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After 14 years I am definitely burned out on 3x, any version.
Actually, in 2e, it did mean you bought one, maybe two. TSR had well over that. And as far as I know, WotC had two settings that got serious support (FR and Eberron), and a few "one offs" (ghostwalk, etc). TSR tried to fully support something like a dozen, if you count BECMI stuff. Most of the "division" you speak of were from 3PPs, not WotC. That's "competition", not killing yourself in-house.
As far as I'm concerned, the "social contract" thing resulted in the last two books of the Gunslinger series being total crap. I'm sure King just mailed the last two in, seeing as his "fans" couldn't stop annoying the living hell out if him while he was recovering from being hit by a van, since they apparently felt "entitled" to the end of the series.
Seriously, I will never understand why anyone would actually want fans, seeing as this thread highlights how impossible to please many can be.
I don't see a bunch of AUTHORS on here whining. ;-)
I'm emotionally invested in my wife, my children, and my friends. My entertainment? Not so much. If something starts to suck, I say "ok, this sucks now" and find something else to occupy my time.
Let me use this as an example. I like Paizo as a company, but I don't really care for the direction they're taking their game, so I went back to 1e. I'm not MAD at Paizo, they're just going in creative directions that I don't care to follow. They didn't "break a contract" with me.
I think the 4e Realms stuff put that in perspective for me. I realized "wait, I don't even PLAY 4e, why should I care?" and dropped it. Then I realized that caring that much about some truly insignificant stuff really wastes a lot of energy best used elsewhere.
So, basically, this "social construct" y'all are discussing sounds a whole lot like misplaced entitlement to me. This isn't clean water and air, this isn't whether or not you can feed your family tomorrow, it's how you spend some discretionary income.
And, really, if some writer or director or whatever doesn't want to do something any more, or doesn't do it in the way you "approve" of, who is anyone to say that person did anything wrong?
Get over it, you'll feel better about a whole lot of stuff. Trust me.
Piccolo Taphodarian wrote:
So, basically, completely overhaul 3x. Pathfinder's scaling problems are built into the 3x engine, I'm afraid.
Yeah, TSR was splitting the market in house, between, say, FR fans and Ravenloft. Almost all were playing AD&D or BECMI or something that TSR published to run them.
4e (and WotC) split the market, but another company was getting the customers that didn't want to play 4e.
Very different circumstances between the two, really.
I thought they did that because if you actually take five seconds and think about it, Orange is the New Black sucks, but people binge watch and miss that. ;-)
Liz Courts wrote:
Even though I'm burned out on Pathfinder, if I ever get off my support the brick and mortar kick, this is where I'd buy gaming stuff on-line (if Paizo stocks it). Best customer service in the industry.
Edit: I'll give them 1a, only because Wolfgang actually, probably from a phone, personally took care of an issue I was having with downloading my PDF for an issue of KQ, while he was on a plane waiting for his flight to leave.
So, best normal customer service, anyway. ;-)
The whole concept of anyone "owing" anyone anything outside of basic courtesy (or an actual debt) is foreign to me. An author owes us NOTHING. Nor do we owe then anything.
Just the thought of the idea that someone "owes" someone something just because they were lucky enough to create something people like reveals to me the level of entitlement in our society has reached idiotic levels.
Yep. Just started up a new 1e game with some old school people interested in checking out 5e with me. We're running the classics (I'm starting with n1, since it's my favorite 1e low level adventure), then I think the Slaver's series, then either GDQ or the S modules.
Or we just fool around with it for a bit then give 5e a run when the core is out and complete (I've seen a lot of conversion stuff for AD&D to 5th, esp. the monster conversions, but my prep time isn't exactly massively available, so waiting is the easier option).
I think the need to get rid of the "unfun" parts of magic user play ruined what balance AD&D fostered. All of the "unfun" stuff was what kept them from dominating the game.
Yep. 2e didn't do much to change the 1e relationship between the classes, other than to eliminate a few all together and add one (core). The magic user was still a glass cannon, and wasn't anything close to the 3x wizard, level by level, until well into double digits.
Oh, and Stoneskin, iirc, was a sixth level spell, so I doubt any 5th level magic users were casting it (for Cptexploderman). I think you also forget that you have to declare your actions before you roll initiative in 1e (I forget if they still did that in 2e), that high level spells took a LONG time to cast, relatively, and, even if you're stone skinned, it didn't take much to disrupt casting.
If the wizard could get the spell off, yeah, big time wow. But, in AD&D, getting that spell off was far from certain, unless your DM was a total pushover or ignored a ton of stuff.
3x? Let's see, even the most powerful spells generally take as long to cast as the lowliest first level spell, you can practically do cartwheels while casting, and even if you do get hit, you have an incredibly easy concentration check. Couple all of that with DCs that scale faster than save bonuses, all kinds of stuff to make SR a pointless stat in most cases, and the fact that the AD&D fighter got that 2/1 or 3/1 AND his move, and in 3x it was either/or, oh, yeah, 3x was "wizard" edition.
Almost nothing got past spell resistance. Fighters weren't caddies and sherpas in pre-3x D&D, not by a long shot.
Wizards of the Coast, for some reason, really liked wizards in 3x.
I am going to use the "15 year vacation" line. ;-)
So maybe the idea of it being more like previous editions is done by design, because that way when people look at it they'll say "Oh, this is definitely D&D."
This is it for me. I see the 3x and the 4e elements, but in general feel, it's more like 2e in a lot of ways. None of the esoteric stuff that I love from 1e (nostalgia, mostly) but a lot of 2e and beyond players don't like much. Which is cool, it's 2014, not 1980, after all.
The thing that says "this is D&D" most to me, though, is the flattened power curve (now that's 1e, for sure) and the fact that fighters are supposed to be pretty bad ass (1e fighters were mechanically boring, but they were deadly), and wizards aren't supposed to be invulnerable (an issue with high level 3x). I feel 5e addressed the power divide 3x brought in the martial vs magical classes quite well, actually.
Celestial Healer wrote:
PS1 and PS2. Absolutely. PS3 and the XBox were the beginning of "you don't get the whole game for $60, and it isn't really portable even if you sign in to your account from another machine" stuff.
Well, Gorbacz is kind of a hipster lookin' guy, and the bride is pretty, they were just doing us a favor ;-)
Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
Um, the more important question is, why do cons allow registered sex offenders to buy tickets and be around children? I don't leave my kids with anyone I do not know and trust completely (mostly just a couple I babysit for when they need a break and relatives).
Also, maybe I'm a little leery of letting anyone I don't know well into my home, and want to make sure anyone I invite to a home game isn't on file as being a chomo.
Personal research. No hyperbole.
One dude, a professor of mine, was a good DM and I asked him to run a game for my group. I eventually moved away, but the group still played with him and they became close. He babysat for one of the guys and molested his kids, and did time. I found out, and I have been careful ever since, which is easier now with the SO registry.
I didn't start hard core using the DPS Sex Offender registry until I went back on my first violation in 2011 and all of the SOs had been "outed". Until then, I only used it for people I was thinking of inviting into my home. After then, I did so to see how bad it was.
Celestial Healer wrote:
Yeah, the memory cards for the PS1 and PS2 were awesome in this regard. I am starting to hate my PS3 enough to never want a PS4 (just more of what I hate about modern console gaming).
Beautiful pics at that. Lovely bride. Lovely looking ceremony. Well done all around.
The sixth printing of the 1e AD&D PHB (1982) is probably the best selling RPG hardcover of all time. They wen't for $12 a pop. Jacobs has already stated on a thread a while back that 1e PHB sales dwarfed 3x PHB in volume. Back then, only DMS bought the MM and DMG for the most part, so those books may not have sold as well as their 3x counterparts through the run.
My order would be WEG d6 #1, SAGA #2, SWd20 #2,198,753. I haven't played the new one yet.
I loved every WEG game I played, and I hate that they're gone. WEG, Chaosium, and TSR were my '80s, gaming-wise. SW SAGA was a good system, and a definite improvement over d20. I actually wish 4e were MORE like SAGA, I might have enjoyed the game a lot more. d20 Star Wars, well, I just pretend it doesn't exist, much like Episodes 1-3.
Get a hold of as much of the Second Edition stuff as you can afford. From what I can tell, 5e would work well in the older iteration of the Realms, if you wanted to play "classic". 3e wasn't that much of a change, maybe a little darker, but there wasn't a huge RSE heralding the change, simply the return of Bane and Shade, and pretending the Shadow Weave was always there. Either one is a good bet for a fun Realms experience.
I am looking forward to seeing how they fix the damage they did with 4e. Maybe 5e Realms stuff will fit with the lore I already have on the shelf.
Oh, yeah. Almost forgot the actual reason for popping in for all of the whining,
Picked up the PHB Monday. Not too shabby. Kind of a "D&D Greatest Hits" feel, rules-wise. Could have done without the dragonborn and tieflings in core, but oh well. I guess it feels like 3e had 3e been a logical progression of 2e with skills and powers instead of some kind of D&D/Warhammer Fantasy/Rolemaster mash-up.
I like it so far, can't wait until the rest of the core is released.
The draft rates magically evened out when Nixon yanked student deferments.
If you're planning on committing a crime, pick an Arizona area that isn't Mariposa County. Tent City sucks, but the Arizona State prisons are fairly laid back. New Mexico isn't that bad, either.
If you're a non-violent drug offender, Texas isn't that bad. If you're a violent offender or a child molester, the prisons you're sent to are pretty scary.
Avoid breaking the law in California. Their prisons make Texas look enlightened.
Ditto Florida. Ugh.
Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, also bad places to go to prison.
But, if you're serious about a life of crime, go to Canada if you're broke, Mexico if you have money. Canadian jails and prisons are more "Northern European" style in set up and philosophy, and Mexican jails are FUN if you have bribe money (I know the last one from experience).