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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 2,526 posts. 10 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Because someone might want to use actual armor that provides a better AC bonus. 3rd or 4th level PCs might want full plate armor, for instance.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This book looks interesting. I have a lot of reading on my plate right now though.

Someone should ping EZG! ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Regarding Marat as he his in V2 of the playtest. I would not use him, ever. The problem with how he appeared in PMU: Vol 1/ playtest v1, as someone pointed out, is that the bonus was too good at level 1 (ie. +13 AC). But too many changes were made to the minor granted powers, and not beneficial ones.

What follows is my alternative:
Note that Marat's Body is based on the typical armor revelation of an oracle. Marat's Shield summons an actual shield, so two-handed weapon users cannot benefit, unlike before. Unimpeded is back for characters who can afford better armor. The starting AC bonus is +5, as with the V2 version, and tops out at +18, but some characters can afford better if they wish. (And this uses fewer words than the v2 version.)

Bodyguard: While bound to Marat, you gain the benefits of Bodyguardapg.
Marat’s Body: You encase yourself in Marat’s armored body as a full-round action, functioning as mage armor. At 7th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the AC bonus increases by +2. In addition, Marat’s body possesses light fortification at 4th level, upgrading to moderate fortification at 12th level.
Marat’s Shield: While bound to Marat, you gain the ability to summon a masterwork light shield as a full-round action, with which you are proficient. The shield vanishes if put down or if you summon a second shield. At 6th level and every four levels thereafter, your shield gains a +1 enhancement bonus to its AC, to a maximum of +4. In addition, Marat’s shield becomes a heavy shield at 4th level, upgrading to mithril at 7th level.
Unimpeded: While bound to Marat, your speed is not modified by armor and you reduce the armor check penalty that you suffer from wearing armor by half your binder level. Your movement is impeded normally by medium and heavy loads.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Your description sounds a bit like what Xin's plan was. Didn't turn out too well! ;)


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Congrats both!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that on the UC summoner spell list has multiple spells that are in found in different spell levels? examples are ant haul and protection from evil are both 1st and 2nd level spells.

Dragon, the communal versions of those spells are listed at second level.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Reviewed


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Reviewed


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Having otherwise been busy, I've now read the Automatic Bonus Progression pages. I like it.

When applied to NPCs (regardless of racial HD), I assume that the bonuses applied should relate to CR?

For example, a human fighter 5 NPC (CR 4) wouldn't gain the deflection +1 bonus. If that NPC has PC wealth, then they would be CR 5 and hence gain the deflection +1 bonus.

Similarly, a ogre fighter 1 NPC (CR 4) wouldn't gain the deflection +1 bonus either.


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To the OP, this is an interesting thread.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Congrats, Dexion! :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I was teasing a little, Brad, but thanks.

I'd like to know if there is a "BigSixless" option, for want of a better name.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As long as your surname isn't Zucchini, if they do it alphabetically! ;)


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Congrats, Ssalarn. Have a nice time! :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Technology Guide, along with all the other "campaign setting" line (softback) books, are 64 pages.


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Thank you Malwing, and everyone else who has made a review or many! :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"Q: If Tartarus is meant to be impossible or near impossible to make a good pact with, is there an actual need for a DC to bind it?"

A 20th-level binder gets the capstone empowerment of any spirit that they form a good pact with. See the second part of Occult Mastery, page 6 of the playtest document. I missed that until a few days ago.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Fair enough.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Regarding Marat, I think it's fine to leave it as it was in PMU volume 2. GMs who don't want player characters to have it can then ban it, make it a level two spirit, or simply make it unavailable as a choice for characters with the Amateur Occultist feat.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Regarding when the occultist gains multiple spirits. Level 4 is fine, but level 16 for the 4th spirit is not IMO. Most groups don’t get to such levels, but many do. Most Adventure Paths finish at levels 16 or 17, which means that a player character occultist would have just some of a level or maybe a level and a bit in which to experience the ability to bind 4 spirits.
IMO, restoring the level at which the fourth spirit is gained to 14 would be much better for players, as then can then experiment with using four spirits at a time for a while before reaching the campaign conclusion.
But if you do that, you’ll also need to change it so that the third spirit is gained at level 9, so that there is consistency with when multiple spirits are gained.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Alex, as you say, Flexible Pactmaking was a no-brainer feat. That’s because it was absolutely necessary; a feat tax, if you will. (This is also the case for Capstone Binder, but I’ll get to that later.) With the current binding DCs, NPCs in particular are shafted, less so for PCs. Perhaps GMs should always assume that NPCs roll 20s for their binding checks? (That’s not meant as sarcasm, nor is the rest of the post.)

For example, no NPC can get the capstone empowerment of Tartarus, which is clearly a spirit meant to be used by bad guys.
10 (half level 20) + 8 (Cha bonus) + 5 (Flexible Pactmaking at max duration) + 6 (correct alignment/3 totems) + 4 (items) = 33 + roll of 20 = 53 (can’t get capstone).
Reducing specific binding DCs won’t solve the problem. Apologies for the walls of text!

Here are some illustrations of how the system currently works:

Spoiler:

Here’s an illustration for a 1st-level binder (assume a Cha bonus of +2; 15 array):
1st-level spirits: DC 13-19 (Note that the DC 13 is a Dark Beyond spirit.)

0 (half of level 1) + 2 (Cha) + 0 (no Flexible Pactmaking) = +2, +1d20 (10.5) or 12.5 average.
0 (half of level 1) + 2 (Cha) + 5 (Flexible Pactmaking for max duration) = +7, +1d20 (10.5) or 17.5 average.
0 (half of level 1) + 2 (Cha) + 10 (old Flexible Pactmaking bonus for max duration) = +12, +1d20 (10.5) or 22.5 average.

Without Flexible Pactmaking, that’s a 12.5 average, so 1st level binders can’t get a good pact on average unless they have the correct alignment and totems that add up to +6 more as well*.

Here’s an illustration for a 17th-level binder (assume a Cha bonus of +6; 15 array, +4 headband, +3 from level gains= 22):
9th-level spirits: DC 31-50 (!)
8 (half of level 17) + 6 (Cha) + 0 (no Flexible Pactmaking) + 2 (Constellation Focus feat) +2 (Spirit Focus feat) = +14(/+16/+18), +1d20 (10.5) or 24.5/26.5/28.5 average.

8 (half of level 17) + 6 (Cha) + 5 (Flexible Pactmaking for max duration) + 2 (Constellation Focus feat) +2 (Spirit Focus feat) = +19(/+21/+23), +1d20 (10.5) or 29.5/31.5/33.5 average.

8 (half of level 17) + 6 (Cha) + 10 (old Flexible Pactmaking bonus for max duration) + 2 (Constellation Focus feat) +2 (Spirit Focus feat) = +24(/+26/+28), +1d20 (10.5) or 34.5/36.5/38.5 average.

Here’s an illustration for a 20th-level binder (assume a Cha bonus of +8; 15 array, +6 headband, +5 from level gains (or +3 level gains and +2 from race)= 26):
9th-level spirits: DC 31-50 (!)
10 (half of level 20) + 8 (Cha) + 0 (no Flexible Pactmaking) + 2 (Constellation Focus feat) +2 (Spirit Focus feat) = +23(/+25/+27), +1d20 (10.5) or 28.5/30.5/32.5 average.

10 (half of level 20) + 8 (Cha) + 5 (Flexible Pactmaking for max duration) + 2 (Constellation Focus feat) +2 (Spirit Focus feat) = +23(/+25/+27), +1d20 (10.5) or 33.5/35.5/37.5 average.

10 (half of level 20) + 8 (Cha) + 10 (old Flexible Pactmaking bonus for max duration) + 2 (Constellation Focus feat) +2 (Spirit Focus feat) = +28(/+30/+32), +1d20 (10.5) or 38.5/40.5/42.5 average.

Correct alignment and totems can add +6 more as well*.
Without Flexible Pactmaking, that’s a 28.5/30.5/32.5 averages, so even 20th-level NPC binders can’t get a good pact on average with 9th level spirits unless they have the correct alignment and totems that add up to +6 more as well and are lucky.

* Of course, it’s unlikely that an occultist will often meet all three totems, so at best +4 might be gained from correct alignment and one totem qualified for.

Endless Chalk and a Cloak of Constellations can add +1 or +4 bonus to checks (unless the two bonuses stack), but NPCs can’t really afford the cloak** because they will need other equipment as well to *try* to be viable for the CR, because of the poor amount of equipment they have in relation to PCs.

** A 20th-level NPC occultist has 159,000 of equipment. A +6 Cha headband and the cloak cost 60,000 gps, leaving only 99,000 for everything else. A 17th-level NPC occultist has only 75,000 gp of equipment. Meanwhile, a 17th-level PC has 410,000 gp worth of equipment.

It seems that as the DCs currently are, even 20th level NPC occultists can’t forge good pacts with most 9th level spirits, let alone get capstone empowerments!

For purposes of the following information, I’m going to elaborate on what assumed Charisma scores should be for NPC occultists:

Spoiler:
Levels
1-3 Cha 15 (elite array)
4-7 Cha 16 (elite array, +1 HD-related)
8-11 Cha 17 (elite array, +2 HD-related)
12-15 Cha 20 (elite array, +3 HD-related, +2 headband (that’s the first time an NPC can really afford a +2 belt; 16,350 wealth at 12th level))
16-17 Cha 23 (elite array, +4 HD-related, +4 headband (58,500 gp wealth at 16th level))
18-19 Cha 25 (elite array, +4 HD-related, +6 headband (96,000 gp wealth at 18th level))
20 Cha 26 (elite array, +5 HD-related, +6 headband)

Here are my suggestions to for sensible binding checks and binding DCs, while simplifying the system as well:

Spoiler:

1) A binding check is 1d20 + binder level* + Cha bonus, with the only two possible additions being same alignment +2 and Constellation Focus +2.
* That’s full binder level, not 1/2 binder level in case it seems I’m not clear!
2) Scrap Endless Chalk, Cloak of Constellations and any other new magic items that provide a boost to binding checks. They give PCs too much of an advantage.
3) Scrap the potential binding check bonuses that totems provide. If you still want to use totems, have them help towards the Knowledge checks for learning spirits, not towards binding checks. Keep any totems that require the occultist to not be bound to certain spirits before binding the particular spirit, but call such totems a restriction instead.
4) Change Spirit Focus so that it doesn’t add to binding checks, but does something else aside from the +1 to save DCs; perhaps it instead adds to Knowledge checks to learn a particular spirit. Keep Constellation Focus the same as before.
5) The DC to gain a capstone empowerment should be 5 lower than previously (ie to base DC +5). Scrap the Capstone Empowerment and Flexible Pactmaking feats; while they are nice ideas, they are feat taxes. Capstone Empowerments are a vital part of the class; to not get them because of a small chance of success is silly.
6) A roll of 1 should always be a fail on the binding check.
7) Change binding DCs so that they are all standardised for particular spirit levels. They should be difficult enough so that (except for 1st level spirits), the occultist requires an 11 to gain the capstone empowerment each day (or rolling 6 to forge a good pact), upon reaching the minimum level to bind a particular spirit level. These DCs will be, for each spirit level:

Spirit Level 1: DC 11 (base DCs should be the same as for level 2 spirits, as the occultist is learning his trade, so to speak; this means that a typical 1st level occultist will need an 8 to make a good pact (level 1 + 2 Cha + roll of 8 =11), and a 13 to get the capstone empowerment)
Spirit Level 2: DC 11 (level 3 + 2 Cha = 5, +6 for Base, +5 for capstone = 11 / 16)
Spirit Level 3: DC 14 (level 5 + 3 Cha = 8, +6 for Base, +5 for capstone = 14 / 19)
Spirit Level 4: DC 16 (level 7 + 3 Cha = 10, +6 for Base, +5 for capstone = 16 / 21)
Spirit Level 5: DC 18 (level 9 + 3 Cha = 12, +6 for Base, +5 for capstone = 18 / 23)
Spirit Level 6: DC 20 (level 11 + 3 Cha = 14, +6 for Base, +5 for capstone = 20 / 25)
Spirit Level 7: DC 24 (level 13 + 5 Cha = 18, +6 for Base, +5 for capstone = 24 / 29)
Spirit Level 8: DC 26 (level 15 + 5 Cha = 20, +6 for Base, +5 for capstone = 26 / 31)
Spirit Level 9: DC 29 (level 17 + 6 Cha = 23, +6 for Base, +5 for capstone = 29 / 34)

This means that at level 20, an occultist needs to roll an 8 to get the capstone for any 9th-level spirit, down to 4 if they have the correct alignment and Constellation Focus.

These DCs & basis for determining binding checks seem reasonable to me. Player characters may have a small advantage now, but not an extreme one. NPC occultists are workable. Anyone agree?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Eos Dei (page 103), Lord Foxglove (page 120), and Mana (page 229) don't have alignments.

Elysium Choir (page 208) is listed as a Thief spirit (!) on his page, and as angel on the spirit table. Obviously it's an angel spirit. ;) The binding DC for Elysium Choir is 28. In PMU 2, it was 27.

The binding DC for Green Glomairah (page 173) is 33. In PMU 2, it was 23.

The binding DC for Death Howls (page 188) is 25. In PMU 2, it was 21.

The binding DC for Portenta (page 215) is 27. In PMU 2, it was 28.

Kaylos (page 251) is now a seer spirit. Originally, it was a fiend spirit.

There are two level 2 skull spirits (Hollow Eyes and Prince Oszen), but no level 2 fiend spirit. Was that intentional?


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The spirits are listed alphabetically by their spirit levels.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kajehase wrote:
What's the damage for hitting someone with a windmill-sail?

Ask Don Quixote. ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If the GM has put the effort in to create an interesting setting and story, play along. Don't be a dick. It's disrespectful, especially if the GM is a friend of yours.

Of course, it might turn out to be spectacularly bad, but for now at least trust the GM! It might turn out to be a lot of fun!


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Reviewed


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nope, that creature is described in It Came From The Stars Campaign Guide. *This* page is for It Came From The Stars Extras.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Luthorne, there is. When you open the survey open another tab, and look for the "story" page.

Here's the link if it helps.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The surveys have been sent out. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Each spell grants the bonuses that they grant. The bonuses don't stack with different level versions of each spell.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

On the plus side, once that PC gets mithril heavy armor (as long as he has at least 3 fighter levels) then he can move at full speed.


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11 hours to go!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Good luck with that! :)

Looks like an adventure that DMs should play Manowar in the background!


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"the phrenologist bard"

Huh. They hit people on the head to improve their personalities...

(Bet that joke has been done already!)


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Some players like to wreck people's games.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There is control construct in Ultimate Magic, but the duration is concentration, so that's probably not what you're after.


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Thanks guys.

Bookrat: Anywhere you want to. Wherever you buy them from if you like.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you buy a 3pp book and like it, please write a review! :)

It will help raise the profile of that book, whatever it is, and if enough people write reviews of all 3pp books they like, then the amount of 3pp books sold across the board will surely increase.

Just a thought!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Reviewed


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Reviewed


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Thanks, Ainvar. Funnily enough, I played a binder in Savage Tide as well! :)


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Ocean, sorry that you feel that way. I'm sure that there is no attempt to make it feel exclusionary. Personally, I wish that there were at least ten times as many backers so that it was more mainstream within the Pathfinder game! ;)

Pact magic as a game concept was originally introduced as the binder class in the 3.5 Tome of Magic. It's a class where you can bind one or more spirits to you each day. Each spirit offers a range of supernatural abilities. There are different themes to each of the spirits; for example, there are angel spirits, fiend spirits, tree spirits (which reflect themes of nature), dragon spirits, and so on. It's an intriguing class and the binder was one of my favourites from the 3.x era.

Here's a link to the class on d20pfsrd. For some reason the link for the individual spirits doesn't work for me.

Here's a guide that someone wrote about it. Note that it doesn't include all the volume 2 spirits.

Hope that helps. :)


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Email one of the IT staff to remove it, asking nicely.

Maybe your above post will do, though.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Shouldn't be more than one card per spirit, IMO; that would just drive the cost up. As others have said, the seal isn't important for ingame use, if they (the cards) are used for quick reference purposes.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This (Tiny Monstrous Humanoids) might be of use to you!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you do away with iterative attacks, bear in mind that displacement and mirror image become much more powerful.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

To help people out with picking special qualities, here’s a table for those options:

Spoiler:
Special Quality Options:
The following table lists the special quality options alphabetically by minimum CR. Where abilities have prerequisites but do not have a minimum level given, those abilities are given a minimum level. For example, the undead creature cannot gain Greater Master of Vermin before reaching CR 9, because it has two prerequisite special qualities.

CR 3:
Ability Damage
All-Around Vision
Bind Spirit
Breath Weapon (disease)
Cursed Wound
Death Throes
Dimension Lock
Diseased Pustules
Energy Drain
Enhance Armour
Enhance Weapon
Faith-Stealing Strike
Fast Healing
Gaseous Form
Heretical Soul
Master of the Undead
Master of Vermin
Regeneration
Rejuvenation (both options)
Rend
Resist Holy Energy
Ruinous Strikes
Sacrilegious Aura
Smite Good
Spell-Like Abilities (first time gained)
Spell Resistance
Stench
Superior Two-Weapon Fighting
Touch of Corruption

CR 6:
Ability Drain
Breath Weapon (negative energy damage)
Channel Negative Energy
Despair
Frightful Moan
Gaze Attack (corrupting, dominate)
Improved Ability Drain
Improved Master of the Undead
Improved Master of Vermin
Improved Spell Resistance
Telekinesis

CR 9:
Breath Weapon (weakening)
Devour Soul
Gaze Attack (death gaze)
Greater Master of the Undead
Greater Master of Vermin
Master of Acid
Master of Cold
Master of Darkness
Master of Electricity
Master of Fire
Misfortune (should have had a Minimum CR of 9).
Tongue

CR 12:
Alien Presence (all)
Breath Weapon (poison breath)
Improved Damage Reduction
Infectious Laughter
Spell-Like Abilities (second time gained)

CR 15:
Greater Damage Reduction

CR 18:
Spell-Like Abilities (third time gained)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just going to add that the carrot is better than the stick, if you want to recruit her to your cause.


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Reviewed.


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Have you looked in the Gamer Connection sub-forum here?

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/connection

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