From RotRL and RotRL aniversary edition, the Scarecrow's (Skinsaw Murders) CR is different. Both use the Lifespark Construct template from Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary.
The anniversary edition doesn't add any level to the CR of the flesh golem and it doesn't get the Open Mind ability, but the original edition does.
How can a construct get feats and skills, and not see its CR increase?
Christina Stiles wrote:
Just checking cause it makes sense. Will the bundle be sent by email?
One word of advice, don't tell them exact details and don't do it in game terms. Say that since beastie X lives in hot volcanic conditions that you can assume the beast does not fear fire thus hinting that cold is the way to go. As soon as you give game details you've spoilt the creature.
But you know, studies doesn't mean actual truth.
There really is no guideline and it is up to you.
Giving the info on an iconic attack or defense of a beasty sounds reasonable. When seeing a basilisk, her gaze attack might be the first thing that pops up in a PCs mind (before her mating habits).
After that it is what you want to tell them. You could ask if the players if focus on one aspect of the beasty over another. Like attacks, defenses, senses, movements, vulnerabilities, behavior, etc.
How rare or common the monster will affect this. If it is an Oni (rare in the Inner Sea region), PCs might get the less interesting and general info like dark vision, rather than some ability that is more important in combat.
Might I suggest the Expended Construct Armor Handbook? Construct armor can be found here (scroll down). It is OGL and I have seen other people request a rule expension for construct armors.
It is a nice concept, a bit mecha, but not too much. The rules need clarification and expension. I am not a sure a wood golem armor (for druids!) should have the same penalties an iron golem has. A flesh golem armor is pretty neat for a necromancer, but should it have the same spell failure chance as an iron golem armor? Can the necromancer boost his flesh golem armor? Extra limb/tentacle, two hearts, wings, maw (bite attack), etc.
Maybe create some variant golems. Like a light iron golem so a fighter can get one at lower levels. New types of golems for casters who want a construct armor, but still want to cast without spell failure. The smoke golem comes to mind. Smoke doesn't get in the way of movements, now does it? A shadow/umbral golem for rogues (and casters too)?
I do not see why the golem needs to be of the same size as the wearer. The golem can't be smaller than the pilote, but I see no problem with a small creature piloting a large golem (gnome in a cannon golem anyone?).
Like I mentioned above with the necromancer, there can be "add-ons" for the golem armor (light plating, heavy plating, night eyes (dark vision for the pilote), rotating blade, pincer hand (bonus to grapple), acid spray, etc).
You also have a bunch of potential feats for this book. Nimble Pilote to reduce penalties to Dex, Quick Escape to get out faster of a golem armor with not hp, Arcane Pilote to reduce spell casting failure, etc.
New spells too, like call armor a variant teleport object, a series of repair spells to heal damage to the armor, short circuit to make an golem armor inoperable for a short time, ghost pilote so the armor can fight by itself for a short period of time, puppeter or proxy to maneuvre the armor and see through its eyes from a safe distance, but you are in a trance, etc.
Maybe an archetype for druids that lets him replace his animal compagnion with a wood golem armor? Same for cavalier and his horse?
It has potential.PM me if you want more ideas. I might have some others. if you are running short on them.
I'd like some clarification about contradictions in the book.
On page 2, in the how magic implement works section, it is written: "The enhancement bonus of a magic implement adds to all attack rolls made with spells cast from the wand, damage dealt by the first die of spell damage (see Bonuses to Spell Damage, below), and to all caster level checks made for spells cast while using the wand [...]".
On page 4, in the pricing magic items box text, it is written: "Since our implements only add to damage [...]".
Does the enchancement bonus apply to attack rolls, damage, caster level or just damage?
Will McCardell wrote:
I really didn't expect the prevailing feedback to be "these are so good that I want to make my own, but I don't know how to price them!".
Bask in the glory! ;-)
Seriously, Apeiron staves are what staves should have been from the start. They certainly are more iconic than the SIAC staves we have now.
This is an interesting module. I must say I am surprised by the staves, they are more original and useful than I thought. I like how the description text of the staves was divided in clear sections.
Out of curiosity, what is the formula you used to price Apeiron Staves?
Very interesting that they possibly viewed consumables as 1/10 of the price of a metamagic feat.
Thank you very much! This is very useful.
What people believe does not equal facts. I bet no one who responded in the thread lifted a finger on a calculator before posting.
The formula is hard so it is easier to believe designers just guestimated it.
Ferious Thune wrote:
It seems to be:
1 level = 1k
2 levels = 2k (1k+1k)
3 levels = 4k (1k+1k+2k)
4 levels = 8k (1k+1k+2k+4k)
Ferious Thune wrote:
Thanks! This is awesome!
Ok, what is the fomula behind those... ;-)
... I already mentioned ioun stones in the OP.
Bill Dunn wrote:
I make this huge assumption cause all magical items use a formula to determine their pricing. There might be corrections after the formula is used, but yeah, all item prices come from a formula, not from playing spin the donkey.
Anyway, I won't get any constructive advice here. Enjoy debating if rods are bad or not.
Diego Rossi wrote:
Yet I demonstratd the connection between the worth of a feat and those of the minor rods. First the price of a feat, how is it 5k gp?
Gloves of arrow snatching do what that feat does, but only twice a day. How did they get a price of 4k for it? Well snatch arrow is a feat that needs deflect arrow, another feat. That is a total value of 10k gp for two feats, right? But you can only use it twice a day, so you adjust the price by dividing it by 5 divided by 2 (the number of uses per day) = 2.5. Divide 10k by 2.5 and you get 4k, the price of gloves of arrow snatching. So we know that a feat is worth 5k. Another example is a dark blue ioun stone that gives the Alertness feat. Slotless items are worth double the price of items that take space (liek gloves). So a dark blue ioun stone is worth 10k gp (5k for the feat multiplied by 2).
Take a minor merciless rod, it is worth 1,5k gp. Take that price and multiply it by 5 divided by 3 (1.66) and you 2,5k, half the price of a feat. For a +1 minor feat (worth 3k gp) multiply that by 1.66, you get 5k, the price of a feat. The number (5k) is not a coicindence.
Designers do not pull out magic item prices out of their hat. They use formulas. I figured that for minor rods they take the spell slot level increase the metamagic feat gives (Empower +2 level), add 1 and multiply that by 5k and then divide it by 1.66 to get the price of the minor rods (9k for minor empower rods). For a minor merciful rod it is 0.5 multiplied by 5k divided by 1.66. Makes sense since merciful doesn't increase spell level when it is applied to a spell.
This breaks down at +3 level minor rods though. But both +3 level and +4 level minor rods multiply 5k by numberX.6. I wanna figure out how they came to numberX and the .6.
Yeah, I got issues.
A +4 Greater Rod is worth so much because it lets you do metamagic that should be "impossible".
Yes, I understand.
Yet the designers didn't pull numbers out of their hat. They have a rational for a +0 level minor = half a feat, that +1 level minor rof = a feat or that +4 levels greater rod = 56 feats.
goldomark - Metamagic rods do more than just grant access to a feat, so there's no reason to assume that they should be priced based on magic items which grant access to a feat.
But they are.
Take the minor merciful rod it is worth 1,500 gp. Reverse engineer the price of a rod by multiplying it by 1.66 (when determining the price of item, once you have a price if the item has charges per day you need to divide the price by 5 divided by the number of charges per day, here it is 3 charges per day, so 5 divided by 3 = 1.66) and you roughly get 2,500 gp, half of 5,000 gp. Half a feat.
Take a +1 level minor rod. They cost 3,000 gp. Multiply it by 1.66 and you roughly get 5,000 gp. The price of a feat.
What I want to know is how they arrived at the conclusion that a +0 level minor rod is worth half a feat, while a +1 level minor rod is worth a feat and that a +4 levels greater rod is worth 56 feats. What is the logic or the math behind this priceing?
Maybe it would help if you told us what you're trying to price out.
Metamagic components. Basically a consummable that acts as a metamagic feat for one spell when used during the casting. Clearly which metamagic feat is used has a impact on pricing and so does the level of the spells it can affect.
I have, champ. What I want to know is the formula to get from 5,000 gp to those prices.
Seems pretty clear it is not a two-handed weapon anymore.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Yup. Plus drow party 1, party 2...
Stating up anti-paladins would be awesome, with the other alternative and base classes too.
Is Cthulhu OGL too or has the IP on it expired?
Sorry for the necro, but where are the Clockwork Creature's winding and swift reactions special qualities described? I imagine swift reactions give the bonus feats, but winding is a mystery aside from the Clockwork Soldier.
Is winding a non-soldier clockwork creature good for one day per HD it has?
I want to add the young template to vampire spawns to have creepy undead kids running around.
I was wondering how the lack of Con of the undead will affect the -1 to the CR since an undead is less weaken by the template than other creatures.
In the same line of thought, the wights (base for vampire spawns) have Skill Focus (Perception) as a feat. I would like to replace it with Weapon Finesse now that the Young template gave it a interesting Dex score. I know all feats are supposed to be equal so it is not suppose to change much of anything to the CR, but this really makes a the vampire spawn more powerful (aside fom the -2 to natural armour).
Should I keep the CR 4 or is it a CR 3?