kitenerd's page

You are still confused.

Nope, not confused anymore ;) - in fact it works exactly the way i thought it did before my rules lawyer munchkin group twisted my brain around!!!!

Check page 99... the wrong word is used. I posted it to the typos sticky.

Thanks for helping straighten me out

A

Page 99: Under Light: and One Handed: the entry reads:

Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a xxxx weapon if it's used in the primary hand...

this should read:

Add the wielder's Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a xxxx weapon if it's used in the primary hand...

This will make it more consistent with usage throughout the book.

Somewhere it should be clarified what happens to characters with a negative modifier, when they wield off handed and two handed (this is where the bonus if any gets multiplied but the modifier is used straight)

OK... Now i get it - and this was in fact the way we had run up until this point.

The issue is poor word choice on Page 99 of the Beta Rules. Under Light and One-Handed the book mistakenly uses Bonus instead of Modifier. This let the rules lawyers in my group point out that a penalty should not be applied. It is inconsistant with the usage in other areas in the book, so hopefully that will get rectified.

Thanks for the clarification

A

I vote in Favor of Initiative as a skill... if for no other reason as it makes sense.

1) if no one puts ranks in it, they have exactly the same initiative as they have now - so it is no change to those characters.

2) for those characters where it becomes a class skill - spending a mere 1 skill point gets them a 4 point boost in initiative (thats worth a feat for 1 skill rank - sweet)

3) i don't see it as a tax for anyone except rogue - and they get tons of skill points anyway

4) as for backwards compatibility - just use the monsters init as written until the new Pathfinder MM comes out - it really won't make that big a difference (i'm running a Pathfinder campaign using 2nd Darkness with very little modification, what i do i do on the fly, and it works just fine - yes the PC's are a bit more powerful and this would give them slightly better initiative - but it is fairly easy to compensate for at the table)

5) initiative as it stands is sort of a stepchild - it conforms to no system or subsystem - it is totally on its own - wrapping it into skills actually simplifies it and codifies it within the rules (as in which spells will add bonuses to initiative rolls etc.) - this simpifies the rules, which was at a certain level the overall objective

I like it in the skill list

A

Ok... Lets follow this to it's absurd conclusion:

If a character has a 7 STR... that is a -2 Modifier.

So damage with a longsword is 1d6-2.

Off-handed the damage is 1d6-1. Two handed it is 1d6-3!!!

This is how our whole silly debate got started. It was at this time that someone pointed out the strategic use of Bonus in place of Modifier in most places in the rules. The argument was made that this was intentional to indicate that a Penalty would not be applied. While this doesn't make intuitive sense, it does fix the silliness above.

Previous to this coming up, i had always applied STR penalties to damage. Then the halfling with the low strength asked about 2 weapon fighting and we all got totally confused.

I think the issue with cats may be one of size.

A

This is one of my beefs with the Pathfinder AP's.

I OWN the earlier AP's, but when i am running an adventure, i don't want to have to carry another book with me, just for a stat block. IMHO if they want to include something as a possible wandering monster, at least put the stat block in the bestiary (note: I'm not asking for the 2 page write up... just the stat block). I carry far tooo much stuff to my game every week.

I solved this by scanning and printing the stat block (I only recently succumbed to the temptation of the subscription - which gives you PDF's and makes printing things MUCH easier and faster) but this is a waste of my limited prep time.

Hopefully James will see this and decide it is worth 1/4 of a page to make all our lives easier ;)

Arnold

Under Strength on page 6 it says:

You apply your character’s Strength modifier to:
• Melee attack rolls.
• Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown
weapon (including a sling). (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks
receive only half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-
handed attacks receive one-and-a-half times the Strength
bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to
attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)

This has caused debate in my group - typically (except bows) you apply the STR bonus to damage, but not a STR penalty. This is in fact the verbiage used in all other sections (Equipment, Combat, etc.) so i think we just need to be consistent here to eliminate confusion.

Thanks

Arnold

I AM DEFINITELY EXCITED

As a GM, PFRPG is so much faster and more balanced than 3.5 (Web & Grease were two low level spells that used to grind the table to a halt... no more). Designing NPC is quicker and easier (as is auditing character sheets for 8th level multi class characters). Regardless of the change to the Barbarian in terms of how Rage points work (for the record - i like the point buy for usage mechanic) thay have still made the class interesting to play for the first time. Sorcerer bloodlines... WAY cool. I could go on and on and on.

As a consumer, i have never seen such a respect for the customer and such a democratic product development in my life. It is an honor to be a part of the process. The contrast with other publishers and manufacturers is striking. I cannot than the folks at Paizo enough for how they have handled this from start to finish.

My group is running 2nd Darkness in PFRGP (mostly converting on the fly - using some of the stat blocks graciously provided in the forum) and loving the new rules. I am running one offs at my FLGS and hoping to do some type of release party when the final rules hit the shelves.

Love it, Love it, Love it!!!!!

Keep up the great products ;)

Arnold

Since everyone is voting... i'll cast mine

I like the gap in levels.

I understand the arguments made against and see the validity of them. I like the suggestion that the set piece be designed to fit in the event someone does not want to create an adventure. I also think that GM's who are worried can just award exp slightly more generously and solve the problem that way.

Here is why i like the gap:
* I'm learning to GM and it is less threatening to me to write a small side quest, then to create a campaign - these gaps let me try my hand while having the AP safety net to land back in
* My players never follow the bouncing ball anyway... I have a cleric of Kurgess, who intends to volunteer for combat in Zincher's Arena... this should be entertaining
* Good roleplaying characters will have their own agendas... having a little wiggle room lets me indulge the individual party members
* I don't want to have to feel like when they stray from the path i need to immediately push them back onto the tracks... let them wander and they'll find their way back

Just my 2 cents... probably worth only half that

A

Totally understand it will be a short term thing, the character does not of course.

I'm thinking that the hurdle is deciphering a scroll with a DC just beyond her. (i.e. "Come back when you can tell me what this says, and i may have use of you" or some such arrogant condescending thing) She'll level up to 2nd soon and presuming she adds 1 to spellcraft she will then be able to comprehend the spell.

Once she is apprenticed, the Cyphermage will keep her busy with annoying petty errands and scribing scrolls with cantrips on them. In exchange she will learn a bit more about local politics and the current situation.

This lets me eventually throw the player a bone and let her transcribe a 1st/2nd level spell or two that she doesn't know, giving her the option of adding it to her own repertoire.

I have a character in my SD game who wishes to join the Cyphermages. I haven't found anything about cost to join, hurdles to clear before joining, dues, responsibilities, benefits. I'm planning on making these up, as it would be interesting for her to join and could also allow for some good side story later on. There are many minds here better than mine so i figured i would throw it out to everyone and see if we could come up with something together.

This character is first level. This doesn't necessarily have to be immediately attainable (she hasn't even scraped together the 20gp to get in the library yet ;) But it should be a realistic goal. I am not opposed to the responsibilities creating a conflict with her employment situation at the GG

Thanks in advance for your ideas

Arnold

I don't know about all of you, but when i am GMing and acting as a croupier and trying to subtly introduce various NPC's that will crop up throughout the rest of the adventure, the last thing i have brain capacity for is making up witty insults! So i cobbled together a brief list from various internet joke sites to refer to while running a game of ghoulette. I figured i'd post the list here so you can focus your prep time on more important things.

I take no responsibility for whether they are appropriate, funny or insulting.

1) Appearance
As ugly as you are, did your mother wear a blindfold to breastfeed?
Hey, I've seen people like you before - but I had to pay an admission...
Every girl has the right to be ugly, you seem to have abused that privelige!
Can I borrow your face for a few days? My butt is going on holiday.

2) Bloodline
You should learn from your parents mistakes - try using some birth control.
Just out of curiosity, are your parents siblings?
I hear you were born on a farm. Any more in the litter?

3) Dmeanor/Presence
Well, they do say opposites attact...this guy’s looking to meet somebody who is attractive, honest, intelligent, and cultured.
Anybody who told you to be yourself simply couldn't have given you worse advice...
I believe in respect for the dead; in fact, I could only respect you if you WERE dead.

4) Hygiene
Do you raise pigs, or just smell that way on your own?
You know there is a way to get rid of that rotting order.... try maggots
Did you ever consider braiding that nose hair?

5) Skill
The good thing about a game of chance is even a moron like you has a chance!
Next time you shave, try standing an inch or two closer to the blade.
You're quite a craftsman, The only things you ever make are mistakes.

6) Clothes/Equipment
Is that a cloak or did you get caught in the curtains?
You're red shirt goes well with your eyes...
Ohhhhh dressed up tonight, only three stains on the shirt, i’m honored

7) Body
I’ve heard of a pear shaped figure, but your working on pomegrenate.
I've seen better hands on a leper!
Excuse me, is that your nose, or are you eating a banana?

8) Race
Hmmmm, well look at you.... and they said rats an orcs couldn’t have offspring.
Wow hatchling, what laid your egg?
Question about your parents... who or better yet what mated with a grimlock?

9) Courage
I think you should live for the moment. But after that, I doubt I'll think so.
Here’s a man who takes comfort in his own courage, when the going gets tough, he pees himself
You sure are a colorful hero... all yellow

10) Profession
Where did you get money to gamble, youre to stupid to have a job
I know what sign you were born under...'RED LIGHT DISTRICT'
Youre quite a craftsman, The only things you ever make are mistakes.

11) Brains
Look at this idiot... he’s so dumb he thinks the Taldorian border pays rent
Are you always this stupid or are you just making a special effort today?
I heard that you changed your mind. So, what did you do with the diaper?
I'd love to ask how old you are, but unfortunately I know you can't count that high.
Why don't you just open your mind and shut your mouth, both are empty anyway.
You're the kind of man that is a blueprint for building an idiot.

12) Something Nice
Hey.... i seem to be missing my body, can i have yours?
Wow and just when i though the whole place was filled with total chumps, 1/2 chump here wlaked in.
Hey sweetcheeks wanna go for a spin?
You know your friends said you were stupid and ugly, but you don’t seem that dumb to me

Thanks for the input - i like a lot of what has been discussed and agree with the fact that it should be all living rather than just good aligned.

My use of cower was just flowery speech, completely forgetting that cowering is a condition in its own right. I was referring to the same frightened condition that accompanies Channel Positive Energy.

I think the best way to address this as a one off is to create a feat as a home rule (and maybe Paizo wants to consider this):

Chill of the Grave (or something less exciting but more explanatory like Frightful Channel): Your Channel Negative Energy is especially intimidating. Any living creature that fails a save against your Channel Negative Energy gains the Frightened condition for 1d4rnds

I like this... if it works out to be too powerful or unbalanced it is a simple matter to up the prerequisite for the feat so that it comes in at a more appropriate power level.

Hmmmm.... now to write another encounter ;)

Arnold

I agree with what has been said.

I finally got my group to abandon our 3.5 campaign, because i was desperate to start from scratch playing Pathfinder while there was still a chance to have a meaningful influence on the rules set. I love the fact that Paizo is handling it this way, but the 1 year window (shortened by printing lead time) does lend an air of desperation to the trial and error process.

We all have an axe to grind with one thing or another, but when we start hitting each other with the axes, we are no longer honing the edge. I find when the flames start, i end up reading the thread taking sides and keeping score, rather than evaluating the ideas in the midst of it all.

The nature of this is we have all been making house rules to fix our perception of what is wrong, likely as not that won't change. Hopefully Pathfinder can minimize some of the neccesity to do that. Paizo is in the wonderful (and thankless) position of listening to all of our ideas and trying to incorporate the simplest, most effective among them. That doesn't mean other ideas are bad, wrong or inferior.

I too would support banning repeat offenders. It lessens my enjoyment of the site and the game, when people lose perspective. We are supposed to be having fun after all. Thank you Paizo for making this cooperative environment possible. It is up to all of us to maintain the cooperation.

Arnold

Why doesn't Channel Negative Energy have the possibility of frightening good opponents?

If undead run in fear from the inherent "goodness" of the cleric doing the channeling, shouldn't good characters have the potential to cower in revulsion from the sheer evil emanating from the cleric who is channeling negative energy?

I just assumed this, and got burned GMing last night when the party came up against the Evil Cleric and his undead hordes. One of the players pointed out that there was not frightened component to Channel Negative Energy and it kinda chopped the encounter off at the knees. Ended up casting Doom for a similar effect, but it did bring up the question.

Is there a design reason for this?

Ok...

Finally got my hands on a hardcopy of the Beta book and i am LOVING it. Unsurprisingly the art is beautiful and the quality of the content is first rate. I am still processing all of the changes, but so far even the changes i don't like i agree with and appreciate how the changes will simplify my game (and for someone BEHIND the screen that is a BIG help). So with all that said i hate to be nit picky, but i will anyway ;)

Please switch to a two tone background for big charts like skills and feats. The alternating light dark background helps old guys like me with bad vision quickly scan across charts to see for example what stat a skill is based on. Without these bars, i literally need to slide a piece of paper up and down the page. This is really minor, but it would be an awesome help. WotC did this when they went from 3 to 3.5 and it alone was worth the price of another rulebook.

Love what you have done with our game!

Arnold

Has there been any discussion regarding Knowledge ranks...

I give my players 1/2 of their highest Knowledge score as a check for any other Knowledge category. It seems unlikely to me that you could be well educated in Knowledge (religion) and be ignorant of Knowledge (the planes) ditto with geography and history, or local and nobility, or architecture and dungeoneering for that matter.

With so few ranks to spread around, i feel it neccesary to reward my players that actually choose to spend ranks in knowedge, and it seems likely that in the course of any particular study you would gain a broader education as well.