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houstonderek's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 9,189 posts (9,491 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 9 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

thejeff wrote:
Adjule wrote:
Spook205 said wrote:
As I stated, people have this deluded and wrongheaded belief that positive change only occurs in the 'progressive' or ever changing direction. Sometimes you have to say 'we changed things, it didn't work out, let's go back.'

Too bad that will never happen. Like you said, people seem to have it in their head that the only good things are the new and different, and going back to something means you are doing it wrong. Which is funny, since Pathfinder wasn't the "new and different" edition around 2008-2009 and was the "old and bad" with a slightly new paintjob (like 1 shade darker red painted over the slightly lighter red).

But going back to something older and simpler? How dare you!

I'm not sure that's a general rule at all. Resistance to any change is pretty common, certainly. Nostalgia for the good old days is also plenty common.

Reaction to 5E seems to be much more positive than to 4E, which seems to point towards people being more willing to move back towards an older style system than forward to something completely different. OTOH, it could just be a different attitude today than then. Or 5E could just be a "better" game than 4E.

Well, I guess, considering that a lot of feedback from the old school guys (me included) seems to be saying it's like 3e if 3e had been based on 2e, rather than a reworking of the system, the nostalgia angle is confirmed to my satisfaction.

I think the attitude might just be 3x burnout after fourteen years. I think that's another reason 3x took off like it did. Even with Skills and Powers, 2e was a continuation of the same basic game play from 1979 (the first year AD&D was complete) until 3.0. People were looking for something different, and 3x seemed shiny and bright. The new car smell wore off, and, even with the Pathfinder rebuild, the chassis is still long in the tooth. 5e is reminiscent of something old while still being fresh and different enough to tickle the need for new and shiny.

I won't comment on the relative worth of 4e compared to 5e. I didn't play enough 4e to really get into the nitty gritty of the system. But, I did like 5e better at first glance. I like my sacred cows, what can I say. And, I think that might be a difference as well. Enough people made it clear that those sacred cows were what made the game "D&D" to them that it split the base, with 4e being the smaller part of the split. The whole 4e thing really ticked a lot of people off, mostly for reasons that really had nothing to do with the game itself. They avoided that kind of thing this time around.

WotC, by restoring them, positioned 5e well to take advantage of some 3.x fatigue, Pathfinder tying itself to Golarion and PFS enough to take a little of the old school "D&D" feel away, and older players who want to play, and make their own stuff, but don't have the time commitment (due to families, careers, etc) to give PF/3x a proper prepping.

Liberty's Edge

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Considering that DeBlassio is rapidly losing the respect of the NYPD with his public statements about the situation, I'd say the whole conspiracy theory things is about as ridiculous a statement I've heard in a while. He was already on shaky ground with them based on his statements when he was running for the office. There is no love between the mayor's office and the police union.

NY is not going to be a fun place while they deal with the logical outcome of twenty years of gentrification and, even before 9/11, a seriously concentrated assault on crime by NYPD, with, as I'm sure FreeholdDM can tell you, a metric assload of misconduct, abuse, and outright murder. The blowback is coming at a time we're already sensitive to police excess, so I would almost feel bad for the NYPD, if it weren't for them bringing much of this on themselves for the way they've acted the last twenty years.

Liberty's Edge

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JoeJ wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Pathfinder is nerfed, the Megaversal system has much larger numbers. Puny Pathfinder characters don't even have a single point of SDC.
Gotta love Palladium. Making every other game system in existence seem weak and sickly since 1981.

Going the other direction would be DC Adventures, which nerfed everything so hard that Superman only has a Str of 19! (Although it's 23 for lifting and moving things.)

The Mayfair DC Heroes game handled scaling Superman's strength to, say, Batman's well. They used a logarithmic scale rather than a linear one, so Superman's 50 strength was magnitudes more powerful than Batman's 2.

Liberty's Edge

Kthulhu wrote:
Pathfinder is nerfed, the Megaversal system has much larger numbers. Puny Pathfinder characters don't even have a single point of SDC.

Gotta love Palladium. Making every other game system in existence seem weak and sickly since 1981.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Grey Lensman wrote:
That's ANY purposes Iron. Asset seizure laws are pretty close to the top of the list for things that have gone horribly wrong in this country.

The moment they allowed any civil law in the criminal law arena, and started allowing preponderance of the evidence, which, before the late '80s to now iteration of the War on Drugs, was strictly prohibited for criminal proceedings by the USSC, things got ugly. "Preponderance of the evidence" is a crock the way the U.S. and state courts implement it. And it is amazing, looking at old case law and USSC decisions, how much appointees by both parties always seem to, when it matters, side with the government's right to change the rules at will over the public's right to have the rules mean what precedent says they do.

Any time I (ok, with my past maybe not I, but "you") can withdraw $20k from an account to purchase a vehicle, have a receipt for the cash from the bank, have adequate financial means and reasonable lifestyle within those means to have easily saved that much cash, and, if a cop pulls me over and takes it, claiming no one but a drug dealer would have that much cash and I have to hire a lawyer to file a zillion motions and whatnot for the small possibility I MIGHT get it back, the system is so out of whack that people are stupid for putting up with it for so long.

The "war on drugs" did way more to erode our civil liberties than anything after 9/11, people just didn't notice it as much because "drugs are bad, m'kay?".

Liberty's Edge

Kthulhu wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
I suspect 5th has some form of WBL as well, or everything is just that nerfed. I did look at the DMG, and even for a level 30 monster, the recommended AC was 19. So maybe things are just that nerfed.
It is not nerfed, it is a different f~&*ing system.

At this point I'm going with a spot of trolling fun. No one is that obtuse. ;-)

Liberty's Edge

thejeff wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
I suspect 5th has some form of WBL as well, or everything is just that nerfed. I did look at the DMG, and even for a level 30 monster, the recommended AC was 19. So maybe things are just that nerfed.
It is not nerfed, it is a different f$%#ing system.

No. No. The numbers are smaller. That means it's nerfed.

I know. Actually recognizing the limitations of the RNG, thus smoothing out the power progression and keeping the die relevant longer, is so déclassé.

Liberty's Edge

Irontruth wrote:

I get the complete opposite sense.

The Dem's tried to maintain some aspects of their left leaning side, but spent a LOT of time being wishy-washy over Blue Dog issues that they essentially looked like paralyzed deer in the recent election. The Keystone pipeline being a prime example. The delayed action on the pipeline for 2 reasons.

1) Dem's in left-leaning districts could continue to rail against the issue and promise how they would block it.
2) Dem's in more conservative districts/states could b#%&% and moan about how it wasn't passed and promise how they would pass it.

You get similar things with the ACA, the president saying it's great, while representatives call it the work of satan. In the end it made the Dem's look clueless and directionless.

They really haven't gotten more liberal the past 15 years, but have gotten quite a bit more conservative. I say this as a person who has themselves become less liberal over the same time period.

All of the Blue Dog Dems (beside Landrieu, and she lost last week) lost in 2010. What you saw were a bunch of the Progressive wing playing centrist in swing states and it didn't fly.

See, Dems screwed up and thought Bush Fatigue was a mandate to pull the country left. They didn't understand the people wanted the second coming of Bill and to move back to the center. Then Obamamania swept the nation and we got an empty suit with no body of work to make the assumption he'd actually be up to the job, a House and Senate leadership known for vitriol and arrogance, and an incestuous relationship between the media and the Oval Office, pretty much eliminating any serious coverage of the administration's deficiencies (both the president of CBS and ABC have a sibling or spouse as a close adviser to Obama, and the NYT, NBC, CNN, MSNBC all have top management related/married to people well positioned in the administration. Public info is a lovely thing, people should make us of it).

The first two years under Obama set the tone. "Shut up, we won" sealed the Dems' fate. They ran things for two years like they had a mandate. But they didn't. People really didn't want "change" they could "believe in", they were just told they did by the constant media spin. What they really wanted was "normal", which meant "how it was under Clinton" for a lot of people.

The Dems might seem conservative right now, I guess, but it's hard to tell. Boehner has pretty much kept Obama's agenda mostly sidelined, and Reid won't let what the House does pass get to the floor a lot of the time. I have a hard time calling gridlock an indication of a "conservative" Dem party. They've been mostly powerless, outside of Obama's executive order pen, since the 2010 mid-terms.

Now, clueless and directionless pretty much nails it either way, so I agree with you there.

Liberty's Edge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
David Bowles wrote:

Yeah, you can summon, but the summons have crappy to hit numbers, or you can try to dominate, but that is also a crap shoot.

Also, one anti-magic field and all your casters have a sad face indeed.

Outside of GM fiat AMFs don't happen, and summons to-hit doesn't matter when the enemies are paralyzed, blinded, stunned, and all the other wonderful things casters can inflict on foes.

The fact that you drop resources like candy to counter casters says a lot.

No joke. I played Fiachra the way I did to avoid niche encroachment, and to let everyone have fun. Most encounters really don't NEED a ton of magic to defeat, not at low to mid levels anyway, so why waste resources when the other members of the group have sufficient tools for the job, maybe with a scroll from me here or there to tilt the odds in our favor if the encounter is a little more daunting, but not deadly.

But then, I don't need to shine every round to have fun, I can have my fun with the RP after the encounter and enjoy the in character banter about "could have used your help back there!" "What? Ghouls? If you can't handle that without me, why are you my body guards?"

Fiachra was pretty arrogant.

But, yeah, even at fifth level, I probably could have shut down a few things a lot more quickly.

Liberty's Edge

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ShadowcatX wrote:
Yuugasa wrote:
Fergurg wrote:
Yuugasa wrote:

When I was a kid there was an incident where a police officer stopped a black man in my area and asked him for I.D.

The man complied without complaint, but as the man pulled his wallet out of his pocket and opened it to get his I.D. the officer drew his gun and emptied an entire clip into the man at almost point blank range. When the man was on the ground, likely already dead, the cop calmly reloaded and emptied an entire additional clip into the man's unmoving body.

This was on a public street and there were many witnesses who saw the whole thing. The cop claimed he thought some weapon might have been in the wallet so he defended himself. The man was in fact unarmed and turned out to have no criminal record. Less than a week later the shoot was declared justified.

The adults in my area were extremely disturbed and frightened by this but nothing could be done about it. The incident actually spawned a game at my school were we would yell; "Look out, he has I.D.!" before surprise punching each other in the chest.

Now, to be fair many years later a criminal network was taken apart and it was discovered that that same cop(among others) was on their payroll, leading to speculation that maybe that incident had been some kind of hit, but as far as I know nothing ever came of that.

You mean it's possible that a black man could be shot by a cop for a reason other than "Police just hate black people"?

Of course, but if it was an assassination that is in many ways an even more terrifying scenario. It means a hit man killed his target in broad daylight in front of witnesses with full confidence he would get away with it because he was a cop.

What does that say about the society we live in?

That police officers who are hit men can significantly undercost hit men who are not police officers and eventually get a complete monopoly?

Actually, they'd be able to charge a premium by being an official, legal shield keeping the person that hired them completely above suspicion, since the cop was obviously defending himself against a deranged criminal. Regular hit men can't provide that service, and the type of people that can afford to have someone hit would gladly pay more for a much safer opportunity to remove someone in their way.

Liberty's Edge

David Bowles wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
If you're playing a high level caster and you're focusing on DAMAGE, the YOU are the one who isn't gaming it out well.
It's hard to win without damage, therefore, martials are needed.

Wait, I thought you played 3x type games. It's true you need them in 1e, 2e, and 5e (didn't play enough 4e to know first hand, so I won't comment), but I hate to break it to you, martials are an anchor to the wizard and CoDzilla in 3x, and really aren't much more effective in Pathfinder, unless GMs completely ignore any possibility of opponents being intelligent at high level.

Liberty's Edge

Jeven wrote:
David Bowles has actually sold me on 5e. A thread like this with a vociferous critic generates a lot of back and forth discussion which is very interesting and insightful.

It's worth a peek even if it winds up not being your cup of tea. They do some things very nicely that could be stolen for house rules.

Liberty's Edge

Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:
"Don Juan de Doodlebug" in another thread wrote:
Spent all day flirting with Female Comrade on Facebook.

Some of it was in private, much of it was public or in private threads with others.

Went over the Comrades' to plan our communist activity for the rest of the month and Mrs. Comrade 's all like "Look at you, Mr. Flirtypants!" I blush and ask "You think it's working?" "Ohmygod, how can you even ask? Where'd you get so good at that?" "I've been practicing for the last couple of years on Paizo."

Thank you, every Paizonian I have ever flirted with.

You're ever so welcome, sweetie pie. Mwah. ;-)

Liberty's Edge

Remember, thejeff, my take on the whole thing is it's all just grand theater for the masses, while we're getting screwed by the backstage goings on. The only real sides are the two faces most pols wear.

The Dems had a chance to put a stake in the heart of the Republicans after the Bush fiasco, but put all of their eggs in the basket of an empty suit from the corrupt Chicago machine. They threw the Blue Dogs to the wolves and went further left than Joe Six-Pack (even union card holding Joe Six-Pack, a la the Eighties and Reagan) is comfortable with, and it left the Republicans in a position where even the Tea Party anchor couldn't sink them.

The Dems made their bed. They better just hope they're smart enough to not nominate Hilary, or they better hope whomever the Repubs win with is a complete disaster, since he'll have the whole shebang with no Dem resistance, and Republicans have far fewer special interest mouths to feed, so they can do some focused damage with both houses and the presidency.

Liberty's Edge

thejeff wrote:

With the stated goal of McConnell being to make Obama a one-term president, I have a lot of trouble spreading the blame evenly.

The stimulus back in 2009, while too small, stopped the initial bleeding and kept states from collapsing. From then on, they haven't been able to get any real stimulus and even normal government spending has been cut back, generally in attempts to compromise with the Republicans and get something done.

You can blame Democrats for those compromises that did hurt people, but you can't both blame them for that and for upsetting Republicans by blocking House legislation.

They can't both let Republicans do what they want and not compromise.

Yeah, the opposition is supposed to help secure a second term for the other side's guy. Are you seriously saying that blame is equal because dude stated the obvious goal of both parties if they're on the wrong side of the Oval Office desk?

As to the other part, that's pretty much the relationship O'Neill and Reagan had. If Reagan wanted anything, he has to give Tip everything. Sorry, that's just politics. Difference is, Reagan and O'Neill wore big boy pants, and Obama and Boehner are both Baby Boomer brats who won't let their egos take a nap.

Liberty's Edge

Tunnels and Trolls. It was made to be D&D for people who didn't have people to play with, since, before the media hoopla made it a fad, it was hard to find people to play with in some areas. The company that published it, Flying Buffalo, did the Grimtooth Traps books as well.

Liberty's Edge

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thejeff wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
BBC just had a story tonight about how the widening gap between in income has cost the USA something like 7% gdp growth in the past several years.

Yeah, Obama fans are pointing to the stock market highs and saying how great the economy is, yet they forget wages are stagnant and, at 58%, we are at the lowest job participation rate in a generation.

I tell them that the stock market doing well, in the face of the other factors, just means the Koch bros., Soros, Buffett, Gates, et al are doing GREAT while the rest of us are not doing so well.

I think we've hit a perfect storm of technology making a lot of old jobs obsolete, a high not really seen since the late 1800's and the Robber Barons in corporate greed and malfeasance (as well as blatant government bribery and collusion), and a polarization of our politics to the extreme that nothing will get done to fix any of the problems we face. Both parties killing off their moderates to appease their bases have truly screwed us on top of all of the other issues.

Most of the Obama fans I know aren't talking about how great the stock market is doing, but about how jobs are coming back, if slowly, and that there are starting to be some signs of wage growth - though that's definitely tentative.

They're also talking about how the Republican party has done everything they possibly could to kill anything Obama tried to do, including any measures to help the economy.

Reid blockading a lot of House passed legislation added to the ill will between camps. Both sides have been complicit since Bush's 9/11 good will ran out, and the patriotic bi-partisan chest pounding stopped.

Liberty's Edge

Abraham spalding wrote:
BBC just had a story tonight about how the widening gap between in income has cost the USA something like 7% gdp growth in the past several years.

Yeah, Obama fans are pointing to the stock market highs and saying how great the economy is, yet they forget wages are stagnant and, at 58%, we are at the lowest job participation rate in a generation.

I tell them that the stock market doing well, in the face of the other factors, just means the Koch bros., Soros, Buffett, Gates, et al are doing GREAT while the rest of us are not doing so well.

I think we've hit a perfect storm of technology making a lot of old jobs obsolete, a high not really seen since the late 1800's and the Robber Barons in corporate greed and malfeasance (as well as blatant government bribery and collusion), and a polarization of our politics to the extreme that nothing will get done to fix any of the problems we face. Both parties killing off their moderates to appease their bases have truly screwed us on top of all of the other issues.

Liberty's Edge

I've always thought 4e was an awesome engine for a superheroes game. The way the dailies and stuff are presented make perfect sense for a comic book style game, and all of the pushing and battlefield movement represents, say, the Thing wiping the board with someone during "clobbering time".

Liberty's Edge

wraithstrike wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

I don't suspect anybody is saying that the existence of fluff is killing roleplaying, but rather the way a group chooses to implement it.

+1

Not even that, what I meant was, by having so many base classes, you don't have to really think about how to develop a concept or how to portray an archetype. Once the game actually starts, all RPGs depend on the group's preferences as to how immersive the RP will be, but I preferred having to do some mental gymnastics to get a concept across, pre-3x. Now, if you allow 3.5 splats, you basically have a base class for every concept, no mental gymnastics required.

Fluff is fluff, and it is mutable with most gamers. It really can't get in the way of RP unless you let it.

Liberty's Edge

kyrt-ryder wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:
Just a Guest wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
Umbranus wrote:
Again, why look at the rules when you are aiming for a certain fluff?
I wish I knew. I have had discussions with this guy in my group about stuff like this all the time. His answer is, "I just don't think Pathfinder is a 'refluff it' kind of game." WTF does that mean?

What it means is that, the way it is set up, Pathfinder does your imagining for you. Given enough time, they will have a base case for most concepts, eliminating the need for the player to imagine anything, and just pick off the menu of feats and skills.

So you say pathfinder kills roleplaying? Because that's what it sounds like.
Character generation isn't roleplaying. It's what happens before roleplaying.
Try rolling up a character in Traveller

Well, that's T&T style solo roleplaying. Rolling until you're seventy and dead? Classic.

Liberty's Edge

Kthulhu wrote:

I guess we'll see when they put out the fourth edition of 3.0 (AKA Pathfinder 2e).

I'm wondering if it's major change is to admit Paizo's bias and relegate all non-caster classes to NPC class status.

The bias is built in to the engine they modified. They did some really nice things in the Beta, then decided to scrap all of them, I'm thinking, because the caster fans didn't want their "we can do anything you can do better, we can do anything better than you" niche infringed upon. Oh, and that commitment to "backward compatibility" that tied their hands.

Liberty's Edge

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Funny, a big reason I am welcoming 5e with open arms is they seem like they actually listened to the play testers and their target audience, whereas the Beta felt like a tease, the input was pointless, and we basically got 3x with Jason's house rules anyway.

But, yeah, if you like 3x, 5e isn't your game. If you like AD&D, I'd recommend 5e whole heartedly. No, the mechanics are not the same, not really, but the FEEL is there. It's like they pretty much do all the cool AD&D things, but in a more modern, better edited way.

Liberty's Edge

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I think David is confused, thinks WotC just put out 4e, and that there is an actual edition war going on here. The "Edition Wars" of the 4e era had a lot more meat to them, for both sides, since there were a lot of sacred cows involved, a popular upstart willing to pick up the 3x banner, and a ton of (arguably) badly thought out marketing schemes for 4e that, rightly or wrongly rubbed some older players the wrong way.

This time is so different it isn't even funny. WotC learned from the 4e experience, at least marketing-wise, and put out a game that probably is meant more to compete with the OSR in a way than with Pathfinder directly. I don't think Pathfinder fans (other than David) really care what 5e does, unless they want to play a new version of an older edition (sort of), which I think appeals to the older crowd.

See, WotC, I think, understands something some younger gamers might not: TTRPG is a niche hobby compared to just about any other hobby, and is nothing like the phenomenon and cash cow it was in the '80s. They NEED the older gamers to be viable, as there are less and less replacement players willing to put down the xbox controller for four hours of rolling dice. Pathfinder pretty much has the old 3x crowd sewn up, the 4e base wasn't enough to keep Hasbro happy, apparently, so all that is left are the people that don't have the time for 3x any more, and might want something a little simpler, faster and easier to prep, that still has an AD&D feel to it (something 3x and Pathfinder really do not).

If David isn't just having a bit of trollish sporting fun with this, I have to assume he's just got nothing better to do than complain about a game that he won't play because it isn't exactly like the game Paizo already puts out.

Liberty's Edge

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Lemmy wrote:

IME with the police from 3 different nations, (including Brazil, which is not exactly known for it's amazing police force and safe streets), most police officers are actually honest people doing their work, usually legitimately trying to protect and serve the community.

As is the case with any other organization, though, it has bad apples. A%*!!$%s will be a$++@%*s, no matter their job. And if those a%+#*&*s are in a position of power, they'll abuse it. It doesn't matter if it's the power of carrying loaded arms and beating up people or the power to write and approve bad laws.

Additionally, police officers don't grow on police trees. They most likely come from the communities where they work. The police (much like government) reflects the society that it works for. In a place where racism is common, expect lots of racist cops. In a place where corruption runs rampant, expect corrupt cops.

I know the quality of police forces varies wildly from place to place, but I tend to at least show police officers some respect and give them the benefit of doubt. Their job is often dangerous and underpaid, and to make things worse, the communities they protect often see them with bad eyes...

It's certainly not an easy job. Especially in the communities that most desperately need an effective police force.

Lemmy, actually, the practice in the U.S. is to have officers who don't even live in the same city, let alone neighborhood, patrolling. The government apparently doesn't want Officer Krupki giving anyone a pass because he happens to know what his home life is like, or knows someone's dad. So, the police here, in a lot of places, have zero connection to their patrol area.

Liberty's Edge

mplindustries wrote:
Umbranus wrote:
Again, why look at the rules when you are aiming for a certain fluff?
I wish I knew. I have had discussions with this guy in my group about stuff like this all the time. His answer is, "I just don't think Pathfinder is a 'refluff it' kind of game." WTF does that mean?

What it means is that, the way it is set up, Pathfinder does your imagining for you. Given enough time, they will have a base case for most concepts, eliminating the need for the player to imagine anything, and just pick off the menu of feats and skills.

Liberty's Edge

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David Bowles wrote:
Except for those of us who find "advantage" and "disadvantage" limiting and boring as watching paint dry.

Watching paint dry? Sounds like the typical 3x high level combat round to me.

Liberty's Edge

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Krensky wrote:

From reading the papers by military scientists about the LA riots and similar domestic uses part of it is that the Guard is seen with a mixture of respect for the Army and not being the police. Their commanders also almost always lack the 'whip the animals back' (not the terms used) mindset that can develop in police in troubled areas. The papers also talked about how they were NOT the ideal tool in these circumstances, and that their standing orders and procedures need to be focused on calming things down since the Army (even if it's only a part time one) is a pretty giant fscking sledge hammer and no one sane wants to use it.

The Guard also learned from it's mistakes last century and someone resorting to massed fire into a crowd of angry civilians will almost certainly be court martialed and even if found not guilty be cashiered out.

And, again, before someone says something, I'm talking solely about domestic uses of the Guard in civil disturbance missions.

I don't mind the NG for that reason, the military holds its officers more accountable than police forces seem to. You screw up in the military, you're answering to somebody, and possibly doing Fed time to boot.

Liberty's Edge

Krensky wrote:
It also helps that, in general, when the National Guard is deployed for civilian missions their weapons are not loaded.

When I was in an NG unit in Austin back in the college days (around the first Gulf War) we weren't even given the bolts for our rifles if we did protest duty. The rifle was just for show, we were to use our mere presence and charm to keep things chill.

Liberty's Edge

GreyWolfLord wrote:
houstonderek wrote:


One minor quibble: AD&D is where we saw non-humans as something that take classes. Before the PHB came out in 1978, Elves were elves, dwarves were dwarves, and none took class levels. Race as class was OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BECMI. All of them. ;-)

Also, Holmes, for being labelled "basic", was just a compilation and clean up of OD&D. It pretty much existed because of the issues you point out with OD&D.

Err...

From the original Men and Magic...

Quote:

Dwarves - Dwarves may opt only for the fighting class and they may never progress beyond the 6th level

Elves: Elves can begin as either Fighting-men or Magic-Users and freely switch class whenever they choose

Halflings: Should any player wish to be one, he will be limited to the Fighting Men class

Your race and class were separate things in OD&D, even right from the start (when there were only three classes to choose from).

All the best, it's a mistake many make, but class and race only started as the same thing with B/X. Even Holmes had races and classes separately.

I got out the original booklet just to make sure I typed it rightly in the quote above.

If you guys have other questions about OD&D...I can try to answer them...but another thread probably would be better.

It also means I have to go and get the booklets down and then put them back up every time as I'm not currently playing an OD&D campaign.

I stand corrected :-)

Liberty's Edge

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David Bowles wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Golarion
Biggest reason I bailed on PF.
I have my own setting in my homebrew. So Golarion doesn't matter to me.
Too bad the entire rules set exists to support Golarion, not vice versa.
I don't find this to be true, not anymore than AD+D existed to support Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms.

Yeah, because AD&D core was all about Greyhawk and FR. They added all kinds of stuff to core that was setting specific (other than some spell names, that is). Yeah, AD&D rules only existed to sell APs set in Greyhawk and to support the RPGA.

Please.

Liberty's Edge

David Bowles wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Golarion
Biggest reason I bailed on PF.
I have my own setting in my homebrew. So Golarion doesn't matter to me.

Too bad the entire rules set exists to support Golarion, not vice versa.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
David Bowles wrote:
Golarion

Biggest reason I bailed on PF.

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GreyWolfLord wrote:

OD&D - I can't say I like the three original booklets. They are somewhat confusing, and I never played chainmail, so had to always use the alternate system. I did enjoy it more when Greyhawk came out. That's perhaps the most significant book in RPGing for me that made ALL THE DIFFERENCE. It's a start, and it can be fun for nostalgia, but I think I prefer playing AD&D or B/X to OD&D.

Holmes - Well, I've played it, it was as good as any other basic set, which means it's better than almost any current basic/starter set that's come out in the past 5 years...with the exception of the PF beginner box.

B/X - It's actually pretty good, much simpler, and had a lot of weird things in relation to AD&D. Here we see races as classes for the first time.

One minor quibble: AD&D is where we saw non-humans as something that take classes. Before the PHB came out in 1978, Elves were elves, dwarves were dwarves, and none took class levels. Race as class was OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BECMI. All of them. ;-)

Also, Holmes, for being labelled "basic", was just a compilation and clean up of OD&D. It pretty much existed because of the issues you point out with OD&D.

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yellowdingo wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Triphoppenskip wrote:
All cripes, I forgot the holidays are coming up. People are getting antsy for me to start providing grandkids for these get togethers.
Mom: You heard about Charlie Manson? um humm. He's a murdering lunatic and he's found a wife. What's taking you so long? You're not even nearly as crazy. That's fine. I guess I'll just have to die never knowing what it's like to have grandchildren. No. NO. It's Fine. I'm fine. Your poor mother can just die alone without little ones to spoil and perpetuate the gene pool. No really. I'm fine. I worked for three days to make this meal for you, because I love you, and all I want is for you to find someone nice and settle down. But it's fine. No really. I knitted this onzie, but it looks like I may never need it. Maybe it'll fit the neighbors dog. Its fine. ... ... ... ... ...

You: yellowdingo says string theory invalidates religion and evolution because at superposition all life is the same life, so its best we not perpetuate the lies that have consumed our poorly educated and failing civilization.

Mom: who?
You: yellowdingo. He's this australian - I think he's australian...oh my god...thats him looking at me through the window...no...no...no. Its okay. Its not him. We're fine.
Mom: does he have a girlfriend?
You: god I hope not.

You rock.

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Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:

I've never been married, but from what I've observed:

All you married people who think marriage gives you an excuse to not go out on dates will find yourselves not married before too long.

That isn't "dating". That is "escaping from the children". Trust me, I know.

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Abraham spalding wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
LazarX wrote:

Expressions of personal sentiments are one thing. I wouldn't be surprised that they personally hate him, after all Snowden hit them all deeply where they live... the making and trading of secrets.

If any of these individuals were actually CAUGHT doing this, they're liable for prosecution.

BTW, Buzzfeed, you can't be anomynous and on the record, they're mutually exclusive.

Then why hasn't President Obama been charged with murder? He has ordered the killing of American citizens.
There are laws governing killing. Not all killings are murder. If you think that Obama has broken any laws, you're welcome to write a U.S. attorney and make your views known.
You're hilarious.
And correct. Let's not pretend that government-sanctioned killing of its own citizens is new or even frowned upon in all instances.
Legal government sanctioned killing involves a trial and conviction. President Obama gave the citizens he ordered killed neither.
If you believe this then you should also want post-humus charges pressed against President Lincoln -- after all he knowingly and without trial had citizens of the USA killed by the military without trial. And the crimes the citizens supposedly committed are crimes only congress can judge.

The South seceded and declared war on the Union. There was no way in hell the Union was going to reciprocate with a formal declaration of war, as that would have acknowledged the Confederacy's legitimacy as a sovereign nation, not a rebellion. You don't formally declare war on a rebellion, you just put it down.

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Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Hama wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Hama wrote:
Serbian girls are either gold diggers who base their looks on trashy 80s porn stars, crazy to the bone or taken.
Next stop: Serbia.

I worked with two Serbian chicks a few years back. Damn. I mean, seriously, DAMN. ;-)

But, yeah, like Hama says, crazy to the bone.

You mean DAMN like this?

But yeah, crazy. Worse if there is Russian or Ukrainian blood mixed in there somewhere, trust me, I know firsthand.

Like that, but one was even hotter. She was a six foot tall Angelina Jolie look-a-like, but with less anorexia.
moves to annex Serbia

She lives in Houston. And she likes tan guys. Really, really, genetically tan guys.

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Hama wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Hama wrote:
Serbian girls are either gold diggers who base their looks on trashy 80s porn stars, crazy to the bone or taken.
Next stop: Serbia.

I worked with two Serbian chicks a few years back. Damn. I mean, seriously, DAMN. ;-)

But, yeah, like Hama says, crazy to the bone.

You mean DAMN like this?

But yeah, crazy. Worse if there is Russian or Ukrainian blood mixed in there somewhere, trust me, I know firsthand.

Like that, but one was even hotter. She was a six foot tall Angelina Jolie look-a-like, but with less anorexia.

Liberty's Edge

male 200m none/usually

I've had a rough week, I might have to bow out, my character is only half made.

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Freehold DM wrote:
Hama wrote:
Serbian girls are either gold diggers who base their looks on trashy 80s porn stars, crazy to the bone or taken.
Next stop: Serbia.

I worked with two Serbian chicks a few years back. Damn. I mean, seriously, DAMN. ;-)

But, yeah, like Hama says, crazy to the bone.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm married, I'm not allowed to date any more.

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male 200m none/usually

Yep. Just starting my guy now. Going with the elite array instead of my rolls, and thinking fighter. Human probably.

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I might have the character sheet somewhere around here, I'll look.

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male 200m none/usually

Can you shoot me another copy of the latest and greatest? My external hard drive isn't playing well with the wife's iThing laptop, so I don't have access right now :(

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Sara Marie wrote:
"Imagine, for a moment, that a significant portion of the population believed, based on your looks, that if they encountered you in public, you owed them a dollar. These people are total strangers to you, but they believe fervently that any time they see you in public, you are obligated to give them a dollar. They're willing to make polite conversation with you in the hopes that you'll willingly give them the dollar, but if you don't they're willing to follow you down the street and bug you about it until you fork it over. And if even that doesn't work, they're constantly scheming for ways to pick your pocket or steal your stuff in order to get the money that is rightfully owed to them by you and everyone who falls into the category of people like you who have spurned their dollar-seeking advances over the years."
I used to live across from the homeless shelter in Troy, NY. This paragraph accurately describes my situation every time I'd step outdoors.
That's every day walking through downtown. Yawn.
Did either of you find that to be enjoyable?

Not at all. Just something I expect. But that is something that happens to anyone that either looks "nice" or has a little coin. What women go through in some places isn't regular day to day for everyone, and that is a problem. The yawn was just for panhandlers. I apologize for not specifying in my first post.

Liberty's Edge

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Sara Marie wrote:
"Imagine, for a moment, that a significant portion of the population believed, based on your looks, that if they encountered you in public, you owed them a dollar. These people are total strangers to you, but they believe fervently that any time they see you in public, you are obligated to give them a dollar. They're willing to make polite conversation with you in the hopes that you'll willingly give them the dollar, but if you don't they're willing to follow you down the street and bug you about it until you fork it over. And if even that doesn't work, they're constantly scheming for ways to pick your pocket or steal your stuff in order to get the money that is rightfully owed to them by you and everyone who falls into the category of people like you who have spurned their dollar-seeking advances over the years."
I used to live across from the homeless shelter in Troy, NY. This paragraph accurately describes my situation every time I'd step outdoors.

That's every day walking through downtown. Yawn.

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male 200m none/usually
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Derek, you can always just take the Elite array instead (15,14,13,12,10,8), if you want.

Cool. I was thinking fighter anyway. I did rogue and wizard when we were playing, and I think we have divine covered, so I want to try to go full on mage killer. ;-)

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male 200m none/usually

4d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 1, 2) = 10 = 9
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 6, 4) = 15 = 14
4d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 2, 2) = 13 = 11
4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 3, 3) = 17 = 14
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 1, 1) = 7 = 6
4d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 3, 3) = 12 = 11

Hmm. I guess I can go fighter.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kirth Gersen wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
He could be someones familiar. ;)
I miss Trog!

She recreated her in the 1e game I am running right now ;-)

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