martial versatility and maneuvers might find as a problem (since those feats could be used for more common prerequisites).

As in, despite the costs in feats and enhancement weirdness, it still comes out as 'it is a good decent choice' green when put up against the simplicity of regular manufactured weapons. So that speaks to its value.


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Of course, we should also consider ease of carry and what the kobold expects to face in their daily life.

When it was allowed, civilians often just carried a sword and buckler, perhaps, as self defense weapons. Not exactly the best thing against a man in full plate with a lucerne hammer... but enough to face off against a random mugger with similar weapons. Because the mugger doesn't want the guards asking him 'why do you have a polearm?' or 'would...perhaps...know anything about people being mugged with polearms? why am I asking...no reason'

So for the common kobold, a spear might be enough to scare off a random farmer that was wandering in the woods. It is hardly more threatening than a dagger mechanically... but if I was walking down the street and someone pulled a knife out on me...I would probably hand out my wallet... so that counts as 'enough' in this kind of circumstance.

Now, if you are doing a full on raid on the kobold den, and they had the time for sentries to send message back telling them you were coming... yeah, then I would expect that at least a few of the kobolds would get something better from their armory. Crossbows, a few swords, a few long spears...and then a few of the lower level ones would still just use simple spears.


Dwarves also have a similar advantage since they get +2 against spells/SLAs (and poisons), and a racial feat to increase that to +4.

But for a brawler (who only really needs to worry about will, since it has good fort and reflex), half elves can be more reliable since that +2 works on any kind of will save, even against supernatural abilities.

It is the kind of difference you notice when you are facing off against a vampire using the charm super natural ability- Half elves get the +2 generic will save boost as well as the +2 against enchantment 'spells and effects', while the dwarves get zip.

Dwarves give a better general bonus, but the half elves are more conservative and lack the highly exploitable flaw. Plus, they do not need to spend a valuable feat (which could be used for common prerequisites to ease martial versatility) to get the full effect of their save buff. So half elves are easier just to plug in as a generic 'good' race for most martial classes with weak will saves.


I might mention- switching out the half elves' skill focus for the dual minded trait can be rather nice. A +2 to your weak save, and it stacks with the +2 against enchantments. So overall, along with iron will, it makes your will save into 'not much of a problem'.

Heck, if you play your low level options right, you might make the caster cleric jealous early on.


1.) Elves do not have the ability to avoid sleep in this game. That was not an ability that was carried over. I am pretty sure the trance thing is intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, since it was never part of the open game liscence material like the explicitly statted abilities.

I am pretty sure the only paizo thing referencing trance was made for 3.5

If you had a race that doesn't sleep- yes, you could stay melded all the time.

4.) Nope. You are only limited to the physical abilities of the eidolon. If you pick a form without arms, adn you do not spend evo points to get arms, then no arms for you. And thus no somatic spells for you.

That is what you trade for the ability to get up to 32 arms (assuming biped half elf with the favored class option and spending ALL your points into arms). Not that 32 arms would be a smart thing...at all.


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Snowblind wrote:
Good thing kobolds are extremely socially orientated creatures. If the most experienced kobold warriors know that scimitars tend to inflict grevious wounds frequently based on their experience watching their friends get cut down by murder hobos adventurers then they are reasonably likely to warn younger kobolds about it, given...

Having a variety of weapons does strain plausibility if their particular mine is not connected to any decent ore veins.

Spears have been popular across cultures throughout histories because they are relatively cheap and easy to produce. From sharpened sticks to full on spear heads, they require less expertise and resources than swords.

Before giving them a lucerne hammer, I would maybe limit it to just giving them a long spear, or perhaps a nice ax (also relatively simple to produce, or perhaps steal from loggers and refit for a smaller size)

I certainly wouldn't give them greatswords or nodachis (which require a rather high degree of metallurgy to produce, a lot of metal, and even more metal to practice the necessary smithing skills)


Well, a generic adventurer's guild would probably suffice. Just have random selection of basic quests on the wall. That should be non-binding enough for most parties. And giving a selection of small scenarios lets the party pick the basic premise of what they are doing (although it might not end up quite as they expect when they get there)

At low levels, the majority of such a guild would be martial characters, with the occasional drop out from the mages' or thieves' guilds here and there. It doesn't need to be exclusive- just have the guild mainly deal with things where it is more natural for a martial character to handle things.

After having the guild deal with things at the level range where martials do most of the work, and then have the party go onto bigger and better things past that once they get to mid levels (presumably the main thread of the campaign).

Maybe have the random quest notices on the wall have small connections hinting at a larger problem (example- I lot of undead start forming and the guild has been dealing with it case by case- may lead to a campaign where you find a lich trying to activate a necromantic artifact, and the energies from this process have flooded the region and allowed lesser undead to form more easily)


The main problem here is recognizing that you are facing a fiendish fey creature. If you somehow figure that out (perhaps an NPC tells you), then applying basic information from general fiendish and fey creatures is nto hard. So here are the main ones:

Fey- weak to cold iron, some illusion and enchantment SLAs
Fiendish- stronger ones have DR/good, some energy resistences

Of course, you can always learn things through good old trial and error. Find that your hits are ineffective? Try golf bagging and getting some bless weapon oils. Once you find your hits working, it doesn't matter what your knowledge check is, you already know 'this is a creature that is weak to this'.


Well, I suppose...but you have to use the claws first.

This is an issue that came up with defending, which has similar 'move enhancement bonus to X' mechanics.

The ruling was that you need to actively use the weapon to attack for it to count.

So while it can be theoretically nice (a +1 furious allying amulet giving the ally a +3, possibly piercing through some DR), it does not seem like a good use of your time (you are making claw attacks you are intentionally nerfing, rather than making actually good claw attacks, using a weapon, or casting spells), and as such it is a waste of money.


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The same reason why you do not have a short bow and a lucrene hammer- you do not particularly plan to fight armed mercenaries today.

The kobold you see with a spear and sling? He is probably hunting rabbits or something for lunch. He has the basic weapons needed to bring down a small animal.

And maybe the kobold tribe does have good weapons. It is just that they are put away in the armory for dire situations, like when adventurers come charging in. And even then, there are probably only enough good items for the trained kobolds who are the main encounters of that dungeon, and the rest just grab basic hunting gear as a 'just in case' kind of deal.

And why don't they arm all the kobolds for battle when they go out?.... man, they are 1 hd kobolds, they die just as easily whether they have a sling or a greatsword when there are more than 1 creature, or anything with 5+ hd. Do you want to lose resources arming NOOBs who would get killed anyway? Do you want to fill some adventurers' wallets with loot?


Opuk0 wrote:

Thank you kindly

That still seems rather unnecessary to point out though.

So is the only real difference the damage scaling and full strength for monks unarmed strikes?

There is also the argument that only monk unarmed strikes are allowed to be counted as both natural and manufactured weapons.

Which can be rather important now, since just skipping the amulet of mighty fists and going with greater magic fang/weapon is a viable strategy with pummeling style.


Opuk0 wrote:

That seems like an odd distinction to make in the Monk Unarmed Strike section then, especially considering the constant lack of space that was mentioned before hand.

Can I get the ruling or faq please?

Because who would use unarmed strikes in the CRB other than monks? They were the only ones really using it, so why not put the rules in easy access so people don't have to look them up.

Anyway, here is the CRB on unarmed strikes:

CRB, Combat section wrote:

Unarmed Attacks

Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:


Metal Sonic wrote:
Hubaris wrote:
A rogue really isn't even a trained person though.
Pathfinder Unchained wrote:

Never knowing what to expect, they prepare for everything, becoming masters of a wide variety of skills, training themselves to be adept manipulators, agile acrobats, shadowy stalkers, or masters of any of dozens of other professions or talents.

Rogues aren't petty thieves or some purse cutter. He's a trained professional.

Eh, just because you train in something doesn't mean you are a professional. Anyone in little league can tell you that. So they can be professionals...or they could just be guys making do with a bit of sleight of hand and banter.


torvar72 wrote:
twf????

The common abbreviation of two weapon fighting


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Kaladore wrote:

@JCServant- Well..You've convinced me to make natural armor effective against bombs and bullets.(Source:Godzilla movies)

A bomb that misses due to natural armor only does splash damage.
Bullets just fail to penetrate.
How does that sound for a fix?

but...at the same time....the fact that heavy ordinance explosives are the only effective solution against this creature just SOUNDS right to me. Y'know?

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