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Ilthuliak

jlighter's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 413 posts (1,523 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. 2 wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters. 21 aliases.

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Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

475. They were the first two people I saw upon walking naked out of the horse stall.

476. They poked me with a stick while I was sleeping.

477. One of them was victim of the same cursed item that transported me across the continent, except it made him change species.

478. We share a mutual hatred of all things cute and fluffy.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Personally, I would say make it a move action to remove the backpack, free action to drop it. Much like donning or removing the armored coat. The motions to remove a backpack would be roughly analogous to removing a heavy coat, so a move action makes sense. I can see justifying a standard action, but that seems like it might unnecessarily penalize the player. Another move action to set it down carefully if you're worried about breaking anything inside, though, or free action to just drop it.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Howie23 is entirely right, but there's another extremely common scenario that this also makes ridiculous. Any spellcaster who gains a Familiar and uses the Valet Familiar archetype can take advantage of this and only have to burn a feat slot on the caster. Get a rat or similarly-sized familiar, keep it in the backpack, and technically this feat triggers and you have a caster who will never suffer an AoO. RAI, absolutely not. RAW, yup.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Retroactive 390: Because the numbers needed to line up, and nobody else was playing a healer.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Given that most conscript soldiers are going to be low-level warriors:

  • Foot Soldier = Warrior 1
  • Caravan Guard = Fighter 2
  • Guard = Warrior 3
  • Guard Officer = Fighter 4
  • Cavalry = Fighter 6
  • Watch Captain = Fighter 7

Being an even match for 10 of them shouldn't be hard. They're going to be Fighter 2 or Warrior 3 at best, with average HP and stats, and low-level gear. A single Cavalry or Watch Captain shouldn't have a difficult time fighting against them, even if his gear is matched to the upper level conscripts (average NPC Fighter 2-3 gear). If your conscripts are all Warrior 1s, then taking them out shouldn't require more than a Fighter 4 or Fighter 5. Especially considering that Sardaukar have high-end Imperial gear.

To take that out, you have the Fremen: skilled warriors who fight using guile, guerrilla tactics, superior knowledge of the terrain and superior conditioning. For that, you could probably do it with the following:

Ranger 4, Rogue 3

  • Endurance
  • Favored Terrain (desert)
  • Favored Enemy (Sardaukar)
  • Combat Style (choice)
  • Hunter's Bond (probably companions, with some taking bonded Sandworm)
  • Sneak Attack 2d6
  • Evasion
  • Trap Sense
  • Rogue Talent (choice)

Given the right circumstances, that build will probably wipe the floor with an equally armed Fighter 7, especially if you do them in groups for flank-buddies. In a straight-up fight, they may not do as well, but the Fremen didn't often engage in straight-up fights. If you want them to completely overpower the Sardaukar, increase the Ranger levels.

Just a thought experiment.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

372. Because we were told we needed hobbies, and we each individually came to one of the strangest conclusions on what constituted a hobby (namely, gathering in one another's basements and eating twizzlers while slaying monsters with dice).
373. We happened to gather around the same Wanted/Bounty/Reward-Offered poster.
374. I failed my save against her/his seduction check.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Preface: I do not run PFS, and it's been some time since I played a PFS game.

As far as taking 10 and Knowledge checks:

1) I've always tended to think that the Bardic ability allows them to take 10 even when distracted, as with the many things that grant a Swim speed, the accompanying +8 Swim bonus, and the ability to take 10 even when distracted.

2) You can take 10 out of combat when you're in a situation where you can actually access your memory, (nothing in the Bardic ability strictly contradicts this, especially if interpreted as in 1)

3) But in a combat situation you only have enough time for a very quick (1-2 seconds tops) memory scan, and you may not remember the crucial detail in that instant. Doesn't mean the character doesn't, at some level, know it, but that they can't figure it out at the time. I've definitely done this to my players, and had it happen as a player myself.

As far as characters failing a Knowledge check and then justifying having the Knowledge anyway, I tend to disallow things like that. The whole, "I failed my Knowledge check but my character totally read this one text which had a paragraph describing this one head honcho of a small village in the boondocks so I totally know how he is," doesn't really fly to me. As far as failing the Know(religion) check to know a ritual for your own deity, I might grant a circumstance bonus on the check, but if you fail you don't remember at the time. Given enough time to think about it later (or even if there's in-game reason to justify a T10), then you can probably remember something.

Knowing a spell is a tricky scenario. I can sort of understand handwaving them identifying spells that they know/can already prepare. But if my Wizard throws up an illusion of a Prismatic Wall, you might think you know what it is, but you won't know if you don't pass the check. Totally need to use that trick now. Likewise, an illusory Fireball spell. It might look like a bead of fire, and it might appear that it will burst into a large ball of fire, but if you didn't recognize the specific gestures or words used (make the check), then you don't know if it's an illusion or the real thing until it blows up in your face.

For my 2cp.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I don't see why your GM would deny it. You do have to pay extra for a heavy horse, so it's not like there isn't a cost involved from the get-go. The only problem would be if you specifically have to chose one that qualifies as a druid animal companion, in which case you use the baseline horse animal companion stats.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I'm with Blackbloodtroll. Racial Heritage feat doesn't work to gain Aasimar status since they are Outsiders (native). Same reason that Enlarge Person and a handful of other spells don't work on an Aasimar character. Go with Option 1, and see if you can make your horse a heavy horse or a heavy warhorse. That gives you a natural boost to Str, and other things.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Ask your GM if, since you didn't really get a chance to play the character, you can have it re-introduced under a different name, and maybe with one or two details changed. Or ask if it would be possible to get a deity-revival-favor that you then have to work off (excellent RP opportunity).

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

As ammunition for the multiple-spellbooks camp, I offer these sample spellbooks from Ultimate Magic. Note: after level 10, all but one spell-/formula-book states either that it uses multiple volumes, or is the size of multiple volumes (implying that one can buy extra large books). Abridged for length.

Ultimate Magic wrote:

Arctic Call (Level 11 Evoker)

Fine vellum sheets fill these two well-worn books.

Insights of Far-Seeing Taernis (Level 12 Conjurer)
These two books are part of a set held together with a leather strap.

Quest Eternal (Level 13 Diviner)
Stuffed between the pages of these two well-worn volumes are all manner of riddles, tidbits of lore, and fragments of maps.

Grandfather's Legacy (Level 14 Necromancer)
This pair of lexicons is covered in excellently preserved human skin, with an intricate lace of fingerbones forming the locks on the cover.

Chymist's Guidebook (Level 15 Alchemist)
The pages of this formula book are carefully varnished. (one exception)

Guardian Grimoire (Level 15 Abjurer)
These three well-made books are covered with runes of warding against outsiders and undead.

Mysteries of Shadow (Level 16 Illusionist)
Each volume of this three-book set is written in gold ink on jet- black paper.

Master Books of Rul Thaven (Level 17 Diviner)
This trio of books is bound in leather as black as a starless night, clasped together with gleaming silver.

Manual of Binding (Level 18 Conjurer)
The three volumes of this set are bound in black sharkskin, the spells inscribed in purple ink on fine paper.

Library of the Dancer Of Skins (Level 19 Universalist)
This quartet of books is held together by a shining silver strand wound around the four tomes and tied in an intricate knot.

The Formulae of Master Gebr (Level 20 Alchemist)
These four cloth-bound books are neatly printed — as with a printing press ...

Mastery of Word and Thought (Level 20 Enchanter)
This massive tome is the size of four normal spellbooks, bound in leather as hard as plate armor ...

And before anybody dismisses these as options for treasure, let me also quote the beginning of the section that says they can be used by PCs for quick, ready-built spellbooks. Emphasis mine.

Ultimate Magic wrote:

Each spellbook or formula book is a unique reflection of the personality and capabilities of its creator. Many of these tomes contain more than just spells, such as notes on the caster’s other research, personal diaries, naturalist sketches, or even political treatises. Some contain preparation rituals, each of which grants a boon—or sometimes a hindrance—to spellcasters who use the book to prepare their spells.

The sample spellbooks and formula books below each list a description of the book, information on the caster’s specialty school and oppositional schools (if any), the book’s spells, and its preparation ritual (if any). Some books also contain precautions against prying eyes.
Descriptions, protections, preparation rituals, and spell content can be mixed and matched as desired from different books. Higher-level books can easily serve for lower-level casters—just drop the spell levels that aren’t applicable and remove lower-level spells as desired. Similarly, if you desire longer books, combine two together or add spells or formulae of your choice to the desired levels. These books also work as spellbooks and formula books for new characters. Just copy the list, hand it to the player, and go.

The idea of Wizards (Magi, Alchemists) being limited to one spellbook is a bit unreasonable. If that were the case, then they would never have real access to higher level spells. The singular uses of the word Spellbook throughout the Core rules indicate things like:

  • Can prepare the spell out of the spellbook it is recorded in (implication being a spell must be entirely recorded in one book)
  • Can copy a spell into a spellbook the Wizard has written
  • Starts with a spellbook, as in the Wizard gets a freebie book with his starting spells (note that this is the only Core class that gets an item for free at first level).
  • Can duplicate his own spellbook (what purpose could this have aside from useful backup copies?)

  • Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Darkflame, I disagree with you. True, nowhere does Spellstrike say you can deliver the additional charges of Frostbite, but it also does not say you can't do it that way. The ability says that you can deliver a "touch" range spell as part of a melee weapon attack. It goes on to clarify that you can also, in place of the free touch attack granted by the spell upon casting, make a free melee weapon attack as part of the casting.

    SRD wrote:
    Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

    The round progression would look something like this (2nd level Magus):

    1. Declare Spell Combat
    2. Cast Frostbite
    3. 5-foot-step into range.
    4. Make either a free melee touch attack OR a free weapon attack. -2 Spell Combat penalty
    5. Make normal round attack, choosing whether or not to deal spell-charge damage if it hits (use of the word can implies a choice). -2 Spell Combat Penalty

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human

    Likewise, ready to go when you are. I'll put together a posting profile for Arnor in the next day or so.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Grick, it's the same thing that you were saying before. You could make the free attack with Chill Touch in the round it was cast, but all subsequent touches have to function off regular attack actions as per the held charge rule. Held charges don't get a free attack in the round after they were cast because that free attack is part of the action of casting the spell.

    It's like what you were describing with the
    a) prep a shocking grasp
    b) next round declare spell-combat
    c) make melee attack first and discharge shocking grasp
    d) cast a second spell and make any touch attacks as normal

    In the case of Chill Touch/Frostbite (level 3, for ease's sake), you get:

    a) cast chill touch and make free touch attack
    b) next round, declare spell combat
    c) make normal melee attack first, discharge second charge of Chill Touch
    d) cast a second spell, lost charge 3 of Chill Touch

    It's not going:

    a) cast chill touch and make free touch attack and discharge Chill Touch 1
    b) next round, make free touch attack and discharge Chill Touch 2
    c) declare spell combat, make normal melee attack and discharge Chill Touch 3
    d) cast a second spell, etc.

    Edit: Ninjaed by target.

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human

    Head-stuff and the hospital is always crappy. Take it easy getting better. You'll be in our minds and prayers.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber
    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    kmal2t wrote:
    There is nothing masculine about gaming. You roll dice and play make believe. On the scale of masculinity most gamers are at near the bottom of the rung although I wouldn't doubt there are plenty that are delusional enough to think otherwise about themselves and gaming.

    This is also a false claim. I've known a few people who, on the scale of masculinity (an arbitrary scale if ever I saw one), scored reasonably high and were gamers. And they still enjoyed coming out to game and have fun trying to tackle the evil Sorceress, and then trying to get something to change our own caster back into herself following a baleful polymorph.

    I've gamed with people near the bottom, and people closer to the top. The bulk of people I've gamed with who, for whatever reason, require ranking on the scale of masculinity score pretty much across the middle region.

    You do make a few points. Gaming is not inherently masculine, and being a gamer does not make somebody as masculine as an NFL player. That said, being an NFL player doesn't really make somebody masculine, either. It's not the NFL or the game the makes somebody masculine. Both activities are a bit more neutral on the scale of masculinity. The players make it a masculine (or not) activity. The exception, of course, being synchronized underwater sweater-knitting. A more masculine activity I never did see.

    Gaming doesn't need to be masculine or feminine to be fun. And sensitivity to players' needs (not women and players, just any and all players) is something that is necessary in any gaming group. That's what threads like, "What do women like in gaming," are trying to accomplish. Men are, in some ways, stupid animals. Some of us recognize this, and attempt to correct the deficiency by inquiring after information that will help us avoid stupid mistakes, like making an insensitive personal comment or treating a female gamer differently because we think she can't take what the boys can. For the record, I tend to disbelieve that female gamers are in any way incapable of competing toe-to-toe with male gamers with regards to game content, raunchiness, or any other aspect of a game. YMMV

    Keep this in mind: you may have the universe figured out, but maybe the rest of us don't have the details down perfectly yet. When there's information that we need, we ask questions. Don't fault us for being less perfect than you. Try educating instead of denigrating.

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human

    Fine for me. I won't be able to post for a few hours after that, but I should be able to get something going by 11am PST.

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human

    Okay. I can roll with Arnor. And yes, I know he's called a mage even though he's a Cleric. It's a common misconception because of combination of the journal he carries around, making notes about the history and magic, etc, and the fact that he's a caster. He hasn't bothered to correct said misconception.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    "This is going to be legend! Wait for it, wait for it. Boom!"

    "Come at me, bro."

    And from a Jade Regent campaign I ran for my brother and his friends:

    Me: "You're going into the swamp that reduced you almost to death with only 1 HP?"

    Player 1: "Yup."

    *one TPK later*

    Player 2: "We got wiped out by one injured halfling. One. Injured. Halfling."

    (They were still level 1 and trying to find Goblins in the swamp)

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human

    Very abbreviated Moai backstory:

    Moai Cleric Backstory:
    Arnor is a young Moai, but he's known for as long as he can remember that his purpose is to try to restore the knowledge lost during the Great Sleep. He's been gifted with some abilities as far as spell-casting to help with that purpose, as well as the knowledge necessary to try and recover any lost magic items of Moai manufacture. To that end, he prays to the ancient ones for the spells to grant him the power to find what he seeks, and travels the land seeking the lost knowledge magic of the Moai.

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human

    Two options for what I can play. I'm more inclined toward the Spirit Binder, but I'm happy to play either one. Still working on the Moai Cleric's backstory.

    Human Spirit Binder:
    Doran, the Desparate
    Male human spirit binder 1
    CN medium humanoid (human)
    Init +1; Senses darkvision 15 ft., Perception +3
    Aura evil
    DEFENSE
    AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +1 shield)
    HP 15 (1d10+5)
    Fort +6, Ref +1, Will +1
    Weakness light sensitivity
    OFFENSE
    Speed 30 ft.
    Melee longsword +2 (1d8+1/19-20) or dagger +2 (1d4+1/19-20)
    Ranged shortbow +3 (1d6/x3)
    Special Abilities manifestation
    Embodied Spirit hungry father (blood, darkness)
    Manifestations exsanguinate (DC 14)
    STATISTICS
    Str 12, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 13
    Base Atk +1; CMB +2, CMD 14
    Feats Intimidating Prowess, Stealthy
    Traits Bandit, Killer
    Skills Climb +2, Escape Artist +1, Intimidate +6, Perception +3, Stealth +4, Survival +3
    Languages Common, Undercommon
    SQ embodiment, spirit binding (hungry father [blood, darkness]), spirit tongue
    Gear chain shirt, longsword, buckler, shortbow with 20 arrows, dagger, backpack, water skin, whetstone, flint and tinder, rations (6), 24 gp

    Doran was born a child of the streets, and he lived a hard life when he was young. The streets are tough on a child, and only the tough survive. Doran was one such. He survived by being tough, by being sneaky, and by being able to cow the other kids when he needed to. One thing about Doran that scared the others, though: Doran could talk to ghosts. He was able to see spirits as long as he could remember. One ghost in particular did a lot to shape who Doran became. Doran called it the Hungry Father. The Father came to him when he was five or so, and it was the Father who first drove Doran to kill Stiv, the leader of his gang. After that, the other kids were all afraid of Doran, because Stiv had been 12 when he died.

    As he grew, Doran tried to resist some of the influences of the Father. The Father was always thirsty for blood, and encouraged Doran to kill often. Several useful skills also came from the Father: sneaking, climbing, and knowing how to hunt. Forage and intimidation kept Doran alive during his youth. Unfortunately for Doran, he wasn't quite good enough at it to avoid detection forever. He was chased from town after town by local authorities.

    Doran has since grown to adulthood. He lives by his wits and by his sword. The Hungry Father always tries to get Doran to satisfy the hunger for blood, but Doran does everything he can to resist. His motives are primarily his own survival, with an occasional placating gesture for the Father.

    Moai Cleric:
    Arnor, Earthmage
    Male moai Cleric 1
    LN Medium humanoid (moai)
    Init -1; Senses darkvision 90 ft., Perception +8
    Aura law
    DEFENSE
    AC 16, touch 9, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, -1 Dex, +1 natural armor, +2 shield)
    HP 9 (1d8+1)
    Fort +3, Ref -1, Will +5; -1 vs. sleep
    OFFENSE
    Spd 20 ft.
    Melee quarterstaff +1 (1d6+1/1d6+1) or light hammer +1 (1d6+1)
    Ranged light hammer -1 (1d6+1)
    Special Attacks channel energy (1d6 DC 13, 5/day)
    Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +7)
    1st–comprehend languages(D), protection from chaos, shield of faith
    0 (at will) – detect magic, guidance, stabilize
    Domains Artifice, Memory
    STATISTICS
    Str 12, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 18, Cha 14
    Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 10
    Feats Selective Channel
    Traits Focused Mind, Sacred Conduit
    Skills Knowledge (history) +5, Perception +8, Spellcraft +5, Use Magic Device +6
    Languages Common, Terran, Undercommon
    SQ artificer's touch, recall
    Gear scale mail, heavy steel shield, quarterstaff, light hammers (5), silver holy symbol (alchemic earth-sign), backpack, waterskin, rations (6 days), journal, inkpen, ink, candles (5), flint and steel, silk rope (50 ft.), 10 gp

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Okay. I'll double-check the math. Almost done putting together the Moai Cleric, as well. Just needs backstory.

    Crunch:
    Arnor, Earthmage
    Male moai Cleric 1
    LN Medium humanoid (moai)
    Init -1; Senses darkvision 90 ft., Perception +8
    Aura law
    DEFENSE
    AC 16, touch 9, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, -1 Dex, +1 natural armor, +2 shield)
    HP 9 (1d8+1)
    Fort +3, Ref -1, Will +5; -1 vs. sleep
    OFFENSE
    Spd 20 ft.
    Melee quarterstaff +1 (1d6+1/1d6+1) or light hammer +1 (1d6+1)
    Ranged light hammer -1 (1d6+1)
    Special Attacks channel energy (1d6 DC 13, 5/day)
    Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +7)
    1st–comprehend languages(D), protection from chaos, shield of faith
    0 (at will) – detect magic, guidance, stabilize
    Domains Artifice, Memory
    STATISTICS
    Str 12, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 18, Cha 14
    Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 10
    Feats Selective Channel
    Traits Focused Mind, Sacred Conduit
    Skills Knowledge (history) +5, Perception +8, Spellcraft +5, Use Magic Device +6
    Languages Common, Terran, Undercommon
    SQ artificer's touch, recall
    Gear scale mail, heavy steel shield, quarterstaff, light hammers (5), silver holy symbol (alchemic earth-sign), backpack, waterskin, rations (6 days), journal, inkpen, ink, candles (5), flint and steel, silk rope (50 ft.), 10 gp

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Doran, Human Spirit Binder:
    Doran, the Desparate
    Male human spirit binder 1
    CN medium humanoid (human)
    Init +1; Senses darkvision 15 ft., Perception +3
    Aura evil # ft.
    DEFENSE
    AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +1 shield)
    HP 15 (1d10+5)
    Fort +6, Ref +1, Will +1
    Weakness light sensitivity
    OFFENSE
    Speed 30 ft.
    Melee longsword +2 (1d8+1/19-20) or dagger +2 (1d4+1/19-20)
    Ranged shortbow +3 (1d6/x3)
    Special Abilities manifestation
    Embodied Spirit hungry father (blood, darkness)
    Manifestations exsanguinate (DC 14)
    STATISTICS
    Str 12, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 13
    Base Atk +1; CMB +2, CMD 14
    Feats Intimidating Prowess, Stealthy
    Traits Bandit, Killer
    Skills Climb +2, Escape Artist +1, Intimidate +6, Perception +3, Stealth +4, Survival +3
    Languages Common, Undercommon
    SQ embodiment, spirit binding (hungry father [blood, darkness]), spirit tongue
    Gear chain shirt, longsword, buckler, shortbow with 20 arrows, dagger, backpack, water skin, whetstone, flint and tinder, rations (6), 24 gp

    Doran was born a child of the streets, and he lived a hard life when he was young. The streets are tough on a child, and only the tough survive. Doran was one such. He survived by being tough, by being sneaky, and by being able to cow the other kids when he needed to. One thing about Doran that scared the others, though: Doran could talk to ghosts. He was able to see spirits as long as he could remember. One ghost in particular did a lot to shape who Doran became. Doran called it the Hungry Father. The Father came to him when he was five or so, and it was the Father who first drove Doran to kill Stiv, the leader of his gang. After that, the other kids were all afraid of Doran, because Stiv had been 12 when he died.

    As he grew, Doran tried to resist some of the influences of the Father. The Father was always thirsty for blood, and encouraged Doran to kill often. Several useful skills also came from the Father: sneaking, climbing, and knowing how to hunt. Forage and intimidation kept Doran alive during his youth. Unfortunately for Doran, he wasn't quite good enough at it to avoid detection forever. He was chased from town after town by local authorities.

    Doran has since grown to adulthood. He lives by his wits and by his sword. The Hungry Father always tries to get Doran to satisfy the hunger for blood, but Doran does everything he can to resist. His motives are primarily his own survival, with an occasional placating gesture for the Father.

    I wasn't sure what math to use for the Aura distance. I'm guessing it's 5 or 10 ft? I also didn't know what starting gold math to use, so I just modified the gear for the iconic character that you provided. I also thought the Hungry Father would be an interesting one to play with as far as its personality. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how this one plays out.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    I have a copy of Unearthed Arcana. I can copy the data down here in a spoiler later. It should be available online, too.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber
    Zenergy wrote:
    jlighter wrote:

    According to the tabs, the discussion and gameplay threads aren't connected yet. Haven't run a PBP since before they changed things around, so not sure how to fix that.

    I'll have my character options hashed together sometime today. I'll put both options together just to see what the party needs.

    Hard refresh the page, it happened to me too.

    Still not working. Also tried going in from the outside, and looking for it in the thread list. Not showing up there. Restart the browser?

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    According to the tabs, the discussion and gameplay threads aren't connected yet. Haven't run a PBP since before they changed things around, so not sure how to fix that.

    I'll have my character options hashed together sometime today. I'll put both options together just to see what the party needs.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    I'd be interested in taking a core race through one of the two test classes to see how it plays against something else. Maybe a human, just for simplicity's sake? Alternately, I'd be game to play a Maoi Cleric.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    I also forgot Goon. And perhaps some of each title go into particular schools, like Goon, Thug, and Grunt all being ranks within one school. What would the different fields be for each title?

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human

    I change my avatar once in a while. Before the dragon, it was a ghoul. Don't remember what it was before that. I've gone through a few, though.

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human

    So out of curiosity, where's everybody posting from? I'm in the SF Bay Area, so Pacific Standard Time.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Presumably both. If you damage the foe who harmed you, it goes away. If you don't ever damage him, it goes away when combat ends. I'd wonder about the potential for stacking, though, if you take damage from multiple sources.

    Edit: Ninjaed by the boss.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    So I've had this idea for a while of a gag to run in-game. A University for associates of villains and heroes, with degrees available according to desired rank. The problem I'm running into is classifying different ranks of subordinate/associate. I was thinking that each one might be a different sub-school within the university, with the associated rivalries and such, and each one holds a very clear place in the hierarchy. Kinda like how in older large estates, there was a very clear hierarchy among the servant body, with each level answering to the level above until you reached the head butler or some such. Different ranks that I'm thinking of are:

    • thug
    • grunt
    • henchman
    • minion
    • cohort
    • mook
    • Igor
    • lieutenant
    • acolyte
    • follower

    Any thoughts on organization? Igor and lieutenant obviously pan out to higher ranks, but what about the underlings?

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    I'm with Grimcleaver. I don't have space to add anything to the campaign I'm running right now, but I'd be happy to Playtest if you're running something.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Throwing in with a Suli Bard.

    Nelossë

    Stats:
    Female Suli bard 1
    CG Medium outsider (native)
    Init +5, Senses low-light vision; Perception -1
    DEFENSE
    AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +1 Dex, +1 shield)
    HP 8 (1d8)
    Fort +0, Ref +3, Will +1
    Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5
    OFFENSE
    Speed 30 ft.
    Melee longsword +2 (1d8+2/19-20)
    Ranged shortbow +1 (1d6/x3)
    Bard Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +5)
    1st (2/day)––grease DC 15, silent image DC 15
    0 (at will)–– detect magic, ghost sound DC 14, message, prestidigitation
    Special Attacks elemental assault
    TACTICS
    Before Combat If possible, Nelossë tries to prevent combat using a combination of silent image and ghost sound or grease. If it doesn't work, then she tries to arrange an advantageous situation.
    During Combat Nelossë casts grease on the first round of combat and draws her longsword. On the second round of combat, she'll inspire courage if her allies seem to need some assistance. Otherwise, she'll help create flanking situations and use combat maneuvers to disable foes.
    Morale If alone, Nelossë retreats if reduced below 5 HP. If her close companions are in danger, Nelossë fights to the death.
    STATISTICS
    Str 14, Dex 13, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 18
    Base Atk +0; CMB +2, CMD 13
    Traits Armor Expert, Failed Winter Witch Apprentice, Focused Mind
    Feats Improved Initiative
    Skills Diplomacy +8, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (local) +5, Linguistics +5, Perform (acting) +8, Spellcraft +5, Stealth +4, Use Magic Device +8
    Languages Aquan, Common, Ignan, Skald, Sylvan
    SQ bardic knowledge, bardic performance (countersong, distract, fascinate, inspire courage +1)
    Combat Gear acid (2), alchemist's fire (2), Gear Mwk chain shirt, Buckler, longsword, shortbow (30 arrows, 5 blunt arrows, and 2 smoke arrows), daggers (2), belt pouch (5 pieces chalk, 1 vial ink, inkpen, 1sp, 5 cp), backpack (sack, journal, 50 ft. silk rope), bandolier (acid, alchemist's fire, daggers), cold-weather gear

    Horse:
    Featherfoot
    N Large animal
    Init +2, Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +6
    DEFENSE
    AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 9 (+2 Dex, -1 size)
    HP 15 (2d8+6)
    Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +1
    OFFENSE
    Speed 50 ft.
    Melee 2 hooves -2 (1d4+1)
    Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
    STATISTICS
    Str 16, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 7
    Base Atk +1; CMB +5, CMD 17 (21 vs. trip)
    Feats Endurance, Run (B)
    Skills Perception +6
    SQ docile
    Gear Riding saddle, saddlebags (bedroll, waterskin, 5 days rations)

    Appearance:
    Nelossë stands almost 6' tall, and has rather brawny arms for a woman. She wears her longsword proudly at her side, and her chain shirt is always polished brightly. Under her armor, she wears practical riding leathers and stout boots. She also wears a cloak suited for colder climes. Her hair is worn long and braided, and tends toward the platinum side of blonde. Her eyes are a bright blue, with an occasional glint of something fiery behind them.

    Personality:
    Nelossë tends to be very friendly, and always willing to lend a hand. Her experience with the coldness attitude of the Witches towards her failure to master their magic means she tries very hard to be accepted. When faced with a challenge, she attacks it with single-minded intensity and she does her best to accomplish her task.

    Background:
    Nelossë was one of many children born in the villages outside Irrisen. Many such children are born with the potential to be Winter Witches, and Nelossë was one such child. Before her second year, she had been taken to be tried as an apprentice Witch. Unfortunately for her, she didn't demonstrate any ability while there. For eight years, she tried and tried to achieve some measure of magical ability, but she never progressed beyond learning a few cantrips.

    At age 10, Nelossë left trying to be a Winter Witch. Nelossë had developed into quite a strong young woman. She knew she wouldn't be accepted back in her home village, so she apprenticed with the City Guard of Whitethrone. She excelled with sword and buckler, and her ability to devote herself entirely to the task at hand served her well when it came to trying to training and sparring. She always made herself wear the heaviest armor they offered, and she quickly became accustomed to moving despite the weight.

    When she was 14, Nelossë was sent on a training exercise with two other recruits and an older member of the guard. Their task was to try and drive off a herd of mammoths that had wandered to near to Whitethrone. Unfortunately, it turned out that it wasn't a herd of wild mammoths. The herd belonged to one of the tribes of savages, and they didn't appreciate the attempt to drive them off. The attack was devastating, and Nelossë was seriously injured before managing to crawl away and hide. She managed to return to Whitethrone, and as she recuperated, she discovered that her slight ability with cantrips had expanded, and she knew a few spells she had never been able to master before. Nothing fancy, but potentially useful.

    Ultimately, the City Guard decided that she wasn't what they wanted, and she packed her few things and traveled south. She did some piece-work as a caravan guard and sometime entertainer during her journey, and after a long time traveling and guarding, she decided to travel for herself. She left the city she had come to, and made her way south. She wound up at the small village of Heldren.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    If you're still accepting applications, I'd like to dot this one. I'll take a look at the Player's Guide and see about what kind of character to build. Leaning toward a Wizard at present, but there are a few things I've been wanting to try.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    There are other arcane users on the list. Two bards and a Magus are on the list. They're just pulling double-duty as brains and brawn, while my Wizard submission suffers from not fulfilling alternate roles.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    So most recent revision of the list:

    Brawn:
    Edward Sobel – Human Barbarian
    Kilara – Tiefling Barbarian
    Jaime Noone - Human Fighter (tactician)
    Pezmerga – Tiefling Fighter

    Brains:
    Crellan – Human Rogue
    bi0philia – Human Rogue
    Durvin Tamish – Halfling Bard (Sea Singer)
    Waynemarkstaubs – Human Rogue
    Nimon – Human Inquisitor
    Lorelei – Half-Elf Bard

    Divine:
    Twilsemail – Grippli Cleric of Besmara
    Justin – Human Oracle of Waves
    Lahza – Half-Orc Cleric
    Kor – Human Cleric

    Arcane:
    Jlighter – Aasimar Wizard (Back-up: Goblin Rogue)
    Red Ramage – Half-Orc Magus (Back-up: Siege Mage)

    Interested Parties:
    Mark Sweetman – Interest noted
    Drew Mitchell 598 - Interest noted
    Daynen - Interest noted
    RainyDayNinja – Interest Noted
    Boram Jorgunson – Interest Noted
    Arknight – Interest Noted

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    I can shift my Wizard to focus on seige weapons.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Didn't we have a magus or two in there?

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Spend it. Eithe we'll be able to retrieve it, or we'll have to acquire new gear. There has to be some way for us to do things, though, like cast spells. I'd hate if they took away my spellbook and I had to find a new one. :)

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Something that I've done for PBPs I've run in the past is set up a GoogleDocs (or site of choice) option, create maps in MapTools, then screenshot the maps and upload them to the site. That way, people can reference the image as they try to decide what they want to do. You can enable grid coordinates, so it's easy to say, "Lexibean moves to square B23, traveling around the area threatened by Customs Agent 1."

    As far as running PBP combat, I always asked people to post a primary option, with one or two back-up options in case the primary option was no longer available.

    Ex: Brillup takes a step back from Customs Agent 1, pulls out his crossbow, and fires a bolt at the man's stomach. If Lexibean has already dropped him, instead fire at the nearest Customs Agent not engaged in combat. If all Customs Agents are engaged in combat, instead shift and cast Cure Light Wounds on Sarenth.

    My backup character is Gumz Bigtracker, Goblin Rogue.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    A quick look at my character, Sarenth. Emberkin Conjurer (teleportation). I haven't made a character profile page pending approval of character. If we need something different for the group, I can generate something new or grab an old concept character.

    Sarenth Character:
    Sarenth

    Male emberkin wizard 1
    CN Medium outsider (native)
    Init +4, Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +3
    DEFENSE
    AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +2 Dex)
    HP 7 (1d6+1)
    Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +3
    Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
    OFFENSE
    Speed 30 ft.
    Melee staff +0 (1d6/1d6)
    Ranged light crossbow +2 (1d8/19-20)
    Aasimar Spell-LIke Abilities (CL 1st; concentration +5)
    1/day––pyrotechnics (DC 16)
    Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +5)
    1st––burning hands (DC 15), feather fall, mage armor
    0 (at will)––detect magic, light, prestidigitation
    Forbidden Schools enchantment, illusion
    TACTICS
    Before Combat Sarenth tries to cast his mage armor before combat if he can.
    During Combat If he couldn't before combat, Sarenth casts mage armor if safe. Otherwise, he'll use burning hands on nearby opponents, then retreat and use his pyrotechnics spell-like ability to obscure the battlefield (smoke cloud version).
    Morale Sarenth realizes that he can't last long in a fight. If more than one opponent engages him in melee combat, he'll withdraw, preferably using his shift ability to get outside of AoO range. He will fight to the death to protect Skipper.
    STATISTICS
    Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 14
    Base Atk +0; CMB +0, CMD 12
    Traits Besmara's Blessing, Adopted (World Traveler)
    Feats Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (conjuration)
    Skills Diplomacy +7, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (engineering) +8, Knowledge (planes) +10, Perception +3, Profession (sailor) +6, Spellcraft +10
    Languages Common, Celestial, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Polyglot
    SQ arcane bond (rhamphorynchus), empathic link, share spells, shift (5 ft., 7/day), summoner's charm
    Gear light crossbow with 20 bolts, staff, spellbook with average lock (DC 25), spell component pouches (2), 50 ft. silk rope, belt pouch, sewing needle, ink, inkpen, 4sp

    Spellbook:

    1st––burning disarm, burning hands, feather fall, grease, keep watch, mage armor, unseen servant
    0––acid splash, arcane mark, bleed, dancing lights, detect magic, detect poison, disrupt undead, flare, light, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, resistance, spark, touch of fatigue

    Familiar:
    Skipper

    Female Rhamphorynchus familiar 1
    CN Tiny animal
    Init +3; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +6
    DEFENSE
    AC 16, touch 15, flat-footed 13 (+3 Dex, +1 natural, +2 size)
    HP 3 (1 HD)
    Fort +2, Ref +7, Will]/b] +4
    [b]Defensive Abilities
    improved evasion
    OFFENSE
    Speed 10 ft., fly 40 ft. (good)
    Melee bite +5 (1d3-2)
    Space 2-½ ft.; Reach 2-½ ft.
    Special Attacks sudden swoop
    STATISTICS
    Str 6, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 11
    Base Atk +0, CMB +1; CMD 9
    Feats Lightning Reflexes
    Skills Diplomacy +1, Fly +11, Knowledge (arcana) -1, Knowledge (engineering) -1, Knowledge (planes) -1 Perception +6, Profession (sailor) +3, Spellcraft -1, Stealth +11
    SQ arcane bond (Sarenth), share spells, empathic link
    Special Abilities
    If a rhamphorhynchus makes a charge attack while flying, it does not provoke attacks of opportunity when it enters an opponent’s space to make a melee attack. It also gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls with its bite attack when it makes a sudden swoop.

    Backstory:
    Sarenth's place of birth is uncertain. He may have been born aboard a ship, or in Riddleport, or in some other far port. What is known is that he was taken in by a group of Varisian traders who had stopped in Riddleport. They raised him as one of their own, in spite of his odd appearance. They tried to instill good values in him, and they named him Sarenth, hoping he would follow in the footsteps of his father, and become a holy warrior of the faith of the Dawnflower.

    Unfortunately for his family, Sarenth had no aptitude for martial combat. Several times, when attempting to spar with a mock-scimitar, he injured himself and had to spend long days recuperating. Faith held no interest for Sarenth, either, although he tried his hardest to please his adoptive parents. He mouthed the prayers, and tried to worship the Dawnflower in all her glory, but he never felt any connection to her beyond a love of watching the setting sun. Redemption of others seemed like a waste of time, and the whole affair seemed like so much posturing.

    Tragically, Sarenth's adoptive parents died before he reached full maturity. His father died defending the caravan from Shoanti raiders, and his mother died shortly thereafter of a vicious fever that struck the following winter. A history of mischief and trouble-making had earned him few friends among the other members of the caravan, and Sarenth left when next they stopped in a city. He shipped out on a trading galley as a deckhand, and found he greatly enjoyed the life at sea. There was a fulfillment there that he had never felt in the caravan.

    It was here, too, that the good values his family had tried to instill in him met their first real test. The traders were not always the most scrupulous of people, and new bad habits joined the mischievous tendencies and trouble-making habits Sarenth had possessed as a child. His morals became much looser, and while he did maintain a fierce loyalty to his friends, his idea of friendship became harder for other people to meet. The traders vexed him, because he had absorbed a love of honesty and a dislike for pretense and falsehood. This led him to spend more time talking to scholars and in libraries than at taverns when the ship was in port.

    While in Riddleport, he spent a great deal of time at the Cypher Lodge. A couple of the mages there showed him a few cantrips, and he devoured the knowledge. Amused, they showed him some more, and it quickly became apparent that he was a natural for conjuring magic. But the sea called to him, and he returned to his work as a deckhand. He brought with him what he had learned, however, and he purchased a book to copy spells into that he might continue his studies.

    His ship made its way down toward the Shackles, and as the voyage grew longer, Sarenth decided that perhaps it was time to seek something different from life. He quit his job as a deckhand, and went to see what kind of magic he could learn in Port Peril. He learned some things from a couple of jungle mages, and he even managed to attract a small swoop lizard to be his companion. Unfortunately, he next inquired for information at the Formidably Maid.

    Appearance:
    Sarenth stands about five and a half feet tall, and has a very slender build. His hair seems to shift color depending on the light, sometimes appearing a fiery copper color in sunlight, sometimes appearing more silvery in moonlight. His eyes have an iridescent quality to them, and they stand below brows that arch back as if pulling away from his face toward ridges that run along his skull. His clothing is practical for shipboard life, consisting of stout leather pants and a sleeveless blue vest over a loose cotton shirt. He carries his spellbook on a leather strap over one shoulder, and on the other perches a small pterosaur the size of a large cat.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    At the moment, I'm looking at a Peri-Blooded Wizard. Teleportation School, with a Greensting Scorpion familiar. I can change that to fit the group need better. My current second choice is a Human Inquisitor/Cleric, or I can revive an old character for a second run, a Kobold Rogue.

    Peri-Blooded Wizard
    Str: 10
    Dex: 14
    Con: 12
    Int: 16 (+2)
    Wis: 12
    Cha: 12 (+2)

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    I'd love to join in on this one. I'll start putting together a character, and I should be able to get one rough-cut tonight (PST). I'm assuming completely overpowered races (and templates) are a no-go? No Drow Nobles or Svirfneblin or Half-Dragons? :)

    Ability Rolls:
    So I know what I have to work with.

    4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 4, 3) = 11=10
    4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 2, 1) = 13=12
    4d6 ⇒ (5, 3, 2, 4) = 14=12
    4d6 ⇒ (5, 3, 5, 6) = 19=16
    4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 3, 2) = 14=12
    4d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 4, 4) = 16=14

    Think I can work with those.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Hey, all. I'm in a similar boat to Red Ramage. Currently running a Kingmaker, looking for some game-time on the side. I have lots of ideas for characters that I could play, both anti-maxed (Ex: Orc Wizard) and regular-powerful (Ex: Goblin Rogue). I'm currently running a Kingmaker game, so I would probably be a bad candidate for that. I also have the anniversary edition of RotRL, so I may not be a great candidate for that one, but any of the others would be fun, or I'm cool with homebrew. Skull and Shackles looks like an interesting AP, if there's still interest in playing one.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    I have a lot of PDF files for PF, 3.5E, and 4E that are pretty useful for referencing during games. I'm in Oakland, but I'm willing to travel down to San Jose for a game if you guys are still trying to put something together. I have some GM experience in 3.5 and PF, but since I'm currently running a Kingmaker game on Mondays, I'd love to join in as a player.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    Hey. If people here are still looking for a game, I'd love to join in on one. I have a lot of materials I can let the group use. Minis (more coming from Reaper Kickstarter soon-ish), flip-mats, pens, and lots of PDF files on my laptop that can be used for reference in-game. And I have all the APs if somebody wants to run. I've read a few, but I'm pretty good about not metagaming. There are also plenty that I haven't read. I currently run a Kingmaker campaign on Monday nights, so I'd be interested in joining a new campaign as a player if possible. I'm in Oakland, but I can drive to SF or SJ if there's a preferred place for gaming.

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human
    Dzae Shadowalker wrote:
    What was that check for?

    In this case, something for one of the flavor-mechanics of this section of the AP. There will be times when I make various checks for you, depending on circumstances. :)

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Tales, Deluxe Comics Subscriber
    1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

    The Spells Known Hijack:
    To weigh in an alternate position:

    Bloodline spells are not "Spells Known" in the normal sense. They are known spells once they have been learned, but they still don't fall under normal Spells Known then. They're still outside the Spells Known progression.

    Here are two counters to Bloodline Spells being "Spells Known:"

    Dragon Disciple wrote:
    Blood of Dragons: A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. He must choose a dragon type upon gaining his first level in this class and that type must be the same as his sorcerer type. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell’s level.

    This ability expressly states that the Dragon Disciple adds his DD levels to Sorcerer levels to determing "powers gained from his bloodline." Bloodline Spells are a "power gained from his bloodline." Dragon Disciple advances the Draconic Bloodline, and calls that out. Blood of the Dragons makes specific mention of advancing "powers" (Bloodline Powers), and makes mention of the bonus spells gained from a bloodline as not being granted unless the Sorcerer has the appropriate spell-slot. Bloodline Feats are another DD ability.

    Dragon Disciple states that bonus spells are not gained unless certain conditions are met. Implication? Bonus spells are never gained unless a condition is met, namely that something calls out that they are.

    The other counter to Bloodline Spells being Spells Known comes from the Bloodline Description:

    Bloodline wrote:
    At 3rd level, and every two levels thereafter, a sorcerer learns an additional spell, derived from her bloodline. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table 3–15. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.

    Note that the additional (bonus) spells are never referred to as Spells Known. They are "in addition to" the Spells Known, implying that they are separate from it. The way I read that is "in addition to, not part of" Spells Known. Part of why is because they are called out under a separate name (Bloodline Spell), and that they are treated differently than regular Spells Known (no swap at higher levels).

    Based on the above points (PrC doesn't advance Bloodline unless called out as DD; Bloodline Spells separated and distinguished from Spells Known in multiple ways), I'd say that Spells Known refers fairly strictly to the Spells Known tables, not to any "Bonus Spells" gained from another class feature.

    On the subject of the OP's question:

    To the best of my knowledge for PFS purposes, I suspect you're wrong. If a Sorcerer takes a spell at Lvl 1 that is the Lvl 3 Bloodline Spell, he would effectively not learn his Lvl 3 Bloodline Spell. Swapping out later wouldn't let you re-learn it. For a non-PFS game, I'd say you were right. My guess as far as PFS, though, is that you've effectively lost yourself a spell. There isn't an official FAQ response, though.

    Shadow Lodge

    Undead masquerading as Human

    At the moment, there's a chance to roleplay open for people prior to the reading of the will. If everybody wants, we can just fast-forward to that part. If not, characters can chat, get settled, introduce themselves.

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