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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Even if that were true, there's nothibg in the Iomedae's Light vessel that could not work in current naval rules. So the rule complexity level is not a problem for Iomedae's Light being a vslid example, or deemed as too powerful.
I fully expect Starfinder being based in personal Combat, like Star Wars is based around Jedi's personal Combat. However, there are several ship fights in every Star Wars film. I also fully expect Starfinder to have several ship combats in every Adventure path.
Jamie Charlan wrote:
Yes there is. The fact that your GM told you not to roll initiative but play a chase is a good hint, but in any case, if you think Gandalf is a level one liar and you don't trust him, then the point is moot because your character is still in The Shire as they never believed they should run to hide that Ring.
The thing is: combats are there to give action to the common storytelling, to advance the plot, and because they are fun. Combats where you have to flee can fulfill all of those, such as the Balrog, and they keep the PC under the impression that there are stronger things out there. Random encounters in a table that the PC cannot defeat do not help the storytelling, do not advance the plot, and often aren't fun, they are just frustrating by either presenting an invulnerable threat you can't damage, or anunstopable force that you can't survive.
The only thing those random unbeatable encounters do, is to placate the bloodlust of adversarial GM that want to win a combat to the PCs and flex their muscles to show off that they are in control of the game and the PC lives.
Jamie Charlan wrote:
He'll never be able to run in round -3, let alone round 1, without big changes from what was in the rest of the d20 system.
It also makes certain tropes (likecthe heavy Armor fighter) literally unplayable, as they don't have the mobility or resources needed to outrun an enemy or Hide from them, effectivrñy becoming the sacrificial redshirt
This is why this kind of encounters work better when they are obvious: the wizard NPC warns you that "swords are no more use here now", and shouts "run, you fools" while the GM tells the players not to toll initiative because it's going to be a chase scene.
Mark Carlson 255 wrote:
Thing is, RPGs aren't designed to simulate rseal life, but to simulate novela, gilms, cómics and other fictions.you are there to be Conan or Beowulf, not a random germsnic barbarian who died from infection two days after a minor wound in real life II century.
And while héroes have yo run sometimes from powerful enemies (The Balrog of moría being a prime example, but also the first dencounter with a dragon in Skyrim, or Han/Luke fleeing from Darth Vader first time they met, etc) it is often more a scripted thing made to advance the plot than a random encounter made so the Gm can satisfy his desires yo "win a fight" here and there.
Problem in your post is that it's basically saying that STR should be useless and never used and everybody should dump it, always. Which is not the best of ideas when talking about game balance.
To be honest, that's like saying a nuke launcher with laser sight is more terrifying than a nuke launcher.
Once you are dead, extra damage is pointless, and Cthulhu is kind of deadly as is.
The dice itself is not relevant to the stories you tell. The system however, is. Number crunching systems with lots of detail tebd to push the game more into Combat (and rule-lawyering), while systems like White Wolf's suck so much when doing Combat that you tend to do other things just to avoid the chore.
Simply adding a player-driven narrative mechanic like Hero Points changes a lot of the feel. Nowadays, I play 75% of combats without a grid, and that changes the game mood a lot too.
Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
Or you could tie accuracy to dex and damage to Str.
But then Wolverine would be a worse combatant than Spiderman (assuming same level), just because he is less agile. While in Marvel, Wolverine Fighting is Incredible (40) but his agility is just Remarkable (30), while Spidey has Amazing (50) agility, but his fighting is Remarkable (30). Or a better example, Thor, has Unearthly Fighting (100) but just excellent agility (20),because he is a God of war trained for millenia, but he is not an acrobat.
That's the beauty of Marvel's FASERIP system about combat. Those who should be good at fighting, get a high fighting stat. And they don't need to become good at carrying weight or sneaking around just becsuse fighting is tied to stats that fo different things, unrelated to fighting,b because Fighting itself is dissociated from other physical stats. Agility or strength are still useful (help to Dodge or do more damage), but the ability used to fight is different
The Raven Black wrote:
Something as archaic as the weight of a precious metal sounds less scifi. So don't think the pound will cut it.Maybe something like latin solidus, from which the french Sou, the spanish sueldo (which also means salary) and which is tied to the value of a soldier's work.
Unless a pound is the price of a pound of melange spice. Then I'm totally pro it
Ched Greyfell wrote:
Unless you are Christopher Lambert.
Str adds to attack not only because of Armor Penetration, but also because being strong helps to swing faster. Otherwise, you should not be able to add str vs some enemied that might not have Armor or Natural Armor, like a naked monk or pixies or whatever.
Problem is that str is the easiest stat to bump. There are far more creatures with STR 28 than there are with any other ability at 28 (probably more than all the other stats combined), and you get huge size bonuses to STR, far greater thananything rlse you can get in any other stat.+16 STR for an eidolon Evolution, for example.
And this go back yo the "STR=Accuracy" problem. A Monster like an Hill Giant should swing extremelly dangerous but innacurate blows. It's a trope,part of how those brutes fight: they swing around a dead tree trunk, which the Hero dodges all the time because the brute is slow and dumb and poorly trained, but the danger is there,as a single hit is terrifying.
Problem is, high STR also makes you adeadly accurate fighter, so the brute doesn't miss that much. Then they have to introduce size penalty to hit for melee, which doesn't make much sense (it does for ranged, tho), just to counteract this.
A fighting abilty, different than Dex or Str, would help this very well. You could have a big fighting ability if you are fierce (like Marvel's Wolverine or a direbadger or aurumvorax, or if you are highly trained like Captain America or a Fire Giant or martial artist, or becsuse you are very fastand graceful like Daredevil or a panther or an elvrn swordmen. The fact it is disocciated from DEX or STR means you can make sone of those very good at fighting, without making them disproportionally strong or nimble. I think it helps to accurately descript many tropes.
But, again, I don't think they'll remove themselves from Pathfinder ruleset for this, and I don't think they should. PF rule compatibility is an appeal by itself, Abd anyway,fixing sone broken things with a different ruleset might break other things
I also used Fallout inspired stuff in my game. The Technic League has 2 factions, the Brotherhood and the Institute. The Brotherhood is more martial, seeks for tech, and uses the Gearmen (instead of Fallout T-60 power armor), while the Institute is more subtle.
They even had the Prydwen entrance in Torch after Lords of Rusts.
I made stronger TL conections with the Choking Tower and Valley of Brain Collectors. Furkas is still a TL agent. He teached Marrow how lobotomize, and lobotomized one of the PC's wife, during hus experiments with the thought harvester. They are looking for the Neurocam in hopes that this will help them to restore his wife's mind.
Next clue is another TL agent, Therace, who is also learning about human Brain and inteligente, using a different approach (he tries to study the Mi Go tech, ironically.
I think the books 3 and 4 are less connected, but they are good books, you just need to build a connection with your PCs (even if it's not a big connection with Unity)
Marvel's FASE- RIP has fighting stat, and it works well. It helps perfectly to make a distinction between characters that are really good at fighting, such as Wolverine or Captain America, from characters that are merely really strong, like Doc Samson or Juggernaut. It makes sense in that Universe that Wolverine fights much better than Colossus, even if Colossus is several times stronger and they are arguabily the same level. And yes, there are feats, but "Weapon Focus: claws" is not going to offset the huge difference in base stats.
It helps to solve Pathfinder problem with brute-like creatures, like Ogres, where being a heavy-hitter also makes you an accurate attacker. This last part could also work if the rules to make creatures/npc could be dissociated from PC rules, so an ogre could have lots of HP, big strength, and terrifying damage, because it makes sense for an ogre, without meaning that he becomes instantly accurate because HD means BAB and STR adds to hit.
Today we played the session in the Aurora.
Finally I used the suggestions here, and chosed simply use "Mithril" template for glaucite (+2 DEX, -3 ACP, count as medium armor), and added the muleback cords because it gives a great feel of "servos", without giving away too much power.
I decided it was better to wait for the armor upgrades for another day, because otherwise it would frontload too much reward. The collateral damage of instant gratification is delayed frustation, and if I give the player too much in his armor now, he'll probably wont receive anything more for a long time (to try to keep a bit with WBL, which I only use as a guide, specially in this setting, but it's still important to be "in the same ballpark" at least).
I let the player (who has Technological Arms and Armor feat) that he knows the armor is incomplete. In fact, there were 4 ruined armors, and he was able to build one (using his feat) using spare parts of the 3, but several inner systems are damaged. He will be able to upgrade those later.
I think this solution is smoother, frontload less wealth (and thus produce less shortage of reward to compensate later), and let the armor organically upgrade into something better. Also, slowly upgrading your equipment with salvaged parts gives a good "Fallout feeling" in the early to mid levels, while still allowing "powerful superheroes in power armor feeling" for later, with higher levels, when the tech goes wild.
Thank you to all that contributed
To Mathmuse: my idea was that to place the armors in the room with the 4 HEV armors. Although the armors there were more suited for enviromental crisis control (HEV), that room was, in fact, a guard post. I supposed it was some sort of armory for a few marines that served in the Aurora as armed defense. There was also a set of rifles, and a set of grenades, which the feral androids took (they used the rifles as morning stars for so long that they ruined them, becoming useless as rifles)
Lord Fyre wrote:
Fully agree. HAve changed most of it, so it becomes *better* than magic items. The justification for being better is that most of them (specially after my modifications) require skill checks, and a bunch of them Technologist, which is a strong investment), while magic works just because a wizard did it. Also, it's an important theme in the campaign.
Ad Hoc. A mithril full plate weights half as much, and gives a big bunch of bonuses (extra DEX, lower ACP). This is a weaker effect, should probably be cheaper. In fact, it's a bit overpriced for what it is, but the cost of the material is important too (an armor made of gold is expensive even if it sucks)
That was my concern and that's why I was trying to look for a way to make it upgradeable (So he gets the basic stuff first, then grows up)On a side note: by the time they leave Scrapwall, at 7th lvl, they have found not only tech gear worth much more than that (like an EMP pistol or maybe even a trauma pack plus), but also normal magic items worth more than that (such as Kulgara's secondary weapon, which is the equivalent of a +2 dagger).
Another problem with your build is that you don't normally just add magic items together. Since they would all be sharing the "Armor" slot, these should all be treated as "pluses" to the base armor or as additional enchantments per PF Core, page 549
That's true, but not the only way. There are ways to make items that are slotless, besides (as you note) making them custom items that add to other items by paying 50% more. Additionally, a few of those items are already paying the extra cost of being slotless (such as the targeting array, which is paying that cost as a ioun stone, or the wayfinder, which you can benefit from it's resonant power even if it's in your backpack. The flashlight in the helm isn't really that powerful, many items shed light for free (like a wayfinder, for example, or a few magic swords), and Filter Mask and the Eyes can simply be declared to *use* those slots.
Iron gods spoiler:
they already have gone that route in Iron Gods
2 million hp at 100hp per round would last 33 hours. Which means 33 barbarians could do it in one hour.
But yes, the real problem is how unwieldly the damage roll would be. If a laser rifle does like 2d6, how much damage would do a colossal sized wave motion gun, or a nuclear blast?. Or Starkiller base?
What's the point of having stats for guns that do 300d6 vs individual characters? What's the point of having ships with 100000hp and DR 250\- which are impossible to be destroyed with your 1d8 laser pistol, shooting each other 400d6 photon torpedoes (+2, if you have Weapon Specialization Photon torpedoes)?
The result is going to be the same: a PC would need to load up with "big scale" weapons to bypass "big scale DR", and any "big scale" weapon will instantly destroy a PC (and sometimes an entire city full of PC). The difference between having the 2 scales having different rules (like MechWarrior does with individual, mech, and naval combat) or having just the same scale, but with incredibly high numbers, is that you'll need to roll 400d6 several times to destroy that Klingon Warbird with your ship photon torpedoes, instead of doing like 4d6 of Starship Damage to a Starship with 50 Starship HP.
it's gigantic, I get that, but its dimension doesn't make sense for it. Its square space is a giant block, but the vehicle is not. Especially considering its square space can be formed in any fashion, going by the book. It shouldn't be fully 60 x 40
Well, the real Tsar Tank was 27 feet high. The one in Rasputin Must Die is 25. It sounds well rounded.
About filling fully the space: unless you are a bloated sumo champion wearing a big floater over a space suit, I doubt you fully fill a 5' x 5' square yourself. And I don't think I'll be able to find a horse who is 10' x 10' wide.
A horse needs probably that much space to move around and fight and turn "in place", and a Tsar Tank will probably need that much space to turn around and move, which means he can't share other creatures squares in that space unless he overruns them.
Umbral Reaver wrote:
FTL fuel as currency?
that was my idea, yes. Not exactly "fuel", but the thing that "allows FTL". In Dune, it's the melange spice, which let the Navigators to fly at FTL without crashing with random space trash. Avatar, Mass Effect, or Xcom also have elements that allow FTL in a way or another, with those elements having as well other "magic properties" that allow for other superscience (anti-gravity fields, for example). I have vague memories that Bravestarr's Kerium also had properties beyond being used as FTL enabler.
The problem with making it just "fuel", is that PC could deplete their ship (big?) fuel depot and just buy a lot of things for their chars. With an "enhabler" or "catalyst", like Melange Spice, you won't have a big amount of it in your ship.
Of course it could be used as fuel if you make it impossible to be removed from the "fuel depot" once it's installed, I suppose.
Some kind of unobtanium should work well. Make it "melange" in Dune, or "japanium" in Mazinger Z, "Elerium" in Xcom, "element Zero" in Mass effect, "Vibranium" in Marvel, or (ironically) "unobtanium" in Avatar.
Some sort of "pseudomagically enhanced element that allow supernatural science to happen", becoming the universally wanted item that every race in the universe has an use for
. One of the major things that they seemed excited about for this adventure was the technology.
Sadly, as written most of it is crap.
Compare the Veemod that gives lowlight vision (1000gp the goggles, 6000 the Veemod, uses charges per hour, need to be activsted) with Eyes of the Owl (4000gp, always constant, no maintenance).
You coudl do the same with Trauma Packs and just potions of healing, and many other comparable items.
Technology in general is much more expensive, more limited, and require charges to do the same than regular magic. Which is a pity, because it should be the shinning star in this AP.
That's why I changed most of it, and ditched price and gold so you don't have a huge oportunity cost for each tech item
So I decided to build a custom magic item that works as "standard" power armor, but I'm looking for advice. I'm going to put it in the Aurora, in place of the 4 ruined HEV suits, trading enough treasure away to balance out the stuff.
I want it to feel like it's worth it, but not make it so powerful as the real artifact. My idea is to combine a few cheap magical/tech items into a single suit, integrated. The total cost should be lower than a HEV suit. I'm not sure what to add or not. I want it to have several utility powers, without being to good combat wise. Also, as he probably wont upgrade it in a while, it should last (quite) a few levels. It might work as "standard power armor" later for some TL dudes as well,in 5th book.
Here is what I think it could be nice:
+1 full plate of glaucite (about 6500gp, weights half as much)
Deflecting Shield (as Ring of Protection +1) 1000gp.
Servos: Muleback cords 1000gp (Gives the "powered" feel without using +enhance str which is worth too much)
Targeting array (equivalent to cracked ioun pale green, +1 competence to hit) 4000gp.
Inner stimulant injector (equivalent to ioun stone resonant power) free
Filter mask (4000gp)
Enhanced vision (eye of the owl, low light vision) 4000
Power Fist (equivalent to grippers) 100gp
Probably should drop a few of those. Dunno which. Also, maybe someone has a good idea for some other minor magic items to be placed, or a different approach.
Maybe giving just the +1 full plate if glaucite, then adding the rest as upgrades during different parts of the AP?
Edit: as a side note: buying and selling items in thus campaign is almost imposible, as I removed gold and most people just barter what they have, with little to none "magic shops" and no "on demand" construction for the most part, ulike my regular campaings where I let buy and sell normally. So I need to railor the items a bit more for the PC, as they cant sell junk magic items and transform them into the Big 6
In my Iron Gods campaign, I use a post apocalyptyc world and money is useless. We use bartering, with Food, Water, Fuel, Bullets, Medicine and Silverdisk being the mist commonly used trade goids to store value. Silverdisk are specially useful, they are coin sized disks that store 10 charges which you can use for recharging tech items.
Btw, the handheld wand like device you mention us a rip off Sonic Screwdriver in my game
It's actually a Tsar Tank
But the Dark Tapestry is exactly what I mean with borrowing stuff. Paizo is not making HP Lovecraft world a part of his world. There is no need for that. They just borrow the names, looks, and myth, and use them in their own way. You don't need a place called Dunwich and a place called Massachussets and someone called Wilbur Whateley to use Yog Shothoth. Your example above with Supernatural using part of the Bible Myth in their own way it's the same. They are using something called angels, and devils, and the Horsemen, and such. But they are not the angels and devils and Horsemen that we found in the bible. They don't go through the same myth, the apocalypse does not start the same way, there is a different creation story, the war among them is not the same, Supernatural Leviathans are not sea monsters like the Bible Leviathan...
It's pretty different to add or steal elements of a myth or a group of myths, than saying "myth X is part of this world, and myth Y is too, and both are fundamentally true, even if myth X says that myth Y can't exist".
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
It's possible that Magic the Gathering made more money in the first quarter of 2016, than Pathfinder has done since its birth.
Maybe you don't need a vehicle, just vehicle sized damage.
I'm thinking now of how AD&D handled army to army Combat in Birhtright. When in mass Combat you could use Realm Spells, and Magic Missile became "Rain of Magic Missile" and could do 1 "army hit damage", instead of 5d4+5 normal hp. You could cast "invisible unit" on your batallion, and so on. Maybe while in a ship, empowered by the ship magic engine, you can enhance your magic/psionic/whatever ability so your invisibility spell becomes "ship invisibility" and you can channel your fireball into a "photon torpedo sized fireball"
You might not be able to kill a AT-AT with your infantry sized laser pistol, but you could use your Fat Boy to throw a Mini Nuke at it. Your rapid fire feat might work with your ship's Battery of Naval Cannons. Point blank shot could work at 30 "space parsecs", the average short range for ship combat.
There is also ship to ship or vehicke to vehicle Combat in Star Trek, Battlestar Galáctica, Babylon 5, Battle tech, firefly, WH40K, and a lot of other examples of the genre that probably will be in the game. Mainly becsuse the post that snnounced the game tslks about Spaceships and armadas doing space blockades.Would ship to ship Combat be required? Of course not. Just like Energy Drain monsters aren't required in PF, you can have a full AP and never face one. Your GM might never use one in his story, just like he might never use a demon, or a dragon. But I'm pretty sure that a space game will have Spaceships,and I'm prerty sure than to fight Spaceships you'll need Spaceships
Really? Your GM puts your Jedi in a Star fighter battle, abd that's your feeling? It's not "we are doing a space battle because this is Star Wars and you know, there is a starship battle in every single SW film and he wants to get that feel" but "my GM hates me and don't want me to use my optimized light saber Skill"?
That's more or less what we are suggesting. "Ship scale" weapons having some short of rule to make them necessary to fight ship scale threats. DR\ship is a way. I don't think DR 50 will suffice, tho. A WWI tank in Pathfinder has almost 2000hp. Imagine the HP of a submarine. Or a battleship. Or a carrier. Or a Space carrier. Or a Space Battle Station. We are talking about MILLIONS of Hp. It's boring as hell to roll enough dice to deplete that. It's easier just change the scale. Otherwise, damage becomes impossible to handle. Currently a laser pistola does 1d8. Láser rifle 2d6. Láser cannon, up to 6d6. A rocket launcher, 12d6. What about a hellfire missile? A tomahawk cruise missile? What about ICBM? Or nuclear weapons? Probably the Death Star should survive *a few* nuclear weapons, just becsuse if size (not counting chsin reactions in wesk spot)
In mechwarrior, a normal rifle has just s chance to do 1point of damage vs a mech. A mech Medium Laser wipes five humans per hit. And mechs are actually small. Dropships are what we are talking about here.
So vehicles should be the new Big Six, except even more so, since even Pathfinder doesn't say you can't do anything without an amulet of natural armor?
Well, for space Combat, sure, you'll need a starfighter or ship of some kind.
Did you expect to fight Tie Fighters and Klingon Birds of Prey flying in space with an astronaut suit and doing flurry of blows with your bare hands against ships flying at near light speed?
Edit: also a big difference with the big six is that yuou are "forced" to buy the big six. Lke did not buy an Xwing to fight the Death Star, or a landspeeder to fight AT-ATs in Hoth. He was assigned to them, as part of his adventure. Just like James T. Kirk snd Spock did not buy the USS Enterprise. But yes,. If the adventure includes a space fight (and I expect those to be common), then you'll need a space fighter.
Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?
Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????
Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!
But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels
That definition works too for many western tropes, likecthe dude who always play the "holier than thou" paladin or the "I have a dark side" inquisitor, the n-esim dual wielding drow, the crom-worshipping barbarian or Legolas XXVII
Colossal is the maximum size category, the only thing that changes from there on is size and reach, which is not influenced by CR
Well, the entire point of this conversation is that someone suggested that this should change, because there is too much "room" for colossal to fit all monsters from Godzilla to a planet-sized Green Lantern. I mean, it's the same -size modifier to hit a building or to hit the planet where that building is?
Not to mention that a single X-wing destroyed the Death Star. It's not like the X-wing had to be the size of a planet to do this. I know it was a chain reaction, but the end result is still the end result.
It's completelly different to attack a nuclear generator inside a planet sized Battle Station, which can be done by anyone, and then the nuclear reactor exploding, than the same character hacking and slashing the Death Star into pieces.
The Hulk analogy is good, the problem is that players who chose to play with a scoundrel wielding a laser pistol will also be able to destroy planet sized battle stations (or, you know, Absalom itself), assuming the game is somewhat balanced and "scoundrel" and "raging barbarian" classes are in the same ballpark of damage.
I'm totally pro-epic stuff, and I understand that high level characters are close to demigods. I'm tottally fond of high level characters punching Shai Hulud to death, slicing Godzilla into pieces, and sniping Galactus with a single well placed headshot. BUT in a setting so open as this, there are some things that are far beyond that, such as planet-sized creatures, Solar-system sized ships, or Galaxy-sized energy beings older than gods.
EDIT: said otherwise: by rules, stone has 15hp per inch of thickness. How many HP does Alderaan has, then? How many d6 does the Death Star need to roll to destroy it? What's the point of having the Death Star cannon and a laser pistol shot sharing the same "scale" of damage?
Let's see if I can explain what I mean, with a better example, rooted in real world:
The God of the Christians, and the Olympian Gods, can't coexist. The God of Christians (and muslims and jews) is, by their own myths and beliefs, the only one god that exist. Therefore, it excludes the possibility of other gods. It also excludes, of course, the possibility of Pharasma being the one who rules over souls, and other stuff.
IF Earth, including Bible era, exist in Golarion, either the God of Christians is not the only god (and then, he's not the God of Christians but a facsimile), or he is the only god, and then Zeus, Thor, the Orishas or Pharasma are just a big lie or dudes impersonating as gods.
That's just an example of how some universes can't coexist. Some universes can, many universes could, but only if those universes have fake mythologies or if their own creation myths are not true. We can, of course, take that route: we could decide that the bible is not true, and the olypmic gods are real gods, or the other way around. We can bassically adapt any one of them to our Starfinder. But *all* of them, it's not possible unless we decide that the creators of those universes didn't really know what was happening in their worlds.
Well, Kaijus are probably around Colossal size, or just a bit bigger than that. They should be possible to damage by normal sized heroes, probably.
However, we are not talking about the same scale here. Luke Skywalker destroying a AT-AT with his lightsaber? Totally cool. Luke Skywalkerdestroying the Death Star with his lightsaber? That's enterely different.
The problem however is that Golarion is not a Fantasy setting inspired by medieval europesn technology and magic. It's inspired by James Jacobs own Home Campaign, which is a mashup of things and heavily tech influenced.
If Golarion was a europesn middle age but with magic, then we would not have Numeria, or Alkenstar, snd Elves would not be plsnet hopping travelers who Hide themselves in Venus while ancient aboleths conjure a meteor to kill everybody