dm4hire's page

Major update on my Dual Class document, bumping it to 2.0.

Besides redundancies still being eliminated I have added the Class Feat lists and Spells Per Day charts for all class combinations in the guide. I've also added in a section for alternative rules I hope to expand. Page count is now over 400.

As far as core material, I think that's the extent of what will be added until the APG is released and I can update the lists for corrective purposes. Will continue with redundancy fixes for now.

Link

Version 1.2 is now up. New version has reduced a number of redundancies found through class advancement. I've added a page for variant rules, though for now there is only one for hit points. As always any feedback is welcome.

Hello, I've created a guide covering dual classing. It's still in development. Here's the link. Dual Class Guide

Linkified the guide in the quote.

Also: You should post this over in the Guide to the Guides thread.

Gonna dig into this some. At a glance, this looks pretty cool (and VERY chonky). Might consider a table of contents, page hyperlinks, or something similar to help with the chonk.

Thanks, will post there. This is still in the early stages. I completed about week or so ago and just did the latest update Friday. Still have a lot of work to do.

Because I already have a Dual-classed character, I already noticed 1 mistake on your chart (which is very long and thorough, including classes that are not even available yet!). You get "every thing from both classes except hit points and starting skills", according to the book. However, your chart seems to say that you must choose between the Class stat bonus from just 1 of your classes, when in fact you get both. For instance, I'm a Ranger/Wizard dual-class, so I get either Str or Dex for the Ranger part, AND Int for the Wizard part, it's not just 1 chosen from all 3 stats.

In my previous version I had it laid out that way. After some thought and I decided against it. I explain my reasoning for that in the guide. Class is only meant to give one bonus. Since both classes give a bonus you would need to eliminate one. In cases where it's the same bonus they auto eliminate. However, when they offer different bonuses they become a choice. This keeps the character in line with the standard character build and eliminates certain builds being super powered compared to others. It's reinforced during leveling in that you don't get your attribute bonus twice, since one would be for one class and the other would be for the other one.

It's clear that character builds are meant to be in line with others with the exception that you gain both class features that aren't shared. Such as class feats.

My immediate thought is that you're still including redundant features.

For example, Champion/Fighter gets lightning reflexes at 9, alertness at 11, and armor mastery at 17, despite all of these features doing nothing because you already have the proficiencies.

Also, the potential for 120-odd unique combo names like Hunter and Skald is a possibility...

Yeah, there is still a lot of work to do. Finding redundancies is tough when some are using different names, although if they have any variation I can't eliminate them if that variation affects a different element.

I like the idea of adding names. 120 is a lot to think of though.

I have put together a document that compiles every possible combination for all 16 classes. It's just the stat stuff and the level progression table for each combination. Feel free to take a look. Any feedback would be appreciated.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hLYFNPItfVW81uoRVur0hBXaM9ZtcUG3

I see where I am getting confused, but still feel the wording in the damage write-up could be written better. A simple inclusion of "may take an available action to" or write the ability in. Other monsters such as the great white shark list abilities gained from successful strikes:

"Savage - Single Action - Requirement: The shark hit with a jaws Strike on its most recent action this turn. Effect The creature the shark hit takes 1d12 slashing damage."

Just give it a fancy name or something like this:

Quick Grab - Single Action - Requirement: The crocodile hit with a jaws Strike on its most recent action. The crocodile grabs the target.

The coven feature is one of the abilities I would like to see either adjusted, replaced, or perhaps altered.

If adjusted then leave it as the option it is. Just fix it so that it's more usable by everyone.

As for replacement I agree it seems useless and takes up space in the class. Useless class features that will see minimal play need weeded out. Just as feats that 90% will take should just be class features.

My thought on altering it would be to make the coven feature a ritual instead, that keeps it intact and available. A class restriction could be applied to make it available to witches only.

What’s the actual feat description please? Usually feats that allow you to use different modifiers are exclusive to one category and not straight across the board as you describe. Example would be “may use your Int bonus in place of your Str bonus for purposes of attacking.” If that is the case, remember the bonus doesn’t get applied to everything the previous bonus would applied to; so in the previous example +5 toward attack bonus, but not skills which use Str. In the case you point it might applied to all skills but wouldn’t apply to saving throws or vice versus. If the feat is exactly as you describe it then I’d check to make sure it doesn’t have errata which might correct the problem as it most likely wasn’t meant to be that powerful. Though during the early days of the d20 explosion there were a lot of feats put out that had no real thought to them in which case you, being the GM, can still deny it if you think it will disrupt your game.

As for the feat being the "most pow-r-ful feat evar" I’d have to disagree. This is the "most pow-r-ful feat evar":

Chuck Norris
Prerequisite- You are Chuck Norris.

Benefit- Your character is Chuck Norris and can do whatever the hell he damn well pleases; such as finding all treasure and defeating anyone who gets in his way, including but not limited to the DM/GM, any Game Publisher, Jesus, Lassie, and Timmy.

Normal- You roll a d20 to determine if your character will succeed in doing something in the game.

Harvesters just released from Troll Lord which uses C&C, but presents the theme of playing animals in place of the traditional races. It's geared for young people and would be a way to introduce kids to gaming. It uses all the classes found in C&C, which are basic D&D archtypes. I should point out that Harvesters is also self contained as far as using it as a handbook so players don't need anything else and though it comes with everything a GM needs more advanced and further adventures might require other books. Not sure how much they plan on developing it.

Confess! Confess! Confess! Confess!