|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
I don't think most people would classify Halo or Mass Effect as "post-apocalyptic" even if the civilizations are ciclyclally wiped by an armaggeddon there, but YMMV. I wouldn't say that Christ's era Rome, following the bible story, is post-apocalyptic because of Noah's flood. Nor I would classify Dragonlance as post-apocalyptic either, even with the cataclysm.
DarkSun, on the other hand, I would.
Kris Schnee wrote:
(...) they can't have it both ways: minimal rules plus specific mechanical benefits for all the gadgets(...)
Exactly this. Same goes with them having a harder time to find armor of gear because of unorthodox choices. You cant be a special snowflske and find everything fits your size as well. It is a fair assumption that if you play a moongoose you will need to use moongoose armor and thst's harder to find
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
That is true, there are several post-apocaliptyc worlds, and that is why I added that I want it to be Mad Max of Fallout style, not Thundarr/John Carter.
I dont think Golarion is postapocalyptic, unless we count Earth as postapocalyptic too. Both Golarion and Earth apocalypses are too old, the world has healed. Golarion was apocalyptic right after the Star Stone destroyed half the world, during Times of Darkness. Not now, 10000 years after that
@Yakman my idea is that Arcane magic is robotic in nature: nanites, controlled by androids, robots and cyborgs (non androids spellcssters (humana, etc) get the cybertech that gives you glowing tattoos for free). It is dirty, because it comes from what caused extinction, and technological in nature. Justo a tech so advanced that seems magic.
Divine magic is diferent. It is pure, natural, human in nature. It comes from faith, not science. That's what I want to use as shock vslue. If faith is the only redeeming thing for us, humans, and the last standing bastion to defend our moral high ground vs machines, and Unity becomes a GOd and he gets robots and android clerics and Oracles... then humanity is hopeless. Machines are better and we are doomed, even if Unity dies, their rise is inexorable. Their evolution is measured in months, ours in millenia. They can be upgraded, they have magic, they are stronger, dont get sick or hunger of die. Our god(s) are dying, theirs are being born. We have no way to win in the long run. Unless, maybe, we get a machine god ourselves, that is built as benevolous with humanity. Like Cassandalee.
This is what I want to achieve. This feeling.
If you dont want to move up complexity and tour group feels more confortable with a system that do not pay sttention to detalle, the easiest waynis to ignore the +1 light hammer. Make it a light hammer, period.
Rangers are great in this AP not just because of acrobatics.There is a LOT of wilderness involved. They'll get a lot of use for survival, tracking, stealth, speak with animals and other nature spells like animal messenger, etc.
But the main reason is because the campaing is called GIANTslayer, and Rangers get a class feature called "Favored enemy". Pick Orc at first level, then Giant, then Dragon. You'll not be dissapointed. We have a full ranger, and a druid with ranger dip for the feat that allow full favored enemy, and it's murder.
Right now we get +8 to hit and damage to giants (including the spell that adds +2), wich are 3/4 of our enemies.
In the process to design a world to adapt Iron Gods, I have found a problem.
I want to make this a postapocalyptic world, closer to Mad Max or Fallout than Thundarr the Barbarian or John Carter of Mars.
I'm going to make magic just high tech. The androids, and some humans, will be sbloe to control nanites in their bodies or in the enviroment, to get all kind of magic effects. The technic League is good at mágico because of this.
Then, the problem comes with divina mágico, I think. Parte of the core appeal of Iron Gods is how a machine can achieve godhood. I think part of what makes Unity a cool villain is that.
Then the problem is how to contrast that with regular divine magic. I feel using normal Gods, like Golarion has, somehow breaks the inmersion I want to produce.
How could I dodge this problem?
What else could be? How to make divine magic feel different than arcane, something that Unity can give to his faithful, and contrast it with already pre-existing God/Gods that is flavourful and makes sense in a non-fantasy (maybe even Earth) world?
We recently made this encounter in my game. I made her a gravewalker with, but also made an ogre zombie (his lover and sexual toy) who had a swarm of cockroachs inside. When pc killed the ogre they freed the swarm. Also I had a shelf full of pickled punks, with 2d6 of them breaking and joining the fight, plus two regular zombies. Have Mama Graul a scroll of dimensional Door and made her use animate dead with the fallen grauls. It was a fun fight, although the PC were never in dangerous, but they had to over come different challenges to beat it
Bigger "clips" or longer batteries is an option I'm thinking. The issue with it is that we, as a group, have yet to decide the overall tone of the campaign. Unlimited (or close to) laser ammo will work great for a space-opera style. For a grittier "survival" game, such as Fallout (specifically, the first fallout), it is better if ammo is scarce and/or expensive, just because it feels like you "have to make every shot count" because you don't know when you can reload.
It's purely a matter of what flavor I want to give, and I'm undecided yet. I'm leaning toward MAd Max/The Wasteland, but unsure.
Energy weapons having crits with 18+, and an effect in crits (daze/staggered, slow, burning, bull rush, etc) could work well. Maybe 19+ crit for sonic, zero, gravity, plasma and arc, and 18+ for Laser (I can't think a proper Laser ability for crits), making laser more accurate than other blasts. Will think about it.
Right now I'm leaning toward using better crit threat range for energy, and not a better crit multiplier. The reasons are: spells that can crit, as scorching ray, have x2 multiplier, the higher chance of crit make them better overall wepons vs robots because of crit vulnerability, and it goes better with the idea of better accuracy
Yep. If you use the "attacks vs objects" rule, then the players are totally hosed. Not only because energy weapons: spells like fireball also do half damage, and more importantly: a huge percentage of weapons would be considered "innefective tools" vs planks of glaucite, regardless of hardiness and damage, such as daggers. Just like you can't take down a stone wall with a dagger, no matter if you are specialized and have power attack and whatever, because it is an ineffective tool (the example in the book says hammers and picks are effective vs walls).
It would make a lot of character concepts unplayable. Robots are creatures. They have hardiness, and they substract their hardiness from damage, but that's all.
Another clear example is that objects are not subject to critical hits. Robots are not only subject to them, but they are even vulnerable.
None.He is tslking about energy doing half damage vs objects, but that's not in effect with Robots as they are not objects, they are creatures. But if you use that house rule, energy weapons are even worse: laser, gravity, zero and plasma guns would do 50% damage to robots, while s musket do 100%.
Even arrows would do better, as bows can be mighty and add stength
Possibly, but I'd like to point a few things:
I have exactly 0% intention to model reality in an Adventure about a spaceship full of sentient robots that crashes in s world of magic wielding elves. I want verosimilitude with the imagined world, not real life, so real life tissue damage is not a factor, specially when the PC are going to shoot robots, oozes, fire elementals and ghosts.
I'm not a gun expert, but nobody is when we talk about laser pistols and plasma guns and gravity cannons. We are free to imagine them as devaststing as we want. For the campaign inmersion, it "should" feel that a laser pistol with a few remaining charges is a powerful magic treasure, and currently it doesnt.
My main problem is not with muskets and hackbuts, because i'm not going to put them. It is with "modern" fire weapon like a tommy gun. Those are Semiautomatic (and automatic) too, negating the rate of fire adventage that laser weapons have over muskets.
Energy resistance is easy to have, more than DR/-. That alone make most energy weapons bad. That they do much less potential damage adds salt to the injury
I think there is something flawed in the design.
Yeah, they no longer do things like they used in the good old past...
It is counterintuitive and breaks the inmersion in the AP in my opinion. Gunslingers should not use hackbuts over láser and plasma rifles.
Will also add pistols (with magacines), assault riffles, submachine guns, flamethrowing guitars and all the staple stuff :)
I'm already at half of my Rise of Runelords-Shattered Star campaign, and I'm starting to take a look to the next possibility.
We are thinking about a change of pace, with Iron Gods, playing in a distant planet instead of Golarion, with an apocalyptic future style, like Mad Max or Fallout, but adding technomancy (and techno priests, as faith and machines is the core of the AP).
As such, I'm planing to change the default technology to "modern firearms" so the PC get firearms as simple weapons and such. I plan to add vehicles too (motorbikes instead of horses, and so).
The problem I have found is.... modern firearms are better than futuristic energy weapons. By far. A M1895 Nagant revolver does 1d8 x4, while a laser weapon does 1d8 x2, and is fire damage (a lot of fire resist dudes in the game). Machine guns are even better.
So, how can I improve this, beyond the obvious "increase laser damage" option, which is not that great as it creates an inflation of damage?
Possibilities I have thought:
Swap generic crit multiplier of fire weapons to x3, and energy weapons (or most of them) to x4. This create the "feeling" of stronger damage potential, even if there is not a big difference. Lasers are timeworn too, while bullets work fine.
Alternatively, make Lasers to crit with 18+. That makes them useful vs robots, as robots have crit vulnerability
Bullets no longer shoot vs touch attack, but rays do. This is a generic nerf to firearms, but might be worth it, as they are going to be much more common. Piercing (expensive) bullets might ignore part or all of the armor bonus
Laser and other energy weapons ignore part of the hardness, like the laser torch does
Ignore the charges for laser and other energy weapons, making them amunittion-less. But this goes against part of the AP feeling, which is about finding charges to use the nice timeworn stuff.
Make force-fields much more frequent, and/or more powerful, to the point that ignoring them with energy weapons is important. Maybe even most people (or at least most bosses) have one, Halo style.
Please note that "don't make fireweapons more common" is not going to help, as the goal is to play a campaign with lots of gunfights, for a change of pace from the magic heavy Shattered Runelords mashup
So, what does the forum communal wisdom has to offer? Any brilliant (or obvious) idea I'm missing?
Matthew Downie wrote:
Well, that would be an exception. But creatures without forelimbs can't take actions that require two hands either.
I think yours is a reasonable RAI interpretation of the rules, and one I could back up. But it's not RAW, and doesn't work in game every well.
One of the problems with the grappling rules (and some other rules, like climbing) are writen with real world mentality. They try to "work" for man vs man wrestling, with rules that mimic that sort of combat well. But we are talking about a world were a sentient ooze tries to grapple a winged horse. Technically the horse can attack the ooze with two hoofs, as hoofs aren't hands. But if the horse were a bear (far more dangerous animal in a grapple), then he could only use one claw? How so?
That said: I was totally wrong about the issue, as I wasn't giving free damage to creatures with grab. That makes it quite dangerous: 2xdamage in aa grapple, or damage+pin. And make cobstrict creatures totally monstruous. To the point that I wonder if that free grab damage is RAI. A python could do 2x damage in turn 1 (bite+cobstrict) and 3x damage in turn 2 (grab+cobstrict+damage grapple option). With the damage output a bite/cobstrict has, it's kind of really dangerous for his CR.
Anonymous Warrior wrote:
Disguise self and a huge bluff score makes him safe. And those 2 things are easy for a bard vampire
Boomerang Nebula wrote:
He has 2 similar consecutie posts, and lately the site has been working awfuly. I bet he was able to post but unable to read if he posted
WotW has the stat blocks of most things printed, I don't think you need a lot of things to run the NPCs. It comes with an antipaladin archetype which is LE, and works better for the campaign. Other than that, you'll need the books that your player are going to use. Do if a player wants to be an occultust you'll need "occult adventures" and so on.
N. Jolly wrote:
That's true. A lot of people have a life that they feel it sucks. They can only exercise power in the game. Which would be fine, if they did against NPCs. But some people do it vs other players. Either as a GM or as a player, as they can't "exercise power" vs your boss in your job, or wherever, they do in game.
It's a sad but true part of human behsviour. That's why it is such a bad idea to duel him, etc. It's an out of game problem, should be solved out of game.
Slamy Mcbiteo wrote:
hmmmm I will wait and see...evil campaign's have never interested me. It seems like there would need to be some rules otherwise the characters will be pillaging villages and burning down the orphanages. I have no interest in that. I guess maybe it could work....will wait and see
My experience with Way of the Wicked hell's me it doesn't work that way
With a group of 3, you can't have the classic fighter-rogue-Wizard-ckeric combo, no matter of what.
Beyond that, sometimes players want to play something diferent. So maybe you end having a gunslinger-monk-hunter-witch combo, or whatever.
My druid has a huge perception, probably better than most rogues. The ranger has a huge perception as well. Spotted traps can be bypassed most the time, without needing to disarm them (just don't step on it) Other times a simple summon monster 1 can fire the trap, many of them don't recharge instantly. And plenty of traps just do damage. Wands of Cure Light Wound "disable" them perfectly cine.
Besides that, our archer ranger has good DEX, and disable device. He can't disable magicsl traps, but dispel Magic can, and you can bypass many others.
Unless Nualia has leveled up quite a lot, I'm not sure they are able to do it even if they team up. But on the other hand, you don't have to run the combat, so anything that moved the plot forward will work. Maybe they got her sleeping thaks to M invisibility or whatever.
But yes, I feel that Rannick is not Lucrecia's fav place.
Really, all Paizo APs are written with 2 central factors assumed: 4 player party, and 20 point buy. Your DMs insistence on rolling is simply draconian. Talk with the players, come unified and force him into a 20 point buy.
APs expect 15 point buy AFAIK. PFS is 20 pb, though,and many people uses it for APs. 15 pb make non-SAD classes even less attractive.
To the OP: given a 1-10 scale, how much would you say that your GM enjoyed those TPKs? Because it sounds as a case of TGMWEMPM ("tyrannical GM who enjoys making players misserable"). Some people only enjoy a possition of power once a week, while they GM, and like to stretch it as much as they can.
The stuff in the spolier section a couple post above me is pretty important.
Personally I don't think it's that much of a problem not getting it at lvl 1. Assuming you don't uberdump str, you'll be going 1d8 damage. At lvl 1, you are facing goblins, rats and other s~!&ty stuff, that die easy. If you get str 13 and power attack (a good idea, as piranha strike doesn't work), that's up to 1d8+1. You can survive a few levels until you get slashing at 3.
I think there's too much eagerness to do 2d6+10 at level 1, when most the enemies you face at that level have 4-5 hp
Swashbuckler can't get slashing grace with falcata at lvl 1. Falcata is a EWP to use One handed. They get free finesse, plus weapon focus and EWP as lvl1 and human. Inspired gives free weapon focus, but with rapier only.
You forgot to mention initiative.
So yes, if we don't mention initiative, don't care for stealth or acrobatics (which is not just to tumble around huge CMD bonuses. A simple Grease Spell can take down a DEX 10 full plate user), we diminish the damage reducción effect of REF vs blasting, and we fail to recognice the existence of spells like grease, Web, Resiluent Sphere or Aquous Orb that are REF or Suck, and we don't consider touch attacks like Enervation a importante thing, then DEX is worse than STR because it does less damage.
However, for those who think initiative matters, REF sabe matters, touch AC matter, and acrobatics and stealth matter, DEX has plenty of usefulness.
noble peasant wrote:
Eh, optimal isn't what I'm going for anyway. Like I said I'm skill monkey and face. As long as I'm not a burden to keep alive and can contribute something in combat I should be good. I don't think it'll matter much, even at the highest level of play the most it's gonna get is like a +3 difference in my static pluses, I think I'll be fine. Like I said I usually like magic Items that are basically gadgets, seriously the Thieve's ring from 3.5 was my favourite thing I ever got throughout my entire time playing that system, just beating out a cape that gave me a fly speed. Yea, I know I'm weird. :P
I think it'll matter more than any other thing you can get for that level of effort.It only costs 4000gp and the neck slot, no feat, or multiclass, or trait needed. And it's not a +3. First, it's more than that, if you pump DEX with enhancement bonus and leveling.
Second, it means you can drop STR a bit more, use the points elsewhere (like INT or CON) and never look back.
Have you thought about the 1 lvl dip into archeologist bard for luck bonus to hit and damage?
People would make first level rogué, and THEN, once they have used it for a while level, mukticlass into the other class. That doesn't solve anything
My propossed solution would be making DEX to apply to hit and damage for all fines se weapon, for free, without any other feat required, regardless of class.
For those who are thinking now "but... That would mean STR becomes useless, and a dump stat". Well, use other options then to make str (and CHA, for that matter) more useful, and needed, or punish dumping somehow. There is a lot of space design for that.
Devs are against DEX to damage because STR, as is, gives nothing but hit and damage, while DEX gives AC, Initiative, Saves, and several importsnt skills like Stealth. I don't think that's a problem with DEX. It's a problem with STR.
Probably is a change too deep to affect Cord. But we are talking about Unchained there, which is the perfect spot to prsctice this mind of options.
Possible solutions could be to add STR and CON to fortitude saves, or add 1/2 STR to natural armor, or make more effects that can only be saved with a STR check (like entangle), or make some damage feats STR only, or simply make Heavy Armors way more useful (they suck now), so investing in STR, and a full plate, doesn't make you have LESS Armor than a light Armor build PLUS less movements and a huge, horrible penalty to being an adventurer (climbing, balancing, etc).
Same goes with CHA. People dump it because it's useless beyond 2-3 skills. Make a rule that says "you can only have 3+CHA bonus Magic items" and sudenly it becomes way more important. Or make it the default Stats for will saves, as it should. Or any other relevant effect that males having a -2 there hurt. Nobody dumps CON.
Those are ideas from the top oh my head, and I'm aware they aren't balanced yet and would need to rebalance some things in the rules.
TL:DR, the problem with DEX to damage for free is not that DEX is toó powerful. It's that STR sucks for every thing but damage
with the wizard being dead last in power
How so? Didn't he have access to spells like Gate, that allow you to summon monstruosities? Didn't he have access to metamagic?
But I agree. If you ban Magic item creatiomñn, or things like undetectable (or mind blank + invisibility, for that matter, which works the same and is not mythyc), or if you ban, I fon't know... spells, the gap closes. Specially with mythic, that allow mundane fighters to be not so mundane. But then, that means the gap is close in that ruleset, without Magic item creation, Undetectability, and spells. Not in the normal Pathfinder ruleset (even without simulacrum and blood money)
Other than that, it's not close.
Monk. Grappling monk with a garrote.
Forgot to out my order:
Arrive to TF
This wraps up the 7 Brotherhood chapter. They get to rest, craft, go to do personal quests, whatever.
My plan is that Lucretia has made a pacto with the witch coven. The coven is in Skull Crossing.
My Lucretia has also hidden some nuggets of gold in the river. She wants a "gold rush" that attract greedy people to TF.
Depending how thus goes, I could make for a Sleepy Hollow scene, with a Dullahan taking the head of one of the few citizens not under control the night after he speaks vs her. This is because I'm going to mix book 3 of the Shattered Star campaign, and I'd like to introduce a foreshadowing of the Dark Rider. But this is optional, and will depend on how straightforward the PCs go. If they stay a day or two gathering info, I'll do. If they go straight vs Lucy, I won't.
Once the PC face her, she's going to tell them that it's too late, Karzaug return is already a work in progress, and nothing can stop him. The PC are hopeless ahaindt the Runelord, blah,blah,blah. Then she'll sink the paradise (which already have some attached charges in the Hill) with a command word
While the PC try to save the civilians in the Paradise (presumedly, at the very least the LG cleric will do) she'll cast Dimensional door a few times in a row to get distance (or a teleport scroll, maybe, I have to think about it), and go straight ahead to skull crossing. Then Black Magga arrives to the town, and when the PC get to skull crossing, they face Lucy, the hag coven, river trolls, and papa skragg, but no ogres.