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Kaiju, Mogaru

doc the grey's page

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,986 posts (3,011 including aliases). 15 reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 11 Pathfinder Society characters. 5 aliases.


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Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Am I the only one a little confused by the history of the Intellect Devourers?

Like how...:
did the Intellect Devourers crash land an escape craft into Orv? Like did it just hit hard enough to get there, did it teleport, is there a big whole or crater somewhere that leads/led to that vault?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Woot Woot! My subscriptions are in my inbox! Goodbye academic responsibilities hello reading!

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Quick answers?

- Darkvision
- No speed decreases so you can mitigate the copper conundrum much better
- tons of good nonstat based buffs like boosted saves vs. poison & spells and boosted AC vs giants
- Good weapon familiarities with solid damage like battleaxes, warhammers, and heavy picks to hit with
- Good Con and Wis help you take more hits and spot bad guys sooner.

Now if you are looking to twf battleaxe and warhammer are solid choices for your main and then you can grab a shortsword for you side arm. As for the Cha penalty to feint you'll likely not need it as much as you think since you can get SA through surprise rounds and flanking. That said the biggest issues I can see you getting into are stealth speed (you're going to go 10ft to stealth so fast stealth is a must) and armor check penalties if you are hauling a bunch (which again effects stealth). Best counters to that beyond things like fast stealth are likely a good ranged weapon to open fights up like a heavy crossbow or Longbow to get that sneak early while you have distance bonuses to your stealth check and cycle into your melee. Second is to realize your stealth will likely suck if you are the one hauling everything out of the tomb and should probably invest in a handy haversack or bag of holding asap.

Beyond that you're pretty good, though if you wanna play like an assassin or damage focused build I suggest the slayer.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Contract Devil. He wants your soul and is willing to pay you whatever you want for it no matter how stupid that want is.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Contract Devil. He wants your soul and is willing to pay you whatever you want for it no matter how stupid that want is.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DM Beckett wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:

I'm sorry we must be playing different games.....

This debate is purely based around the protective benefits in terms of survival.....not in the infinite number of variables and tangents surrounding it.

Maybe, but it looks like you are also not taking into account some of the more obvious things that strengthen the Wis to AC Cleric as well, to show it as weaker. Mage Armor is a long lasting buff and really only costs you either 750 (Wand) or 1,000 (Pearl of Power).

If we assume a +2 Dex, +3 Wis, Wis to AC Cleric, that's a pretty comfortable 19 AC at level 1, (NOT 12th). No other buffs used. Sure, the Armored Cleric is going to (possibly) have a higher AC, but they are also taking other penalties to compensate for that and that absolutely does matter.

Silver Surfer wrote:
- I didnt say that armoured cleric wouldnt self buff did I? What I did say he would be far less likely to need AC and HP buffs since he will be less likely to be hit. The maths dont lie.

Why do you say that? At best they are absolutely equal in their need/desire to buff for combat, but at worst the Wis to AC Cleric is going to already be prepared regardless of circumstances, (such as waking up or being in situations where the can't reasonably wear armor).

Silver Surfer wrote:


- Like I said a cleric with WIS-AC will still only have a max base AC20 AT 12th level. Without serious investments he gets chopped to pieces.

Sure, and if a Armored Cleric doesn't bother investing either, their AC is going to also be low. Keep in mind that Clerics need a Light Shield or Buckler to cast if they wield a weapon, and a fair comparison to a Wis to AC Cleric that doesn't invest in AC is a Chain Shirt and Light Shield, (utilizing the same stats as above).

Armored AC: AC 17, T 12, FF 15
Wis AC: AC 15, T 15, FF 13(assuming Wis to AC works exactly like the Monk's)

+1 Armor AC: AC 19, T 12, FF 17
Wis Mage Armor AC: AC 19, T 15, FF 17

No Armor/Shield AC: AC 12,...

I feel your pain here man but I think this guy is having a very different conversation with someone other than us. He's hearing what he wants to hear and seems intent on not hearing others.

So with that in mind lets close this s&@% up and pivot back around. I'd actually love to hear some of your thoughts on the ideas I flitted through here earlier.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
You can't duplicate a key you don't have with Fabricate.

According to what? It'd require a craft check as per the rules, but otherwise there is nothing stopping it.

[

The fact that you don't have the faintest clue of the key's composition, or shape makes it Craft check Impossible.

Link for minor creation

Link for Fabricate
Link for Major Creation

So lets start with Fabricate. Sure, I don't know what this key is made of but I can safely assume it's not mashed potatoes and is likely something that could work in a lock. Second I can probably look at my key ring and get a good idea of what's common like say iron and give it a shot and I'm willing to bet unless my GM is getting really strict about how you read that spell I'll get it and poof I've got my key. But lets say you go strict, I could just make a skeleton key.

description for skeleton key:
Many door locks have a similar design and thus can be unlocked by a similar key. A skeleton key may be tried on any standard door lock that uses a key, even if you don’t have the Disable Device skill. You use the key’s Disable Device bonus of +10 rather than your own total; you cannot take 10 when using a skeleton key. The key only gets one roll for any particular lock. If the roll fails, the key is unable to open or close that lock. Inferior skeleton keys may only have a +5 bonus. (Ultimate Equipment pg. 72)

Now I've got 3 keys with a +10 to beat that lock for the price of one and if I'm feeling really clever a couple of those spare swords I picked up from those bandits, that picture of the key, my excellent craftsmanship (enhanced by crafter's fortune), and maybe an hour in a nearby mine might well let me make all the very accurate dupes I want. I have dozens of chances at that door now and all the spells I want for when I do it and since I'm good at making keys (Craft check remember) my skeleton keys are probably even better at opening this particular door than other ones (so they are likely a +12 or better).

Also

Or, I could do the same thing as before but instead of fabricate I pop minor creation, make the key out of darkwood (it's vegetable matter)and if I'm worried about it breaking throw Ironwood on it. I've got the crafting skill as established before, if my GM needs me to make a check I'll gladly do it (and probably succeed).

Or, finally I could just do major creation and make an adamantine duplicate (keys can be made of lots of stuff) at the door and use that. And if it doesn't work I can just take the thing and pry the lock out of the door like butter since adamantine ignores hardness less than 20.

Or or, I could ask what it's made of when I get the image and with any luck the guy who gave me the image will know gimme a description, a DC 10 Knowledge (dungeoneering) will tell me the metal, and my Craft skills will fill in any gaps I might have between here and fabricate.

All of that takes about 10 mins or so of in game time to execute, lasts more than long enough, and took me 5 mins to think up.

Also...

doc the grey said wrote:
a wizard could just look at a picture and fabricate it in 10 minutes or call on an earth elemental to roll through the floor and steal it..

came right out of the quote you pulled from me.

So again, that level of versatility can cause A LOT of issues at the table both for players, the aforementioned caster who wants to be challenged but have fun with his friends, and the GM who's trying to prep this thing.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Davor wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:

Bestiary 1 Shadow demons, just because of the mayhem that can be caused through possession.

Bestiary 2 Kolyarut are one of my favourites, going through the mortal world finding liars and oathbreakers and bringing them to Non-Good justice can be rather cool especially with all their at-will tricks. Really gets you thinking about how useful some spells are when a monster can use them an infinite amount of times.

Bestiary 3 Boogeymen can be brilliant, especially if you have them in the game way before it's level appropriate, giving people terrifying hallucinations while invisible, following events of the players because they are the first interesting things he's seen in a while and he's very bored.

Bestiary 4 Incutilis, cephalopod that poisons and controls a helpless creatures body would be cool enough, but these guys are more intelligent than most humans and have telepathy as well. Now from the art, my first thought was "okay these guys can crawl onto a boat, and take them over/murder the sailors in their sleep", but then I realized their puppet abilities work on "any helpless small or medium creature". Psychic cephalopod's who take over the bodies of sharks, dolphins, giant crabs and giant seagulls... etc. These guys have a lot of options available, so you get a lot of variety when using them against your players.

See, when I found out about the Incutilis, I immediately saw dark comedic value. My group encountered a bunch of Grindylows, one of which had found a "special hat" that made him super smart. Turns out the grindys were too dumb to realize what had actually happened, compounded by the fact that the manipulating a creature's body that you've just climbed into should be jarring. Between the broken speech and constantly slapping himself in the face with his own tentacles, the group has grown to... "like" this disturbing little guy.

I also really like the Seugathi. Magic missile wands, aura of confusion, and controlling confused...

S@@* didn't even see the reference to the Incutilus here. Love those little buggers, they actually are a major player in my home setting and are one of the races I really want to see a psychic variant made for. With the proper gear and circumstances the damage and reach these guys can have can be terrifying, and the s++* they pull with puppetmaster can have some really fidge horror implications depending on your interpretation.

Shadow Lodge

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Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Homebrew a lot of them can be found here and here.

Some of them are totally new, some or reskinned gods from other systems or real world faiths, a few are guys from real world mythology looked at through a different lense.

Probably my favorite part of my home setting is that the idea of gods as ascended humans is really foreign to a lot of the major cultures of the land with most of the religions of civilization having sprung up around saints and their clerics are powered by their devotion to those creeds rather than the direct hand of that individual. Meanwhile the powerful outsiders who do offer gifts for devotion are often mistrusted as they are often chaotic, evil, or both and thought to be too alien and disconnected from humanity to truly have their best interest at heart.

I also have a Demon lord who has a rather substantial splinter cult of CN followers who worship him as the the great absolver of sin, angrily bearing it all for mortals to have a chance to be washed clean of it.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Anyways, I've talked a lot but haven't really shown any big ideas or examples of my own so here's some pre-alpha stuff I kicked around after reading some things here. See if this helps anybody or gives someone some ideas.

New Cleric/The Priest:
Cleric (Overhaul): The hands of god, their mouthpieces on earth, and the seneschal's of their divine being’s will they are the face for these beings and bear the brunt of their blessings and their ire as well as the same loves and loathing from the mortals they interact with.

Alignment: Any, Those farther than One step from their deity suffer penalties to various abilities.

Hit Die: d6

BAB: 1/2 progression

Good Saving Throws: Will (maybe keep fort)

Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Clerics are proficient with all simple weapons, light armor and shields (except tower shields). Clerics are also proficient with the favored weapon of their deities.
Aura (Ex): Same as vanilla cleric

Channel Energy (Su): Same, save that every morning a cleric may select whether they channel positive or negative energy. This change also modifies whether they spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells.

Spells: Same save… A cleric regains his 1/4th his spells each morning through 1 hour of prayer. A cleric who seeks to regain his full spell retinue must find a site holy to his faith or of significant symbolism. Clerics may find such a place within 1d4 miles by making a Knowledge (religion, geography, history, or local) check with a DC equal to 15+the highest spell level they can cast and intend to regain. Clerics may reuse sites they are aware of. Clerics may instead opt to attempt to prostrate themselves to their faith, regaining all their spells by making a Knowledge (religion) with a DC equal to 20 + the highest spell level they can cast and intend to regain. They can use this ability once per day. On a failed check the cleric loses 1 piety for their insolence.

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A cleric who cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity's loses a number of piety points equal to the level of the spell. Clerics whose piety reaches 0 in this manner fall from grace, losing all spellcasting powers until they atone. Spells granted by a deity's domain circumvent this rule.

Orisons: Same save… a Cleric always regains orisons after 1 hour of prayer so long have not lost access to spellcasting.

Domain: Same save… A cleric’s domains also determine the miracles they can gain.

Prayer Books: A cleric may inscribe spells into holy texts called prayer books, encoding the messages of their faith for later recall with sacred reverence without the need to seek sacred sites to regain his spells. Any spell inscribed in his prayer book may be gained during their 1 hour of prayer. Praying for multiple instances of the same spell requires the cleric to make a Knowledge (religion) check with a DC equal to 10+the level of the spell+the number of instances they have already prepared/attempted to prepare it.

Adding Spells to a Cleric's Prayer Book: This in all ways functions like adding spells to a Wizard’s spellbook.

Spontaneous Casting: Same save… a cleric can spontaneously cast any of his domain spells. Whether a cleric can spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells is determined each morning when he regains spells and determines whether he will channel positive or negative energy. This choice must match the energy they are channeling.

Piety: The abstract concept of respect, love, and value that your deity places upon you, piety is both the measure of that and the tiny font of your god’s power he bestows upon you to do his will and perform miracles in his name. A cleric gains a number of piety points each morning after prayer equal to half their Wisdom mod rounded down. A cleric may gain more piety each day by performing rituals and sacrifices sacred to his faith, there is no upper limit on the amount of piety he can gain in a given day but all points are lost at the start of the next day (or when they pray for their spells in the morning). A cleric may spend Piety to cast miracles granted by his god or lose piety due to actions that do not align with the beliefs of his faith, a cleric may never spend more piety than he has but can lose more piety than their current pool through their actions. Clerics who have a piety of -1 or fewer have fallen from grace, losing access to all spells, spell-like abilities, channel energy, piety, and miracles until they atone.

Offerings: A cleric may make sacrifices of time, goods, and or power in order to regain piety. Some quick examples of sacrifices are…

  • A cleric may sacrifice 1/4th of their channel energy use for 1 point of peity.
  • A Cleric may lead a sermon lasting 1d4 hours and make a DC 20 Knowledge (religion) check to regain (1-1d3) piety points
  • A Cleric may make sacrifices of goods or creatures to their god. noncreature based goods sacrificed need to have a value equal to 20 gp x (the number of points previously gained through sacrificed goods/beings x 10).
    Living creature sacrifices require the sacrifice of a number of creatures with a CR equal to 4 x the number of Piety points previously gained that day. Specific deities often have preferred sacrifices that half this price or in rare instances entirely remove it (a god of wine might take half for an offering of wine, a demon lord might take half for LG outsiders, and Korada might waive the cost for the sacrifice of a powerful Daemon actively perpetuating senseless war and atrocities on the material plane). Realize that creatures sacrificed in this way may not always be killed but are often taken by the god they are offered to. Asmodeus might take human sacrifices as slaves in bondage, Phrasma might kill offerings of captured undead, and Sarenrae might spirit away a Daemon to learn its plans or try to redeem it.
  • A Cleric may take 1 temporary negative level to gain 1 point of piety. This negative level is automatically removed when the cleric regains his spells the next day but cannot be otherwise removed.
  • A GM may grant extra piety for actions particularly in alignment with the clerics god. Examples include, defeating an ally of an enemy faith with CR 3+ the cleric’s level, establishing a church or holy site, defending a holy site from overwhelming odds, establishing government in an anarchic frontier, causing a powerful cleric to fall to evil, provoking cultural/political/societal movements to shake up the status quo, etc.

Miracles (Su): The stuff of legend and myth, miracles are the divine acts of a cleric’s will loosed on the world through their words and hands. Doing miracles expends piety. A cleric has access to miracles based on his domains and level. Unless otherwise stated casting a miracle takes a full round action.

Example Miracles: This list should have at least 2 for each domain and a few for clerics of any stripe.

  • Loaves and Fishes: A Cleric may expend 1 point of piety in order to provide food and drink appropriate to his deity equal to his cleric level + his current piety x 5. This food is filling and meets all their dietary needs for the day. This food disappears after 24 hours and rots accordingly.

  • I am Untouched for I walk with God (Good Domain): A Cleric with the good domain may spend one point of piety to add his Wis modifier to his AC and saves for a number of hours equal to his cleric level. A cleric under this effect loses these benefits if he does lethal damage during this time. A cleric may expend this ability to ignore one attack made against them. A cleric may also expend this ability to lay an enemy flat causing a nonlethal hit to knock a character unconscious. The target must make a Will Save with a DC equal to 10+Wis+Piety or fall unconscious. This effect works on creatures that are otherwise immune to subdual damage or unconsciousness but are only unconscious for 1 round per 4 cleric levels. Attacking or killing a creature so incapacitated by the cleric or any of his allies causes his piety to drop to -1. Creatures turned over to proper authorities or offered to their god or faith ignore this.

  • Hand of the Trickster (Trickery Domain): A Cleric with the trickery domain may gain the deceptive powers of his god. By expending 1 point of piety the cleric gains the Improved Dirty Trick and Improved Steal feats as bonus feats for a number of hours equal to his cleric level. He treats his cleric level as his BaB and may use his Dex, Wis, or Cha in place of his Str for the purposes of Dirty Trick and Steal combat maneuvers during this time. A Cleric may expend this miracle in order to treat his next attack as a sneak attack by a rogue of his level and make a free Dirty Trick or Steal combat maneuver.

  • Divine Assistance (Any): A Cleric may beseech his god for aid, praying for aid from beyond to assist in their endeavors, calling an outsider to aid. This miracle takes 1 round to cast and costs 1 piety per HD of the creature plus 1 for every step it is from your god’s alignment. Creatures summoned in this way that are more than 1 step from your gods alignment cost an additional 2 piety for each step beyond said boundary. This outsider stays for 1 hour per cleric level. The death of this servitor of god causes the cleric to lose piety equal to the cost of calling them. A cleric may call any outsider with this ability, clerics with the animal domain add animals & vermin to this list, clerics with the plant domain add plants to this list. Animals and vermin added to this list require handle animal checks to command but treat as animal companions and know tricks as an animal companion equal to your level.

  • Inspire Courage (Nobility): A Cleric with the nobility domain may gain the ability to inspire courage as a bard equal to his cleric level for 1 piety. He gains a number of rounds of Inspire Courage equal to 4+Cha. He may expend this ability to grant all allies who can see and hear him double bonuses for 1 round and remove all fear effects.

  • Strength of the Heavens (Strength): By spending 2 peity a cleric with the strength domain may add his Wisdom to Fort saves and all melee atk rolls, str checks, and str based skill checks and treats his encumbrance as 1 category lighter for a number of hours equal to his cleric level. On a nat 1 these bonuses disappear. He may expend this ability use his prodigious strength to counter one blow, when hit by an attack that causes bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage he may make a Str check with a DC equal to the damage done. If he succeeds the damage is negated, his ungodly strength too much for such mortal attacks. This check is calculated before he loses this buff.

This list of miracles is by no means complete and is meant to give you a barometer of what to expect. Each domain should get about 2 of these and should have some level locked or require larger investment of piety for even bigger payouts. There should be around 4-8 (likely 6) neutral ones that any cleric can cast with blander/more general effects.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Silver Surfer wrote:
doc the grey wrote:


Yes but you're also forgetting that divine casters have far more defensive spell casting and a dependence on it than any of those other classes. A cleric with Wis to AC would have that on top of shield of faith, bear's endurance, owl's wisdom, and a host of other defensive spells to keep them safe. Removing the armor portion allows them to divert those funds they would usually use towards that end towards buying up spells such as this and tanking anyways and potentially harder than the tanks that already exist. I know it sounds enticing but you run the risks of just making a better CODzilla rather than the feeble yet erudite character you're aiming for. This says nothing of any new abilities anyone might be looking to add which, if they model anything like the revelations oracles get can completely obfuscate the need for armor (check out the bone armor revelations and others like it).

For other examples check out the druid or the Synthesist summoner. Being SAD mechanically is just as bad for the game as MAD. Let the class make players have to...

I really dont get what you mean.

A cleric who has tanked out in physical armour can just as easily cast SOF, Owls Wisdom, defensive spells.... etc as one that isnt?

And in actual fact because of the ease at which they would gain AC in comparison to someone who was only WIS to AC means that they would be LESS LIKELY to cast those type of self defence spells in the first place, thus giving them the opportunity to cast other spells instead. Even Med armour proficiency + shield is worth +8AC completely unenchanted and magic bonuses are relatively cheap.

Clerics with armour + shield can get to 26 AC without any buffing spells by 5th level no probs. A cleric with WIS to AC would still only have a maximum unbuffed AC of 20 at 12th level.... A huge difference...WIS to AC does not create CODZilla !!!

How on earth would I be creating CODZilla?!?!!

No need to get shouty. Let me rephrase.

No, this cleric will not likely get to be the fabled Codzilla, he will still be able to easily buff himself to a point where the penalties you put on him are both quite negligible and be competitive with some other classes that seek to fill his roll along with having access to the full casting suite of cleric. That is the problem.

At first level I can have a priest with a Wis mod of +4 on a 20 point buy easy and no armor check penalty easily. That's effectively a mithral chainshirt at first for no cost on his end, has no extra penalties inherent in its design, and is empowered by character growth he already is likely planning to do such as bumping up his wisdom through spells, level increases, and potentially manuals. It doesn't make the player decide between the two options it just further rewards him for doing what he was already going to do, something that is already pretty rewarding on its own with spells, domain powers, and Will saves just to name a few.

Second, just cause he has this buff doesn't mean players won't use those OTHER buffs on themselves. The cleric spell list is defensive and preventative by nature so thinking that a player won't use them seems a bit short sighted. It'd be like saying a cleric in full plate won't AC bump because he's got full plate armor bonuses. Like for example, lets take this 20 point buy cleric I mentioned. At first with a 19 Wis and a 14 Dex he's looking at a AC 16 sitting and potentially that same number for his Touch if you are running it like a Monks bump and a 14 FF. Now he pulls out a scroll of entropic shield and casts protection from evil. Now he's sitting on AC 18, Touch 18, FF 16 and 20% concealment from ranged attacks. He's probably just buffed into AC on par with the 1st level barbarian in the party and isn't even out of spells yet, most of which are party buffing or field control and the normal level creeps can't really do much about it as things like the standard goblin are needing a 16+ just to tag him in melee when they get there. And if he's got a point in UMD and a little extra money in his pocket he can pick up some cheap, low charge wands of mage armor and shield and things start to get really crazy (remember partially used wands can be bought and come at 15 gp a charge for 1st level). Now we're looking at an armorless cleric with an AC of... 26, Touch 18 (26 vs incorporeal touch attacks), FF 24, 20% miss chance vs all ranged attacks, +2 to saves vs. any thrown at him by an evil creature, immunity to possession by evil creatures (means anything with an E alignment), and is immune to magic missiles. That whole mess just cost him 55 gp, 1/20th the value of the mithral chainshirt his Wis to AC is emulating. Worst he's still got all his channels, his orisons, and whatever other spells he's got prepped and whatever he decided to pack on a scroll. That's 1st level, it's only going to get crazier as it continues to level, gets richer, use non-Core rulebook spells, and falls into hands more interested in optimizing than mine.

So again, interesting idea but problems ensue. You might want to look into putting some sort of cost element into it in order to balance it, like make it build of Cha and require that the cleric still have uses of channel energy left or have limited duration and a pool of uses. Otherwise shenanigans begin.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Short answer? Pretty much any aberration in my book. We got a good crop of em' and they are each so different from one another that your players can never just zone out when they see another new one this session.

In B5 Reptoids offer some interesting options for courtly encounters, scifi, and conspiracy stuff.

The Outer Dragons from B4 are probably my favorite dragons that Paizo has put out since the start of this who pathfinder excursion and also answer a lot of my questions that come up when you start thinking about how a population of giant super predators keep themselves fed and populating without sweeping a land clean or getting merc'd while they hibernate. Also watching one of those things just come diving out of the literal heavens on those swirling stain glass wings is one of those encounters I await the chance to do on bated breath. I mean any dragon can fall from the sky, but only Solar dragons can bask in the licking rays of a solar flare and ride a coronal mass ejection to earth in the glorious morning dawn.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

bump

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Silver Surfer wrote:
doc the grey wrote:


I'd let them keep light armor and spont but not the Wis to AC. Giving their casting stat more utility in the form of defense just encourages SAD building where you've got clerics with stupid high Wis and junk other stats but being able to tank alongside the old cleric or other martials.

You misunderstand..... by no armour and shield... I mean NO ARMOUR AND SHIELD!! Similar to the Ecclesitheurge. So tanking is not possible.

You forget a basic un-enchanted chain shirt and shield costing almost nothing gives you +6 AC straight off. With max enhancements for both that gets you +16 AC.

The version as stated doesnt prevent investment in med/heavy armour and so secretly encourages tanking - my way completely prevents it. To get +10 AC from WIS will take even the most dedicated build until 13th-14th level.

And remember this is a new D6 class NOT a D8 class... its supposed to be SAD.

Yes but you're also forgetting that divine casters have far more defensive spell casting and a dependence on it than any of those other classes. A cleric with Wis to AC would have that on top of shield of faith, bear's endurance, owl's wisdom, and a host of other defensive spells to keep them safe. Removing the armor portion allows them to divert those funds they would usually use towards that end towards buying up spells such as this and tanking anyways and potentially harder than the tanks that already exist. I know it sounds enticing but you run the risks of just making a better CODzilla rather than the feeble yet erudite character you're aiming for. This says nothing of any new abilities anyone might be looking to add which, if they model anything like the revelations oracles get can completely obfuscate the need for armor (check out the bone armor revelations and others like it).

For other examples check out the druid or the Synthesist summoner. Being SAD mechanically is just as bad for the game as MAD. Let the class make players have to make decisions in their build to get the things they want rather than just getting all of it through the path of least resistance.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Guru-Meditation wrote:

What does it get you?

What does other spending-possibilities of "Prestige" give you?

Is there a Prestige-Gold-Converson possible?

Rituals are a dynamic system that grants access to spell like powers to any character who learns them (including noncasters) who manage to learn them. These abilities often have bigger risks and costs associated with them than spells of equivalent level but also usually come with more rewards. By the same token they can vary as much as spells.

The example ritual I listed above to establish a baseline for the minimum cost of a ritual, Avoidance Ward, is statted here.

Prestige has a lot of things that it can be used to buy often linked to the faction you are garnering prestige through. Examples can be found in the faction guide and Pathfinder Society Field guide or for free through the PFS player's guide, the open source content from Ultimate campaign, and what's posted on d20pfsrd.

Prestige is meant to be something a little bit more difficult to convert into gp but by current running standard a single point of prestige is meant to be worth about 375 gp.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Silver Surfer wrote:
Sellsword2587 wrote:

If I had more bandwidth, and actually had a player playng the traditional cleric with spells (instead of a crusader archetype and the Spheres of Power system), I'd probably throw something more substantial together, but here's the quick and dirty on how I envision an unchained cleric. Keep in mind, numbers are rough.

Yeah its pretty good for a rough start.

Although I would:

- Leave the base cleric spell list untouched
- Wizard weapons + proficiency from deity
- No armour or shields allowed. Replace with WIS to AC
- No spontaneous cure/inflict

I really think for a good D6 class it will have to look, feel and play sufficiently different from the standard cleric

I'd let them keep light armor and spont but not the Wis to AC. Giving their casting stat more utility in the form of defense just encourages SAD building where you've got clerics with stupid high Wis and junk other stats but being able to tank alongside the old cleric or other martials.

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MeanMutton wrote:

One of the biggest causes of the disparity is that in Pathfinder there is a very limited case of extended confrontations. Very few GMs and basically no APs require you any sort of endurance. You can always stop, go home, rest up, and continue on. That changes the game from "how many times a day can my caster cast a spell" to "how many encounters per day can we have before we rest".

If we had more encounters per day, more rounds of combat per day, the disparity would mitigate itself. But no one does that. Instead, they scale the adventuring day around the wizard because he whines when he's out of spells and is reduced to shooting of 1d3 blasts of acid.

I can feel on that but like other people said it's not all about combat but also if that is an inherent design issue in the game then it's still a problem exacerbated by the disparity. As casters get to be higher level the amount of challenges both in and out of combat has to increase exponentially compared to a noncaster just to keep them under control at the table. A Wizard needs something to eat up his combat spells, challenges that chew through his transportation spells to keep him from just poofing to the bad guy, a few challenges to eat up some of those utility spells so he doesn't just have his pick of options when you really want to make him sweat burning that invisibility scroll, and some constant pressure that keeps him from feeling safe to just nap it off and start up again. In contrast a martial can need to spend a whole series of sessions handling each of those which fundamentally changes their importance.

In other words, a rogue could spend 3 games looking for clues to get the special key he needs to get into the kings vault, casing its hiding place, and then stealing the thing, a wizard could just look at a picture and fabricate it in 10 minutes or call on an earth elemental to roll through the floor and steal it.

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Kirth Gersen wrote:

7. "I can still have fun playing a fighter/monk/rogue." (Missing from Jiggy's list)
Answer: I can have fun playing a Commoner. That doesn't mean it's a viable class compared to the others.

Agree with everything on this list but wanted to reframe this example a bit. I think it's less, "I can have fun playing a Commoner. That doesn't mean it's a viable class compared to the others." and more like, "I can have fun playing a Commoner but that doesn't mean every martial noncaster should have to go the Commoner route in order to see that mechanically."

A bit of a split hair but the issue I think is less that you can do it and more that there are a lot of people that feel that is what the disparity pigeon holes you into and I think the second verse shows that a little better.

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Working on offering rituals to my players as potential purchases with prestige from the factions in my home game but I'm a bit unsure as to what the price range should be. So to that end I'm looking for any advice to help establish a baseline, what do people think the minimum prestige cost should be for the lowest level rituals, like what seems a fair cost for learning avoidance ward for prestige?

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Rashagar wrote:

The "boring cleric/boring wizard" mentioned by... someone... (I've just read through the entire thread at once so everyone is blending together) is kind of how I feel about all prepared casters in fairness.

You end up just picking either generically effective spells for the day or spells to counter a specific thing that day (eg. remove blindness), and it removes a lot of the interesting build-defining character choices that spontaneous casters make every time they level up.

I like the suggested ideas for making the choice of deity more relevant and the trimming the current spell list combined with expanding the domain granted spell lists, losing the domain slot restriction, and picking one domain choice to cast spontaneously instead of it automatically being cure/inflict (but it could still be cure/inflict with the right domains/portfolio). Also really interested in that idea of spells getting minor bonuses if they're added more than once.

I agree with the person who said d6 hit points isn't particularly appealing for a class that generally can't afford to hang back as much as the wizard can (unless you make all life-saving clutch situation spells ranged, which...), it can be reflected by a poorer con score if you really want the squishiness, since realistically a d6 hp is -1 hp/lvl compared to d8, and should also be combined with a poor fort save for true wizard-squish. =P

I'm now really interested in expanding domain spell lists and fiddling with deity portfolios... damn there goes my afternoon...

Damn, internet ate my post. But yeah I tend to agree on the first part but I feel that clerics get shorted much more considering that the cornerstone of the class thematically is linked to the incredibly powerful cultural force that is the faiths and religion of a world and the unique and incredibly powerful being that those powers come from. Those thing should inform more about a cleric than anything else and make them stand out so that you can have 5 clerics of 5 different faiths and their builds come out completely different. Unfortunately the mechanics the cleric gets either don't have the depth of scope to really give you that or leave so much up to the character that you don't really get that interesting specificity (like spells). I think this need for the cleric class to be the class for a cleric of EVERY faith is part of why we get this class that feels like it never goes far enough to really give a player the character they want.

As for the d6 health option I get it, so far we really don't have a d6 hp divine caster in any capacity with even the Oracle sitting at a d8 and at the same time we really don't have a religious scholar/medieval monk option yet in the first party books so I think people are looking to convert the cleric into that and let its more martial options fall to the warpriest. I could get behind that, also the drop of hp and the inherent risk that comes with that for a class with spells like this could lead to it getting more interesting options like getting more deus ex machina options (like being able to spend piety points to have god stop harm to you), stigmata, martyring, and other cool acts of god happening.

Hmm... I might have to start fiddling with that...

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Melkiador wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Can't really speak for all of them but the Promethean Alchemist really does get the good end of the stick. You trade out mutagens, brew potion, and throw anything for what is essentially a construct familiar (with all the construct benefits therein), fast bab, d10 health, simple weapon proficiency, human shape (so normal armor works), telepathy with you, and the ability to share extracts with. That is super f*&!ing strong, constant, and arguably more versatile than mutagens any day.

It's an ok archetype, but it trades away bombs too, so it's not as good as you implied. I still think it's a valid archetype, but it's not a straight upgrade. It's almost stonelord-like in how different it is from its base class.

But really, an archetype that is a straight upgrade over its base, should be considered a bad archetype from a design standpoint. Of course, if all you care about is min-maxing your own character, then you would only care about the straight upgrades.

Agreed on the last point but I don't think the bomb loss is much of a problem either you're just playing more of a buff utility character than this damage dealer which for the alchemist feels a bit more on the nose for most character ideas. Also the archetype just oozes style.

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zainale wrote:

Construct Rider, Homunculist and Promethean Alchemist seem to be really cool but seem to neuter the alchemist's power in one way or another be it getting rid of your bombs or mutagens or neutering your bombs or potions or poisons.

is it really worth getting rid of your Brew Potion, mutagens, and a discovery for a vat grown/sculpted horse?

is it worth giving up your mutagens and the ability to use poisons worth creating a small creature that can act as your familiar that you can experiment?

and the worse offender the Promethean Alchemist which only leaves you with poisons and extracts. and gives you a pet.

like i said before all these classes seem really cool then i see what they take away and think to myself "my god why would want to be defenseless?" also the creatures they give you can't be healed with CLW....i see issues with just keeping these things alive with the dm i have.

is giving up any of those class abilities worth what those archetypes give?

Can't really speak for all of them but the Promethean Alchemist really does get the good end of the stick. You trade out mutagens, brew potion, and throw anything for what is essentially a construct familiar (with all the construct benefits therein), fast bab, d10 health, simple weapon proficiency, human shape (so normal armor works), telepathy with you, and the ability to share extracts with. That is super f@!%ing strong, constant, and arguably more versatile than mutagens any day.

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Arnakalar wrote:

It's come up before, and will come up again, that the cleric could use some revision. Hell, it's come up now.

I've been working on my own cleric rewrite for quite a while, but I'm curious - what do you think about the cleric? Does it work? What do you like, what don't you like? How would you change the cleric, or how do you think it should be changed?

Things I like

- The Theme. Clerics are a cool idea - gods and domains add a lot of instant flavor and a strong sense of character.

- The cleric is a badass. Not every cleric needs to be smashing someone in the face with a hammer, but even the most retiring cleric is still *tough*.

- Subtlety/mix of abilities - I'm not sure I've put this well, but in any role they fill, clerics are usually fulfilling that role in an interesting way. Battle Clerics/C-zilla aren't just melee monsters; they're blending spells into their combat abilities. Caster clerics aren't just wizards with a holy symbol.

Things I don't like

Little diversity, little customization.

Ultimately almost all my complaints boil down to every cleric being almost exactly the same. While there is some variation in the focus of a character (a battle cleric with strong melee, a debuffing lord of the dead), these characters are basically built on the same chassis. Domains and gods have fairly minimal impact on the structure of the character, and beyond that, there's nothing to decide.

(As a corollary to that, every ability/choice you make as a cleric is decided at level one. What's my god? What domains? Positive or negative energy (if not decided by my god).)

Bland spell list - Cleric spells are *alright*, but certainly nothing to write home about. Most clerics are taking the same spells every time, unless they know they need some situational buff/restoration.

I also think the cleric suffers somewhat from pigeonholing - in 1st & 2nd ed, a cleric was really 1 thing. A beefy dude in plate armor...

The biggest issue I've found with rebalancing the cleric has been that it's kind of all over the place. They can get into melee like a fighter, they can cast spells like wizards and sorcs, they can heal others like no other unique class can. That's a lot of shoes to fill and makes balancing it difficult as you can either improve all these aspects and further increase their power compared to other classes or you focus on specific options to let players go deeper but remove some of those options that people really enjoyed. This also gets exacerbated when you start thinking about the faith options you have as certain builds though mechanically valid feel really off with some faiths like a battle cleric to Korada or merciful healer to Asmodeus. You can build them, and they can be really good, but they can feel like they go against the spirit of the faith they want to explore.

For me, what I've found to be the best way to tweak the cleric is to remove the cleric altogether and use the warpriest, oracle, inquisitor, and 3rd party priest class to really fill the gap. Each of these classes really focuses on the various things someone wants to do in that hand of the church role and because of that can get richer mechanics and more easily balanced because of it.

All that said one of the easiest changes I roll for clerics is making the channel energy type a cleric offers is something they decide when they pray each morning rather than being locked by your god. This helps disassociate the healing/harming magic from good or evil dichotomy and lets players and NPCs follow more interesting faiths while doing builds they want like a healing priest of Zon-Kuthon who calls upon the, "Glorious Pain" to stitch your tendons or a Burning hand of Sarenrae who calls on her fiery passions to scorch away her foes.

Next I like adding new effects channel powers based on your domains, letting you call upon madness, strength, or evil in a way beyond your spells that matches your characters chosen study area of the faith.

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Dark Psion wrote:

None of the Occultic classes need spellbooks, but since the spells can be recorded as Scrolls, can they also be recorded in an occultic spellbook?

Can a Psychic spell that is also on the list of an Arcane or Divine caster be translated to an Arcane or Divine form? Or would they need a "Read Psychic Magic" spell to do something like that?

Yes, Arcane Anthology introduces the concept of spellbooks for spont casters and occult spellcasters as well. They call them Meditation books.

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Well, this will go nicely with all my other horror stuff. Oh how excited my players will be...

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SmiloDan wrote:

My main concern are fiends that can teleport at will.

They can murder murder murder teleport somewhere new murder murder murder teleport somewhere new murder murder murder teleport somewhere old (for zest) murder murder murder, repeat until bored.

And boredom is probably the only force in the 'verse that can stop 'em, since they can use hit and run tactics across distances vaster and faster than the speed of communication.

I think someone mentioned this earlier but one of the biggest stopgaps for something like that is the fact that they live on another plane of existence and for the most part like being their or have a very difficult time getting there and back. Most fiends don't have the ability to transverse the planes by their own volition and need either magical knowledge, more powerful fiendish patrons, or a contact on the other side that can get you through all of which come with their own problems. You gotta study alot or get access to the knowledge for the former, pledge yourself to someone and their goals, or somehow manage to get your contact info over to the material plane and make it enticing enough that someone on their bites which is basically throwing out a message in a bottle and hoping for the best. On top of that you have the issue of the material plane itself which is likely not an outsiders favorite place to begin with. Fiends have to curb their behavior in order to not be caught and killed along with having to avoid acting too publicly in most settings since they would likely draw the ire of local law, church, or adventurer hungry for loot. This is exacerbated for non evil outsiders since they usually have less selfish compunctions than fiends and yet are likely in a world far less to their liking. The Material Plane is a den of sin and awful compared to the hallowed halls of the heavenly planes, a chaotic nightmare compared to axis, and this rigid solidity compared to the Maelstrom. Most of them likely don't want to be here very long or if they do seek places where their homes bleed into our own.

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Libertad wrote:

For me, my faves are:

The Adequate Commoner: Love it for the novelty of the campaign style. Part CharOps guide, part sourcebook for campaigns with all-Commoner parties.

Ohh my god The Adequate Commoner is probably one of the best books to come out of last year's 3rd party pool. A great reference source for both commoner parties and commoner/npc class leveled characters alike, I've wrung more use out of that book than I ever thought I could pull off. From drunken brutes to cannon fodder mobs and halfling vagrants I've made a ton of characters out of that book. Also it has what might be my favorite magic weapon ever in it which doesn't hurt much either.

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Bump

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The title says a lot but to elaborate, if you are designing an occult ritual as specified in Occult Adventures based on a spell with expensive material components does that factor into any of the math in its design? Like if I make a ritual for raise dead does that expense increase DCs, require that I have expensive material components, or even allow me to just build it without them all together? I'm pretty sure I know by intent rituals need (and by design have) drawbacks that help counteract the lack of an expensive material component but I'm wanting to verify my understanding before I go too deep into designing something that might run into that.

Any help or official sources that have said something about this would be greatly appreciated.

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Holy crap this is early! I didn't expect to see the volunteer call until February or March! Hope I can still get everything squared away.

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Kyudoka wrote:
Since the next campaign I am running is Jade Regent, I was ecstatic to find this: Dragon Tiger Ox by Little Red Goblin Games.

If you are looking for good 3rd party for Jade Regent you might want to check out the Way of Ki books by Legendary Games. It basically takes the ki mechanic and cranks it up to 11 with a bunch of new mechanics for ki, feats, and I think an archetype or 2. The biggest thing that always comes to my mind in this is that it gives you a feat tree to get the ability to do a Haduken.

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Sweet! Are they just like spreadsheets or do they have some sort of stylistic layout like the one on the cover?

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Does this include handouts or digital sheets for laying out or designing pantheons?

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Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Seriously, thanks for the compliments, doc!

I really like The Expanded Spell-less Ranger by Kobold Press, which does a great job filling a fundamental fantasy character concept gap.

And as a compulsive worldbuilder and fan of fiddly systems, I've been using Echelon Games's Polyhedral Pantheons worksheets (the full book just came out on Jan. 11) and Legendary Games's Ultimate Rulership pretty extensively.

Ohh does the pantheon book have digital sheets for building pantheons in it? I've been needing a good set of sheets to layout all the pantheons in my game on.

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N. Jolly wrote:

So we've all heard discussions about how the architecture in fantasy worlds fails to take into account magic. Castles assume walls will keep people out, guards have no way of spotting invisible people, and other examples of this exist, and yet world building as a whole tends to ignore this except in limited situations which are often specifically called out.

Knowing this, what steps do you think should be taken dealing with a world that deals with magic regularly? For this, let's assume Golarion, a world in which magic is quite common, with higher level spellcasters (level 10 and up) being uncommon enough that building in regards to them would only be considered in the most important of places (capitals, castles, etc).

My favorite answer? Bureaucracy! Assuming you start looking at these places as worlds with social realities rather than just mechanics Bureaucracy, Culture, Trade, and Taboos can be major stopping blocks to certain forms of magic before they are ever a problem.

For example lets look at invisibility. A powerful yet low level spell, invisibility can cause a host of problems to the budding tyrant to be but let us not forget he is a tyrant in a world where this thing is "common" compared to our own issues and since he likes his head where it is he seeks to stifle problem. The tyrant can ban it in his kingdoms, putting those caught with the spell to the sword, lopping off their hands, burning their spellbook, or hanging them. The churches might find the spell distasteful and deem it heretical, painting its users as craven fiends who are damned for their use of such dastardly magics. Invisibility could be thought of as taboo culturally, as the idea of people wandering the streets stealing, killing, or harassing those poor defenseless maidens without being able to see them being the tactics of only the most perverse and making people abstain its use and more importantly shun those who practice it. Wizards and other spellcasters likely don't share their spells often, hoping to maintain the edges their own unique spells grant them both personally and professionally as kings and queens seek their help as they are the only ones who can offer the ability to vanish. This also makes those wizards rather remiss to share these spells with others and without laws like our own to protect someones ideas the best way to protect their spell IPs is to not share them with anyone save their successors and defend them RIGOROUSLY. The nobility might think that invisibility is ungentlemanly and those who use it are unworthy of attention and title, causing those who employ it to do so at their own peril potentially saving the day but losing their titles (and the land and money that come with it) in the process.

There are just a few ideas that don't require any counter magic to handle them.

I elaborated more on some of this here.

Hope that helps ^-^.

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So I'm sitting here looking for some new 3rd party books on the market and I'm coming up short and was wondering what everyone else has found that is has interesting mechanics, story, or other cool stuff that's floating around for the rest of us and maybe provide some myself.

My personal list:

4 Winds Fantasy: Cats, Dogs, & Horses: Great book that creates dozens of breeds of the aforementioned animals along with animal companion stats and helps give them more definition as player options. Cats especially who become these interesting ultra stealth utility choices for people who want an animal companion who can do a bunch out of combat.

Legendary Games: Gothic Campaign Compendium/Tomes of Ancient Knowledge: Arguably one of the best series to come out from Legendary Games (a studio of awesome freelancers for more than a few paizo products) The compendium adds a ton of new and interesting optional rules, items, and build choices to any game. The best thing in particular though for me has been ToAK. A wonderful supplement that takes the sanity and tomes systems from Call of Cthulhu and meshes them seamlessly into the Pathfinder rules system in a way that both feels like CoC but at the same time makes it work in a Pathfinder setting. You get the new mythos subtype and rules for going insane to the mythos but at the same time not completely nerfing your character into the ground like a lot of ports of this system have ended up being.

Skirmisher Games: Insults & Injuries: Holy s$** this book. Designed by a GM and working MD, I&I is a whole book of new rules and mechanics to bring realistic diseases, injuries, and conditions to your game world in awesome ways. From rules to introduce snapped bones and horrifyingly awesome fire damage to your game to feats for ADHD and statted smallpox this book bring actual medicine to life and makes it all too real and horrifying. I mean this is the book that allows you to use bottles of Old Law whiskey like health pots AND destroy your liver in the process.

Fat Goblin Games: Call to Arms: Fireworks & Primitive Firearms and Call to Arms: Pistols & Muskets: Grouped together because of how much they overlap Fat Goblin's Call to Arms line really hits its stride with these two books, presenting firearms, their history, and mechanical progression from fireworks to rifle bored death machines. These books give you everything from primitive hand gonnes which are basically tiny cannons on sticks all the way up to these awesome minne ball firing, rifled caplock juggernauts. It makes you feel like your at the workbench in some medieval fallout game. Biggest of all though are the awesome new optional rules which bring everything from bracing and fouled barrels to charges of smoke to the battlefield, transforming the already interesting class of firearm from just another ranged weapon that kind of revolves around touch attacks and reload into this really cool field potential field control weapon. I've watched my home game do everything from use the smoke from their muskets to drop concealment for the shooter and an ally to the sorc get giddy at the idea of fouling an enemy barrel with grease. Very cool book if you have any place for firearms at your table. Unfortunately it suffers from some weird layout choices on Fat Goblins part (I wish the tables of new gear were all around each other rather than spread out through and same with some of the optional rules) but all in all they are both excellent pick ups for any game that brings guns to their knife fights.

Fat Goblin Games: Call to Arms: Fantastic Technology: A supplement to the criminally undeserved Tech Guide, Fantastic Technology begins to do for the Tech Guide what their other works do for firearms. Bringing us new lost tech the biggest draws for this book are actually the salvage tech rules and the new kingdom building options. The former allows players and GMs to create new weapons from the salvaged tech of the world making everything from glaives with chainsaw belts and a rusted motor lashed to their heads to arrows covered in c4 and hooked to jury rigged detonators the salvage rules let you further flesh out how a lot of this tech would be used in a world that doesn't yet fully understand how to use it. The kingdom building options are also amazing, bringing what is effectively the tech tree out of Civilization and stitching it into the kingdom building rules. So if you ever wanted rules for when Guns might start showing up regularly in a village or even how to build satellites (it takes a lot of time and work to get there) this is something to look into. It also suffers from organization issue but the content is so good I really hope to see some more to follow it.

So there are a few recommendations of mine. What about you guys, you got anything you'd like to recommend?

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Orcs are what happens when a Goblin squished his head so hard it smooshed into his arms.

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Halflings are what happens when dogs get too smart... or dogs get too stupid.

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zergtitan wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Could that masked character with Merisiel be the Red Raven?
Actually that guy I believe is the new Vigilante Iconic.

I think he means has the Red Raven become the new vigilante iconic? It's not too far fetched and if it's an update I could see the visual update.

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Are these meant to connect with the mountains/hills map?

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Not sure if this is better in here or house rules but here it goes.

I'm looking to offer rituals as potential faction rewards at certain points from the various factions that exist in my home game but I'm trying to figure out a good zone for something like that to occupy. What is the minimum amount of fame even the lowest ritual should require, what about the prestige cost? Assume that the prestige and fame progressions are similar to that of PFS (between 4-6 points a level) but beyond that I'm interested to hear ideas.

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Amanuensis wrote:

Natural (or supernatural) wind or weather effects (penalties, concealment) could help, if that makes sense on your plane. You could describe a big shape barely recognizable in the mist approaching with thundering steps that shake the ground.

Deflect Arrows or gloves of arrow snaring are also options.

There is also fickle winds, but it is not a core spell.

This. The weather system can very easily inhibit ranged combat with even mild winds. Combine that with cover, fog, and some camo and you've got some excellent totally natural choices to help stymie the tide of arrows. Magical options also include invisibility and blur.

Also hiding your guy behind larger allies. A human fighter who comes charging in behind his big ogre friend has at the very least some cover from the assault and if you wanna get real sneaky you can slap a large tower shield on him and make a literal living wall of thwamping death to hide behind. Also reduce person on your melee guy and have the caster ready to dismiss it when you reach melee.

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The hotfix I'm playing with in my home game is letting fighters get a free extra attack (potential 1 per attack they can make) that can be used only to perform combat maneuvers. It encourages players to try those options and gives them more combat utility without completely making the feats obsolete since the feats still grant the AoO safety and boosted chance to hit.

Also it feels more appropriate to have every hit from a mace, club, or sword potentially damage the targets armor instead of just specially chosen attempts chosen instead of damaging the target.

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Good stuff with phantoms but I'm referring to the ectoplasmic creature in this particular instance. It's like the low level equivalent of a ghost that you see in Carrion Crown or in Bestiary 4 I believe. They have phase lurch but don't have the other stipulations about gear that phantoms do.

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Ohh cool! My party will be pleased. That said I hope you guys can edit the language for it a little bit to make that clearer.

Beyond that I loved the work in this piece and primitive firearms especially the new rules. With brace, fouling, smoke, and the spook rules firearms go from these awesome weapons for certain classes or builds with decent damage to these amazing damage dealing and utility pieces.

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Fourshadow wrote:
Shadowborn AND Feyborn would be really cool, though perhaps overkill. I just love the fact they are creating such things to jazz up the Core races. Perhaps people will not clamor so much for new races...aw, who am I kidding? That will never stop.

Yeah though to be fair none of these are core races in any respect save maybe the drow if you count them but their history in the medium. I would much rather Paizo focus on their new or little explained races and go to town there and really make them their own like the Goblins. Like I'm actually a little sad we don't get anything on kyton spawned tieflings in this since they are really tied to the shadow plane as well.

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So, quick question: How do you determine the recoil penalties for weapons like muskets, pistols, and handgonnes (from primitive firearms) that don't inherently come with a penalty?

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Alexander Augunas wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Huh, I've just realized that most of the stuff I've really found memorable from this book have come out of the Old Mage Jatembe section. Did not expect that.

Huzzah! I've done my job!

Also if you wrote all the 40k/roman aquila stuff into aroden's spells then props. Totally excited to whip those out in my home game (and maybe make some orc variants!).

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Can an Ectoplasmic creature carry objects with them when they phase lurch? Like can an ectoplasmic warrior in chain mail with a sword and board phase lurch through a wall and take its gear with it?

Any official rulings one way or the other would be greatly appreciated since I could see it going either way with it being yes it comes with them or no it slips off as they pass through.

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