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 Recent Posts
They didn't "develop a system", they eliminated a table. THAC0 is exactly the combat chart from 1e, only without the chart.
Again, apparently 4e fans aren't making them enough money. I'm not sure that this element that wants "fire and forget" eliminated is, as most people still playing D&D that isn't 4th are still playing with fire and forget wizards, druids and clerics. So your "imo" is basically a projection based on, well, nothing. "If they're going to keep 4e players on board"? I don't think that is much of a concern of theirs really. Y'all have nowhere to go. The GSL eliminated any possibility of a "Pathfinder" for 4e coming from a disenfranchised 3pp, and, frankly, I doubt many 4e players really care about the magic system as much as the vocal whinority here lets on. Most of the people I know that play 4e also play Pathfinder, 3x, and older editions. And they have the books, so they'll probably still play all of them. This isn't going to be 2008 redux. People who didn't like 4e had a place to go for new "what they considered D&D" product. There were options. 4e players might have an alternative magic rule in the new edition. But 5e isn't going to be a continuation, it's going to be an attempt at a reconciliation with all the people who decided to not follow them to 4e. I wish them luck, and, as it will be an "odd" numbered edition, and history follows suit, I might like it. But, really. It's over. The dollar has spoken. 4e lost. Get over it.
Diffan, that's the point you seem to be missing. WotC knows what their numbers are. Apparently, they think enough people don't think like you and it hurts their bottom line. Enough people think things like Vancian magic ARE D&D, and rejected 4e. So, they're going back to the way it used to be, more likely than not. Them's the breaks, the masses have spoken with their wallets.
The brand on the book is of little import if the content between the pages isn't what customers think when they see the name. Funny thing, WotC apparently thinks they made a mistake with 4e. Doesn't matter how much you like 4e, they are done with it, because, apparently, you are not enough to think they should continue making 4e products. Nah, I don't really care if people like or dislike WotC. Has zero bearing on my day to day life. Just pointing out to Diffan that maybe some people at WotC think maybe they overstepped by changing D&D too much from its roots. The labels are all the same (monster names, the stats, some spell names, etc), but the feel of the game, whether you like it or not, is markedly different from earlier iterations, and a decent number of people felt is "wasn't D&D" enough to move on and take their dollars elsewhere. I don't have a negative or positive opinion of 4e, I tried it, it's ok and can be fun sometimes, but I prefer Pathfinder (well, a heavily houseruled version, anyway) and 1e for my D&D style gaming. But a lot of gamers really dislike it. And, frankly, if 4e were as rousing a success as the fans claim it is, 5e (D&DNext or whatever they're calling it) wouldn't be in production right now. WotC is making a business choice, and they're reaching out to the customers they lost. And, unless they are completely incompetent, that must me more people than stayed or are new to the game all together. Putting all mechanics and sacred cows aside, it's obvious WotC sees 4e as a mistake, a failed experiment that did a nice job of creating a huge schism in the D&D community and created a rival that got really big, really fast, and took quite a bit of marketing share. And they want some of that back.
And yet......4E didn't have the same style of Vancian system to which your referring to and (well would you look at that!!) there is that Dungeons and Dragons name on the book! Wow, weird isn't it? Tommy Boy had a nice quote about putting something on a box I think might be relevant here. The brand on the book is of little import if the content between the pages isn't what customers think when they see the name. Funny thing, WotC apparently thinks they made a mistake with 4e. Doesn't matter how much you like 4e, they are done with it, because, apparently, you are not enough to think they should continue making 4e products.
First off can we drop the whole "if you don't like Vancian magic play something else" cop-out. That is what it is. Some posters like Vancian magic and I respct that. Some like me don't respect that to. Nope. Not going to happen. Again, D&D is a game. Invented by Gygax and Arneson. There are elements that make it distinctive from other games. Vancian style spell casting is one. It's pretty obvious to everybody except hard core 4e fans that WotC realizes they dropped the ball big time, since they're not revising 4e, they're scrapping it after the shortest edition run in the history of D&D. One of the biggest "4e isn't D&D" complaints? Getting rid of the iconic spell casting system. So, if the market is saying they want something, and the people who don't like that very iconic aspect of the game want something else, the market wins. So, yeah, no offense, but go play something else. For every person who says the 15 minute adventure does not exist I have run across 9 more that say it does. It slows the game down too much when once the arcane casters run out of spells they have to rest. Speaking for myself having to fire my measly crossbow over and over again well it gets boring. Telling me to play another class is yet another cop-out. Why it does nothing to address the problem. Sorry but I don't subscriobe to the "shut-up and suck it up and play your damn class" mentality. For every person who doesn't see a problem, there are nine that have no clue about resource management and need to be spectacularly uber every round of every combat. Most games when I play my wizard, I rarely come close to running out of spells. I'm not wasting my resources on opponents the martial classes are supposed to be handling for me. I save my mojo for when it is really needed. Maybe understanding a D&D party is a team, all specializing in something, and not always needed in every situation to be successful is too unselfish for some people, but it's how the game was designed to be played pretty much from 1974 until 2008. Stuff about sacred cows Why, you ask? It may have a lot to do with the fact their big move away from the sacred cows failed, and another company stole their mojo. You may have to resign yourself to understanding you are in the minority when it comes to what people think D&D is. Smart companies don't market to the minority of their fan base.
I'll be honest. I'm kind of a "roots" player. The reason I go along with so many of Kirth's houserules is I have a lot of familiarity with more than a few of the '80s rpg systems he steals from. If you look closely enough, there's a lot of Bond 007, Hero System, Rolemaster and AD&D (1e) integrated into the Pf/3x framework. Hell, half the reason I even agreed to meet him in the first place is because of the Vance reference in his nick. I see a lot of people sling the term "Vancian magic" (because, you know, Gygax stole it nearly whole cloth for OD&D/1e), but I doubt 1% have ever actually READ a Jack Vance novel. People dis the iconic D&D magic system with little to no understanding of why it's even in the game in the first place (not saying you do, DH, but I've run across it quite a bit in my thirty three years of gaming), and, frankly, I ignore most of them. Big reason why 4e will never be a game I play. D&D = Vanican magic, and I don;t care if I'm playing 1e, PF, KF or whatever, I want to play D&D. If I wanted to use Shadowrun's system, I'd play Shadowrun (and do, it's my second favorite system). If I want to play D&D, I play 1e or Kirthfinder, for the most part. I'm even in the process of converting my 27 year old 1e campaign to Kirthfinder, because I dig it. Bottom line, if Kirth changed the magic system to something else, I'd probably not be as enthusiastic about the game (but still amazingly enthusiastic about the company) as I am. I'm old school. I am proud of it.
Nena - 99 Luftballons
Shonen Knife - Buttercup
So, yeah, modifying the game people actually know might go better than suggesting a new game. Or, you know, the people who don't like something can do what every gamer has done since the beginning of time: house rule it. Why should Paizo or WotC change the game for a vocal minority?
I have no idea what my schedule is going to look like for a while. When I get comfortable and the boss realizes I'm a beast (she's kind of figuring it out already, people are telling her how effing awesome I am), I may have some veto power for Sunday shifts, but, for now, I'm low man on the totem pole.
A dnd character race isn't worthy of being called a play style. If a DM takes out three races from their games, they have removed no play styles. If you need a race to play a character concept (the "misunderstood hero" and "drunk gold lover" hardly need a racial stereotype to work), I feel for you.
The only thing I'd like to see with 2e is a really big bonfire... ;-)
TSR was run by idiots. There is no argument here. Lorraine Williams was a horrible, horrible thing to happen to the hobby, as were the Blumes. Sorry. Think they weren't all you want, but it doesn't change the fact they ran the biggest thing going into the ground.
Dude, if you're going to run a 1e campaign, please count me in. Also, I may be able to help you out with some modules. You already know people I already play with get first seat dibs :-) And, we'll talk about modules next time we meet, I have some, and some old Dungeon mags, so I have a decent amount of material, but I mostly to original stuff. I use the modules for set pieces, mostly.
Well, they're offering something I have, so I can pass on buying (now, if they weren't updated covers and were the original DCS and Dave Trampier covers, with the exact same binding as the originals...). But, seems like someone over there got their heads out of their asses. Easier to hear what the non-sycophants (i.e. people that stopped being customers) may want to spend a little coin on. Plus, maybe this will make it easier for me to revive my old 1e campaign, so that would be cool also. Now, if they'd just reprint all of the original modules as well...
I just want to know if they're going to require you to cut off your breast as to not interfere with plying a bow in combat..
This was from long, long ago, so I'm sure you know that Marilyn Manson is a talentless hack who should burn in the lowest depths of hell, and that this is a Patti Cover. :-) (and yes, MM was just trying to be offensive on purpose)
The Cure - Play With Me
You know what would be nice? Not having to give someone a heads up. We're all adults. If you can't filter yourself, the best thing to do is not post at all.
Let me clue you in. I. Don't. Care. You crap in here, it stinks and I don't like it. I come to this thread to get away from people who can't deal with their issues and force them down other's throats. I come in here to have fun with people I consider friends, and who have proven as much repeatedly. I owe more than a few posters in her for helping me out in tough times and helping me preserve my sanity. They're good people. And they deserve better than to have to see you crap in our clubhouse. You don't like being called "pretentious"? Don't be pretentious then. You don't like having your nationality "rubbed in your face"? Don't say things that display your distaste for your nationality. Because, you know, some of us like it here, and may even have a little pride for the place, and WE don't like having your malcontent opinions rubbed in OUR faces. We have fun here. We like fun people to post here. You're not fun, you're a buzzkill that tries to hard and makes inappropriate comments. You make me not want to post here sometimes, and that pissed me off. So, troll, you win. You pissed me off. Happy?
You really need to find somewhere else to post. We are all friends in this thread, have been for a long time. You're don't really fit our small slice of the Paizo universe.
Oh, and "England" isn't playing anything right now. They play Holland at the end of February.
Furthermore, the word "soccer" is of English origin, it comes from an abbreviation of "Football Association" (i.e. "assoc.").
ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!Football or Yankee football? If England is playing I most certainly am ready. Seriously? Please. You're American. You speak American English. Keep the pretentious "I say "football not soccer" crap to yourself.
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