kitenerd's page

Here's what i will be doing (starting Sunday) in our campaign (Beta):

Drow Sleep Poison
Save: DC 13
Fail: Unconscious 1d4 rnds.
Addl. Saves: DC 13
Fail: Exhausted 1d4 rnds.
Pass: Fatigued 1d4 rnds

Exhausted: -6 to Str & Dex
Move 1/2 speed
No Charge or Run
1 hour rest = Fatigued

Fatigued: -2 to Str & Dex
No Charge or Run
Anything which causes fatigue
results in Exhaustion
8 hours rest removes Fatigue

My players are mowing down the Drow, so this makes even a passed save somewhat problematic... a bit of an increase of the threat, to compensate for nerfing the longer unconscious period. If your party is not having the same ease with the drow, simply make a save totally negate.

While i left the mechanics for rest in the descriptions, i deliberately made everything 1d4. My intent is to have the poison affect that particular combat encounter tactically and strategically, not alter the course of the adventure.

And a ranger is supposed to shine while fighting his favored enemy.

It was just shocking to see the overnight transformation of the ranger. Suddenly he had an extra attack, an extra arrow and his favored enemy bonus was getting added in 4 times a round. He was unstoppable. Great for him, it was definitely his epic night and he earned a significant amount of credibility with the rest of the party. Terrible for the GM... i wasn't able to cause any havoc at all :(

In Pathfinder, you can use manyshot and rapid shot together.

When you do, your first shot shoots two arrows, your all shots suffer a -2 penalty and you gain one extra attack at highest attack bonus.

In 3.5 you can't use manyshot with rapid shot.

Last night the party's 6th level ranger was firing 4 arrows per round at his favored enemies and (assuming they all hit, and he is very good, so most did) doing 4d8+4(str)+16(favored enemy) damage - that is an AVERAGE of 36 point of damage per round for a 6th level character!!! - This is in a campaign where most of his encounters will be against his favored enemy (Second Darkness...). He was an unstoppable killing machine and had more kills than the rest of the party combined.

I don't mind the change in action type, or the fact that it can be combined with rapid shot, but why was the -4 removed????

Regarding goblins:

They are in the Bestiary Preview. They get -2 Strength, -2 Charisma and +4 Dexterity.

Actually running a game tonight with a Goblin Wizard (he used to be an elf, he is a little pissed off about his new looks and has a chip on his shoulder the size of Cheliax!)

Synergies are dead and buried.

While great fun to munchkin, they were an absolute pain in the posterior when trying to figure out a character sheet (for say an 8th level rogue/sorcerer...).

I love what Pathfinder has done with skills. As a GM i can build a 10th level Druid/Monk/Bard (god forbid) and not have to figure out at which levels he would be able to buy which skills. Simplified character creation immensely.

Thanks Paizo!

Thanks for the clarification... thats how i have been ruling it... but i was kinda hoping i was wrong ;)

If you take Agile Maneuvers to add Dex in place of Str when calculating CMB, do you then add Dex again for CMD???

if CMB = BAB + Dex + size

and CMD = CMB + Dex

does CMD = BAB + Dex + Dex + size

on the one hand it seems right, on the other hand it seems like double dipping

In Feats list Combat Casting still says +4 to Spellcraft, despite the fact that concentration is not part of Spellcraft anymore

I have been using the "generic" item cards for several years... Second Darkness was the first time i had an opportunity to use the custom set to go with the adventures. I was very surprised (just like you) that there was no key to tell you which items go where in the campaign... I posted a similar concern in the product discussion.

I have been watching this thread with interest to see if any of the Paizonians would come to your rescue... hopefully now that they are getting back from GenCon.

I too would vote for a lighter smaller book (don't get me wrong, i want the bible too).

I'd like a smaller PHB only type book, with relevant game information that you reference while playing. I am not dragging a 500+ page rule book and a bestiary to every session i GM (in addition to battle mat, minis, dice, 3 ring binder, adventure path, initiative tracker, etc. etc. etc.)

I would not like something that ended at 5th level, just something that left out all the GM stuff and magic items.

I'd buy a second book, thats gotta be worth something to a publishing company ;)

BONUS QUESTION: Did your players kill the wraith and free the ghost of Virashi?

As for Noqual, i made it a knowledge check. It had been found before, it is just that there had never before been an opportunity to harvest so much, hence the "gold rush" (people selling bogus maps of devils elbow, weird elixers of protection, special solvents to dissolve away rock and leave just the noqual... all sorts of stuff). My party is under treasured (they have managed to sink a fair bit of loot, first in riddleport harbor, then in the sea caves), but did rescue a Gas Forge Dwarf so they will be rewarded with some low cost goodies.

Really, was anyone supposed to like any elves at the end of this?

I too am troubled by how unlikable the elves are... Kwava in particular has nothing to offer the party in terms of information and yet is supposed to be their guide. Everyone in my group hates him and only tolerates him due to OOC comments from me. We have begun playing him a bit for comic relief and i can't wait to get rid of him. I plan to alter the story a bit in Armageddon Echo to portray the elves more sympathetically and try to rally the party to the cause. In the end the only reason they are following the path is because curiosity killed the cat...

Thanks for the reviews and tips, they will help me navigate the months to come!

This is all spoiler...

Good luck!

Our party suffered it's first casualty this evening.

Name: Angelina
Race: Elf
Class: Wizard 4/Rogue 1
Adventure: Children of the Void
Location: Sea Caves

So, I guess what I need is: how do I challenge these guys, without killing the party?

Places i dropped characters (i have not killed anyone):

as for some of the other issues...
a) everyone was once, now you are a veteran!
b) tooo much work to reroll each time - plus it plays havoc with delay and ready actions - from a player standpoint the set order allows lots of nifty tactical tricks (like rotating with 5foot steps to always have a flank...)
c) don't sweat the city too much, just insert what fits your characters needs - as an inexperienced GM myself, i take comfort in having everything done in advance, but in practice things go smoother when you make it up as you go.
d) use terrain to your advantage, don't forget concealment rolls, pay attention to the DR and resistances, cast your buffs pre combat and you should present a legitimate challenge to your party... in the mean time, let them dwell in their false superiority, it will make the smackdown oh so much more humbling ;)

hope this helps!

Any suggestions? Been going a rather xp-less route (partially due to trying it out, partially due to not having time to) and was curious on when people thought the PCs should level. I've been able to find suggestions on when they should level based off a 4-person party, but what about 5?

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!

Hope this helps

Has anyone tried the games? My group is somewhat unpredicatble, so I want to be prepared.

Bounder - Fun & Fast, easy to teach, quick to play - the best of them - not so great odds for the players, but it took them a while to realize and they control their wagers based on how they are rolling... so it worked out really well

Ghoulette - Just plain silly and a lot of fun - again quick to resolve and simple so you can focus on roleplaying the other participants and making the crowd come to life - I and others have posted lists of insults to make your life easy

Golem - Fun game, but too complicated to GM (i was playing the dealer, gambling the golem hand and trying to be two different sets of NPC's at the same time...) - i was not a fan, keeping track of all the action kept me in management mode rather than story mode

Skiffs - Cool concept - the game takes time and the winnings are meager - better suited as a pass the time on a guard shift game than a casino - but it is fun and has a bit of a strategic learning curve that makes it enjoyable to play

I'll confine my comments to the first few modules, as the group I GM is still on the second.

Be forewarned upfront.... this adventure starts slowly! Once you get to the second half of the first adventure things pick up, but in order to set up all of the things happening, many days need to go by. The roleplayers in your party will fill these days with all sorts of side stories (and get attached to Riddleport in the process), the combat monkeys will be bored stiff. Later on the story and combat both move faster so that it is easier to keep everyone happy. Also be watchful about alignment when helping your group create characters, Riddleport is a town where it is impossible to be squeaky clean, and on the flipside if a character is too ruthless they could become the Mayor!!!

Someone posted a timeline for Shadow in the Sky. It is awesome. I adapted it, moved a few events around and added some "non events" so it wasn't always a meta game clue when the PC's were asked to run an errand, or when someone came into the Gold Goblin (it is also a great way to foreshadow minor characters that will appear later or in the AP). The fact is that weeks go by as the story unfolds, so it really helps to know when it is and when payday is so you can keep the flow and trickle out clues and details appropriately. This has been the hardest part for me/my group we are all used to the sort of "time is of the essence, hurry up" type of campaign where there is no room to stray from the tracks. In this it is all about straying from the tracks and figuring out bit by bit how things fit.

Riddleport IS random encounters. Many of them (con men, drug dealers, fences, prostitutes) are the flavor of the town. Be ready for them so they feel genuine to the players (have a list of male and female names at your fingertips, so when you need to make any situation real, you don't have to invent a name). This is a fun city to GM, lots of great potential for characters with interesting motives. My players are wrote an entirely different story alongside the adventure, which is great fun.

In the first module, you will spend a LOT of time in the Gold Goblin. Get yourself a flip mat and draw out the Gold Goblin in sharpie. Then you can use dry erase to customize as things go on, but the sharpie will last the duration of the adventure. (For those who don't know - putting dry erase over the sharpie will let you erase both, restoring your flip mat to it's pristine condition for future adventures ;)

Most importantly... ENJOY IT! The really nice thing about the beginning of this adventure is things evolve slowly. You have all the time in the world to set the scene and make it believable. The burden of pacing, at least at the start, is on the players. The trick is to keep the days moving at a steady pace. We have gone whole sessions without combat encounters, and yet there are enough odd and interesting things happening that my players are enjoying it.

Children of the Void is running smooth as glass for my party. This is a very open ended adventure and yet my group is putting the pieces together in nearly perfect order. Rarely have i run something with so little to force the direction and had it go so smoothly, a testament to the skill of both Mike McArtor and my players.

There is another thread where someone pointed out problems with the adventure path with regards to railroads and leaps of faith. It is well thought out and has some simple fixes, it is worth hunting up.

Have fun!

Arnold

Just get yourself a Paizo flip mat and use the blank side to draw out the Gold Goblin in sharpie. Then you can use dry erase to customize as things go on, but the sharpie will last the duration of the adventure. (For those who don't know - putting dry erase over the sharpie will let you erase both, restoring your flip mat to it's pristine condition for future adventures ;)

I know lead time on a product that comes out monthly is tough, but i do wish with things like the Gold Goblin that they simply issued a Casino flip mat that matched the goblin... It would be just as useful as the "waterfront tavern" or the "bar" flip mat with the added benefit of being perfect for us adventure path fetishists (is that even a word?).

Ok... lot's of ideas so forgive me if this rambles a bit

1st off - I get an itemized reciept, in addition my purchase history is tracked in their computer (please god, don't let them tell my wife how much i spend on dice...)

Many of the objections to the various "buy print, redeem PDF" scenarios center on what happens with returns and or theft. I think these are specious objections, most of which would be handled by the retailer.

When it comes to theft, it is clearly the responsibility of the merchant just as if it were shoplifted. If a sealed envelope with a code is opened/removed or a mail in form is torn out of a book, someone in the store should have noticed. If they didn't my suspicion is there is a lot of product walking out the door. At any rate, it is a simple matter for the customer and or employee to verify that the product is intact when it is sold. If it is not, a discount should apply and the merchant should bear the responsibility, just as they would if a cover was torn etc.

As far as returns, they are sort of the same issue. A book with a page missing or a validation code envelope opened should not be returnable for full price. Giving the customer less in return value, would enable the merchant to sell it as "Print only, no PDF" and some lucky person who didn't care could save a few bucks. In the case of the code, if it was present and the envelope opened, perhaps the merchant could contact Paizo and have them reactivate the code for 1 more download. Yes this would "cost" Paizo a free download, but the nature of the process would insure it could not be abused as Paizo would know which retailers were requesting codes to be reactivated. My suspicion is this would be infrequent, but perhaps that reflects my consumer habits (if i like it it goes on the good shelf, products that dissappoint go to the shelves in the laundry room ;))

Again all of these depend on the merchant doing their job, but most decent retailers look out for their customers and have a great deal off experience with return policies and abuses. Failure to handle these issues properly will result in a bad impression of the retailer, not Paizo. At worst, i could forsee limited situations where Paizo created a code especially for a disgruntled customer to keep them happy, while making them aware that their retailer had done them a disservice. Again in this scenario Paizo has tracking on which retailers are causing the problem.

I still would favor a system where merchant participation was required. (Either a sticker attached to the mail in form at the time of purchase or perhaps a two part activation code where the number in the book also required an additional few digits to identify the retailer which the retailer would supply at purchase.) This would be an advantage to the small shop, and would give Paizo a way to weed out problem stores. If a store was a "Paizo Plus" dealer (or some far more saavy term that isn't occuring to me now) customers would know they would get free PDF's with purchase. Stores which couldn't handle the program would lose their preffered vendor status.

As far as retailers fearing Paizo as competition, given the amount of value i get buying direct from Paizo, there is a legitimate reason for them to fear this. Giving those merchants a way to offer greater value would only serve to level the playing field and make Paizo seem more of an ally and less of a threat. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 99% of people who would want a PDF of a Paizo product, have an internet connection and probably realize Paizo has a website. That being said it would be fairly easy for Paizo to have a redemption page which was seperate from the rest of the website and could even be viewed within a window from the local store if they were web saavy.

So whats in it for Paizo? Lower margins, more hassles - seems like a great deal to me ;) In truth we all know that a good local store is the best advertiser and promoter of product there is. While it would be difficult to accurately assess the value of the game store in promoting Paizo product, i can think of very few options which would be better targetted and more effective (actually i can think of only one, a booth at a con - and that reaches a very small percentage of the market). Clearly when one of your best marketing allies is facing economic challenges it seems like basic self interest to take reasonable steps to help them compete. Also, Kevin Andrew Murphy's idea about upselling the free PDF should not be ignored. Possibilities include: additional PDF sales being offered at the time of redemption (say Pathfinder Scenarios which aren't in the retailer), Coupon pages built into free PDF's to promote related products (Discounts on Campaing Setting, or "try your first Adventure Path at XX% off"), or even simply advertising to build awareness of GameMastery products or Planet Stories (these type of things are in the hard copies... why not make them Page 1 of the free PDF, so it opens to an ad??? - a bit tacky to some perhaps, but a small price to pay for a free PDF and it may serve to introduce folks to other products)

Lastly, i want to touch on stores. Someone made a joke about the LLGS (lousy local game store) and there have been lots of remarks about negative practices at less than stellar merchants. Clearly if your local store does not provide the experience or service you are looking for, then you owe them no loyalty. In my case, my local game store (5 minutes away) is a comic book shop filled with kids playing Magic. Everytime i go there i feel like a 40 year old adolescant, who desperately needs to get a life. So i don't go. I am quite sure for someone else it is the right store.

My FLGS (Gamescape North in San Rafael CA) is over 40 miles from my house. Due to distance i go less than once a month, but i am always greeted by name when i walk through the door. They host game nights and miniatures paining workshops, and the clientele runs the gamut from housewives to high school students, ordained ministers to graphic designers. I have been involved in one off roleplaying games so immersive i was nearly in tears, as well as multiple GM games where players shifting realities moved between tables to different GM's. Everytime i leave the store i am thankful that i particiapte in a hobby that attracts so many amazingly interesting and fantastically creative people. I am priveleged to have this store within driving distance and will do all i can within my budget to support them.

I spend a lot of time at my FLGS. I really absolutely do not mind paying a higher price there for a book than I can buy on Amazon, because if I do not buy from them, then they won't be there as a hub of local gaming.

Hopefully Paizo will find a way to support the small game shops. These are the places people find out about the latest games and the best products. They are an essential marketing arm for Paizo and well worth the small dip in profit margin (wholesale is about 45% off, subscription is 30%). I'm running a Pathfinder game at a game night next week, introducing more people to PFRPG.

Funny how when thinking people put their heads together good ideas result!

Thanks to Herald for lots of good thoughts on what to look out for when designing a tamper proof system.

The discourse with Xuttah (sniping aside... please lets focus on solutions, and finding/solving problems with those solutions - not finding problems with the poster) showed progress in getting to a viable solution.

Huge thanks to J Joes for reminding us that sometimes low tech old school solutions work best. If Paizo cannot or will not make the leap of faith to trust their retailers, this option would put total control of the process with Paizo (at the cost of additional workload to process the mail in forms, with the possibility of additional revenue from Kevin Murphy's suggested "bonus" material). As for copying the forms... given Paizo's high production values (full color/double sided/glossy stock) i don't think this would be an issue.

I love Herald's idea toward supporting the FLGS. This is (to me) the attraction of having the store participate in the free PDF program. If it was only available through game stores, it would give them a small but significant way to compete with Amazon and Big Box retailers. This is the biggest drawback i see to J Joes mail in form.

My idea was that somehow at the time of purchase the retailer logged onto Paizo to put one in the customers download cart. This would require customers to have an account in advance, printed forms with some type of validation code (while more cumbersome) would allow customers to create an account after the fact. Some retailers will balk at the idea of sending their customer directly to Paizo (out of fear), but i think most retailers realize we are all fairly savvy. We choose to support our FLGS because of the added value, not becaue they are the only or most cost effective choice.

Another interesting idea would be some type of sticker that the retailer applied to the mail in form at the time of purchase. This would prevent duplication and create retailer buy in (more likely to be done by the small store than the big box).

There are really two issues here... Is the objective to:
a) deliver PDF content along with print
b) support local game stores
c) both

My hope would be that Paizo can find a workable solution to do both.

I have been concerned about this issue for a long time (i actually apologized to my FLGS owner when i subscribed... he deserves my business, in fact he turned me on to how great Paizo products were in the first place - i buy ALL my non AP products in his store). Since this issue has exploded in response to WotC's decision, the industry has been quick to take a stand and make their position clear. Some great game companies are proving that there are ways to solve these issues:

Catalyst

Evil Hat

I am confident that Paizo will find a way to handle this situation. Given the consistant respect that they have shown the gaming community, it seems only natural for them to be one of the leaders on this issue as well.

In the mean time, lets keep brainstorming... i know they are listening ;)

Two things are clear after going through this thread

1) There is a lot of debate and or blatant hypocrisy about whether PDF sales actually help or hurt Print sales.

2) Local game stores have a hard time competing with virtually every other distribution channel. Plain and simple - they have higher overhead. That overhead goes toward space for us to game, building community and paying a staff that actually knows something about the products we are interested in. I believe there is little room to debate the fact that the local game store is important to the community.

Clearly Paizo understands and values their front line retail partners. Yet when legitimate ideas are suggested that would help support small retailers, they are summarily dismissed. Worse yet some of those same valued partners are accused of being thieves who don't have their customers best interests at heart.

In response to this statement: "But then the card would have to make it from paizo, to the distributor, to the FLGS without being lost"

Yes (where the word "lost" is in quotes).

While many retailers would happily take the effort and participate with honesty in such a plan, other retailers would be unable to organize the effort. Some would flat-out refuse to pass on the card, as, in their view, they'd be sending their customers to a perceived competitor (be it Paizo, the internet, or the PDF medium). Some would use the codes themselves, potentially leaving customers to be disappointed.

We need a solution that doesn't rely on the retailer's willingness or ability to participate.

Any retailer who failed to reward the customer who came to their store and spent money on a print product (by giving them their free download certificate) would be stealing from the CUSTOMER and not Paizo. I don't think that is good business sense. Retail is tough enough, no sane intelligent business owner would insult the people who go out of their way to support their store.

That being said, even if some of the cards made it into hands that weren't the purchasers of the print versions, wouldn't that only help to BUILD interest in the product line and result in more sales somewhere else??? (this is the argument Paizo makes to support it's decision to sell PDF's at a discount)

Kevin Murphy had a great point that bears repeating:

Well, that's why I was calling it the "perfume counter" model: not all stores have them, some run out, some products don't come with them, and sometimes clerks throw in some freebie leftover from a previous promotion.

I may miss my guess here, but I'm pretty sure that the companies send enough extra that that the clerks can all snag one for themselves as well if they want. But they're the incentive for paying full department store prices rather than going to discount perfume barn. ie. FLGS rather than Amazon.

Admittedly it's not a perfect solution, but it is a business model that's in place and apparently functioning at some level otherwise they wouldn't keep doing it.

I urge Paizo to find a solution to this problem, even if it is not perfect. I am not about to quit supporting Paizo over this. But I do expect Paizo to show the small local game stores the same level of respect it shows its customers.

Very NICE!!!!!

too funny - love the graffiti i am surprised my party didn't think of using graffiti as advertising... they tried everything else ;)

look forward to seeing more

thanks

A

Please reissue this shirt...

I MUST have one... and with only small left i'd have to buy several to make an XL ;)

A

There are moments when i absolutely love playing this game...

And now it is off to Children of the Void!

When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit
any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells,
or abilities.

The way it is written you would loose stuff like Weapons Focus, Weapons Finesse, Greater Weapons Focus, etc. etc. etc - Using this feat would mean recalculating everything...

Should i move this to typos?

As for the difference in feats - they apply to different builds of characters... to me Whirlwind is superior... but your average beater might not clear the intelligence hurdle

A

I came here looking for a thread on Selective Channeling and was surprised there has not been any feedback on this.

Does anybody else have an issue with the number of excluded opponents being linked to CHA modifier?

This is a really core feat for the cleric to function in the way it has been re-envisioned. Restricting this feat by linking it to CHA really undermines a lot of characters efficacy as a healer. It shoehorns a "certain" build (ie Wisdom, Charisma) for Channel to be used as combat healing. It forces other builds (Wisdom/Strength fighter cleric, Dex/Wisdom rogue/cleric,etc.) back to the same old problem of using spell slots for combat healing.

I'm surprised there hasn't been any discussion of other mechanics here (like perhaps # of excluded opponents = 1/2 clerical level). Tying it to level would represent the clerics experience at "directing the blessings offered by her deity" to her allies.

Any thoughts?

Arnold

Forgive me for a basic question, especially if it is answered elsewhere (i couldn't find it but there is a lot of info in these threads):

Lets say a rogue chooses as a rogue talent Minor Magic and selects Ray of Frost (which is a ranged touch attack). Assuming the conditions for Sneak Attack are met for a traditional ranged attack, if this ranged touch attack hits, would the rogue get sneak attack damage?

If so this seems like a great deal as Touch AC is usually a lot easier to hit ;)

thanks

Arnold

Hi Joana,

Welcome to the fun of Second Darkness and PFRPG.

Sounds like you had a great start, i did something similar with folks arriving with separate backstories and all eventually meeting each other, very fun.

Couple quick things:

1) There is a handy thread where people smarter than i have done all the heavy lifting of converting all the NPC to PFRPG, you can just print out new stat blocks. Check it out here

2) I use sharpie on my flip mats all the time (i highly recommend drawing out the GG in sharpie as you'll be there a lot and it helps to just leave it on the table) you can just write over the sharpie with dry erase and then both wipe away together (good for revealing secret doors etc.)

Have fun and i look forward to following your groups adventures

A

what's the scale? Is it the usual 1 square = 5', or does it "expand" outdoors, where 1 square = 10'?

have fun GMing this - it is a delight to run

A

Heh. My group also includes a cyphermage apprentice. Anything you wrote up to specifically cater to that character - e.g. initiation ceremonies, tasks or something similar?

I can't speak to the later portions of the adventure as i am still GMing in Riddleport. Two months in we are at the Foamrunner.

I love the town of Riddleport. It is a vast blank slate to fill in my players wants and desires... they will be sad to leave. I will be sad to have them leave as Riddleport is full of fun interesting slimeballs who are just a joy to roleplay as a GM.

I have 1 character joining the cyphermages as an apprentice (lots of petty errands and scroll scribing, which occasionally gets her a new spell), 1 character going to try to become a champion in Zincher's Arena (long story... but the short version is - survive the bloodbath win 1,000gp - the player's motivation is as much the xp as the gp), and the rest of the group is busy trying to make the GG as profitable as possible (including installing a beer brewery and buying hard liquor from a dockside fence at discounted prices in order to bolster the bottom line). I can't remember the last time we have gone 2 months without a blatant railroad track... i'm almost sad to see it coming. At this point they are writing the adventure and i am along for the ride.

I haven't prepped far enough in advance to worry about the elven choo choo - but my group is a bunch of sneaky characters and so i'm guessing they will be all over the infiltrate the dark elves plan.

I do hope to be able to spend time in Riddleport during the rest of the AP, my guess is my group is not going to want to be rid of the GG after working so hard to make is a success.

Thanks for starting this thread... i'll be watching for pitfalls that may lie ahead as i am guessing most groups run faster than mine.

SlingStaff was also in the 2e Arms & Equipment Guide - i always thought it was cool and have periodically seeded them as treasure in my games.

Always liked the Halfling +1 to thrown. Would support the idea of a Halfling Exotic weapon whether it was Sling Staff or Throwing Stick (Boomerang which returned on missed attacks would help carrying capacity). Love any idea that adds flavor without becoming too unbalanced.

In the end who doesn't want to give the halfling a little love. I'm always happier GMing a group with a halfling in it...

that would make folks wait 2 months to get the next installment of the campaign they're running. We tried that at the start with Dungeon's Shackled City adventure path, and that didn't turn out so well. People want them every month.

This is the first AP i have run and i am for the most part very happy. Some bits could be a bit better organized, and i agree that Riddleport could have been a bit more fleshed out... but i like coloring in the empty spaces. My biggest complaint is that the adventure cards aren't out yet... hurry!!!

I understand the need for the income stream (i am a tributary to that river) and am thrilled that Paizo has the cash to be stable and continue making great products, but i would have no problem with an every 2 month schedule for AP's. If you need my $$$ every month, alternate the AP with stand alone modules, supplement material or even a second AP (although that seems a bit confusing), or hell... just charge me double ;). Whatever you do... keep doing what you are doing! If you feel a little more time will help you make a lot better product, take the time and know that i (and many others no doubt) will be happy to find other ways to support you ;)

Our group has similarly house ruled this... we use:

20gp x spl lvl^2

this is a simpler version of an idea posted elsewhere

this works great - cantrips free (eveyone knows them...), 1st level very inexpensive, at 5th level it is the same, and at very high levels spells actually cost slightly more

try it it works and speaking as a GM it makes spellbooks a more frequent treasure item (otherwise they are just toooo valuable)

This is a clever idea! - Kudos

I will say this - Pathfinder covers tooo much. It is a role playing game... Pathfinder = D&D. It is a Campaign setting... Pathfinder = Forgotten Realms. It is an organized play group... Pathfinder = Living Greyhawk. Plus it is a series of adventure paths and stand alone (and linked) modules. Oh yeah and a set of fiction stories.

I'm all for brand id... but it gets confusing. Especially with the differences between d20 and P20 (disconnects between the campaign setting and the PFRPG, ie clerical domain benefits). It took me a while to figure out what was what.

The P20 idea is a brilliant way to help create some seperation.

Congratulations... I am running Second Darkness and it is the first AP i have run for my group... It is turning into a fun one. Just a couple of things that have helped me a lot. Many of these reflect the fact that i'm not really quick at making stuff up on the fly

1) Get a list of names - i use baby name lists off the internet. For this setting eastern european names seem to fit nicely. Have 20 male and female names at your fingertips, so when you need to make any situation real, you don't have to invent a name.

2) I keep a binder section for locations with bare bones info (name of business, proprietor). You'll probably want to have some bars, inns and shops prenamed and scattered throughout town. This makes it much less obvious which direction a party should go and lets them spend more time exploring the city.

3) Someone posted a timeline. It is awesome. I adapted it, moved a few events around and added some "non events" so it wasn't always a meta game clue when the PC's were asked to run an errand, or when someone came into the Gold Goblin (it is also a great way to foreshadow minor characters that will appear later or in the AP). The fact is that weeks go by as the story unfolds, so it really helps to know when it is and when payday is so you can keep the flow and trickle out clues and details appropriately. This has been the hardest part for me/my group we are all used to the sort of "time is of the essence, hurry up" type of campaign where there is no room to stray from the tracks. In this it is all about straying from the tracks and figuring out bit by bit how things fit.

4) Riddleport IS random encounters. Many of them (con men, drug dealers, fences, prostitutes) are the flavor of the town. Be ready for them so they feel genuine to the players. This is a fun city to GM, lots of great potential for characters with interesting motives. My players are writing an entirely different story even as the adventure is unfolding, which is great fun.

Most importantly... ENJOY IT! The really nice thing about the beginning of this adventure is things evolve slowly. You have all the time in the world to set the scene and make it believable. The burden of pacing, at least at the start, is on the players. The trick is to keep the days moving at a steady pace. We have gone whole sessions without combat encounters, and yet there are enough odd and interesting things happening that my players are enjoying it.

Have fun and let us know how it goes!

Arnold

You are still confused.

Check page 99... the wrong word is used. I posted it to the typos sticky.

Thanks for helping straighten me out

A

Page 99: Under Light: and One Handed: the entry reads:

Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a xxxx weapon if it's used in the primary hand...

this should read:

Add the wielder's Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a xxxx weapon if it's used in the primary hand...

This will make it more consistent with usage throughout the book.

Somewhere it should be clarified what happens to characters with a negative modifier, when they wield off handed and two handed (this is where the bonus if any gets multiplied but the modifier is used straight)

OK... Now i get it - and this was in fact the way we had run up until this point.

The issue is poor word choice on Page 99 of the Beta Rules. Under Light and One-Handed the book mistakenly uses Bonus instead of Modifier. This let the rules lawyers in my group point out that a penalty should not be applied. It is inconsistant with the usage in other areas in the book, so hopefully that will get rectified.

Thanks for the clarification

A

I vote in Favor of Initiative as a skill... if for no other reason as it makes sense.

1) if no one puts ranks in it, they have exactly the same initiative as they have now - so it is no change to those characters.

2) for those characters where it becomes a class skill - spending a mere 1 skill point gets them a 4 point boost in initiative (thats worth a feat for 1 skill rank - sweet)

3) i don't see it as a tax for anyone except rogue - and they get tons of skill points anyway

4) as for backwards compatibility - just use the monsters init as written until the new Pathfinder MM comes out - it really won't make that big a difference (i'm running a Pathfinder campaign using 2nd Darkness with very little modification, what i do i do on the fly, and it works just fine - yes the PC's are a bit more powerful and this would give them slightly better initiative - but it is fairly easy to compensate for at the table)

5) initiative as it stands is sort of a stepchild - it conforms to no system or subsystem - it is totally on its own - wrapping it into skills actually simplifies it and codifies it within the rules (as in which spells will add bonuses to initiative rolls etc.) - this simpifies the rules, which was at a certain level the overall objective

I like it in the skill list

A

Ok... Lets follow this to it's absurd conclusion:

If a character has a 7 STR... that is a -2 Modifier.

So damage with a longsword is 1d6-2.

Off-handed the damage is 1d6-1. Two handed it is 1d6-3!!!

This is how our whole silly debate got started. It was at this time that someone pointed out the strategic use of Bonus in place of Modifier in most places in the rules. The argument was made that this was intentional to indicate that a Penalty would not be applied. While this doesn't make intuitive sense, it does fix the silliness above.

Previous to this coming up, i had always applied STR penalties to damage. Then the halfling with the low strength asked about 2 weapon fighting and we all got totally confused.

I think the issue with cats may be one of size.

A

This is one of my beefs with the Pathfinder AP's.

I OWN the earlier AP's, but when i am running an adventure, i don't want to have to carry another book with me, just for a stat block. IMHO if they want to include something as a possible wandering monster, at least put the stat block in the bestiary (note: I'm not asking for the 2 page write up... just the stat block). I carry far tooo much stuff to my game every week.

I solved this by scanning and printing the stat block (I only recently succumbed to the temptation of the subscription - which gives you PDF's and makes printing things MUCH easier and faster) but this is a waste of my limited prep time.

Hopefully James will see this and decide it is worth 1/4 of a page to make all our lives easier ;)

Arnold

Under Strength on page 6 it says:

You apply your character’s Strength modifier to:
• Melee attack rolls.
• Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown
weapon (including a sling). (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks
receive only half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-
handed attacks receive one-and-a-half times the Strength
bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to
attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)

This has caused debate in my group - typically (except bows) you apply the STR bonus to damage, but not a STR penalty. This is in fact the verbiage used in all other sections (Equipment, Combat, etc.) so i think we just need to be consistent here to eliminate confusion.

Thanks

Arnold

I AM DEFINITELY EXCITED

As a GM, PFRPG is so much faster and more balanced than 3.5 (Web & Grease were two low level spells that used to grind the table to a halt... no more). Designing NPC is quicker and easier (as is auditing character sheets for 8th level multi class characters). Regardless of the change to the Barbarian in terms of how Rage points work (for the record - i like the point buy for usage mechanic) thay have still made the class interesting to play for the first time. Sorcerer bloodlines... WAY cool. I could go on and on and on.

As a consumer, i have never seen such a respect for the customer and such a democratic product development in my life. It is an honor to be a part of the process. The contrast with other publishers and manufacturers is striking. I cannot than the folks at Paizo enough for how they have handled this from start to finish.

My group is running 2nd Darkness in PFRGP (mostly converting on the fly - using some of the stat blocks graciously provided in the forum) and loving the new rules. I am running one offs at my FLGS and hoping to do some type of release party when the final rules hit the shelves.

Love it, Love it, Love it!!!!!

Keep up the great products ;)

Arnold

Since everyone is voting... i'll cast mine

I like the gap in levels.

I understand the arguments made against and see the validity of them. I like the suggestion that the set piece be designed to fit in the event someone does not want to create an adventure. I also think that GM's who are worried can just award exp slightly more generously and solve the problem that way.

Here is why i like the gap:
* I'm learning to GM and it is less threatening to me to write a small side quest, then to create a campaign - these gaps let me try my hand while having the AP safety net to land back in
* My players never follow the bouncing ball anyway... I have a cleric of Kurgess, who intends to volunteer for combat in Zincher's Arena... this should be entertaining
* Good roleplaying characters will have their own agendas... having a little wiggle room lets me indulge the individual party members
* I don't want to have to feel like when they stray from the path i need to immediately push them back onto the tracks... let them wander and they'll find their way back

Just my 2 cents... probably worth only half that

A

Totally understand it will be a short term thing, the character does not of course.

I'm thinking that the hurdle is deciphering a scroll with a DC just beyond her. (i.e. "Come back when you can tell me what this says, and i may have use of you" or some such arrogant condescending thing) She'll level up to 2nd soon and presuming she adds 1 to spellcraft she will then be able to comprehend the spell.

Once she is apprenticed, the Cyphermage will keep her busy with annoying petty errands and scribing scrolls with cantrips on them. In exchange she will learn a bit more about local politics and the current situation.

This lets me eventually throw the player a bone and let her transcribe a 1st/2nd level spell or two that she doesn't know, giving her the option of adding it to her own repertoire.

I have a character in my SD game who wishes to join the Cyphermages. I haven't found anything about cost to join, hurdles to clear before joining, dues, responsibilities, benefits. I'm planning on making these up, as it would be interesting for her to join and could also allow for some good side story later on. There are many minds here better than mine so i figured i would throw it out to everyone and see if we could come up with something together.

This character is first level. This doesn't necessarily have to be immediately attainable (she hasn't even scraped together the 20gp to get in the library yet ;) But it should be a realistic goal. I am not opposed to the responsibilities creating a conflict with her employment situation at the GG

Thanks in advance for your ideas

Arnold