leandro redondo, your classification system is interesting, but it's flawed for the Pathfinder setting. Iomede is of a greater power gp than the Four Horsemen, but they are far more multiversal powers than she is. She's not even widely known across Golarion.
That only means that she has much more influence here than they have, so probably she is a local goddess or a multiversal goddess on the wane. No body says that local gods can't expand beyond their lands, usually when a certain culture expands too. Iomede is actively worshiped here, but probably the four horsemen keep just a few cults, rather more interested in the power of Daemons servants and allies than anything else. They can be catalogued as multiversal demigods ( more powerful here and there, with a rise in status in some worlds) and she could be a local goddess of higher status, but only in some worlds ( as golarion). Making a cheap comparison, you could say the same to a big company( say a diamond mining company), but quite local, and a world widespread one with just a few business in the same place( say a newspaper publisher). This local company can have obscene profits with some quiet an discreet kinds of bussines, while the other one works in another line of bussiness, maybe even with less profits on the whole.
Simple: I allowed the magic item middle-man. Then I roll in the cities the magic items that appear for salling ( at random): they can rent the services of finder agents ( explaining in some way why are so costly to buy those objects) in many cities, so when the one they want appear, they can buy it. Many of them are quite usual, but the rarest of them they have to find them in other ways ( treasures)or make'em. I don't like the idea of the magic mall, it's cheap and cheesy, with no glamour in it whatsoever, so no magic shops, just collectors and middlemen
When my players are... I no longer feel bad for DMs who hate on whiny players, also i have results about the entire party of wizards thing
In my opinion, you are a little bit overreacting. Don't worry, It happens a lot with newbies, and it's nothing to be ashamed ( many people gets angry when they are ashamed, cause no one likes to be ashamed and being critisized): for me , your problem was that You were playing as DM as you were playing as a Pc, when the goal of Dming it's a completely diferent one. Usually, pcs play to win, but DM should play for the play AND the audience, so the terms win or lose are of a secondary importance.
They weren't a group prepared to fight, so? when something like that happens, and happens a lot, what you should clearly impress into their minds it's that they must play to their strengths, not their weakness. You said you helped them building their characters, because none of them were very used to pathfinder, so you should have made it very clear and provide with the resources: instead of fighting , they could have sneak out of the scene via invisibility or flying. Or use some silent images to deceive them with false walls and the like. They´ll need to be extra resourceful in the future, that's all.
I'm not a fan of DM-omming pcs, but not of being hostile to them, either: given time, they usually adapt quite well to a unusual situation and thrive. Just try not to shove them too hard into your ways or they will be resentful to you. Give them some "training wheel" sessions until they get used to the new system and to their comrades, adjust some of their spells, give them some wands or allow'em feats like the old reservoir feats of 3.5 to avoid the "quickly depleted and useless" situation and your next day should go smoothier. But don't rob them the control by impossing something they don't want at all, like a npc tank fighter ( a Deus ex machine solution type than would make'em feel they don't deserve any merits in the outcome of the adventure) And be patient! after all you are learning, too, to be a DM.
Maybe, like the wall of force spell, forcecage needs to be unbroken to be formed. This reflex save means you could put your arm, a weapon or whatever while it's forming and partially or completely prevent it from coalesce. Obviously, it would mean that the force cage it's destroyed ( again, partially at least), but it's a solution to the pesky question on extra movement actions ( even when you are out of them) to avoid it.
It depends on how you imagine the spells works. Personally, I think the spell wording means that the sparking part doesn't depends on whether you are or not invisible, that is, It sheds some sort of light on their own (albeit minimal, but light nonetheless), not mere reflections of the surrounding light. That's why it imparts penalties to stealth checks, no matter lightning ( even being in complete darkness)
I see people has many problems with what I call the "upper top reference limit" problem, that is, there has to be something that, no matter how powerful you are, it cannot be defeated or ignored. It's deeply ingrained in occidental culture, permeated as it is by our main religions traditions of an all-powerful God. It's fine, but this is just a game, not a religious campaign. "Gods" can be whatever we want them to be. With that in mind, may I suggest some ways to deal with the problem without creating any problem with your subconcious?
There would be a fourth kind, individuals born or gifted with a spark of divine essence, basically mortals with a touch of divinity imbued. Think of special Solars, Pit fiends, Draconals, mortal heroes... Individuals on their path to Ascension or boosted by gods to better serve them, with just the faintiest hint of their Glory to keep them apart from the average mass of their kin.
This is how I managed to solve the conflicting ideas and sensibilities of my player's group, and worked out surprisingly well.
being honest, It's quite irritating reading some people demanding and forcing other people not to play whatever they wanna play. They even claim they are bad RPs 'cause they don't wanna give up they favorite characters at some artificial point, and accusing them of weak-minded powermongerism and.... well, It seems of everything possible. How they dare to deride someone for not to change their stuff, when they won't dare to change their own campaign level reference? Do you really think that epic levels are just being the alpha male of a small country? That would be ridiculous. Campaigns need to grow up in scope as much as in deepness, renovating they challenges or otherwise It's just a jail for everyone's imagination. Planes are just one posible way to play in the major leagues without upsetting your homeworld, as are other worlds or even deep space ( those charming lovecraft settings of deep darkness full of dark gods and cruel abominations , mmmm). Someone told that everybody would succumb to dread and angst just of knowing of such powerful people roams free in the world, loosing their will to be an adventurer and yadda yadda... Well, It seems logical to me that people tend to work with those of comparatively equal power ( what's the point in fighting a puny 1st level kobold, being you of 16th level? It's just a waste of time, and probably your true enemies would be 16th or so, too): being epic, you just move to a diferent arena, and left many things behind.
Many people claims that epic level rules were broken, and just too improvised to be of any use past a certain point: well, that's why you need a solid new set of rules, well balanced and fitting for the system. Epic monster manual are handy as well, as a way to provide for help for the always-too-busy master, and in many cases as a inspirational source too ( my! Asuras and rakshasas have became an axis for my campaign since I fell in love with the Idea behind the topic).
On the other hand, I'm not sure mythic campaign tiers will be a solid adition to rules. It seems to me like reward system running in parallel to regular one, making the diference between regular characters and "mythic" ones a quite deep chasm: if you play a 2nd mythic level bard and wins more opportunities than a plain second level old bard, everybody would take mythic, needing a complete review of the sistem just to fit them in.
An afterthought: I don't know why people are so fixed on the "epic = godskiller" idea. Gods are what DM want to make them. He/she decides if gods are fair game or not. In Chinese mythology, gods can and actually die quite regularly, and norse mythos aren't so contrary on the idea. You may actually mix invulnerable gods and "lesser" other quite-not-inmortals ( local gods, maybe, depending on few worshippers to mantain their status)
But then I'd be just making them a slightly weak full caster... Warlock is more like a blaster with a bunch of utility
I suggested using words of power because you can alter them in many ways on the fly, transforming their blast in the old ways of the blast shape and eldritch essence invocations without using any kind of feat.Besides, the elemental effect word are quite blastersome. Take as an example electricity words: you will shoot rays causing 1d4/level up to 5th, then you'll change next word and start to inflict 1d6/level up to 10th, then you'll change to next word and inflict 1d8/level (maximum 15d8 to one target + 1/2 that damage to any other targets included in the effect)... on a burst-, line-, cone-, even barrierlike-, shape, whatever suits you at the moment, again and again and again...
If you are looking for something more physical, try this: substitute DR for a slightly modified Arcane strike (allowing them to use powerword caster level as caster level equivalent) as a class feature, and do the same with heavy armor and arcane shield
Instead using the old 3.5 invocations, you could use some of the words of power from Ultimate magic. I don't know, perhaps when they get another invocation, they can choose from a list of words, or try to make another word combining the ones already in existance ( as per usual rules, in a very personal combination that they could name after themselves, like Marmoretto's Grave Breath instead the plain Selected Ice Blast Life Leech ). Be picky with the effect word types you allow them to choose, 'cause they could cast'em at will, and don't allow them to spontaneously mix effect words ( the only combos of effect words, again, would be when they get a new invocation). Lose the arcane blast, and give them progresively more powerful attack words instead ( elemental words are a perfect solution).
I've played epic campaign for 10 or more years, and loved every minute of them, but at the end, I found it was a tad bit like the Cold War era's arms race. Classes' balance started to spin off out of control, because the system was only oriented to create simple projections of their initial bare mechanics without minding their interclass balance: that made'em unique, of course, and most memorable, but made very dificult to make up a fair and clear challenge to everyone. So I came with the Idea of , insted making every class scalate , put a few common paths with very similar basics (2/3 bab, for example, for everyone) but with a new array of posibilities for everyone to explore. New options to explore outside your class of choice, not always combat oriented ( for instance, there was your typical lonely ranger who developed a very promising career as singer in faeries court when he started developing something like bard's music, enraging the woods's denizens against civilization's defiling of nature and so on). I was only able to put four of them together ( I 'm a bit lazy, sorry) using bits from other classes, but they don't really need to be like this. Let's say that'd be in the Pf spirits if you made your paths with some cool, original and fixed array of characteristics ( I dunno, maybe something thematics oriented, like elemental themes, ) and like oracles and witches do, a body of feats-powers-whatever to choose outside base mechanics (for instance, some of the bards songs in the aforementioned example).
Possesing creatures like Gho'auld from the Stargate series, so you can have your favourite evil mastermind Change bodies and be always be a fresh and surprising challenge. Psionics would be handy, of couse, or innate magicks, for such bodyswitching beings
That said, I'm kind of thinking that "I hope the DM allows my trick for bypassing the 5' range limitation on holly berries and I assume that AM fails half his saves because otherwise it isn't fair" is... well, you're a druid 20. Surely you're the last person who should be talking about things being unjust!
Just a few clarifications maybe in order to explain my position on this topic, the necessity of DM's Good will to allow my "little trick", or the necessity to make a specificaly made character-contraption to win this little bet of ours.Holly Berry Bombs: You turn as many as eight holly berries into special bombs. The holly berries are usually placed by hand, since they are too light to make effective thrown weapons (they can be tossed only 5 feet). If you are within 200 feet and speak a word of command, each berry instantly bursts into flame, causing 1d8 points of fire damage + 1 point per caster level to every creature in a 5-foot-radius burst and igniting any combustible materials within 5 feet. A creature in the area that makes a successful Reflex saving throw takes only half damage.
As You see, there's no ironcast 5' range limitation implied´: you can put them wherever you like, but you can't toss them further than 5' because they are too light. Removing that condition ( adding some weight to their container) , in my humble opinion, doesn't call for a ground-breaking, soft-hearted DM's pronouncement, , just some common sense ( and, yes, I'm assuming common sense is somehow involved in a live, person-to-person, emulation of reality, but maybe I'm wrong).
Another of my seemingly wild guesses: that I have a fighting chance. Assuming that my opponent can be affected by my spells at least half of the times ( maybe a little more, maybe a little less, depending how the dice roll, of course) I firmly believe it's a good definition of it. Otherwhise, why bother? You can just rule out that your opponent wins, that you're dead, and so you can now join the always-winning team and play a new copy of your RAGELANCEPOUNCE, as all of your friends, to fight RAGELANCEPOUNCEs as you ( the only worthy opponents around, as it seems).
I didn't wish for victory, I wished to do infinite damage which wins the contest but likely doesn't kill AM BARBARIAN because I didn't specify where the damage happens. But killing AM BARBARIAN isn't the point of the thread.
Yes, it is. Destroy him or any other RAGELANCEPOUNCE like him, dealing enough damage to blow him to pieces in just one round before he makes his fancy combo.
Of course. Maybe a nice touch with the elemental spell feat would made thinks a little more appealling, don't you think? changing to two or three completely diferent kind of energies?And I'm supposing this caster is as good at increasing DCs as the AM barbarian is at Ref saves ( otherwise, I'm certainly fighting my betters, and it would be totally unjust, don't you think?), so he would fail half of his throws. A quarter of 2400 are 600, more than enough to char batty bat ( unless he, of course, also has fire/cold/electricity/acid resistance, just in case), and our barbarian friend
Well, have you ever heard of the Fire Seeds mini-nuke? Fire seeds it one of those few spells that you can actually add up without limit, because it last a lot ( so you can carry a lot of them precasted, maybe within a few sacks with stones to add just enough weigth to be tossed beyond those sad 5 feet the spell says are holly berries reach), target is the bunch of berries ( a very cheap component) and no spell turning can affect them, 'cause they are area -albeit a small one, 5 feet radius- spells.
Unfortunately, you have to sleep, my dear EMO BARBARIAN. Otherwise, negative energy plane also its also a nice place anytime of the year
The plane hasn't been destroyed, it still exist, so why you should be ejected from it? you are not different from any of the plane features ( rocks, falls, bushes...), unless you especifically rule otherwise.
Well, maybe it's just a disturbing idea, but, when you sunder this damned demiplane, where would you go? there's no magic directly on you,holding you in-place but the gate opening magic it's been suppressed. Why should anyone rule that you're logically expelled into your own plane? and how do you supress a plane and all its contents? Turning it into a non-dimensional space, with all the stuff inside it ( i.e turning everything into a point into a larger plane), like trees, air or dust? Then our beloved barbarian would be still trapped inside when the effect passes
Basically, anything that does nothing but give you a plain pluss. Magic items have to be, at least, a little bit amazing, not just another way to cast an unknown spell ( that's what scrolls are for), or just boost what you can already do ( the annoying evergrowing DC Vs. ST, At Vs Ac - theme). Ok, you must have those infamous six , but they are just the magical version of our quotidiane gadgets, and everybody will agree that without some cool stuff in it, a mobile can be very boring and no one would look twice to some plain trainers..
Lets take for granted some assumptions:
B) you are currently travelling, in the open most of the time, so it's difficult to hide
c)The dragon is an ancient red one( implying fire breathing and fire inmunity, powerful blindsense and smoke sight, amazing flying rate but pityful maneuverability, gargantuan or colossal size, high AC and SR, and cold vulnerability), and a powerful sorcerer ( so It can cast Limited Wish spontaneusly many times)
d) It has some method to keep an eye permanently on you, probably using magic.
e) It has the means to kill one or more of you in a single round with just an action ( fire breath, powerful physical attacks...), so you can't retaliate effectively after that.
f) you have enough firepower to inflict it some serious damage ( you can see some ideas above) so you can make it rethinking attack you so recklessly.
Well, first of all, you must try some methods to compensate your vulnerabilities and its strengths, so you have time to put a decent fight ( or run). I'll try to use only low level effects so you can save the big ones
1) Red dragon's breath if a fiery one, so wind wall and control winds can take care of it, if wisely used.
2)A cheap and secure acommodation ( even from most of divinations)for camping is the rope trick spell: put some around the fire camp, and keep them apart enough to avoid a single dispel magic effect to destroy them all. keep some of them empty ( may be one or two). Keep people changing from one to another regularly to avoid pinpointing by divination magic ( most of them requires to select one person to spy on, and unless it teleports inmediatly after the divination, it risks losing the intel on you). Most divinations don't even work across the interdimensional interface, so it have to compensate this deficiency with expensive spells ( i.e limited wish would be de obvious solution). Of course, the dragon can still attack your camp, but you have already bought some time to make up your options
3)If you have someone specialised in fighting dragons, make sure he can achieve all of his potential: summon some petty birds to help him by using the aid other option ( enough of them, paying a +2 attack bonus, can override the High AC of dragons), and make sure he can be adecuately protected and healed ( sacred bond spell is good on this)
4)keep some guardians around you, at a distance, So you can get some forewarning of its arrival. If you get some flying beings ( usually more birds) with enough perception and/or the scent quality to compensate the dragon's invisibility, you can link them with you cleric with a status spell no matter how far they are. Three or four friendly/charmed/trained eagles would do.
5)Quench spell is a must-have in this case: A third level spell with No ST, no SR, same range of damage as fireballs, and with a huge area that allow to put out fires at the same time that you are hurting the dragon.
]I'm not sure where this falls in the Dragonlance timeline, but at different points there were no clerics and no divine magic whatsoever. Later I think there were evil clerics only for a while, then finally good clerics. There are no friendly priest to go pay for a resurrection. Once they return, all clerics in the game world are low level with evil ones being slightly ahead on the level curve. This may take place after all of that so that this is not an issue, not sure.[/QUOTE wrote:
]We encountered the dragon's "rider" and slew him in one on four combat. Now the dragon wants revenge for his (master's?) death.[/QUOTE wrote:
Why is the ruler of half world trying to deep fry a bunch of punny pcs, if he can reencarnate his rider whenever he likes with his unlimited resources? is it on purpouse, or just a hole in the plot? think on it. Or you just should resurrect him and hold him hostage against the dragon, until you fin a suitable solution.
[quote=]Tonight he ambushed us on the open plain, using invisibility, Flyby Attack, and his breath weapon to put half the party in the hurt locker before we could even respond. Luckily, we all passed our saves and we weren't killed outright. Furthermore, the monk and and eldritch knight had evasion (the latter from a ring) and took no damage. The dragon took his time mauling us with Greater Vital Strike/Power Attack melee attacks.
My spells bounce off this guy like I'm shooting spit balls. We've only been able to hit him with the ranger's favored enemy (dragon) dragonbane bow on a natural 20
Let's see... Invisibility gives you +20 stealth check bonus , but it's a -12 for being gargantuan ( you can't be very silent and stealthy when you are ten stories tall and you are moving , at least, four times faster than a regular horse). Your ranger is adept at fighting dragons, so I think he probably has maxed her preferred enemy bonus vs this kind of fiend, so it should be another, let's say, +6+ 2 ( from wisdom bonus). Then it's just a matter of ranks in stealth on both sides. Asuming your ranger has 10 ranks, and the dragon 20-25, it's a check vs 10-15... but you're failing time after time the check. It sounds kinda foul play, doesn't it? how does a dragon get to be so good at ambushing?
We shouldn't forget that, in a savage fantasy world, with so many creatures, the shape is an important matter when you're developing your own racial style. Dragons surely would develop a very agresive and hard stile, with little or no regard on defensive movements ( huge natural AC), but with some serious use for their wings and tails. Mariliths have 8 arms, a long, serpentine body: surely theirs would be an undulating, deceptive, flanking style, more aboundant in parrying and then making one final blow ( or four) than just showering you with blows and letting you land your three or four supermaximized blows vs their poor AC.
maybe is just a bit dificult, with all the legal problems, but I really liked the three core classes that appeared in the "book of nine swords". Fighters with combat powers not directly related to magic, with interesting effects in the usually mechanic fight, or even out of the battlefield ( the shadow hand school vas very useful to thieves). May be it can be called "martial artists", or some other fancy name, and made diferent from the monk in some other way, allowing them to acess to those roles the figter group has avery dificult time to acces ( healers, providers... that kind of things).
Some of this can be achieved just by thinking outside the proverbial box. For instance, between wall of stone and stone shape, a 10th level sorcerer could raise himself a fort in days, and repair it in the midst of a siege too.
hey!!! I didn't say they were completely useless. Just that they're more dangerous than helpful. Even for their own companions, and they are suposedly their mystical providers of tricks and comodities. I've been playing as DM a magocracy for nearly 20 years ( where only arcane magic was allowed), and I've played more than one wizard -"out of the box" ideas (i.e Energy Transformation Field, from 3.5 WoTC spell compendium, plus a witch providing 1 heal, 1 remove curse,1 regenerate, 1 restoration... plus any witch casting hexes to charge it as needed, and the city can provide tho their citizens and adventurers a nice health-care facility for the ages to come. Now, you don't have to have allways a temple of powerful holy men in your pc home town, just some old ruins from beyond memory and and creepy old low-level witch, for example. The spell was thougth as a trap to deny magic-users their powers and blast them with some nasty spell, although). Spells like that are my favourites, but a +5 to something is just boring. And wizards, and sorcerer have many more spells from the later class, I'm afraid. A few more of this useful spells it's what I would like. You don't have to memorize them every day, but that's the beauty of classes like wizards, witches and clerics, that you can afford to know a few non-kaboom spells.Sorry for the misunderstanding.
By the way, I wish good luck to your sorcerer living in this one-story fortress( engineering checks would be a terror with such a hurry), without glasses, decent doors or porticulis, and reparing 2-inches thick outer walls in the middle of the siege ( 55 square feet of them at a time, I mean). I would advice her to forget her 4th and 5th spells for good if it ever came at that point.
Front the point of view of someone playing an epic warlock, I can assure you I was not undepowered in anyway at all. As a matter of fact, I was perhaps the mass destroyer of the group, and had my fair share in many other roles ( mine is a group where we believe that we have to be able to cope with as many roles as posible, just to be safe). Even I WAS de main healer!!! ( thanks to an epic feat for warlocks, Shadowmaster, that allows you to cast Shades at will, and so, summon as many hollyphants - a summonable monster with 1 heal/day- as you wish: what a shame that this same power made me inmune to the shade power -and thus the healing, sigh-).
I've always very partial to the faery. One of my favourites, from the old epic handbook was the leshay, almost eternal people with a lot of power and a good-and-decent sad history behind.
Obviously, we're used to play epic campaigns
For me, there's enough battle spells around to keep all the spellcasters killing themselves for years without getting bored. My! when a high level druid can nuke a town with just one mid-level spell ( control winds, at higher levels, is really a "cold nuke", if used wisely) you just don't need seeing anything else.
I've been playing epic campaigns for 12 years as a Dm , and, beside the dauntingly amount of math involved in a npc building, and how few really history-building monsters ( no just bashers or tanks, but actual society-shaking able moonsters), my worst nigtmare has always been the same: how the epic level sector of society impacts on the rest of it. Epic characters who could burn a city to the ground all by themselves? fine. Think of them as actual nukes or devastating natural disasters and the ways we treat with them ( mutually-assured-destruction politic among equals, specialized army corps, etc..). Some epic character could charm half a royal court in a wink and take control of the kingdom? fine too, that's why maybe there is a 10th level aristocrats as king of the country, and may be is why a wiser 10th level king seeks loyal 28th level wizards and warriors, priests and thiefs as ministers and counselors. But all of this kind of stuff has always been disdained on nearly every book i've read; therefore , when a master wants to jump to a smoothly-ingrained epic level campaign, he finds he has to improvise a lot of campaign building rules and situations and practically rewrite everything he has worked in his campaign, trying to make this new pcs and npc guys seem old news in the kingdom. And that's absurd. Too many people prefer to return to a lower profile than spend days and days reshaping their worlds to this extent