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Pathfinder Society Member. 519 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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It's not railroading, it is about balance. It goes with the saying "Jack of all trades, master of none." in that you can spread your effort and time into everything but you wont be great at much of anything. For example, how many people do you know are a doctor and in the evening go work at a garage changing breaks faster than anyone else?

True this is a game and we are making exceptions to the rule but the idea remains the same...you get so many points and feats to reflect your experience and can spread only so far... nothing prevents you from multiclassing but in the end you wont be as good at something as if you stayed one class.

A inquisitor is nice because you come close and if you know what you are doing you can break a barrier or two... That is where the fun is, my archer doesn't have pbm, snap shot..combat reflexes etc...but he doesn't really need it when he is hitting far harder.


Sorry Chaos but there are way too many "must haves" on your list. Is point blank master mandatory? Heck no, unless you plan to melee every encounter...most archers shouldnt be in that position...when it comes up, you can use litany of sloth to move out of that rough spot and nuke the person who dared threaten you. Really you are so focused on melee with a bow you are forgetting the most important things. Keeping distance.

To give a idea how my inquisitor goes, he uses his animal companion as a meat shield to keep distance IF he had to go melee spend a standard to lose a teamwork for outflank. So with a mace and his spells in effect (level 8 he is at +19/+14 1D6+7 +2d6..(not counting bane) while flanking with his companion (not to mention all the nasty damage a large tiger is doing to the opponent on top)...not bad for a mace and no real feats to back it up at level 8


Man that truly sucks had it on the companion and my character and glossed over the prereq assuming it was just for the character and not the companion. A ring of tactical precision wouldnt work on a quadruped... so the question is besides another level in another class is there another way to get the companion that feat.


I went the sanctified slayer route with the feather domain...honestly people are in shock with the damage i can do. Another teamwork feat to add to the list is Improved spell sharing...basically round 1 cast a spell on yourself and the animal companion at 1/2 duration...but cmon how long does something survive when you just divine favored yourself and your large tiger??


One thing i find rough about the dwarf is the con and wis bonus... taking a hit to str or dex sucks. But a bbn boost would get me a decent str.

While not a perfect fit i was kinda looking at a warpriest (a sacred fist or maybe a arsenal chaplain)


So reading up on Felix and Gotrek and wondering if anyone had a idea how to make a dwarven slayer in pathfinder? Did one in 4e which worked really nice but having trouble matching it up nicely in pathfinder (preferably pfs)


Biggest worry I have is using the points to summon. I like the idea of the strong summons and picking up some utility as I go along


So I'm debating on either the exploiter wizard or the occultist, arcanist. I read where some feel the exploiter is just better overall (for the life of me just cant see the why) I am liking the idea of going a summoner route so the occultist does appeal. This would be pfs


Size alteration is a standard though


Yeah I really like the vibe of the class was thinking about it before the investigator. @Chess I agree the investigator will be fun...but sometimes you just want to hit something really hard ya know :)

I just realized I missed a important part of the class..that you can use the invested power in the item to fuel the powers. (thought you had to invest in transmutation and then keep some points aside for say sudden speed. That helps a lot. I need to get a few minutes to look at extra options vs specializing but really seems like focusing on the battle host might be be a good direction for what I'm aiming to do.


So I got my archer inquisitor to lvl 8 and the swash/investigator is up to level 3... kinda love/hate it atm so debating on going with my original idea of a occultist. Thinking a warrior type with a great sword, transmutation first and foremost with a liberal helping of leadblade and shield when I can. At least when looking at the battle host I'm finding that Focus powers and mental focus take priority pretty quickly. So leaning towards a half elf for the favored bonus. Since this is for PFS I'm thinking about taking skill focus to linguistics along with orator.

That said I'm wondering if I'm losing too much going battle host in ways of utility.I admit the big selling point for me though is you dont have to worry about other implements other than the one. (Probably plate armor) But getting more schools will give me more options...

What is everyone else's opinion?


True, and as i said a variation of a sword and board build...as in instead of using the shield as a weapon...just have the sword hit even harder. In this case add your level to the weapon's damage to offset the second weapon (and then challenge on top)

As a quick idea (by no means in depth was just goofing around)

Human cavalier (daring champion) 6
Medium humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 11, flat-footed 20 (+9 armor, +1 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 58 (6d10+18)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +4
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee rapier +10/+5 (1d6+4/18-20+6 Precision)
Special Attacks banner +2, challenge 2/day (+6 damage, +2 dam while only you threaten), panache (2), precise strike, tactician 2/day (Outflank, 6 rds)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +6; CMB +10; CMD 21
Feats Dazzling Display, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Iron Will, Outflank[APG], Power Attack, Shadow Strike[APG], Skill Focus (Handle Animal), Step Up
Traits dangerously curious, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics -6 (-10 to jump), Bluff +10, Climb +1, Diplomacy +10, Handle Animal +9, Intimidate +11, Ride -2, Sense Motive +9, Swim +1, Use Magic Device +10
Languages Common
SQ braggart, champion's finesse, order of the cockatrice, swashbuckler initiative
Other Gear full plate, buckler, rapier, 130 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Banner +2/+1 (Ex) Allies who can see your banner gain +2 save vs. fear & +1 to hit while charging.
Braggart (Ex) Demoralize as a standard action, +2 to hit demoralized targets.
Champion's Finesse At 1st level, a daring champion gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and he can use Charisma in place of Intelligence for the purpose of combat feats prerequisites. A daring champion also coun
Cockatrice's Challenge +6 (2/day) (Ex) +6 to damage target, -2 AC vs. others when used, +2 damage when you are the only one threatening the target.
Dazzling Display Intimidate check to demoralize can affect those within 30' who see you.
Deed: Precise Strike +6 (Ex) While 1 panache, bonus to att/dam with light/one-hand piercing weapon.
Deed: Swashbuckler Initiative (Ex) While have Panache, free hand draws light or 1-hand pierce wep as part of the init roll.
Outflank Increase flank bonus by +2 if flanking ally has same feat. If you crit, ally gets an AoO.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shadow Strike You can deal precision damage against targets with some concealment.
Step Up When a foe makes a 5 ft step away from you, you can move 5 ft to follow them.
Tactician (Outflank, 6 rds, 2/day) (Ex) Grant the use of your teamwork feats to all allies in 30 ft.


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A variation of a good sword and shield build would be a daring champion or a swashbuckler. You could have a solid actually, do decent damage with the damage boost. A modest amount of skills and take a trait to get umd so you have some magic utility


One thing I've been tossing around is to retrain the swashbuckler and investigator and one trait, to go the daring champion cavalier. I would have less flexibility but would deal a lot more damage. Then again I could keep the swashbuckler and go straight until level 5. Just worried damage will always be down


While not great there is a fighter archetype called child of acavna and amaznen. She goes straight fighter but losses some abilities to gain a handful of spells. Also a paladin or ranger might work too. They are more combat but with a handful of spells. Obviously with the ranger I would go without a companion


Thing is if I take quick study at 5 I would have to use a normal feat to get it (level 6 I get the bonus investigator feat) I really like stylish riposte but is it worth it when it can only be used against a person once?

What is nice is the furious enchant works off the spell rage.. might be something to consider.


@Malkin Than you for the line idea. As for another class, I'm a bit hesitant. Going a second dip really hurts the progression, not to mention some gms get kinda testy on the whole extract v potions...furious weapon is pretty nice but I'm already trying to balance a weapon with too many things i need. (answering, inspired, keen, and fortuitous.)

Plan so far:
Level 3..pick up combat reflexes (for multiple parry and riposte, not to mention while using longarm)

Level 4: mutagen for dex 30 mins +4 dex and +2 ac

Level 5: really big one, Gain studied combat (+2 hit and damage) while I could spend a feat on quick study I'm leaning towards weapon trick for stylish riposte (person misses me by 5 once per day I can make a attack of opp against them) Also I would buy the most expensive heroism potion I could find for Alchemical allocation. Also my favored class bonus kicks in so i get +1 to my inspiration rolls

Level 6 is of course quick study

Level 7 would be for deific obedience (Irori) for +4 to all knowledge rolls

So without too much gear I would have about +15 to knowledge checks, would be about +18 to hit and 1D6+9 damage...the damage feels low but on the flip side I'm hoping to see a couple free shots in there too


I like the idea of going straight investigator from here on out...plan to kinda plan out a bit. But honestly last adventure I kinda hit a bit of a wall. How would you play a character with 7 cha but a +9 diplomacy? The gm was asking "what does your character say" honestly I've realized I'm not a roleplayer in that regard...not that I'm antisocial...I spend all day at work talking... but just not sure how much I want to go that route... (almost to the point of starting over or if the retraining might be worth it


This is for PFS...wanted to make a character that could fit into any group and go. He does have a name, I just erased it... what you dont like "the man with no name" concept? :) I agree, kinda based him off of Sherlock...err well the guy that Sherlock was inspired by :) One thing I'm a tad worried about is if his damage will add up. 5 levels would give me some really nice boosts...but yeah trying to figure if one way would be better than another


So currently playing a level 1 Inspired swash/empiricist investigator I'm about to hit level 3 and my original plan was to keep going investigator. Part of me is wondering if I should keep going swash until he gets to level 5 swash. then back to investigator. Just a bit worried since he is currently more of a generalist.

Unnamed Hero
Male half-elf investigator (empiricist) 1/swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 56, 100, 125)
NG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +4; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +4 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 16 (2 HD; 1d8+1d10+2)
Fort +3, Ref +9, Will +4; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee mwk rapier +7 (1d6+4/18-20)
Special Attacks deeds (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), panache (4)
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +4)
1st—long arm[ACG], long arm[ACG]
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 15
Feats Fencing Grace, Skill Focus (Use Magic Device), Weapon Focus (rapier)
Traits forlorn, student of philosophy
Skills Acrobatics +5, Bluff +3 (+8 to lie (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Craft (alchemy) +7 (+8 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +3 (+8 to persuade others but not to gather information (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Disable Device +8, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (religion) +7, Linguistics +7, Perception +8, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +7, Use Magic Device +6; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Ancient Osiriani, Common, Elven, Goblin, Infernal, Orc
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +1), elf blood, inspiration (3/day), inspired panache, trapfinding +1
Combat Gear wand of cure light wounds, wand of shield (50 charges), alchemist's fire (3); Other Gear chain shirt, buckler, mwk rapier, cloak of resistance +1, alchemy crafting kit[APG], backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, ink, inkpen, investigator starting formula book, masterwork thieves' tools, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 1,878 gp, 1 cp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Alchemy +1 (Su) +1 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Deeds
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Fencing Grace Use Dexterity on rapier damage rolls
Inspiration (+1d6, 3/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Inspired Panache (Ex) Gain no panache from killing blow, only from rapier crits.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.


Yeah not keen on that but for a dex build that is the only way. Might add enlarge later on. Thanks


So finally going at my investigator/ swashbuckler and wanted to makes sure longarm works the way I think. Mainly it just says increase melee range by 5. So I basically gain a reach Eason. Dies that mean I can threaten within 10ft and still attack normally within 5 ft of me. I know it sounds obviously but want to be sure.


I really think aura of heroism lessens the need for multiple heroism prepped. The evangelist is a compromise... greater buffing at the cost of having the ability to prep ahead of time. Honestly between a modest investment of cha and a wand will cover you pretty well (if you want maybe level 2+ spells prepped) But as you mentioned if there is another person using heals I would leave it for a case by case option (aka if he isnt there) Pick up lingering performance asap. In your opening post you mentioned you were looking for a buffer first, someone obsessed with heroes


You could go evangelist... you would gain inspire courage but sadly would lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure. Add that to heroism and you are putting out some solid buffs. Honestly at 8th level you could use aura of heroism...which is pretty nice. If you really need to cast more greater heroism...you could pick up a pearl of power...but at like 36000 it is a bit steep.

Also why the need for cha? If it is for more channels I would tone it back...channel healing is nice in the begining but then it kinda loses its luster. I would keep it under 14 if you want more maybe go for the feat


I agree if you arent sold on the witch, why make one? I think the witch actually is better but it really comes down to what you are looking for. A witch is more a spellcaster..she really only needs to get her int up to a decent level everything else is just nice.. spell wise you can get more debuffing spells. Dont get me wrong I love the shaman and I keep trying to make one but then you find out it is a really mad class almost on par with cleric...maybe worse. They both have a role..the shaman is more combat oriented and the witch is a caster


Sorry Pale king not trying to hijack your thread. I've been tossing around if i was gonna pick up the book...looks like I will be. You lose a lot but really you are gaining some interesting options.

@Axial No clue who that is gonna check into it.

@Drahliana Moonrunner I actually love that type of character, the idea of a shining knight fighting evil and never being touched by it becomes a stretch after awhile. I was tempted to quote Nietzsche but I'll skip that :) I do think it is a stretch to start at level 1 as such but I'm not gonna complain.


Lol I have to admit I got a huge grin on my face when you mentioned dwarf Ventnor. When I was playing 4e I made probably my favorite character to date..Granted it was a dwarf fighter, but it was the build where he kept getting temp hp. Based him off of Gotrek character in warhammer. This might be a good fix... probably take Steel soul at level 1 and power attack at 3...then extra lay on hands after that :)


There is a lot more to it than that. You gain a hit and deflection from smite at +4 (so it was like you had 18 cha) 4+int to skills along with some really nice skills. Losing divine grace and detect evil is really rough though. Alone in the dark is a built in oath of vengeance and second chance! Aka "I'm about to fall unconscious let me cast lay on hands before I do" It is actually a interesting archetype (sorry just seeing it :P) You give up the team aspect of a paladin but you become a grim slayer of evil type.


Str is nice, I actually tried it but had no luck. Between str draining effects and fellow players getting in the way of the spear I just wasnt feeling it. Granted groups vary, some people will work with you and others might not realize in their rush to get in front... While enlarge is nice you are also losing 2 to dex (so your ac actually goes down 2)and another to hit...which is offset by the +2 str... still kinda hurts at low levels


@wise old man.. I actually thought about two weapon fighting but I decided to go the route most have pointed out. I really would like toughness but just having a tough time picking it up...actually my first physical enh item is a toss up between dex or con.

@D@rK-SePHiRoTH-...holy cow that fortuitous looks pretty nice..as it stands my plan is to take weapon trick at level 5 (quick study at level 6) Was debating if the weapon trick was worth it but with that enhancement it seems to be. But it is back to wanting all these things on the weapon...the scabbard will be a must at this point. I do plan to use long arm extract to increase my range by 5ft. probably starting next level or maybe level 4.

@Avr.. prestige points are still kinda iffy to me but as you go up you can use it to haul your corpse back and for res as you go up. You basically get 2 pp on a good run. For this plan though you can use 2 pp to purchase 1 item 750g or below so the level 1 wands fall just in range. I'll probably will end up with the wands for most of the adventures. (Most people will bring a spare wand to be used on themselves but if i tank the roll I plan to substitute. Come level 3 I'll be in better shape At +12 umd ... think i could burn a inspiration point for another 1D6 if i roll a one...so close.

As for the knowledge checks and getting the one point in each add in +4 for deific obedience, +2 heroism, +2 heightened awareness and +1D6(+1 or 2 later on) I'm looking at roughly 15+1d6 for knowledge rolls...that is one feat, and one skill point in each...heroism is a must and I like the vibe of heightened awareness so min (i think) investment to become a book on top of his other skills


Personally I have a level 2 swash/investigator. The one level dip is a hassle but you get all those feats along with riposte which kinda stacks as you level. I have a post going right now you might want to look at for some ideas. If you go mutagen for dex I would move your wis up to 12. I found saves are always needed so going the whole fate's favored and sacred tattoo for the +2 to all saves might be a good idea.


Obviously next level my skills get a major boost switching some important ones to int. Then for Feat I'm getting combat reflexes. My favored bonus is going into the 1/4 to add to inspiration rolls.


@Wise old man...agreed I was half awake but wanted to get some ideas asap...though with the tropic storm it might be a wash this weekend.

Unnamed Hero
Male half-elf investigator (empiricist) 1/swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 56, 100, 125)
NG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +4; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +4 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 16 (2 HD; 1d8+1d10+2)
Fort +3, Ref +9, Will +4; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee mwk rapier +7 (1d6+4/18-20)
Special Attacks deeds (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), panache (4)
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +4)
1st—shield (2)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 15
Feats Fencing Grace, Skill Focus (Use Magic Device), Weapon Focus (rapier)
Traits forlorn, student of philosophy
Skills Acrobatics +5, Bluff +3 (+8 to lie (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Craft (alchemy) +7 (+8 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +3 (+8 to persuade others but not to gather information (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Disable Device +8, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (religion) +7, Linguistics +7, Perception +8, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +7, Use Magic Device +6; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Ancient Osiriani, Common, Elven, Goblin, Infernal, Orc
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +1), elf blood, inspiration (3/day), inspired panache, trapfinding +1
Combat Gear wand of cure light wounds, alchemist's fire (3); Other Gear chain shirt, buckler, mwk rapier, cloak of resistance +1, alchemy crafting kit[APG], backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, ink, inkpen, investigator starting formula book, masterwork thieves' tools, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 38 gp, 1 cp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Alchemy +1 (Su) +1 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Deeds
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Fencing Grace Use Dexterity on rapier damage rolls
Inspiration (+1d6, 3/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Inspired Panache (Ex) Gain no panache from killing blow, only from rapier crits.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.


So playing my inspired swash/empiricist investigator (level 2) in the pfs sat and I'e kinda realized that all the nice things I've been looking at are starting to add up. General concept is he started as a swashbuckler but he found he had a better knack and deconstructing things/people. So I'm already pinched on skill points, even with a 16 int... So 9 skill points per level but craft alchemy, disable device, perception, bluff, diplomacy sense motive and umd are tied up each level...leaving 2 to spread out each level..plan to get at least a point into each knowledge and picking up deific obedience irori to get my knowledge to a decent level. Obviously extracts will be mainly self buffs with no real plan to take infusions. But I'm realizing I kinda need a lot of things...right now I have one wand of cure light, but I'm paranoid I would roll a one so leaning towards another backup and then a wand of shield. So prestige points are bleeding but right now planning to keep wands there. Anything you guys would recommend.. just picked up a cloak of resist, mw thieves tools, a mithril chain shirt is up there on the list. Even my rapier is conflicted at looking at a +1/inspired/keen/and the only that gives you the huge bonus to riposte. Am I trying to cover too many bases?


Agreed but in terms of craft she already has alchemy (for dayjob check). Trying to help her with advice due to having only so many skill points per level. I'll admit I have no clue of the factions I've just done silver crusade and grand lodge. So if it is a choice between a more useful skill (say diplomacy or disable device) and profession eh for role playing having appraise, diplomacy, sense motive, bluff and knowledge: local make you a merchant not a skill point. Agree with you that maybe profession helps to run a business but by background she only helped run.


To me profession is kinda redundant...you have all the other skills to be a merchant, why spend one more point to say that you are a merchant? When I was playing this character, the first couple adventures involved str draining attacks... I watched the character crumple under the weight of his gear. I still cant decide if preparing the extract is worth it (there are a bunch of other things I'd rather prep) What is truly amusing to me is your background could almost be applied to my character, you went the merchant route and i went the more magically fascinated route :P

Some items on my list (for ideas..*is for taking a closer look)Eyes of the Eagle, Boots Striding and Springing, *Golem Bane Scarab, *Swarm Bane Clasp, Swordmaster's Flair: Blue Scarf, Wand of cure light (x2), Wand of shield, Plume of panache (x?), Handy haversack, *Potion of heroism (splurge on this!!) +1 inspired Rapier (keen?), Mithril chainshirt, *Cloak of resist (second magic item I bought after the wand of cure), headband of vast int, Belt of incredible dex, and finally Shield: fortification. There is a lot there which adds to the str worries (I only went 10...kinda regretting it now) Any questions on the item or reasoning let me know.

For extracts to look at: ant haul, heightened awareness, shield, comprehend language and cure...the higher you go the more important heightened awareness is imo. At level 2 barkskin and **alchemical allocation


Ant haul is a extract (or whatever it is called) basically a spell you can prepare that lastshe 2 hours per level. A potion would be 50g for two hours.


Mw backpack, along with always prepared ant haul... handy haversack asap. Do not assume you can bring a pack animal. Midst times you won't be able to. Keep you load light, those penalties will kill you


Left field idea bard had the arrowsong. minstrel you get a ton of skills, ability to buff and cmon you get gravity bow. Haven't planned it out but it seems like a interesting idea


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Didn't consider your response to be that impolite..I've known similar people like you and as your previous response shows I was dead on. Sadly you want advice but really only want it to a certain point and when the vast majority point out that your logic is flawed you will use the sacred roll-player vs role-player argument or just say "maybe this isnt the game for me." As a courtesy realize how much time and thought others have put into the responses to explain their logic. Your opening post specifically states you are new to pathfinder...hence everyone is explaining their experience in pathfinder and the very mechanics of the class. (since you are newer to rules) I think all the responses have been spent explaining it to you, at this point you are in a lock-down mode and there is no point to argue. I'm amazed that as a "role-player" you are locking your character down so much. Personally I have a concept pick the class to match and then play...after a session or two I realize the concept isnt matching the mechanics..luckily the developers realized the same thing. Keep your mind open is the big thing, otherwise you will be trying to force your concept to mechanics and wont be happy.

Now I've read your background multiple times mechanically that isnt your character. First and foremost you grew up in "Akorians Emporium of All Things Magical." you were surrounded by magical things at all times..it was your parent's lively hood...and you took skill focus: perception!? Seriously I understand from a power gaming perspective perception is king.. but that should be use magic devices hand down. With no interest in boys/girls or just flat out not realizing...that places cha down below average so 7-9. To note also for the fencing lessons..the core class includes the proficiency...taking finesse will seal the deal... no reason to take swashbuckler based on the story..unless you actually are putting a focus on the fencing in which case a master would just barely notice you at a 14 dex.

Now all these numbers really do mean something besides mechanics. Remember that 99.9% of people will have stats ranging from 10-11..that is the normal. Einstein would have had maybe a 18 int and he is considered to be by most one of the most brilliant minds of the 20th century...your character may be smart but is she of Einstein's level... A 14-15 would put you as very bright..not the wizard's int able to manipulate reality or physics-type smart.


Sigh ok I'm done with the thread. As mentioned previously IF the swashbuckler wasn't a priority then I would skip it. (Go back up and look) actually look at the facts of my post they are not assumptions. It is advice I've learned while playing (hence advice forum) so last bit of advice is go out and play,you can change everything until 2,then come back and reread this thread.


Wow you would actually gain a lot...seriously you tanked str!? First and foremost you are NOT a wizard. You need the armor and gear... at 7 str using just a chain shirt and a rapier you are at a med load giving you a max dex of 3 and another 3 armor check penalty...you will hit heavy as soon as you add gear meaning a max dex of 1 and -6 acp you cannot afford to tank str.

Sorry that shocked me. As mentioned previously a 20 int suffers diminished returns and my whole speech on hybrid classes goes into it. So here is a shocker: Bring int down to 15 (no bonus to it) yeah yeah shock and awe...you need a 16 to get all the major benefits from it (aka extracts) now we have 10 points which is first bringing str to 11..yeah it costs 5 points but you need to be able to hold your things...next we bring your wis to 12 (ill explain in a min) get con to 13 and add your bonus +1 to dex bringing it up to 17 Honestly if i could bring cha down to a 9 I would make str 10 and con 12 and bring dex to 18.

Now to add reasoning to this: Dex is actually your main att...what do you gain from it? Initiative, armor, bonus to hit, damage, attacks of opp from combat reflexes and a ref bonus. You need to carry gear and it adds up way too quick to ignore it. Con for hp fort and when you get to -hp it keeps you alive. Wis 12 will is really important but lets face it what is more important is having it up to 12 so when you lose two from the dex mutagen (gaining another 2 to hit/damage and +4 ac)

You are gaining way more than losing dropping int that is why everyone is saying you should move it down


Character is not solid until level 2. They give you a chance to make changes if you see it isn't working


Last add on before work so you don't think it would be just a combat character..I wouldn't worry about buffing you would be bringing a lot more to the table.. I would put skill focus in umd,the ability to use any magic item is impressive on top of that I've seen parties with no healer or ability to use a wand of cure. Disable device is very uncommon,last game I was in the gm was about to skip that roll until I let him know I could disable said trap. Being the face and all the knowledge of things you know. That is where the investigator excells


If you are dead set on the 20 int I would skip out on the level of swashbuckler...just pick up finesse at level 1 and worry about leveling the investigator up. The swashbuckler adds more combat to you, if it isnt a priority there is no reason to go there. Stats I would prioritize dex and then int...str I would keep at 10 and wis/con at least 12 in the front line a d8 isnt gonna cut it...I have a archer with a 10 con and I get all runny when someone gets close to me. Basic feats for swordplay(if you are going swashbuckler dip) I would take fencing grace (so now dex is to hit and damage) and then combat reflexes (so you can do multiple riposte in a round) Mutagen (at 3)would be a very solid talent to pick up along with quick study (at 5) after that you could move towards rounding out the character..like at 5 take the extra talent feat for infusion. The investigator has a long start up but what is nice is you can see them progress each level


The thing you need to keep in mind is you are planning a jack of all trade..or a hybrid. As such you should look at most hybrids there is a reason most do not have spells past level 6... you need to have the ability to cast the spells but also keep up your fighting ability. That said a 20 int is very contrary and ineffective to the build...most points have gone into int and you really are getting nothing from it. You should really spread the stats out. Although really you could play a wizard with that...you would have all your points.

As mentioned the bard is the same idea...being a buffer you dont have to worry about the opponents making a save...a 13/14 is very plausible by 10th level the bard would get +5 to knowledge and you could take 10... you would be a decent face and nobody beats the bard for buffing. Granted you need to perform.

Don't get me wrong, I love the investigator, spent probably too much time thinking about it. But really I wouldn't try to buff everyone you just dont have enough resources (maybe at later levels) Covers all your bases but your support would be in killing things quick(-ish)


I know there are tiers, never bothered to learn them. Your preference towards buffing above all else is where the bard comes from. Heck they even get a rapier to boot. Spells like haste and good hope..added to inspire makes you a really good buffer. Everyone benefits.. the investigator can do that but only one person will get the benefit per spell..so it is 1 vs your level in targets. We realize you don't want to play a bard but we are just saying "you want a apple This is a apple" classes are like people what defines it is the character. You can play a bard with no skill in instrument nor a singing voice and still be effective. Heck some archetypes don't even need that


I suck at the quotes and such but you said "If it's impossible to play a dedicated social char, with buffing as her major contribution to the fight. And decent at the rapier to kill of the mooks once buffing is done... If that's impossible please just say so that I can delete my PFS account." THAT is a bard.
Now my previous suggestions were mainly about where I was going by no means was it directing you to go in that direction (mainly it was "here is some cool things I found" take it or leave it) That said I agree with Drahliana...play a bard that is what you want...dont let the singing or playing get in your way go oratory and tell a tale or a chant. A "buffer" investigator is possible and they can give out some decent buffs...all like 2-3 of them and you really need to hope you gave the right potion to the right person at the right time. Like I mentioned previously some of the most powerful buffing spells effect the whole party...you are still just effecting one person. A bard starts off at level one giving the whole party +1 hit and damage, that is your bread and butter...it helps everyone and yourself. With a decent cha and the skill points a bard is a definite face in the party.

Online would be a good place to play, you can go to the store but you might run into people like me. Old farts with a wife and baby that is out just for the 4 hours set aside to get my fix in. Don't get me wrong I'm all for RP but I wont sit there for 30 mins to talk some goblins out of robbing us. (Not saying that is your style but I've seen it...and 5 mins later all the goblins are dead when I said fudge it) PFS is a mixed bag as was previously mentioned some lean towards combat/fluff and others are a nice mix. Sorry if this was rushed need to go back to work vaca is over


At first i was gonna say how much more expensive bracers of armor were compared to normal armor...but that has changed (maybe I'm thinking 3.5) I still find it to be a attempt at forcing a square through a circular hole. Fact is you would still want many shot and you cannot get it without point blank or rapid shot...which doesnt work with the monk's flurry. Your Ac would still be a tad lower you also wouldnt be able to use a buckler AND you would have to wait one more lvl to get to the awesome abilities. Lets face it the inquisitor might have one less shot to the monk but the arrows will hit a heck of a lot harder...and he would be more accurate


Friendly fire maneuvers along with solo tactics negate that issue at level 3...of course that requires point blank and precise.

Honestly the best and easiest thing to do is just go human...this is one of those builds that it just makes more sense you really want the 3 feats by level 3...i remember just firing the one arrow until level 3...it sucked but all of a sudden the group was looking at me saying HOW much damage?? Really at this point i would go a Sanctified slayer over the zen archer any day You will a lot harder and more reliably..and lose maybe one arrow..but then i went feather domain and now have a large cat pouncing on everything..which i give my divine favor to for 5 rounds...gm got really upset when i cast invisibility purge on myself and the cat :)

Anywho, betryer a good spell to keep ready is honeyed tongue..rolling diplomacy twice is very nice

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