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11,200 posts (11,250 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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Or save the heroine to extort a reward out of her [be that reward monetary, political or... carnal.]

DrDeth wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:

Um... spell point is very commonly used..

It usually goes by its other name... mana

In Games. But in Novels? Not much. I have never heard any protagonist say anything like "I only have 6 points of mana left". It's usually "I was tired".

In novels, "mana" is usually tied to physical or metal energy- it makes for a better story.

It's actually really common in Xianxia [Chinese Fantasy] novels.

Granted the heroes tend to supplement their physical bodies with mana as well, so although they may not be physically fatigued when their Spiritual Energy is depleted, their physical performance still drops off.

You don't say no to a very high knowledge check.

If need be you manufacture non-vital information that can satisfy the player's curiosity and feeling of need to be rewarded for the check without revealing anything that absolutely must not be revealed at this point.

On the other side of the subject, you DO give them something useful, something meaningful enough that the player feels it was good to develop the skill on the character in question.

Wealth; Danger/Threat to either self, property or people close to them [evil can care about people too, they're just unlikely to care about people in general]; Pleasure

It also hands out magic to just about every high level threat in existence

Mauler is incompatible with Improved Familiar unless you got Improved Familiar automatically via Pact Wizard Archetype

Skinwalkers aren't Lycans. The curse and the trials of gaining control over it [and the responsibility of the power it brings] are a hell of a story that many would like to experience once.

OOC: roommate? I have enough people I'm only bunking with my allies :P But I will roll with it. Looks like they went supercheap and shared a single room so I have my yelling roommate xD

"Itaaaaaaaaaaai!" a loud and violent shriek of pain echoed through the room as Natsu landed hard on the corner of a small table, having tripped over the clothes she and Hakan had left on the floor beside the bed they'd shared. Given the late hour of the prior night they'd all decided to come to the same in and- for the sake of catching up on old times- went ahead and broke tradition by sharing a single room between the three girls and single guy.

Rising was mixed thereafter, with Hakan rising swiftly in the wake of his sister's collapse and Odihna slowly dragging herself out of bed. Bri- on the other hand- rolled over and clamped the pillow over her head in an effort to drown out the sounds. "Quit yer damn yappin' ya bunch a monkeys!"

Like this the party filtered out into the commons- Hakan and Natsu together with Wallace trotting behind, then Odihna and finally Brygerri dragging up the rear by at least ten minutes. By then Hakan had his coffee, Odihna her tea and Natsu her whipped-cream-dominated-hot-chocolate.

"The room was great, the company on the other hand..." Odihna replied tartly, glancing at Natsu and Bri in turn... "Could use some work."

"Aye ya make a right s&*#ty bed partner Odi, tha's fer shure. I'll take an Irish* Coffee, make it strong will ya?"

"Ohaiyooo Ame-chan! Room was great, can you make me a sweet breakfast? Like fruit waffles or crepes or something? You... can understand me right, or have I missed my guess?" Natsu spoke in Minkan, making a guess based on Ameiko's name and features that she was a fellow Tian-Min. Though Natsu's figure hair and skintone didn't match, her facial features were a dead-ringer for her mother's people who made the Minkai Archipelligo their home.

"Forgive my sister's silly side, Hostess, she... prefers not to let go of her childish spirit." Hakan made the same assumption as Natsu, remembering full well his time in Minkai and with his step mother. Unlike her- however- he added in Common "My bad if we've made the wrong guess, regardless I'll take whatever you want to fix, I trust you'll make it good."

Knitifine wrote:
Sounds like another fun ability is going to be nerfed into nonexistence due to optimization.

The ability was pretty pointless before the optimization.

Lilith wrote:
Goddity wrote:
Should I make a bunch of cow puns or not?
Only if you're ready to eat that pie. :D

Don't have a cow Lilith, they're just puns :P

No arguments there Milo. I'm just a little disenchanted with aspects of the game, it's a feeling that's been percolating a few years now.

Heh heh heh.

Martials have gotten new toys, Spellcasters have gotten better new toys.

As for agency, I would certainly like to hear your thoughts on how you feel that's expanded R.D.

We never actually sorted out where everybody was going to sleep xD. I'd heard there was one inn that RotL tended to put some focus on, is that Risa's Place?

I suppose we might as well stay at Risa's Place tonight in two rooms, unless you wanted to bring us somewhere else.

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Ravingdork wrote:
TheRealHoratio wrote:
What has this game become?
A fun game and a great success worthy of much praise.

A step backwards in terms of balance and player agency, but one propped up into an excellent success through quality marketing and open source game mechanics and a thriving third party publishing base.

So roughly what is the right time I should start watching for posts? I'm ridiculously into this campaign :P

Goddity wrote:
Now I want to make a race called Farglehorn...

Paizo already did, they just called them Elves.

Mykull wrote:
Thank for making it clearer. I now understand. Every player has a fully fleshed out back story. Every single player finds the mechanics of the game a necessarily tedium to the story telling. No one crawls through multiple resources to extract every last extra bit of bonus headless of character concept. No one pastes together radically different races, classes, feats, traits, archetypes unless they've spent a great deal of time pen-cap-chewing over how this fits into a pre-existing idea of a character.

One thing you're missing here is that frequently these things don't require pen-cap-chewing to merge them into a pre-existing character idea.

That would mean that people were playing classes instead of characters. I don't know about you, but I far prefer my players to create characters to play and leave the rules under the hood.

There is no one, there never has been, and never will be anyone who would fit anyone's description of powergamer, min/maxer, or optimizer.

Of course there are. I myself am one. But almost every powergamer/optimizer I've played the game with has also been a very serious roleplayer.

TheRealHoratio is wildly off-base in his perceptions and must be utterly delusional to have even thought of this and one can only wonder at just how deranged he must be to not have discarded this inane thought out-of-hand and gone so far as to actually post it.

TheRealHoratio has already posted in this thread explaining that these were his knee-jerk reactions to seeing the builds and that he would discuss the matter in further detail with his players and see them play before making a final judgement.

Whether his lack of further commentary is because everything worked out great or because he's given up on advice from this community remains to be seen.

Heh, it's in my nature to clarify things. It's not my intention to nitpick.

Knitifine wrote:


I hate dark vision having a range limit. I would prefer darkvision to function similiar to low-light vision, where it's range is the same as normal vision.


PRD wrote:

Low-Light Vision

Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light.

Twice as far as dim light normally permits, not 'as far as normal vision'

-10 points till death isn't even Pathfinder.

Eagerly awaiting day two ^_^

[Also do we get some kind of award's ceremony and/or reward for our service during the attack or were we just one comparatively insignificant force of defenders among many?]

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Knitifine wrote:

Magic Items

Uncapped Ability Progression
The word "race".
Racial penalties.
Vancian casting.
Magic Items.
Intelligent Magic Items.
Fighter as a class.
Fighter as a name for a better Warrior.
Adept as a class.
Critical hits.
-10 points till death.
Divine magic.
Creature types having default traits.
Fey as a creature type.
HD targeting spells that aren't relative to caster level.
Saving Throws.
Prestigious Classes.
Ability score increases by level.
Death and Dismemberment.
Alignment subtypes.
Alignment targeting abilities.
Alignment restrictions.

I... think that's everything. Oh right, I'm supposed to say why... geeze, give me a couple days.

Do... do you even like Pathfinder?

They're using opposed charisma checks between the people with a dominate on the target Crimeo.

Goth Guru wrote:
I'm only ignoring the live action movie.

I don't know a fan who doesn't.

Imbicatus wrote:
MeanMutton wrote:
Revan wrote:
Zhangar wrote:
1) DCs that don't scale, like with poisons, alchemical items, and most magic items. A 95,000 gp item that imposes a measly DC 19 saving throw (mindmaster's eyes, for example) just sort of makes me cringe.
Good lord, this. So much this. And DC 19 is actually on the high end for those saving throws. I swear, I see way too many endgame level items with DC 14 saves.
The biggest problem, though, is you've got characters with poor saves and a dump stat so that at 20th level they only get a +6 or +7 to a will save alongside the cleric with the 34 Wisdom who has a +19 or so.
How did they ever survive to 20th level without being dominated into murdering their party?

Who dump-stats a save stat unless they have said save as a strong save?

A Fighter [for example] with less than 12 starting Wisdom is going to have massive problems.

It's also not like a martial class [unless you're a Swashbuckler, a Paladin(who gets saves from a different stat anyway and is thus not a problem in this specific case) or a Cha-Focused Barbarian] has any other stat to put into a Stat Boosting Headband anyway.

That means come endgame [ignoring Inherent Bonuses] the low saves should be somewhere in the vicinity of 6+5[resistance]+4[stat]= +15, average save result of 25, 24 if they started with a 10 Wisdom instead of 12.

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The whole reason we have this mess is because Paizo kept Heighten Spell rather than simply having spells cast in a slot actually BE a spell of that level >_<

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This conversation reminds me of something

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Buri Reborn wrote:
Doesn't matter. The luck of the initiative roll could give the perp a higher initiative. In no game system should that be allowed in that scenario. It makes zero sense. The entire transition from noncombat to combat makes zero sense in all but the most uncommon scenarios.
You're describing the classic gunslinger duel as making no sense. Which I don't see as being too different from your cop example.

In the classic gunslinger duel one of two things is occurring [assuming both participants are honest.]

Thing A: Combat Begins the instant it's time to draw and both roll initiative

Thing B: Combat Begins when the duel begins with each member readying an action to draw and shoot once it's time to draw.

In neither of these scenarios do we have someone who is prepared for combat but not engaged in it having their initiative beaten by someone who was comparatively unprepared.

Being able to randomly beat someone prepared with initiative from a state of unpreparedness is bad design.

By all means introduce day two. I wish it didn't have to wait until tomorrow though xD, but I understand you're 3 hours later than I am.

Obviously your parents are still rich, you aren't retraining your backstory you're retraining your trait.

That being said, it might be kind of cool to incorporate a 'fall from money' story into the retraining, where the parents lost it all somehow.

So I glanced at the list of your past posts and notice you recently posted saying that you didn't know how to use the dice roller?

Underneath the posting-text-box is a line that reads as follows:

How to format your text [Show]

Clicking the [Show] button will show the posting codes including how to dice. But I'll show it below as well [use normal brackets I've used the squiggly ones so the forum wouldn't process the code]

{dice}Dice expression{/dice]

So for example


results in

1d20 + 5 ⇒ (8) + 5 = 13

If you wish to label a given roll, you do it like so


"We're with the kissy faces over there!" Natsu teasingly called out from where she clung to Hakan's back, pointing out Aldern and Odihna with an extended finger. "Mr Foxy said he's buying tonight and I'm reeeeally thirsty. Got any sweet drinks? Oh, and maybe desert too? Foxy can I have desert!?"

Once again Hakan found himself sighing softly at his sister's antics. He could only imagine just how much shame her mother would be feeling given the girl's distinct lack of it, especially taking their Minkaian culture into account.

"Must you always impose on everybody every chance you get sis? You seem to be getting more spoiled by the year." Turning his attention towards the pair Hakan found himself feeling a little... irritated? Jealous? He understood full well Odihna's nature and the nature of their relationship as... friends... but that didn't change the feelings he held inside.

"Whether or not you buy her desert I want to thank you for hosting us Mr. Foxglove. Your hospitality is very much appreciated. I'll take plain ale. And you- fatty- mind getting back down onto your own two feet?"

chbgraphicarts wrote:
LazarX wrote:
chbgraphicarts wrote:
What they ALL lack is a distinct level of tact; they're proud warriors, and are all apparently very stubborn and blunt (Gohan being the SOLE exception, which may just be a naturally-high Cha offsetting the racial quality).
Or unlike every other Saiyan in existence, Gohan simply had a mother who taught him humility and proper manners.
Goten had the same mom, though...

Chichi got more lenient and less violent by the time Goten was born.

Understood. Looking forward to it :)

So, going forward should I stop expecting a post from you around 5PM Eastern / 2PM Pacific? You've missed that mark by a long shot several days in a row and I'm wondering if your afternoon/early evening schedule may have changed to make a post at that time no longer reliable.

Have you considered Monstrous Humanoid rather than Humanoid? Sure they're compatible with humans for crossbreeding but really, in D&D/Pathfinder what isn't!?

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More important than the Powergamer Roleplayer dichotomy is Powergaming Roleplaying harmony.

Where players simultaneously improve their skill at creating powerful characters and creating interesting characters.

I want to repeat something I mentioned upthread though, and that is that what is important to the story is the character not the class.

Why on earth do some GMs stress so strongly the default flavor text? Allowing players to actually write their own characters rather than force them to read off a script some game developer wrote is far better for both the player and your campaign.

Atarlost wrote:

Daily abilities. Encounters are balanced on a per encounter basis while most player abilities are balanced on a per day basis.

The 4-5 encounters per day assumption doesn't work. A typical dungeon that cannot be split into multiple days without teleport cheese has far more encounters than "should" be in a day while overland travel has far fewer.

Could you explain how these dungeons 'cannot be split into multiple days without teleport cheese'?

I've read tons of tales of parties either fortifying a room in a dungeon and resting there or falling back outside the dungeon [but in a position to intercept incoming reinforcements] and then plunged back in the next day.

Claxon wrote:
All that aside, it should be pretty easy to make a fun core only wizard. In fact, many of the best options for wizards are in the core rule book. Part of the problem is 1st level wizards don't have many spell slots, so they resort to cantrips. Thusly they aren't a lot of fun to play to people who like playing wizards (because you're just spamming a weak ranged attack spell).

The key to playing a wizard at low levels- but especially at levels 1 and 2, is the principle of One Spell One Victory.

Prepare spells that will change the tide of battle in your party's favor and drop the right one at the right time.

A Conjurer has at least three spells per day [1 Wiz Level, 1 from Intelligence and 1 from Specialization], four if he has a 20 Int or a Bonded Object, five if he has a 20 Int AND a Bonded Object.

Make it a point to play the 'game changer' in as many fights as possible. After that? Do what you like. Have your wizard pull a book out of his backpack and lay back against a wall or tree and read while the party cleans up after him. Or stand around and plink with cantrips if you feel like it.

Point being your primary contribution is your one spell that shifts the battle.

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Ross Byers wrote:
Even if they scaled based on caster level, cure light wounds is going to be cheapest on wands and potions - cure moderate would have to deliver twice as much healing at the same caster level.

Which they probably should be. Heck every +2 CR is categorized as twice as powerful anyway.

Sure it doesn't quite ring true in terms of blasting spells, but in general the best spells do have a very rapid and potent degree of escalation between levels.

I'd also like to see healing magic heal a value relative to the amount of hit points the target has, its silly that a High HP damage soak is so much more expensive to heal than a High AC tank when both are doing the same job.

Needs a Super Saiyan a race-exclusive prestige class which progresses through the stages as it levels.

Whatever game this occurs in needs easy and simple access to ki power type stuff-probably via feats- including flight available from level 5 or so onwards. [I might actually open it up before that if flight is very very expensive in terms of the Ki Resource at low levels. A few rounds of flight per day at level 3 isn't going to hurt anything especially if its at the cost of using other ki powers.]

Ross Byers wrote:
HeHateMe wrote:
Personally, I hate that channeling heals everything within the radius, including the bad guys. It's ridiculous to me that the channeler can't control who gets healed. That forces players to either be very careful with their positioning when channeling, or spend a feat on Selective Channeling, which rivals Combat Expertise for the title of most ludicrous feat tax.
I don't really like channeling at all. The 'present your holy symbol and affect a radius' thing makes sense for turning undead (and therefore to some degree for harming undead), but it isn't really a visual that I associate with healing. (It also makes the mass cure spells really underwhelming. Mass cure light wounds is a 5th level spell. But level 1 clerics basically have it multiple times per day.)

Mass Cure Spells have always been underwhelming. The extra targets are pretty much never worth the sacrificed combat potential of a spell several levels higher.

Heck the Cure Spells in general are pretty underwhelming, even more-so regards the characters with higher hit points that in theory are the ones who are going to take the most beating anyway.

Are Stumble Gap and Create Pit considered core spells? I was under the impression this PFS style was CRB only, but if it includes the entire Core Line that opens a TON of options.

[Incidentally Summon Monster I has never seemed worth it to me. Just not enough potency, coupled with crap duration when its relevant.]

3 HD is indeed pretty lame, but 7 HD with Undead Master [admittedly it's yet another feat but it fits extremely well into a Necromancer Build that incorporates the PFS swap from Scribe Scroll, costing only one actual build feat] ain't bad and on unintelligent undead it lasts forever [until they are destroyed or replaced.]

Obviously Command Undead Feat is inferior to Command Undead Spell, but I am still of a mind that in some cases at low levels having both is ideal. [At the very least in the case of the Necromancer Wizard I'm running through RotL right now.]

Of course you're bored, you're just spamming Acid Dart.

Grease and Obscuring Mist are both great choices for your Conjurer Bonus Spell.

Meanwhile there's a ton of excellent stuff for your additional spells, Color Spray, Charm Person, Sleep, Silent Image, Enlarge Person, Animate Rope...

All of it has amazing potential if used correctly.

Sure. I could accept whirlwind attack as a legitimate supplementary feat, were it not locked behind a ton of garbage and a BAB requirement of higher than 1.

That's another issue I have with this system, the prerequisites weigh it down like a load of bricks.

Anzyr wrote:
Command Undead (the spell) makes Command Undead (the feat) and most abilities that give you things like additional HD of Animated Dead completely irrelevant. Don't even bother with them. And no, you are not missing anything.

Depends on the level of play. At high levels sure, you're better off with the Command Undead spell and just repeating it as needed.

At low levels when every Commanded Undead is consuming a second level slot every few days and you're constantly juggling those level 2 slots and are basically losing them to keep your undead... it's nice but not great. Having both is an asset at this juncture.

Bill Dunn wrote:
You think anybody should be able to just swing at everyone within reach? How is that ability not a significant improvement over the standard action single attack or even full round action multiple attack (considering you qualify for whirlwind attack when you can probably only get 2 attacks) when it has the potential to hit quite a few more? That seems to fit in with your idea of the feat being supplementary to me.

I never said such an attack should be made without penalty without a feat, only that someone who knows how to fight should be able to actually fight even if they're surrounded rather than lie down and die.

They'll still probably die anyway but they might take a few of their assailants with them.

Crimeo wrote:
Wait... you're assuming an adamantine tool vaporizes the material it cuts? You still have to remove that material. Hauling rubble away from the tunnel you're digging through.
Yeah that's what the other 3-4 people in my party who are not wielding the dagger + our mule are for. They can easily keep up, unless we're talking REALLY long tunnels. If so it just takes a little longer. I can hire laborers for 1sp/day if I need to.

True enough, but that's a huge difference from 'instantly carve through walls.' It takes a long time to chip through a sizeable brick/stone wall with an adamantine anything until pretty high level when the martial should be able to just shatter the wall by headbutting it anyway.

If we're talking an Adamantium Dagger that's 3,000 gold, not something a level 1 character can afford.
Wealth by level, if being followed, would be 4,000gp total for the party prior to reaching level 2. We can definitely buy an adamantine dagger in a standard game at that point. (or if you truly don't think tool type being appropriate matters, an improvised weapon adamantine arrow for 60g...)

Really? You'd sacrifice that much combat potency for a digging tool? By all means go for it dude, you won't see me care that's for certain. [Aside from perhaps warning you that you'd do better putting that money into power rather than plowing through fortifications.]

Like I said I run Open World campaigns, my players involve themselves in plots in the world at large rather than crawling dungeons.
Sure, I can also use an adamantine dagger to make a whole city wall collapse with like, one afternoon's work, letting an army in.

Do you know how thick a city wall typically is? And that's just the minor city walls that are a single layer thick, the major city walls are two layers thick with a road-width gap between filled with large stones with sand filled into the gaps between them.

That being said, if a group of heroes really wants to force a way through a wall then they're going to do it. Acid- for example- also ignores hardness and eats directly through a stone wall's HP. Acid Splash is an at-will cantrip, delivering 1d3+1 [Acid Flask as a focus] acid damage every round until the wall is penetrated.

You know what works even better than that though? Sappers. Actual sappers using digging and mining tools to dig UNDER the wall. This doesn't require adventurers and their ridiculous pay-rates.

Or I can tell the rival kingdom to invest in 50 adamantine daggers (they can keep them afterward), and give me some stout men and we can go dig a quarter mile channel to reroute a river into the enemy town in a day or two. Don't even have to remove all the rubble, the river will later.

Why the focus on daggers? Heavy Picks cost the exact same to be made of adamantine and deal around 2/3rds more [2d4+Str*1.5 vs 1d4+Str] and bypass the typical controlling GM's excuse of 'it's not an appropriate device.'

On the subject of rerouting a river though, do you know which direction rivers flow? Downhill.

Do you know which direction fortifications and towns are usually built? Uphill [for security reasons.]

That's not to say one couldn't conceivably alter a river's course from a higher altitude than the city, but it's not as simple as you make it out to be [and we might actually see the Knowledge:Geography skill do something for once.]

I can destroy half a fleet before anybody notices with a scroll of Aboleth's Lung and touch of the sea and an adamantine dagger underwater.

Of course you can, who said otherwise? Not quite sure how the Adamantine Dagger plays into this but I suspect you'll enlighten me.

Would you care to provide some examples Bill?

I can name a few examples I certainly feel a character should just be able to do.

Cleave [become more vulnerable in order to carry a strike through one opponent into another]

Spring Attack [Hit somebody while moving]

Whirlwind Attack [Swing at everyone within reach]

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