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Kaiju, Mogaru

doc the grey's page

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber. FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,798 posts (2,823 including aliases). 14 reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 11 Pathfinder Society characters. 5 aliases.


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Welcome to the discussion page for the The Burying Season one shot. Here you can feel free to ask me out of game questions, check some game resources, vocab and formatting stuff, etc. I'm going to start by listing some reference material and formatting below.

This is an image of what a lot of the free standing buildings that exist around here are likely to look like. Most of the people in Upperborough live in large tents with permanent buildings usually being something for things like shops, temples, or the periodic residence for those who need or prefer something more settled.

If you are writing in a language that isn't common make sure to put it behind a spoiler tag with a spoiler that indicates what one might need to read it.

i.e.

In halfling:
Man I want some coffee

or

Orc gibberish:
WAAAGGGHHH!

The environment of the surrounding area is akin to the American great plains in terms of environment and the American Southwest. So think rolling open plains alongside rough badlands. Any more info would be obtainable through the use of Knowledge (geography) in game if you are interested.

Make sure to check out the world wiki starting Here. After that punch in the frontier tag in the search bar on obsidian portal and it should help fill in a lot of gaps.

The Imperium: the massive nation that the frontiersmen owe fealty to. They have a base south of here where one of their legions operates. They maintain the roads and defend the farming villages around the town of Lowerborough. Think NCR from Fallout New Vegas

Frontiersmen: The rough and tumble farmsteaders of the region, Frontiersmen are the descendants of Imperials (often of the Octavian, Calvan, and Anastasian lands) who migrated here once the land was opened to settling by the Imperium. Though descended from Imperial citizens they have developed into their own unique culture and both see each other as separate people now.

Nomads: The native people of this land the Nomads have lived here since time immemorial. They roam the lands on foot and horseback surviving off the lands as few others can. Their relationship with the Imperials and Frontiersmen is often tense as these new groups move into their traditional lands and set up shop forcing them to relocate. That being said they do have a level of respect for each other as many Nomad clans fought side by side with Imperial Legions during the Orc wars over 2 centuries ago. Though nomads include humans it also encompasses other races like feralfolk, orcs, nomad born half-orcs, halflings, hobgoblins, goblins, and Ironborn.

New languages:

Slivic: the language of the nomads. Sounds like Navajo or Apache.

Saradaga: Known as The Sun Language Saradaga is the language of the people of the city of Jaddah Yafif. It has roots in Draconic, Igan, and their own primitive proto-language. It sounds arabic.

Shadow Lodge

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Garrett Guillotte wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

K another question. When using augmentations on ammunition do you apply it to a set of 50 pieces of ammunition like you do with magical ammunition or do you use some other number?

Like if I want to make Cylex crossbow bolts does it end up costing me 162.3 gp per bolt ([5+300+7810]/50)?

Yes, the reasoning being that you have to integrate the power source into the ammunition, which is a bit more expensive to miniaturize. In exchange, you get more uses but they're fully consumed when used.

In general and if not stated otherwise, you're safe treating an augmentation like a magical special ability.

Quote:

Second can you use expended technology (timeworn objects without charges) to produce augmentations?

Like could I take a timeworn chainsaw, use it till it powers down, then work what's left into my glaive? Cause if so that's f$%$ing awesome and makes those burned out items way more useful in a very dynamic way.

Absolutely! The item doesn't have to be charged to be used for crafting an augmentation. Keep in mind, though, that several augmentations require batteries to craft.

Ohh goody goody! My players are already looking to buy cylex rounds to help them sift through an old dungeon. Having recently lost 3 players they feel that projectile C4 will help them even the odds.

Also I'm waiting to see if the priest decides to stick a chainsaw on his bo staff. Like 8 types of excited.

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K another question. When using augmentations on ammunition do you apply it to a set of 50 pieces of ammunition like you do with magical ammunition or do you use some other number?

Like if I want to make Cylex crossbow bolts does it end up costing me 162.3 gp per bolt ([5+300+7810]/50)?

Second can you use expended technology (timeworn objects without charges) to produce augmentations?

Like could I take a timeworn chainsaw, use it till it powers down, then work what's left into my glaive? Cause if so that's f@@+ing awesome and makes those burned out items way more useful in a very dynamic way.

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k rolling through this and really digging it thus far. Love a 3rd party book focused on a lot of well dense, well designed mechanics and the tech tree idea is perfect for it, like Civilization for kingdom building.

That being said quick question on the plastics. Does the doubling cost to masterwork just double the masterwork cost (i.e. 300 gp to 600 gp for weapons) or the whole price including cost of base item?

Second does salvage setting plastics increase the value of ALL plastic items by x4 or just plastic in general? Like is 1 lb of plastic worth 4 gp AND a suit of plastic studded leather cost 100 gp or just the former?

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Adam Daigle wrote:
Sorry, there are no new drakes in this volume's bestiary.

Lol well isn't that just being a horrible tease. I've got an ecology of drakes article in Hill Giant's Pledge, an excellent front cover with a Forest Drake in Heroes of the Wild, and yet NO NEW DRAKES AT ALL THIS MONTH. This makes me a sad Godzilla monster T-T

All that being said still excited at the prospect of a new Protean to add to the list. It has been WAY too long since the kings of chaos have gotten another member.

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Marco Massoudi wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Anything interesting in the ecology of drakes article?

It is 6 pages with a picture of Lini and Droogami discovering a drake nest and being attacked from behind on the first.

On the second page is a general scholaric view of them followed by the ecology (how old do they get...).
Page 3 describes their society and page 4-5 lists the different variants while page 6 gives 8 sites on Golarion where specific Drakes live - from Absalom to the Worldwound.
The last is most interesting for me as it gives some cool examples of drakes with class levels.

It also contains a new full color drawing of a Forest Drake and a Flame Drake.

Nice, did we get any new breeds as well?

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Woot! Reprints! With Iammars here that I wish you could reprint the cards with it (since those really do help make transitions easier) but I'm still happy to see these get reprinted! Make my gifts list easy this June.

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Lol also now I see the Moot of Ages as Druidcon. Thanks Paizo XD.

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K so question about the Tribal Hunter feat, do both participants need to be initially in a flank to trigger the ability or is that a typo?

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default wrote:
What about just allowing things like vital strike or cleave on a charge instead?

I would but that has the added effect of potentially making a choking bottlneck feat wise (where everyone needs them in order to use the feat well) or people just continue to avoid using them since the current meta incentivizes just chilling and waiting for the other melee hitter to get into reach of you.

I'm thinking I'd let vital strike happen on charges and the other option. That way the incentive to use a charge strategy is still increased AND investing in builds like Vital Strike become even more valuable since, as a single attack Vital Strikers effectively get all the benefits of the modified charge but none of the original penalties because they invest feats into that build.

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Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:

If you're interested, there' s a good solution to iterative attacks in the trailblazer supplement. That'so your real enemy, it seems.

I took pummeling charge and pummeling style with my monk. Absolutely amazing feats, btw.

Yeah I have a buddy who runs a pummeling style monk archetype warpriest (I forget the name of the archetype offhand) with pummeling and he kills it with it.

I will have to look into the trailblazer supplement, you have a link to the specific one at all?

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Owen KC Stephens wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

K so I just got my copy of this and am still pouring through it but I've gotta say this now.

Whoever thought up the beastkin trait, bravo! That is an amazing trait and an excellent example of what a trait is supposed to be both mechanically and thematically.

This makes me curious. What makes the Beastkin trait so amazing?
It's a social trait that allows you to be raised by wolves. Or apes. Or axebeaks. Or panthers...

Sort of but to expand, it allows you to do this by giving you the mechanics to fill that out. You building tarzan? Beastkin grants you a survival buff and the ABILITY TO TALK TO GORILLAS! Raised by wolves? Same. The trait matches whatever creature you want your character to be from. F$&! now I want to make a half-orc who was raised by T-Rexes or an elf who's a part of a pack of deinoychus as some crazy options! Like seriously an elf hunter who can do raptor calls a la Jurassic Park to his pack of raptors is just TOO DOPE to pass up.

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K so I just got my copy of this and am still pouring through it but I've gotta say this now.

Whoever thought up the beastkin trait, bravo! That is an amazing trait and an excellent example of what a trait is supposed to be both mechanically and thematically.

Shadow Lodge

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Cap. Darling wrote:
What options do High level martials have beside charge? I still dont undestand.

Currently not many. The issue is that once you get past like 5th and full bab starts happening there is really not much reason to charge. At most the charge just gives me a single attack with a minor bump to hit while simultaneously granting my enemy ALL of it's iterative attacks should it not be dead once it's turn comes around. This setup creates a dynamic where it can often be far better to just wait for most targets to juts come to you through either a move or a charge and have you full attack them instead, often following that up with a 5ft step to either get out of reach and set up a flank. Now don't get me wrong, the dance once combat is entered is fine with me but the idea that in most circumstances charge isn't really a good option once you get past 5th bothers me and feels like something that can be corrected to make it more fun and rewarding given the risk.

Hopefully that helps (I'm running on an all nighter so I'm kind of running on fumes atm lol).

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Cap. Darling wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:

Why do you want folks to charge more?

The idea is to try and make it a more enticing offer throughout the leveling process. As it stands charging is a viable option when entering combat at low levels before you get multiple attacks since it allows you to seize the initiative in certain fights and the extra bump to hit can sometimes be what you need to land that hit. Unfortunately as you level up and it starts to fall off, as the need to full attack for multiple hits becomes more important than the ability to close for combat. That always felt wrong to me as the idea of charging the opponent always feels like something that should be a viable option at all levels for those classes that would use it and should remain an enticing choice throughout level progression, encouraging people to use it but at the same time having its own unique drawbacks and risks for the reward.
So what you want is a way to move and attack more than once? Or is it important that it says charge on the paper? The main advantage is the double move part of the charge i am all for options that give martials options for more than a 5 foot step with more than one attack. But i think i would go more with a extra 5 foot step pr 5 bab or somthing like that.

Sort of the former. It's meant to be a way to keep charge a viable option at higher levels once you start to get multiple attacks and entice players into using it by creating a reward of extra attack AND mobility but also the risk of easier hits against you vs. just moving and taking a single attack.

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Bump

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I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

I was going to mention the Occultist, save that what I offered above is even more ideal.

Witch wouldn't be bad, either. Neither would Dreamspun Sorcerer.

Lol wizard also really isn't bad nor the music bloodline for sorcs and you just play it as all the stories are the mad ravings of an elder god piped into his skull. He talks a lot about how so much of his work is inspired by nightmares.

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Bard Archivist or use the open Beta Occultist. Race is human and take the campaign feat from UC that comes from going insane.

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Koshimo wrote:

Personally I like it, but I personally would say only -1 per additional attack because a twf or monk would end up at -14 to ac pretty quickly

also a provision that pounce removes the additional negatives

or make it a two feat tree first feat lowers the AC negative to -1 per additional attack second feat gives pounce earliest available lvl 12

Yeah right now the monk is part of why I've been favoring option 1 since it favors monks more so than the other one where it essentially gives you a 0 AC for a +2 to hit. The former gives them more power since the charge becomes more valuable since they can still end up with double the number of attacks compared to any other class if they flurry.

I'm wondering if I should just give monks the ability to ignore the stacking penalty or take an aforementioned reduction. Lol again monks, the masters of corner case rules.

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Awesome. Fat Goblin do you guys do review copies or anything like that? I was interested in adding this one to my review roster.

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Nohwear wrote:
Some stuff, including environment based kits and herbalism based alchemy. There is also stuff for Ultimate Campaign.

What ultimate campaign stuff pops up?

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Cap. Darling wrote:

Why do you want folks to charge more?

The idea is to try and make it a more enticing offer throughout the leveling process. As it stands charging is a viable option when entering combat at low levels before you get multiple attacks since it allows you to seize the initiative in certain fights and the extra bump to hit can sometimes be what you need to land that hit. Unfortunately as you level up and it starts to fall off, as the need to full attack for multiple hits becomes more important than the ability to close for combat. That always felt wrong to me as the idea of charging the opponent always feels like something that should be a viable option at all levels for those classes that would use it and should remain an enticing choice throughout level progression, encouraging people to use it but at the same time having its own unique drawbacks and risks for the reward.

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Imbicatus wrote:
Rosc wrote:


It's just a shame that anyone with Glory and Sun domains blow Pharasma right out of the water when it comes to purging the unliving. But hey, what other deity lets Good clerics pick up the Death domain?
Damerrich and Lythertida both give access to it.

Core character which makes them illegal choices.

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So I was messing around with charge looking for more ways to entice players to use the maneuver especially as you scale up in levels and had a few ideas I wanted to run by people and see what they thought.

Option 1: A creature gets half their attacks rounded up whenever they charge, increasing the AC penalty by 2 for each additional attack.

Option 2: When taking a charge a creature may make as many attacks as they are able, receiving a cumulative -2 penalty for each attack they make at the end of the charge.

People feel free to chime in and let me know what you think, do you like them, do you hate them, what feels weird, and what are some of the potential exploits that might come about. Any help is greatly appreciated.

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Anything interesting in the ecology of drakes article?

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Is anyone else really digging the new slant on Sky's dad as less evil and more just a mentally unstable man prone to losing his lucidity ala Ice King?

It makes him so much more compelling as this dude who does really love his family and is or was good but thanks to what's happened to him he can't keep himself straight and can't really understand what's going on. Makes the idea of them trying to stop him nonviolently make way more sense.

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Any new mundane gear?

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Aelryinth wrote:

Note that Haste is automatically countered and dispelled by Slow, although its not anywhere as near as popular a spell.

==Aelryinth

Yeah and that's the issue. Since most counterspelling like that is generally either super niche or just uninteresting at best or really sub par at worst. Like the slow counter isn't used because just turning haste off is boring, the targets are just debuffed back to normal meh. Meanwhile if I drop haste on my own team we now have a BUNCH of new options to play with in our tool box and even if I use it to remove a slow I'm still getting all my old options back.

Haste really needs some mods to make it more like the divine spell talked about upthread. Something that makes the buffs either more situational, or more cost to selection. Like say having to pick which buff you want each round or some risk like a time shudder mechanic.

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Melkiador wrote:

The thing about verminous is that you can treat your companion as disposable without coming off as a completely horrible person. Your mantis is mindless. It doesn't love you. It doesn't "trust" you. It's just a tool.

Of course you don't have to play your verminous like that, but it's totally valid.

Ehh I think you could do that with any animal companion depending on your story and the culture you're coming out of. Like if I'm an orc hunter from belkzen who rocks fighting dogs or really any military in general they are likely to not care as much about sacrificing my pet to keep myself alive since they likely prioritize the life of the hunter over the life of the pet which takes longer to train and is more expensive and the mechanics kind of enforce it. Your new pet always starts at your level regardless of the circumstances you got it at.

As for a Vermin you could also play them as loving you it's just in a way that is likely alien to anything a hominid creature like most player races would understand. The best example with a vermin might actually be the fact that it decides to protect you at all considering the solitary nature of most vermin. Creatures like mantises, spiders, and scorpions are naturally solitary so them wanting anything to do with you let alone defend and potentially die for you is probably the greatest sign of their devotion they could think to give. As for more social bugs you could get other stuff, like bees bringing you honey all the time or ants trying to defend the queen (whatever that might be).

Now all that said you and your GM can treat it however, I'm just saying that no animal is more or less a tool it's just based on perception.

Now the biggest issue I've usually found with Verminous Hunter is building a strategy that doesn't involve a lot of grappling. That and the fact that the vermin list is way too small considering all the cool giant bugs they've put out. Where's my Ant Lion that turns into a flying monster?! lol

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wraithstrike wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

b

Endure Elements (starting at FIRST LEVEL any plots having to do with enduring the elements, ala Dark Sun style stuff or whatever, gone. Even for non-casters. 50 gp for 24 hours of nope in potion form.)

I had overlooked this spell. 24 hours of "F**@ you desert" is not going to allow me to run this Dark Sun campaign like I want to. I might have to nix this spell.

As someone who runs an environment heavy campaign I can say that this spell isn't as bad as it sounds. My party does prep it or have it on a wand everywhere but it means they either have to dump cash for the wand or fork over a 1st level spell slot in order to stay like that all the time and at 3rd-5th that is pretty steep. Also the fact that it's limited to a set temperature range (-50-140) means if you want to go with really severe weather conditions they are still screwed. Beyond that at higher levels worrying about weather in the ways that endure elements helps with though is largely useless since in most circumstances you're looking at around 3 nonlethal in winter to 2 nonlethal in high summer heat per hour and doesn't really put most players out and likely shouldn't.

Hell if you really want to see something put a weather issue out of business just let a player roll up an undead blooded sorcerer. He gets cold 5 and DR 5/- vs nonlethal meaning that at the very least all but the worst cold dmg is going to get shrugged to him just ignoring all weather based damage since it's written as not only nonlethal but not high enough to penetrate any of his defenses.

As for OP spells though mine is haste. It's way too good for what it does and is just boring design wise since the only real counter to it is to throw haste on your own guys and just negate the bonus. At that point you might as well remove the spell and build in haste like bonuses to all the classes rather than relegate all teams to having it once you hit 5th+. I've found I like the Time Shudder spell out of ACG much better since though it doesn't change anything about haste's abilities it adds some form of risk to going for its abilities that creates for a more interesting spell than just, "My whole team is buffed up now".

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Rub-Eta wrote:

Friendly reminder to keep this thread civil. I don't know the general consensus about the Hunter class and I don't want this to turn into a slam thread.

What I want out of this thread is some help to understand why you would ever pick this set of rules above any other class. Are we looking at a new kind of game play (Ex. the way you act in combat)? What builds are we looking at? What's enabled within this class that isn't in any other? Is there anything that eases up some older builds from older classes within this one?
What roles can Hunter fill?
To me it seems like a weaker Ranger but with much more focus on the Animal Companion and more spells. Or something like what the Druid is to the Cleric but to the Inquisitor/Warpriest. So, what can we get out of this?

Something I'm seeing that looks fun is martial proficiency in a 6th level spell caster.

Umm when I first saw them in the Beta I had 0 interest in the Hunter since they really didn't do anything better than an inquisitor with the animal domain. Since then though they seem to have come more into their own in the final product and have found more of a niche.

I like them best in games where the occurrence of druids is lessened and the Hunter can fill a cultural role of something like either an inquisitor or ranger/cavalier with a focus on cooperation with your animal companion rather than just flat combat power coming from just the player character. I also like them as nature priests with their connection to an animal companion, animal aspects, and more advanced magic options (as compared to the ranger) having them become more prominent nature priests in most nature societies.

As for builds I'm partial to going verminous hunter archetype, grabbing a preying mantis, and then focusing a grapple build for my animal companion while I go ranged picks and sniping. I use the mantis to engage and give it worm aspect or Leech to either fast healing tank or stack bleed (usually the latter then the former) while I move around picking of stragglers, mooks, or throwing hate on it's grappled target. Wanting to build it as either a ratfolk or dhampir for pfs but right now there's either no good way to give me a firearm progression for the ratfolk or I need the dhampir boon.

The one issue I have is whether or not to give my vermin an Int so it can pick up feats or to leave it mindless to avoid mind effecting effects.

Hope that helps man.

Ohh they also aren't that bad if you are looking to play something like a nature focused version of a summoner, where you the character are not as powerful as your companion and fill more of a support like role in the relationship, with you throwing buff spells on yourself, the party, and the animal companion while they lay down the hate. You meanwhile often run around the back row, popping off shots, throwing some area denial, or generally bogging down targets to set up picks for your party. And you get to do all of that with full martial proficiency which is always nice.

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Hey is the first 10 thing still in effect here?

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I'm surprised we aren't talking more about the Mr. Hyde and his wife revelation:
You know the whole thing that Hyde didn't just lose his wife and daughter but PUT HIS WIFE BACK TOGETHER before going out for revenge. That was so cool and it tells us way more about his character than we already knew and I'm excited to see them cover more of that stuff from his life.

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Spiral_Ninja wrote:

Iris is being portrayed rather poorly, though I suspect it's more the writers than the actress. The issue, as I see it, is that currently, Iris has 'plot armor'.

Flash fans from the comics know her arc; reporter, marries Barry, murdered by R-F/Zoom, is actually from the 30th century, is saved by bio-parents, Barry joins her in the future, they have twins...

Now they MAY be altering that arc, but they have to lead up to it slowly so as not to trigger nerd-rage. Meanwhile, they're not sure what to do with her.

So, she's portrayed as an idiot! Sorry, but why does a cop's daughter automatically think 'he's cheating on me' rather than 'something's wrong at work'?

Which is why she seems so poor at her chosen profession. "Are you working with the Flash?" Um, read your own papers, Ms. investigative reporter.

At the same time, she DOES need to be brought into this (btw, Eddie is right on this!). If for no other reason than the entire group are such hideous liars! I don't blame her for being P.O.'d.

I think the plot arc here is to have her start snooping on her own due to the 'protect her' conspiracy. This leads to the confrontation with RF shown in the previews. Eddie tries to save here and is -updated- by his descendant and given a choice; work for me/protect me while I deal with Flash, or she dies (oh, and btw, she'll marry him not you if he lives), which explains his shooting other cops.

Yeah I'm with you that the writing for Iris is atrocious. I mean seriously how does the cop's daughter slide past the whole "crazy s~+~ at work" option and straight to something as asinine as, "he's cheating on me"? I mean seriously THEY HAVE A WHOLE TALK ABOUT THE TOLLS OF THE JOB WITH HER AND BARRY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE EPISDOE THAT TALKS ABOUT HER EXPERIENCES WITH HER FATHER DEALING WITH IT AND YET SOMEHOW THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE ALL THE OTHER CRAP THEY DUMPED ON US BEFORE ABOUT THAT ARTIFICIALLY CONSTRUCTED DRAMA!

Lord that drives me crazy. Honestly they could have gotten away with some of it if they gave us more scenes with just those two of them to set up the situation at hand or hell just show this is more of a side effect of her not trusting his what she's been told about her bosses disappearance and all of this just being a reaction to that. But instead we get this terrible writing.

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Quick question: So when using the abolitionist boon for Liberties Edge, is it safe to assume that for one encounter just means that single fight rather than for the rest of the scenario correct? If so what happens if you proc multiple encounters at the same time and then call forth your freed rabble? Do they stay till the entire fight ends or do the poof once one of the original groups is handled?

I've got a pretty good idea on what the answers are here but getting confirmations one way or the other can help nip table conflicts in the bud early.

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I think the answer just depends on the character you want to play and the relationship between you, your GM, and the way they mess with alignment.

If you want to play a dude who is evil as sin but thinks he's a good person (I slay goblin babies so they cannot get the chance to harm others kind of deal) you can. So long as your GM is on board and you make that character interesting and engaging to you as the player, the GM, and your party.

Second it kind of revolves around what your GM wants to do in their game and how they use mechanics to put that. Like in my home games I have players punch out the alignment they think their character is and put it on the sheet and then I keep track of what it is as they play. We usually have a sort of training curve at start where I will restate something back to them or help them understand where certain actions fall on the alignment spectrum but from their I track it and they find out when it comes up. Makes the detect alignment spells both more useful since it's the most definitive answer you'll likely get but at the same time makes fiendish monologues more tempting when they say stuff like, "Look don't trust that spell, you register the same and yet you're doing the right thing correct? Trust me."

But again all that works because it makes alignment work well for me and my players. In other games the big beacon of alignment likely might be what the GMs and players want.

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Actually it's likely priced much closer to glass if it's not plated since even at 5 gp a pound a lot of cold iron gear quickly becomes more valuable as its raw ingot form instead of as a weapon. A cold iron mace would be worth 40 gp as ingots vs the 12-24 gp you would get for it on the open market even if priced like silver. This issue still scales even with weapons that aren't completely metal like say a Bardiche which, even if you assume the head is only half its weight still has said head coming out as being worth like 9 gp more as ingots than the item you bought it as. Really the math breaks down with most of the weapons that have a high weight and a low cost, particularly the metal hafted weapons or many of the two handed weapons and is even worse at the current price point. Sticking it at like 1 gp per lb removes about every case of this that causes problems and still puts it at 10 times more valuable than iron which feels more realistic than the 50 times value when priced like silver or the 500 times as it's written now considering it's uses.

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Peet wrote:

The thing about cold iron is that if you melt it down it is no longer cold iron - it becomes normal iron.

Cold Iron:

PRD wrote:
is forged at a lower temperature to preserve its delicate properties.

Heating it to melting point will obviously negate it's "cold" property.

It is never laid out whether the weapons are plated with cold iron or simply made out of cold iron. However, given that cold iron is supposed to originate in the darklands, I imagine there wouldn't be a *lot* of cargo moving from the darklands to the surface, so I's be cool with saying they are plated. Maybe just the edge is cold iron but the rest of the blade is steel.

Also remember that a hafted weapon like a mace is part wood.

Nah, as the description says it's still heated to shape and temper and considering you can buy and sell it by the pound (which we know is done in ingot form mostly since they present them as such) then we at least know it can be melted down at a certain temperature and still retain its properties it just likely doesn't survive high heat well. As for the plating I'm willing to see that but if that were the case I think we would see a reference to it in the description like we do with alchemical silver referring to it. My guess is that it's a mistake on the part in the trade goods section and cold iron should be priced much closer to silver. It's the only other special material that doesn't require the item in question to be masterwork and considering it's other restrictions likely makes it a novelty choice at best to everyone who uses it save like demon and fey hunters. Otherwise how else do you explain it only costing like 24 go to get a mace or of it plated or otherwise? Hell that actually makes a cold iron heavy mace CHEAPER than a silvered one. That really makes me think the raw material is mispriced.

As for maces, a mace is actually a metal hafted weapon, usually composed of one solid piece of metal that is shaped into the final product. It's part of what separates them from morningstars and makes them so expensive by comparison, often keeping them out of the hands of common folk and making them weapons of richer men. Also it's why we have metal hafted weapons on the item health chart, it's a reference to weapons like maces and the battle aspergillum.

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So I have to ask is the value of raw cold iron compared to its weight a misprint or are cold iron weapons plated with cold iron like silver? As it stands with the current values for cold iron and assuming that cold iron weapons are solid cold iron something like a cold iron heavy mace goes from a being worth 24 gp to 400 gp when melted back down into cold iron nuggets. So is it misvalued and needs to be something more like silver by weight or is it a plating item like alchemical silver?

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If I throw someone with a bullrush into a wall do they take damage and if they do does the wall as well? And can that break the wall altogether and send people through it and continue the bullrush?

Like if I bulrush someone into a rotting wall can it break the wall and have him continue on?

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Komoda wrote:

I don't understand the logic that you can't drop into a chair but you can drop to the ground. Both leave you in a position that you can still fight, so neither are reckless actions.

I have "plopped" into hundreds of chairs that haven't fallen over. I can't think of one instance where I dropped prone that I have done it faster than I could sit down. Knocked prone, that happens pretty fast!

If I were to tactically stand from a chair, in most cases I would do so with enough force to either start into a sprint or kick the chair out behind me as to keep it out of my way. Either way, I don't see it taking very long. And I absolutely can keep my arms free to defend myself, unlike standing from prone which requires hands or some type of aggressive body movement to due quickly.

I am not really advocating for a certain action economy, but the logic that it takes LONGER and more effort to sit than it does to drop all the way to the ground baffles me.

The idea is that it takes longer in a combat situation not necessarily a noncombat one. I've thrown myself into a seat many times as well but I'm willing to bet most if not all of those times for the both of us were not while someone was trying to hack us to pieces with a machete. The increased action cost is again to represent and further enforce the buff. You are dropping into a kneel and shouldering the weapon to give yourself a more stable platform to shoot from, doing so requires that you not just suddenly drop a few inches but doing so, shouldering the weapon, stabilizing yourself, and then following up with the aim and fire. The latter 2 sound like 3 seconds for your standard action and the former sounds like something a professional would do in 3 seconds of time rather than in a span of time that is meant to be too small to measure.

As for the longer logic I would put the dropping prone at it doesn't really take you the person much time since dropping prone is basically an act of gravity and since the target is well earth you don't usually have to worry about missing it. Also from prone you often end up in a more detrimental position in most pathfinder games since your AC and Atk vs. melee attacks takes a beating, you can't fire bows from prone, the AC bonus is only at range (which often gets closed quickly), your movement speed decreases to 5 ft which provokes, and standing provokes an AoO which hits at your prone AC. Meanwhile as far as we know from kneeling your only big loss is -2 to melee. You don't lose AC, hell in RAW as it stands you don't even lose any movement speed to remain prone (which feels off to me). As it stands it might arguably be better in most situations since though the buff is smaller your penalties are also way less harsh.

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PrinceDogWaterIII wrote:

Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons

Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield, and +10 to the item's hit points.

Give me a moment to actually cite the source from a core rule book.

Edit: Page found in Core Rule Book, 175. Table 7-12 Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points

Yeah I know that part, the question was whether or not the enhancement bonus was also treated as part of the armor bonus when filling out hp.

I.e. a suit of +1 studded leather having 30 hp because it has an armor bonus of 4 which is multiplied by 5 and then has the +10 added because of enhancement after that.

All that being said though I think you are right and the enhancement bonus is ignored since it is an enhancement bonus to armor that stacks with it rather than acts as an increase to base armor.

Still I would love to have a dev look this over and verify the logic of it all.

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Also with all that being said I'm excited at some of the combos I'm going to get to pull with this now.

Can you say guards in a watch tower kneeling behind cover? +4 AC and a +2 on ranged, my low level guards just got a lot meaner.

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RedDogMT wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
RedDogMT wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
...A popular answer is 'free action to kneel, move action to stand from kneeling, does not provoke'.
That is the most reasonable way to handle kneeling and sitting.
The theory I was working under was that it was a move action to drop to a kneel (since it is considered the same action as sitting) but you could do it as part of your move, allowing you to move your movement and drop into the kneel at the end. Haven't worked out whether or not it provokes yet but I'm thinking yes.

Hey doc, do you have a link/reference to where it says that sitting is a move action? I am not nay-saying you at all, but if there is a reference, it would be nice to have.

If you think of a move action being around 2 to 3 seconds, taking that amount of time to kneel or sit would be a bit excessive. A free action 'feels' to me to be more accurate.

I should also point out that D&D (Next) currently cites that sitting or kneeling is a free action...and while I am not very familiar with that system, they still use a similar Standard Action/Move Action structure for their combat. In this situation the two systems are close enough draw a comparison from.

There isn't really a reference anywhere for what action it is to sit as far as I know but the most intuitive answer to me is that it's a move action that provokes an AoO. I mean I think about sitting down or standing up from a chair and firing as something a person could do in about 6 seconds but not much else. Also it makes more sense as a move action since you are not just letting gravity take you down into a sitting position but guiding yourself so you don't just land in a chair and send the whole thing falling over. Otherwise we are just looking at going prone.

From their it seems right that kneeling would have the same action economy since it is sharing the same mechanics as sitting (and would be silly to build one as mechanically better than the other based on the action economy cause you'd classify them differently then in buff and no one would use the weak one) and it follows a similar logic wherein you aren't just like dropping to your knees and firing bur taking the knee, centering your shot with your new position, and firing.

Also it keeps it from becoming a superior choice to something like going prone since even though it offers a smaller buff it can be used by archers with bows and theoretically by someone with cover. Keeping it a move helps mitigate players from potentially entering cover, kneeling and full attacking as easily unless they plan it better. It also prevents something like 5ft kneel kiting shenanigans where you could have an archer 5ft, kneel, and full attack ad nausea. With an AoO for standing and being unable to perform it as part of the move you negate the combo and up it's risk at close range while incentivizing its use further afield, which I believe is what people feel like it's supposed to be used for.

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DM Barcas wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Expanding on Theory:
I think what will happen is that his time travel battle with him will end with him undoing the damage Reverse did to the timestream with the death of the real Wells, meaning he survived into the future to build STAR labs. Barry seems the character who wants to try and save everyone when given the chance and considering his budding time travel powers I wouldn't be surprised to see him rush back and try to mend the crap that Thawn causes. Also it has slightly less chance of causing shenanigans for him since saving him doesn't directly effect him as much as say saving his mom might.
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Dragon78 wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

spoiler:
honestly I hope they keep Whitehall dead at least for the foreseeable future. Don't get me wrong he was cool while we had him but I feel like with Other SHIELD, Grant Ward, List, the Inhumans, Hyde, and whatever stuff escaped the Sandbox and what other elements of SHIELD/Hydra are still running around I think we have a solid roster of characters and threats to pull from for the foreseeable future. What could be cool though is having someone explain how he managed to get any sort of benefit from a Terragenesis'd human at all if he lacked the genes for it to begin with? I mean if it were possible you'd think Skye's dad would have pulled it off long before now.

Maybe it's just something like the GH serum where it just works the once or offers limited aid.

Ohh also is anyone else interested in finding out how the other Inhumans are prepped if you don't use a Diviner? From what Lincoln said it seems that the Diviners are either never used in normal transformations or very little at best.

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RedDogMT wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
...A popular answer is 'free action to kneel, move action to stand from kneeling, does not provoke'.
That is the most reasonable way to handle kneeling and sitting.

The theory I was working under was that it was a move action to drop to a kneel (since it is considered the same action as sitting) but you could do it as part of your move, allowing you to move your movement and drop into the kneel at the end. Haven't worked out whether or not it provokes yet but I'm thinking yes.

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Matthew Downie wrote:

There have been FAQ requests for that since 2009.

A popular answer is 'free action to kneel, move action to stand from kneeling, does not provoke'.

Really? This has been on the FAQ docket since 2009 and NO ONE has decided to answer it yet?! The thing is on the freakin' GM's screen! How the hell can you have rules presented in a game that is largely about tactical combat and then NOT EXPLAIN how they freakin work for at least 6 years!?!

Christ...

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Cthulhudrew wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
I'm having trouble buying Caitlin as a potential villain. She's just too damn adorable.

It's entirely possible that if they do have Killer Frost on the show, it won't be Caitlin. There have been something like three of them in the comics, as I recall (Snow being one of the more recent ones, IIRC created during "New 52").

In fact, that's what I'd prefer to see. Like you, I don't quite see how they'd have her believably turn into a villain and feel it would be a waste of a great character.

I think we are more likely to see the original Killer Frost before we see Caitlin as Frost. Likely Snart's sister will pick them up here soon after some accident with Captain Cold's gun.

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PrinceDogWaterIII wrote:
I thought each armor had it's own HP and then enchantment bonuses to the armor just increased the HP by a flat amount?

Sort of. You calculate the HP of armor by taking the armor bonus it offers and multiplying it by 5. Unfortunately they don't say whether or not you are supposed to include increases to that number brought on by things like magical enhancement.

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