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Some more Maure revelations in Rob's Dragonsfoot Q&A thread starting @ http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1556355#p1556355

Allan.


A'koss wrote:

And sure enough the question of the location of the Octychs has come up. So as I gather, these are the locations of Octychs we know about:

** spoiler omitted **

Now that's interesting: I wasn't aware that

Spoiler:
Warlock's Walk contained an octych.

I just checked the original manuscript and it's not mentioned in there (nor is the word "triangle"), so I wonder if this was added to the

Spoiler:
d20 version of Warlock's Walk published in OJ#23?

Some quick research found an octych mentioned in the possession of the ruling house of the Duchy of Urnst, as discovered in their vaults by the Seer of Unrst (OJ23, p. 24). He appropriated the octych, then lost it in the nearby ruins of Inverness. That summarizes the octych's presence in OJ23, and there's not one found in the Warlock's Walk trials themselves, so far as I can tell.

So, it looks like the known locations are still just:

Spoiler:

1. Castle Greyhawk.
2. Dragotha's Lair
3. Ghost Tower of Inverness
4. One possibly in Mordenkainen's possession?

Correct?

Allan.


Some interesting tidbits dropped by Rob in an article entitled "Advent of the Elder Ones: Mythos vs. Man in the Lake Geneva Original Campaign, 1973-1976", which is published in AFS#2, in case folks aren't aware of this new old-school publication. Details @ http://hallsoftizunthane.blogspot.com/

Allan.


Erik Mona wrote:
The "Power" in Absolute Power is a reference to the Power Magic of the Suel, which (in my view) could have been unlocked by collecting the Octychs and untangling the eight adventures they led to.

So Eric, did you ever outline the rest of the Absolute Power series?---would love to see that rounded out someday :D

Allan.


Althen, Luz---

Feel free to email me again and I'll pass along both to Rob again :D

Allan.
grodog@gmail.com


El Raja Key was created before Rob began to co-DM Greyhawk, and does feature dungeon levels designed for low-level PC play. Maure Castle, while loosely based on and associated with El Raja Key, is in fact a separate collection of castle ruins and dungeon levels.

Not sure if that helps?

Allan.


FWIW, there's also some support for Y = Yog-Sothoth in Bottle City, in which Rob placed 5 strange and alien gods---each rather HPL-ish in nature....

Allan.


Smarnil le couard wrote:
It is almost as sad as the unended "Zagyg's castle"...

Do you mean the TLG Castle Zagyg boxed set, or something else, Smarnil dle couard??

Allan.


Some good-sounding sleuthing there, althen artren :D

Allan.


De nada :D

Allan.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It appears 3.5e/d20 format in the Maure Castle issue #23 of the Oerth Journal @ http://oerthjournal.blogspot.com/p/oerth-journal-downloads.html

Rob had the 1e version on the Pied Piper site and you can access that @ http://web.archive.org/web/20110220184513/http://site.pied-piper-publishing .com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog& amp;id=44&Itemid=47

Allan.


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Yep, that was quite interesting, Grodog.

Glad you enjoyed it, Mairkurion.

Rob's doing a Q&A session if you want to ask him some more specifics about his thoughts from the interview: http://hillcantons.blogspot.com/2011/08/q-time-with-rob-kuntz.html

Allan.


FYI for the curious!: http://hillcantons.blogspot.com/2011/08/no-borders-or-limits-conversation-w ith.html

Allan.


Haakon1 wrote:
No kidding Grodog. Lost Erik-hawk lore is something I wish I could buy.

Hey Erik---

Did you ever outline the rest of the Absolute Power adventures, or sketch out some other parts of the series? You seems to have tied daemons into the series from early on, which is a nice touch, since they don't seem to get as much play as demons in Greyhawk.

Allan.


Erik's Absolute Power series is another one I'd love to see published one day!

Allan.


messy wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:
...the Living Greyhawk "Return to the Ghost Tower of Inverness" scenario from the second or third year of the campaign...
where can this scenario be found?

IIRC, it was available during the LG campaign, but it is no longer available now.

Allan.


Katerek wrote:
I have a campaign set in the early 200s CY.

I ran one set in 175 CY: great minds... :D

Katerek wrote:

I was thinking of having the PCs be some of those first adventurers to open and explore the upper levels of Maure Castle - i.e., the unmapped ones.

I am curious, has anyone else ever done something similar? Or are you aware if there are any fan maps of those "looted" levels?

I'm not aware of any maps like that, offhand, but they may be out there. You might consider posting the same Q to some other Greyhawk boards like Canonfire!, too.

Allan.


messy wrote:
grodog wrote:
My recollection is that ERK was a 2011 project...

the title and first post of this thread seem to indicate otherwise... ;-)

so does this link!

I stand corrected :D but also forgot to ask Rob about this at the North TX RPG Con. Pop a Q into one of his recent blog posts, and I'm sure he'll respond.

Allan.


Gururamalamaswami wrote:
I've said it here before...it will never happen.

Which alias was that under? Context is helpful, sometimes :D

Allan.


My recollection is that ERK was a 2011 project, not a 2010 one, but I can ping Rob for clarification.

Allan.


grodog wrote:
I'll see if Rob can stop by and chime in here with some more-authoritative input...

Rob's pretty swamped (getting ready to move), but asked me to pass this along:

Rob Kuntz via email to grodog wrote:


EGG and I surmised a location of ERK synonymous with the location of Maure Castle on the GH outdoor map. I switched the two when coming to
creating Maure Castle, however, for IP reasons--didn't need WotC owning yet the third castle/namesake from the 1972-1973 triumvirate. WG5 does indeed equate to the outer precincts of ERK that EGG's PCs discovered. There is no cross-over in the primary sense when you strip away all else for IP reasons. WG5 remained in place, but the Castles switched. I really miss doing Maure, btw, as it was a great story line. Perhaps I shall finish it as a novel, as my proclivities these days are running more and more towards writing fiction than doing loads of design work.--RJK

So, that's the word, straight from the source :D

Allan.


From my POV they are in fact different, but closely-related, dungeons: ERK was Rob's original campaign dungeon for the Kalibruhn campaign setting (like Castles Blackmoore and Greyhawk were the campaign dungeons for those settings). Maure Castle was the "equivalent" to ERK in Greyhawk, but as outlined in Dungeon 112, the original levels of MC don't align (to my understanding) of the original levels in ERK. So, I think there is definitely cross-pollination going on, I'm just not sure how much the two are "the same": if it's only 30% that's potentially a big difference vs. say 70-80% similarity.

I'll see if Rob can stop by and chime in here with some more-authoritative input....

Allan.


Nice digging, thanks! :D

Allan.


Interesting. If you find the references, Reggie, do please share! :D

Allan.


I thought folks might not have noticed some recent posts on Rob's blog about his plans to release levels from Castle El Raja Key in 2010: see
http://lordofthegreendragons.blogspot.com/ in general, and http://lordofthegreendragons.blogspot.com/2009/12/on-horizon-castle-el-raja -key.html in particular.

Allan.


I believe that the original three levels (from WG5 Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure) were discovered by Tomorast, and that they were side/adjunct levels to the main Maure Castle dungeons. My guess it that they were created by Uncle or another scion of the family, but I think that's a good question to ask Rob: poke him over on the PPP boards @ http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/forums/27 and he should respond.

Allan.


Werecorpse wrote:

How did you tie in return of the 8 with age of worms?

Spoiler:
doesnt return have the players rescuing Tenser, and isnt he already around and mentoring various wizards in AoW?

Offhand, I can think of several ways to tie together Rot8 and AoW:

a) if running Rot8 mostly-as-written:

Spoiler:
1. add some bits of lost lore about Kyuss to Tenser's Keep (also good lead-ins to Maure Castle that way, too)
2. have some of the AoW NPCs be the representatives who pull the PCs into the mix, instead of the background as-written in Rot8 (i.e., replace Jallizari with Allustan)
3. have some of the raiders that Iuz hired originate from within Diamond Lake, and/or change some of the background for the DL NPCs to worship Iuz

b) if running AoW mostly-as-written:

Spoiler:
1. change clues from DL/WC/AGoW to point to The Fortress of Unknown Depths/Tenser as sources to learn about Kyuss (heck, replace the whole "Library of Last Resort" with Tenser's Fortress)
2. insert the rescue of Tenser into AoW as a part of that plot; perhaps Dragotha/Lashonna/Kyuss fear Tenser's return---in particular---for some reason, and PCs are the ones who realize his criticality (replace Iggwilv with X above)
3. place Dragotha's phylactery in Tenser's artifact vault in Rot8, and leave the fortress as-is so that PCs must a) try not to loot everything in sight (Tenser is/was LG, afterall), and b) must still explore the keep pretty thoroughly to find the phylactery

Enjoy!
Allan.


This article may be of interest: http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article& sid=268 It is content cut from my Living Greyhawk Journal article in Dragon 294, and includes some sample artifacts with means of destruction/nullification, and some general advice on using artifacts in your campaigns.

Allan.


Egocentrix wrote:
Good adventuring on your side!

Thanks, and to you as well! :D

Allan.


Spoiler:
Egocentrix wrote:
I had completely forgotten about this second Octych in the Worms AP... My players are 2 modules ahead of it. I can expect them to be owners of 2 octychs shortly (well, provided they succeed in defeating some very old undead dragon...).

If its problematic, you could always remove the second octych: there's nothing in that adventure of the following ones that require it to be present.

Spoiler:
Egocentrix wrote:
Mmmh after the AP, they will get the attention of so many more powers and factions (after Iggwilv, Iuz, the Circle of Eight, the thieves and Assassin's guilds of Greyhawk, the Seekers to name of few who could be harmful...)! If they manifest any interest in Maure Castle I think the Scarlet Brotherhood at least should attempt something before the end.

To that list, I would consider adding: various other independent NPCs like Mordenkainen, Circle of Eight, Rary, Drax, Vecna, etc. Or, perhaps some new evil group seeking the octychs for their own nefarious ends (this is what Mona started to do with his "Absolute Power" modules).

Spoiler:
Egocentrix wrote:
Thks for the suggestions above. I definitely need to design something now about the demi-planes... May be I can use the part about Kyuss in Elder Evils and design some epic additional adventure. Anyone knows if this could be relevant (I ordered it on Amazon a few days ago)?

I can't help you there, as I don't own that book.

Spoiler:
Egocentrix wrote:
Or populate one of the demi-planes with another world (one of the Green Ronin or Necromancer Games campaigns perhaps).

Definitely a possibility: you could always boost Vault of Larin Karr into a demi-planar dungeon level, or toss them into Lance Hawvermale's Hawkmoon setting, which is rather close to GH in feel (it could be a sister world of sorts). Dropping them into Grim from FFG could also be interesting.

Someone above suggested the demi-planes from Q1 which is another good idea, as would be using some of the Fading Lands (first created by Carl Sargent; I catalogued a bunch of them at http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_sites.html as well, and Canonfire! has done at least one postfest on them, and several more were detailed in articles (just search for "Fading Lands" without quotation marks) and in the Oerth Journal, too (see my index for pointers, though it's likely not current).

Other ideas: send them to Luna (see Return of the Eight for some ideas), or to some of the various other demi-planes already hinted at/published (EX1/2; WG6; Greek Myths area, etc. from S4; X2's Averoigne is a great candidate, too, as is the Forest of Lanterns DCC from Goodman Games). Send them forward or backward in time (Land of the Lost/Lost World/At the Earth's Core). Etc.

Gygax's Hall of Many Panes may have some interesting ideas to pillage here, too, but I've heard it's very uneven, so I wouldn't pick it up just for this if you don't already have it.

Spoiler:
Egocentrix wrote:
Are the Maure Castle levels of Dungeon easy to upscale for an epic party ?

I think so.

Allan.


Great summary Pat! :D

concerro, you may also want to check out the Wikipedia entry @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordenkainen%27s_Fantastic_Adventure

Allan.


Callum wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Interesting: I wonder where that demi-plane is....

Allan.


Rob's response over on the PPP boards:

===
The original version of this now-differently-named phenomena will be treated in an upcoming rleases from the Original Campaign; and I was thinking about those tie-ins just recently when organizing the "CATALOG". This will account for its beginning history, at least, not-with-standing variants of such as now exist.

From the original design intent, yes these were designed to be "jumping of pads" for future adventures, but it goes without saying that I included some more interesting alternatives since then, and as detailed in the unpublished notes for a related article I began crafting back in 2005: I. The Eight-Pointed Star [10m words]; which derives from over 25 listings of proposed articles and adventures seeded with GH lore I was combining in my Red Book file. Others in this vein I paste hereafter. Whether all of these can be done in context with all the name changes needed is a matter for future thought.

-- VI. Greyhawk's Spell Archetypes Based on the Suloise Ancient Texts [10m words]; XVI. The Suel Magi, Including the Ritual for the Invoked Devastation [12m words]; XII. The Yeomanry's Expeditions into the Sea of Dust [10m words]; XVII. Baklunish Ancient Magic, Formulas and the Colorless Fire [12m words]; XXI. The Lost Passage (adventure) [20m words]. ... --RJK
===

Threads @ http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/topic/2636 for reference.

Allan.


Spoiler:
In addition to WG5 and the 3 Maure Castle issues of Dungeon, the Octychs are also hinted at in Erik Mona's "Absolute Power" RPGA Living Greyhawk adventures "River of Blood" and "As He Lay Dying."

Two octychs have been accounted for: the one in EttRoG and the in Dragotha's Lair in the Age of Worms adventure "Into the Wormcrawl Fissure" (in Dungeon Magazine 134,May 2006).

Rob Kuntz has also commented on the octychs to a limited degree in threads here at Paizo as well as on the Pied Piper boards but he hasn't revealed further mysteries that I recall.

Allan.


Good to know guys!: you should post on Rob's MC board @ http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/forums/27
and the ERK board @ http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/forums/22

Allan.


...from the land of radio silence. If you're interested in any juicy Maure Castle details, now's a good time to ask: http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/forums/27

Allan.


Could be, I haven't re-read 112 in quite some time, messy!

Allan.


Generic Villain wrote:
I'm not sure about the geography of Maure Castle itself. I don't own Dungeon 112, though if I recall correctly, I was a little confused by the dungeon's layout myself. As far as I could tell, the Maure family built themselves a massive dungeon complex, perhaps even rivalling Forgotten Realm's Undermountain in size.

That's correct: Maure Castle was the Greyhawk-based equivalent to RJK's "Castle El Raja Key", the megadungeon in his Kalibruhn campaign world (where EGG did his primary adventuring).

Generic Villain wrote:
As for the Maure family, their current status is kept intentionally vague. There's no real information on what happened to them after Elluvia betrayed them, though I recall reading hints that the elusive Uncle still existed in some form in the deepest reaches of his dungeon. As for the others, who knows? They may have died, or cloned themselves, or turned undead, or entered suspended animation, or... well you get the idea.

Exactly: you can mold them to be whatever and whoever you need them to be.

Generic Villain wrote:
That is, perhaps, the greatest tragedy of Paizo losing the rights to publish Dungeon.

I can't disagree with that, although never getting an Age of Worms hardcover ranks high up there too :(

Generic Villain wrote:
As for the eight-pointed key, my understanding was that each part of the key would open its own plane. As for what happens when you collect them all, who knows?

Like the family, you can shape it however you want to.

Generic Villain wrote:
I'm not sure if you know this, but a level of Maure Castle is also detailed in Dungeon 124 ("Chambers of Antiquity") and Dungeon 139 ("Return to Maure Castle").

RJK published one additional level: he wrote "Warlock's Walk" for GenCon 2007 (1e version on the PPP site, 3.5 conversion in the OJ#23 I mentioned in the previous post), and also published another Maure-related article there (it was originally intended to be a Living Greyhawk Journal article).

Allan.


Fletch wrote:

At first glance, Maure Castle doesn't seem like the adventure for me as it seemed a bit story-lite and focused more on that "1st Edition Feel" of bunches of challenges with little apparent reason other than being challenges (I mean, seriously, who makes a killer statue to guard his lair and includes two weapons the critter is especially vulnerable to?*).

* Probably the same fella who built the Scorpion King's pyramid with the heiroglyphic description of how to kill the Scorpion King...

LOL :D (Perhaps in-game, the rituals to create the golem required the creation of the other two items too?---and, truthfully, how likely are your PCs to walk up to the other two statues to ask them for their weapons vs. just assuming that they'd animate too?).

Fletch wrote:

So as I come in to this completely ignorant, let me see if I've got the basics of this thing down pat:

- Maure Castle itself is completely looted up to whatever barrier kept the explorers from reaching the next level of the basement.

From the comments in the World of Greyhawk box set/folio, and in WG5 Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure, it sounds like MC is still inhabited. RJK also posted a few articles on the PPP site @ http://site.pied-piper-publishing.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&a mp;view=category&layout=blog&id=44&Itemid=47 (along with materials in Oerth Journal #23 @ http://www.oerthjournal.com/oj23.html too). I think it's sufficiently open that you can do whatever you want with the castle proper, either way: inhabited, ruined, insert another castle in its place, etc.

Fletch wrote:
- Eli was one of the more dedicated looters and eventually found these "Unoppenable Doors" some distance to the west that lead to a couple dungeon levels that aren't actually under Maure Castle...or any building it seems.

Eli's initial motives for moving into the MC environs are murky, but presumably "power-hungry" has something to do with it (IIRC, Rob said something to that effect in one of my first letters to him many moons ago).

Fletch wrote:
- From those levels, Eli dug a tunnel east to breach the previously inaccessable dungeon levels that are actually below Maure Castle.

Spot-on.

Fletch wrote:
Is all that right? So...what were those "western" levels for? Did the Maure family make dungeon levels with no building on top of them? It doesn't seem like they were even designed to connect with the lower Castle levels.

Likely a series of levels built by one or more of the Maure scions who desired a secret redoubt nearby, perhaps?

Fletch wrote:
I also can't seem to wrap my head around the Maure's themselves. I can't tell if I'm being dense or if the information is conflicting, but are the family members themselves still alive?

It sounds like most are dead, but that a few are still around. Again, I think that leaves a lot of flexibility in how you deal with them, insert them into your campaigns, etc.

Fletch wrote:

Finally, while I took a peek recently at Rob's website (at Pied Pipers), I'm still not sure if there are any plans to finish the dungeon series and actually answer the mysteries that have been hinted at throughout. Since that's the thing that interests me the most, I can't even consider running this adventure until I know there's going to be a satisfying conclusion.

There will be more material related to Maure appearing at some point, I think, but even so I think you'll not find all 18+ levels detailed before 2010, so you'll either have to truncate the levels, create them yourself, insert others in their place, or perhaps change the backstory to accommodate your needs. I can definitely recommend several places for you to find maps you can key as the levels, if you're so inclined.

Fletch wrote:
The eight-pointed star thingy...is each triangle its own key or do you need all eight to open the gate? The key found in Big D's treasure pile says it opens to a particular plane, do they all go some place different?

All 8 are keyed to individual planes/adventures/settings, and then if all 8 are brought together, they then open a new, 9th gate to somewhere even cooler. This was more explicity in the original WG5 module vs. the Dungeon version, too.

Fletch wrote:
Since most of what I know of Greyhawk I learned from Paizo, I was struck by the connection between the Maure's 8-pointed star and the symbol of the Seekers that I first saw mentioned in 'Whispering Cairn'.

Good catch, that's intentional, per comments from Erik Mona and/or Gary Holian at some point, perhaps in Living Greyhawk Journal's article on the Seekers??

Fletch wrote:
While the Seekers in Maure Castle wear a sunburst symbol, it pleases me to think that the other symbol (the star) might've been based on the Maure's keyhole. Could the entire Seeker organization be based on a group questing to find all eight of the key triangles?

That sounds good to me! :D

Allan.


I've been working on my version of Castle Greyhawk, which will eventually integrate with Castle El Raja Key/Maure Castle via teleporters and other nefarious transporters, so I'll be working on these notes again in the next month or two.

If you're curious, several of my CG levels (including a few new ones) are posted @ http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_castle_grodog.html. Even if you're not running Castle Greyhawk/Zagyg, the levels can easily be inserted into Maure Castle :D

Allan.


I started priming some of these, will post some pics once I have something sufficiently done to be share-worthy :D

Allan.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Unfortunately its looking much less likely this will ever turn into a real blog. I spend all of my DM time trying to stay a few steps ahead of my players and have no time left over to Blog this. Its amazing how much work one has to put in to run high level adventures really.

Have one of your players do it, then. Give 'em an extra 5% XP or something like that :D

Allan.


I haven't heard that Rob's planning another Maure level for 2009, but you could certainly ask him @ http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/forums/27.

Allan.


Thanks for the additional pointers, Bellona: I already own the two spoiler-laden demon princes you mentioned, though I had missed Lolth :D

Allan.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

Some I'm running this and getting confused a bit by the original intent of the Greater Halls.

[snip]It seems to have some connection to the original Maure and yet we are told that there are no actual routes between this complex and Maure Castle proper.

So who built the Great Halls and why?

My hunch is that the levels were built by some Maure on the side, as secret sub-levels near to the Castle, but not connected directly to it (to preserve their secrecy). As to who/why, they're good questions: perhaps Elluvia, perhaps Uncle, perhaps Afelbain? I don't know of any official answers, or unofficial ones, truthfully.

If you pop over to the PPP boards, Rob may provide an answer there: http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/forums/27

Allan.


James Jacobs wrote:
Bellona wrote:

I just thought that I'd mention that Reaper does a good (evil?) line of demon lords/ladies in their Dark Heaven series ... although under different names for the most part, most likely due to copyright reasons.

For Malcanthet, try: this figure.

Since one of the guys from Reaper sought me out and gave me that mini as a gift and said to me, "This was inspired by the Malcanthet stuff you did in the magazines."...

...that seems like it's a pretty good one to use for Mal!

Thanks for the pointers, guys: my copy of that figure just arrived today (along with the Graz'zt clone!).

Allan.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Happy to help, baron! :D Unfortunately, I haven't had any time to update my other Wyre-related bookmarks for non-Rogues Gallery rules discussions that Sep started, and I don't think they work after EnW changed their URLs schema.

Just in case, though, here they are:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61536
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76295
--------------------
http://www.enworld.org/forumdisplay.php?f=305
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50568
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51212
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52570
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58301
http://dungeondamage.keenspace.com/d/20030827.html
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81434
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70323&page=2&pp=25
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=126874
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=129739
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=115672
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=172905
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=203642
--------------------
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42147
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=173225

The first two are conversions for daemons and such that Sep liked. The last two are for his old non-Wyre SH.


baron arem heshvaun wrote:
This is a year overdue but thanks for pointing me to those threads, brilliant and inspired indeed !!

You're quite welcome :D

Allan.


You may also want to check out the GH NPC archive @ http://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan/dnd.html

Allan.

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