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Kaiju, Mogaru

doc the grey's page

FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,717 posts (2,742 including aliases). 14 reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 10 Pathfinder Society characters. 5 aliases.


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Shadow Lodge

Another question, do Orcs age differently than presented in the ACG, since as it stands Grask is at least 23 years old by the timeline the book presents and worried about hitting middle age but would already be middle aged by the books reckoning.

This only gets exacerbated if you assume he wasn't born directly into the control of the Empty Hand Tribe as the book seems to present and run on (he invents the token system and manages to wrangle together the rest of the stability in Urgir and the region by then) which means he's likely much closer to his 30's.

Is he actually supposed to already be middle aged or old and worrying about dying, is it a calculation error, or do orcs age differently in Golarion than the book line presents like tieflings?

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Okay other question: Having just got this is the Juggerloathe supposed to have a damage type with its swallow whole ability? Otherwise how is it able to make use of its Devour Life ability unless it literally eats someone and they either die passing the gums or bleed out in it's gullet?

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John Compton wrote:

I've read the thread, and I'm familiar with the issue. I'm not yet convinced that we need a new rule, but I'm going to float an idea and see if it has any merit:

Numerous sources allow a PC to purchase an animal to serve as a mount, companion, or combatant; however, a PC can only purchase an animal if its Challenge Rating is lower than that character's level (minimum CR 1).

What would this do? It would allow any PC to buy a horse, a camel, or a riding dog at 1st level (CR 1). Pets and pack animals with fractional CRs are likewise unaffected. It also would mean that a PC could not buy a bison or tiger—combat trained or otherwise—until level 5 (CR 4). Of course, these creatures would still be available through the animal companion class feature. The only gap I see is the heavy horse, which is CR 2 (minimum character level 3), yet a combat-trained light horse is still available right out of the gate.

That sounds like a pretty good hot fix for people who this worries and also helps mark to make leveling feel a bit more interesting. That being said you might want to right just right in an exception for the heavy horse and maybe a small list to help represent some of the other areas in golarion. Like I'd think it would be more weird for a mwangi fighter to have a heavy horse if he's originally from the expanse than say a jaguar.

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Am I too late for the free copy?

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Am I too late for a free copy?

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Flaming Crab Games wrote:
Wow, doc the grey, thanks so much for the lengthy and flattering review! We're glad you love it!

Np I'd been meaning to write it for a while and felt like the time to post it. A little hyperbolic maybe but I feel like the praise is worth it. Those damn orders really are that cool and it's worth the pick up for any game that

1.) Runs Cavaliers

2.) allows 3rd party books

The content is thematic and well balanced which is something that can be a big worry a lot of times for GMs when you allow stuff from outside 1st party and luckily this is not the case. It gives good content that is right in the sweet spot on the power curve with the rest of Paizo's current content.

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Is there gear or new army formations in this?

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I think the bigger question that needs to be asked is as a GM do you want your players to have full health for every fight or to have to juggle resources and the risk/reward of going in underpowered?

If the former than the CLW wand fills that role already it just separates it from being a particular classes sole responsibility and allows all characters to equally bare the burden.

If the latter than removing CLW wands from the equation and replacing it with something just as cheap and still not bared by one individual just continues that issue and to address it likely involves the change of the way people approach dungeon and encounter design rather than just adding a new ways to perform the "resource revive" in each dungeon.

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Voadam wrote:

Perhaps a heretical branch of Dretha? She is the orc goddess of fertility and tribes and already has the community domain.

Thisamet sounds like a possibility. CG azata of celbrations, feasts, and holidays. Has the community domain (slant towards law?), sacred animal is a cow (peace?). Name might be feminine, don't know.

Also Lythertida the Voiceless Tragedy, NG empyreal lord of idealism, young death, and potential. Has the community domain, favored weapon is unarmed strike, and symbol is an eye with a tear.

Lythertida is pretty cool choice wise and it getting closer but I still off. Something with that focus on community, law, good, and peace. Falayna is pretty close too but again doesn't meet a lot of the criteria i.e. the peace focus and community aspects I'm aiming for.

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Ian Bell wrote:
Not an empyreal lord, but the dwarf goddess Folgrit fits fairly well and would certainly be an audacious choice for orcs.

Lol yeah that would be pretty funny lol but I'm looking more for a classic choice of some kind of powerful outsider not already a part of a pantheon like a demon lord or archdevil. Something that is an outsider 1st and a patron of a people second in a persons mind.

All that being said though I'll go check her out.

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So I'm working on a reverse demon cult for my home game that is meant to fill a lot of the same roles as a demon cult (secretive fringe group of social deviants that worship a powerful supernatural entity) but within a race that already has a propensity for worshiping evil deities. So think of like an angel cult in a drow clan or a group or a wild azata hobgoblins.

For this one I'm trying to work on a mystery cult for Orc society that is focused on everything Orcs aren't. Think peace, community, and femininity with a slant towards law. The problem is I don't know of any printed Empyreal Lords that really fit all 4 of those marks off hand but I've come here to ask if anyone here knows of any Empyreal Lords that fit the bill.

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arcanine wrote:
Why don't GM's allow evil characters? I remember he said something like " you can do what ever you want, when your evil." I will admit I have not looked up on how a evil Character is suppose to act. But I would assume they could do just about anything. Is it to powerful of a alignment? I thought chaotic natural was the best alignment you can act how you want. And NO he didn't not tell me about this alignment shifting, PC snatching trick. I really need to look more into the communities views on evil characters. I honestly don't think my characters alignment should have changed. Thanks for the quick responses.

1.) Because there are players that take having that E on their alignment sheet as an excuse to harass others at the table and generally be a nuisance to having the table go well and everyone have a good time. So in that spirit (and with likely a burn or 2 under their belt from a previous player) there are a lot of GMs who either ban the alignment for players or take over the character once they walk that path.

2.) This is further explained because to gain the E you're not usually talking about just killing someone or stealing something you are talking about willful violation of others to achieve the ends you want for yourself. Murdering a child to prove to a paladin that life is cruel and unfair, burning an orphanage to collect the insurance you have on the kids and the building, or say saving indigenous peoples from a warlord only to enslave them for yourself. Now others might not go to this length when they GM to show what it means to get the E but the idea is that you've done something that isn't just a bad act but a series of bad acts consistently enough that they could be called your character's go to choice for handling trouble.

3.) Again not the most powerful alignment (as all are pretty equal) so much as the one with the easiest excuse to do what it wants. The biggest problem for a lot of GMs is punishing the behavior when it's disruptive while rewarding it when it's okay and since murdering people for their stuff is a lot of this game that line can be hard. If in an adventure path or more fleshed out world it is a lot easier since you can just ask, "What would happen if someone would do this in real life?" and then add magic but again this is not always that easy for GMs.

4.) As for alignment shifts that is normal and usually healthy as it can help showcase the changes a character has undergone through the game. It can be really cool to watch your CN Gozreh druid start out as this wild child who doesn't give a s%!& about others or creating a settlement and then slowly become the NG druid king of his nature focused settlement, his heart softened by having to see the plights of his people. That being said like anything that has power it can be misinterpreted and abused by both players and GMs.

The most important thing here is that you should talk with your GM and establish a dialogue over what he/she finds to be the road to damnation so you can better work with it and or change it. Along with that your GM should trust you to want to be their and interact with everyone else at the table in a manner that enriches the experience of yourself, the GM, and the other players. If everyone is having fun and no one feels s~%%ty for being there then all should be good in the hood.

P.S. Ask your GM what houserules he plays by in general when you start a group and if you are GM'ing post them for your players. This is issue of "unknown houserules" comes up here more times than anyone would like and the easiest way to avoid it is if GMs would just post their stuff where the players can see it. Barring that always ask to be on the safe side.

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bump

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From Bestiary 1, Regenerate head ability wrote:
A hydra doesn't die from losing its heads until all are cut off and the stumps seared by acid or fire.

Not to argue that the hydra doesn't have it's problems but the rules state just butchering the heads off won't take it out.

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To elaborate, say a guard is tagged by the tanglefoot bags of 4 thieves trying to immobilize him and unfortunately for him he's fails all his reflex saves. Now what happens? Does he have to individually break out of each of these bags, do they each have their own hp or does it stack, do each of them have their own timer until they break down or have some form of stacking?

If anyone has any official answers to this either in the books or from the devs would be greatly appreciated.

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Torag's earthen boots from Inner Sea Gods. They give you a few nice little bonuses (+2 vs. Trip & Bullrush as long as you don't leave your square) but it's big draw is the flat fast healing 1 so long as you don't leave the square. No limit, no cool down, no minimum wear time to get that buff all you have to do is just activate, stay on your feet, and don't leave the square till you have your health where you want. Perfect item for the tank in the party and it gives you the chance to double as a backup healer in a pinch. And if you get something better just throw them in your pack and save them for later.

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Lilith Knight wrote:

Traps marked with an asterisk (*) add to or modify the effects of another.

It doesn't say may be add, it says they are added. It doesn't give you the option to use them separately.

See that's what I keep saying but he seems to not be able to take that at face so I seem to have to keep arguing this. Here's hoping that I can get some more responses here or maybe the lucky dev about it so this whole conversation can end.

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bump

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Luthorne wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

I just got my copy of the PDF. Turns out that only Wizards can get the school familliars. Saddening, but it makes sense thematically.

HOWEVER. Sorcerers can get bloodline familliars. The abilities aren't as powerful, but you get them only for the cost of losing your first bloodline power and geting your bonus spells one level later.

That's really good if you don't care about the spells, since first level powers generally aren't that great anyway.

Is that meant to be a feat or archetype option?
It's more similar to an archetype, though it isn't explicitly listed as an archetype, simply that any bloodrager or sorcerer can trade out their 1st level bloodline power and delay access to their bloodline spells for one level in exchange for a familiar with a particular benefit related to their bloodline. It doesn't cost a feat.

So there still isn't a way for me to just take a feat as say a rakshasa sorcerer and get the rakshasa familiar?

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Can ranger traps marked with an asterisk be used separately or only when combined with other traps?

This debate has been raging with one of my players for a while now and I'm looking for any solid answer. Links or page references that help back this up would be greatly appreciated.

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always interested in free swag. Nothing helps pass the sick days faster.

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Oliver McShade wrote:

just an idea.

But only require one Elemental domain option being set by deity.. like Fire for The Great Inferno.

Then let the player choose any (non-elemental), domain for there other option. This would let there be a lot of option, to cover all the domains, while still linking the cleric by deity.

Anyway, i think that would be the most interesting option in the long run.

Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt but that feels too simplistic a model to yield the kind of interesting play I'm looking for in the setting we run at home. Opening up all domain options for a cleric of any of these 4 gods so long as they have a one of the elemental domains just leaves you with this large clergy that don't really have any shared qualities or narrative firmament save that they, "All have water" or fire, or whatever elemental domain they have and that just ends up uninteresting. Worst of all it takes away a lot of interesting narrative work you put into a divinity that is expressed in that domain portfolio like the idea that Norgorber has death and charm, Sarenrae's fire and forgiveness aspects. They all get washed out when you can just ignore it to take whatever you want and that is easy when you don't give players some solid narrative ground to fiddle in like a solid list of things that fall under that god's interests. Like it would feel weird if I could take Charm or Good as cleric domains if I was a cleric of Rovagug and that that was as normal and okay in Golarion as any other weird combination.

Again I'm not intending to tear you a new one here, just understand a little bit of why that just doesn't really work for most situations and this capacity in particular. Domains are a great way to kind of present a gods personality to your players and give them something to groove off of and set your religion/divinity apart from others that share the domain. If you just write this blank check with that minor caveat it runs the risk of creating a clergy that doesn't have anything in common and not much to grow your PCs off of.

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the David wrote:

My advice is to aim for the standard of 5 domains, and that you keep in mind that those 5 always include the appropriate alignment domains. In other words, a lawful good deity has to take Law and Good as domains, as well as 3 others of your choice. It sucks a bit, but that's how it works.

Ofcourse, you can leave the alignment of your deities ambiguous as their motives are beyond mortal comprehension. Or as most elementals, they could be neutral. You might want to keep in mind that with 33 domains, 4 deities with 5 domains each aren't gonna cover all of them.

Going to try to knock out these responses as they come up.

1. Alignment domains: I'm looking to actually avoid alignment domains for these divinities in particular since they are meant to represent not just elemental forces but the elementals and the planes they come from. The Great Gale is as much a representation of wind as he is the father and king of Invisible Stalkers, Air Elementals, and Belkers. As such he and the other Elemental Lords here are left neutral.

2. Covering the whole domain spread: I know about the domain spread and I'm not really worried about trying to cover the domain spread. The pantheon these guys are being incorporated into has enough various religious options to cover the spread as it is. What I'm aiming for right now is just hearing what ideas for domains and favored weapons people get from reading these entries (along with whatever interesting inspiration they get from the classical elements themselves) and seeing what seems the most interesting here. In other words don't worry about hitting the spread I'm interested in see what people think is cool and fits the characters created here.

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Bump

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To elaborate on this a little I'm building 4 gods into my home game meant to be the rulers and representatives of the 4 elemental forces of Air, Earth, Fire, and Water and I'm hitting a bit of a snag with with a few things. First is domains, I've got a few for each but I'm having trouble really sinking some of the final options that feel right and really make them shine. Second is weapons for a few of them as I'm trying to find something that feels right with both their aesthetic and that of the culture of the region.

So I'm going to throw some of my notes up here to give everyone the idea of what I'm aiming for with each and see what happens from their.

Final note: The setting is very plains indians, american great plains themed and should show up in these gods who they would worship.

The Inferno:
: The living fire of all creation, The Inferno appears on earth after Water runs off with Air and gets lost in the sky giving him room to scream across the plains without water to stop him. Inferno is known as a God of rebirth, seduction, curiosity, and flame for though she comes and lights the plains ablaze in her wake she seeds the lands soil and brings bounty with her. It is believed that with her fire comes rebirth.

Current Domains: Charm, Fire, Healing,
Potentials: Strength and Glory (but looking for more interesting ones)
Favored Weapon: Shortbow

Rumbling Mountain:
: One of the oldest thing in all the Plains he and Water existed in the time when man and beast were just dreams and gods and monsters roamed the plains alone. With Water's help and his knowledge they created the greatest sights one could ever see (oceans, mountains, rivers, etc.). During this time he also makes flowers and plants for her as his gift, something pretty and powerful but stable like himself. This continued until she leaves and gets lost in the sky with Air, leaving the Inferno to come in and cause havoc while she is away. He's basically the patron of Stone, Memory, and Solitude right now but I can't think of much else.

Current Domains: Earth, Knowledge
Potentials: Plant, Strength
Favored weapon: not sure but I like something simplistic, blunt, and powerful like a greatclub or Gunstock warclub

Lady of the Rains:
: The other original elemental of the world The Lady Rain is the great creator and shaper of pretty much all the great landmarks of the world along with her partner Rumbling Mountain. In the time before time she and he sculpted oceans, rivers, lakes, waterfalls, and even the snow capped peaks together with he having this great strength and material while she had the true gift of creation. Their greatest success was when they come together and create life as Rumble tries to create these greater beings than the plants he'd grown and comes up short with her she grants his creations life and motion, giving their iron hearts water to pump and turning it to red blood. She eventually begins to travel with the Elemental lord known as The Great Gale but together they get lost in the sky, unable to come down for half a year but so marvelous is this experience that she goes back every year to look upon everything the world has and the creations it carries.

Current Domains: Artifice, Water, Weather
Potentials: Travel
Favored Weapon: Taiha

The Great Gale:
: The wind on the breeze, The Great Gale is all of the great ambitions of the sky. The Great Gale traveled through space and saw all that was made and being made and wept with both joy and sorrow for he saw so much but could not be seen in turn. So while he travels he learns the magics of all that is and the words to use them in hopes that he could impress upon magic the same great works the gods and beings of the time before man create. When he gets to the frontier he begins to start writing his stories into everything he sees, his story are wind etched canyons and the slithering ripples in the desert dunes. He is the force that teaches language to man as they travel and start to learn how to read his cuts in the earth. For him Tornadoes are his quills which he uses to cut his words into the earth itself. Eventually though The Great Gale meets The Lady of Rains and he convinces her to come away with him into the clouds where she can see all the things he would write into the earth. Unfortunately once she gets there again they both find out that she becomes like a ghost like he is and they both get lost in the sky.

Current Domains: Air, Magic, Rune, Travel, Trickery
Potential domains: I actually am pretty cool with his but I'll take suggestions
Favored Weapon: No clue but I kind of like something like a Boomerang, with some of the holy weapons of his producing these great tornadoes that cut runes into the earth

So remember a lot of this is a first pass but I'm down to hear any thoughts people might have. Remember these are supposed to be First Nation style religious choices so I'm also trying to avoid a lot of favored weapons that fall under that spread if I can. Hope to hear people's ideas soon.

Shadow Lodge **

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GM Lamplighter wrote:

One way for smaller groups to handle this is to schedule twice as many tables as they usually do, and see if people sign up for Core or Standard. If you get a split, then you can take steps to deal with it, but likely most players in your group will prefer one or the other.

(I know not every group does advance sign-ups, so let this be your excuse to do it! It is an essential step in growing your lodge, it results in better games since GMs can prep more effectively, it allows more players to know before they get there what PC they're playing so they can be prepared, and on the off chance someone can't play any of the scenarios that week, they know before hey get to the venue. I can't stress enough how important this is. It basically moves you from an open private game to a public lodge, and that helps attract more players and GMs.)

I can tell you for a fact that this doesn't solve stuff everywhere. In our area what is likely to happen when we schedule these 2 events instead of one is that we now have to saddle one of our GMs with another night they have to work into their schedule and instead of having 1 table of 4-6 we get 2 tables (on 2 different nights) of 2-3 as people pick the day that better matches their schedule, when their friends play, what night works better for their baby sitter, the one that matching their college schedule, or maybe is core or not core. Just adding days in areas like ours where players are coming from up to an hour and a half away or are spread out to on average 1 every 2.5-3.75 sq miles and even with facebook, locally managed scheduling sites, and paizo.com just adding extra dates can already put too much stress on the system if they are not CAREFULLY managed. Core just throws another level of complexity into the system that can already put it at risk and still feels a lot like a band aid for most of the problems it seems to have been designed to solve.

At best it seems to give a temp solution to replays (an issue that only those with a rather large amount of play time in our area seem to have but YMMV) but it still fails to address a lot of the major problems I hear new players at the table discuss when I ask them. It doesn't address player understanding of the rules, it doesn't address ease of entry to the most difficult mechanics to comprehend for them (magic), it doesn't address dislike of certain players, it doesn't address teaching player consciousness at the table (i.e. would playing this character with this group of people/GM make the whole experience for all of us better or worse?), and it doesn't address making players feel more connected to the story or narrative of PFS than just being murder hobos for the grand lodge. I mean Core still doesn't address what the hell I'm supposed to say to new players or GMs coming into S6 but having to play scenarios where Torch is an ally even though the whole of society wants him in chains at best or in the ground at worst.

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Matrix Dragon wrote:

I just got my copy of the PDF. Turns out that only Wizards can get the school familliars. Saddening, but it makes sense thematically.

HOWEVER. Sorcerers can get bloodline familliars. The abilities aren't as powerful, but you get them only for the cost of losing your first bloodline power and geting your bonus spells one level later.

That's really good if you don't care about the spells, since first level powers generally aren't that great anyway.

Is that meant to be a feat or archetype option?

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Tacticslion wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
David Neilson wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
Only CR 5, and regen can't be turned off by any damage type. You gotta knock them down and coup de grace or suffocate them. :D
Doesn't work. Regeneration brings them back from CdG and suffocation too.
You may be right on coup de grace, but I believe suffocation is called out as working on regen.

"Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally."

I was wrong about coup de grace working... it doesn't, as you have to inflict damage to use it. :D

Considering suffocation is actually mentioned in the description of Regeneration, I would assume it works... that being said, you aren't just holding these guys down and smothering them with pillows, they are "only" CR 5, can fly, and have 15 foot reach. It's pretty much ranged combat or nothing on these things.

Suffocation certainly works (and I'd allow it), but there's a relatively solid argument that it doesn't actually kill the creature in question, merely force it into unconsciousness until it recovers normally - which could be forced "indefinite" duration 'cause, say, you bury it in a rock, but still. This has not been FAQ'd to my knowledge.

I'd think it work considering that since suffocation is lumped in with the other 2 essential bodily functions (food and water) that the vast majority of organisms need to survive I think the point is that starving out the Regen creatures essential resources that supplies them with the materials to maintain cell grow kills them just as dead.

That being said I think that beat regen by literally strangling a troll or forcing it to starve to death sounds infinitely more cool and memorable than just lighting it on fire again.

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Flaming Crab Games wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Wow first impression is that there is WAY more content than I originally expected. I was ready for just a set of summon undead spells and some explanations, what I've got is a whole new summoner alt revolving around undead, like 4 new archetypes, and A LOT of new spells including one that is essentially summon zombie horde. Suffice it to say I'm already excited for this read. Will have to post a review for this and the also excellent cavalier orders book.

I hope it's a good read!

Reviews are always very appreciated, thanks! They help us and potential customers!

doc the grey wrote:
Also quick notice while perusing the back matters in the book you have a misprint in the feeble ghoul section. Its damage is supposed to have a -1 penalty due to the 9 Str.

Oh shucks! Thanks for pointing that out... I remembered to adjust the attack, but for some reason only reduced the damage by 1 instead of 2.

I'll be sure to adjust that in the next update!

K np man and I should be throwing those reviews up sometime here in the near future. Also gotta say nice work with the self promotion and player options all rolled into one in a few of these options. Lol their seem to be a lot of terrifying, self combusting crab skeletons in here...

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Scribbling Rambler wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Mike Lindner wrote:

This is awesome. I think this will really help those who want to or at least may be willing to try GMing. I look forward to running core only games.

This is coming from "one of those" that uses every option under the sun.

Not really. As a Player it reduces the number of source books you have to know but as a GM you still have to know all the rules that whatever scenario you are using references. In other words even if you are running a core table their is still a high chance you are going to have to know how to use feats, skills, spells, or classes from other supplements if that module makes use of them.

I strongly disagree.

As a GM who has not run a Society session since 2011, the sheer volume of new classes, races, archetypes, feats, spells, etc etc has been far too steep a hill to climb to get back into running a PFS game. And that's with my being comfortable with the books which had come out to that point (APG, Ultimate Magic (Ultimate Combat was new and not an issue yet)).
On the other hand learning a new monster, or the abilities of a specific NPC, is just basic GM prep.
The problem is not the rules for the scenarios, it's all of the combinations of abilities of the unknown characters who may show up.

A Core campaign is not for everybody, and it may not be for you, but it requires far less homework on the part of a GM.

But all those rules are things that you are going to have to learn as part of Core once you start GM'ing scenarios that take place after those rules came into effect. S3-S6 all use them in some capacity and if you plan to run those in Core you'll eventually learn them at the same rate.

As for what your players are using I know where we're at you can just ask them in advance (since many have to register beforehand) if you are really worried and an app or a google search will let you know what they are doing. Now I realize this might not be the case where you are or where even a lot of people might be located but with organization tools like facebook, cellphones, and strong communications networks between organizers (and more importantly GMs) this problem of unknown builds has been vastly mitigated. If someone in our region has some crazy ass build that uses a bunch of obscure rules at an event and is planning on using it again (and lets be fair most crazy stuff takes at least a few levels to start to actually play out) then most of the GMs here have heard about it or we can ask one another to know if their is some obscure rule they plan to rock.

But again I understand that their are likely regions not as blessed with a close GM base as my area but again that doesn't make that hurdle much higher. I've always found that if I'm really worried about something crazy from *insert new big book here* hitting the field I just hop on here and ask what's popular right now and try to just get a basic understanding of it. Works especially well if you have a VL or VO in your area who games a lot at your venue. Barring that maybe I hold off a week, hit the session I'm planning to GM, and ask the players what they play/what they will want to play if I play X scenario and then familiarize myself with that stuff so I don't get that clueless unease feeling I get when someone walks in with something crazy from a book that came out while I was away.

Now again, if you are in an area that has a lot of turnover, HIGH player volume (I'm talking events with turnout over 20+), constant large new player turnout (like half your group at each table is 50% players no one has every played with before), a lot of players who cycle through dozens of complicated character builds all the time, poor event scheduling, or very unconnected GM/player base this might not work for you but I've found this works better than anything else and still nets me out less work than having to just read every book from the last 3 years to try and comprehend everything my party could bring to bear at the table or having to create a whole new version of the game that has to be scheduled around to try and mitigate this problem.

But again I hope that all of my worries are entirely unfounded, that Core is an unmitigated success, and that even I'm playing a game or 2 here in a year. But the way that these worries have been addressed and worse how it feels fears have been dismissed rather than being assuaged by some of those most fervently championing has done nothing but increase my concern.

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Mike Lindner wrote:

This is awesome. I think this will really help those who want to or at least may be willing to try GMing. I look forward to running core only games.

This is coming from "one of those" that uses every option under the sun.

Not really. As a Player it reduces the number of source books you have to know but as a GM you still have to know all the rules that whatever scenario you are using references. In other words even if you are running a core table their is still a high chance you are going to have to know how to use feats, skills, spells, or classes from other supplements if that module makes use of them.

Shadow Lodge **

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Soluzar wrote:
I'm seeing a problem here. I know that this has likely been discussed internally for months. We're seeing a lot of VO's and 5 stars gushing about this. Then there are people like me. I don't object to it but I do have some concerns. There is a condescending vibe coming off of some of these responses. Just because some of you knew this was coming and already may have discussed some of these points does not make them less valid.

With you homes and after talking with a lot of our local PFS players and VLs I'm feeling more with you than I did 24 hours ago.

I feel like this really only addresses the issue of replays in a very limited and band aid type of way that will peel off and take us back to square 1 in 6 months to a year. I feel like this lowers the number of options but doesn't address actual concerns of barrier to entry (offering better teaching tools to new players, promoting 1st timer play sessions, discouraging group think pressure situations, encouraging solidarity and veteran education at the table, etc.). I can already see the nightmare it will cause and is already causing to scheduling to any area that has a threshold lower than 3 tables an event. It feels as if it doesn't address large chunks of optimization considering that most of the greatest offenders on the min/max table are classes out of core while at the same time many of the most weak (but initially attractive) classes are stuff that is core legal and will present their own problems there in.

But my biggest worry already is what it will do to the community. I know in my own area we have players who look at the vast majority of content outside of a very narrow spectrum as cheese, cheating, or some other variation of derisive crap that somehow pollutes their game experience and look down at people who want to play with it for any reason and I worry that they are going to latch onto something like this with a passion and help further exacerbate the problem. I can already see tables that will have this mindset where if you aren't core your cheese and are somehow a lesser player than those of us who don't care or have less extreme viewpoints and that they will apply pressure to players both new and old to conform to their preferred style of play. I can already see new players hit the table and being asked, "Are you Core build?" and getting that glare from the rest of the table that signals you better be or we don't want you here and thanks to the fact that we've segmented the two modes off from one another at the same table many will be able to see at least part of this argument since if you don't have a table that's all one type you might just not have a game. I think that's the worst part of all of this, that to make this thing work we have to adopt a system that literally splits the party or plays with the ideas of separate but equal. By doing so we complicate far more things than we simplify.

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Soluzar wrote:

Ok...this is going so be a little long and tongue in cheek but someone has to play the devil's advocate (no I never had any Cheliax characters).

-One of the cited goals was to make chronicle sheets viable again. That's nice, I'm sure I'm going to be chomping at the bit to get a Cloak of Resistance +1. Being...

Actually this doesn't make that cloak any more valuable. You can still get any items from the Core Rulebook with whatever cash you've managed to accrue without needing the item on your boon sheet. The rule about items being inaccessible only really effects any stuff from beyond Core.

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Also quick notice while perusing the back matters in the book you have a misprint in the feeble ghoul section. Its damage is supposed to have a -1 penalty due to the 9 Str.

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Honestly on the unfun realm I've had to say a lot of creatures with the animal type often fall into this category for me since in a lot of published materials they feel more like they are treated as bags of walking hp and set in these tiny fight rooms rather than actually presented as animals. In most cases I get something like a deinoychus, crocodile, or say a bison and it's treated like a dungeon roadblock stuck in the middle of a small space and not presented with either a way to slip around and escape fights like an animal naturally would or with special abilities that might make the fight feel more interesting than dealing with a monster with a built in knife.

It kind of echos some of the sentiments Ashiel mentioned where the fights can just often feel uninteresting or uninspired which is a shame considering how terrifying real encounters with things like lions can be and with all the actual information we have on them and many other creatures these fights should be just as terrifying if not more so. Also it gives a lot of room to really expand on some questions like how do lions, crocs, and wolves fit into worlds where dragons, manticores, and pegasi also fight with them for ecological niches or hell what about things like undead or even giants and aberrations that could wander their worlds?

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Wow first impression is that there is WAY more content than I originally expected. I was ready for just a set of summon undead spells and some explanations, what I've got is a whole new summoner alt revolving around undead, like 4 new archetypes, and A LOT of new spells including one that is essentially summon zombie horde. Suffice it to say I'm already excited for this read. Will have to post a review for this and the also excellent cavalier orders book.

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If this free copy thing is still up I'm down for it as well.

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Nearyn wrote:

If encountered in terrain such as swamp or river, crocodiles are scary as heck.

They casually stealth for 23, sneaking silently closer to you in the water, then they strike at you, or a party member that is falling behind, such as small-folk.

Once it strikes it bites down on you in the surprise round, attacking your flat-footed AC for a 15 to-hit average, biting you for 1d8+4 dmg and grappling you with an average grapple-check of 21.

Then comes the actual round, and you better pray that your party was walking right-the-flip next to you, because if you are not immediately adjacent to eachother, and you're in bog, they're gonna have to slowly wade to your rescue, and if you're in river, they'll have to swim to your rescue. Meanwhile, the crocodile continues its grapple and proceeds to pin you, death-rolling you for 1d8+6 with a free trip attack, while dragging you below water.

Now you're pinned, damaged, drowning, sinking and potentially blind, depending on the clarity of the water the crocodile struck from. Your party members can come to your rescue, but even if they can reach you/swim down to you/whatever they're making attacks vs the crocodile at -2 and dealing half damage, that is if they can even see it and not just alot of bubbles and blood in the water.

for a CR 2 monster, I find the crocodile to be rather unpleasant. Not to mention being attacked by a pair - or gods forbid a colony (3-12). :C

-Nearyn

Let me tell you about crocs. I was playing through one of the pfs modules and we had to cross a river that apparently had one of these little bastards in it and a trap across the only good path across while his ranged druid parked it on the other side of the river and just waited for us. And unfortunately for yours truly I was the main tank as the slayer and had to test the path. By the end of round 1 I had a damn bear trap on one leg, a croc on the other, and an arrow in my leg. It was like a scene from Ace Ventura. Damn crocs hurt.

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Anastasius Brightstar wrote:
snickersimba wrote:
Still, there are times that you need to just cut your plans and run with a new idea. If he has internet, the archives of nethys or D20PFSRD and his character sheet should work, hell, even the PRD should let him build a bloodrager. Besides, I seriously think if you don't give him a bloodrager, you are doing something wrong. Bloodrager is magical and smashy. Two things newbies love. Smashing heads and burning things.
There's still the problem of him actually going through and reading things. Which is where the entire issue stems from in the first place with his magus. If he doesn't know where to find spell durations with a magus, he's not going to know where to find them for a custom cross-class that he'd have to build from scratch.

Sorry to say if he doesn't like reading a lot then this might not be the game for him lol. Pathfinder and for that matter most tabletops require a good amount of reading even for some of the most basic classes and not wanting to do even basic reading of your spells is kind of breaking the covenant you make when you join the vast majority of groups. If your boy wants to continue playing his magus your GM probably needs to talk to him and make it clear that READING THE BOOK is going to be pretty essential for him to continue to play without him becoming a burden to the rest of the party. Maybe offer him the chance to respec into something like a fighter which might have less reading requirement or system savvy?

Another interesting option is to embrace him as a part time player. Ask him if he's really that interested in being a dedicated player (making every session, learning his character, etc.) or if he's looking to just try the game from time to time or just needs a more flexible schedule. If the latter let him be part time. Put his character on some secondary mission off screen that separates him from the party like doing missions for the crusades while your team handles the story proper. From there you guys are more open to do your own thing, maybe even search out a player who is more dedicated to fill in as a more permanent member.

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Sorry if some of this has already been suggested but if his problem is being overwhelmed at the sheets then I'd have to suggest talking to him a lot and figuring out what he easily understands and what he needs help with. I know some strategies that work for some people completely fail for others. I know for me Perram's spellbook is really helpful for spell tracking. Have him print his spell book and some copies of spells he preps multiple times in a day and make a deck and then lay his preps on the table when he starts then when he uses them flip them over or something to show they are used. Next I would say dial down dice are really helpful in my experience to keep track of my modular numbers and are usually pretty easy to get a hold of. You can get them from buying magic fat packs and if you have magic: the gathering players floating around you probably have a few near the table.

After that the other big thing I can say is that the magus itself is not exactly the easiest class to play first time nor WotR especially once he has to start worrying about mythic tiers and all that they entail. The former he's likely going to have to just sit down and work on away from the table so that he starts getting the mechanics down but the latter can be a serious problem. If mythic powers become something he has a real difficulty grasping then you might have to let him go since they aren't going to be getting any less complicated.

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I would put it somewhere near the Elven kingdom of Kyonin. They already have that distance and aloofness of the elves and a culture that isn't really trusting of most outsiders who aren't elves including Half-elves. Maybe have him grow up as a woodsman as an expression of his elven connection to nature and the best way to feel close to his elven roots even though he can't truly be a part of them like the full elves he lives with can.

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ericthecleric wrote:

Dragon78: ** spoiler omitted **

Hope that helps.

weredeinonychus ranger?! For the love of god tell me there is a picture of this marvelous creature!

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Claxon wrote:
Probably not. You probably have to use it improvised. It's not really meant to be used in anyway except as a chainsaw, which it's not doing if it's out of power.

Yeah that's my current worry since without power I think that the teeth and chain will just spin on contact with a target without any power to help create resistance in the opposite direction.

The real thing I want to know though is if there has been any rulings one way or another on this that says what happens?

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Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Well, there's always improvised weapons. I think last time it came up I suggested a lighter club (as most of the weight is in the handle) or a greatclub that deals you piercing damage (if you hold it by the blade to beat people with the motor).

Well I figured it would work as an improvised weapon. My bigger issue is if I have Exotic Weapon Proficiency (chainsaw) and my chainsaw has suddenly run out of juice, is it still able to do some type of damage without being an improvised weapon, similar to how a ripsaw glaive works without having to be revved up?

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Flaming Crab Games wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

Lol I love these orders guys excellent work! The order of the claymore (also known as the Liam Neeson order) is so badass it hurts, the 2 new rose factions are the s%+% (I love the white rose mechanics, so good thematically and for really tanking a game), the luck order is great, and the freakin mercenaries are mean as hell. Ohh also the order of the road is really on point and I love that the auroch companion feat is still good even if you play in games like mine that have more open mount lists for cavaliers.

Now one question though, is the extra attack that scorpion order cavaliers get as a swift action after tripping supposed to treat as two-weapon fighting if they use a different weapon or not?

Thanks for kind words! Haha, the Liam Neeson order is pretty on point! We should have just called it that!

The extra attack is not supposed to be treated two-weapon fighting. The scorpion cavalier gets their full bonus on that attack even though the other weapon might be in your "off-hand."

Sweet that's exactly what I thought it did but wanted to make sure that was the intent before I went forward with building one.

That is now incredibly terrifying and awesome.

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To further elaborate has paizo mentioned whether or not the chainsaw from the technology guide does anything as a weapon should it run out of power or is it now effectively a just a very heavy paper weight?

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Jinjifra wrote:
Galnörag wrote:

How do crossbows take any less expense in manufacturing and care? I will grant perhaps less training. Mass combat is also not a great comparison, as Pathfinder and its predecessor are crude simulations of skirmishing not wars. A lord or huntsman could be proficient in a bow and use it for hunting, bows have been for hunting and warfare since the Middle Paleolithic.

The decline of the archer in Europe may be attributable to other factors, like their lack of efficacy on armoured opponents, as they remained in wide scale use until over taken by gun powder weapons. Early gun powder weapons being much more susceptible to environmental conditions.

Actually building a long bow isn't that hard but the historical ones had a draw weight of 80 - 110 pounds, and the training to be able to use one was so intense that when they find the graves of longbow men the skeletons are deforned from the force of having to continuously pull the bow back. There is a famous quote by Edward the III "to train a longbowman start with his grandfather". The longbow was a more efficient weapon than the musket in terms of range and armor piercing it was just so hard to use that muskets took over. So going off of history it makes a lot of sense as an exotic weapon.

On the other hand if go by fiction, everyone who has ever set foot in a forest uses a longbow. I would say pathfinder is much more modeled after fiction than reality so it makes sense that longbows aren't exotic.

Exactly this and it is here where the main problem a lot of people have about building nonbow characters begins and continues. It is when my fantasy of being a kick ass crossbowmen is apparently punished because it doesn't align with pathfinder's fantasy expectations. It has been rather annoying for a very long time to have a large swath of options to choose from ranged wise but then find out that many of them are actually more a punishment for not choosing the bow.

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Lol I love these orders guys excellent work! The order of the claymore (also known as the Liam Neeson order) is so badass it hurts, the 2 new rose factions are the s&@* (I love the white rose mechanics, so good thematically and for really tanking a game), the luck order is great, and the freakin mercenaries are mean as hell. Ohh also the order of the road is really on point and I love that the auroch companion feat is still good even if you play in games like mine that have more open mount lists for cavaliers.

Now one question though, is the extra attack that scorpion order cavaliers get as a swift action after tripping supposed to treat as two-weapon fighting if they use a different weapon or not?

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Bump

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
There are, in fact, multiple (and less baroque) ways for characters to get familiars.

You talking right now or with this book? Because as it stands I don't really know of another way to get one as a sorc without eldritch heritage or picking up some class levels in another class.

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