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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 338 posts (2,996 including aliases). No reviews. 2 lists. 1 wishlist. 37 aliases.


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Kawai considers himself a lighthearted individual, pragmatic, neither a pessimist nor an optimist, but a realist.

Life is what it is. He certainly isn't above finding humor in life. And sometimes that requires a little proactive assistance on his part. Rarely enough to cause real harm. Though he believes that a good dose of humiliation is good for those that need it.

He'll help those that need it, but won't carry those that don't try to help themselves or feel entitled to charity.

Often working from the sidelines or shadows, he definitely finds discretion to be the better path.


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Thanks for the input sazzat. I've wanted to play around with a jumper, but yeah, 4 feats sucks.

I may end up switching to an arcane class.

Overcoming the concealment is a definite need. With four weapons, I can spread around the materials to have at least one that can hit most DR's.

A question for the DM is if he would allow the conjuration:teleport ability shift to qualify since it acts like DD.


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Build is coming along...

but I think I may need to switch cleric for wizard, not getting as many DD's as I was hoping.

Suggestions welcome: Kasatha Rogue/cleric


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Good points.

Which is why I posted suggestions with both attack iterative and attack action.

To make multiple iterative attacks with a shield from a blinkback belt, he needs both the quick draw feat and a quickdraw shield.

I still don't get why he wants to have both attack and defense enhancements on one shield though, seems overly complicated and expensive.


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From the bottom up.

I didn't see anything that indicated you would not be able to do increased damage from brawler's flurry with your shield champion.

shield mastery is using an action. The ricochet return effect is at the end of the turn, so you would not get multiple attacks. The DM would need to decide if the blinkback was an iterative 'attack' or an 'attack' action. If an attack action, then the teleport happens after the action, and thus you would again not get multiple throws. If it is an iterative action, and you are using quickdraw shields and the quick draw feat, then you could get multiple throws.

The blinkback belt is a pretty cheap item to allow multiple hits with the same thrown weapon (the returning weapon ability doesn't return for multiple hits in the same round).

Let's say you spend $25209 for a +5 quickdraw shield, and another $72,000 for a +5 defending weapon enhancement. (GM call if this qualifies as an additional ability and one of them gets a 50% price hike, I'd say yes, since the rules do state multiple abilities get the price increase and there is no rule stating shields enhanced as weapons and shields are exempted)

While the shield is on your blinkback belt, you do not have the AC bonus. You quickdraw (free action with quick draw feat), and throw the shield. You get your brawler's flurry damage with an extra +5 for the shield.

OR, you choose to apply the +5 weapon enhancement to your AC using the defending property when you throw it. In which case you throw it with your BF damage but you lose the weapon enhancement damage.

The only way to get the +5 AC to armor and the +5 weapon enhancement to AC is to be already holding the shield, and then make a bash attack (with improved bashing) with the shield using the defending property. However, since the shield is wielded, you would only get one throw since the blinkback belt requires the weapon to be on the belt prior to the throw.

One thing to keep in mind, while many of the brawler and shield champion abitilites reference shield bash, in the context of "as shield bash", throwing a shield is not a shield bash, it does the same damage as a shield bash, and it allows other abilities to be used as if a shield bash. This does not mean that throwing a shield is a shield bash. As such, improved shield bash would not apply to throwing a shield.

Keep in mind that a shield bash is basically shoving the shield on your arm into your opponent, hoping to hurt them with the edge, spikes, or to knock them off-balance. Throwing the shield may do the same damage, but it is not a bash. Throwing the shield may allow you to perform some combat maneuvers as if the shield were still melee instead of thrown, but the attack is not a melee attack. Shield bash is a melee attack.

So the big question is: Why not just use two shields? One to attack, one to defend?


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@Theorythmus Out of curiosity, how much pathfinder experience do you have, and how high have you played before?

Many of the questions you asked in your last post are explained in the corebook and/or at d20pfsrd.

This page lists the abilities that can be put on a shield.

and this page explains when you can use a shield as a weapon.

While you could, theoretically, buy attack and defense options on a spiked shield, you would have to buy your enhancements twice, and you would only get the benefit of one or the other in any given round, never both. The defending ability of a weapon would not allow you to take the AC bonus of a shield and apply it to AC twice. You could pay twice for a weapon that is also a shield, pay for the defending bonus, and when you are using the shield as a weapon (loosing it's bonus to AC), then use the defending function to apply the weapon bonus back to AC. But this gets dizzy with the circular thinking.

Having a shield in a blinkback belt is not wielding the shield and you would not get an armor bonus. Note that donning or doffing a shield is each a move action.

The ricochet of returning shield would not stack with the blinkback belt. The weapon used from a blinkback belt teleports. Thus you could not use these two abilities to throw the same shield multiple times in one round. ricochet specifically states at the end of the turn.

Since the blinkback belt states the weapon comes back immediately after the attack. This would be a GM call whether this is referring to that iterative attack or an attack action. If iterative, then quick draw would allow you multiple attacks with the same weapon. (As a GM I would probably not allow that since the belt allows for multiple weapons to hang from it.)

The bashing magic enhancement and the shield throw ability appear to stack.

The table at d20pfsrd does not indicate that shield champion replaces or changes brawler's flurry.

Shield mastery would be usable with brawler's flurry. Until you threw the shield. We have already established that you can likely only throw one shield one time in a turn.

There are a couple other questions I haven't addressed yet.


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drbuzzard, the costs I listed are retail pricing, which a noncrafter can have.

There is no reason that a noncrafter cant have something that is a combined or custom item, they just dont get the price break for making it themselves.

(Generally, if the GM says that crafters dont get a price break, they are the only ones to get the custom/combined items for their feats)


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Hi GM Pandorica,

I think you may have a couple of calculations off. The only place magic crafting states to double cost is for slot-less items. The belt is slotted.

Adding New Abilities:

Sometimes, lack of funds or time make it impossible for a magic item crafter to create the desired item from scratch. Fortunately, it is possible to enhance or build upon an existing magic item. Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place.

The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character's body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection 2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.

We can see here that the cost increase is the difference between the old ability and the new ability.

Let's say that sword was a +1 glamoured longsword (which is similar to the mighty hurling belt with multiple properties, here we have a flat cost and an enhancement cost). It would have a retail price of $5315. If we enchanted the longsword to be a +3 glamoured longsword, we would pay an additional $16,000. This is the difference between the old +1 cost and the new +3 cost. The other costs remain as is, thus the new sword would cost $17315.

A belt of mighty hurling is much like that glamoured longsword. It has an enhancement cost (the +4 str) and a flat magic effect cost.

So to increase the enhancement cost, we simply add the difference between a +6 belt of str and a +4 belt of str, which is an extra $20,000. That gives us a +6 belt of mighty hurling.

But, he wants to add dex and con to his belt. These are

multiple different abilities (MDA).:
Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

Since we already know that a physical attribute of +4 costs 16,000 gold, then we need to multiply this by 1.5 for the 50% MDA penalty, totaling $24,000. We do this twice, each for dex and con.

This increases the Belt of perfect hurling (+6 str, +4 dex, +4 con) to a total of $110,000.

Now we add on the benefits of the blink back belt for another $7500 (5000 * 1.5), bringing our new Blinking Belt of Perfect Hurling to a whopping $117,500.

Now if he wanted this belt as a hair tie that didn't take up any of his body slots, it would cost a whopping $235,000.

You asked about the belts of stat increasing.

A belt of Giant Strength has costs of $4000, $16000, $36000. For a +2, +4, or +6 bonus. The dex and con belts are the same cost.

The belt of Physical Might has costs of $10000, $40000, and $90000. This is for a flat +2, +4, or +6 to two physical abilities.

Looking at the MDA rule (50% cost increase for additional items), we can break that $10000 cost into a $4000 cost for one ability, and another $6000 cost for a second ability ($4000 * 1.5).

So we can see that the MDA rule applies to the Physical Might Belt.

Without looking, I can tell you that the Belt of Physical Perfection (bonus to all three physical stats) costs $16000, $64000, or $144000. Because it also follows the MDA rule to add the third stat.

This also tells me that if I have a belt of Physical Might (Str & Dex +4) that I spent $40000 on. I can add +2 con to it for another $6000, the cost of an additional ability. I now have a belt that gives +4 str, +4 dex, and +2 con.

And thus, a Blinking Belt of Perfect Hurling that gave +6 to str, dex, and con would cost $177500 (if my math is right).

I hope this helps clear up any confusion.

Quite frankly, combining existing items together (in the same slot) is the easiest way to 'craft'. Crafting unique or new abilities is where most of the trouble comes in on how costs are calculated.


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Theorythmus the magic building rules state that increasing an effect is the difference between the old and new.

A +4 belt of strength has a cost of $16,000. A +6 belt is $36,000. The difference of $20,000 is what it would cost to have a +6 giving you a total cost of $62,000 for a +6 mighty belt of hurling. (If you have crafting, your cost is halved.)

Adding the effects of other belts follows a similar vein.

Take the cost of a belt of dex, multiply by 1.5 and add it.
Repeat for the belt of con.

DON'T do this with the belt of dex & con. This belt already has a multiplier on it for having two abilities, you would be effectively paying the multiplier twice.

repeat for the other belts.

Please note that you start with your most expensive component, and you don't pay the 50% premium for that item, only for each lesser cost item.

Your 3 belts would be $62000 + $7500 (blink back) + $24000 (+4 dex)+ $24000 (+4 con) total = $117,500.


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Let's keep in mind, we get an extra feat, and two skill points a level.

I am not sure how the martial's are complaining that they can't take master craftsman and spend the skill points to craft some of their own gear. Assuming that they don't take a crafting class on one side of their gestalt.

I think a lot of people are forgetting that even if the casters get more gear, and even though everyone sees power-mad min-maxing gestalts, the characters still only get one swift/immediate, one move, and one standard action.

I can craft all the command word items I want, I can still only activate one of them at a time.

Way I see it is:

Some martial characters are making builds that do massive damage.
Some caster characters are making builds that have a lot of magic gear.

both types had to make choices to get where they are.

I do see a lot of martial builds "complaining" that they should get their massive damage and lots of magic gear.

I don't see a lot of casters complaining that they want lots of magic gear and massive damage.

I think this discussion would have a lot more merit if the game was not gestalt, and there were not free feats and skills available.


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I don't think I'm going to get my earthling done on time, I didn't expect so much activity over the weekend.

If I don't get an idea in tomorrow, then I'm okay with waiting until the next go around. (I submitted some fluff on a kasatha cleric rogue. I then suggested a modification to be from earth, which I kinda like better.)

So, do we need full character sheet or just the fluff for selection?


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On the basis of being able to be from anywhere...

I'm working on an idea for someone from earth.


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@Rynjin wouldn't your whatever kinda have to be rogue?


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My ideal "alignment", from a character perspective.

I generally follow the laws of the land. When convenient I'll even see how I can rules lawyer them to my advantage, even if it is to the detriment of someone else. Sometimes just for fun. I have no problem ignoring those laws I think I can get away with or I feel have little value.

While I generally do "good" deeds. I do on occasion believe the means justifies the end. I am also not altruistic enough to throw in on every lost cause.

I read this as true neutral with a slant towards lawful good.


I'm looking over Areniel. She looks good.

I'm looking forward to your first post.


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Background:

For many years Kawai wasn't sure of his background. He grew up on the streets of Korvosa, a street urchin to a ruthless fish mongering pile of overgrown refuse named Lamm. He reckoned he was around 8 years of age when a group of mysterious men and women trashed the latest dump that Lamm had called home. Freed from that petty tyranny, Kawai's freedom was short lived as within a year Korvosa was soon embroiled in civic unrest with a plague spreading like wildfire through the masses, it seemed to primarily target the weak, the poor, those with one foot in the grave already.

Somehow, Kawai survived. As the wickedness of the Queen was revealed and masses quaked in fear, Kawai learned the streets. His favorite was the markets, especially the brightly colored wagons of the traveling Varisian gypsies. When Old Korvosa was quarantined, Kawai stowed away on a wagon of a caravan as it left Korvosa. The wagon he picked had belonged to a traveling seer of Desna.

That first night as the gypsies made camp the old matron called to him by name. Surprised, he crawled out from under the wagon and stood, fearing the old lady. Informed that he had been sent to her by Desna to become a warrior priest for Desna, Kawai accepted his fate and joined the traveling group.

Over the next several years he learned the fighting style of several of the Varisians as well as the tenants and beliefs of Desna.

His early childhood of living through the collapse of Korvosa forged a strong desire for travel in the young Kawai. Rarely spending more than a few weeks in any one location, he has traveled extensively throughout the regions.

Drawn to Magnimar, Kawai was soon wrapped up in a quest by the Pathfinder Society for an ancient artifact known as the Sihedron. One of hte darker periods in his life was when he had possession of the Shard of Lust. If it moved and had a hole, he was trying to seduce it. Not one of his better times...

With the return of Xin averted, Kawai has found a need to travel once more.

Appearance:

Kawai is an atypical priest of Desna, favoring grey robes rather than white. In homage to his own ancestry, he often wears a head wrapping that covers his lower face. He has found that the flowing robes are also beneficial in allowing him to keep his lower limbs discreetly held close to his body.

crunchy bits:

Kawai is a Kasathan NG priest of Desna.
Fighter 1/Rogue 7/Evangelist 10//cleric 18
I plan on going the dimensional agility, multi-weapon attack path with Kawai.


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On that note, could there be two ironmaskesh types? or captain americas, etc?

Pretty obvious that different people will have different takes on how to build them.


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hey doombringer, i got dibs on Tony Stark!

Though I was thinking more of a rogue/synth summoner.

The rogue gives some decent skill monkey goodies which is up stark's ally. See about finagling the SA to ranged attacks with the SS for the suit.

How closely are we trying to be on the supers?

Poetic license on their powers is a given since we aren't playing with the marvel rpg.

What about their personality?

Does it have to be a marvel 'hero'? I like Doc Doom too.


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tony stark as a synthesist summoner sounds like fun.


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Have fun all, I won't have crunch done in that time frame.


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I'd still like to play kazikage, the half-celestial wayang wizard (you did say weird).

I previously posted a background and basic crunch.

Are you expecting full character sheets before selecting players? How many are still interested?


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I'm not sure where scrapping it is coming in.

Losing a few epic slots should not break a build.
Losing the divine protection should not break a build.
Fixing your crafting feats and equipment, should not break a build.

All together, these are really minor in consideration of the overall idea.

@CDL the tight leash of a diety is one of those 'controls' that i feel an archon has that nate was negating through his concept and background. (Though he states his deity is iomadae)

The crusader PrC requires one "Must worship a good god." Worshiping a god that was killed wouldn't seem to fit.


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@Lessah I went back and looked at the EH tree and that mundane set of feats is definitely designed to be progressive. However, the wording on the mythic EH seems to be pretty clear that it is allowing one to skip over the second two feats, IEH and GEH. Considering that a mythic feat is supposed to be pretty powerful, I'm okay with it. It is still a three feat investment. If it seems unbalancing for a particular build, we can look at that as a separate issue.

Regarding Wild Arcana, I'm fine with using the standard action as noted in the proposed errata box at d20pfsrd.


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background and fluff:

Kazekage had grown up in the outskirts of society. Lost, or abandoned by his people, he found life rough. Ever scrounging for his very existence in Katapesh, Kaze used his inherent affinity for the darker side of Katapesh to run errands for scraps of food, or a place to sleep.

Striving to dig himself out of the hell hole he lived in, without succumbing to the bliss of pesh, as so many of the beggars around him did, Kaze taught himself to read, and read voraciously. One day while in a bookstore, a rare silver coin clutched in his small hand, he was drawn to a small book, the cover ratty and stained. But something about that book called to him. Dropping the silver on the counter, he rushed from the store, book in hand. Once he was back in the eaves of a camel barn, where he had a small hammock up under the rafters, Kaze peeled open his prize. A spell book, probably an apprentice wizard's traveling book, but it pulled at him.

Studying the book was a trial, especially when he spooked the camels and had to find another place to call home. And yet Kaze studied, practiced, and learned, through much trial and error, the basics of the arcane arts.

With his newly acquired skills, the work he was hired to do started paying better, though it strayed from what would be considered legal, in a strict sense of the word. while his jobs had often been rather grey in legality, he'd managed to avoid any that hurt an innocent.

Until now, coerced into a job with the threat of enslavement in the pesh fields, Kaze struggled with himself, traveling from one temple to another, something he had never done before. None of the priests could answer his questions, constrained by their gods as they were. But still it was to these temples of life and peace that drew him, tugging at his heart with a higher purpose.

Fearing he may need to flee, and ill prepared for it, Kaze stopped at a small bistro and sat pondering the choices before him. The shadow of a giant half-orc, the legendary Zhen. A conversation soon ensued, and from this brief conversation, life changed for Kaze. His past was seemingly washed away as he was sent off to distant Valeria to attend a prestigious college of arcane studies.

Only recently had he returned, summoned to Zhen's deathbed.

the basic crunch:

Race=wayang
template=half-celestial (we'll work on what happens at later levels)
Class=wizard Conjurer [teleportation]
template=former criminal

If that works for you, I'll work on the rest of the crunch.


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Just saw the posting, and I see your need for some casting goodies.

Let me see what I can put together for some fluff and basic crunch.


While the archer may be able to put out as much or more damage, it's not likely to be against ranged touch


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For some reason I wasn't seeing updates for this. Still interested!


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Here's a few that come to mind...

Order of the Crotchet
The Darn Order
The Shrouded Order
Cloak and Lace
The Laced Guild
Weave Wrappers United (WeWUn)
The Order of Knots

:)


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Some crunch to get your eyes looking at the recruitment thread:

25th level epic game.
Just entering mythic.
No third party material.

What we are looking for, to narrow the interested players:

This is a game that has been around for a while (June of 2013). And we are looking for a few good players. This is not your standard game invitation. Please do NOT start posting character ideas or builds. Building an appropriate epic level character for this game is more than just building the most badass uber slayer possible.

We will expect that you have considered how and why your character managed to survive and become one of the most powerful heroes of Golarion. Your back story and inclusion into the backgrounds of the current players will carry more weight than how effectively you can optimize a 25th level character.

That's right, 25th level. I'm not getting into the rules for character generation yet. Like I said before, this game requires more than just making an awesome character. It also needs a player that understands cooperative play between players and the GM's. Yes, GM's. It takes a lot of work to make an epic character. It takes many times as much effort to make an encounter that can challenge epic level players.

Your eventual character will be good. That is not negotiable, don't ask (asking about something that has not been clarified is more than welcome. Asking for an exception to something clearly stated, not so much).

Please don't dot for interest. Feel free to take the time in framing your post for interest. Several of us that have been involved with this game through several iterations since August of 2012 will be reviewing your interest.

We will be looking at your posting history on this forum, including:
How many games you have posted in, the level of those games, the types of posts you have submitted for those games, and the tone of your conversations with other players and GM's in the game, discussion, and recruitment threads.

If you have never played a game higher than 15th level, this is probably not for you. If you have only ever played hack'n'slash, this is definitely not for you. If you haven't played play-by-post/email, this is not the type of game to learn it.

If you are a seasoned player that has been looking for a high-end game to test your world changing ideas, we'd like to talk to you. IF you have been itching for a game where the players are as much involved in driving the story as the GM, we'd like to talk to you.

For your first post we would like to see your viewpoint on how a character would successfully exist in Golarion at 15th level. With this kind of power a character is probably one of less than half a dozen in an entire country. We are not looking for how the specific character you may eventually build would have lived, but how 'a' character would fit into the world.

We would also like your post to provide some of your history with RPGs in general. Which ones are your favorites? what is the longest table top you have played in? Your longest pbp/pbem? From the viewpoint of a townsfolk, describe one of your favorite characters.

Some significant changes to Golarion.

A month ago one of Rovagug's spawn decimated a large tract of Taldor, A couple of week's later a large portion of Rahadoum has become nearly inaccessible. You were called before a Convocation of herald's. Dozen's of heralds were present representing their gods, and yours. Your many years of caring for the world were noted and rewarded with an expectation of further service. Upon accepting and receiving a token of your god's favor, you were imbued with just a tiny drop of godly power and sent out to protect Golarion.


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I know the specialiation part, I didn't if every skill required specialization.

Can I take points in Athletics, or do the points have to be in Athletics(Jump)?

From what I could tell, If I have Athletics, I could then spend a point to take a Focus of Athletics(Jump)?


What typo's?

The new lore is actually very old lore.

I'm welcome to suggestions and changes.

Arrg, forgot I can't easily edit the postings... sigh. But I can unset the recruitment thread and redo it.

So PLEASE, get your suggestions in.


I had a couple of proposed rule suggestions a couple posts up. Any commentary?

Also, I have posted the recruiting thread.

There are a couple of other epic games in development so I expect some quick response to the posting.

I personally feel strongly about someone that posts "dot". To me it's pretty pointless.

If you would like any edits to the initial posting, please let me know!

I have also gone back and dragged out the original material that got this game started (The Custodians). I've made that group kinda defunct. It can be a future plot device.

That gives three strong areas for character development:

1) how and why their character is epic (and how that would fit into mainstream Golarion)
2) how and why they joined the Custodians, and what they did once cutoff.
3) Their recent ascension to mythic status and their future goals.


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Here's what I have so far snoop

I still have a few holes to fill.

I'm a bit confused on the skills/focus/forte thing.

My points are going into the skills. Each of which has several uses.
Where are the focus and forte coming from?


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returning, on a pair of daggers?

That's two attacks with thrown daggers that then return. For the price of one...?


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I tend to like to play skill monkey's, and usually go for a jack-of-all-trades rather than sharp focus. I'll avoid those areas others are focusing on and try to cover a few bases adequately rather than one or two superbly.


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Did I miss where the cohort gets to level 18? Table stops at 17, and does not allow for progressing higher.

@LIRE My only issue would be if you were using one legendary ability on twice as many attacks per round by having a pair of weapons be legendary.

Which means it would be the same as saying "Can I have two legendary items that only work when together?"


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Is world on fire an acceptable sourcebook?


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I'm looking at a snoop. Still working through the basics of character generation.

I'm kinda thinking of an office analyst that either wants to be a field agent, or gets pulled into the field.


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I'll copy/paste to an alias, and have the link. It gets really, really ugly looking with the formatting required for links, so I probably won't have nearly as many links posted.


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Do you have somethign against google docs or other linked sheets? Quite simply, they are a LOT easier for characters as complicated as this.

Especially when you consider that we all pretty much have to use an off board sheet to make the character anyway (don't want to loose a ton of work when we try to save and the board times out).

But then we have to go through the sheet, and add in a lot of coding to format it for an alias.

Here's a sample character I have in another game, Epic Wizard.

All of those links and book marks, bold print, italicized print, etc needs to be coded, on top of that, you can't keep things looking neat by tabing and spacing columns on the board.


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Correction:

Player: Fnord72
Name: De'ohge
Theme: Angleic OR shadow
Alignment: NG OR CN


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@LF2

That's only on slotless items. With those you get a price break for similiar abilities, 75% of cost for the second, 50% for third and beyond. But that's generally for wholly custom gear, not combined items.


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Thank you for reading my counterpoints and not blasting me for "arguing"

That effectively means that we are using rules as noted in the book then.

To craft your own stuff, you need the appropriate feat, and you get a price break.

You can buy custom gear at the retail price if you don't have the feats.

Note that both of those options still have to pay a 50% fee for combining the qualities of two items.

Noncasters can take a feat (master crafstman?) that allows them to craft wondrous items as if they were a caster.

If you are concerned about casters having too much gear, you could just state everyone pays retail and can have whatever they want (truly custom items still need approval). No feats needed.


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Name: De'ohge
Theme: angelic/celestial OR shadow
Alignment: NG OR CN

Two options.


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@Hotaru

The GM specifically stated that the antimagic/dispel field was targeting items, the DC was 45, and it was a permanent dispel.


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@jimibones83

The crafting rules are because without them, you can't have a +5 flaming, sonic holy longsword. You also can't have a +1 silver dagger, unless it is listed as a specific weapon at d20pfsrd. You are pretty much stuck with only the specific magic weapons already listed at d20pfsrd. Which really, really sucks at this level when you potentially have many varied opponents to go up against.

And if you have ever played a high level character before, you know that you will quickly fill your slots up.

So you have a ring of protection and a ring of freefall on. Which are you taking off to put on the freedom of movement ring?

Crafting, at its simplest, lets you combine multiple items. You pay a "tax" of 50% of the cheaper items to add their ability to the most expensive item.

Casting classes have access to the crafting feats. The crafting feats generally say you spend half the cost to craft an item.

GM's are understandably leery of letting a cleric have twice as much gear as the fighter. Many GMs forget that the fighter has a crap-load of combat feats while the cleric has to spend their few feats to buy the cheaper gear.

So generally, if a GM doesn't want to have discounted crafting they won't require the feats. This opens it up to everyone being able to pick the weapon and armor qualities they want, just pay the retail price.

Unfortunately, our GM would prefer to have rules that limit crafting so much as to effectively eliminate it as an option.

For instance, with the CL 14 rule, no scrolls of spells higher than 7th level. Scrolls are the backbone of a caster, so they're kinda screwed. Well you can 'cheat' by picking a spell from the summoner list that is 6th level instead of 9th on the cleric/wizard list.

No crafted item that uses a spell of 7th level or higher (CL 15).

No metamagic rods that aren't listed since the base CL is 17 for any metamagic rod.

So really, to figure this out, just open your corebook (or other approved book), turn to the magic items pages, and pick items specifically listed.

I went back and looked at the most recent iteration of the crafting rule: "Crafted items, you pay the crafting price in coin/feats and skills with you and your army making every thing you craft. Max CL for all effects in a crafted item CL14."

It sounds like you have to have the feat(s), but you do get the price break to pay the crafting cost instead of the retail cost. But you are still limited to items that only use spells under 7th level.


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Yeah, world on fire has some interesting options.


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I'm working through a character right now, wizard/godling.

I have a feeling that all the house rules with magic gear is really confusing a few people, me included.

On the one hand, this is gestalt, mythic, and anything on d20pfsrd is allowed, including 3pp. That makes it pretty darn powerful and allows a lot of room for exploitation.

Then we get these "power controlling" rules for magic gear.

So the standard rules state that to craft magic gear you need the appropriate feats, and you pay half the retail price. This is a trade off for paying a feat tax.

Combining two or more items requires paying a 50% tax on the cheaper items. (this is the easiest way to customize gear)

One thing that might help is an explanation of what you are trying to accomplish with the house rules on crafting.

As I read it, the current house rules are:

1) You have to pay the feat tax, but get no reward in reduced cost.
2) You can't craft anything that has a combined caster level higher than 14.
3) We can have all the stock items we can afford.
4) Combining a 10,000 gold item with a 2000 gold item will cost 10,000 + (2000*1.5)+10000=23000 gold. Crafting a 500 gold item will cost an additional (500*1.5)+10000=10,750 gold, for a total cost of 33,750 gold.

If this is what you are intending, I'll just buy slotless versions and pay double. In the example above this would cost me 10,000 gold for the first item (slotted), 4000 for the second (slotless), and 1000 for the third (also slotless) for a total of 15,000 gold, half of what your crafting house rule requires.

And I have no idea what you are trying to say with "What dos combing mean, in regard to CL
It works like this,
THE CL for Belt of Tumbling is 1st, Ring of Swimming +5 is CL 2nd

ADD them, now you have CL3 you can keep adding until you get to CL14"

Here is an example of a combined item under the general crafting rules of the game:

Ring of Protection +5, Feather Fall & Sustenance CRAFTED $25,000 + (1100*1.5=)1650 + (1250*1.5=)1875 =28,525gp
The retail price is $57,050.

This requires the feat forge ring. The craft DC is 5 + item CL +5 per requirement not met (other than the feat). The ring of protection requires shield of faith and a level of bonus x3, the stock ring lists a cl of 5. The base craft DC is thus 10. At 20th level I meet everything but the spell, so I have a DC of 15 to craft the ring. You can bet my spellcraft is going to be a lot higher than 15, so success.

Crafting a feather fall effect onto the same ring has a craft DC of 5+ CL1 = DC 6, success. And finally, the sustenance has a DC of 15 as well for a CL of 5, and needing create food and water spell.

Now that ring certainly isn't a broken item for a 20th level gestalt mythic tier 10 creature.

Maybe this one is:

Ring of Freedom of Movement, Evasion & Mind Shield, CRAFTED $20,000 + ($12,500*1.5=)18750 + ($4000*1.5=)6000 =44,750gp Retail: 89,500.

The craft DC for freedom of movement is 17, adding evasion is 12, and mind shield is 8.

High caster levels on the stock items is actually against the standard rules (the items don't cost as much as they should for the given caster level). However, these caster levels are specifically for dealing with dispel checks. (lower caster level items get dispelled first)

So at the same time you are putting harsh limits on the caster level of crafted gear, you also have a test listing an antimagic field with a DC of 45 specifically against items. (no stock item short of an artifact has a chance of hitting this on anything less than a 20, and per your above house rule, no crafted item can make it short of rolling a 20)

I guess it comes down to, what are you wanting to guard against?
Here are a few simplified options to consider:
1) Require the feat, give a cost break (the fighter gets combat feats, the crafter gets more gear).
2) Limit how much crafting gets a break (say only half of the PC's personal gear can be crafted with a price break for having the feats).
3) Limit how much crafting is allowed at retail price, no feat required.
4) The only custom gear is combined items that already exist on d20pfsrd, per the standard rules. Retail prices. No feat required, anyone can have it (since retail price is paid).

Next, what do you mean by having experience available for the army's?

A leadership score of 25 gives a total of 163 npc's of levels 1-6.
You stated that Band 1 is 50 level 1-2 npcs(leadership gives 135 1st level npcs). What is the 500 xp for? It almost sounds like a 3.5 rule on XP expenditures. 500 XP is not enough to get to 2nd level, so it's effectively wasted on 1st level npcs. Are npcs in the army's going to be leveling? (Not generally something that happens with leadership followers)

While the tests are certainly interesting, I wonder if there is a realization that due to the very nature of each test (and that only the character without any familiar/intelligent gear/etc) must perform each test, that some character options are being eliminated as potential candidates.

Have you looked at the mass combat rules? They might help simplify and equalize what people have available.


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Are you wanting character sheets or just concepts?


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I'm a bit confused on the only to +5 for magic creation.

I can buy an off-the shelf Belt of physical perfection +6 for 144,000 gold.

If I want to enchant the BoPP with the effects of a Belt of Tumbling, I would normally have a retail price of $144,000 + $800*1.5=$1200 for a total of $145,200.

BUT, since I have crafted it, I now have to recalc the BoPP from a +6 bonus to a +5 bonus?

Similarly, I can buy a +5 vorpal scimitar (a +10 weapon) for $200,315. But if I want to upgrade that sword with a permanent "light" effect (normally would cost $500x1.5=$750 retail price), I have to drop the scimitar to just +5 and loose the vorpal ability?

I'm hoping that you simply meant that weapons and armor could not have more than a +5 enhancement bonus. That magic gear was capped at it's existing maximums, stacking rules still applied, and there was no price break for crafting gear. Custom gear that was not simply combining items of the same slot (for example a ring of sustenance and levitation) required GM approval.

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