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Verik Vancaskerkin

kinevon's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Modules Subscriber. FullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,562 posts (3,717 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 23 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Andoran

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phantom1592 wrote:

My annoyance with 'levels' in a game... is A) that its not as innate as it should be.

You can call yourself a 5th level wizard... but where did you get that rank? Who gave it to you? Did you go back to the tower and take a placement exam?

If you focus a lot on training rules, then that works just fine.... but I don't see anyone in any book referring to themselves as '3rd level fighters...' so i'm not a fan of it tossed in with casters either.

and...

B) It sounds kind of stupid. Claiming your a 5th level wizard is much more dumb sounding then claiming to be a master of the Fifth ring of the Order of light....

Means the same thing, but I don't know... I just don't care for 'level-speak'

I think in-game, we currently refer to spells as being of certain 'circles'. Our sorcerer can currently cast a single spell of the fifth circle...

It's petty, but we like it ;)

And that works fine, in a closed group, where you are metagaming the meaning. The instant someone new joins your group, you either have to step out of character to explain it, or you have someone who is totally confused, and probably not having a bunch of fun.

OGL core refers to a bunch of things by the word level. Many of us either have been using the term for years as Gary & Dave defined it, or grew up using it that way.

Remember that what your group uses if it is non-standard, is fine for your group, but you need to remember taht visitors and new members will need to be brought up to speed on it.

For PFS, since it is an open campaign, using the standard terms is not metagaming, it is playing the game as written.

Can your PC tell the difference between a Fighter, a Ranger, a Paladin, and a Samurai? At times, they can all look almost identical to a casual viewer.

Fighter with a bow
Ranged Ranger
Divine Hunter (I think it is) Paladin
Zen Archer Monk

Overall, from a distance, they will look very similar.

Andoran

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Finlanderboy wrote:
kinevon wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

When I think about it, I think wow if I were playing there I would have had my game wrecked.

You gave an example where a player is making bad choice after bad choice and you have to lower the bar to keep them playing.

I am sorry your example does not appeal to me only firms my stance. I want that challenge and threat. If I were you, I would have advised the player against the actions that could have caused that. As a DM of new players I say often hey I would advice against X and here is why. So they learn. You taught them they can play reckless with no threat. Again let them know when they are playing up how deadly it is, the threat involved. Say a pregen may be a good idea. If you really wanna play up, you NEED to play smart. Going toe to toe is a bad idea. You failed him letting a newbie walk into hat threat ignorant

Say what?

Did you actually read my spoiler?

Just as an FYI, a 2nd level fighter, which is what she was playing, has both better defenses and better hit points than most 4th level casters.

Spoiler:
High AC fighter, going total defense for additional AC. Creature needs a 16 to hit.
A 16.
So, 25% chance of a hit.
10% chance of a potential critical.
25% chance of confirming that 10% critical.
2.5% chance of that bad luck happening.

That is neither challenge nor threat. That PC was in good armor, doing the appropriate thing to survive. Your response is neither appropriate nor reasonable.

Additional, semi-relevant information:
The player had already been using pregens at a local con to get 2 of the 3 XP that this PC had. So you want her to play yet another pregen when she was p[laying a perfectly legal PC who was legal for the table?

2nd level PC, in sub-tier 3-4 of a 1-7 scenario.

As a matter of fact, other than "Don't play.", we, GM included, were giving her good advice.

Caryatid column:
Damages weapons when the weapon hits them, so don't attack.
If you aren't attacking anyhow, you should just go with Total Defense, to increase your AC, and reduce their chance of hitting you.
2nd level fighter with a base AC of 20, Total Defense made it 24. That is a good AC for APL4, not so?

The casters needed someone to block the advance of the columns, so they can get spells off to try and destroy the columns.

Oh, and her PC had both the best AC and the best hit points in the party.

So, other than "Don't play this scenario, or don't play the PC you have built, and play yet another pregen that is, at best, not the build she wants to use, what would your reasonable advice be?

Or would your advice just be to kill her PC, with an evil laugh, and drive yet another new player away from PFS?

Andoran

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Finlanderboy wrote:

A GM that softballs.

A GM that does not know the rules and does not wants too.

A GM that cheats, at all, even for the players. See softballing.

A GM that hates roleplay or combat, and avoids either.

A GM that starts the game off bashing the adventure. I am spending 4+ hours playing this do not start it on a bad step.

A GM that ignores people.

I softball, when it is needed.

Voice in the Void:
Running a group through at sub-tier 3-4. Only melee in the party is the 2nd level fighter, who has a good AC. And this is the player's first and only PFS PC, and the first time played at second level.

So, she is having her fighter going Total Defense, which increases her AC significantly. The caryatid column needs a 16 to hit at all.

So, she has already been hit once, took a small amount of damage during this combat. Her allies are using spells and ranged attacks to destroy the column. At this point, the column hits with a critical threat.

The PC can take a hit, and will be unconscious and dying. A critical, on the other hand, is virtually guaranteed to kill her PC. In the first room they have done more than get background in.

Is it fun for her or me if I then kill her PC, who, at this level, is not only dead, but probably won't be able to be raised?

Think about it.

Andoran

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GM Lamplighter wrote:
I have the same pet peeve, to the point that I don't allow numbertalk at my table... In terms of hit points, skill bonuses, or any other number. Players should be able to describe their characters in the same terms as they would in real life.

So, do you letr them set up consistent equivalencies, or do you just enforce mumblety g+$%?

And what do you do when the real life descriptions would alreay be a number? "I am 5' 6" tall."

So, is a +9 Diplomacy good, mediocre, or excellent? Or would you just let me describe it as, "I can automatically assist anyone performing Diplomacy."?

Sorry, when a skill number can ligitimately range from -3 to +30 or more, not even counting ACP or encumbvrance, it is hard to force someone to use a non-numeric descriptor withotu a defining table.

Heck, even as a GM, I have to check the spell detect magic to give the proper aura strength reading...

Do Native Outsiders radiate their alignment at 1st level if they are not a Cleric/Paladin?

Andoran ***

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Seth Gipson wrote:
nosig wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:
nosig wrote:
SO, I'll just ask to be excused from this table please. Perhaps you can use the time savings from having one less player the judge needs to do paperwork to get in a few minutes more of the fun stuff - you know, the gaming. I'll move over to the table where the judge uses those minutes to provide a little more story/plot/Role Play or heck even a little more Roll Play.

You are more than welcome to have your own opinions, but holy moly do I think that opinion is ridiculous.

You seem to be making broad accusations here that you somehow think Doug or any GM who would try their best to follow the rules in a similar manner arent worth playing under because you wont have as much fun under their table. Or that they will somehow hurry the game along, so they have more time for the bookkeeping aspect of it.

I cant sto you from feeling this way, and I wouldnt stop you from leaving the table if you wanted, but wow.

I am sure that Doug would do a great job of running the game, and it would be fun, I just would rather have 4 hours of fun than 3.5 hours of fun and a half hour of waiting for him to do paperwork for 5 other players.

But you are assuming that the game will be done in 3.5 hours because he is trying to make time to do the paperwork how he wants to. Perhaps the scenario is just short. Perhaps the party bypassed an encounter or two with solid tactics or Diplomacy? There are all kinds of things can influence the amount of time it takes to complete a scenario.

Stating you simply would prefer to have X hours of fun so you cant sit at GM Y's table is insulting not just to the particular GM, but to GMs in general.

Seth, what he is saying is that he would rather play the game, with the full alloted time, rather than have to worry that a GM is either going to be rushing the party through encounters to finish early, or have to call the game before the end, because he needs that last 20-30 minutes to do paperwork, rather than letting the game play at its own pace.

Would you rather play, say, The Blakros Matrimony in 3.5 hours, with a GM who is also making some of the players' play in a distracted fashion while they try to finish up his required paperwork before the end of the game, or have a full 4 hours time to RP that scenario, with all the players fully involved?

As with nosig, I would probably go looking for a table focused on playing the scenario, rather than focused on post-game paperwork during the game.

Andoran

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We have a variety of Paladins locally, yesterday we had the Seelah pregen being used at our table, while the other table's GM is one of the folks locally who runs a Paladin.

As an online player/GM, I see a bunch of Paladins in the online games, usually in mid-to-high-tier tables.

Locally, we do have some Wizards. I have one in my stable, another local loves them, but is using PFS to play other types of PCs that he is not as familiar/comfortable with. I have seen other Wizards, and arcane casters of various types, around our tables.

A lot of experienced gamers, in my experience, tend to use PFS as a testing grounds for PCs of types they don't normally use. That's how I do it, myself. My area of preference, for example, is ranged fighters, but I think I only have about 4 of them in my stable of PFS PCs, but I also have 4 sorcerers, 1 wizard, 2 maguses, 1 rogue, a couple of trip/disarm builds, 1 bard, and a couple of GM credit blobs in the wings...

Andoran ***

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Year of the Decemvirate

In which much is revealed, with the return of <redacted>, and his ascension, for real, into membership in the Decemvirate.

Time to schmooze the fun girl <redacted> again, as we pass through her garden. Again.

Oh, well, maybe we can actually bring back the ship this time...

Andoran ***

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Negative levels are one of the few permanent negatives that won't get your PC marked as dead, so you can take your time removing them.

Note, however, that your future parties may not be happy with you, as you will be more fragile, and provide less benefit, to a party you are part of due to the penalties.

Removing a permanent negative level takes a casting of Restorarion, and I believe that the casting cost is either 1,280 gp or 4 PP apiece. Note that, during the course of the normal PFS adventure, you won't be able to get both done, as you have to wait a week between castings for this effect.

Between scenarios, you can get both done before your next adventure, due to the indefinite time between scenarios.

Andoran

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Quote:
A witch's familiar begins play storing all of the 0-level witch spells plus three 1st-level spells of the witch's choice. The witch also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to her Intelligence modifier to store in her familiar. At each new witch level, she adds two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new witch level) to her familiar. A witch can also add additional spells to her familiar through a special ritual (see sidebar).

That is under Familiar in the Witch entry from the APG.

Andoran ***

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nosig wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Don't forget the level of Alchemist, so you can make 'em cheap yourself.
...dammit, he IS an Alchemist, so I should have been using that...
just make sure his craft alchemy is good enough... yeah, I've seen an Alchemist with no ranks in Craft Alchemy...

Sorry, after running Accursed Halls online on Saturday, I also ran Black Waters FtF on Sunday.

We had an alchemist/ragechemist at the table.
Sat there, as the GM, watching him fail rolls, because his Alchemy was +7, and he wants to make things with DC 25s.

Andoran ***

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Mike Bohlmann wrote:
The players arrive with no high physical damage or spell damage characters, none of them carries oil of bless weapon, and there's an encounter with all DR 10/good or cold iron creatures plus DR 10/good or cold iron incorporeal creatures.

Your PCs are working their way through the dungeon, had no serious trouble with the wight, but only have a PC with a negative to his Strength, and therefore to his melee touch attacks, who can use a wand of CLW, and that is the only weapon the group has against the Shadow.

Andoran ***

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I think there is another option, although it is a little odd and limited:

Ebony Fly figurine, and there is a feat that allows its use as an AC-like companion, I think the feat is in Classic Treasures Revisited, and I think it may be PFS legal.

Andoran ***

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...and there are 7 other players there, and you are the only other person, besides the GM, who has any sort of PFS game prepped.

Thank Desna for a hotspot, and that I keep my Paizo PDFs on my Google drive, and I have access to the drive on my iPad...

And the players at my table were willing to let me send them the chronicles later...

Andoran ***

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Jason Wu wrote:

You know how you can pay 5 PP for a corpse recovery?

Ever wonder who gets the job of recovering those bodies?

Yeah. Today, that's you.

-j

Been there, done that. Just this past Sunday, actually.

And, since there were several bodies of late Pathfinders we recovered, we were all wishing that we got the PP for the recoveries paid to us, in addition to the normal PP for the scenario.

And found out some more background on <redacted>, and got a <redacted> boon that took two chronicle sheets to cover.

Andoran ***

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You are the GM, the game is Accursed Halls, you have three players, running a gunslinger, a cleric (who chose the archetype that can't channel to harm undead), and a rogue, and they take Valeros as the iconic...

Andoran ***

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You sit down at a table, and your Str 12 fighter is the heavy damage dealer...

Andoran ***

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TorKa wrote:
Also remember that Faction traits require having a book to back them.

As long as you remember that that book is the free Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play (currently v5.0), and is part of the Core Assumptions...

Andoran ***

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127) I will do my best to leave those nasty creatures alive but enslaved, as they are usually much nastier as living being than as undead minions.

general:
I have seen at least two undead encounters, with different base creatures, where the base creature is CR 8, but the undead template used lowers its CR to 5. And makes it a much, much easier creature.

Lower hp, loses almost all of its special abilities, usually a slightly higher AC, but, in general that 3 CR drop is probably understated.

Andoran

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For the arrow, just buy Durable arrows, from the Elves of Golarion book, since they are not destroyed on a hit.

Would Silence be an imbuable spell for an Arcane Archer?

Andoran ***

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Had something like that on Sunday, but it was more, "I levled up my PC, now I can't see where the XP that was supposed to level him came from..."

Turns out the player forgot that a module was worth 3 XP instead of 1 XP, and had only entered it once in Hero Lab.

Andoran ***

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111) I shall include among my minions some that use natural weapons or IUS, and some that fly, swim or squirm....

Andoran ***

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78) If I am an arcane spellcaster, I will have Spectral Hand, Greater Invisbility, True Strike and various melee touch spells memorized.

Who says I have to get near you to really wreck your day?

Spoiler:
The wizard PC in my Dragon's Demand game is going to town with Spectral Hand and Chill Touch, I think it is. Le sigh.

Andoran ***

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True Strike might be worth it, just on its own. Not to mention that I don't think arcane spell failure would apply to using a wand of Shield, for instance...

Andoran ***

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Walter Sheppard wrote:
What they all said. It also means that paladins can easily use a wand of cure light wounds at level 1, which is great.

So can a Ranger, by the way. CLW is a 2nd level spell for Rangers, but that doesn't affect wand use.

Note that this only applies if your Paladin or Ranger did not take an archetype that removes spell casting.

Andoran ***

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Not as a GM credit, but I think the quote is from an older copy of the GtPFSOP, the current language is just a "1st level PC" with no reference to new, any more.

Beside sthe "too many chronicles for the level" application, there were two scenarios which had, for a limited time, a special allowance for applying them to a PC too high a level to play them as GM credit, and those were the final Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge scenarios.

Andoran ***

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Swiftbrook wrote:
Swiftbrook wrote:

But let’s look at the numbers:

50 Weapon Blanch (Ghost Salt), arrows: 1,002.5 gp
50 Weapon Blanch (Ghost Salt), +1 arrows: 3,302.5 gp
50 Ghost Touch, +1 arrows: 8,302.5 gp

OK, who would purchase the Ghost Touch arrows? Remember, I can purchase the Weapon Blanch arrows in lots of 10, not 50.

So, why isn't this overpowered?

Even with the "Custom Order" PFS boon ....
10 Weapon Blanch (Ghost Salt), arrows: 200.5 gp
10 Ghost Touch, +1 arrows: 1,660.5 gp

In fact, without the Custom Order boon I can just purchase 20 Weapon Blanch (Ghost Salt) arrows for 401 gp and not have to worry about PP and saving 8,302.5 gp for 50 Ghost Touch arrows. Being an archer can be expensive as is with all the different kinds of ammunition you need. No archer is going to spend the gold on the Ghost Touch weapon enhancement.

You have a non-magical item that is at least 8 times better than it's magical equivalent (when using a +1 bow).

Side Note: If you changed the rules and let Ghost Touch be placed on masterwork arrows without the need for the base +1 enhancement, then 50 Ghost Touch arrows would cost 2,302.5 gp. Then the Weapon Blanch (Ghost Salt) arrows would only be twice as good as Ghost Touch arrows. Not a bad house rule but not in the PFS cards.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges, really, for cost effectiveness.

Compare blanched arrows to enchanted melee weapons, and look at the break-even points.

How many times can you use a +1 ghost touch melee weapon to attack? A lot more than 50 times.

How many times can you use 10 ghost salted arrows to attack? 10 times.

How many times can you use +1 ghost touch arrows to attack, if your GM even allows you to make arrows ghost touch? 50 times.

Weapon blanches reduce, but do not eliminate, the cost differential between melee weapon users and ranged weapon users. The cost ratio still seems in favor of the melee type, not the ranged type.

Spoiler:
And I won't go into how irritating I find incorporeal creatures with DR10/unusual are to both GM and player.

The major problem with incorporeal creatures is that they just cannot stand up to anyone who uses a weapon that deals full damage to them, because their hit points are, generally, scaled to account for taking 50% of the damage from an attack, or, worse yet, for -10 off of 50% of an attack.

That last can rapidly add up to no damage, even from a well-built PC who deals a ton of damage, because you have to do more than 21 points of damage in a single attack to do any damage to it. Can we say irritating?

Andoran ***

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I don't tend to start an ITS, other than for consumables and PP purchases, until the PC hits second level, and can no longer use the 1st level retraining rules.

Andoran ***

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andreww wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
The Oracle -whom is the only source of healing- is a Dwarf, also he has the highest charisma at 14, so he is also "the face" of the group:)
I thought PFS handed out mandatory happy sticks to everyone on reaching their first 2PP? Or at least mandatory icky devil sticks to the Wizards and Sorcerers?

I wish.

You sit at the table with your Magus, and realize that your PC is the only one at the table who has a happy stick, and is also the only one with any ability to try and use it.

+5 UMD, no IH wands, only my PC's CLW wand, I think our table consisted of a "real" PC fighter, an iconic Ezren, an iconic Merisiel, and an iconic Valeros, my Magus, and another "real" PC of some sort who didn't have any spells.

I kept wishing for Kyra, Harsk, Lem, anyone with CLW on their spell list. Especially since I only got 7 successes off before the inevitable 1, got Held in one fight, and was unconscious before the end. I know I mentioned my CLW potion, but no one ever used it on me. Mission: Failed!

Andoran ***

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manekochan wrote:
The Fox wrote:


Edit: here is the FAQ
Trip: When a prone character stands up and provokes an attack of opportunity, can I use that attack to trip the character again?

No. The attack of opportunity is triggered before the action that triggered it is resolved. In this case, the target is still prone when the attack of opportunity occurs (and you get the normal bonuses when making such an attack). Since the trip combat maneuver does not prevent the target's action, the target then stands up.

—Jason Bulmahn, 08/13/10

That's great to know! Thank you. ^^ I'll have to let my DM know as this has happened many many times (though none recently).

However, I still attack from the ground when an AofO would put me back under 0 on HP again. (As in, the reason I'm on the ground is not from a trip but from being knocked unconscious.)

Sure, you can't trip-lock someone, but that doesn't prevent the:

Trip, target is prone. (At higher levels, this can include an AoO which can include th edisarm, so prone and no weapon).
Target stands on their turn, AoO to disarm or just play whack-a-mole on them.
If disarmed, you get an AoO to trip them when they try to pick up their weapon, or just play whack-a-mole on them.

Not a trip-lock, but close enough, since, even if they are vertical at the end of their turn, you can trip 'em again at the start of yours.

Eventually, they run out of hit points, and stop trying to stand up again.

Andoran

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wraithstrike wrote:
For me it too high or too low should be compared to how much effort it took to get there, not just your level, and don't worry somewhere around level 10 monsters get really difficult to use combat maneuvers against them. Enjoy it while you can.

Note that this is affected by certain campaign parameters. I suspect Skull & Shackles, being pirate-based, is probably going more into high level humanoids than general monsters at high level. If so, you get the trip (and disarm) stuff for a long time.

Just make sure you aren't running a one-trick pony, so that you can still participate/provide usefulness, even in encounters where tripping is not an option.

Andoran ***

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Kelly Youngblood wrote:
... your magus with a wand of Infernal Healing is the party healer.

... your magus with a wand of cure light wounds is the party healer.

Spoiler:
Unfortunately true. My magus, UMD of +5 or +7 at the time, is the only spellcaster at the table, except maybe for an Ezren, and is the only PC with any sort of healing available. Yes, one CLW wand. Got that 1 after 7 successes.

Andoran ***

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In addition, Seekers of Secrets also has the information on most of the flawed and cracked Ioun stones, for cheap, minor bonuses.

Andoran ***

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You are playing a 7-11, the Succubus just cast her Dominate, and the target is the plate armored, tower shield using, high Con Fighter who dump-stated Wisdom (+1 Will save, maybe, at level 8)

Spoiler:
Gods, I wish I was joking about that one.

His feats all made him the target of most of the attacks against the succubus, and then he pulls out his elemental gems....

And, despite all the advise (everyone else at the table, unanimously, including the GM) about getting a clear spindle Ioun stone and a wayfinder, he spends his money replenishing his elemental gems.

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Netopalis wrote:

Given that the main purpose of this question has been answered, I'll continue the derail.

DM stands for Dungeon Master. GM stands for Game Master. Not all adventures contain dungeons. Therefore, GM is the more appropriate term.

Then agaion, not all dungeons are underground, since people have been calling Master of the Fallen Fortress a classic dungeon crawl for some reason...

Andoran

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@Nefreet: Could you TWF with two one-handed weapons?
If you have extra hands, could you fight with two one-handed weapons held in extra hands for Str-and-a-half damage?

@Andrew: I think you are misinterpreting the MWF rule, which is just that TWF and MWF cannot be used together. Since vestigial arm won't let you wield extra weapons for extra attacks, MWF wouldn't apply, since it is only for getting more than 2 different attacks with different weapons before iteratives get involved.

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You know, I see two different issues here, and one of them is blind prejudice, and people who should know better ignoring game mechanics to make ridiculous statements.

Those people are basically saying that if your class and Int buy do not give you 35 skill points per level, you should get massively boned by the scenarios.

There is no build that will do that. Not even the Int-maxed protege PC who got (illegally) both faction ending boons. Assuming this illegal build, plus the 5 point book, and a +6 Int item, and all level bonuses to Int, you get only a 38 Int at level 20, and that is only 14 skill points, plus FCB, plus Human bonus, for 16 skill points per level at 20.

A more typical build is going to be something like a 10 Int fighter, who spends his FCB for either hit points or CMD against Disarm and Sunder. 2 sp from class, 1 (maybe) from human. 2 skill points per level.

Almost everyone recommends putting a point in Swim and Climb, since, without them, you can die. Well, there goes first level.

Second level, you can spend them on other skills. Yay! Class skills, so at least you get to a useful number, or cross-class, where you get a +1 for a knowledge. Ooo. You can roll it, and, on average, get an 11. Main advantage is that you can get higher than a DC 10 since you are trained.

Meh. It does not taker much to find yourself in a party with skillz, just not knowledge skills. My Oracle has high Diplomacy and Perception, and moderate Heal and Spellcraft. What does he give up for those cross-class knowledge skills?

How about that nice, healy, Cleric with two skill points? Heal, Spellcraft (or not), Knowledge Religion, Diplomacy, Swim (after all, he is wearing medium armor, so he will sink like a rock without it), Sense Motive, Perception...

How about this, fairly well-balanced party?
Ninja
Oracle
Fighter
Monk

Maybe the Ninja gets a few knowledges, after his class-recommended skills, like Stealth, Acrobatics, Climb, Sleight of Hand, UMD, Perception, Disable Device, etc.
Oracle? He has 5 skill points in this build, not much to spare.
Fighter? 2 sp, Int 10, so where to get more skill points?
Monk? Heh. Not a highly skilled class.

Just played with this party a couple of weeks ago. No knowledge, outside metagaming, of any of thew critters encountered. Had some scary moments because of that.

What happens when your Knowledge-bot rolls a 1, so his Knowledge Creature is a 9? Meh.

The other issue is that no one seems to remember that it states, explicitly, in the Guide to PFS OP, that you can hire someone outside of combat, to assist on knowledges, but that you cannot hire anyone to accompany you into a dangerous environment.

Andoran

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Drake Brimstone wrote:

I bit of a Necro post, but this just got linked to me so I thought I'd read it. After reading it there is a bit of a problem with that logic.

"As a spell of range touch" does in fact change the range descriptor.

It is changing the range to Touch for purposes of casting on an AC instead of a range of "Personal."

I am willing to accept the ruling of it not working in PFS if that is the final decision.

For me, it has no bearing on the way I've been playing with my ACs as I've only ever used the Reach Metamagic rod for Shield Companion which starts out with a short range. The only character I have where it might come up is my Halfling Sorcerer but he will usually be on his AC anyway so he doesn't need it to go beyond touch.

Remember, though, the spell is a spell with range personal or you, not range touch, it just allows you to apply the spell to your AC as though it was you when you are within reach of your AC.

It is an attempt to describe an effect within game without adding a whole new concept for a very limited set of spells.

If they had done it as a whole new concept, instead of using existing spell concepts, it would read something like this:

"You can cast a personal/you spell on your animal companion as long as it is within your reach. Note that this does not make the spell range touch, it only allows you to transfer the effect of a personal spell to your AC when you cast it if the AC is within touch of you. This does not allow you to later thransfer said spell effects to the AC from yourself, even if there is duration left for the cast you had placed upon yourself."

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Mike Tuholski wrote:
@kinevon: It does open up a lot of possibilities, that's for sure. You've come up with a few interesting ideas I hadn't thought of, but I wouldn't necessarily label it a can of worms just yet. By that I mean: what's the harm of a fighter with a wayfinder, a dull grey ioun stone, and ranks in spellcraft running around with a spellbook? If that's what the fighter wants to spend their money and skill ranks on, I say go for it. It really doesn't offer anything to them except that it's interesting that he is able to do it and when he runs into a wizard he can say, "Oh cool, I've been collecting spells myself! Don't really know how to cast them, but here, have a look." (At least a bard or sorcerer could more properly take advantage of the Mnemonic Vestment by being able to make their own spellbook.)

Heh. I can see it now:

Lore Warden Fighter, trained in Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana), among other skills (LWs are skill heavy, for Fighters, from Scholastic and a tendency to have a higher Int than standard), a set of dull grey Ioun stones, including at least one Ioun torch (that should count as dull grey), and a Wayfinder with the ability to cast Detect Magic at will...

Note: That wayfinder exists, it is one of the PP purchases in the Pathfinder Society Primer, IIRC. Get it with Heritage, I think it is, and you can still get the Light at will, as well.

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Cheliax Sidetrack:
My assessment of Cheliax is that, n my experience, the characterization of Zarta Dralneen is something I would rather not deal with, especially if I am GMing somewhere there are children around, or even playing at my table. I run at a local game store, which has both Magic and Pokemon leagues, so children will be present. I have also had at least one 10 year old at my table, playing with his dad.

I am, myself, over 50, and I find those Chelaxian faction mission briefings that I had out extremely ... unsettling, and am happy that they are pretty much gone.

I also find that, in our area, most Chelaxian and Taldor players act like jerks when they are running those PCs, although they tend to be much nicer when using their PCs from other factions. YMMV.

As to Cheliax itself, it is, indeed, a nation aligned with Devils, Evil outsiders, who have no interest in the welfare of non-Outsiders, other than what any contract they are bound by has committed them to.

I made a factual statement, that Varian Jeggare, according to Dave Gross's stories, is old enough to have been raised in pre-Asmodeus Cheliax, and is not an Asmodeus worshipper, nor very happy with the state of his nation.

Please do NOT commit me to statements I have never made, that all Chelaxians are evil, when I have never stated that. I will, however, state that my PFS experiences with Chelaxians PCs is, at best, that they don't wave their allegiance around like a red flag. Some do, and usually in ways that make my play experience less pleasant.

I have, from a different direction, and possibly limited to only a few PCs, a similar experience with players RPing their Taldor PCs as over-the-top arrogant.

Sczarni PCs, in my experience, and probably because of how the faction is portrayed, tend to be a lot lower key. Maybe because the faction is Rogue-oriented, but keeping a low profile seems to be my experience with Sczarni PCs. YMMV.

Wealth balance issues:
Since PFS is a High Fantasy campaign, given that that is, indeed, the name of the Point Buy level we use for it, PFS is going to be a high magic campaign, which the Fame rules emulate fairly well.

IIRC, your proposed PP purchase cost ratio, at 1 PP per 1,000 gp price increment, or fraction thereof, would not equate very well with actual wealth by level magic guidelines, and would, as an example, leave an 11th level PC, with an 82,000 gp WbL, with, at most, 66,000 gp worth of magical items, including consumables. That leaves an imbalance of 16,000 gp in mundane equipment and non-magical items.

Just something to think about.

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Ryan:
I played LG, which had a system for various rules items, including magical ones, with three levels to it:
Open - nothing but the money/build/source material required to use it. Similar to, but a bit more extensive than, the Always Available ite, list in PFS.
Closed - Never available to PCs, but, sometimes, with permission, available for use by an NPC in a scenario. Usually similar to things on the banned list in PFS.
Other - these were the things that were not open access, but not banned. Access to them required their being on an Adventure Record (and those rules, for use of them, could get pretty bizarre, too), and frequently had location and/or quantity limitations. And, because of the limitations on access, made a lot of character builds just plain not work.

So, you are now 9th level, and have never run across a Headband of Vast Intellect of any sort on your travels, and you are a Wizard. Ugly, bad, and just not much fun, in my experience.

Did you know that there were like 5 to 9 pages (or was it more?) in the last Guide to Living Greyhawk Organized Play document, just listing by name, various items that were of X status?

Feats:
Open:
Combat Reflexes
Combat Expertise
Power Attack
.
.
.

Closed:
Spell Perfection
Spell Focus
.
.
.

Non-Open, Non-Closed:
Leadership
Zen Archery
.
.
.

Not even source, just the barebones type and name. Page after page of it. Always made me think of my Accounting textbooks, for some reason.

And, of course, even for the Open stuff, you then got to spend time and effort tracking down the source, so you could look it up, see if it was applicable to the PC you were working on, and make a copy of the page to include with the PC if you chose it. Ugh.


One PFS rule I want to change? Bring back the Undead Lord archetype for Clerics.

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Joanna, I also started in Season 0, and factions were, and remained through Season 4, a pain in my tail, as both a player and a GM.

As a player, I have a plethora of PCs (currently 19 registered, probably 20 once I receive an Undine boon). Most of them are Andoran, because, quite frankly, out of a bad lot, Andoran is the least objectionable. I have a Szcarni, mainly for the amusement of the patchwork that it is part of, and a couple or three Grand Lodge.

Also as a player, in past seasons, I was definitely offput by all the "Is it in THIS room?" stuff going on all the time. "Are we there, yet?" stuff seriously detracted from my enjoyment, and made it difficult for me to remember what the heck we were actually supposed to be doing at such-and-so place.

Add in incoherent faction missions, hard-to-hear GMs, and you get players asking, "What are we supposed to be doing here?" Meh.

As a GM, you get players who are only looking for their faction mission stuff, and not really paying attention to the actual Pathfinder Society mission. Heck, the other day I GMed an early season scenario, gave out the faction missions, and, even though they are purely fluff, still got the, "Is it in HERE?" questions. Definitely lowered my enjoyment of the game, and made me feel like the players were all over the place instead of dealing with the mission.

Factions often feel like you have to worship Pholtus, I think his name was. The new versions of faction preparedness seems to bve good, as long as the players have read the letters from their faction heads so they know what their faction is interested in.

Without that, it is like an "experimental" session I got involved in, where the GM gave some of us random, unidentified faction mission notes, not our own, without any clue as to what faction it was for. That wasn't much fun, either. I know that my second PP relies on the other members of my faction here, and I cannot really do anything to help them. Made me feel like a mushroom. In the closet, all wet, in the dark.

My vote? Eliminate factions entirely, or make them minor RP things, not a central concern. Where they have been in the past was too visible, and taking too much focus away from the goal of the game, which is what the VC asked our party to do, not what <redacted> wants to add to her BDSM wardrobe...

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Just make sure that youy take that rank in Craft (Alchemy), and buy a gunsmith kit (15 gp, IIRC), and you get the discounted prices.

Still a bit steep, compared to arrows, but not as crippling/bad as some would have you think.

Main thing to remember about a gunslinger is that they are not quite as durable as a regular fighterm because of their armor limitations, but tyhey have a good BAB, and good hp.

But, yes, tactical thinking is paramount, especially if you wind up playing up at any point.

Last time I checked, I still had a seat available for a level one module I am running on Saturday. Check out the posts on the Pathfinder Society Online Collective. It is a dangerous module, but I don't go out of my way to kill anyone beyond what the normal danger level provides.

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David Bowles wrote:
My loreworden/rogue only pops on the Mask of Stony Demeanors when she expects a fight. It's for improved feint shenanigans.

"Why is that Lore Warden lying on the ground?"

"She feinted."

Andoran

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By the way, for those complaining about this PC being flat footed, and a deadweight, most of the suggestions will wind up with giving him a fairly high flatfooted AC, same as his full AC. Yes, hbis touch AC will suck, but that is true for most builds.

So, high AC, bonus to Perception. Didn't he say something about it being a cleric, so high Wisdom, so even higher Percepotion.

I can juust see the game. He always sees the trap, but is too slow to stop his teammates from setting them off. Until they slow down and start listening to him. Heh.

Andoran

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James, while the Tower Shield can run you lower on its own, just go for having as much encumbrance as possible. That gives, if you can hit heavy, and you will once you can buy stuff (You carry how many Tanglefoot Bags?), a -6 ot intiative, IIRC.

So heavy encumbrance, 7 Dex, that Ioun stone, and a Tower Shield you aren't proficient in...

Is that the one that gives a bonus to Perception with a penalty to Initiative?

You might also check the Pathfinder Society Primer to see if any of the new Ioun stones or their resonances, might fit, too.

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My opinions:

Mike has said that we should use Common Sense, when appropriate.

IMO, for thisa situation, Common Sense says to correct the mistake(s) made, the simplest way possible.

There are two ways to correct the mistake:
1) Pay the difference. Easy, simple, only issue is if you want to "retcon" it so the extra money was paid at the time of purchase, as it should have been, and the PC didn't have that kind of money available. In that case, I would go to simple option 2.

2) Sell the item back. Gain back all the money originally spent on it, it was an honest mistake, and, overall, for mithral as a weapon material, whether the weapon was mithral or steel will have made little difference. You have bigger bobbles involved for legal but major rebuilds, like all the former Synthesist Summoners and Undead Lord Clerics.

Most important thing, IMO, is to work with the player to resolve the issue to both their satisfaction and making their character PFS legal ASAP. Don't penalize the player for an honest mistake.

Spoiler:
My Undead Lord Cleric is still in Limbo, due to the fact that, whatever I rebuild him into, he will be stuck with it forever and ever. No chance to test drive the new build, just an all-or-nothing jump.

And it looks like I am soon going to have another PC that is going to get hit with some rules changes that make his build seriously different than I thought it was. There is a big thread going on, where the level 6 power for the archetype (Sound Striker Bard) he has is being discussed, with the PDT, and a new version will, eventually, result. That new version is going to be different than the version that exists now, even with the ETV that infects it now. Oy.

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No, the secondary condition has nothing to do with the faction-related goals which are where the cherry picking comes from.

I disagree that removing/making the season 0-4 faction missions optional is a bad thing.

I believe it has been stated that the free-for-all faction missions cause multiple bad things to happen with the scenarios, including dilution of player attention, forecasting of important plot points, and general, "Say WTF?!" moments.

And, IMO, they do not help define any sport of character, other than the not-so-rare (since most of my PCs are in that class) Zarta-haters. And, to be honest, with multiple factions, multiplke PCs and a lot of gamesa played, I do not remember a time when a factionm mission did much more than make me want to get it done and over with, and that the other factions' missions just made me want to puke, sometimes. "I do this for Taldor!" Really? Why?

Most of those "already published faction missions" are a waste pof paper, from my experience as both player and GM. They either distract form the actual game you are supposed to be playing, or give away important plot points for free, or have the PCs act in ways that are either not conducive to playing as a party, or set up unintended PvP situations.

Spoiler:
I believe you have two faction missions in one scenario, where one faction wants the PCs to talk with one of the enemies, while another faction mission is, plainly, just kill him.

I have played in one where my faction mission was to kill the BBEG, long before the BBEG was ever introduced to the PCs. Heck, the scenario ended before I found that we had completed my faction mission, because the BNBEG's name was never given to us. Meh, just meh.

Overall, as a GM and player, my response to Season 0-4 faction missions has always benn, "Why?" They have always been a distraction from what our PCs are supposed to be, Pathfinders, and caused some pretty weird actions along the way.

What I have seen of the SSC document for Seasons 0-4 is that the conditions are fairly well telegraphed, without breaking the scenario, if you pay attention to the Pathfinder mission.

Andoran

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If you can talkk the GM into allowing the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, the Lore Warden archetype for Fighter might be fairly close.

Andoran

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Let him attack your PC first, so the other players can see that you didn't start it.

Then, if he doesn't, somehow, one-shot you, move away from him, start with a run, if possible, 4x or 5x speed in a straight line, and end by using Stealth to hide.

Between your probable Stealth skill as a Ninja, and the distance penalties to Perception (-1 per 10'), the odds favor him not seeing where you went.

Most ranged touch spells, at least the spammable ones, are fairly limited in range.

You can plink away at him from hiding, without even needing your Invisible Trick and ki points, due to distance, and using natural cover. Buildings, trees, walls, etc.

Won't be sneak attack, but you can probably have a lot more arrows then he has healing spells available.

And, as mentioned, since your PC is a part of the City Guard, you don't even need to attack him yourself, just go, with the evidence of his attack (your damaged, bleeding body) to your Guard Captain, and point out the other PC as the one who assaulted a member of the City Guard.

That, as the saying goes, would be that. Unless, somehow, he is both capable of and decides that destroying the entire City Guard is a worthwhile wendeavor, but by that time, the GM should have stepped in in a more serious fashion, and dealt with the issue.

Also, as mentioned, smoke sticks give concealment, both for the 20% miss chance, and they allow you to hide, which won't be negated by Invisibility Purge. Tanglefoot bags can make his life difficult. Thunderstones, since they can cause a spell failure chance.

If you can get someone to cast Deeper Darkness, that would negate his darkvision.

But, overall, stealth, cover and concealment are where you want to focus, as they offer a lot of options that Invisibility Purge and darkness won't negate.

Also, even if he doesn't sleep, he has to spend an uninterupted hour in devotions to regain his spellcasting ability each day. Disrupting that will hurt his ability to threaten you. Not sure if Inquisitors require it at a specific time, like the Cleric does, but it wouldn't hurt to look that up, either.

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GM Triumph is: Everyone enjoying themselves, even (or especially?) the guy whose PC died (on those rare occasions when it happens).

Recent triumph: PCs actually wound up talking with some kobolds, which, I think, may have saved one or more of the PCs' lives, since they were warned of the nasty trap, instead of finding it with their bodies.

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