I am putting together a Magus/Rogue BBEG for my group, and I came across something I need community input on.
As we all know, Magus can deliver touch spells through their weapon, no problem. But then I came across this:
Surprise Spells:
At 10th level, an arcane trickster can add her sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, if the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that deal hit point damage, and the additional damage is of the same type as the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage.
So my question is this: If a Magus/Arcane Trickster lands a sneak attack on a flat-footed target, then does that mean they do the sneak attack damage on the attack and does sneak attack damage again on the channeled spell?
So a Rogue 3 / Magus 4 / AT 10 would sneak attack for +7D6 and then spellstrike shocking grasp for another +7d6?
That seems incredibly powerful to me, but RAW that's what I take it to mean; does anyone know if this has been errata'd or anything?
Since Paladins and Barbarians kept coming up in the 'Strongest Martial Class' discussion, it got me thinking about how to combine the two and see if it's possible to make the strongest possible martial class.
And yes, it *is* possible to play a Paladin/Barbarian: The third tier universal mythic ability 'Beyond Morality' it's *theoretically* possible to have a Paladin/Barbarian single character build. Or combine with Druid, Monk, Barbarian/Anti-Paladin, or anything else as long as it's not a class variant:
Beyond Morality (Ex):
"You have no alignment. You can become a member of any class, even one with an alignment requirement, and can never lose your membership because of a change in alignment. If you violate the code of ethics of any of your classes, you might still lose access to certain features of such classes, subject to GM discretion. Attempts to detect your alignment don't return any results. If a class restricts you from casting spells with an alignment descriptor, you can cast such spells without restrictions or repercussions. If you're the target of a spell or effect that is based on alignment, you're treated as the most favorable alignment when determining the spell's effect on you. Any effects that alter alignment have no effect on you. If you lose this effect, you revert to your previous alignment."
I'm working on the build, but I figured I'd put it out to the community first since I'm far from an expert on either class. Is it even worth doing? Can a Paladin / Barbarian / something else top it's single class cousins?
Just be sure to include at least 3 mythic tiers in your build, which can realistically be done by about level 10 or so.
STR: 8
Dex: 18 (20)
Con: 10
Int: 15 (16) (Boosted every to 16 at level 4, 2 points dex/ cha capping at 20)
Wis: 10
Cha: 18 (20) Also possible as 18 INT/CHA.
*Note, these are the levels at which the class grants these feats, not necessarily the character level at which they are received. This also leaves 8 feats unselected, so the build is highly customizable.
(1) Improved Initiative (Go first and conquer!)
(1) Weapon Focus: Scimitar (Kensai Bonus)
(1) Dervish Dance (Dervish of Dance Bonus)
(1) Weapon Finesse (Swashbuckler Finesse Bonus)
(3) Arcane Accuracy Arcana
(4) Swashbuckler Bonus Feat
(5) Improved Critical (Swashbuckler Weapon Training Bonus)
(5) Magus Bonus Feat
(5) Arcane Strike
(6) Spell Shield Arcana
(7) Intensify Spell
(8) Swashbuckler Bonus Feat
(9) Power Attack (if Str over 13)
(11)
(13)
(15)
(17)
(19)
At level 20:
BAB: +17/+12/+7/+2 + 1 extra attack (Haste) + Spellstrike (1 extra attack +10d6 Intensified Shocking Grasp). All attacks Crit on 15-20.
Fort +9 Ref +20 Will +11
Casting as a Level 11 Magus / Level 2 Bard (Esoteric Training from Inner Sea Magic)
AC: +5 Dex / +5 Canny Defense / +3 Nimble / + Armor / + Buckler
Initiative +16: +5 Dex / +3 Iaijutsu / +2 Swashbuckler Initiative / +2 Reactionary Trait / +4 Improved Initiative
Kensai abilities: Perfect Strike (Max damage) / Fighter Training (lvl 5) / Iaijutsu (Int to initiative, etc)
This build would play quite differently pending what order the levels were taken in (but Bard 1 definitely needs to be first) as well as feat and item selections. But I think it will have the variety and combat capability to hang in there with any other melee characters. And the choice of how to spend arcane pool and panache points will keep play interesting and engaging...not to mention if this character went Mythic!
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Greetings all,
I have question about Improved Natural Attack and how it stacks with other size affecting things. One of my players is running a Bloodrager for the playtest with the Abyssal Bloodline, which gives him claws that do 1d8 at level 7. He has Aspect of the Gorilla, Demonic Bulk (essentially enlarge person) and a party druid who can cast Strong Jaw on him. The debate is how those effects interact.
Demonic Bulk expressly makes you larger, Strong Jaw and Aspect of the Gorilla do not (although the flavor text says your arms get longer, you do not increase a size category). Pending how you look at this, it can get out of hand quickly.
The issue is whether or not these effects move you along the Improved Natural Attack damage progression, or the Strong Jaw damage progression:
He sees it like:
Improved Natural Attack
Attacks made by one of this creature's natural attacks leave vicious wounds.
Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.
So that would mean he is attacking at level 8 at
1d8/1d8(start) -> 2d6/2d6(improved) ->3d6(Deamon bulk)->4d6/4d6(Gorilla aspect)->(strong jaw over the chart so double) 8d6/8d6-> 16d6/16d6
Whereas, I see it like:
Looking at it, it seems to me that it comes down to this
I'm *thinking* Improved Natural Attack is a fixed bonus. X monster picks up the feat, improves one step. If it happened to be large, or gargantuan at the time, it goes up. No problem.
The feat takes something made out of wood and makes it stone...seems legit.
However, if you start growing and stacking things on *top* of that, you don't follow the INA progression, you follow the spell/effect's progression. Strong Jaw expressly says this spell makes these attacks work like this, so that would override INA in my mind.
That, and doing 16d6/16d6 EVER, much less at level 8 is flatly stupid. A mythic red dragon doesn't hit that hard!
Therefore:
Claw: 1d8 Base > Demonic Bulk 2d6 > Gorilla 2d8 > Strong Jaw 4d8
Bite: 1d4 Base > Demonic Bulk 1d6 > Strong Jaw 2d6
And curve ball: Does Aspect of Gorilla even stack with Improved Natural Attack?
Gorilla: Your arms become long, flexible, and strong like those of a great ape. Your unarmed damage die type increases by one step, and you gain a +4 competence bonus on combat maneuver checks when making the grapple or reposition combat maneuver.
I appreciate your thought, or even if you can direct me towards this has been officially addressed before, thanks!
In the end, I feel like players who want to do something besides start over again at level 1 at the end of an AP have very few options. Pathfinder has several sagas, but no epics.
And that seems strange to me, especially considering APs like Crimson Throne, Jade Regent and Shattered Star are all written assuming a familiarity with the events of RotRL with no possibility of having the same characters play in each!
I see one of two potential solutions, or a combination of the two:
Interweaving APs into a single 'supercampaign' that feels appropriately massive to retire afterwards:
I'm just putting the idea out here for now, since it would take some more thought, but for instance, play all of these on the slow XP track:
Play RotRL through the end of Thistletop.
Detour to Jade Regent to put Ameiko on the throne, and possibly finish it (I'm not familiar with the AP).
Get called back to RotRL because someone is framing the PCs for murder...go through the end of chapter 2 and finish with Xanesha.
Detour to Crimson Throne in pursuit of 'Vorel's Legacy' and possibly finish it.
Come back to RotRL and finish it.
Do all of Shattered Star.
And if the players aren't exhausted, do Wrath of the Righteous so they can retire as gods. Of course, even on the slow XP track this will require adjusting the encounters up a bit, which means there is no escaping...
A generic set of rules for bumping the difficulties of encounters in the APs, since the stories and content are still interesting and deserve to be experienced:
For instance, in my current group I'm running RotRL parallel with Wrath.
I am dropping some of the filler encounters and buffing the other ones by raising the AC, hitpoints, and offensive capabilities of the mobs, as well as generally emphasizing the narrative elements over straight combat. Another useful trick is to take the 'unique monsters' from the SRD or monsters of the appropriate CR level and use their stats. So I may describe the creature as a Goblin attacking Sandpoint, but I'm using the stats for a CR 9 Minotaur or Troll. Liberally sprinkling in some mythic template monsters and giving 'bosses' like Karzoug full mythic tiers will also help to raise the stakes in the major encounters.
I figure if either or both of these issues can be resolved, then we'll have near infinite options for campaigns or characters to last as long as we wish. Hopefully we can get this sorted out, or at least a few workable options.
I have created what I hope is a pretty thorough recreation of a Spartan warrior adapted to a fantasy setting. My goal was to approximate their legendary combat prowess both as individuals, and especially as a fighting unit. My goal was to establish them as elite, but highly specialized, arguably overly specialized soldiers.
The framework I used was the Phalanx Warrior fighter archetype. I removed several bonus feats, added the 'sword and shield' Ranger fighting style and bonus teamwork feats, to simulate a real Spartan phalanx.
By far the most 'controversial' thing I've done is added very limited spell casting, like a Paladin or Ranger with a specific Spartan spell list. They only get self-targeted buff spells or spells that would increase their legendary self-sufficiency.
I apologize in advance for any formatting snafus, and I appreciate your feedback. I copy/pasted from the D20SRD and moved a lot of things around, so I also apologize for the inevitably broken links. I'll clean it all up once I get it somewhat finalized.
I know only 2 parts of this AP have been published, but do any of you running it think it's possible to run in parallel with Rise of the Runelords? I love the idea of finishing at level 20 with 10 mythic tiers, but my RotRL game is too far along to scrap and start over.
The setting is different, but is it diametrically opposed?
I'm making a Cleric/Wiz/MT NPC for my melee-heavy 10-person Rise of the Rune Lords campaign. I'm houseruling to compensate for some of the more terrible bits of MT, but I'm hung up on what feats to choose.
I'm leaving out the full build but here's a little background:
*It's for sure going to be Cleric/Wizard/MT; not Sorcerer, Oracle, or Witch
*Healing/support is what they need, so that's what I'm focusing on.
*They are already facerolling alot of encounters because of their action economy, so I'm not interested in a blasting or summoning focused build...the last thing I need is more bodies to contend with. I've banned Leadership for the same reason.
*The NPC will be a Foresight Wizard with the Luck and Healing Domains.
-Acting first is key, so I'm stacking initiative bonuses.
*I'm the DM so I'll allow 3.5 feats in a pinch, but I'd rather not since I don't really want the players using them, either.
*I'll be using Eclectic Training and Magical Knack to make up the lost caster levels.
*I am not allowing the Wizard bonus feats beyond Scribe Scroll.
This is sort of a mishmash of healing and divination focused builds I've seen floating around:
1 Improved Initiative
3 Reach Spell
4 Scribe Scroll (Bonus as first Wiz level)
5 Selective Channeling
7 Spell Penetration
9 Craft Rod
11 Empower Spell
13 Quicken Spell
15 True Name (It's a summons...but Planetar Pet FTW)
17 Greater Spell Penetration
19 Spell Perfection (If 3 metamagic feats)
Ultimately I guess I'm trying to optimize something that is innately non-optimal...so I'll take all the help I can get, thanks!
I've been posting elsewhere about how to challenge a *big* group of players in my 12 person Rise of the Rune Lords campaign and I have another question: How do you all use NPCs in your players groups?
Even though I'm playing with a football team's worth of characters, most of them are newbies and the party is massively lacking in healing and magic. So initially I dropped my highly-optimized battle Cleric in as their NPC, but she comes and goes as the narrative requires, kind of like Batman in the Justice League. However, now I'm thinking about switching her over to a Mystic Theurge or even a gestalt character to fill that magic gap and reducing her combat superiority.
Long story short, I want to help them without enabling recklessness, laziness, or having the NPC win the fight for them. How do you all handle such things? Do you have players control NPCs in combat, similar to the leadership feat, or do you play them to the fullest?
I'm running Rise of the Rune Lords with a group of (wait for it) 12-14 players!!! It's all people I work with, most of which who've never gamed before, but so far they are loving it.
Currently they are finishing up the Catacombs of Wrath, but I'm already looking ahead to ways to challenge them. I'd like to insert a BBEG to be their recurring foil. I'm thinking of a few possibilities, definitely with a dragon rider-esque theme:
A gestalt character (is that weird with non-gestalt players?)
An Eldritch Godling min/maxed all to hell.
An unmodified Planar Shepherd from 3.5 (OP, but so are they, and it helps offset my biggest challenge which is player action economy).
An enemy with mythic tiers, when the player don't.
An entire rival party made up of some combination of the above.
Or some combination of all of the above.
TL;DR version: How do I challenge a football team's worth of rookie players doing Rise of the Rune Lords?
I apologize if this has been asked elsewhere, but I can't seem to locate it: Does the Mystic Past Life ability work for multiple classes? RAW it would seem to me that it does.
d20pfsrd wrote:
Mystic Past Life: You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class's key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on). The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you're adding them to. For example, you could add divine power to your druid class spell list, but not to your wizard class spell list because divine power is a divine spell. These spells do not have to be spells you can cast as a 1st-level character. The number of spells granted by this ability is set at 1st level. Changes to your ability score do not change the number of spells gained.
It says all this happens at level 1; so it seems to me a Samsaran Wizard/Cleric would get to add both Divine and Arcane spells, based on their lvl 1 stats, probably at character creation. I see a lot of debate as to whether or not you can only take spells from 1 other class or multiples; has this ability been officially errata'd anywhere?
tl;dr version up front: My question is, can a cleric realistically stay on the front lines both taking, and giving damage at the high levels (lvl 12+)?
Longer version:
I am playing in a group with 2 summoners, a rogue, and an on again, off again ranger. That means I'm on the hook to be tank and healer, and my preferred play style is damage dealer. If I had my way I'd be playing a Magus or Fighter/Wiz/EK, but I am trying to put the needs of the group ahead of my own preferences, and trying to broaded my horizons at the same time. I didn't want a Paladin because I am the only healer, and I don't want to be an Oracle because I want lvl 9 casting, and I think the tactics/growth cleric domain powers exceed the battle mysteries.
So, I settled on pure Cleric moving into Grey Gardner. Specifically Cleric 9 / GG 10 / Cleric 1, with an emphasis on two weapon fighting so that I can keep my shield equipped and maybe not die. We are only 3 levels in, but so far she has been WRECKING chit, ending most encounters nearly single-handedly. I think TWF with double bane and sneak attack will keep her doing pretty sick damage indefinitely, but I'm not too sure she will be able to live through the counter offensive.
My character concept is she is a Rorschach like character who through her adventures and the Mythic rules will become the new Goddess of Justice. And maybe war. ;)
We rolled 6 times and I got pretty dang lucky. I chose an Oread because of the +2 str/wis, and I ended up with:
18 Str
12 INT
16 Con
15 Chr
17 Dex
20 Wis
Oread: Fertile Soil / Granite Skin
+1 Caster Level to Plant Domain Spells / +1 Natural AC
Spirit of the Midnight Sun (Homebrew deity)-Falcata as it's chosen weapon
War (Tactician) / Plant (Growth) Domains
-War gives initiative boost, and infinite combat feats at lvl 8.
-Growth lets me hulk out and grow essentially on command.
Here are my projected feats and BAB:
I am currently level 3, and here is my planned feat progression:
Feats
1 Two-Weapon Fighting
3 Improved Shield Bash
5 Power Attack
7 Combat Reflexes
9 Improved 2-Weapon Fighting
11 Shield Slam
13 Double Bane
13 GG Bonus – Gang Up
15 Hold for Shield Master at 16 (?)
15 GG Bonus – Vital Strike
17 Greater 2-weapon Fighting
17 GG Bonus – Dasterdly Finish
19 Improved Vital Strike
And finally, this is my projected BAB (not counting TWF attacks)
BAB
1 0
2 +1
3 +2
4 +3
5 +3
6 +4
7 +5
8 +6/+1
9 +6/+1
10 +6/+1 GG
11 +7/+2
12 +8/+3
13 +9/+4
14 +9/+4
15 +10/+5
16 +11/+6/+1
17 +12/+7/+2
18 +12/+7/+2
19 +13/+8/+3
20 +14/+9/+4 (Cleric)
If you read (or even skimmed) all this, I salute you, and welcome your advice.
I am playing a Cleric with the Crusader Archetype and the Animal Domain with the Feather sub-domain.
Historically I always played Mages, or Fighter/Mages, but this particular party had both need of a healer and a tank, so I went with straight Cleric.
I have set her up as a Sword & Board combat type, who is currently running rings around everyone else in the party damage wise (2 summoners, a ranger and a rogue), and going forward I'd like to move into mounted combat.
I intend to pick a Tiger as my animal companion at 4th level, who'll be big enough to ride at 7th. I don't expect to beat them all over the long term, I'd just like to remain combat viable (and the idea sounds neat).
My question is this:
What is the best class to dip into for mounted combat without COMPLETELY nerfing my Cleric casting ability?
Since I am on the hook to be main healer I can't really afford to go more than 1-2 levels into another class even though I have Magical Knack, unless there is a HUGE payoff. Also I intend to keep fighting with my Falcata and shield while mounted, but I'm open to change if need be.
I was thinking Barbarian, but I don't think I can go deep enough to earn the mounted rage abilities. Rangers or Cavalier might work, or I can always wait for Leadership and take a Sythesist Summoner, right? ;)
In case you need to know, my stats as a lvl 2 Oread Cleric are:
18 Str
12 INT
16 Con
15 Chr
15 Dex
20 Wis
I worship a unique Deity (The Midnight Sun)which gave me the domain and exotic weapon proficiency.
My (current) planned feat progression is:
FEATS
1 Two-Weapon Fighting
1 Crusader Bonus: Improved Shield Bash
3 Boon Companion (at 4 when the Companion arrives)
5 Power Attack
6 Crusader bonus (?)
7 Mounted Combat (when the Tiger will be big enough to ride)
9 Leadership
Thank you all, I appreciate any pointers you can give.
