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Grand Necromancer

gustavo iglesias's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 3,237 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character.


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Today we played the session in the Aurora.

Finally I used the suggestions here, and chosed simply use "Mithril" template for glaucite (+2 DEX, -3 ACP, count as medium armor), and added the muleback cords because it gives a great feel of "servos", without giving away too much power.

I decided it was better to wait for the armor upgrades for another day, because otherwise it would frontload too much reward. The collateral damage of instant gratification is delayed frustation, and if I give the player too much in his armor now, he'll probably wont receive anything more for a long time (to try to keep a bit with WBL, which I only use as a guide, specially in this setting, but it's still important to be "in the same ballpark" at least).

I let the player (who has Technological Arms and Armor feat) that he knows the armor is incomplete. In fact, there were 4 ruined armors, and he was able to build one (using his feat) using spare parts of the 3, but several inner systems are damaged. He will be able to upgrade those later.

I think this solution is smoother, frontload less wealth (and thus produce less shortage of reward to compensate later), and let the armor organically upgrade into something better. Also, slowly upgrading your equipment with salvaged parts gives a good "Fallout feeling" in the early to mid levels, while still allowing "powerful superheroes in power armor feeling" for later, with higher levels, when the tech goes wild.

Thank you to all that contributed

To Mathmuse: my idea was that to place the armors in the room with the 4 HEV armors. Although the armors there were more suited for enviromental crisis control (HEV), that room was, in fact, a guard post. I supposed it was some sort of armory for a few marines that served in the Aurora as armed defense. There was also a set of rifles, and a set of grenades, which the feral androids took (they used the rifles as morning stars for so long that they ruined them, becoming useless as rifles)

Lord Fyre wrote:

A lot of the "sci-fi" gear is just not worth it.

Fully agree. HAve changed most of it, so it becomes *better* than magic items. The justification for being better is that most of them (specially after my modifications) require skill checks, and a bunch of them Technologist, which is a strong investment), while magic works just because a wizard did it. Also, it's an important theme in the campaign.


How did you determine the price for this?

Ad Hoc. A mithril full plate weights half as much, and gives a big bunch of bonuses (extra DEX, lower ACP). This is a weaker effect, should probably be cheaper. In fact, it's a bit overpriced for what it is, but the cost of the material is important too (an armor made of gold is expensive even if it sucks)


This Power Armor weighs in at 21,130 gold.

Normally a 7th Level character should have no item worth more then 5,875 gold (PF Core, pages. 399-400)

Of course, with the way that Paizo has priced technological items, this puts most gear out of reach.

That was my concern and that's why I was trying to look for a way to make it upgradeable (So he gets the basic stuff first, then grows up)

On a side note: by the time they leave Scrapwall, at 7th lvl, they have found not only tech gear worth much more than that (like an EMP pistol or maybe even a trauma pack plus), but also normal magic items worth more than that (such as Kulgara's secondary weapon, which is the equivalent of a +2 dagger).

Another problem with your build is that you don't normally just add magic items together. Since they would all be sharing the "Armor" slot, these should all be treated as "pluses" to the base armor or as additional enchantments per PF Core, page 549

That's true, but not the only way. There are ways to make items that are slotless, besides (as you note) making them custom items that add to other items by paying 50% more. Additionally, a few of those items are already paying the extra cost of being slotless (such as the targeting array, which is paying that cost as a ioun stone, or the wayfinder, which you can benefit from it's resonant power even if it's in your backpack. The flashlight in the helm isn't really that powerful, many items shed light for free (like a wayfinder, for example, or a few magic swords), and Filter Mask and the Eyes can simply be declared to *use* those slots.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Come to think of it, Kytons modify their bodies, and augmenting themselves with tech would not be a stretch for them, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see Kytons that act as hybrids of Borg and Greys.


Iron gods spoiler:
they already have gone that route in Iron Gods

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Harrison wrote:
Are we talking something big, slow, and heavy like the powered armor of Fallout, something slimmer and more versatile like the Iron Man armors, or maybe even something as simple as the armor worn in Mass Effect?

My answerto that is "yes"

Torbyne wrote:
I think i actually made a post about that in one of the threads when this forum first popped up, a sort of hybrid system that is largely classless.

Classless system has the same chances to happen than a system without levels. None.

Vidmaster7 wrote:

I see what your saying about planet sized structures but now that im thinking about it if it had high dr (like whatever materials its made out of) and then like 2 million hp can you really say that wouldn't work i mean if you had the lone barbarian on a star ship destroying everything in it 100 hp at a time doing 2 million would still take like days? so wouldn't you say at some point said barbarian might actually destroy the ship bot in game terms and in cinematic terms (i mean break enough stuff it should blow right?)

i suppose the ton of dice thing is problematic what if when you got to a size above colossal you started get multipliers instead of higher dice so your doing 6d6 + 20 x 5(for size)

2 million hp at 100hp per round would last 33 hours. Which means 33 barbarians could do it in one hour.

But yes, the real problem is how unwieldly the damage roll would be. If a laser rifle does like 2d6, how much damage would do a colossal sized wave motion gun, or a nuclear blast?. Or Starkiller base?
I'm going to be daring, and assume we don't think individual characters should be able to withstand such kind of damage, and that probably ships of Superstar Destroyer Executor class should be able to resist with ease the sustained fire from a laser pistol (or a composite longbow adjusted to STR 20, for that matter)

What's the point of having stats for guns that do 300d6 vs individual characters? What's the point of having ships with 100000hp and DR 250\- which are impossible to be destroyed with your 1d8 laser pistol, shooting each other 400d6 photon torpedoes (+2, if you have Weapon Specialization Photon torpedoes)?

The result is going to be the same: a PC would need to load up with "big scale" weapons to bypass "big scale DR", and any "big scale" weapon will instantly destroy a PC (and sometimes an entire city full of PC). The difference between having the 2 scales having different rules (like MechWarrior does with individual, mech, and naval combat) or having just the same scale, but with incredibly high numbers, is that you'll need to roll 400d6 several times to destroy that Klingon Warbird with your ship photon torpedoes, instead of doing like 4d6 of Starship Damage to a Starship with 50 Starship HP.

Phylotus wrote:
Counterpoint, they have another WWI tank in that same book, but the hit points have been......

Animated beings / constructs don't follow the same rules than vehicles, though.

A colossal animated object such as an animated ship has roughly 150hp, while a real colossal ship has 1200.

Sauce987654321 wrote:
it's gigantic, I get that, but its dimension doesn't make sense for it. Its square space is a giant block, but the vehicle is not. Especially considering its square space can be formed in any fashion, going by the book. It shouldn't be fully 60 x 40

Well, the real Tsar Tank was 27 feet high. The one in Rasputin Must Die is 25. It sounds well rounded.

About filling fully the space: unless you are a bloated sumo champion wearing a big floater over a space suit, I doubt you fully fill a 5' x 5' square yourself. And I don't think I'll be able to find a horse who is 10' x 10' wide.

A horse needs probably that much space to move around and fight and turn "in place", and a Tsar Tank will probably need that much space to turn around and move, which means he can't share other creatures squares in that space unless he overruns them.

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Umbral Reaver wrote:
FTL fuel as currency?

that was my idea, yes. Not exactly "fuel", but the thing that "allows FTL". In Dune, it's the melange spice, which let the Navigators to fly at FTL without crashing with random space trash. Avatar, Mass Effect, or Xcom also have elements that allow FTL in a way or another, with those elements having as well other "magic properties" that allow for other superscience (anti-gravity fields, for example). I have vague memories that Bravestarr's Kerium also had properties beyond being used as FTL enabler.

The problem with making it just "fuel", is that PC could deplete their ship (big?) fuel depot and just buy a lot of things for their chars. With an "enhabler" or "catalyst", like Melange Spice, you won't have a big amount of it in your ship.

Of course it could be used as fuel if you make it impossible to be removed from the "fuel depot" once it's installed, I suppose.

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Well, only thing we need now is a time machine that can travel to august 2017.

The new pseudomagical classes sound just perfect for the setting.

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Some kind of unobtanium should work well. Make it "melange" in Dune, or "japanium" in Mazinger Z, "Elerium" in Xcom, "element Zero" in Mass effect, "Vibranium" in Marvel, or (ironically) "unobtanium" in Avatar.

Some sort of "pseudomagically enhanced element that allow supernatural science to happen", becoming the universally wanted item that every race in the universe has an use for

FantheFlames wrote:
. One of the major things that they seemed excited about for this adventure was the technology.

Sadly, as written most of it is crap.

Compare the Veemod that gives lowlight vision (1000gp the goggles, 6000 the Veemod, uses charges per hour, need to be activsted) with Eyes of the Owl (4000gp, always constant, no maintenance).

You coudl do the same with Trauma Packs and just potions of healing, and many other comparable items.

Technology in general is much more expensive, more limited, and require charges to do the same than regular magic. Which is a pity, because it should be the shinning star in this AP.

That's why I changed most of it, and ditched price and gold so you don't have a huge oportunity cost for each tech item

One of my characters is a gun Tank. He wants to be a space marine/SPARTAN soldier /N7 armor guy, which I think it's cool and fits with the game.

Two problems:
The real power suit armor is an artifact, and you use them when the campaign is going to end, and the rest of scifi armors suck. Spacesuit is unwieldly, with huge ACP, low AC and no DEX.HEV suit is the same. Smart armor is just a worse adamantine fullplate which chews charges for breakfast.

So I decided to build a custom magic item that works as "standard" power armor, but I'm looking for advice. I'm going to put it in the Aurora, in place of the 4 ruined HEV suits, trading enough treasure away to balance out the stuff.

I want it to feel like it's worth it, but not make it so powerful as the real artifact. My idea is to combine a few cheap magical/tech items into a single suit, integrated. The total cost should be lower than a HEV suit. I'm not sure what to add or not. I want it to have several utility powers, without being to good combat wise. Also, as he probably wont upgrade it in a while, it should last (quite) a few levels. It might work as "standard power armor" later for some TL dudes as well,in 5th book.

Here is what I think it could be nice:

+1 full plate of glaucite (about 6500gp, weights half as much)

Deflecting Shield (as Ring of Protection +1) 1000gp.

Servos: Muleback cords 1000gp (Gives the "powered" feel without using +enhance str which is worth too much)

Targeting array (equivalent to cracked ioun pale green, +1 competence to hit) 4000gp.
Inner Compass (equivalent to wayfinder) 500gp

Inner stimulant injector (equivalent to ioun stone resonant power) free

Filter mask (4000gp)

Flashlight (30gp)

Enhanced vision (eye of the owl, low light vision) 4000

Power Fist (equivalent to grippers) 100gp

Probably should drop a few of those. Dunno which. Also, maybe someone has a good idea for some other minor magic items to be placed, or a different approach.

Maybe giving just the +1 full plate if glaucite, then adding the rest as upgrades during different parts of the AP?

Edit: as a side note: buying and selling items in thus campaign is almost imposible, as I removed gold and most people just barter what they have, with little to none "magic shops" and no "on demand" construction for the most part, ulike my regular campaings where I let buy and sell normally. So I need to railor the items a bit more for the PC, as they cant sell junk magic items and transform them into the Big 6

Grimcleaver wrote:

That's funny. I came in here going "well as long as they don't use credits I'm fine, credits are so boring". Gets that shows how much in the mainstream I am. Heh.

Honestly I think a form of digital money make the most sense, I just hope they can find something fresh to call them--credits gets used so much it's dead to me.

An economy based on charges of magical energy stored in small high tech phylacteries would be fun. Especially if you could siphon those energies directly to power stylum--the tech equivalent of wands (sort of like a wand rifle mixed with an IPod).

In my Iron Gods campaign, I use a post apocalyptyc world and money is useless. We use bartering, with Food, Water, Fuel, Bullets, Medicine and Silverdisk being the mist commonly used trade goids to store value. Silverdisk are specially useful, they are coin sized disks that store 10 charges which you can use for recharging tech items.

Btw, the handheld wand like device you mention us a rip off Sonic Screwdriver in my game

Sauce987654321 wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?

Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????

Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!

But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels

Or just give them hardness 50, but ship based weapons ignore 50 points of hardness
That's more or less what we are suggesting. "Ship scale" weapons having some short of rule to make them necessary to fight ship scale threats. DR\ship is a way. I don't think DR 50 will suffice, tho. A WWI tank in Pathfinder has almost 2000hp.
Hah, there's no way that's a WW1 tank. Did you look at its dimensions? It's the size of a small building.

It's actually a Tsar Tank

But the Dark Tapestry is exactly what I mean with borrowing stuff. Paizo is not making HP Lovecraft world a part of his world. There is no need for that. They just borrow the names, looks, and myth, and use them in their own way. You don't need a place called Dunwich and a place called Massachussets and someone called Wilbur Whateley to use Yog Shothoth. Your example above with Supernatural using part of the Bible Myth in their own way it's the same. They are using something called angels, and devils, and the Horsemen, and such. But they are not the angels and devils and Horsemen that we found in the bible. They don't go through the same myth, the apocalypse does not start the same way, there is a different creation story, the war among them is not the same, Supernatural Leviathans are not sea monsters like the Bible Leviathan...

It's pretty different to add or steal elements of a myth or a group of myths, than saying "myth X is part of this world, and myth Y is too, and both are fundamentally true, even if myth X says that myth Y can't exist".

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Lucus Palosaari wrote:


ICV2 reported that Tabletop RPGs were up to $35 million last year, and also that Paizo was #2 after WotC for Spring 2016 quarter, over even Star Wars RPG.

It sounds like a big number, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to what board and card games are bringing in.

It's possible that Magic the Gathering made more money in the first quarter of 2016, than Pathfinder has done since its birth.

Maybe you don't need a vehicle, just vehicle sized damage.

I'm thinking now of how AD&D handled army to army Combat in Birhtright. When in mass Combat you could use Realm Spells, and Magic Missile became "Rain of Magic Missile" and could do 1 "army hit damage", instead of 5d4+5 normal hp. You could cast "invisible unit" on your batallion, and so on. Maybe while in a ship, empowered by the ship magic engine, you can enhance your magic/psionic/whatever ability so your invisibility spell becomes "ship invisibility" and you can channel your fireball into a "photon torpedo sized fireball"

You might not be able to kill a AT-AT with your infantry sized laser pistol, but you could use your Fat Boy to throw a Mini Nuke at it. Your rapid fire feat might work with your ship's Battery of Naval Cannons. Point blank shot could work at 30 "space parsecs", the average short range for ship combat.

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A list if templates would be nice.such as "artic world" or "megacity world".

Then you could slap that into whatever you could have artic world elves, human, lashunta, Ratfolk...

Hitdice wrote:
Gilfalas wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
I'd say Vulcans, but we already have Elves.

Lawful Good elves? Fascinating...

How about these?

I'm fine with Vulcans being Lawful, but Good? *Most illogical.*

Probably there is just ONE lawful good Vulcan in the galaxy

Luthorne wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Luthorne wrote:

Besides, sounds too much like the GM saying 'oh, you thought you were competent, have something you can't do anything against without using this subsystem, you've been paying your feat taxes and skill taxes and upgrading your spaceship, riiiiiight?' as all the players swear as their characters become useless

Really? Your GM puts your Jedi in a Star fighter battle, abd that's your feeling? It's not "we are doing a space battle because this is Star Wars and you know, there is a starship battle in every single SW film and he wants to get that feel" but "my GM hates me and don't want me to use my optimized light saber Skill"?

When did Star Wars enter this? I would have completely refused to even play in a Star Wars game, so I can't imagine that ever arising in the first place...

There is also ship to ship or vehicke to vehicle Combat in Star Trek, Battlestar Galáctica, Babylon 5, Battle tech, firefly, WH40K, and a lot of other examples of the genre that probably will be in the game. Mainly becsuse the post that snnounced the game tslks about Spaceships and armadas doing space blockades.

Would ship to ship Combat be required? Of course not. Just like Energy Drain monsters aren't required in PF, you can have a full AP and never face one. Your GM might never use one in his story, just like he might never use a demon, or a dragon. But I'm pretty sure that a space game will have Spaceships,and I'm prerty sure than to fight Spaceships you'll need Spaceships

Luthorne wrote:

Besides, sounds too much like the GM saying 'oh, you thought you were competent, have something you can't do anything against without using this subsystem, you've been paying your feat taxes and skill taxes and upgrading your spaceship, riiiiiight?' as all the players swear as their characters become useless

Really? Your GM puts your Jedi in a Star fighter battle, abd that's your feeling? It's not "we are doing a space battle because this is Star Wars and you know, there is a starship battle in every single SW film and he wants to get that feel" but "my GM hates me and don't want me to use my optimized light saber Skill"?

JoelF847 wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?

Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????

Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!

But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels

Or just give them hardness 50, but ship based weapons ignore 50 points of hardness

That's more or less what we are suggesting. "Ship scale" weapons having some short of rule to make them necessary to fight ship scale threats. DR\ship is a way. I don't think DR 50 will suffice, tho. A WWI tank in Pathfinder has almost 2000hp. Imagine the HP of a submarine. Or a battleship. Or a carrier. Or a Space carrier. Or a Space Battle Station. We are talking about MILLIONS of Hp. It's boring as hell to roll enough dice to deplete that. It's easier just change the scale. Otherwise, damage becomes impossible to handle. Currently a laser pistola does 1d8. Láser rifle 2d6. Láser cannon, up to 6d6. A rocket launcher, 12d6. What about a hellfire missile? A tomahawk cruise missile? What about ICBM? Or nuclear weapons? Probably the Death Star should survive *a few* nuclear weapons, just becsuse if size (not counting chsin reactions in wesk spot)

In mechwarrior, a normal rifle has just s chance to do 1point of damage vs a mech. A mech Medium Laser wipes five humans per hit. And mechs are actually small. Dropships are what we are talking about here.

Luthorne wrote:
So vehicles should be the new Big Six, except even more so, since even Pathfinder doesn't say you can't do anything without an amulet of natural armor?

Well, for space Combat, sure, you'll need a starfighter or ship of some kind.

Did you expect to fight Tie Fighters and Klingon Birds of Prey flying in space with an astronaut suit and doing flurry of blows with your bare hands against ships flying at near light speed?
Spaceships in a space game are like pirate ships in a pirate game. Pretty much expected.

Edit: also a big difference with the big six is that yuou are "forced" to buy the big six. Lke did not buy an Xwing to fight the Death Star, or a landspeeder to fight AT-ATs in Hoth. He was assigned to them, as part of his adventure. Just like James T. Kirk snd Spock did not buy the USS Enterprise. But yes,. If the adventure includes a space fight (and I expect those to be common), then you'll need a space fighter.

Sauce987654321 wrote:
Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?

Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????

Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!

But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels

Dracoknight wrote:

Well Gilfalas, the point is not that of hating another culture, but rather hate the person and by proxy the culture due to the overexposure of this single invidual.

I think the keyword is "overexposure" where the offender is borderline or crossed into the land of the fanatical, and "weebs" sometimes go into the same camp as "Japanphiles" or similar people who claim X culture is the best.

But in the end, its just annoyances that go too far.

That definition works too for many western tropes, likecthe dude who always play the "holier than thou" paladin or the "I have a dark side" inquisitor, the n-esim dual wielding drow, the crom-worshipping barbarian or Legolas XXVII

to clarify the general meaning of what i'm getting at is by try hard is something that is very cliched or tries to look cool to the point that it becomes annoying and just not cool.

Maybe I'm missing something, but... why do you want to annoy the rest of the players?

Sauce987654321 wrote:
Colossal is the maximum size category, the only thing that changes from there on is size and reach, which is not influenced by CR

Well, the entire point of this conversation is that someone suggested that this should change, because there is too much "room" for colossal to fit all monsters from Godzilla to a planet-sized Green Lantern. I mean, it's the same -size modifier to hit a building or to hit the planet where that building is?

Not to mention that a single X-wing destroyed the Death Star. It's not like the X-wing had to be the size of a planet to do this. I know it was a chain reaction, but the end result is still the end result.

It's completelly different to attack a nuclear generator inside a planet sized Battle Station, which can be done by anyone, and then the nuclear reactor exploding, than the same character hacking and slashing the Death Star into pieces.

The Hulk analogy is good, the problem is that players who chose to play with a scoundrel wielding a laser pistol will also be able to destroy planet sized battle stations (or, you know, Absalom itself), assuming the game is somewhat balanced and "scoundrel" and "raging barbarian" classes are in the same ballpark of damage.

I'm totally pro-epic stuff, and I understand that high level characters are close to demigods. I'm tottally fond of high level characters punching Shai Hulud to death, slicing Godzilla into pieces, and sniping Galactus with a single well placed headshot. BUT in a setting so open as this, there are some things that are far beyond that, such as planet-sized creatures, Solar-system sized ships, or Galaxy-sized energy beings older than gods.
Sure, we could handle those by giving them DR 1million\- and sixty million hp, and then making things like the Death Star cannon, or giant sized anti-matter missiles or whatever doing 2 million d6.
But it'll be a lot of die to roll, when it's not needed, imho.

EDIT: said otherwise: by rules, stone has 15hp per inch of thickness. How many HP does Alderaan has, then? How many d6 does the Death Star need to roll to destroy it? What's the point of having the Death Star cannon and a laser pistol shot sharing the same "scale" of damage?

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Let's see if I can explain what I mean, with a better example, rooted in real world:

The God of the Christians, and the Olympian Gods, can't coexist. The God of Christians (and muslims and jews) is, by their own myths and beliefs, the only one god that exist. Therefore, it excludes the possibility of other gods. It also excludes, of course, the possibility of Pharasma being the one who rules over souls, and other stuff.

IF Earth, including Bible era, exist in Golarion, either the God of Christians is not the only god (and then, he's not the God of Christians but a facsimile), or he is the only god, and then Zeus, Thor, the Orishas or Pharasma are just a big lie or dudes impersonating as gods.

That's just an example of how some universes can't coexist. Some universes can, many universes could, but only if those universes have fake mythologies or if their own creation myths are not true. We can, of course, take that route: we could decide that the bible is not true, and the olypmic gods are real gods, or the other way around. We can bassically adapt any one of them to our Starfinder. But *all* of them, it's not possible unless we decide that the creators of those universes didn't really know what was happening in their worlds.

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Dexion1619 wrote:
I'll also say that I really like the Art direction!

so much yeah.

The kasatha technowizard or whatever he (she?) is, looks perfect. Exactly the blend of sci-fi and fantasy I was hoping for

Sauce987654321 wrote:
gbonehead wrote:

Independent question: any chance Starfinder will try to address rules for sizes above colossal? Once we're dealing with starships and, theoretially, creatures the size of asteroids, it would be cool to have them actually be different at a fundamental level - kind of like swarms, where they're too small to be harmed by weapons - perhaps creatures above colossal are too large to be harmed by weapons more than 4 size categories smaller. There was a 3.5 book back in the day that had some above colossal rules, ah, Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary.

I seem to recall a mention of an attempt as part of the mythic rules (maybe it was along with kaiju), but with the design team deciding it was too large a task to sneak in. That's based on hazy recollection of old board posts, of course, the reality is probably different.

In any event, it's been a hole since kaiju were introduced; be cool to have it filled.

I would hate if they made larger colossal monsters/kaiju immune to smaller weapons and it wouldn't make sense if they even did that. Your overall ability to harm something should be determined by CR, not what size they are. That's the whole point in having very high AC, DR, and other resistances, to make something seem invincible to weaker creature.

If you don't like the idea that very high level PCs can harm Kaiju-like creatures, it's important to understand these PCs aren't ordinary warriors, like something you would see in a movie like Gladiator or Braveheart. They're godlike beings that are meant to accomplish the seemingly impossible.

Well, Kaijus are probably around Colossal size, or just a bit bigger than that. They should be possible to damage by normal sized heroes, probably.

However, we are not talking about the same scale here. Luke Skywalker destroying a AT-AT with his lightsaber? Totally cool. Luke Skywalkerdestroying the Death Star with his lightsaber? That's enterely different.

Ferocity is a great trait because you can trade it for +1 luck Bonus to saves

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Piccolo wrote:

The Alchemist is obviously based upon 1880's "Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde". It doesn't belong in a fantasy setting inspired by medieval European technology and magic. In other words, The Alchemist, Monk, Ninja, Samurai, Gunslinger etc just don't fit the mileu. Some GM's are okay with that, others are not (obviously).

That's true.

The problem however is that Golarion is not a Fantasy setting inspired by medieval europesn technology and magic. It's inspired by James Jacobs own Home Campaign, which is a mashup of things and heavily tech influenced.

If Golarion was a europesn middle age but with magic, then we would not have Numeria, or Alkenstar, snd Elves would not be plsnet hopping travelers who Hide themselves in Venus while ancient aboleths conjure a meteor to kill everybody

captain yesterday wrote:
I do actually agree that 6 level casters are the beeznees.

Me too

Phylotus wrote:
Gyor wrote:

I thought about Elf Cyborg, but that's feels to Shadowrunish.

And that's... bad?

It may not be an elf, but I know the character I want to play will either be cybered up (if that's an option) or be an Android, so I'm fully embracing that sort of thing as a player :-P The only problem being that I'm probably going to have to be the GM of my group, whom I will be dragging kicking and screaming if I have to!

100% chances that cybernetics are an option.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Well, that depends. Are Jedi more like Space Wizards (a tally more like Kineticists), or more like Clerics?

Like monks

Yes, but that would be compatible with other stories where reality is also modeled as a multiverse. You could say Golarion is in one of Marvel multiverses, or DC infinite Earths, or Stephen King's The Dark Tower. But it's incompatible with universes which are not built that way, unless we assume people in that universe are wrong, or the universe does not work as the author that created it said it did.

It's not like matter, though. 99% of the people would not use those multiverses and those who do, will care themselves about any compatibility.

Myself, I preffer to "steal" things, shamelessly. For example, I'm going to use a band of dudes pretty much like Mad Max: fury road warboys, shouting "Witness me!" and everything, in my Iron God campaign. No need to add Max himself, or Mad Max story, etc. Pretty much like Numeria take things from John Carter of Mars, without needing to use Mars, or Carter, or a princess.

Yep, it's possible for a GM to drop Earth in Golarion Universe. Thing is: if Rasputin is a wizard related to baba yaga then he is not a Malkavian from World of Darkness, or a Mutant, great-grandfather of X-Men's Colossus.

Unless we are talking about different universes with different rules. Then Marvel is in Golarion Universe just as much as Golarion is in Marvel's

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Gollum was a kender, not a gnome.

Tom Bombadil on the other hand, was not a kender.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:

{. . .}

You have not addressed my quote, from Darth Plagueis.
{. . .}

Consider the source. Of course Darth Plagueis would want you to believe that certain things just can't be done without the Dark Side. To use Force Lightning, Yoda might have to jump through hoops equivalent to using a Miracle or Wish to duplicate a normally forbidden spell, but as we have seen, Yoda could probably jump through hoops just fine while in combat.

After all, what are Jedi going to do if a friend has a heart attack and they are stuck without a working defibrillator? Can't let the Sith have the monopoly on the obvious solution to that . . . .

I think you are just doing acrobatics around the issue.

Yes, just like With Spell Turning redirecting back an Evil Spell, you would use a Wish to get an evil effect. Same thing in Pathfinder, you would Wish for Animate Dead

But the Spell being copied is still evil. In SW lore, needs you to be Evil or being trained as such, becsuse beyobd the mechanic (ie: 10d6 lightning damage) there is a fluff, a lore. You need to reject compassion to project that power. Just like to animate dead, you need to tie souls to dead bodies and such thing is evil. You would get similar or better mechanical effects in different wys (such as a force push that does 10d6 damage, or animate object for more HD). But this is a RPG, and background, story, and lore matter.

Animate Dead us evil,Sith zpowers are evil. If you want those powers just make an evil character, it's legal. Truth be told, if your character thinks that "ends justify means" and aninating undead or summoning devils is OK if you do it for the right cause, "evil" is the alignment you should be playing anyeays per PF terms.

Tectorman wrote:

He may or may not have the ability (or merely just the inclination) to use Force Lightning on his own. But what we do know he does have is the ability to take an incoming Force Lightning and negate it or redirect it. And even if he redirects it, he has 360 degrees by 360 degrees of directions to send it, only one of which is occupied by a living person. And once he's taken that Force Lightning (regardless of who originally created it) and attempted to use that power to harm another, then why is he not just as culpable as if he'd created it his own self?

Because there are extenuating circumstances to that event. We are allowed to recognize that Yoda's target is a Sith Lord, who requires nothing, literally nothing, be left on the table in order to defeat, and so Yoda gets to use Force Lightning and still be good.

Sorry for being late in answer.'s because generating Force Lightning is evil, deflecting energy is not. It's not relevant what he is doing (save an orphan, or killing him) as that is a different issue.

You have not addressed my quote, from Darth Plagueis. Just GENERATING the lightning requires that you have a thirst for power, a lack of compassion, snd acceptancec of the consequences of gathering power. Requires being evil, bassically. It doesnt matter if you are trying to use it to save a princess kidnapped by a dragon (or an evil turtle). If you don't have that thirst and lack of compassion, you can't generate it.

OTOH, deflecting energy is a different power, that require a different mental state. Probably needs you to be calm, and focused, or whatever. Yoda CAN do those things. What he can't do is to generate force lightning, because he has compassion, and does not have thirst for power.

This is like using Blasphemy or unholy word vs using Spell Turning. Or using animate dead vs using control undead. And is a great example of alignment attached to mechanics.

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Dune, Star Wars,Warhammer 40k and Star Trek, have all of them religions as part of their Core. Marvel Cinematic Universe has actually the Gods themselves running around. So does DC with Darkseid abd Orion abd such. Dragonstar, Spelljsmmer, Fading Suns have religions as well. So does Avatar, Stargate, and Mutant Chronicles and several others. Many of them give powers or the equivalent of spells.

Starfinder will have it's own pantheon, of course. But it's not like religion is a foreign concept to Sci -Fi (and even more to sci-fantasy). Put Aroden in a Golden Throne and you have one of WH40k's religions.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Even, though he absorbs both of Count Dooku's Force Lightning attacks, he does have the ability to use Force Lightning, whether using the absorbed energy or his own to do it

He doesnt have such ability, no more than a 13th level wizsrd who cast Spell Turning has the "ability to use Blasphemy" against a 13th lvl Evil Cleric.

He has the ability to absorb snd deflect force lightning, which is a defensive Skill. He doesnt have the sbility to cast them because (as quoted above) such thing require a thirst for power, lack of compassion, snd acceptamce of the consequences. Something Siths can do, but Yoda is not willing to.


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But casting an evil spell like Blasphemy is totally different to cast Spell Turning to bounce it back.

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Rise of Runelords.... IN SPACE!

Force lightning requires strength of a sort only a Sith can command because we accept consequence and reject compassion. To do so requires a thirst for power that is not easily satisfied
-Darth Plagueis, Sith Lord.

I suspect that deflect ray, or whatever is the name of what Yoda and Windu did, do not require "reject compassion" and "a thirst for power", thus being fundamentally different to the Sith's lightning power.

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The Raven Black wrote:
I am beginning to entertain the heretical notion that action economy is not the problem at high levels. A single BBEG able to withstand any and all attacks that PCs can deliver in one round would be great on condition that he does not annihilate them on his own turn

Problem with that is how.

There are two ways: one way is through defenses (AC, Saves,Inmunity),the other way through sheer hp or other ablative defenses (such as having 3-5 "free dodges", or igniring the first failed save).

Both share a problem: table variance. A lvl 20 guy with 1000hp, but normal defenses, will still fall in 1 round vs optimized damage dealers, while dragging the Combat a lot vs non optimized. It's a common problem in 4e, specially in first snd second Monster manuals. It was nicknamed "the padded sumo wrestling match".

The second option, having high AC, id frustrating for players (you want to hit and be meaningful), and it crashes with the problem of disparity. Anything hard enough to hit to make fighter miss, will make rogues unplayable, as they have a huge difference in to hit Bonus. Specially if we are talking about optimized fighter vs unoptimized rogue. You need a balance there, the BBEG being able yo survive, but thf Combat not being frustrating.

I think the action economy is easier to address, and also more important.

ryric wrote:
thejeff wrote:

So how do I get the Advanced Template? I'd like to play a character with that.

In my games? Pitch me a concept for an Advanced Human or whatever and we'll talk.

Why wouldn't that work for a"boss template"? Boss (or "elite" or 'paragon" or "legendary", or whatever name you want) could be just like "Advanced" with a couple extra stufff (like sone resistance to crowd control or abilities to act out of your turn, etc). Make it a template just like Advanced (or Giant, or Vampire for that matter) and let GMs decide, like you, if they want to hive this template to their PCs, just like they can let their players br "Advanced" or "Giant" or "Vampire" or "fire infused" or "hslf-fiend" if they want

I'm not sure how much water holds the argument that Starfinder should not have any alignment because a differentanf unrelated sci-fantasy franchise might or might not have powers attached to being evil. Star Wars has it's own internal consistency, that is different to Starfinder's

Especially when the answer is that said power IS attached to the dark side (forcé lightning is also called "sith lightning", and the few non-sith or dark jedi users that can control it are renowned for "dips" in the dark side (like Kyle Katarn,galen marek or Mace Windu)

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