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Kaiju, Mogaru

doc the grey's page

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber. FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,882 posts (2,907 including aliases). 15 reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 11 Pathfinder Society characters. 5 aliases.


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Shadow Lodge

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Did anyone else here notice that the Yithian Elder in the book only had 2 eyes even though it's description and the one on the cover have 3?

Shadow Lodge

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Codanous wrote:
My GM is going to be starting a Skulls and Shackles game soon and I was tossing around the idea of a Besmara cleric. I'm already planning on buying this when it becomes available but I just can't wait, can someone tell me about the cleric archetype, the Kraken caller, I think it is called?

Well sad news is that it does nothing with Krakens. You don't summon them, or become one, or anything cool like that. That being said you do get a lot of good ability replaces, swapping nature's lure for a version that works on aquatic/amphibious guys etc. The other thing is you get the option to grow tentacles and shoot ink with wild shape. I call it The Zoidberg Druid. You grow tentacles, flail them at the enemy, and when s*@$ gets bad squirt ink on them and WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP! away.

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Dragon78 wrote:

Inner Sea Races is about the campaign setting, they will more then likely not have the game stats for races in the book.

It would make more sense to have the Triaxian then the Monkey Goblin or Syrinx. Not that I would mind about getting any of them in the book. If I had to choose to get only one more reprint, it would be the Lashunta.

They only use art for male or female, not both. I would prefer the female one, in fact I like the art for the one in the Inner Sea Bestiary.

Well B1 has 11 races, B2 has 7, B3 has 5, and B4 has 10. So who knows how many B5 will have though I doubt it will be more then 11.

I know but considering that Lashunta's have totally different stats and vastly different physical characteristics it would be nice to see them both represented in the art. Also having some new are to replace the very "meh" work from people of the stars for male lashunta would be awesome and maybe give us something more associated with their original description.

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MMCJawa wrote:

yeah if the Ghoran and Android are both in, I sort of assume Monkey Goblins, Syrinx, and Lashunta are in as well.

With Skinwalkers plus the already announced new races, that's 9 right there, so might not be room for many more new races (especially since Shabti and Triaxians are also a possibility...)

Of course some of the above might also just get reprinted in Inner Sea Races, which might negate the need for them to be in Bestiary 5

Yeah I'm thinking we get something closer to the latter with Lashunta and the other very golarion specific races getting delayed or put into another product and the ones that have more broad, setting neutral appeal like androids & skinwalkers get reprinted into this. That said I wouldn't be surprised to see Lashunta's in B5. Here's hoping the pic for them is the male and female ones with the male looking far more bestial and hulking than the one we got in the stars book.

Shadow Lodge

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Dragon78 wrote:
Cool, they also mentioned androids, did they say this at an actual recorded event or was this "water cooler talk"?

Was what JJ told me when I asked them about it. It also makes sense for both the android and skinwalker to end up in this one. If they've announced the Ghoran which is from the same book as the Android it would be odd for them to not port it over as well. As for the skinwalker considering how much attention it's been getting it makes sense for it to get a port to a book where more people will be able to see it.

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ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Gars DarkLover wrote:
Question about this and future products: has the starting age thing been dropped or what?
I hope so, saves pagecount.

Seriously? Starting ages could be handled with one line per class that puts each class in the category of intuitive, self-taught, or trained. I doubt that they are that tight for space.

In a way, I agree with your idea. A suggested starting age would not go amiss, and help most people with getting a feel of their class in terms of experience. On the other hand, the call to adventure affects different people in different ways, coming in early-or much later on. So does the path to becoming an adventurer. Some of it is self taught, some of it can be instinctive, and some are trained over a long period of time. It is case by case in that regard. But your suggestion is a good one David. I do hope that paizo takes it on in some way.

Honestly I like to have it as a barometer for the amount of time most of these classes take in training if nothing else. Having some way preexisting formula that can be pointed to for new players that says "yeah, for dwarves it can take as many as 30 years of training to become to learn the basics of occult lore and training." Helps a lot when it comes to wrapping their heads around the in world consequences and commitments some of the classes would take to become serviceable in.

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I don't know of this has been addressed here but I think a lot of these feats have with poisons have a typo. Shouldn't they require Craft (alchemy) rather than Craft (poison)? The former is there one used in all other sources to make poisons and it seems odd to be defaulting back to a skill that hasn't seen use in print since 3.5.

Shadow Lodge

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Myth Lord wrote:
Everything from lovecraft gets a lot of love, they always shine on the cover and get the most beautiful of artwork. I wished the mythology and cryptid monsters would get the same amount of love.

For the covers remember they are looking for popular/recognizable creatures from tabletop and human fiction that will help sell the work. It's why B1 has Trolls and Goblins, B2 is the Jabberwock, B3 is Cyclops' and Graveknights (classic undead knight), B4 is Cthulhu, Nosforatu, and a big Ogre (aka Grendel), and B5 is The Grim Reaper, Alien Grays, and Deep Ones.

Trust me, there are some monsters in these I would love to see on the covers (Empyreal lords, robots, some of the dinosaurs) but the point of the cover is to make customers new and old look at it, recognize some of the content, and peak in/buy it to learn more.

Shadow Lodge

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Dragon78 wrote:

I am talking about the word Caligni, not the word darkfolk, should have been more specific.

Doc the grey, were did you hear we will be getting the Skinwalkers in this book?

If there is room for Derro/Grays then there is room for Skum/Deep Ones and Gillmen/Deep One Hybrids.

Heard it on the Gencon floor from a few of the Devs. Makes sense considering the Ghoran's are also getting printed up for this one and the Androids.

Shadow Lodge

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Kalindlara wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

I'll be honest - I'm not excited for deep ones, or their hybrids. And I normally love that stuff.

We have the skum/ulat-kini to serve as deep ones, and we have the gillmen to serve as their hybrids. Both From Shore to Sea and Wake of the Watcher use them as such (although less so in WotW). They worked perfectly for the role, and I'm not sure why we need the deep ones to replace them.

Hopefully once the book is out, there will be something to convince me. ^_^

My guess is to make sure they are in their and represented as other mythological creatures are and potentially give those of us who want more lovecraft a more accurate (and monstrous) option to play with.

I will say though I don't feel like Gillmen fill that niche since they are more associated with the Aboleth than the Skum and have more of a "Remains of the Fallen Empire" by way of outsider meddling than the "Awful, slavering spawn of idiotic man and a horrifying gods best forgotten" thing. I'm also readying to see Hybrids with an Int penalty and a bite attack.

Skum? Maybe... I'm not sure how much mythology is behind the deep ones, though, or how much more monstrous they would be. Based on Wake of the Watcher, skum are already immortal, or nearly so; one of the skum there is over 2,000 years old.

As for gillmen, "Low Azlanti" is usually their role. From Shore to Sea uses them somewhat differently, though.

Have you read either of those modules? They seem to use the skum (and in FStS, the gillmen) in almost the exact same way as Lovecraft's deep ones.

Yup, read both love both but also realize that a lot of that use has come about because until very recently the rights to a lot of Lovecraft's work have not been in the public domain, requiring developers to build new creatures wholesale or fill those roles with preexisting content. That's how we got the skum, koa toa of D&D, and a few others. But now with a lot of them falling back into public domain, a lot of devs who've been waiting are starting to stat these creatures out and seek to use them themselves so it makes sense that Paizo would take a crack at them as well.

As for mythos mythology I'm referring to them in the context of modern mythology and their position within the cultural zeitgeist. The Lovecraft Mythos is one of those modern mythologies that has been in the cultural consciousness for a long time but until recently has been under represented (likely due to it's not being in public domain) but now has started to see a rise in visibility. Hell their is now a whole area of Pluto named after one of Lovecraft's titular characters so I'm happy to see more of it represented.

Shadow Lodge

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Kalindlara wrote:

I'll be honest - I'm not excited for deep ones, or their hybrids. And I normally love that stuff.

We have the skum/ulat-kini to serve as deep ones, and we have the gillmen to serve as their hybrids. Both From Shore to Sea and Wake of the Watcher use them as such (although less so in WotW). They worked perfectly for the role, and I'm not sure why we need the deep ones to replace them.

Hopefully once the book is out, there will be something to convince me. ^_^

My guess is to make sure they are in their and represented as other mythological creatures are and potentially give those of us who want more lovecraft a more accurate (and monstrous) option to play with.

I will say though I don't feel like Gillmen fill that niche since they are more associated with the Aboleth than the Skum and have more of a "Remains of the Fallen Empire" by way of outsider meddling than the "Awful, slavering spawn of idiotic man and a horrifying gods best forgotten" thing. I'm also readying to see Hybrids with an Int penalty and a bite attack.

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Kthulhu wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:


I think what we are seeing is Paizo stealth-releasing Pathfinder 2nd Edition. Like you say, many of their recent "errata" is less about fixing mistakes than it is about actually changing rules.

Thats been going on in one form or another since they introduced the APG.

Seconded and to be fair something I much prefer. We live in an age where, thanks to digital distribution and the internet we can have developers clean up, repair, and update material to better match its original intent or better express the themes and concepts it was trying to create originally. I mean hell my biggest complaint with this one is that the Empyreal night STILL doesn't have a proper update to replace or fix its Voice of the Spheres ability.

Really I think it's a net good that we see these updates here and what's more that they are offered for free. It helps start bringing this game in line with modern expectations for much of our entertainment where we as consumers no longer have to deal with work that has major errors or obtuse wording that never gets resolved and leads to endless at table debates.

All that being said though I wish that these updates had a better layout that didn't require as much cross referencing to follow what's happening and were easier to find on the site. I'd much prefer a layout more like what Riot Games gives me in their patch notes and maybe a second page just devoted to links to all the latest updates in chronological order. Please Paizo, give me Riot updates and an Updates page!

However, it also kind of makes a RPG subscription not worth bothering with, since it guarantees you a 1st printing, which continues to become more and more obsolete.

Hell, that kind of errata policy makes buying a print copy at all pointless. You're far better off just getting the PDF, where you only have to pay once for a product that is kept up-to-date.

Actually I think it gives the subscription more value. With my subscription I'm getting access to the book up to two weeks early, the physical copy itself, the pdf, and access to any and all updates Paizo feels like doing for that book via the pdf (which I am also getting a discount on). Does this make the pdf potentially more valuable than it currently is? Yes, but that's a good thing. In the world we live the need for physical books has become less and less as budgets and space shrink and travel times grow. For me personally for example, when I go to pfs and play say my tiefling magus I don't want to have to haul my PFC, UM, Blood of Fiends, and whatever books I'm also pulling spells from to make sure I can play him when instead I can just load all my pdfs onto my phone and go. Having solid, cheap pdfs helps customers like me have their library of books but not need a carry on case to move them all or a storage unit to store them in when they are little used.

With more regular updates from paizo it also helps assure me as a customer that mistakes that have been found in the product will not be nearly as permanent as they once were and erode my confidence in their product lines. It means that if I say bought Ultimate Magic when it dropped, a book riddled with copy paste errors and still has rules issues throughout, that if I have the pdf they will clean it up and set things right for me without me having to wait X number of production runs before everything is addressed or corrected or worse, just have to eat the charge and hand fix it all myself.

Shadow Lodge

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Ohh my other question about Deep One Hybrids is if we will get a full Deep One and the Hybrids will function a lot like Changelings in a narrative/mechanical sense? Will they be at the half way point of changing or are these full fish men? Also I wonder if they will keep the immortality portion of the narrative as Deep Ones can live forever barring accidents, disease, or death by violent ends.

So many questions and I'm so excited to see them in print.

Also, from what I've heard we'll get the Skinwalker from Blood of the Moon in this Bestiary as well.

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Axial wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

o.0 DEEP SPAWN HYBRID 0.o

0.o 0 HD PLAYABLE DEEP SPAWN HYBRID 0.o

Hrk! My heart! May die of awesome!

Admit it, you're going to roll up a Deep-Spawn Hybrid as a Cleric or Inquisitor of Cthulhu! :)

First off it would have to be Dagon and no lol. Actually they are just a really interesting character option that's been in Call of Cthulhu (the game) forever and now with a lot of Lovecraft's work hitting public domain I can finally start seeing them in other games I enjoy like pf. I really want to build one as an aquatic sorcerer, maybe an antipaladin for way of the wicked, anything for Skull & Shackles, a hunter with an elasmosaurus companion (ohh or a gar), find somewhere to insert them into my home game, and generally continue this geek out.

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Myth Lord wrote:
I really hope Ravid finally made it. They said they didnt do gray and deep ones and they are even on the cover now so please also do ravid which didnt have a replace option such as derro and skum.

I don't think the Greys are replacing the Derro. They share some very loose narrative threads (if you read that one discussion in Horror Monsters Revisited) but largely I think they play to very different themes. Derro are truly psychotic deep dwellers looking to beat the sun by carving up your flesh. Greys are these mysterious, elusive space travelers studying humanity like cosmic naturalists, detached, advanced, and terrifying. Also hoping that if the Greys get the E in their alignment line its something like NE or LE to match their more organized nature.

Also I just want to put in my second for a therizinosaurus put to stats. That guy needs to be in print desperately and I'd love to see him get animal companion stats. Also Carnotosaurus.

Also also, vermin companion stats. The last time we got vermin statted as animal companions was in Ultimate Magic yet we've been getting more and more vermin as the bestiaries keep getting churned out and I think we can all agree that we want to see stats for a giant flea to mount our deranged goblin cavaliers on, a cicada for our druids of the seasons, or a cockroach for my ratfolk hunters in the bowels of kintargo.

Paizo, make this happen.

Shadow Lodge

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o.0 DEEP SPAWN HYBRID 0.o

0.o 0 HD PLAYABLE DEEP SPAWN HYBRID 0.o

Hrk! My heart! May die of awesome!

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:


I think what we are seeing is Paizo stealth-releasing Pathfinder 2nd Edition. Like you say, many of their recent "errata" is less about fixing mistakes than it is about actually changing rules.

Thats been going on in one form or another since they introduced the APG.

Seconded and to be fair something I much prefer. We live in an age where, thanks to digital distribution and the internet we can have developers clean up, repair, and update material to better match its original intent or better express the themes and concepts it was trying to create originally. I mean hell my biggest complaint with this one is that the Empyreal night STILL doesn't have a proper update to replace or fix its Voice of the Spheres ability.

Really I think it's a net good that we see these updates here and what's more that they are offered for free. It helps start bringing this game in line with modern expectations for much of our entertainment where we as consumers no longer have to deal with work that has major errors or obtuse wording that never gets resolved and leads to endless at table debates.

All that being said though I wish that these updates had a better layout that didn't require as much cross referencing to follow what's happening and were easier to find on the site. I'd much prefer a layout more like what Riot Games gives me in their patch notes and maybe a second page just devoted to links to all the latest updates in chronological order. Please Paizo, give me Riot updates and an Updates page!

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Ohh sweet updates to Ultimate Combat?!

*Looks for update to Empyreal Knight*

G#$!~$mit.

Shadow Lodge

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DM Sothal wrote:
That sounds more like you want Scaling magic items

Nahh that's a scaling increase in power, with cursed items the interest comes from being able to reduce the price of magic items while at the same time reducing their reliability in interesting and narratively evocative ways. A lot of times it's boring to just get a +1 scimitar for the 40th time but having my party find say a scimitar of Sarenrae that bursts into flames and holy might in the heat of the desert sun really adds something to the experience. Also it gives me room to make vanilla magic items like weapons and armor more scarce, valuable, and interesting if you can have markets full of these sorts of items. Now +1 goes from something that you can just find at a magical item shop to the things nobles can afford, built by master craftsmen for those who can afford weapons and armor unbound by the many rules and clauses magic usually brings to the table.

Shadow Lodge

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Does the Zombie created by the Occultist's Necromantic Servant still get his bonus hp from Toughness or does his feat get suppressed and it only gains half the Occultists hp?

Any official references would be greatly appreciated.

Shadow Lodge

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I was thinking more along the lines of things like +2 axes that only get their boon after killing a target or mwk scimitars that become +1 flaming during the heat of the summer. Those feel like thematically evocative additions to the standard +blank weapons of the world but I want to figure out how you would price that in the current setup.

Shadow Lodge

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Question for the Dev: Are Duergar supposed to be able to also use the telekinetic talents granted to them by their racial ability regardless of class or do they only get them if they are telekinetics? If they get them regardless of class when mixed with a kineticist do they use the same burn pool as the kineticist class burn pool or do they have a pool all to themselves?

Shadow Lodge

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Has their ever been any official word on how to price known cursed items with things like intermittent function and dependent function? I'm looking into it as a way to potentially give out items at reduced prices and add more thematic mechanics to items but want to see if any metrics have been dropped before I start.

Shadow Lodge

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Unfortunately no, I was hoping to find it in my inbox today after my classes started but that does not appear to be the case T-T.

Shadow Lodge

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JakBlitz wrote:
KahnyaGnorc wrote:
What I find odd is that Werebearkin descriptively are referred to as strong (the first transformation as a surge of strength for example), but have no bonus to Strength.
Was just thinking about this today.

I always thought of it more as like a stout thing, like their strength is more in their health and survivablilty than in their actual physical strength. More interesting to me since we've all seen the it's really strong trope played to death and seeing their innate strength expressed as something like Con is an interesting change of pace.

Shadow Lodge

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I'm in the middle of building a dwarven occultist NPC for my home game and I'm wondering what are some good feat choices? Right now I'm thinking on taking weapon focus with her primary weapon and power attack but I'm wondering if their are any other feats that more directly benefit the occultist's unique mechanics. If anyone has any ideas let me know.

If it helps she's a greatsword wielder with abjuration, divination, and necromancy as her 3 implement schools thus far.

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I would love to see a Therizinosaurus. Nothing like a giant herbivore with greatswords for fingers.

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Lol this has actually been something that's come up in the last few weeks as I've been building a lot of commoners for my home game lol. The short answer is 260 gp is fine and think of it more as the total value of everything they are carrying. After purchasing their main weapons, armor, and a pot or 2 my best suggestions are things like alchemical weapons and remedies like antiplague, alchemist's fire, tanglefoot bags, shard gel, and smelling salts.

Shadow Lodge

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Adam Daigle wrote:

Thanks, folks! I always thought that we were pretty clear about getting the right message out there. We put a lot of thought into how to present Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance, and it looks like for the most part it's worked.

@doc the grey: Sorry if anything we said misconstrued our plans. I hope you check out both APs because there's a lot of cool stuff in both of them. If you like gritty-fighting-against-the-man style urban adventures, I think you'll be happy with Hell's Rebels.

Thanks man and I am intrigued, I'm just sad that it's at least another year before that story potentially comes to light T-T. Hoping we get one soon though, as Dudemeister has pointed out we have a lot of APs that have been setting up Cheliax for that fall and doing some sort of Shattered Star esque finale to all of it around Council of Thieves, Skull & Shackles, and Hell's Rebels, and Hell's Vengeance could really be something.

Shadow Lodge

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Gisher wrote:
Here is another thread on this topic.

Much obliged sir. I was in the middle of building a Dwarven Occultist and had the same wth moment it seems others are having.

Shadow Lodge

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Are Occultists supposed to have summon monster on their spell list? As it stands they don't appear to but their resonant power seems to be aimed at aiding in things like Summoning. Any information or links to discussions or errata would be greatly appreciate.

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James Jacobs wrote:

I feel like we've been pretty up front and vocal about this AP not being the "You get to destroy Chelaix" AP... so I guess it's a good thing the player's guide also says as much to let players know what kind of AP it actually is.

If we DID do a "This is the AP where you get to take out Cheliax" I would love to know where we said that so that I can make sure we don't miscommunicate that in the future. But I can't think of where we might have said that, frankly.

AKA: We didn't intend to bait and switch, and I'm pretty sure we did not, and the Player's Guide is the place where we spell things out for players anyway, so I suppose that's a lesson in not making assumptions before the guide is out?

Sorry you feel like you got bait and switched, but I'm not sure I've ever actually baited anyone that this AP is anything more than a Kintargo-based rebellion AP.

I got a lot of it from the coverage from Gencon 2014 in particular some of the panels about it during that time. If you'd like I can see if I can find any of the coverage I'm thinking of and throw it to you later.

Either way getting my interest back up in this one might be difficult but I'm interested to see what comes of it. Again, something about the fantasy of running a rebellion meeting the reality of being an enemy of the state in said state has a lot of potential to tell some amazing stories of desperation and triumph especially when your enemies are some of the oldest schemers in creation. I'm just disappointed that it's not what it felt we were promised. I'm hoping to be surprised though.

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Does anyone know about equipping the undead servant for the occultist? Like if an occultist starts equipping his skeleton or zombie does it retain that gear after it dis corporates, do you have to equip it again, or does it follow general bestiary rules where it's considered proficient with the weapons you give it?

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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
I'll be honest I was hoping for something a bit more ambitious, but cleaving off a chunk of Chelish territory isn't too bad.

Yeah. I was chomping to see Queen Abrignail and her Pit Fiend companion in a pentacled throne room, spouting bile at my insurrection as we clashed swords in her burning castle at the end of this and from the sounds of it that ain't happening.

Again, still down to do a rebellion story (especially if it can get into the grit and desperation of that whole scenario, especially when devils are the foes) but I feel like I've had the bait and switch pulled on me.

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James Jacobs wrote:
doc the grey wrote:

Anyone else reading this and feeling like Hell's Rebels is kind of like an afterthought to Hell's Vengeance? Like I'm interested in what's going on in Rebel's but in like the first 2 pages it's basically saying that no this is not a fight Queen Abrignal and topple the Devils story, its what's going on while this other bigger, crazier story is going on far away.

Anyone else getting that?

Having spent nearly a year working on Hell's Rebels... I hope not!

That language is specifically in there to manage expectations and coach players into playing characters that are appropriate for the campaign. Members of the Glorious Reclamation are NOT appropriate for Hell's Rebels for two very good reasons:

1) They're lawful, and this campaign works best with non-lawful characters.

2) The rules for the Glorious Reclamation won't be out for another 6 months at minimum.

If what those words do for you is inform you that the Cheliax AP you really want to play is Hell's Vengeance and NOT Hell's Rebels, though... then the words are doing exactly what they're meant to do.

Well it's more like I was expecting to finally get a crack at House Thrune in a real way and potentially even a storming of Abrignal and her crew themselves from the year of build up towards this ap. As it stands we've done urban adventure (in Cheliax no less) and done the whole recapture the city and reclaim it for good already. From what had been reported through the last year I had gotten the picture that this would be the time where we get to see that fomenting distrust of Cheliax finally boil over into a full on, nation wide rebellion that would take us to the gates of Egorian and the Thrice Damned house itself, army of angry rebels in tow. Instead it seems we're getting this one contained story about what goes on in Kintargo.

Now don't get me wrong that sounds cool, but not like what it felt like we were promised. What's worse is it seems like a side story to what's going on in Vengeance and like the Shattered Star to Vengeance's Runelord rather than the 1st part of this 2 part narrative. Compounding this is that it seems as if the aforementioned war proper to take down Thrune narrative will be largely handled by the NPCs in the next adventure while PCs finally get a chance at putting the E in their alignment section. That again doesn't sound bad (I totally dig the idea of Paizo taking a crack at a FMG style Way of the Wicked AP) but just feels like another dodge of what has been discussed for the last year.

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Anyone else reading this and feeling like Hell's Rebels is kind of like an afterthought to Hell's Vengeance? Like I'm interested in what's going on in Rebel's but in like the first 2 pages it's basically saying that no this is not a fight Queen Abrignal and topple the Devils story, its what's going on while this other bigger, crazier story is going on far away.

Anyone else getting that?

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Snowblind wrote:
Malag wrote:

The above advice will work also, but I suggest not allowing dinosaur animals at all if you are a new GM and zip the problem from the start. PC's often take them as animal companions because of numbers only and little of it has to do with flavor. Dinosaurs are the strongest animals to pick from.

Adam

And then he picks a kitty instead. Which is a better choice than a stegosaurus anyway, so you just made the problem worse. Heck, kitties are the best choice period. The best dinosaur option(the Allosaurus) is actually a touch worse than a Big Cat due to the lack of rake (although they are pretty similar).

What he said. Also if he likes it and you're cool with it enjoy it. I've got dinos running around the hinterlands as enemies and animal companions and I can say it's a blast. They are far less terrifying than you'd think as animal companions and they can be such a blast when the players really enjoy them ^-^.

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I would also say the barding is likely to cost even more since with the unusual shape of the stego and his back plates it likely falls into that category of barding for unusual creatures, further increasing the cost.

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Handaxe Beak wrote:

Make sure his stego has taken the feats for light and medium armor proficiency or else it'll be eating a -3 to every attack roll it makes. (On second thought, animal companions only have one feat at first level unless I'm missing something?) I don't know about a feat that would give a creature DR4/-, and if it exists I'd like to see it.

As far as balancing fights goes, "an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals" unless the druid uses up a trick slot, so the stego will be mostly useless against undead, constructs, aberrations, etc until he does. Remember that you decide how his animal companion acts; the druid has to make his HA checks to influence his dinosaur pal's behavior and otherwise it acts like (maybe a particularly loyal) stegosaurus.

This. Plus remember that if his stego is large the barding should cost double, a large sum considering that is money coming out of his starting gold. Also make sure he has tricks listed that it knows. Making an animal (even an animal companion) do an action it is not trained to do requires the PC to make a DC 25 Handle Animal check as a move action and if they fail the creature DOES NOT know what to do and either does nothing or continues its last action. Remember they aren't like familiars or teammates with a 10 Int, they are animals and can only do or comprehend so many things before you lose them. So if he starts telling his stego to do a bunch of stuff he didn't teach it make sure to call for the roll. Also he needs to make these rolls even when it's a trick the creature does know, but the DC is 10 then and a free action with his animal companion. Still, if he doesn't have a +9 Handle Animal you've still got a chance of him bricking and the Stego not knowing what to do.

Finally, remember that the stegosaurus is an animal and as such is fights more simplistically and in ways natural to it's disposition. The Steg won't flank it will trundle into combat and whack things with its tail cause that's how it fights when it's gotta fight. If it's got power attack it leads with that and sorts out the "why aren't I hitting it?" part later so don't let it suddenly start doing some crazy tactical maneuvers like flank charging or herding targets unless your druid TEACHES IT to do that. Honestly the Animal Companion is also one of those character pieces that is also listed as something you as the GM should likely govern the actions of more than your player in combat both to help avoid this issue and to help emphasize the more animal like qualities of this particular partner in crime. Like Handaxe said, your druid makes the rolls but you in the end decide how it acts therein.

Shadow Lodge

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Something I was mulling over while looking at the services section of Ultimate Equipment but how much would it cost to get a channel energy from a town cleric and how would they offer their channeling services to the public?

My assumption is that it would be relatively cheap considering the expense to them is minimal and since it can effect multiple targets is often offered at certain times of day and involves participants paying to get a slot during that healing and said cleric channeling to heal them all at once. This allows them to help and collect tithes from the most people and prevent them from running out of channels when people line up outside the local church to have wounds mended.

But what do you guys think? Have you ever had this question come up in your game and if so how did you solve it, do you have a payment metric already laid out? I'm interested to see what people have gotten.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Want! Damn all these urban maps are killing my wallet.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Matt2VK wrote:

How "buffed" do you want them?

With that money and what it looks like you want to give them, pretty "buffed".

Oil of Bless Weapon for a squad of them.

Trait -
If Religious troops - The one that buffs Will Saves (brain dead this morning, can't remember name)

Reactionary is the always 'go to' default for players.

Believe there's a couple different traits that bump up the Aid Other skill to +3. If these are supposed to be professional troops, I'd pick one of these traits. Since troops are supposedly trained to work together.

Right now I wanted to get them about as solid as I could get them and get a sort of Tucker's Kobolds vibe going where in the right numbers, terrain, and use you could be terrifying. I ended up going with reactionary since with light crossbows they are looking at an 80 ft range and being well out of the reach of most Will save abilities from anything they're likely to get slapped with. Plus, the boosted init gives them a chance at an extra shot or 2 before the enemy closes on them in the worst case scenario.

After that I dumped a lot of the cash into some incendiary and thistle bolts, holy weapon balm, and I believe shard gels. Now they've got some teeth vs. low level threats that don't think about how to engage them.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Yuri Sarreth wrote:
Well I would suggest this is a moot point. If your character is smart enough to carry all unneeded right this second gear, ie rope, trail rations, spellbook and other such things in their backpack and since dropping an item like said backpack is a free action then it seems likely when entering combat that their current load would be light and no longer apply any penalty..

I wouldn't say all that since you can get into situations where you are encumbered and cannot dump your gear for one reason or another (you've got all the loot strapped to you, your pulling the cart full of loot up that steep hill, if I dump this gear I might not get it back, etc.) so I wouldn't say just dumping the backpack completely solves every problem.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

If people are looking for insanity rules geared for Pathfinder I'd suggest Tomes of Arcane Knowledge by Legendary Games. It came out back when Carrion Crown was still in production and is arguably one of the best conversions of the system up to a Pathfinder/power fantasy style game.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

Encumbrance penalties do NOT apply to attack rolls.

Armor check penalties DO apply to attack rolls IF you are not proficient.

There simply isn't any rule that states that encumbrance penalties EVER apply to attack rolls.

Also, you do NOT stack the penalties for armor and encumbrance.

We all know you don't stack the penalties for armor and encumbrance it says it in the rules for carrying capacity in like the first 3 paragraphs. The issue is the rules state that encumbrance is like wearing armor so the question is whether that interacts with armor proficiency should you hit that threshold?

Currently I don't know of any official answer that exists one way or another. You say it doesn't, he says it does, and we dance around in purgatory for all eternity. Right now I'll just build like it's true (which makes for some interesting build paths for these commoner conscripts) and see what pops up.

Now if you've got an official answer sitting somewhere or a page number to back it up it's a whole different story and I'd love to see them.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Paul Griffith wrote:

If he is carrying a medium load then he takes the encumbrance penalties for carrying a medium load. If he is not proficient with medium armor and he is wearing medium armor, then he takes the non-proficiency penalties. If he is doing both then I believe that he takes both penalties.

want
this
table
to
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Table: Encumbrance Effects
Load----Max Dex--Check Penalty-------Speed----------Run
--------------------------------(30 ft.)--(20 ft.)
Medium--(+3)---------(–3)--------20 ft.----15 ft.---×4
Heavy---(+1)---------(–6)--------20 ft.----15 ft.---×3

A character who is wearing armor with which he is not proficient applies its armor check penalty to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving.

So yeah these would both apply if you have both an encumbrance due to gear and were using armor you are not trained to wear. Different sorts of penalties come from both these conditions, so they should stack. So if you are not proficient with medium armor, and wearing that armor puts you over your maximum load weight and causes you to be encumbered then you would indeed take both of these as far as I can tell. I hope that was helpful and correct.

Yeah I think your right but I'd love to see an official ruling on it one way or another. I'm in the midst of building some crossbow wielding commoners and want to know how much I need to cut weight here. If anyone else has like a link or something to any dev answering this as well it would be greatly appreciated.

In the meantime I'm going to trim like they are screwed lol. Thanks in the meantime though man ^-^.

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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

If a character is carrying enough gear to be in a medium load and is not proficient in medium armor do those penalties apply to his attack rolls as well just as if he was wearing medium armor?

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Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
MeanMutton wrote:
1st level commoner conscripts? Ignore the chart. Give them piecemeal armor, a simple melee weapon, their crossbow and bolts, and a fighter's kit. The rest doesn't make sense for them to have. These are conscripts not adventurers.

Ehh I don't mind them with the gear. Pathfinder is a world where magic has effectively replaced science and has pushed them forward way more than even the basics of the period it's supposed to represent. Hell we don't even half heal packs as good as a cure light pot now and they can get them as a cheap item at any magic shop. It makes sense that a lord would give them a pot or 2 along with some alchemical gear to protect their investment in the conscripts, both as warriors in their army and as vassals who need to be strong enough to accrue tax money when they get home so the money doesn't bother.

On top if we wanted to get accurate to what just a commoner farmer could afford we'd end up with all of them wielding clubs and slings since a crossbow would be about a year's salary for a single character.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Alchemist fire

Cold iron bolts
Caltrops
Anti-toxin/plague
A hunting dog
Rope
Flour
Masterwork backpack

There are a lot of little things you can pick up that would be very helpful.

Cold iron bolts and alchemist fire are no brainers and can help a commoner overcome fights otherwise unwinable to him.

Man, how did I forget caltrops? The backpack should be covered in basic gear but I'll go check my math and make sure I've picked it up. Thanks much appreciated.

Have any ideas on a good combat trait for them?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

1st, the total gp value of all gear for a character of 1st level in an NPC class is 260 which, after buying the aforementioned gear has put them down to about 59 gp. If it helps think of this as gear they didn't necessarily buy all by themselves or all at once but rather stuff they have acquired over time or has been given to them as part of their role as conscripts.

As for traits they don't typically but considering their commoners in the world they live in throwing 1 trait at them to help give them flavor and a little punch somewhere won't hurt anything.

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