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Kaiju, Mogaru

doc the grey's page

FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,684 posts (2,709 including aliases). 12 reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 10 Pathfinder Society characters. 5 aliases.


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Shadow Lodge

Also quick notice while perusing the back matters in the book you have a misprint in the feeble ghoul section. Its damage is supposed to have a -1 penalty due to the 9 Str.

Shadow Lodge

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Honestly on the unfun realm I've had to say a lot of creatures with the animal type often fall into this category for me since in a lot of published materials they feel more like they are treated as bags of walking hp and set in these tiny fight rooms rather than actually presented as animals. In most cases I get something like a deinoychus, crocodile, or say a bison and it's treated like a dungeon roadblock stuck in the middle of a small space and not presented with either a way to slip around and escape fights like an animal naturally would or with special abilities that might make the fight feel more interesting than dealing with a monster with a built in knife.

It kind of echos some of the sentiments Ashiel mentioned where the fights can just often feel uninteresting or uninspired which is a shame considering how terrifying real encounters with things like lions can be and with all the actual information we have on them and many other creatures these fights should be just as terrifying if not more so. Also it gives a lot of room to really expand on some questions like how do lions, crocs, and wolves fit into worlds where dragons, manticores, and pegasi also fight with them for ecological niches or hell what about things like undead or even giants and aberrations that could wander their worlds?

Shadow Lodge

Wow first impression is that there is WAY more content than I originally expected. I was ready for just a set of summon undead spells and some explanations, what I've got is a whole new summoner alt revolving around undead, like 4 new archetypes, and A LOT of new spells including one that is essentially summon zombie horde. Suffice it to say I'm already excited for this read. Will have to post a review for this and the also excellent cavalier orders book.

Shadow Lodge

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If this free copy thing is still up I'm down for it as well.

Shadow Lodge

Nearyn wrote:

If encountered in terrain such as swamp or river, crocodiles are scary as heck.

They casually stealth for 23, sneaking silently closer to you in the water, then they strike at you, or a party member that is falling behind, such as small-folk.

Once it strikes it bites down on you in the surprise round, attacking your flat-footed AC for a 15 to-hit average, biting you for 1d8+4 dmg and grappling you with an average grapple-check of 21.

Then comes the actual round, and you better pray that your party was walking right-the-flip next to you, because if you are not immediately adjacent to eachother, and you're in bog, they're gonna have to slowly wade to your rescue, and if you're in river, they'll have to swim to your rescue. Meanwhile, the crocodile continues its grapple and proceeds to pin you, death-rolling you for 1d8+6 with a free trip attack, while dragging you below water.

Now you're pinned, damaged, drowning, sinking and potentially blind, depending on the clarity of the water the crocodile struck from. Your party members can come to your rescue, but even if they can reach you/swim down to you/whatever they're making attacks vs the crocodile at -2 and dealing half damage, that is if they can even see it and not just alot of bubbles and blood in the water.

for a CR 2 monster, I find the crocodile to be rather unpleasant. Not to mention being attacked by a pair - or gods forbid a colony (3-12). :C

-Nearyn

Let me tell you about crocs. I was playing through one of the pfs modules and we had to cross a river that apparently had one of these little bastards in it and a trap across the only good path across while his ranged druid parked it on the other side of the river and just waited for us. And unfortunately for yours truly I was the main tank as the slayer and had to test the path. By the end of round 1 I had a damn bear trap on one leg, a croc on the other, and an arrow in my leg. It was like a scene from Ace Ventura. Damn crocs hurt.

Shadow Lodge

Anastasius Brightstar wrote:
snickersimba wrote:
Still, there are times that you need to just cut your plans and run with a new idea. If he has internet, the archives of nethys or D20PFSRD and his character sheet should work, hell, even the PRD should let him build a bloodrager. Besides, I seriously think if you don't give him a bloodrager, you are doing something wrong. Bloodrager is magical and smashy. Two things newbies love. Smashing heads and burning things.
There's still the problem of him actually going through and reading things. Which is where the entire issue stems from in the first place with his magus. If he doesn't know where to find spell durations with a magus, he's not going to know where to find them for a custom cross-class that he'd have to build from scratch.

Sorry to say if he doesn't like reading a lot then this might not be the game for him lol. Pathfinder and for that matter most tabletops require a good amount of reading even for some of the most basic classes and not wanting to do even basic reading of your spells is kind of breaking the covenant you make when you join the vast majority of groups. If your boy wants to continue playing his magus your GM probably needs to talk to him and make it clear that READING THE BOOK is going to be pretty essential for him to continue to play without him becoming a burden to the rest of the party. Maybe offer him the chance to respec into something like a fighter which might have less reading requirement or system savvy?

Another interesting option is to embrace him as a part time player. Ask him if he's really that interested in being a dedicated player (making every session, learning his character, etc.) or if he's looking to just try the game from time to time or just needs a more flexible schedule. If the latter let him be part time. Put his character on some secondary mission off screen that separates him from the party like doing missions for the crusades while your team handles the story proper. From there you guys are more open to do your own thing, maybe even search out a player who is more dedicated to fill in as a more permanent member.

Shadow Lodge

Sorry if some of this has already been suggested but if his problem is being overwhelmed at the sheets then I'd have to suggest talking to him a lot and figuring out what he easily understands and what he needs help with. I know some strategies that work for some people completely fail for others. I know for me Perram's spellbook is really helpful for spell tracking. Have him print his spell book and some copies of spells he preps multiple times in a day and make a deck and then lay his preps on the table when he starts then when he uses them flip them over or something to show they are used. Next I would say dial down dice are really helpful in my experience to keep track of my modular numbers and are usually pretty easy to get a hold of. You can get them from buying magic fat packs and if you have magic: the gathering players floating around you probably have a few near the table.

After that the other big thing I can say is that the magus itself is not exactly the easiest class to play first time nor WotR especially once he has to start worrying about mythic tiers and all that they entail. The former he's likely going to have to just sit down and work on away from the table so that he starts getting the mechanics down but the latter can be a serious problem. If mythic powers become something he has a real difficulty grasping then you might have to let him go since they aren't going to be getting any less complicated.

Shadow Lodge

I would put it somewhere near the Elven kingdom of Kyonin. They already have that distance and aloofness of the elves and a culture that isn't really trusting of most outsiders who aren't elves including Half-elves. Maybe have him grow up as a woodsman as an expression of his elven connection to nature and the best way to feel close to his elven roots even though he can't truly be a part of them like the full elves he lives with can.

Shadow Lodge

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ericthecleric wrote:

Dragon78: ** spoiler omitted **

Hope that helps.

weredeinonychus ranger?! For the love of god tell me there is a picture of this marvelous creature!

Shadow Lodge

Claxon wrote:
Probably not. You probably have to use it improvised. It's not really meant to be used in anyway except as a chainsaw, which it's not doing if it's out of power.

Yeah that's my current worry since without power I think that the teeth and chain will just spin on contact with a target without any power to help create resistance in the opposite direction.

The real thing I want to know though is if there has been any rulings one way or another on this that says what happens?

Shadow Lodge

Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Well, there's always improvised weapons. I think last time it came up I suggested a lighter club (as most of the weight is in the handle) or a greatclub that deals you piercing damage (if you hold it by the blade to beat people with the motor).

Well I figured it would work as an improvised weapon. My bigger issue is if I have Exotic Weapon Proficiency (chainsaw) and my chainsaw has suddenly run out of juice, is it still able to do some type of damage without being an improvised weapon, similar to how a ripsaw glaive works without having to be revved up?

Shadow Lodge

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Flaming Crab Games wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

Lol I love these orders guys excellent work! The order of the claymore (also known as the Liam Neeson order) is so badass it hurts, the 2 new rose factions are the s%+% (I love the white rose mechanics, so good thematically and for really tanking a game), the luck order is great, and the freakin mercenaries are mean as hell. Ohh also the order of the road is really on point and I love that the auroch companion feat is still good even if you play in games like mine that have more open mount lists for cavaliers.

Now one question though, is the extra attack that scorpion order cavaliers get as a swift action after tripping supposed to treat as two-weapon fighting if they use a different weapon or not?

Thanks for kind words! Haha, the Liam Neeson order is pretty on point! We should have just called it that!

The extra attack is not supposed to be treated two-weapon fighting. The scorpion cavalier gets their full bonus on that attack even though the other weapon might be in your "off-hand."

Sweet that's exactly what I thought it did but wanted to make sure that was the intent before I went forward with building one.

That is now incredibly terrifying and awesome.

Shadow Lodge

To further elaborate has paizo mentioned whether or not the chainsaw from the technology guide does anything as a weapon should it run out of power or is it now effectively a just a very heavy paper weight?

Shadow Lodge

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Jinjifra wrote:
Galnörag wrote:

How do crossbows take any less expense in manufacturing and care? I will grant perhaps less training. Mass combat is also not a great comparison, as Pathfinder and its predecessor are crude simulations of skirmishing not wars. A lord or huntsman could be proficient in a bow and use it for hunting, bows have been for hunting and warfare since the Middle Paleolithic.

The decline of the archer in Europe may be attributable to other factors, like their lack of efficacy on armoured opponents, as they remained in wide scale use until over taken by gun powder weapons. Early gun powder weapons being much more susceptible to environmental conditions.

Actually building a long bow isn't that hard but the historical ones had a draw weight of 80 - 110 pounds, and the training to be able to use one was so intense that when they find the graves of longbow men the skeletons are deforned from the force of having to continuously pull the bow back. There is a famous quote by Edward the III "to train a longbowman start with his grandfather". The longbow was a more efficient weapon than the musket in terms of range and armor piercing it was just so hard to use that muskets took over. So going off of history it makes a lot of sense as an exotic weapon.

On the other hand if go by fiction, everyone who has ever set foot in a forest uses a longbow. I would say pathfinder is much more modeled after fiction than reality so it makes sense that longbows aren't exotic.

Exactly this and it is here where the main problem a lot of people have about building nonbow characters begins and continues. It is when my fantasy of being a kick ass crossbowmen is apparently punished because it doesn't align with pathfinder's fantasy expectations. It has been rather annoying for a very long time to have a large swath of options to choose from ranged wise but then find out that many of them are actually more a punishment for not choosing the bow.

Shadow Lodge

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Lol I love these orders guys excellent work! The order of the claymore (also known as the Liam Neeson order) is so badass it hurts, the 2 new rose factions are the s*!# (I love the white rose mechanics, so good thematically and for really tanking a game), the luck order is great, and the freakin mercenaries are mean as hell. Ohh also the order of the road is really on point and I love that the auroch companion feat is still good even if you play in games like mine that have more open mount lists for cavaliers.

Now one question though, is the extra attack that scorpion order cavaliers get as a swift action after tripping supposed to treat as two-weapon fighting if they use a different weapon or not?

Shadow Lodge

Bump

Shadow Lodge

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
There are, in fact, multiple (and less baroque) ways for characters to get familiars.

You talking right now or with this book? Because as it stands I don't really know of another way to get one as a sorc without eldritch heritage or picking up some class levels in another class.

Shadow Lodge

wait so what are these new mundane weapons and how much damage do they do?

Also what does the new titan fighter barbarian get?

Shadow Lodge

I echo a lot of Scythia's sentiment where for the vast majority of classes I don't really try to assign them too much to any distinct social position and at most generalize an answer to help my PCs get a feel for how they all fit in the world we play in. Remember for the most part the people of the world you're running really don't see character classes. A holy man of a god could be as much a bard or even an expert as they could be a cleric.

About the one place I kind of fiddle with this is with arcane casters in that societies that spend a lot of time trying to distinguish the who and how of how they gain access to arcane magic. But beyond that I try not to play hard and fast to any one cultural option in my game worlds.

Shadow Lodge

Albatoonoe wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

So hold it, you're saying my Rakshasa blooded Rakshasa tiefling sorcerer might finally be able to have a rakshasa familiar?!

In!

Dude, you can already get a Raktavarna as a familiar. It's in Bestiary 3. Rejoice!

Yes but as a Rakshasa bloodline sorcerer I cannot qualify for a familiar without also taking eldritch heritage (arcane), skill focus (spellcraft), and then Improved Familiar.

From the sounds of it though we are getting a feat that lets sorc's supersede that very baroque chain and just get a familiar that matches their bloodline, a fact that if true makes me immensely happy.

Shadow Lodge

Secret Wizard wrote:
Once per day, as a standard action, ignore one ongoing effect on you for 1 hour.

Oh that could be cool. What's the reasoning behind it?

Shadow Lodge

I was thinking of more suggestions and ideas should we not have preexisting ones.

Like for example

The Jol Greenskin brigade: activated over a decade ago during Opir 8 fingers rule, the Greenskin brigade is a military outfit designed to incorporate the many Orcish orphans and refugees fleeing or left over from conflicts within the Kodar mountains into a fighting force that is both effective in defending Jol's borders against further incursions from the hills while simultaneously galvanizing these Orcish refugees into a productive force away from the rest of Jol's population. Orcs who are brought to the unit are guaranteed a full pardon from any past transgressions, food and shelter, and citizenship after 12-20 years of service. Often this work is difficult and many do not make it but amongst the brigade all are equal.

Not exactly the most noble example but it does help build on the idea of how various factions might deal with various monstrous races inside their border beyond just trying to kill them and with Opir's already tenous rule coupled with the giant problem his region has I could see him deputizing orcs into a "loyal" viking force if he thought it would help show off his might and they gave him the proper platitudes.

Shadow Lodge

So are we actually going to design some organizations for Golarion or is this mean to be more of an abstract discussion of what might be needed to raise the children of these various and often evil aligned races?

If the former I have a few I just don't want to get off track of the general discussion going on here.

Shadow Lodge

So I'm working on some prestige awards for a faction based around the plains indians of the western united states.

Currently I'm working on a title award called Brave. It's a title with the prerequisites of 10 Fame and 3 Prestige and will start to segway into some of the larger titles including Warchief, Grand chief, and a few other options I'm still working on.

The problem is that I cannot think of a good boon for the actual boon. I want something that feels like it goes with the brave theme but is a bit more interesting than just gaining a new class skill. So does anyone have any good ideas?

Shadow Lodge

Okay other question on gifts. What about when you give a gift that's pre built like say giving them a weapon or piece of armor? How do you make the craft roll for that?

Shadow Lodge

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
So that means that if the PC sorcerer had potential rank ups with all 5 NPCs in that potential period he can take a shot at ranking up with all of them correct?

Indeed. Because I am a crazy person, my PCs had the opportunity with 28 different NPCs during the last milestone (they're getting to the end and have met nearly all that they will ever meet, and they've fastidiously managed to convince every possible NPC to join their caravan because they love collecting NPCs and ranking them up).

If you collect all the minis, you too can have an intricate web of relationships that connects the PCs to a complicated supporting cast!

Lord! That's way more than I thought you could pull per milestone! I actually use the caravan system in my homebrew and custom build hirable NPCs for them alongside the heavyweight ones and they've started to befriend them as well! I thought it was just one and considering the number of milestones you got (around 5-10) by the end of it you would have all of them amongst the party. This does not make incorporating this now that the game has been going for almost a year much easier.

k next question:

So with CP that can be earned at any time that I as GM deign that they have done something to help further their relationship with an NPC rather than just at milestones correct?

With gifts are those meant to be something that can only be used to rank up or is that mechanic also applicable to earning CP?

Each milestone, they get 1 attempt per NPC to give a gift or perform an interaction using a skill (maybe go on a little hunting trip, etc). This might give CP. However, if the PCs do something significant for the NPC, it might give free CP above and beyond this. For instance, saving an NPC from being kidnapped would definitely count.

Okay so for the vast majority of instances the only time one can gain CP or rank up is during a milestone. All other times it's just game as usual unless otherwise GM stated.

Shadow Lodge

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
So that means that if the PC sorcerer had potential rank ups with all 5 NPCs in that potential period he can take a shot at ranking up with all of them correct?

Indeed. Because I am a crazy person, my PCs had the opportunity with 28 different NPCs during the last milestone (they're getting to the end and have met nearly all that they will ever meet, and they've fastidiously managed to convince every possible NPC to join their caravan because they love collecting NPCs and ranking them up).

If you collect all the minis, you too can have an intricate web of relationships that connects the PCs to a complicated supporting cast!

Lord! That's way more than I thought you could pull per milestone! I actually use the caravan system in my homebrew and custom build hirable NPCs for them alongside the heavyweight ones and they've started to befriend them as well! I thought it was just one and considering the number of milestones you got (around 5-10) by the end of it you would have all of them amongst the party. This does not make incorporating this now that the game has been going for almost a year much easier.

k next question:

So with CP that can be earned at any time that I as GM deign that they have done something to help further their relationship with an NPC rather than just at milestones correct?

With gifts are those meant to be something that can only be used to rank up or is that mechanic also applicable to earning CP?

Shadow Lodge

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

Are milestones meant to be tied to the rank up scenarios presented in Imperial relationships or are they meant to be something more free floating that happens independent of the rank ups?

Are gifts something that can happen separate from milestones or are they meant to only happen in tandem with milestones?

So what happens if a player reaches the camaraderie cap with a character but there are no more milestones planned for that current part of the adventure path, can they still rank up without a milestone or are they supposed to wait until another milestone occurs and try then?

If a player fails his chance to rank up at a milestone and again they are out of milestones does that mean that they have to wait till another one occurs or can they initiate the rank up without being in a milestone?

The guide suggests that there should be about 5 milestones per ap book. Are each of these meant to be tied to individual characters or is the opportunity an open opportunity to advance your plot with any character you can?

What is the average rank progression supposed to be per level or book? I.e. is there supposed an average rank a player is supposed to be at with each character at each level?

Think of milestones like markers that together delimit a period of time. So let's say Milestone #10 was saving the frog princess and Milestone #11 was allying with the flamingo knights. Then between those two events, each PC can try one gift or activity to gain CP, and if they are ready for rank up, they can attempt that rank up once (if they gain enough CP to rank up due to a gift or activity, they can do both).

Does that mean you can only attempt 1 rank up or CP increase per period?

For example during that period between frog princesses and flamingo knight the PC Sorcerer can only gain CP with one NPC or rank up and not say further his relationship with like 3 NPCs?

During that period between frog princesses...

So that means that if the PC sorcerer had potential rank ups with all 5 NPCs in that potential period he can take a shot at ranking up with all of them correct?

Shadow Lodge

I actually picked this up on Drivethru. It's pretty good and a nice guide to building a commoner who could survive an encounter or 2 in a PCs world lol.

Really has me excited for the Adequate Commoner guide this book is building towards.

Shadow Lodge

Same!

Shadow Lodge

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

Are milestones meant to be tied to the rank up scenarios presented in Imperial relationships or are they meant to be something more free floating that happens independent of the rank ups?

Are gifts something that can happen separate from milestones or are they meant to only happen in tandem with milestones?

So what happens if a player reaches the camaraderie cap with a character but there are no more milestones planned for that current part of the adventure path, can they still rank up without a milestone or are they supposed to wait until another milestone occurs and try then?

If a player fails his chance to rank up at a milestone and again they are out of milestones does that mean that they have to wait till another one occurs or can they initiate the rank up without being in a milestone?

The guide suggests that there should be about 5 milestones per ap book. Are each of these meant to be tied to individual characters or is the opportunity an open opportunity to advance your plot with any character you can?

What is the average rank progression supposed to be per level or book? I.e. is there supposed an average rank a player is supposed to be at with each character at each level?

Think of milestones like markers that together delimit a period of time. So let's say Milestone #10 was saving the frog princess and Milestone #11 was allying with the flamingo knights. Then between those two events, each PC can try one gift or activity to gain CP, and if they are ready for rank up, they can attempt that rank up once (if they gain enough CP to rank up due to a gift or activity, they can do both).

Does that mean you can only attempt 1 rank up or CP increase per period?

For example during that period between frog princesses and flamingo knight the PC Sorcerer can only gain CP with one NPC or rank up and not say further his relationship with like 3 NPCs?

Shadow Lodge

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So hold it, you're saying my Rakshasa blooded Rakshasa tiefling sorcerer might finally be able to have a rakshasa familiar?!

In!

Shadow Lodge

Aaron Bitman wrote:

I quote Jason Bulmahn in this thread:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Aha... my misfortune strikes again! This is just not my day. Oddly enough, this weapon table does not match the one I turned over for layout... its missing a host of items. I am going to have to investigate this one more fully.

Edit: Yeah, this looks like an unfortunate copy-fit error when the table was made to fit the space allotted. For the record, here are the missing entries. We will make sure to get this fixed at the next possible opportunity.

66 sai
67 sap
68-69 scythe
70-73 shortbow
74-75 shortspear
76-80 shortsword
81 shuriken
82 sickle
83–84 sling

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Thank you and much obliged. Will be using this the next time I have to roll out some weapons.

Shadow Lodge

Did anyone ever address the 10% missing from the random weapon table? As it stands the percentages jump from 65 with the rapier on pg. 370 to 85 with the Spear.

Shadow Lodge

Like for me, the biggest thing I'm picturing is getting chased down that classic hall of mounted armors, stopping, and turning to my party and going, "I got this" and then start animating these suites of armor and sending them charging at the guards all the while blood dripping from his nose as he starts animating a small army.

Ohh or ending up in a kitchen and animating a swarm of butcher knives to come flying at the bandits who chased me in there.

Or s#*+, being on a battlefield and animating a broken trebutchet to stand up and start smacking orcs around with its giant catapult arm while trundling along on some broken tension wheels.

Shadow Lodge

Shiroi wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Shiroi wrote:

@doc the grey

I can see the ability to use animated weapons to get their full attacks and all the magic abilities of a weapon at range as a tele-blast option. I can also see using a tele-anything composite blast by surrounding the thrown object with elemental matter, like a flaming desk flipping across the room, or freezing a tapestry so it becomes heavier and more solid and throwing it. I don't feel like creating a flaming chair as an autonimous creature would benefit the class in any way, if that's what you mean. For one, if you want your character to do that it's perfectly well within your power already. Use spark of life, elementals may have "normal/preferred" forms, but they can be molded any which way you choose. If you want to have a living suit of ice armor follow you around, Spark of Life works well for that already. Floating chandelier of wind? Weird, but not rulebending. Go for it.

Just realized I misunderstood what you said there. Dunno if I'd take that option, but animating objects as a spark of life equivalent wouldn't be out of line. Not my cup of tea, but a decent idea.

I believe the intention is to use animating objects as Aether's version of Spark of Life, since it cannot create elementals, using telekinesis to animate the object rather than animating objects with cold and fire.

This is pretty close to what I was envisioning. Like instead of them imbuing their element with a spark of their being a telekinetic is wrapping telekinetic force around an object and directing it to attack like a puppet. My telekinetic imbues his will upon the empty chair next to him and has it assault his captors, swinging and smashing at them with its wooden legs and arms with reckless abandon or filling a standing suite of armor with his drawn aether and sending it charging at bad guys.

I mean in my mind spark of life already basically lets a user make a fighting doll out of whatever element they are attuned to. The

...

I get that but I don't think anyone's saying that anymore than they are saying it's a problem with the normal use of it. Hell if I'm geomancing in a silver shop I could just as easily pull that off or hell anywhere since the shape of my sparked creation is really left to, the kineticist. As for the sentience it is a small piece of the creators consciousness rather than a new mind coming into existence so it's probably going to have more in line with it's parent mind then some new person. But if someone wants to have an animated creation with the mind of a matronly maid there is nothing stopping them from pulling that off with any of the other kineticists either though I don't know how helpful that will be in say, wasting some bandits lol.

Shadow Lodge

Milo v3 wrote:
Shiroi wrote:

@doc the grey

I can see the ability to use animated weapons to get their full attacks and all the magic abilities of a weapon at range as a tele-blast option. I can also see using a tele-anything composite blast by surrounding the thrown object with elemental matter, like a flaming desk flipping across the room, or freezing a tapestry so it becomes heavier and more solid and throwing it. I don't feel like creating a flaming chair as an autonimous creature would benefit the class in any way, if that's what you mean. For one, if you want your character to do that it's perfectly well within your power already. Use spark of life, elementals may have "normal/preferred" forms, but they can be molded any which way you choose. If you want to have a living suit of ice armor follow you around, Spark of Life works well for that already. Floating chandelier of wind? Weird, but not rulebending. Go for it.

Just realized I misunderstood what you said there. Dunno if I'd take that option, but animating objects as a spark of life equivalent wouldn't be out of line. Not my cup of tea, but a decent idea.

I believe the intention is to use animating objects as Aether's version of Spark of Life, since it cannot create elementals, using telekinesis to animate the object rather than animating objects with cold and fire.

This is pretty close to what I was envisioning. Like instead of them imbuing their element with a spark of their being a telekinetic is wrapping telekinetic force around an object and directing it to attack like a puppet. My telekinetic imbues his will upon the empty chair next to him and has it assault his captors, swinging and smashing at them with its wooden legs and arms with reckless abandon or filling a standing suite of armor with his drawn aether and sending it charging at bad guys.

I mean in my mind spark of life already basically lets a user make a fighting doll out of whatever element they are attuned to. The walking elemental ball is mindless and can only act if the kineticist spends a move action directing it to act. If that's the case then it makes a lot of sense for my telekinetic to be able to wrap my aethiric will about an object and cause it to shamble after someone like an animated creature. I mean if a geomancer can make a hunk of wall grow arms and amble after a dude why not let me use a suit of armor like a hollow action figure I move with my telekinetics?

Shadow Lodge

thejeff wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
thejeff wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

Ahh. In my home games it comes up largely from the fact that they are on the open roads of the frontier, operating a caravan that needs to carry food and water to survive. Along the way they run the risk of collecting up contaminated food and water and I'm in the process and potentially putting the whole caravan at risk.

So in an effort to simulate that I've started to build a random disease list that comes up if someone gets sick or if they roll up a contaminated stores hazard. To do that though I've had to start figuring out a lot of the ways you actually get exposed to some of these diseases which, with just the PFC is not that easy.

That's what Purify Food and Drink is for. Other than cases where there just aren't any divine casters available, food and water borne illnesses just aren't a problem.

Sort of. Purify food and drink only really helps if you know what food is actually contaminated before you consume it (which is not as easy as it sounds for a low to mid level party and NPC classed npcs) and if you have diseases that can't survive off of food. If we are talking a midevil setting you can have things that get caught simply because common cleaning practices just aren't known like trench digging or thorough cleaning of buckets used both for conveying waste away from camp and collecting water from the nearby stream.

Hell with most diseases you are likely not to know there is a problem until someone starts showing symptoms for blinding sickness or coughing up oozy lung bits.

With a caravan and relatively limited amounts of food and water, if you have even a low-level priest along, you purify everything. It's an orison. You can use it as much as you want. Don't wait for the disease to show up, use it as a preventative.

Obviously, it doesn't handle all diseases, but the food/water contamination ones go away.

Sort of. Assuming that a unit of stores (which holds 10 provisions, 1 of which can feed a horse) is at least 50 lbs we are talking about on average about 350 lbs of perishables you would have to be checking daily. On top of that it's not permanent so if you have clean food in a contaminated environment you still run the risk of contamination even after casting. Part of why they actually list it in the caravan rules as giving you a bonus to fighting off contamination rather than actually solving it whole sale.

I'm not saying it's not a good idea, just saying it comes with as many other problems as it helps prevent.

Shadow Lodge

thejeff wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

Ahh. In my home games it comes up largely from the fact that they are on the open roads of the frontier, operating a caravan that needs to carry food and water to survive. Along the way they run the risk of collecting up contaminated food and water and I'm in the process and potentially putting the whole caravan at risk.

So in an effort to simulate that I've started to build a random disease list that comes up if someone gets sick or if they roll up a contaminated stores hazard. To do that though I've had to start figuring out a lot of the ways you actually get exposed to some of these diseases which, with just the PFC is not that easy.

That's what Purify Food and Drink is for. Other than cases where there just aren't any divine casters available, food and water borne illnesses just aren't a problem.

Sort of. Purify food and drink only really helps if you know what food is actually contaminated before you consume it (which is not as easy as it sounds for a low to mid level party and NPC classed npcs) and if you have diseases that can't survive off of food. If we are talking a midevil setting you can have things that get caught simply because common cleaning practices just aren't known like trench digging or thorough cleaning of buckets used both for conveying waste away from camp and collecting water from the nearby stream.

Hell with most diseases you are likely not to know there is a problem until someone starts showing symptoms for blinding sickness or coughing up oozy lung bits.

Shadow Lodge

Ahh. In my home games it comes up largely from the fact that they are on the open roads of the frontier, operating a caravan that needs to carry food and water to survive. Along the way they run the risk of collecting up contaminated food and water and I'm in the process and potentially putting the whole caravan at risk.

So in an effort to simulate that I've started to build a random disease list that comes up if someone gets sick or if they roll up a contaminated stores hazard. To do that though I've had to start figuring out a lot of the ways you actually get exposed to some of these diseases which, with just the PFC is not that easy.

Shadow Lodge

Still not really a fan of giving them Summon abilities.

Again I don't think of gorillas as summoners and if we are talking about an SLA it should give you something you can't imitate with other skills. If you wanted to try something close to that again the speak with animals option fits more appropriately.

Right now though I'm thinking that the Thundering Drums, Blistering Invective, or Shatter are probably some of my top choices. The latter gives you this awesome ability to scream at a guy and blow up his sword or crumble his armor. That seems pretty quaking in the boots when you have to worry about the squad of Silverbacks having a battle cry that destroys all their enemies stuff.

Shadow Lodge

Also not into long arm. Again, though gorillas have bigger arms than legs (but realize their legs are much shorter than our own) I don't think reach is a key part of what I think of when I see gorilla man.

Shadow Lodge

London Duke wrote:

Animal Aspect (Gorilla) is an obvious but potentially very very powerful choice.

A level 1 tetori silverback with the extra feature feat would have a +10 grapple without factoring in strength.

Actually I think that plays out to a +11. +1 Str bonus, +1 powerful build, +2 shift grapple bonus, +2 Improved Grapple bonus, +1 BaB, +4 Animal Aspect.

Either way I'm not digging animal aspect either. It's too easy and just feel redundant with what you have already done.

Shadow Lodge

Shillelagh would be cool but it feels more appropriate for a race with more connection to nature and trees, like something a treantfolk would have.

2nd 3rd lvl spells aren't unheard of but in most cases they are a more dominant part of the the races persona rather than a side ability. Remember you want the SLA to complement the gorilla theme not overshadow it.

That being said rage isn't a terrible choice that is 3rd lvl but it is very limited in who would use it. Most non martials wouldn't get much out of it and even a magus would be hard pressed since he couldn't cast while it was going.

Grease also feels too out there for the concept and more like something silverback's would cast rather than something they could just do.

Clarion Call is on the money but just boring unfortunately. It just lets you make loud noises and be heard over long distances. It's helpful but no more than a trumpet or ghost sound and just doesn't make me as a player or gm go, "that makes me want to play one of these".

Ear Piercing Scream is really good but it's biggest problem is that it can only be heard by the target and no one else, so the silverback will sound terrifying to that one guy and just be mute motioning to everyone else.

Already talked about Swallow Your Fear being really cool but still on the fence about since it's a bit too situational and I feel like there has to be something more thematically appropriate out there. But it is a good 2nd or 3rd choice.

Blood Rage is just too good as an SLA for this build but I could totally see it being a racial spell they would have cooked up alongside the orcs.

Almost forgot this one. Blistering Invective is really cool and on point, the one issue it really has is that as a Silverback if you use it on a nonshapechanger humanoid while shapechanged you take a -4 penalty to the Intimidate check which makes it a little hit or miss. Also I kind of wish it could be sonic damage rather than fire. Sonic feels more in line with the chest beating kong shout than burning someone up.

Still reading through the last 3 will hit you back as I get to them.

Current front runners are Swallow Your Fear, Ear-piercing Scream, Thundering Drums, and Blistering Invective.

Shadow Lodge

Rolling through them now. Still reading through them all but from the few I have I can lay this out.

Drop Resounding Clang, Mad Monkeys, and any spells that are at the very least 3rd level spells.

Resounding Clang only really works on metal and though it is cool it doesn't feel like the spell like ability I would get from being king kong.

Mad Monkeys is amazing but it is a 3rd level spell which puts it pretty high above the power curve for the other spell like abilities common to not just normal race choices but the SLAs of the other skinwalker variants we've already gotten. Remember that's the same level as spells like fireball, haste, and fly so giving them to low level players is a lot of juice to give.

Shadow Lodge

Also yeah 5ft reach could be pushing it. Remember that unlike powerful build a flat 5ft reach would improve all their melee abilities without any extra investment on the part of the player, unlike powerful build where I would still have to buy and transport all that BIGGER gear.

The other thing I would say is that though Gorillas have large arms I wouldn't think they had any longer reach than other creatures of their size.

Shadow Lodge

I would say reduce the bonus and damage on slams to 1d6+Str and let them have 2 which is more in line with the actual gorilla stat block. Also it gives an easy setup for taking something like rend down the road. Now you have a gorilla man who hits people with both hands and then tears them in half.

Shadow Lodge

So since we are still talking about this has anyone brought up making a spark of life option for telekinetics that gives animated objects instead of elementals? It would be awesome for telekinetics that lets them animate chairs, tables, and carriages against enemies.

Shadow Lodge

Yeah. Also when the image of a gorilla magus gets stuck in my head for days or a mad gorilla wizard I think it means you should keep it.

Shadow Lodge

Uthak wrote:

Alchemist fire is only 20 gp, the main problem is that the golem eat up the whole area of the 10 x 10 pit, all the party has to do is get them into the pit and they hit the golem. with 4 party members left to act after the wizard pits the golem that is 4d6 points of dmg. It has two options at this point spend a full round rolling around to put out the flames( halting it climbing out), or reflex save to avoid 4d6 points of fire dmg again(witch it will more than likely fail), and mind that it would be 4 separate saves one for each bottle.

the only thing I can think of that stops this from working is if the golems DR works against the fire dmg, is that the case?

Any chance you can tell us what golem your party was using this strategy against? It might help us to better figure out an answer to this problem.

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