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lemeres's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 3,726 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Forgot to mention- another advantage of lunge on reach builds is that you can full attack anything in a 45' wide circle. So that can also boost your effective damage, since it would not be too hard to get those attacks in.

Oh, and for solving key fighter (and most martial character) problems- Half elves are a great race choice. They have an alt trait that gives them +2 to will saves, and elven immunity gives them +2 against enchantments. So that, some wis, and maybe iron will would be enough to protect you from dominate spells.

The new mutagen warrior is also an archetype to consider. It lets you keep weapon training, and gives you an alchemist's mutagen on top of it, so great damage potential. It also gives you access to the wings discovery at level 7. Flight is always fantastic.


Well, a couple simple yet effective things I know about:

Reach builds. A favorite for dealing damage and still providing battlefield control. Turn yourself into a 25' wide circle of pain that enemies do not want to cross.

Power attack and combat reflexes are the basics. For weapons, the new fortuitous property is FANTASTIC. When you get in an AoO with a fortuitous weapon, you can get another one in at BAB-5, although this only happens once per round. That is basically a small full attack, all outside of your turn, and the weapon property is only a +1. So this is a BIG boost in damage, as you can guess. This really brings the pain against anything that tries to just go by you, and seriously turns you into a 25' wide obstacle that enemies have to waste time avoiding.

I also like the lunge feat, since it helps simplifies tactics and allows for great positioning for AoOs.

Normally, when you use a reach weapon and you attack an enemy, the enemy ends up 10' away. That means the enemy only needs to take a 5' step to reach you, which means no AoO and they get their full attack. This also means that if you attack first, there will most likely be no AoO.

With lunge, enemies end up 15' away. That means that msot will have to move 10' to reach you. That means an AoO and they most likely lose their full attack. So lunge gives you great offense and defense. So no matter what, you are most likely going to get an AoO against anything that you engage.

Other things: I like grabbing Cornugon smash for an intimidate build, and then finding a way to get Riving Strike on there. Riving strike is a feat that relies on arcane strike. You can qualify for arcane strike if you have an SLA (usually, fighters get it from race or a trait). When you hit something with arcane strike, riving strike forces the enemy to take a -2 to saves against spells. Combine that with the intimidation from Cornugon smash, and your one attack can make the enemy take a -4 to saves. Your party wizard will love you.


James Jacobs wrote:

It's mostly an art thing, so that you can see in art that any one character is tied to any one eidolon.

It's also an in-game thing, since eidolons can literally look like ANYTHING. That means that they can look identical to, say, a wolf or a minotaur or a vrock, or like something completely unique, such as the iconic's eidolon. Yet there still needs to be a way, in world, for characters to identify the fact that the creature is an eidelon and not a wolf or a minotaur or a vrock or some new monster. The rune is that way.

Take the rune away and there's no way to tell that something's an eidolon. Since that's pretty much the ONLY thing that an eidolon is guaranteed to have.

Whether or not the inability to recognize an eidolon for what it is is a good thing or a bad thing in your game should inform whether or not you want them to share runes with their summoners. The rune doesn't need to appear on the eidolon's head, though.

Obviously, for us, we feel that it's important that the rune DOES appear on the eidolon. How you rule in your games is up to you.

"So people can have knowledge checks", basically? A nice obvious sign that is an easy explanation of why the knowledge check works (instead of having to come up with an unique line of bull every time, like "your 'wolf's' legs are not of the right proportion for a northern great timberwolf").

I mean, the fact that it can be hidden with a normal disguise is also an option that was left open. A perfectly normal disguise check to wear a hat and have it secure so that the symbol doesn't peak out (which is an explanation for why a successful perception would allow enough details to come out so they could do a knowledge check and go 'ah, an eidolon').


I think the maneuver ones are interesting.

Strangely, barbarians are fantastic at maneuvers. To some extent, better than a fighter. They just need 1 ragepower/feat for rage power per maneuver, and it usually has some weird twist that makes it great (the 2 conditions of savage dirty trick). The investment is light, yet effective.

Combine that with the rage power that adds your barbarian level to the maneuver's bonus 1/rage (which gets much more interesting when you rage cycle), and you can mess enemies up.


pennywit wrote:
666bender wrote:

i am a cavalier from cheliax and dont want a horse. DM allow all logical mounts from a region even if not on the list.

what is a proper mount ?>
A halfling.

No, a wholeling.

That is two halflings tied together. Typically with blinders and feed bags.


Barathos wrote:
leo1925 wrote:
A knight with a big ego would want a stallion so great and pure that every other knight's horse is put to shame.

Would we represent its purity with a low con or what? :P

Ah, and we go to the good old fashioned method of making yourself pure and blanch white- arsenic.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Worgs seem like an option for small cavaliers. I mean, they accept LE riders, so they would likely work well.

Lions and tigers are probably popular too, since they are all regal and exotic. Plus they can provide after dinner entertainment using the slaves when you have a devil over. I mean, your castle has a large, complicated maze for a reason.

And now that the jokes are over- hippogriffs and griffons seem like they might also be a thing, since flying mounts can carry messages and important personnel fairly quickly. That means better efficiency of the bureaucracy.


Well, size might not be an issue depending on what issues you pick. Not everyone has to go huge. Even large gets you a lot (remember, large is 8'+, which is just a bit above upper human range), and since strength increase evos cost much less if you just stay medium, you can stay competitive in terms of raw damage without any size change anyway.

Also, the fact that you look terrifying might not be too much of an issue. Just drop a point into the skilled (disguise) evo and put at least 1 skill point into disguise (maybe get a trait to get that as a class skill). With a decent check, you can make yourself look like the guy constantly wearing fullbody armor. Of course, this assumes bipedal, rather than the centaur everyone wants to go with. Still, centaurs are a thing you can disguise as, and they only face mild racism (I think being a half orc is likely worse, quite honestly)

Not to say that summoning isn't powerful, but there are still certain advantages that make synthesists harder to deal with than your normal summoner wizard or cleric.


Kudaku wrote:
lemeres wrote:
(...)That was back when crane style was...well...good, and made a perfect style to pair up with snake style, since it could take out the higher BAB attacks that would obviously be hits. I vaguely remember hearing something about an errata though (I would love to see if anyone has a link to that discussion).

It wasn't so so much an errata as another rewrite of the feat. The changes to Crane Wing can be read here, and the new version reads like this:

Quote:
Benefit: Once per round, when fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you can designate a single opponent you can see. You receive a +2 dodge bonus to AC against that opponent for one round. If you using the total defense action instead, you can deflect one melee attack that would normally hit you. An attack so deflected deals no damage and has no other effect (instead treat it as a miss). You do not expend an action when using this feat, but you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

If turtling actually worked, then yes, this would be a return to the joyous days of old. You could get in a riposte as well as the hits gained from misses with snake style.

But unfortunately, consistently just standing there waiting to get hit does not do much in this system. C'est la vie.


Just a note: when you do finally prove your point to your GM (probably after soloing APL+5 boss encounters), then you can probably rework your build so that it gets watered down and works with the primal companion hunter instead.

The primal companion hunter lets you add eidolon evos to your companion for minutes/level. But if you do not have an animal companion, those sweet, sweet evos go to your hunter instead.

This set up is similar to synthesist, but lacks many of the components that lead to brokenness. You use your own base stats, you only get your own set of hp, and you do not get the scaling bonuses to strength and natural armor eidolons get (only the ability score and na increasing evos, which are fair enough to compare to rage or judgements on their own).

Still, you get rather nice bonuses from evos, and you can do things like grabbing flight, DR, energy restistance, and a ton of other cool stuff. The hunter also comes with martial weapon proficiency, which means you can grab a katana without a GM fiat.


Sam Parsons 736 wrote:

World Worm Druid:

Race: Human (w/ focused study alt racial)
Class: Druid
Archetype: Menhir Savant
Domain: Earth (Cave)
Concept: Ulfen raised by elves, mastered earthen druidry and fey ley line magic, reveres the purple worm for its size, strength, and destructive potential and wants to harness its power (via summon elder worm spell)..

Godblood:
Race: Aasimar (Angelkin) (w/ halo alt racial)
Class: Paladin
Prestige Class: Divine Scion (Domain: Glory)
Holy Weapon: Scimitar
Deity: Sarenrae
Other Weapon: Spiked heavy shield
Concept: An arrogant, golden-skinned, blue-eyed, white-haired, muscular Angelkin Aasimar Paladin of Sarenrae who wants to achieve godhood.

That first one reminds me- I have been working and looking into the rules behind how druids use wildshape to take on elemental forms.

There are several relevant rules questions behind this that can be a bit vague- since the elemental subtype gives simple weapon proficiency when they have a human-like shape, does that mean I can have hands? Could I use wildshape as an improved version of enlarge person (complete with DR eventually) that lasts all day? Could I just buy a large sized scimitar and armor and go to town?

Secondly- while discussing there, there has been a suggestion that you can't take equipment like weapons with you when you earthglide. But I have yet to see any such restriction through the half dozen different ways to earth glide (seriously, the thing needs to be standardized). If you can, the going earth elemental for large strength and natural armor bonuses (and size increase) can be a great idea. With the cave domain (the terrain one, not the earth subtype) giving out tremor sense, you can be the 10 tall rock creature that sneaks up behind the BBEG.


chaoseffect wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Summoning them is the main reason why I think the first world summoner might be worth anything. Just summoning them to spread about the battle field and act as conduits for an automatic AoE, no save misfortune hex.
Why take a horrible archetype for them when you can just be a horrible person instead? Summon Evil Monster adds them to the list too, which means any Summoner I make in the future that is actually based around summoning is going to at least be kind of a dick in order to qualify.

Because it synergizes with pugwampi use to a certain extent.

The unluck aura doesn't work on animals (And gnolls, for flavor reasons). So having Summon Nature's Allies, which is full of animal summons on all levels, seems like a decent enough idea.

Plus, if you were a normal summoner, and you wanted to focus on your summon monster SLA, then your eidolon would not be a big deal anyway.

There are also arguments that you can have multiple summons and your eidolon out at the same time with first worlder. This mostly comes from the fact that it replaces the normal SLA ability rather than altering it, yet doesn't carry over the same restrictive language. So the eidolon can act as your normal wand and skill monkey just like a master summoner's would.


Eldarion Telcontar wrote:
Hmm wrote:

But isn't your hippogriff an animal companion? Or are you just able to ride and own a random hippogriff who is not bonded to you?

If it is an animal companion, it seems that you are not giving up much with this ranger archetype. You lose your choice of the ranger standard animal companions for a flying mount, and you get earlier access to it?

Hmm

Yes, but is it worth giving up two feats for?

Well, the fact that it comes in 2 levels early and increases your effective druid level by 2 helps. It means that you could possibly skip the boon companion feat completely. That saves 1 feat.

But yes, this might not be the best path for a build that is in love with the combat style feats, like archery. It works well enough for a mounted melee attacker though, since they are likely to simply go with a nice lance for a 2 handed style. Maybe add in combat reflexes for reach. Simple enough.


Just a Mort wrote:

Fighter? Lol.

You even have all those free combat feats to persue improved maneuvers.

Lets say fighter drrinks a potion of enlarge person before he gets to business.And has combat reflexes. Said giant charges the fighter, provoking aoo for movement.

"I trip the giant. Because I have greater trip, I get an aoo as the giant comes down. I disarm the giant's club with greater disarm and put it 15 ft away from the giant."

Giant stands up, takes an attack of opportunity. If giant does not, on the fighters turn he gets full attacks on a prone, unarmed giant.

Another one:

Half orc paladin with beast rider and combat reflexes. Stegosaurus companion. Anytime an enemy provokes an aoo (ie by movement), both the paladin and his stegosaurus mount lash out. The stegosaurus has a chance to trip on hit, so there may be cases of a prone foe.

I also like to throw on some decent roles with the feats. Cornugon smash and Riving strike gets your party's Save or Die wizard to love you since you can make enemies take a -4 to saves when you smack them in the head.

Works well for reach if you have lunge due to the 45' wide circle thing. A full attack gives you plenty of chances to get those hits in and get that intimidate check in.

Sure, anyone can pull all that off with the right feats, but fighters get it in early, which is generally nice.


Then you want a Qadiran Horselord archetype (I am putting the link text directly since I am getting some weird thing with links; remove a space found around the first %20 : http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Cavalier%20 Qadiran%20Horselord)

This cavalier archetype lets you get the double damage lance thing with 1 handed slashing weapons instead. That lets you get a weapon that is much more distinctly Dothraki, no?

It is also cool since it gives you spring attack while mounted, and that spring attack counts as a charge. This archetype is all about high mobility while getting a lot of damage.


HyperMissingno wrote:
Zaboom! wrote:
Cavaliers. Reach helps hit thing from horseback. Or camelback, if you like charging into battle and...spitting. Anything that can gain a bite attack does good too, since they can kinda ignore the one penalty of reach weapons.
There's actually something I want to try eventually, and that's an Honor Guard of the order of the shield using a reach weapon, Stand Still, and Intercept Charge to prevent any opponent from reaching and attacking the party.

stand still is adjacent squares, unfortunately.


Small Angry Golem wrote:
To me, it seems a much more flexible strategy would be needed if a country were to rise up from near nothing. If I was assured of the backing of a large population, it might not be an issue, but this character is essentially building a half elf Israel without the help of the UN.

Worse than that, the people you are working with do not even have much of a shared religious background, nor a sense of unity because the land was their ancestor's homeland.

Instead, you have a race which is often made up of freewilled wanderers who might decide to flake and go back to wandering if things get though.

I seriously believe that making a mercenary group, and using that to build up a military force, wealth, and connections first would be a wise idea.


Imbicatus wrote:

Sohei Monks are great reach weapon specialists. The ability to flurry polearms, combined with early access to mounted skirmisher make you a mobile melee battle platform, while retaining IUS to threaten adjacent if needed.

Dragoon Fighter is also great, with the best weapon training available, banner, and the ability to threaten adjacent via spinning lance.

Both need animal ally/boon companion to get the mounts they should have though.

Ah, sohei is certainly a fine choice, even if you do not get an animal companion. I know they are not exactly true full BAB, but they get enough bonuses from weapon training and gloves of dueling that they can still hit extremely well with their AoOs.

If you grab lunge, then the sohei can full attack anything in a 45' circle, which should allow a lot more flurries.


Panguinslayer7 wrote:
Pugwampi, as a DM their unluck along with others allows me to not only extend their use for players that would normally slaughter their CR but also extends the use of the monsters they are grouped with.

Summoning them is the main reason why I think the first world summoner might be worth anything. Just summoning them to spread about the battle field and act as conduits for an automatic AoE, no save misfortune hex.

The fact that they can do things like flank or aid other is just a bonus. Heck. the fact that they are so deliciously weak is a bonus (the best strategy to use unluck is to spread them out, which also means that the enemy has to waste time and divide their forces to chase them down. )

Mark Hoover wrote:

I prefer humanoids or fey, specifically kobolds or mites.

Kobolds: tack on NPC levels for CR -3 instead of 2. With creative use of shenanigans like the Familiar Folio or certain feats you have a CR1 kobold "Paladin" that is Adept 2/Warrior 1 riding around on a donkey rat that assumes a medium battle form thanks to one of the guy's feats being Boon Companion. He'll never do lots of damage but you've got 2 decent monsters for the price of one out of a single CR 1 encounter.

Depending on exactly how the mauler archetype works, I could get a familiar with more strength than its raging blood rager master. This depends a bit on whether you can use improved familiars for the archetypes (the mauler in particular seems to suggest improved familiars) and what exactly is the increase to strength for going small to medium.

Point is- you can get something rather beefy despite being a familiar.


Ms. Pleiades wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

in the altered timeline, the corporations would have become the greatest proponents of slavery, and expanded it to the entire United States and enshrined it to the current day. Furthermore, think of how they currently use social conservatism to further their agenda, promoting enslavement under the iron heel of government, all in the name of freedom.

Remind me; which party worked to end slavery? And which party currently had, up until the latest midterms, had both a governmental house and the presidency (with it still having the latter of these two)?

And how does a conservative reading--that is one which attempts to limit assumptions and caveats--of the US constitution take "All men were created equal" to suddenly include "Oh, except these following ethnic, social and religious groups"?

Lets not get into century old politics when politicians can flip flop in a week.

It is not like most people in the north were against slavery for humanitarian reasons. It was more of a 'they'll take our jobs' situations as seen with South American immigrants today.

Anyway, for how diabolism might affect things- I think there would be a great tendency towards highly complicated and extravagant ceremonies. I have felt for a while that all the virgin blood sacrifice and pentagram during the eclipse stuff devils use is more of a test. Hell is characterized as far to efficient to actually use that stuff at face value. No, you have to handle the logistics of a cult hiding its dark secrets while still fulfilling some arbitrary requirements. Handling that shows that you deserve more power and authority.

So how does this affect a devil respecting society? Power plays would come in the form of highly expensive and complicated social events where each major player tries to top (or sabotage) the other. Failure would result in a massive loss of face (as well as allies, customers, land, wealth, titles, etc.).


666bender wrote:

we start at lvl 11...

ah, missed that since it was in #2.

Well then... my defensive little tirade has been deflated.


Ah, but acrobatic step has to be from the animal companion, doesn't it? (hopefully so, for my argument's sake, since everything falls apart otherwise).

And it needs to take nimble moves first.

And neither of those feats are on the list that animal companions can take by default. So you need +3 Int before you can grab those feats.

So you have to wait until level 8 to pull that off. Cavaliers can take lunge as early as level 6 (due to their bonus feat). So, while it is just two levels, there is enough there that it can be relevant.


A nice reach build obviously builds off of the lance. Power attack and combat reflexes are the basic choices.

I like lunge on reach though. It helps to encourage more AoO's through proper positioning.

Normally, when you attack something, it ends up 10' away. It just needs a 5' step to reach you, and that means it gets to full attack.

With lunge, you can end your turn with the enemy 15' away. That means that a lot of enemies would have to move 10' to get to you. That means an AoO, and the enemy most likely loves their full attack. That is good both offensively and defensively.

It also means that you can full attack anything in a 45' wide circle prior to mounted skirmisher. Obviously this is less important for a mounted charger than most reach builds, but hey, it could be difficult terrain that prevents a charge. Altogether, lunge gives you enough options to consider picking it up.

Also, do not forget- the new fortuitous weapon property lets you get an iterative in on an AoO. For just a +1 to weapon price, you get the better part of a full attack. A must have for reach builds.

EDIT- oh, and since gnomes are popular for mounted chargers- having a racial SLA qualifies you for arcane strike (nice little damage boost). Riving strike is a feat that further builds off that, and causes anything you hit with arcane strike to take a -2 to saves against spells. Combine that with Cornugon Smash for a total of -4, and your Save or Die wizard will love you. With this, even if your damage sucks when not charging, you can be a massive help as a debuffer.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
You could do something like take levels in Monk, take 2 weapon fighting, and make your attack routine sword and unarmed strike. You could take 3 levels in Monk, Master of Many Styles, take Snake Style, Snake Fang, Monastic Legacy, and Combat Reflexes. Snake Fang is an attack of opportunity hair trigger: you get an unarmed AoO every time someone attacks you and misses! Since MOMS Monks don't get Flurry anyway, you can use armor and shield with no problem. Monastic Legacy will let you keep growing in your Monk Unarmed Damage as you take more levels in Fighter or something. If you were a Tengu, you'd be automatically proficient in Bastard Sword. You'd have a powerful combination of high AC, high damage and many attacks, some with a regular weapon, some with unarmed strikes. You would be doing blunt, piercing and slashing damage. And you would look more like Alistar.

Oh yes, I used to have similar ideas with the snake style thing. That was back when crane style was...well...good, and made a perfect style to pair up with snake style, since it could take out the higher BAB attacks that would obviously be hits. I vaguely remember hearing something about an errata though (I would love to see if anyone has a link to that discussion).

Even staying as a monk works strangely well. You can get armor and shields just by reducing ACP to 0 (since the nonproficiency penalties would also be 0). So that means most masterwork shields, most masterwork light armor, and even mithral medium armor if you grab the armor expert trait.

While 3/4 BAB and no bonus mechanics hurt, the fact that you likely get up to 4-6 attacks per round at your highest BAB helps (1 from your iteratives, 1 from crane style, 2 from snake style, maybe 2 from normal haste and ki methods).

I liked the idea of using your arm as the 'sword' though, since you could already stab with it due to snake style. Hard to enhance, but hey, snake style already requires unarmed attacks.


wraithstrike wrote:
The Storm of Swords wrote:

if that is the case, why not Swashbuckler? I mean with Precise Strike they are dealing level to damage with virtually every strike if they really want too. With that combo of using quickdraw Shields to stow the shield as a free action strike with Precise strike and then pull it back so when the opponent attacks back youhave the Ac bonus of the shield?

I know Cavalier has those as well I was just using it as an example.

Because with TWF you get the damage on two weapons, not just one and the precision damage of the swashbuckler will be blocked at times.

With a sword and board build ranger or slayers, using a quick draw shield if the opponent is good defensively against TWF because of DR then you stow away the shield, and two hand the one handed weapon. With the swashbuckler if your main thing is cut off you are not as effective for that fight, by a larger margin. Not to mention the weak fort and will save.

Swashbuckler is kind of the other way to go with sword and board- they get decent damage even if they aren't using TWF.

Precise strike is nice, but it actually seems like it is scaled to make up for the fact that you are 1 handing. Basically, comparing a 2 handed power attack from a Full BAB with decent strength against a swashbuckler with power attack/piranha strike, the numbers seem fairly similar. So basically, you are getting 2 handed like damage while getting the benefit of shields.

I know that most people on these boards are loath to even think about power attack with swashbucklers due to their love of the parry, but that hardly changes how the thing is set up. Anyway, I just see it as a chassis that salvages some nice looking but mechanically weak styles: 1 handed weapons, non TWF sword and board, and throwing builds.

Oh, and something to mention- the Daring Champion archetype for cavaliers trades in the mounted stuff for swashbuckler stuff. So you could always go with that.


N. Jolly wrote:
Sadly, you only get a boost from moving up from tiny to small, which is a little depressing. But a Homunculist with a Compsognathus form for their familiar still goes up to 14 (respectable), and with being able to add evos to it via both Evolved Familiar and the class itself (Evolved Evo netting it 2 sets of claws for arms and feet, class feature being used to get better evos), you can have a 5 natural attack monster even before you start piling on gold to turn it into a deity.

I am a bit confused. Was that cited reference due to the size changes from poly morph effects (since having alter self add +6 str when used by a halfling seems like a problem), or is that for monster creation in general.

I am mostly asking about this as a clarification for the mauler archetype. I was rather confused when it said that the +2 STR on the battle form "stacks with the normal Strength adjustments for increasing in size". Would a small familiar going medium get an extra +4 strength on top of that?

Oh, and Dustyboy, about the improved familiar issue: This line makes me think it might allow improved familiars, since normal animal based familiars would not usually find this relevant:

Familiar Folio wrote:
A mauler can't speak, even if it's a type of creature that normally could.

While ravens and such gain the ability to speak as familiars, they are not actually a type of creature that 'normally could' speak. Speech is usually an issue that comes up a lot more often with improved familiars. So there is at least room for argument.


Weirdo wrote:
Forlarren. They're usually a nymph/demon hybrid but could probably be adapted.

yeah, that. Use that, and add on some verdant/fey sorcerer stuff, and you can get and encounter that messes with the rest of the party's heads.


Eh, TWF can do great damage if you can get your full attacks in (fighters are good at getting large static bonuses to every hit, which is important for a TWF build). Now, obviously, that is the trouble, eh?

I know there is a great TWF fighter guide in the guide to guides, but I seem to remember seeing a message that it was in its owner's trash bin when I last visited it. So I will summarize.

There are two main ways to get a lot of full attacks for a TWF fighter- either finding a way to do a pseudo pounce, or finding a way to lock the opponent down.

The pseudo pounce is mostly found with the mobile fighter archetype and the dawnflower dervish (or dervish of the dawn as some website have to call it due to copyright issues). These both have an option at level 11 to trade the first attack in their iterative in for the ability to move and full attack in the same turn.

Another option for the mobiltiy side would be the Two Weapon Warrior archetype, which eventually gets the ability to do 2 attacks in a standard action (which puts it close enough to 2 handed weapons to do well). The Two Weapon warrior also eventually reduces that -2 penalty to attack.

The other option is to lock enemies down with the Stand Still feat. That feat lets you trade in your AoO for a maneuver to stop any movement that draws an AoO in adjacent squares. This becomes powerful when you have an ability that makes pretty much all movement draw AoO's. There is the Pin Down feat at level 11 available to all fighters, and there is the Brawler (fighter archetype) which has a similar ability at level 9.

With the lock down build, you would want to go with either a Lore Warden or a Brawler (again, archetype, not class). This is because the Lore Warden gets a large bonus to all maneuvers, and the brawler gets a bonus to stand still. This is important since stand still doesn't have all those 'improved' and 'greater' feats to boost it. Once you have the large bonus on, you can expect to lock down even big beefy monsters.

Of course, if you wish to avoid all these complicated builds and abilities, the final option to match up to 2 handed weapons is to grab a double weapon. This is likely the simplest way. Double weapons allow you to pick whether yo use them as a 1handed/light combo or as a 2 handed weapon. So just 2 hand when you have to move or charge, and TWF when you get full attacks. The only costs is probably from Exotic Weapon Proficiency (since most good double weapons are exotic; half orcs can grab them without spending a feat though, and they are a nice race anyway due to their sacred tattoo).


This whole sentence is a link for the Beast Rider archetype. (EDIT: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---ca valier-archetypes/beast-rider if the link is acting funny REEDIT:..even cutting and pasting is funny, adding a space in my actual post. Am I doing something wrong with all this?)

For the first 3 levels, you have to work with normal horse-ish options. At level 4, you get a small but rather nice selection of animal companions to choose from to serve as mounts (it includes dinosaurs, including ones that break later rules of the archetype, like T-rexes).

At level 7, you can pick most animal companions who are based off of BIG creatures from the bestiary (bears are used as an example in the archetype, since grizzlies are large sized normally). If it only gets to medium size through being an animal companion, then it can be increased to large with a modest boost to stat to go with the change. It has to be nonflying and 4 legged though (they did't want you to get too crazy for trading away 1 ability and heavy armor proficiency).


Kudaku wrote:
Just a Guess wrote:
(...)it might be best to treat it as a category of "swords made for thrusting."

I tend to treat most Pathfinder weapons like this. :)

If a character wants to reflavor his longsword as a katana or broad sword or whatever else tickles his fancy, I'm perfectly OK with that.

I still question why the katana is a separate thing from scimitars (Which work well to represent '1 and 1/2 handed curved swords').


Or this could randomly develop into that horrible dryad/demon hybrid that I forget the name of (god, I remember it was on the daily bestiary, but I cannot find it for the life of me; someone with stronger google fu, please help). A nice mix of dryad magic, tree power, and lamashtu mojo seems like it could do that.

And it thus bursts from the mother's tree belly, rips the dryad's throat out, and then scurries off and comes back later after it is fully grown and ready to cause trouble for the party.

Sorry, but remember, this is Lamashtu cult babies we are talking about. I fully expect them to start teething at the 2nd trimester. This is less about a polymorph/pregnancy debate fridge horror, this is more about good old fashioned chest burster horror when that god is involved.


Another thing I have been thinking about for the past couple of days is a blood rager who uses the new option to trade out their 1st level power for a familiar.

This is relevant due to the familiar archetypes released in the same book. The mauler archeype removes the familiar's ability to speak, and puts all those scaling increases to INT into STR instead. The familiar can also change into medium size (which gives you a +2 to STR plus 'normal stat increases due to size change'; a bit unclear about that, but it looks like +4 STR if you are going medium from small, and +8 if you start tiny). Combine all that with the fact that all familiars get BAB, saves, and 1/2 your HP (which is an actual number for a blood rager), along with scaling natural armor bonuses....

Now, that is all well and good, it can give you something that can fight in a pinch (a poor substitute for an animal companion). The next bit of discussion is more iffy- there is a bit of dispute about whether the archetypes can apply to improved familiars. But if it does... I like the idea of applying mauler to an earth elemental (16 STR, +7 natural armor, power attack and improved bull rush). Throw some armor onto that, and that thing could actually survive a bit. And since humanoid shaped elementals get simple weapon proficiency due to their subtype (whether you can get humanoid shape is iffy), then throw a nice club, morning star, or some kind of spear onto it for great damage.

As I've said, a lot of the later details are iffy... but if you can discuss it over with your GM, it could be an interesting tag team of blood rager and high strength familiar (an earth elemental might end up with more strength than you do while raging). And I would not say that such a familiar goes too far, since it never gets any more feats- it just has some nice base AC and STR, along with the ability to grab equipment. It never gets very more effective than another warm body that gets decent damage and a maneuver. Less threatening than a wand spamming imp honestly.


jacot wrote:
lemeres wrote:

Oh- this is something you have been missing- You cannot get an animal companion from divine bond, and gain the animal ally feat at the same time.

One of the prerequisites for animal ally is that you do not have an animal companion or mount.

So if you have divine bond with an animal, then it takes precedence.

I would aim for bribing the GM more better selection honestly (bears are honestly not that strong a choice; similar to horses actually). As I said, the divine bond feature gives you a 6 int creature you can pal around with. It also eventually becomes a celestial version at level 11.

And it doesn't help that a bear starts off as a small creature then becomes medium at lvl 4 so unless you area halfling or a gnome it couldn't be a mount anyway

yeah...that is one of the advantages of beast rider cavaliers- they get the option to just scale up the small ones like that up to large.


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chbgraphicarts wrote:
Add to it that the Rapier is associated with the French, who're just about the flimsiest and "unmanly" culture to ever walk the face of the earth, and it becomes obvious that the Rapier would get the "baby-sword" treatment, especially versus things like a Greatsword.

Is that so much the French or the French nobility? I mean, the French kings were fairly famous for being overly extravagant (to the point that they were famously executed).

All I am saying is that the French continually picked fights with England and Germany over centuries, and fairly much kept the status quo. They were in a century of conflict with England, and they had one of the more famous conquerors in the world (although he got an odd reputation for being small and weak due to the fact that he always stood next to guards that were more akin to brick walls).


I am mostly just spitballing as a general discussion on building melee types for this campaign (this might be more useful to me in future than LazGrizzle), but since I would imagine constructs and robots show up a lot, would DR and hardness ignoring options be powerful?

Three immediately come to mind: the martial artist monk, the steelbreaker brawler, and the irorian paladin.

The monk and brawler are fairly straight forward- they ignore DR and hardness if you pass a check. Both could work well with quarterstaff based flurries (hey, getting 2 handed power attack is rather nice, no?). Thematically, I kind of like the idea of using a lead pipe for your quarterstaff, since it can be salvaged from the ruins you find, and it has a nice 'dirty' and 'makeshift' feel that works well with 'savage lands stumbling on grand technology'.

The irorian paladin gets a bit of a bad rap, since it is a monk-ish paladin but doesn't get anything like flurry or TWF to compliment its unarmed attacks. But if you ignore that slight focus, then you have an archetype that is fairly good trade for smite in more neutral campaigns (+1-+7 bonus to attack, damage, and AC against a target, but it can be any creature and you can spend ki to ignore DR and hardness). The archetype also has a light armor focus, but that is made up by the fact that you get your CHA to AC. The fact that it also keeps lay on hands for nice tankiness is not bad.


I would say that the American Revolution had a lot of advantages absent in this case.

The Americas were a vast spread of land that acted as the raw material producer in that imperial relationship. The revolutionaries were also defending their home turf, and the royal armies had to go through a huge trip across the ocean in order to send supplies and troops. The Americas also had an advantage in the fact that Britain had enemies- the French were willing to lend expertise and supplies.

In this case, there is no geographical advantage, since there is no land currently under half elf control (unless this setting just has that). So getting a foothold would be the first priority.

Without a political mess like in Kingmaker, where there is a large amount of good land that is left unclaimed by a large power due to fear of retaliation against expansion, the easiest way to get land is to ally yourself with a larger power. For instance, providing aid in some plan for conquest by a friendly party (lets say an elf kingdom with big plans). Then you might be able to get some degree of captured land as part of the deal. Of course, if that does happen, it is likely because the larger power decided to use you as a buffer nation against the people you took land from (and other enterprising neighbors).

Overall, when you start from nothing, you have to think in the short term just to have ANYTHING to use for the longterm. So lie, cheat, and steal until you have enough to go legit. That is how the Italian mafia went.


Nearyn wrote:

Paladins are notoriously bad rulers. Their code of conduct and the standards they hold themselves to, are qualities completely unsuited to rulership of anything other than a shiny lollipop-kingdom, where nothing ever goes wrong and nobody is trying anything nefarious.

If you really want it to, any class can become a ruler, since in most cases, a good ruler is defined by his decision-making, not his personal capabilities.

But when that is said and done, if you want something with mechanics that ties into ruling, I'd suggest Bard or a Cavalier.

-Nearyn

I will second this, if only on the idea that you might not face too many evil opponents. War is based off of conflicts of interest and loyalties lying on different sides. Most people tend to just be neutral sorts caught up in politics far larger than they are.

And since you are trying to build a racial nation when that race has no traditional land (which could be expanded upon through light skirmishes, negotiation, and alliances), then you are going to have to go on quite a bit of conquest, which might involve a lot of neutral opponents.

Overall, cavalier has a similar taste to paladin, but it is much, much more flexible morally. As people have suggested, daring champion can be nice, mostly because it can do sword and board without trading damage or a ton of feats (so you can get great AC). Regular cavalier with maybe beast rider archetype to get something nice and toothy can be good too, since it can serve as a flank buddy when charging is not an option.


Dustyboy wrote:
I was under the impression that since improved familiars do not gain speak with animals, they do not qualify for familiar archetypes, has anyone stated otherwise?

Damn, really...well, there goes Rocky. He could have been a contender (with brassknuckles).

I suppose I could understand why. The archetypes seem to be there to add a bit of use and flavor to the otherwise 'meh' animals. Improved familiars usually have enough of a shtick that they can serve a similar function without the boost.

Plus, I was basically making a cohort with all my silliness. Medium sized, intelligent, able to use all sorts of equipment...

Still, I am going to hope that they can.


I know that rangers had an archetype, called Sable Company Marines (or whatever it got renamed on D20pfsrd due to copyright) that let them grab hippogriffs (eagle/horse things like griffons; dumb as a brick, but hey, flying mount).

The PFS version of the archetype is from inner sea combat and it adds (and kind of forces you to take) the feats Protoman mentioned as combat style feats (not too bad since a lot of mounted combat is lance based, and that only needs a couple feats). It makes it so that your effective druid level is -1 instead of -3, so you might be able to skip boon companion.

It takes until level 8 (7 with boon companion) to get the thing strong enough to fly with you on it though. Still, it drops a big birdy monster on your lap at level 2. Which can be nice. Its speed isn't even bad, so it could work as a regular grounded mount until you get it up to level.


Just remember, secondary natural attacks only deal 1/2 strength and power attack damage, which is the majority of the bonuses that a barbarian (and bloodrager, as far know) has.


For someone that can threaten the PC's covertly, a 'rules of the concrete jungle' style feral hunter might be interesting.

Mostly, I like the possibility of wildshape for covert operations (a wild minded hunter seems more likely to work with a big city gang than a druid). Who suspects the rats (when not in swarms)? Who can protect themselves from assassins the flit in as bluejays, and that then grow a super beefy arm holding a dagger?

Being the literal fly on the wall works great for information gathering, and I can see such a person being valuable for a blackmail operation. At least having such a person as a distant contact and occasional contractor has its value. I am just suggesting this as a useful chess piece to use in any attempts to threaten and control the PC's.


Oh, this can get interesting with all the new archetypes.

And since the familiar folio gave sorcerers and bloodragers the option to trade out their first bloodline power for a familiar, you can get a lot of new options.

With a bloodrager and mauler archetype, it is actually possible to get a familiar that is fit for battle. Maybe a nice earth elemental base since it has 16 base str and a few good melee feats? Throw some armor on there and it gets downright beefy.

One issue I have that touches on the wand issue- can elementals take humanoid shapes? The elemental subtype goes on about how they gain simple weapon proficiency if they are human-like. Can they have hands, or is that just for the bigger nonplayer controlled elementals? Obviously this issue involves wand use and weapon use, and it can vastly expand your options depending on the result.


ShroudedInLight wrote:
Gavmania wrote:

There is a way to get DEX to hit and to damage with TWF, but not with a dasgger.

Use Sawtooth Sabre.

Used TWF, these count as light weapons for Finesse, so they gain DEX-to Hit, yet remain one handed slashing weapons so are eligible for Slashing Grace and get DEX to Damage.

SEE!

It doesn't even accomplish what they wanted to do, why hurt us Dagger bros?

Which requires an extra feat to bring online, and requires you to specialize in a particular, peculiar type of weapon.

Daggers show up in AP loot drops. sawtooth sabers probably do not (unless it is an AP involving red mantis assassins; not sure if there is one).

There is always a price. The designers wanted to put a heavy one of dex to damage TWF.


DominusMegadeus wrote:

In other words, you can use DEX for a non-magical battleaxe but not a non-magical dagger.

This is why people say there should just be "improved weapon finesse" or even letting the DEX/STR to damage be a choice you can make at any time. It's always gotta be needlessly restrictive for some reason.

Well, the complication seems to be entirely intentional on the part of the designers. The main feat based methods of getting dex to damage, dervish dance, fencing grace, and slashing grace, are all for 1 handed weapons.

Since 1 handed weapons usually cannot be dual wielded without a lot of pain (and TWF is one of the main users of dex builds), this seems to indicate that they do not want you to easily access dex to damage with TWF.

While you might disagree with that design decision, I will not say that the method is necessarily bad.


Plus earth elementals come with power attack and improved bullrush as feats

Oh, and apparently there are special familiar options from the familiar folio, and one of them has witches giving a special ability to their familiar in return for delaying their patron spells for 1 level. The relevant bit here is that a witch with the strength patron has a familiar that can swap its strength and intelligence score for int/day that lasts for 1/2 your witch level. So if there are any familiars with 17+ int...(I've already found that the faerie dragon matches earth elemental in that case)

Also, just a not- just found out that sorcerers and blood ragers can trade out their first level power for a familiar. And I remember that humanoid-shaped elementals gain simple weapon proficiency. Let them take on the medium sized battle form from mauler, throw some armor (0 ACP stuff since it lacks armor proficiency) and a nice spear, give it your full BAB and 1/2 a blood rager's HP (not as great as a barbarian with eldritch heritage, but still vaguely acceptable) and you suddenly have a half decent melee buddy. The +7 base natural armor plus the familiar scaling NA bonus helps keep it tanky enough that its HP isn't too much of a problem.

EDIT-ahah! found something for the strength patron witch thing above. The sage archetype for familiars makes the familiar's INT equal 5+level. So starting at around level 11 or so, it has the best strength (given the fact that the witch likely has more than +5 int mod at that point, and the stat switch lasts for 5 rounds or more, yeah, it is enough to last most fights in a day).


Quote:
Reach Weapons: A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

Nokay.

It doubles your natural reach. Lunge is not a part of that.


Mackenzie Kavanaugh wrote:

There's a lot of definite problems with Exotic Weapon Proficiency, but some of them are especially mind-boggling. Consider the (Aldori) Dueling Sword, which requires EWP + Weapon Focus + Slashing Grace to use as a Swashbuckler... the exact same feats which would allow you to use a Katana or Bastard Sword, both of which are mechanically better in every way than a Dueling Sword. Indeed, for a Swashbuckler, a Dueling Sword functions exactly the same as a Longsword, but requires an Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat tax. Therefore the only reason to go with the Dueling Sword is because of feats made specifically for the Dueling Sword... for which EWP is once again an unnecessary feat tax.

The class really needs an archetype like Whirling Dervish for players interested in playing a Swashbuckler style Aldori Swordlord, because right now, even humans can't apply Dex to hit with a dueling sword until level 3, which is the soonest they can purchase Slashing Grace. (Swashbuckler Finesse counts as Weapon Finesse, but isn't the same and doesn't allow a Dueling Sword to gain Dex to damage without Slashing Grace, invalidating the one special ability Dueling Swords have when it comes to Swashbucklers.)

Eh, dueling swords aren't really good for swashbuckler slashing grace.

They are for nonswashbuckler slashing grace. Because they can be finessed without the special rules added by swashbuckler (which is needed for most other 1 handed weapons, since you could not get dex to hit otherwise).

So giving you access to that is (somewhat) worth EWP for a fighter.


rungok wrote:
I also thought that the Tetsubo was a stupid translation. If you compare the silhouette of the Tetsubo and a greatclub, they're practically identical. Additionally they are used in the same manner. I personally just nix the Tetsubo on the gear list and have it be a 'retexture' of the greatclub.

I honestly never got why we needed katana as a separate thing. Why couldn't scimitars stand in for all 1 hand-able curved swords?

Not hating on katana, just using it as one of the more obvious examples of bloat with the weapons tables. I am in favor of just getting a few good general categories (1handed axe, 2 handed axe, 1 handed straight sword, 2 handed straight sword, etc). that represent a much wider variety of weapons.


Well, there is some argument that a ton of exotic weapons are mechanically complicated, and would need special training, no matter the culture. Things like flying blades or garrotes.

Most of the weapons seem to be fairly straight forwards, and many have crosscultural couterparts (jian for longswords; glaives; everyone has daggers, etc). Ignoring a few exceptions (the ton of polearms, which are rather european in nature, due to the improved ironworking technology allowing for experimentation), there are usually not too many

And even katana can be wielded with the same ease as longswords. They can be used as 2 handed martial weapons. Given that they rely so much on strength, that would be the usual use. As far as I know, most katana made prior to the long period of peace (where people could wear crappy swords for show and cutting down commoners) would be 2 handed.

Even the most famous user of japanese TWF, Miyamoto Mushashi, used 2 handed most of his career, and he came up with the TWF afterwards. Wielding katana 1 handed is a trick that is hardly in line with their intended usage.


Undone wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Unless you use lunge...then feel free to attack first, since the enemy is left 15' away after your attack. That feat guarantees at least 1 AoO for a large swath of opponents.
While a great idea (I use it often) I believe lunge gives you 20 foot while you have a reach weapon since reach weapons double your 10 foot reach.

Not really, no. Lunge gives you a specific increase to the area your attack can reach to, and reach weapons do not explicitly state that they double your reach (that is the practical way they work given size, but it doesn't come out and say it, as such it is jsut that each size has a different effect with a reach weapon)

If I am wrong, then I would love for you to show me where, since that view is extremely tempting (since it means I can full attack anything in a 55' wide circle, instead of a 45' wide circle).

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