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Honestly on the unfun realm I've had to say a lot of creatures with the animal type often fall into this category for me since in a lot of published materials they feel more like they are treated as bags of walking hp and set in these tiny fight rooms rather than actually presented as animals. In most cases I get something like a deinoychus, crocodile, or say a bison and it's treated like a dungeon roadblock stuck in the middle of a small space and not presented with either a way to slip around and escape fights like an animal naturally would or with special abilities that might make the fight feel more interesting than dealing with a monster with a built in knife.
It kind of echos some of the sentiments Ashiel mentioned where the fights can just often feel uninteresting or uninspired which is a shame considering how terrifying real encounters with things like lions can be and with all the actual information we have on them and many other creatures these fights should be just as terrifying if not more so. Also it gives a lot of room to really expand on some questions like how do lions, crocs, and wolves fit into worlds where dragons, manticores, and pegasi also fight with them for ecological niches or hell what about things like undead or even giants and aberrations that could wander their worlds?
Wow first impression is that there is WAY more content than I originally expected. I was ready for just a set of summon undead spells and some explanations, what I've got is a whole new summoner alt revolving around undead, like 4 new archetypes, and A LOT of new spells including one that is essentially summon zombie horde. Suffice it to say I'm already excited for this read. Will have to post a review for this and the also excellent cavalier orders book.
Let me tell you about crocs. I was playing through one of the pfs modules and we had to cross a river that apparently had one of these little bastards in it and a trap across the only good path across while his ranged druid parked it on the other side of the river and just waited for us. And unfortunately for yours truly I was the main tank as the slayer and had to test the path. By the end of round 1 I had a damn bear trap on one leg, a croc on the other, and an arrow in my leg. It was like a scene from Ace Ventura. Damn crocs hurt.
Anastasius Brightstar wrote:
Sorry to say if he doesn't like reading a lot then this might not be the game for him lol. Pathfinder and for that matter most tabletops require a good amount of reading even for some of the most basic classes and not wanting to do even basic reading of your spells is kind of breaking the covenant you make when you join the vast majority of groups. If your boy wants to continue playing his magus your GM probably needs to talk to him and make it clear that READING THE BOOK is going to be pretty essential for him to continue to play without him becoming a burden to the rest of the party. Maybe offer him the chance to respec into something like a fighter which might have less reading requirement or system savvy?
Another interesting option is to embrace him as a part time player. Ask him if he's really that interested in being a dedicated player (making every session, learning his character, etc.) or if he's looking to just try the game from time to time or just needs a more flexible schedule. If the latter let him be part time. Put his character on some secondary mission off screen that separates him from the party like doing missions for the crusades while your team handles the story proper. From there you guys are more open to do your own thing, maybe even search out a player who is more dedicated to fill in as a more permanent member.
Sorry if some of this has already been suggested but if his problem is being overwhelmed at the sheets then I'd have to suggest talking to him a lot and figuring out what he easily understands and what he needs help with. I know some strategies that work for some people completely fail for others. I know for me Perram's spellbook is really helpful for spell tracking. Have him print his spell book and some copies of spells he preps multiple times in a day and make a deck and then lay his preps on the table when he starts then when he uses them flip them over or something to show they are used. Next I would say dial down dice are really helpful in my experience to keep track of my modular numbers and are usually pretty easy to get a hold of. You can get them from buying magic fat packs and if you have magic: the gathering players floating around you probably have a few near the table.
After that the other big thing I can say is that the magus itself is not exactly the easiest class to play first time nor WotR especially once he has to start worrying about mythic tiers and all that they entail. The former he's likely going to have to just sit down and work on away from the table so that he starts getting the mechanics down but the latter can be a serious problem. If mythic powers become something he has a real difficulty grasping then you might have to let him go since they aren't going to be getting any less complicated.
I would put it somewhere near the Elven kingdom of Kyonin. They already have that distance and aloofness of the elves and a culture that isn't really trusting of most outsiders who aren't elves including Half-elves. Maybe have him grow up as a woodsman as an expression of his elven connection to nature and the best way to feel close to his elven roots even though he can't truly be a part of them like the full elves he lives with can.
Probably not. You probably have to use it improvised. It's not really meant to be used in anyway except as a chainsaw, which it's not doing if it's out of power.
Yeah that's my current worry since without power I think that the teeth and chain will just spin on contact with a target without any power to help create resistance in the opposite direction.
The real thing I want to know though is if there has been any rulings one way or another on this that says what happens?
Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Well, there's always improvised weapons. I think last time it came up I suggested a lighter club (as most of the weight is in the handle) or a greatclub that deals you piercing damage (if you hold it by the blade to beat people with the motor).
Well I figured it would work as an improvised weapon. My bigger issue is if I have Exotic Weapon Proficiency (chainsaw) and my chainsaw has suddenly run out of juice, is it still able to do some type of damage without being an improvised weapon, similar to how a ripsaw glaive works without having to be revved up?
Flaming Crab Games wrote:
Sweet that's exactly what I thought it did but wanted to make sure that was the intent before I went forward with building one.
That is now incredibly terrifying and awesome.
Exactly this and it is here where the main problem a lot of people have about building nonbow characters begins and continues. It is when my fantasy of being a kick ass crossbowmen is apparently punished because it doesn't align with pathfinder's fantasy expectations. It has been rather annoying for a very long time to have a large swath of options to choose from ranged wise but then find out that many of them are actually more a punishment for not choosing the bow.
Lol I love these orders guys excellent work! The order of the claymore (also known as the Liam Neeson order) is so badass it hurts, the 2 new rose factions are the s*!# (I love the white rose mechanics, so good thematically and for really tanking a game), the luck order is great, and the freakin mercenaries are mean as hell. Ohh also the order of the road is really on point and I love that the auroch companion feat is still good even if you play in games like mine that have more open mount lists for cavaliers.
Now one question though, is the extra attack that scorpion order cavaliers get as a swift action after tripping supposed to treat as two-weapon fighting if they use a different weapon or not?
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
There are, in fact, multiple (and less baroque) ways for characters to get familiars.
You talking right now or with this book? Because as it stands I don't really know of another way to get one as a sorc without eldritch heritage or picking up some class levels in another class.
I echo a lot of Scythia's sentiment where for the vast majority of classes I don't really try to assign them too much to any distinct social position and at most generalize an answer to help my PCs get a feel for how they all fit in the world we play in. Remember for the most part the people of the world you're running really don't see character classes. A holy man of a god could be as much a bard or even an expert as they could be a cleric.
About the one place I kind of fiddle with this is with arcane casters in that societies that spend a lot of time trying to distinguish the who and how of how they gain access to arcane magic. But beyond that I try not to play hard and fast to any one cultural option in my game worlds.
Yes but as a Rakshasa bloodline sorcerer I cannot qualify for a familiar without also taking eldritch heritage (arcane), skill focus (spellcraft), and then Improved Familiar.
From the sounds of it though we are getting a feat that lets sorc's supersede that very baroque chain and just get a familiar that matches their bloodline, a fact that if true makes me immensely happy.
I was thinking of more suggestions and ideas should we not have preexisting ones.
Like for example
The Jol Greenskin brigade: activated over a decade ago during Opir 8 fingers rule, the Greenskin brigade is a military outfit designed to incorporate the many Orcish orphans and refugees fleeing or left over from conflicts within the Kodar mountains into a fighting force that is both effective in defending Jol's borders against further incursions from the hills while simultaneously galvanizing these Orcish refugees into a productive force away from the rest of Jol's population. Orcs who are brought to the unit are guaranteed a full pardon from any past transgressions, food and shelter, and citizenship after 12-20 years of service. Often this work is difficult and many do not make it but amongst the brigade all are equal.
Not exactly the most noble example but it does help build on the idea of how various factions might deal with various monstrous races inside their border beyond just trying to kill them and with Opir's already tenous rule coupled with the giant problem his region has I could see him deputizing orcs into a "loyal" viking force if he thought it would help show off his might and they gave him the proper platitudes.
So are we actually going to design some organizations for Golarion or is this mean to be more of an abstract discussion of what might be needed to raise the children of these various and often evil aligned races?
If the former I have a few I just don't want to get off track of the general discussion going on here.
So I'm working on some prestige awards for a faction based around the plains indians of the western united states.
Currently I'm working on a title award called Brave. It's a title with the prerequisites of 10 Fame and 3 Prestige and will start to segway into some of the larger titles including Warchief, Grand chief, and a few other options I'm still working on.
The problem is that I cannot think of a good boon for the actual boon. I want something that feels like it goes with the brave theme but is a bit more interesting than just gaining a new class skill. So does anyone have any good ideas?
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Okay so for the vast majority of instances the only time one can gain CP or rank up is during a milestone. All other times it's just game as usual unless otherwise GM stated.
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Lord! That's way more than I thought you could pull per milestone! I actually use the caravan system in my homebrew and custom build hirable NPCs for them alongside the heavyweight ones and they've started to befriend them as well! I thought it was just one and considering the number of milestones you got (around 5-10) by the end of it you would have all of them amongst the party. This does not make incorporating this now that the game has been going for almost a year much easier.
k next question:
So with CP that can be earned at any time that I as GM deign that they have done something to help further their relationship with an NPC rather than just at milestones correct?
With gifts are those meant to be something that can only be used to rank up or is that mechanic also applicable to earning CP?
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
So that means that if the PC sorcerer had potential rank ups with all 5 NPCs in that potential period he can take a shot at ranking up with all of them correct?
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Does that mean you can only attempt 1 rank up or CP increase per period?
For example during that period between frog princesses and flamingo knight the PC Sorcerer can only gain CP with one NPC or rank up and not say further his relationship with like 3 NPCs?
Aaron Bitman wrote:
Thank you and much obliged. Will be using this the next time I have to roll out some weapons.
Like for me, the biggest thing I'm picturing is getting chased down that classic hall of mounted armors, stopping, and turning to my party and going, "I got this" and then start animating these suites of armor and sending them charging at the guards all the while blood dripping from his nose as he starts animating a small army.
Ohh or ending up in a kitchen and animating a swarm of butcher knives to come flying at the bandits who chased me in there.
Or s#*+, being on a battlefield and animating a broken trebutchet to stand up and start smacking orcs around with its giant catapult arm while trundling along on some broken tension wheels.
I get that but I don't think anyone's saying that anymore than they are saying it's a problem with the normal use of it. Hell if I'm geomancing in a silver shop I could just as easily pull that off or hell anywhere since the shape of my sparked creation is really left to, the kineticist. As for the sentience it is a small piece of the creators consciousness rather than a new mind coming into existence so it's probably going to have more in line with it's parent mind then some new person. But if someone wants to have an animated creation with the mind of a matronly maid there is nothing stopping them from pulling that off with any of the other kineticists either though I don't know how helpful that will be in say, wasting some bandits lol.
Milo v3 wrote:
This is pretty close to what I was envisioning. Like instead of them imbuing their element with a spark of their being a telekinetic is wrapping telekinetic force around an object and directing it to attack like a puppet. My telekinetic imbues his will upon the empty chair next to him and has it assault his captors, swinging and smashing at them with its wooden legs and arms with reckless abandon or filling a standing suite of armor with his drawn aether and sending it charging at bad guys.
I mean in my mind spark of life already basically lets a user make a fighting doll out of whatever element they are attuned to. The walking elemental ball is mindless and can only act if the kineticist spends a move action directing it to act. If that's the case then it makes a lot of sense for my telekinetic to be able to wrap my aethiric will about an object and cause it to shamble after someone like an animated creature. I mean if a geomancer can make a hunk of wall grow arms and amble after a dude why not let me use a suit of armor like a hollow action figure I move with my telekinetics?
Sort of. Assuming that a unit of stores (which holds 10 provisions, 1 of which can feed a horse) is at least 50 lbs we are talking about on average about 350 lbs of perishables you would have to be checking daily. On top of that it's not permanent so if you have clean food in a contaminated environment you still run the risk of contamination even after casting. Part of why they actually list it in the caravan rules as giving you a bonus to fighting off contamination rather than actually solving it whole sale.
I'm not saying it's not a good idea, just saying it comes with as many other problems as it helps prevent.
Sort of. Purify food and drink only really helps if you know what food is actually contaminated before you consume it (which is not as easy as it sounds for a low to mid level party and NPC classed npcs) and if you have diseases that can't survive off of food. If we are talking a midevil setting you can have things that get caught simply because common cleaning practices just aren't known like trench digging or thorough cleaning of buckets used both for conveying waste away from camp and collecting water from the nearby stream.
Hell with most diseases you are likely not to know there is a problem until someone starts showing symptoms for blinding sickness or coughing up oozy lung bits.
Ahh. In my home games it comes up largely from the fact that they are on the open roads of the frontier, operating a caravan that needs to carry food and water to survive. Along the way they run the risk of collecting up contaminated food and water and I'm in the process and potentially putting the whole caravan at risk.
So in an effort to simulate that I've started to build a random disease list that comes up if someone gets sick or if they roll up a contaminated stores hazard. To do that though I've had to start figuring out a lot of the ways you actually get exposed to some of these diseases which, with just the PFC is not that easy.
Still not really a fan of giving them Summon abilities.
Again I don't think of gorillas as summoners and if we are talking about an SLA it should give you something you can't imitate with other skills. If you wanted to try something close to that again the speak with animals option fits more appropriately.
Right now though I'm thinking that the Thundering Drums, Blistering Invective, or Shatter are probably some of my top choices. The latter gives you this awesome ability to scream at a guy and blow up his sword or crumble his armor. That seems pretty quaking in the boots when you have to worry about the squad of Silverbacks having a battle cry that destroys all their enemies stuff.
London Duke wrote:
Actually I think that plays out to a +11. +1 Str bonus, +1 powerful build, +2 shift grapple bonus, +2 Improved Grapple bonus, +1 BaB, +4 Animal Aspect.
Either way I'm not digging animal aspect either. It's too easy and just feel redundant with what you have already done.
Shillelagh would be cool but it feels more appropriate for a race with more connection to nature and trees, like something a treantfolk would have.
2nd 3rd lvl spells aren't unheard of but in most cases they are a more dominant part of the the races persona rather than a side ability. Remember you want the SLA to complement the gorilla theme not overshadow it.
That being said rage isn't a terrible choice that is 3rd lvl but it is very limited in who would use it. Most non martials wouldn't get much out of it and even a magus would be hard pressed since he couldn't cast while it was going.
Grease also feels too out there for the concept and more like something silverback's would cast rather than something they could just do.
Clarion Call is on the money but just boring unfortunately. It just lets you make loud noises and be heard over long distances. It's helpful but no more than a trumpet or ghost sound and just doesn't make me as a player or gm go, "that makes me want to play one of these".
Ear Piercing Scream is really good but it's biggest problem is that it can only be heard by the target and no one else, so the silverback will sound terrifying to that one guy and just be mute motioning to everyone else.
Already talked about Swallow Your Fear being really cool but still on the fence about since it's a bit too situational and I feel like there has to be something more thematically appropriate out there. But it is a good 2nd or 3rd choice.
Blood Rage is just too good as an SLA for this build but I could totally see it being a racial spell they would have cooked up alongside the orcs.
Almost forgot this one. Blistering Invective is really cool and on point, the one issue it really has is that as a Silverback if you use it on a nonshapechanger humanoid while shapechanged you take a -4 penalty to the Intimidate check which makes it a little hit or miss. Also I kind of wish it could be sonic damage rather than fire. Sonic feels more in line with the chest beating kong shout than burning someone up.
Still reading through the last 3 will hit you back as I get to them.
Current front runners are Swallow Your Fear, Ear-piercing Scream, Thundering Drums, and Blistering Invective.
Rolling through them now. Still reading through them all but from the few I have I can lay this out.
Drop Resounding Clang, Mad Monkeys, and any spells that are at the very least 3rd level spells.
Resounding Clang only really works on metal and though it is cool it doesn't feel like the spell like ability I would get from being king kong.
Mad Monkeys is amazing but it is a 3rd level spell which puts it pretty high above the power curve for the other spell like abilities common to not just normal race choices but the SLAs of the other skinwalker variants we've already gotten. Remember that's the same level as spells like fireball, haste, and fly so giving them to low level players is a lot of juice to give.
Also yeah 5ft reach could be pushing it. Remember that unlike powerful build a flat 5ft reach would improve all their melee abilities without any extra investment on the part of the player, unlike powerful build where I would still have to buy and transport all that BIGGER gear.
The other thing I would say is that though Gorillas have large arms I wouldn't think they had any longer reach than other creatures of their size.
Any chance you can tell us what golem your party was using this strategy against? It might help us to better figure out an answer to this problem.