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Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 756 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Thanks :)


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Hi, I haven't gotten into any sessions in over a year and am finding myself overloaded with minis.

Could you guys please cancel my pathfinder miniatures subscription?


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Thymus Vulgaris wrote:


*Because how else is a cleric of Lamashtu going to get the help of a cleric of Iomedae or Sarenrae ;)

Tell them he/she needs their help to take down a rovagug-ian/daemon-worshipping cult, heck, that's a diplomacy check with a +5 bonus o.O (I would so jump on that bandwagon, those guys are the greater evil +5)


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@deadmanwalking, to add some possible numbers: Aid another, +2, vision of madness, +4, now we're down to +14 shy ;)


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DrDeth wrote:


And, THAT's the whole point of FANTASY Role-playing games.

Well now that's not entirely fair, what about athletes who want to roleplay athletic characters? Or actual geniuses wanting to do the same? Or real half-dragon kobold psions multi-classed into paladins who want to do so as well?

Then again, fantasy role-playing games have many points, there's the point on the end of a spear, the one on a rapier, the several points on a morningstar....


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Don't let the Int 9, sentience and ability to speak deter you from going 'bad dog, that is a bad dog!' or even in a cuddly voice going 'who's a good doggy? Who's a good doggy?' and even giving it doggy snacks.

I forgot, you're trying to make it more homicidal, right?


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Gilfalas wrote:


The entire point of the bluff skill is that it is there to bypass the NPC's common sense.

If all you have to do is tell someone 'don't believe X' to void the bluff skill then the entire skill would be irrelevant as any suspicion on the bluff targets part would be mistrust, which a successful use of the bluff skill BYPASSES. It is the entire point of the skill.

That said, a previous warning from a trusted source may be grounds for a circumstance bonus to the bluff targets sense motive value but automatic voiding of any use of the skill seems a bit over the top.

After all the target may know the person is a consummate liar but the successful skill use still would change their mind. That is the whole point of the skill.

Agreed, there's even a modifier for if the lie is impossible (-20). NPC B is being told the PC is a liar, which is at WORST (and even then, it's not necessarily to the point that NPC B thinks what the guy says is out of the realm of possibility) making it at the 'lie is impossible' stage. NPC A tells B, don't believe the PC when/if you meet him, PC shows up and says the captain sent him over to retrieve some documents. True, NPC A DID say that the PC would lie and while this sounds very fishy, it's not entirely crazy, heck, perhaps NPC A was vague about what NOT to believe and THIS isn't what NPC A was referring to. With a high enough bluff check, the PC can have NPC B doubting NPC A's reliability on the matter.


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Lord Snow wrote:


What can I say? some people are impossible. I know some very fast readers but nothing as extreme as this... still, I wonder if this lady would be able to answer easy trivia questions about books she read, say, a week before. Find it hard to believe she'd be able to give good answers.

There certainly are extreme cases, I doubt if you named the first hundred or even thousand books she'd read that she'd remember them.

@Geraint, I'll challenge that: I say it's not possible because the Chinese kept a detailed record of their history, their works alone would've most likely taken a lifespan to read :)

I've actually begun reading another book: wolf brother, though given that I started several days ago and am still on chapter 8, I'd say my reading is taking a massive backseat.


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kikidmonkey wrote:

The trick, in this case, is to start telling the truth, knowing that he'll automatically believe you are lying.

"Nah, that's cool, I'm just here to distract you from my friends breaking in from the back door."

"No you're not"

*loud hammering, drilling and a backing truck noises*


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There's a modifier to the bluff check for if the target wants to believe you (+5), just reverse it (-5) and there you go.


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Lord Snow wrote:
cmastah wrote:


Heheh, I'm actually reminded of a woman I read about who claims she read 25,000 books in her life, that's just amazing :P
And impossible. First and foremost because of the time it would have taken her (let's be very generous and assume she was, say, 107 when she said that? so she had about 100 years to read? that's 250 books per year). Secondly because I find it hard to believe she started counting right away.

Or she could be 91 and read lots per month ;)


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Doodlebug Anklebiter wrote:
Yeah, if y'all'd been reading Sutter Cane you wouldn't be lamenting you don't read as much as you used to...

I hear his writing really brings the stories to life.

I've actually found a small amount of time during work to do some reading....of manga >.>'

Heheh, I'm actually reminded of a woman I read about who claims she read 25,000 books in her life, that's just amazing :P


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Ravingdork wrote:
Anyone got any more ideas/reasons on why she would remain a paraplegic?

Insanity? :P

Here's a thought: The spirit of her sacrificed familiar is messing around with her body's ability to make use of regenerative spells? Perhaps that familiar can make a comeback as a villain later on.

How about every time a healer came to town (she appears to have tried the healers while she was still in town), they sent them away and brought someone in masquerading (via spells/disguise) as the healer? Perhaps they did this because they despised her or found her condition humorous.

Perhaps the imp familiar she got is making deals with the people who are trying to help her so that she'll just become a lich instead (of course he wouldn't tell the healers his plans)? He could easily trick them into thinking that she's evil and if fixed, will become a more murderous foe.


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Coriat wrote:

I uploaded a couple pictures.

One still in use (not very detailed)
Closeup of an abandoned one; due to dilapidation you can see some of the construction from the "inside"

Perhaps the second in particular may be of some use. I would also recommend looking into some of the American Southwest archaeology for this sort of thing, since it is an example of much more recent (and (sometimes) more well-preserved) Stone Age construction than most, and you already mentioned Native American construction as a topic of interest. Albeit much of that is in materials other than wood as well.

The Pacific Northwest offers recentish Stone Age timber construction examples it seems. Also a potential area to focus research. Less region-specific, with a lot of links to sub-pages.

Thanks, I wasn't precisely sure how some of these houses were and the stuff that was mentioned on the wiki is really amazing, thanks. The long house link was great but the plank house is exactly what I'm looking for. I didn't really want to end up making use of tribal huts because it didn't fit the culture I was aiming for, they have a hunter-gatherer society and primarily rely on stone tools because of their lack of access to metal.

Quote:
You might try reading 'Wolf Brother' and it's sequels by Michelle Paver, which are set 6000 years ago and look up her web site for her sources. Because it's very clear that she did extensive research for them.

Wow, I went to the lady's website and I have to say, she really deserves a prize for all that in-depth research. I managed to get my hands on the first three books, I certainly can't wait to read them. I don't intend on dwelling too long on the culture/life of the tribe because the character himself won't be staying there for too long but more than that, one of the tribesmen's children will go with him, this should certainly help out massively on the subject, thanks.

Quote:
Notice, however, that I said that consistency was required in RELEVANT issues. If you don't take up time explaining about the stone age tools, you can probably get by without the planks sticking out. Particularly for people the protagonist only meets briefly. But, make the tools important, and a waterfall of consequences follows from that. Find a way to make the hero connect with the nomads that doesn't involve focusing on the tools, and you're probably good to go. That said, I would say it's a disconnect in itself that nomads build houses of wood. It's odd to me, and would thus need a decent explanation.

Thanks, I'll try and keep the focus away from some of these details because honestly, the section is meant to reflect the care and love the traveller has for the tribe more than anything else. Admittedly the stone age tribe's life is of far less importance than the members and I don't want to get bogged down in details that won't be brought up again in the story.


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Coriat wrote:


For a long time now I've been of the opinion that suspense is often used to cover up bad writing in much the same way that spices in the Renaissance were used to cover up bad food.

I don't need any suspense about what note is coming next to enjoy this. For me, it's not now about being surprised, it's about hearing the notes done well. A good book is similar.

I've found myself to have no patience at all anymore for books where the only reason to keep reading is to find out how they end.

I personally have always been a believer in the 'it's the journey, not the destination' kind of thinking, it's why I enjoyed the hobbit so much (I really couldn't care less what the end goal was...heck, I think I either forgot the goal or didn't understand it by the time I got to the middle of the book).

One of the things that can carry a book far with me is well developed characters (the hobbit is one of the few exceptions, I just really liked the fairy tale aspect of it), if I can really like the characters and feel there's some depth and humanity to them, I can usually stomach a mediocre book (one example of excellent character design (though I only read the first book and the story itself is also entertaining) would be the codex alera book 1). I like 'human' characters (not necessarily as in racially speaking though), characters whose actions are sometimes not ideal but only because they're just so human, actions that are only flawed BECAUSE they're just so human, or they did the right thing because it's a justice that affects them personally. Books where they don't show us 'what's under the hood' make it hard for me to follow along, where I see characters sometimes react in extreme ways without telling us how the character feels towards what made him react in such a way.

Also? Less ideals and principles and more human-ness. I'm going to fail to connect with a character who starts spouting 'liberty, truth and justice' real quick. Reading about characters who act quickly because a family member is in danger or because they're trying to help suffering people whose pain hurts them emotionally (and that hurts them because they connect/are-connected with those people, not simply because -suffering people!-).


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He flies? Feint and then throw a net.


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Thanks guys, I tried to find some stuff to read/watch but I had some difficulty. Seems you can't google 'how did people first build their homes' and get a full answer. I found explanations of what those homes were, just not how they were built. I remember watching a documentary ages ago that featured a group of documentarians who wanted to build a rudimentary water mill from scratch (the whole deal, not a small replica). It's actually amazing how much fun some of these documentaries are or how interesting the info is. I DID find a documentary on how to build a wooden home from scratch but....as you can guess, they had proper tools for the job >.>'

Ultimately the purpose of the section was for the main character to work alongside the tribesfolk, to let the reader know that the character pulls his own weight (the tribesfolk are building him a home since he plans on staying with them for a while) in addition to contributing to the tribe. I mentioned use of steel tools because I really had no idea how people first cut trees down with stone implements (I'm actually surprised they work...then again I wasn't aware there were more types of stone than flint and 'stone' :P). The primary goal behind this section isn't to show the details and technicalities of how the tribe live but to instead build up the main character in addition to showing the tribe and him becoming close but the problem was I didn't want to end up bringing something up like one of the tribesfolk having a steel axe and the reader wondering where he got it from. They eat communally but my intention was off tables for example, whereas tribes back then most likely just ate sitting on the ground....and again, didn't want readers wondering how they made their tables :P


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I remember reading a novel about characters who got to the shadow plane, they found a place that had ancient ruins (which were no longer around in the PMP). WHO they found were the previous inhabitants who had died there as wraiths, although they ignored the group (who also wisely didn't do anything distracting to attract their attention) and just continued in some reverence of something there. The group then found some powerful beast they were unable to kill (a powerful shadow spider thing?) and had to flee instead (this was one of the Erevis Cale books). If you WANT to design something like shadowy creatures that mimic/reflect their counterparts on the PMP, the book I linked has a 'darkened' template for creatures that stay in the shadow plane and become warped by it (becoming something that better belongs there).


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You can use the pathfinder wiki I believe to find out about those guys and their domains.


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bob_the_monster wrote:
He was playing a disguised half-Fiend that just enjoyed battle more than anything else. I agree that a DM allowing a character like that to begin with is slightly suspect, but we also have a (non-evil) Drow Noble Samurai... so. A few other party members want me to use resurrection on him, but I am basically refusing to do so :P

IF you choose to do so, have your character go into another room temporarily and give the DM a secret list of all the protective spells you cast on yourself, cause when he ressurects, he's going to most likely let loose.


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Your cleric being low intelligence plays no part here, your character chose to commit an action that was totally legitmate. If you as a player DID have that knowledge though, it couldn't hurt to let the barbarian's player know about the possible consequences of your character not knowing.


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RainyDayNinja wrote:
Expletive wrote:
Can they? Is it a rare vestigial ability like it is in humans? If it isn't possible through conscious effort, what about reflexive? If you were to jump out and shout 'Boo' at an elf would their ears move in surprise? If it is possible with conscious effort, could an Elven bard use Perform (Percussion) with chimes/bells/etc. attached to their ears?
I'm not sure which is scarier: the idea that this is a key component to some power-gamer build, or that this is a key component to your elaborate character backstory.

The kingdom of Elfinheim was once ruled by a benevolent and highly misunderstood family called the Romanovs, at a time of political upheavals and during one particularly nasty rebellion, most of the royal family were killed off. The rule came down to the sole heiress who was smart enough to have many body doubles of herself positioned around the country. The family were renowned for their unique genetic makeup that allowed them to wiggle their ears. The sole heiress Earastasia at some point saw a singing minstrel from afar, hearing his beautiful song, she chose to go near him within the royal gardens that was outlined by a steel fence. The people who passed around the gardens paid no heed, for even though they hated the royal family, they had no way of knowing that this was the true Earastasia. The young Queen neared the singing minstrel until she lay herself upon a chair beside him. Upon him turning to look upon her, the young and innocent Earastasia who didn't understand her desires blushed and unknowingly and instinctively wiggled her ears. The onlookers saw her ears move and immediately burst into a murderous frenzy, screaming for her death. The poor and bewildered girl, in a fright, ran off, escorted by guards who immediately came to her rescue. She has fled the country and had to learn to protect herself. The innocent flower bloomed into a thorny rose whose first contact with love took her forever from her home and position. Her ears wiggle no longer for love but for sadness.


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You're forgetting the bard archetype that lets them play by ear or even ultimate combat's answer to UM's magical duel: Ear duels.

There's even a whole culture around ear dancing and even the courting rituals of the elves of Cheliax involves complicated dance moves where you only move your ears.

Some elves have even accepted that they're freaks (Dwarves FTW) and just go ahead and show their ear's versatility by clapping them together.


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It's got an impressive number of creatures:

Book of beasts: monsters of the shadow plane


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RainyDayNinja wrote:
Regarding the steel tools, I think the more appropriate question is: Why is it important that they have homes made of lumber? What narrative purpose is served by giving them tools above their technology level?

The truth is that originally when I came up with the idea for the story, I'd pictured the tribe living in well built homes with rooms (I don't know much about housing in the past, nor whether groups like native Americans merely had Teepees/wigwams and such or bigger/better structures). The tools I assumed would've been absolutely necessary cause I didn't know whether you could get proper wood from trees with simple stone implements.

@Charles Scholz, Thanks man, I actually tried looking around on the web but had no idea what to type exactly to find out the details of what I'm looking for. This ought to help me out quite a bit (the segment featuring the tribe is only the beginning but one of the most important parts).

EDIT:
1. Actually they're not nomadic, they've been living in a hidden valley for centuries, I just wasn't sure what type of buildings (and tools) you'd expect from a very primitive culture.

2. Thanks, I actually wasn't sure whether stone axes would be strong enough for the task or if they'd just crack immediately.

3. I actually had no idea what molds were made from, I never would've thought clay would work :P

4. He's actually trying to avoid contaminating their culture and would rather see how they manage without outside influence.

5. True enough, I guess I was worried my lack of knowledge on certain issues would become a problem (for example, ever read a fantasy novel that features war? I lack any real tactical knowledge but I've always wondered if someone (or most people for that matter :P) who knows a bit better would catch the issues immediately)


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D'ziriak

There's also a pdf being sold on paizo (3pp) that has a whole bunch of creatures you'd encounter in the plane of shadows.


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I've never played it but knowing FGG, I'd say pump up your saves and perception (so possibly a paladin). Some of their creatures from their tome of horrors are nightmarish against will saves and fortitude saves. Expect traps, reflex will help with that, if you can get improved evasion (I think it raises from successful reflex save halves damage to successful reflex save negates all damage) then perfect, perception will also help to see the traps (darkvision will probably also take you far).


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I wanted to ask, when you read a novel and you come across something that doesn't sit right with you, like how a government is handling itself or laws in the land, or how certain officials somehow have more time on their hands than their jobs would indicate, or how peace between two nations can be easily achieved whilst not making mention of things like how trade would be impacted or how in real life it's more complicated than that and such, do you let it be an issue or just go with it? For example when reading about an isolated tribe, do you ask yourself how they have use of steel tools when the author makes them out to be more like stone age folk? What about asking how their homes are wooden shacks/cabins/cottages when they wouldn't actually have the tools to make such?

I've been thinking about writing a novel but there are some things I intended that I know are impossibilities when you actually sit to think about it. What's more, some of these may be brought up such as one character actually helping to build one of those houses when, again, you think about it and realize those necessary tools shouldn't even be there. The folks live more like barbarians/native indian tribes and have no access to outside cultures, nor do they have any sort of mines yet their housing is wooden, made of planks (even though I'd probably just mention wooden homes/cottages without ever bringing up the word 'planks'). They don't even keep livestock or farm, they just hunt and live off the land (their tribe is small and never grows that high due to a genetic condition that specifically knows to keep their numbers down). They don't have any complicated structures, no mills, no specialized tools, just axes to cut trees down with and perhaps a few other steel tools that they'd require (THIS is something that will be brought up since the main character will be living with them for a while and helping in these issues such as building a home).

Even if I added relatively complicated structures, they'd never see use in the story but worse than that, I end up starting to raise the tech level above what I intended. Is it even possible to make properly built wooden homes (with rooms and such) with stone age tools? More importantly, is there any point to asking myself complicated questions or will the reader not care?


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Numerian wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_reading

I'm not quite sure speed reading is for me though but thanks for the heads up.

@Geraint, I'll try and find the first of his kingkiller trilogy, I'm actually surprised to find out he's quite famous for a guy who apparently only published three novels (he's working on planescape's spiritual successor?!)...plus he's got a beard and beards are cool :D

For a while about a few months back I was picking up a few novels and getting through them before I stopped and...well here I am. I got through about 5-7 and then I stopped indefinitely. I won't deny though that it does inspire one to want to write his own novel (although it looks like getting published back then was a lot easier than it is today).


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Kimera757 wrote:

A wizard in elemental form? Sounds like the wizard wanted to be in that form. They should consider ending the spell. If the wizard was in fire elemental form, she could literally cook the baby before it takes its first breath. (What is the Concentration DC to cast Protection From Fire while giving birth? If the Drizzt books are any guide, the Concentration DC of giving birth is pretty significant; one matron actually weaponized the pain by inflicting it on another matron.)

Undead form? If it's willing, presumably the baby is undead until the duration ends. If it's unwilling, I'm thinking the baby is permanently (un)dead.

Gaseous form? Assuming willing, presumably you get a coherent gas cloud that can't move (it's not like the baby has any idea what's going on). Again, these are contrived scenarios. Any responsible wizard would try to give birth in her natural form in a healthy environment.

Heheh, I remember reading that book, it was an odd idea (I heard that WotC(TSR?) usually had a thing about their spells having to be accurate to the rulebooks (which is why originally the panther was supposed to be neither male nor female), which has me wondering if they were fine with this or if he managed to 'get away with it' :P), alternatively she probably has a really low concentration bonus and just rolled really well ;)

Any 'RESPONSIBLE' wizard would give birth in natural form, I've actually had caster characters that were so far removed from 'responsible' they would've tried giving birth in the form of a swarm :P

Another thought, would a mind-controlled character give birth to a mind-controlled baby? If so, that would be great for keeping your child from being a nuisance, provided they come born with the common language (they don't need to actually speak it, several creatures that can't speak have a language for just such a thing) :P


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What does a shape shifted or transformed person give birth to? A human baby? Fine, a shape shifted druid who looks like a bear MIGHT give birth to a human but what does a wizard in elemental form give birth to? What about undead form? Gaseous form?


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ArmouredMonk13 wrote:

Umm, I think that they can move their ears if they try, but I have to ask one question.

WHY?

If they cast enlarge person on their ears specifically, I hear they can fly. One fellow made the mistake of casting enlarge person and bull's strength on his ears and that's how the first Vargouille was born.


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I occasionally get a few minutes of free time to read during work, it's how I managed to get through the first codex alera novel. I drive to work and while using your phone is illegal, I'm going to take a guess the law probably frowns on reading while driving too :P. My time is further divided because I've stuck myself on some exercise courses that take a further two hours off my free time (when you step off the treadmill, sometimes you just can't focus clearly enough to read).

A guy I know who finally graduated college (went abroad and then took further courses to put more impressive stuff on his CV(resume?)) still reads a lot, I even found out about Paul S Kemp and RA Salvatore from him (although his current reading list leaves much to be desired....*cough* twilight *cough*). The rest of my buddies read LotR and the Silmarillion, possibly other stuff but I know they at least read those (which surprised me to be honest, I never thought they were the reading type).

I'll try giving reading before bed a shot though. I'm not married but the guys I work with who are, tell me that once you're married, your kids and your wife become massive responsibilities that eat away your freedom (I don't doubt that they love their kids but it sounds like their work has become their new (and only?) excitement).

I'd seriously hate to think that my life could pass me by and I'd miss reading the Silmarillion (I heard it has great story-telling).


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Ravingdork wrote:

Huh? A +5 enhancement bonus has a market price of 50,000gp--25,000gp if you make it yourself.

Hence, using wish in this fashion is largely a waste.

Alternatively, in a pinch, you could cast wish and make a foe's oversized weapon one size category larger and now he can't use it :P


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Anyone here find that you do the same? It used to be that in my youth, there was pretty much nothing else to do and reading was a great way to get into some pretty awesome story-telling. At first I read stuff like goosebumps, fear street and animorphs stuff when I was really young, then I branched into Christopher Pike's more adult/young teen (based on what cultural view you have of what's adult and what's young teen :P) horror novels. I read some sci-fi novels as well but truth be told, I can hardly remember them (save for obernewytn(sp?), deathworld 3 and one of the doom novels). I got into fantasy novels after reading the hobbit, there was something fairy tale-ish about the story and I think that's what drew me into it. I started reading other fantasy novels but it was hard to find a good one, some of them just felt so....dull.

The thing is, back then, cheap and quick entertainment was just not that entertaining. I had a sega master system (along with an atari, some keyboard that you could insert cartridge games into and some other low tech stuff) even past the PS1 era and late into the PS2 era, I also had an EXTREMELY difficult time getting access to shows and movies so I ended up watching very little media. Today on the other hand, I've got several consoles (not getting the current gen stuff, I've got more unfinished/unplayed games for the old one than I care to admit) and I can easily get access to watch whatever media I want, it's gotten to the point that I get home from work and the first thing I do is pop the PS3 on and start gaming, when I'm done, switch to PC view and pop a DVD in the drive.

I feel like I'm sacrificing good story telling for quick and easily achieved shots of entertainment. It used to be that if I started reading a book (and back then, I really did like most of the Christopher Pike horror stuff), I'd be so entertained I could finish the book in a day or two and my mind would be swimming with the awesome of what I just read for weeks, today it can take me up to a fortnight to finish a thick book like one of the codex alera novels and I hardly take to the book in my free time. I watch stuff like movies and TV shows and I can't help but just switch my brain off automatically (you ever read a review where the author just points out how stupid some of the characters are? Or how the 'subtle' plot was actually quite simple and easy to figure out? It makes you realize just how much you switch your brain off and just accept the garbage you're being fed), video games rarely (if ever) have good storylines, usually probably because a good story comes with a build up of what's going on around you and unless you're willing to read a novel's worth in text (like in planescape...actually apparently from a quote I read somewhere, it's more like THREE novel's worth) they give you a basic rundown: You're part devil, your dad was a devil, today's bad guy was a devil that was involved somehow with your dad, now fight (devil may cry)! Even metal gear solid, as entertaining as it was, the story was pretty simple, the depth came from playing all the games and seeing the sum of its parts rather than individually (and then...you were still stuck with one good story from several games put together).

It used to be that I read about a character who was having doubts, fears and concern that impacted her views and sometimes no dialogue to show it, games have no choice but force it into dialogue and into the face of the character, no view on what's under the hood. I play a video game and at best it's like 'yaaaaay' and then when I turn it off I don't give what just happened in the game a second thought. For me, true art lies in the written word and the places it can take you, from the minds of the characters to the landscapes of the many worlds, everything else just falls flat. I remember reading about characters who DO the research to find out what's happening behind the scenes, today, it's a montage or 'I found a book/googled it'. When I picked up a few novels, I just began to see what I've spent the last decade missing out on for quick shots of empty entertainment, where you meet someone and in the span of three days or less (a couple of hours in a movie's world time at worst...at worst and most prevalent), they're suddenly everything you ever wanted in your life.

And for that, I lament that I don't read as much as I used to.


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How about 'Made in China' and 'Assembled in Taiwan'?


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If you're a level 1 cleric, you have a caster level of 1, level 2 cleric, caster level 2, so on and so forth. There may be a metamagic feat that can also increase it to its maximum.

EDIT: For example, for cure light wounds (CLW), at level 1, it's 1d8+1, at level 2, it's 1d8+2. Same for the rest.


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Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
cmastah wrote:
comrade anklebiter wrote:
Woah.
Can't access the link at work :/
Maddy on 60 Minutes opining that furthering American goals in Iraq was worth a half million dead kids.

Wow....that's.....wow.... -.-'


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Scott Betts wrote:
cmastah wrote:
The best way of thinking of not tipping is like economic sanctions against Iraq. Sure the bad guys aren't being harmed but perhaps the guys who need it will try to make a change since them and their families are getting a tad hungry. If they don't get tipped, perhaps they actually work together to change the system.

Just out of curiosity, how did the whole Iraq thing turn out? I'm not very familiar with it, but it sounds from what you're saying like everything must have been peacefully resolved with economic sanctions and a non-violent citizen overthrow of the government.

I'm just grateful to hear that we didn't get drawn into a decade-long military conflict with them because economic sanctions didn't have the intended effect of empowering a marginalized citizenry to rise up against a tyrannical dictator. What a relief.

Well, there may have been one or two hiccups ^^

comrade anklebiter wrote:
Woah.

Can't access the link at work :/


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The best way of thinking of not tipping is like economic sanctions against Iraq. Sure the bad guys aren't being harmed but perhaps the guys who need it will try to make a change since them and their families are getting a tad hungry. If they don't get tipped, perhaps they actually work together to change the system.


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Buri wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
I haven't seen anyone actually explain how tipping is immoral.
You haven't been paying attention. The social "contract" goes that you pay for the service you get. The inverse of this is that if you don't pay then you get substandard service. So, it, in essence, becomes a bribe for what should be professional, prompt service. Which, receiving professional, prompt service should be the expectation in any setting where goods are traded for money regardless of any kind of bribe, or "tip," system in place.

I wonder how tip fanatics feel towards the folks who work at amazon, I pay for my item and not for their (EXTREMELY) hard work, where does this fall under all their analogies? Does that mean I can expect to get my parcel with the item banged up like mad?


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Just out of curiousity (probably been mentioned already) but what about service charge? Would that fall under tip or is tip still expected?

Also, where do tippers stand on the whole serving yourself? If you go place an order at the kitchen/cooking area and pick up the food by yourself (yep, even place the containers in bags yourself), then is the tip still expected? I usually eat out at fast food places or places where they simply drop the food package with your name on it in an area by itself.

I'm actually surprised to see how fanatic people are about tipping. Personally I still don't get the whole waiter thing, I can place my order at the kitchen and I can pick up my own food, I don't need someone getting rid of a trivial thing such as 'walking a few feet'....of course then again, I don't bother sitting in restaurants and in the few places where I do sit to wait while the food is being prepared, it's usually half-empty so I don't need help getting a seat.

I do actually tip my barber though but that seems to be a weird habit I picked up when I was a kid....

As for the whole 'my wages suck, pay me to do my job', is not really going to fly. I remember porters over here were usually random guys with no actual jobs who were helping you out solely for the tip, THOSE guys I tipped, they don't ACTUALLY have a job with wages. I personally say let's make tipping formal: give up your wages (you say it sucks anyway) and live solely on tips, THEN the people you're serving will be paying you to do them a service.

If the tips are your real salary, what the heck are your wages for? Actually showing up? Showing up sober? I'm sorry your pay is terrible but again, if my tip is paying you to do your job, then what are you being paid your wages for? You're not the only one who thinks their wages are abysmal, I'm pretty sure all folks in manual labor feel that their salary is awful, you ever tip a construction worker? Garbage man? Janitor who keeps the bathrooms and floors clean? These folks don't get face time and they're certainly not going to get tipped, so why would you?

I probably can't sympathize because over here the minimum wage is better than in the US but at the same time I still find it disagreeable to say that this is a matter of morality, considering that morally speaking there are a LOT more needy people out there than someone who's actually got a job. Your pay might suck but at least you get paid and ONLY if you're literally getting no wages will I go ahead and tip, I'll even tip generously because I'm not paying the restaurant for you to do this, I'm paying someone who's unattached to the establishment.


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I umm...didn't read your second post (it's late and I have work tommorrow and I shouldn't even be on the boards right now :P) but reading your first post, I thought what you did was awesome. I've admittedly never played PFS but I GUESS I wouldn't have any problems with my character dying (if I go in expecting to win, why play? In that case, I win all the PFS and am the master all-class level 20 lolol). I DO however expect my experience to help carry me, if I've fought demons before and learned the hard way (sadly everyone knows this now) that cold iron is important, I'm going to keep one ready (although with a character who WOULDN'T know this, I'm ready to RP it without that knowledge). Ever played demons'/dark souls? The only reason you KNOW you're going to win even in challenging situations, is because perseverance will carry you, but in PF/DnD, death is a bigger hurdle.

I think you did great and the wizard is upset you didn't let it be a cakewalk. I've had DMs that simply freely added HP to a boss because they wanted to artificially drag the fight and just casually added points to the attack and AC numbers.

Again, I don't play PFS so maybe altering the mod is the worst sort of taboo (even if it's making it harder and not easier) but I'd play at your table (I'm not flattering you here by the way, I'm being serious, I haven't had a DM that gave me a fair straight fight with a boss before, they've all fudged stats and rolls to make a fight the difficulty they want. I've personally fudged to keep the players alive, they've fudged to keep the boss alive). My players also would've seen what you did with the monk and would probably resent the monk's player for playing along :(

I would definitely play at your table.


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Hama wrote:


No offense, but your players sound kinda spoiled to me. Why wouldn't a very smart creature with access to scrying counter them however it could? I know I would, if I knew there was someone dangerous gunning for me.

Admittedly my players seem to prefer either a more straightforward approach or to have their enemies be more like multiple choice between several possible folk. I even remember one of my players not being happy that evil folk lived side by side with good folk (you can still be legally evil without being a psychopathic killer, the types of that have been mentioned so much on these boards, there's no point in even giving examples here), he wanted the bad guys they're after to be evil so they ping off a detect evil spell and the guys they're working with NOT to do the same (sometimes you have to choose the lesser evil and sometimes your allies are not what they seem). I even made it clear that 'he's evil' won't fly in court, neither will YOUR successful sense motive check...neither will ANY sense motive check, you still need evidence (they weren't happy, they REALLY thought that detect evil is the cure-all button. It certainly explains why one of them, when DMing PF for the first time since DMing 4e for many years simply cut out any use of detect evil rather than make his villains subtle. I even explained that sometimes the 'good guys' can still be evil, for instance the barbarian who'd gladly die for his people but mercilessly murders enemy civilians, perhaps even relishes it, or the business man who hired you who regularly takes advantage of the nuances in the law to exploit his workers to the fullest and then simply fire them when they need the job the most, perhaps at a time when he can avoid even paying them their due (for instance with immigrants, where if even HALF are probably getting paid, other desperate immigrants will try to get a job there regardless of the stories they've heard), YOU'LL get your pay but his workers won't and YOU'D never realize it without asking around about him but your detect evil will tell you he's evil). These are the same guys who are arguing for the right to be able to steal powerful weapons and items, even though I explained that cash and items are part of a character's build, items probably being more important than stats (they'd be the guy in PFS who finds a powerful weapon then says 'I just keep it').


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
This is entirely arbitrary. Why would a 2 months premature baby in an incubator be different from an 8 month along fetus?

Ok, I'll bite.

Because in the case of the former, the question of the mother's CONTROL OF HER OWN BODY does not apply. But that's pretty obvious, so...

But if two conjoined twins share a liver, twin A cannot say "I want to control my own liver, get off..." and have to it with the hacksaw.

I think I saw a horror movie where one of them actually did that :P


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Orthos wrote:
Matt Thomason wrote:
Vivianne Laflamme wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Personally, I don't actually think a low-level flying race is as unbalancing as people make it out to be.
I agree. But even if you think low-level flying is unbalanced, that doesn't mean winged PC races aren't possible.
Agreed here. Personally, I'd go with "you can fly, but can't ascend fast enough for it to be usable in combat until a later level" if I felt it was too unbalanced. Mostly I'm able to trust my players with that kind of extra power though.

In our games, we've got both a flying race - two actually, one avian and one insectoid - as well as a race with a natural climb speed and enough legs to render trips extremely unlikely and a race with a serpentine shape that makes them outright immune. And haven't really noticed any brokenness or excessive difficulty with dealing with them in combat.

Sure, they beat those strategies that might work on more "standard" characters. You have to tackle them in a different way.

A drider-esque character isn't going to face much threat of being tripped by dogs. But in close quarters they're going to have issues with size, and I speak from experience here, having just put such a character (played by me, not GMed, for once) through the catacombs section of the first chapter of Runelords. Small quarters are not kind to Large creatures using Greatswords (even if said Greatsword is Medium due to the Undersized Weapons trait).

A flying character might be able to avoid a lot of the dangers of tangling with stuff in melee, but it's still got to deal with archers and spellcasters, and at low levels you're a lot less likely to successfully make the Fly check for taking damage in the air, which could cause you to fall, and with well-played opponents could make you a sitting duck. That really goes true for all flying races that don't start with enough racial HD to pump their Fly score up to the point where they make that check on a 1.

A snakey character might not be...

I agree, sadly I guess I'm basing my views on players of mine who hate having their benefits countered (so long as they have a benefit, they expect to be able to make full use of it without it being countered at all :/).

EDIT: I do think however that the core races should stay the same but that further options should be presented in other books like the bestiaries and such. The core races represent standard fantasy fare while the other races are usually treated in an exotic manner. Additionally not all DMs are going to be prepared to tackle the party with appropriate tactics, even flying doesn't become an issue till later (I still find the flying rules a tad hard to remember and need a page nearby to go over it).


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Odraude wrote:


But, I'm admittedly more of a simulationist when it comes to environment stuff like that.

This isn't pertaining to the flying thing but in general I wanted to do the same because the environmental rules allow for wonderful dramatic experiences but sadly my players can't be bothered with anything they consider to be 'complicating things'. I wanted to implement travel rules as well and gave them a blank map to chart their way through the world and to make use of survival to traverse the world and experience its different environs but sadly....they just wanted to get the whole thing over with because they couldn't be bothered with this stuff....that was killing the simulation of the difficult, arduous yet adventurous trek aspect that I intended to include, ripe with encounters of tribal cultures within the world and mystical creatures as well.


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Had an awesome moment with my kobold (well, two actually) previously:

1. Just getting introduced to party, he tries to pickpocket the party paladin and gets caught (nearly had his hands cut off). Guards arrive just in time to apprehend the kobold (DM was being nice) and pick him up by the back of the shirt. Kobold spouts that he works for the nobles/aristocrats/higher ups/everything he can spout off to get away with it. Guard holding the kobold shakes him to get him to shut up, kobold gets angry and tells hims something to the effect of 'RRR! I have rabies! I bite you!', gets smacked in the head and decides to have a little retribution (already starting up issues with local law enforcement) by making use of his quickdraw to draw both daggers and attempt to cut off the soldier's fingers that are holding him. Cue confirmed critical hit and now the kobold is free to run for it. Soldier pulls up a crossbow to fire it at the fleeing kobold, cue confirmed critical fumble and the bolt explodes into the soldier's face, blinding him, kobold makes use of this incident to call out that he works for the sorcerer lords running the town with now an added circumstance bonus on his very high bluff check...successfully.

2. Kobold sneaks and fumbles around in the deeper darkness in a cave only to accidentally find himself standing behind the oblivious lich who cast it. Prior to this, the dwarves of this area forced the kobold's party to 'interact' with holy water to prove they weren't undead, drink it, cover themselves in it, etc. The kobold chose to drink it. Standing behind the lich, he pulls down his pants and pees holy urine on the lich.


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Matthew Morris wrote:
The 200 year old immortal on the other hand, became horrified at his mentor's casual attitude on mortality. He tried to form deep friendships to *not* become like his mentor. If I lived another 100 years I can't imagine how I'd feel knowing my friends, and possibly their kids and grandkids had gone on before me.

Not to get too depressing but let's put this into greater perspective, shall we?

Forget that your kids and grandkids had passed on, that your friends have passed on: INSTEAD, every cause you fought for, every 'community' you fought for you got to see die of old age. Century 1, fight for good guys X, campaign over and you succeeded, sixty years later all those voices and tears of happiness died out, another 70-80 and their children's voices have died out. 250-300 years later and that community eventually started giving in to natural human evils such as selfishness, greed and racism. NOW you help community Y, rinse and repeat everything that I just said. 3-4 centuries later you help community Z, rinse and repeat the previous. Now, who honestly cares anymore? The good who live under tyranny will all die eventually and it'll be like it never mattered. Kingdoms, countries and maps will change, just give it time. Even your efforts are nothing more than something to pass the time (decades, reaching into centuries) when you're bored because individuals can be awesome (not perfect, but awesome) but the majority are either always or inevitably will become awful.

At this point, humans are no better than food: Today, I feel like tasting the wonderful culture of [insert people X], I hear they're well known for their hospitality, maybe after a few decades I'll try out culture Y, they have this whole architecture thing going for them. Are the poor of country X suffering under extreme poverty? Well, let's not sully the taste by actually bothering with them, shall we? Essentially you get to know what it's like to enter into movies/D20 modern: Let's try and enjoy basking in some 'hotel Rwanda'! I'll go to an impoverished country that's suffering massive genocide and fight for the good guys! Well that was fun! I also got to participate in some RP featuring dramatic moments where I cry over the dead innocents and swear vengeance! Tomorrow, it's a little bit of house! You could, quite literally, in the middle of an operation on a subject just walk out cause you got bored of today's 'episode' (of helping some guy who needs it with your years of medical knowledge) and decided you wanted to try a different genre. This is like if (returning to hotel Rwanda) the main character got bored of the storyline midway through and just walked out with everyone in the hotel getting massacred (even including this century's wife and kids) just to find a different genre to participate in.

This actually sounds fascinating and I would LOVE to play that character :P


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Vivianne Laflamme wrote:
cmastah wrote:
Having a playable avian race in the game suddenly gives a character a very useful/powerful ability to fly extremely early in the games,

Tengu can fly? :P

Anyway, it's possible to have a winged race without giving flight at 1st level. The raptorans from the 3.5 splat book Races of the Wild did this. Starting at 1st level they can glide, traveling 20' forward for every 5' of descent. At 5th level, they can fly for a number of consecutive rounds equal to their Con mod (but they can glide between that). At 10th level, they get full flight all day e'ry day.

True enough, as per the bestiary entry, fetchling PCs (or NPCs for that matter) can't move out of the material plane until a higher level (I think level 7 or 10).

Heheh, trying to think of a drider character that starts out with only two spider legs and is trying desperately not to fall flat on its face :P

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