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Water Elemental

carborundum's page

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32. Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 1,916 posts (1,928 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 3 aliases.



I was running a game involving a lot of mystery and intrigue. Under normal circumstances, I would keep the number of players down to at most 3 or 4 under such circumstances, but for some reason the game got out of control and I had 9 players. The different plots and storylines were hell to try to control and keep straight in my head.

To add to it, players were slipping me notes asking questions and telling me about their different situations. I was trying to keep the note-passing to a minimum because it took time to read and respond, that was delaying things in the game.

A situation arose one night involving the culmination of one set of storylines and the beginning of another. One character in particular was in the middle of the situation and I knew she'd have questions to ask.

So I prepared a sheet of paper with answers to the questions I was pretty sure she would ask, intending to tear the various answers off and pass them to her as she asked them.

But the action was so heavy that when she started the inevitable, I just folded the paper with one answer in each fold and handed it to her, telling her not to unfold it until I told her to.

At the climactic moment, she asked the first of the questions, and I told her to look at the first section of the note, since that was the answer to that particular question.

After that, she asked the questions in order, and I kept telling her to unfold the note. The rest of the players got really quiet, and I could see their eyes getting wider as she asked and I told her to unfold. There was a few moment's silence after the final question was answered, and she didn't have anything else to ask.

I cleared my throat and continued the game.

Afterward, the players all asked me how I knew what she was going to ask, and I shrugged and said, "I'm a GM. It's my job."

I still get compliments for that, and it was years ago.

Cheliax (Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Modules Subscriber)

Nazard wrote:
13. Random, harmless woodland creatures wander into the dungeon behind the party. Play up the clomp of hooves on stone, and as the party buffs itself and sets up its ambush, enter a very lost deer.

Then, after the party has breathed a sigh of relief and let their guard down, have the half fiend lost deer attack relentlessly.


Higher Level Horrible Stuff (Level 10+)
Honestly, I don't find a lot of the upper tier monsters in the first bestiary that horrific, with a couple of extreme exceptions (Tarrasque, Balor, Solar). The Bestiary 2 however has some real killers in it:

1)Shining Child Holy crap is this thing nasty. Overall good stats, perfect flight with a fast speed and an unlimited use of a 10d6 fiery, ranged touch attack. Couple that with some of the best Spell-like abilities in the game on a CR 12 and you have a nightmare to fight against(Wall of Force, Spell Turning, Greater Dispel Magic, Sunbeam, Scintillating Pattern, and Greater Teleport to name a few.)Oh, and its got elemental resistances, immunties, and an abnormally high touch AC. No SR is its only weakness.. except it has Spell Turning .

2)Catoblepas Usually, Magical Beasts are some of the easiest critters to contend with. They typically have poor will saves, low touch ACs, and their special attacks (with the exception of Basilisks) are rarely fatal or destabilizing. This thing has the worst breath weapon in the game. A 60' cone will probably encompass an entire party, especially on a surprise round. Unless you're immune to poison, three consecutive saves at DC 23 is rough, especially when the result is 1d6 con. I could see this thing one-shotting an unprepared party, especially with just a couple bad rolls. Oh well, at least it doesn't disintegrate you like in the old days..

3)Demon, Omox A lot of nastiness here, the worst of which is its swift Dimension Door ability. One of the few creatures that can stop spell-casters from flat-out speaking once they're grabbed, it would be quite easy for this thing to grab somebody underwater and swim away with them (with a swim speed of 80), either strangling or suffocating them do death. In this reagrd, they remind of a Choker done right for higher levels. Considering the amount of environmental control it has with its SLAs (Create Water, Control Water. Stinking Cloud, Acid Fog) and it would be easy to set up such ambush tactics.

4)Tick Swarm Okay, techincally a CR 9, but I think this has to be the worst swarm in the game. If they also flew, it would be unholy. If this thing gets surprise on the Arcane casters, you might be looking at several dead PCs. The Cling ability combined with Blood Drain is pretty horrific.

5)Banshee The thing about Death Ward now: It doesn't last that long and doesn't really provide immunity to death effects, just a bonus to saves. The fact that the Banshee can't be nerfed by that spell (though it does stop her touch attack) or Silence makes her capable of one-shotting a party, especially since someone theoretically could have to save twice in one turn against her. I'm glad that she's as bad as she should be, but damn...

(Paizo Superscriber)

Quarotas, Erth16 try this:

- Get a dozen 3"x5" index cards and some Crayola markers. Color one side of the index card GREEN and the other side of the index card RED. (Ask around in your group; if anyone is colorblind, then color one side BLACK and leave the other side WHITE instead.)

Give one to each player and tell the players they should set the GREEN side up. As soon as they are not having fun, they should turn the card over to the RED side.

If you as the GM look out and see a RED card ... then STOP the game, and ask the player why they aren't having fun. If the answer is "I don't want <bad player> to tie my Ranger up." then you tell the player doing the tying up, "Look <red card player> isn't having fun. You must untie the Ranger."

If <bad player> says no, then say, "Okay, <bad player's character> is teleported away. <Bad player>, you're done for the session. You may observe quietly or leave the table, your choice. Oh, and the ropes binding the Ranger are suddenly gone too. Who's next in the initiative order?"

If <bad player> starts to complain or argue, "You may observe quietly or leave the table." At this point, you look at <bad player>, but don't say a single word or react in any way until <bad player> either shuts up or leaves the table. Even if <bad player> goes on for five or ten minutes shouting at the top of their lungs, you SAY NOTHING and DO NOTHING -- <bad player> either shuts up or leaves, there can be no other option.

If you start to feel weak, or like you want to cave in to <bad player>, or like you want to respond/reason with <bad player>, then look out at the RED card on the table. <Red card player> is the player you SHOULD be worried about. THAT is the player you are slapping in the face by not holding the line with <bad player>.

And here's the secret: Everybody else at the table is rooting for <red card player> and they're also rooting for YOU to hold the line with <bad player>. They don't want to say it, but believe me they're thinking it; as sure as the sun rises every morning. Don't let your other players down. After the game, they will THANK YOU for holding the line with <bad player> and making the game more enjoyable.


Saw some cool videos on YouTube showing how to make your own dungeon and cave tiles. just look up "The DM's craft" to find the videos... neat tutorials.


I am a middle school science teacher and a PFRPG addict. Recently, I've been seeing lots of research about video games and cognitive development, decision-making skills, etc. I have posted some of my findings here:

First

Second

Third

I would like to try an experiment next year. I plan to pattern my classroom after the PFRPG. Rather than "points" for work done, students will earn "XP." Rather than working toward an "A" or a "C," they'll try to reach "level 5," or "level 3." Tests would be "bosses." "Achievements" or "feats" can be earned for special assignments. Etc.

What I would like is to hear the ideas that you all can come up with. Many of you have been playing RPG's much, much longer than I have and some of you may even be educators. Share your wisdom and creativity, please. I'm really hoping this turns out to be a lot of fun for the kids, and maybe even really motivating to a kid who wouldn't normally try so hard.


So it's official, there will be no new or revised subsystem in Ultimate Equipment about crafting or magic items. But hey, who hasn't ever played a poisoner rogue or alchemist, and wondered how cool it would be to have some custom poison crafting rules ?
That would let them, you know, really use the poison skills they are supposed to have.

Well, good news, the first drafts of Maxximilius's Cookbook for poisons, venoms, toxins and marshmallows are good at reproducing the approximative price of some of the most emblematic poisons, and thus at creating custom poisons balanced for use ! I was originally thinking of this as the content of a possible future Pathfinder supplement, but who knows ?

I know poisons weren't intended to follow some kind of precise formula from the beginning and are more priced accordingly to their supposed utility, but when you got no door, just RAGELANCEPOUNCE the wall and enter the Matrix.
Now to fill the gaps, and fix high-brokenness potential pricing issues... including the fact that the test prices tend to be slightly higher than the core ones, something that should probably be quite the opposite despite some poisons getting a little bargain in the process.

The Cookbook is still pretty new and drafty for the time, as thus it isn't perfectly balanced and doesn't fully integrate the following systems yet :
- initial/secondary effect ;
- confused/unconscious/paralyzed effects ;
- mental stats damage.

Finding something you like, fleshy being ?


I'm reading over Into the Maw right now, and on p. 80 there's a dungeon dressing table for decorating empty rooms. I thought I'd see if anyone else was game for expanding the list. If you wanna add your dressings, just put a number in front of your idea; maybe we can make a big list. Here goes:

01: an albino python slithers through the room, carrying an ear in its mouth.

02: a pair of immense wheezing, animatedly respiring lungs dominates the floor of this room.

03: a small fluffy dog with the head of a vulture sits in the middle of this room. On it's barbwire collar is one of Lavinia's earrings.

04: a large scroll, 2 feet wide by 35 feet long. Unraveled, it seems to be of pairs of dretches practicing kendo moves.

05: a dropped prison shank made from the spine of a spined devil and a strip of leather wrapped tightly around the base for a handle.

06: the walls are covered with hundreds of flies, 2 inches long, stuck in a gooey paste. They buzz loudly but cannot escape the goo.


It's late, I'm up, and honestly my mood has me playfully musing about really twisted and mean things that BBEGs can legally do within the rules, which would be seen as absolutely horrible and probably mean spirited and probably get you some dirty looks.

"Perfect!" I think to myself. That's just what I love. I'm a very nasty sort of GM who has a love/love relationship with players that's disguised as a hate/hate relationship, you understand. I'd describe myself as Lawful Good when working with the players. I want them to succeed, I help them with the rules, point out tricks they might not have known of, happily give advice for fine tuning characters, and rarely ban anything or try to rain on their parade.

However, the moment it comes time for building encounters and such, it's like getting slapped with a atonement (lawful evil) spell as I'm setting down to write some notes. The name of the game for what I'm going to put the PCs through is frighteningly similar to Satan's trials against Job: "If it's legal" is the name of the game. As long as it's within the confines of the rules, prepare to suffer and suffer mercilessly...

Of course, that's also because it seems to make it all the nicer when you succeed. I mean, nobody talks about that time when you wandered through the cave and slaughtered a bunch of goblins 'cause they were trying to melee you with their little short-swords, as you casually approached the hordes of loot in the back...

They talk about that one game where they narrowly managed to hold on by the skin of their teeth, when the cleric had fallen into that flaming pit trap and was trying to climb out while on fire, and the goblins where chucking nets on the fighter to keep him entangled, and peppering the party with feces covered arrows inside small tunnels that forced them to suffer squeezing penalties, and yet - somehow - managed to overcome and push to, where they found the treasure composed of so many copper pieces, stolen ale, and livestock.

So what's the point? Well I'm feelin' a little diabolical, so this is the thread to really let out the nastiest, darkest, most depraved and cruel encounter ideas possible, without fear of being called a mean GM. Nay, this is the thread where being called a dirty rotten GM is a compliment. When Pit Fiends look up to you to get ideas, you know you're in the right thread!

I'll start if off with some really nasty ones.
========================================================================

Now you Don't
This dirty trick basically involves afflicting the party with blindness via magic resetting traps. It's simple, and it's mean. The trap is a resetting proximity or location trap that affects multiple targets (say anyone within the room) with the blindness spell (DC 13 to negate) each round. The CR is 5 (1,600 XP) and requires a DC 27 Perception/Disable Device check to disable.

The idea is that anyone who's in the area has to make a Fortitude save each round or be afflicted by blindness/deafness or be permanently blind. Ideally, the party should encounter trouble while inside the room. Naturally, enemies with blind-sight, constructs, undead, or anything immune to blindness will work (creatures with SR 24+ are immune as well) would be ideal in such a trapped dungeon. Each round that the party has to spend slugging through the enemies (who may be blocking the exit to the room) they have to make a new saving throw. No matter their level, there's always a 5% chance they biff it and end up permanently blind until someone can restore their sight via a spell.

The thing that makes this particularly nasty is the fact that unless the party is packing a lot of remove blindness and similar, it can be devastating trying to trudge your way through a dungeon while blind. Even getting back out of the dungeon would be a horrible test of endurance. Weenie monsters are now frightening threats.

Blindness Trap (CR 5) = 1,600 XP
2 Bloody Efreeti Skeletons (CR 6) = 4,800 XP
Total Encounter = CR 9 (6,400 XP)

The efreeti skeletons have fast healing 5, DR 5/bludgeoning, 65-85 HP each (if animated in a desecrate spell), immunity to cold and fire, large size (granting reach), and should probably be able to hold the party reasonably long enough for people to begin failing some saving throws.

The earliest the PCs might encounter this mean encounter is about 6th level (APL+3) as an "epic" encounter. At 6th level, good base Fortitude saves are +5 and poor ones are +2. Assuming a +1 cloak of resistance and a +2 Con, that's a 25% chance to be blinded each round for a good Fortitude, and a 40% chance for a bad one. By 9th level, base Fortitude saves are up to +6 (good) and +3 (bad). Even with a +2 resistance and +3 Con, that still means a 10% chance per round to be blinded for a warrior, and a 25% chance per round to be blinded for someone with a bad fortitude.

You could also toss hordes of low CR skeletons at them, just to stall. For bonus points, adding a CR 3 trap that spams inflict light wounds on everything in the area is like giving everything they're fighting fast healing, while whittling down the party a few HP every round as well.

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

Scott Betts, Defender of Wizards

Domains: Defense, Resolve, Oceans


6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 54 people marked this as a favorite.

Hi folks,

This is my understanding of how these things work individually, and when used all together. I would appreciate any corrections or suggestions, both in spelling/grammar/style as well as content. Should this guide prove useful to anyone, a revised version might be posted in a more permanent location some day.

My goal is one (lengthy) item that someone can read and fully understand how these things work, by bringing together plain text explanations and the various rules that are scattered about various parts of the books. Also be sure to see This FAQ Item. (Thanks Sean!)

Part 1: You got the Touch, you got the Power!

The foundation of this guide is Touch spells. This section will deal entirely on how touch spells really work. Without it, Spellstrike will be a confusing mess. You're only cheating yourself if you skip ahead. Of all the problems I've seen people have with the Magus, half of them are due to not really understanding how touch spells work.

We'll start with some relevant rule citations:

1) Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action.[1a] You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target.[1b] You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

2) Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely.[2a] You can continue to make touch attacks round after round.[2b] If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge.[2c] In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.[2c]

3) Touch Spells and Holding the Charge (Magic Chapter): In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Sparky the Sorcerer spies Clunky the Orc standing ten feet away. He wants to zap him! Sparky casts Shocking Grasp, a spell with a range of Touch. As part of casting this spell, Sparky gets to touch as a free action[1a] and can move before doing so[1b]. He moves up to Clunky, and touches him. He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Sparky has 12 Strength. His result is 16, not bad! Clunky's Touch AC is 10, so Sparky has sucessfully touched Clunky, and the spell discharges. Zap!

Lets try this example again with some different results.

Sparky the Sorcerer spies Clunky the Orc standing sixty feet away. He wants to zap him! He casts Shocking Grasp, and moves thirty feet towards Clunky. He is out of reach, so he can't make his free touch attack that was granted by casting the Touch spell[1a] so he Holds the Charge[2a]. Clunky moves up and attacks Sparky, but misses.

Round 2! Sparky still wants to zap the Orc, and is holding the charge[2]. He uses his standard action to make a melee touch attack against Clunky[2b]. Because of the held charge, he is armed, and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Sparky has 12 Strength. His result is 4, that's terrible! Clunky's Touch AC is 10 so Sparky has missed. Sparky gives up his move action and ends his turn. Clunky attacks Sparky again, but misses.

Round 3! Sparky is tired of this Orc, he uses his special sorcerer Draconic Bloodline power to grow claws as a free action. Now he uses a full-round action to make a full attack. He is still holding the charge, so if one of these attacks hit, it will deal damage as well as delivering the spell[2c]. He rolls his first claw attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Sparky has 12 Strength. His result is 18, terrific! Clunky's AC is 14 so Sparky has hit. (Note: This attack is against Clunky's normal AC, not his Touch AC, because Sparky is making a melee attack, not a touch attack) Sparky deals his claw damage (1d4+1) and also discharges his Shocking Grasp, Zap! If Clunky still lives, Sparky can finish his full-attack with his second claw, which will deal only normal claw damage if it hits. If Clunky is dead, however, Sparky can abandon the rest of his full-attack and take a move action instead, to get away from the stinky orc corpse.

As a side note, Sparky could have done the same thing using his unarmed strike, instead of his claws, though without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, he would still provoke an attack of opportunity. Even though he's holding the charge on a touch spell, the action would still provoke because Sparky's unarmed strike normally does[2c].

Part 2: Player Two has Joined the Battle!

Melvin the Magus has arrived to show Sparky how it's done. As a Magus, Melvin has access to Shocking Grasp, and can do everything Sparky just did, with the exception of growing claws. Instead of using his Claws, Sparky can use his Unarmed Strike, because he took the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for some reason. So you can repeat everything above with Melvin, just substitute an unarmed strike in place of the claws. (Applying two-weapon fighting penalties where appropriate)

Even though Melvin is a Magus, not a Sorcerer, he still follows all of those rules about Touch Attacks.

However, Melvin can do more than that. He's got Magus Stuff! He's level 1, so he only has Spell Combat, not Spellstrike. Ignore Spellstrike for now. Really, just ignore it, pretend you've never heard of it.

Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.

So we know the following:

Spell Combat is a full-round action. This means the only movement Melvin can make during Spell Combat is a 5' step, and he can do so before, during, or after the action.

One hand wields a weapon, the other hand is empty. Melvin has a Longsword.

When using Spell Combat, Melvin can make his normal full-attack with his weapon, and he can also cast a Magus spell with a casting time of 1 standard action. He can do this in any order, spell then sword, or sword then spell.

So, lets start off easy.

Melvin is surprised by Clunky the Orc! Clunky the orc uses his surprise round to move in next to Melvin. (He doesn't charge because there's a rock in the way) Round 1: Melvin takes a full-round action to use Spell Combat. He starts by casting Shield, and doing so defensively. He makes his concentration check, so now he has a shield bonus to AC. Great. Now he makes his normal full-attack with his weapon. He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Melvin has 12 Strength, and he also includes his -2 penalty for using Spell Combat. His result is 13, d'oh. Clunky has an AC of 14, so Melvin has missed. Clunky attacks Melvin, missing, because Clunky sucks.

Round 2: Melvin decides to put the hurt on Clunky. He takes a full-round action to use Spell Combat. He starts by making his regular attack, foolishly believing that it might kill Clunky and save him a spell. Melvin makes his normal full-attack with his weapon. He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Melvin has 12 Strength, and he also includes his -2 penalty for using Spell Combat. His result is 16, hooray. Clunky has an AC of 14, so Melvin hits. Melvin deals 1d8+1 damage. Clunky still stands! He laughs, in fact. Ha HA! But Melvin isn't done yet, he still gets to cast a spell because he's using Spell Combat. He casts Shocking Grasp, defensively. Melvin makes his Concentration check. Now, we follow the rules above for Touch Spells. Because Melvin just cast a Touch spell, he gets a free touch attack[1a]. He reaches out and touches Clunky. He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Melvin has 12 Strength, and he also includes his -2 penalty for using Spell Combat. His result is 11, that is... acceptable. Clunky's Touch AC is 10 so Melvin lands his touch, and discharges the Shocking Grasp. Zap!

With the death of Clunky, Melvin goes up a level! (DING) In addition to some stat changes and stuff, Melvin gains the ability to use Spellstrike.

Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

So we know the following:

In order to use Spellstrike, the following conditions must be met - A) Melvin must have cast the spell. B) The spell must have a range of "touch". C) The spell must be on the Magus spell list.

Once A, B, and C have been met, then Spellstrike may apply. If any of those three conditions are not met (such as casting a Cleric spell, or using a wand to cast a Magus spell) then Spellstrike will not work.

So, Melvin decides to cast Shocking Grasp, which is a Touch spell, and on the Magus spell list. Excellent. What now?

Now, Melvin can deliver that spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. He does not have to! He "can" deliver it, meaning it's his choice. He still has all of the options listed above to deal with delivering his spell just like Sparky.

But why be a Magus if you're just going around groping orcs? Bah! Put them to the sword! So, what does Spellstrike actually do?

It lets you deliver that touch spell through a weapon, as part of a melee attack. This means multiple things:

1) You use a weapon, not your touch. Any bonuses you have using that weapon will apply. Magic enhancement bonuses, weapon focus, etc.

2) The attack will be against the opponents normal AC, not his Touch AC. This usually means the opponent will be harder to hit.

3) When you land the attack, you deal weapon damage in addition to discharging the spell.

4) The attack has a critical threat range based on the weapon used. Melvin's longsword threatens a critical hit on a roll of 19–20. If Melvin confirms a critical hit when using Spellstrike, both the weapon damage AND the spell damage will double. (If Melvin was using a Battleaxe instead of a Longsword, the spell damage would still only double, even though the Battleaxe is an x3 weapon)

Sparky walks up, demanding an explanation. "So when can this happen? It says something in there about a free attack! What the heck, dude?"

It's simple. Any time Melvin could normally deliver a touch spell, he has the option of using his sword to do so. This means 1-4 above will apply. The rules for Spellstrike specifically call out being able to use Spellstrike in place of the free attack granted from casting the spell. (Remember point [1a] from the very top?) However, that is not a limitation, that is just point out that, in addition to being able to deliver his normal touch spells with his sword, he ALSO can deliver the FREE touch spell granted by casting it. If the rules did not spell this out, it would not be clear that Melvin is able to swing his sword more than once per round. This point is important, and it's thrown a lot of people off-track.

So, once more, all those times that Sparky could deliver his touch spell? (Free attack from casting, touch attack with held charge, full-attack with held charge and weapons) Melvin can do all of those things, and he ALSO has the option of doing any or all of those things with his sword, instead of his hand or claw or fist. That is what Spellstrike does.

Spellstrike is not an action. It's not a 'free' attack. It's not anything. All it does is let you use your sword instead of your hand.

Simple example time:

Bumpy the Orc appears, and he wants revenge! He stands 30 feet from Melvin, and calls him a sissy. Round 1: Melvin casts Shocking Grasp, which is a touch spell, and on the magus spell list. (A, B, and C fulfilled!). Melvin then moves 30 feet to get adjacent to Bumpy. Now, Melvin has a free attack as a result of casting the spell[1a]. He has two options: He can make a melee touch attack against Bumpy's Touch AC. This is more likely to hit, but all it will do it Zap Bumpy, and it will only critically hit if Melvin rolls a 20. His other option is to use Spellstrike to deliver that touch with his sword. That's what he's going to do! He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Melvin has 12 Strength, adds another 1 because he has +1 BAB. His result is 17, quite good. Clunky has an AC of 14, so Melvin hits. Melvin now deals weapon damage (1d8+1) and discharges Shocking Grasp, Zap!

Now, I know what you're thinking. "That's too easy. I fully understand how touch spells work, and those magus abilities make sense! My noodle is not yet baked!"

Well hold your horses. You have yet to experience the brain-melting horror that is Combining Spell Combat with Spellstrike! Tables have been flipped, Mountain Dew bottles scattered to the four winds, and DMs everywhere have torn out hair by the fistful, by simply trying to figure out how exactly this all works. But not you! No! You have the benefit of a full understanding of Touch Spells. You know how to Hold the Charge. You understand in what cases can someone discharge those touch spells. You even know what Spellstrike does, and that's a heck of an accomplishment. So lets put them all together.

The heavens crack, lighting lines the horizon. Stumpy the Orc teleports in from the Plane of Orcs, intent on destroying Melvin, then taking Sparky as his wife.

It's too bad Melvin beat him on initiative.

Melvin takes a full-round action to use Spell Combat. Remember that Spell Combat grants him a full-attack with his weapon, and also lets him cast a Standard action spell. Melvin chooses to start with his spell. He casts Shocking Grasp, defensively. He makes his concentration check. Now, as part of casting a Touch spell, Melvin gets a free touch attack.[1a] Because he has Spellstrike, he can (and will) choose to deliver that attack with his sword. He rolls this attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Melvin has 12 Strength, adds another 1 because he has BAB+1, and he also includes his -2 penalty for using Spell Combat. His result is 12. Outrage! Stumpy has an AC of 16, so Melvin has missed. If Melvin had managed to hit, he would have dealt weapon damage as well as discharging the Shocking Grasp. But he didn't. Boo. So, that takes care of the free attack granted by casting a Touch spell. But Melvin isn't done yet, this is Spell Combat, so he still gets to make a full-attack with his weapon. And, he hasn't discharged that shocking grasp, yet. Melvin makes his normal full-attack with his weapon. He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Melvin has 12 Strength, adds another 1 because he has BAB+1, and he also includes his -2 penalty for using Spell Combat. He rolls a 19, which is a critical threat, and enough to beat Stumpy's AC! Melvin will hit for sure, but first will roll to confirm his critical hit. He rolls again, with the same bonuses and penalties. 17! Melvin has confirmed the critical hit! Melvin rolls his weapon damage twice (1d8+1, and 1d8+1) then rolls his Shocking Grasp damage twice, Zap! Stumpy is no more.

So here's some things we've learned.

Spellstrike does not grant you an extra attack. You still have the exact same number of attacks (d20's rolled) as you would without it.

You may get an extra attack when using Spell Combat over making a regular full-attack, but ONLY if the spell you cast has an attack roll.

When Melvin reaches a BAB of +6 (at level 8 unless he multiclasses) he will get two attacks during a full-attack routine. One at full BAB, and one at BAB-5. (+6/+1) This means that if he uses Spell Combat, he still gets to make his full-attack in addition to casting a spell. And if that spell grants him an attack, then that's three attacks that turn. All of which are at -2 penalty from Spell Combat. Same thing if someone casts Haste.

One final note about my attack roll numbers, and Shocking Grasp. You'll note that Shocking Grasp says you get a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor or carrying a metal weapon. The orcs in my examples were all shamefully nude (or wearing leather, if the reader is under 18). While this bonus certainly applies to touch attacks made to deliver Shocking Grasp, check with your DM to find out if he allows it on attacks made with Spellstrike. (Personally, I think that having to hit normal AC vs touch AC, combined with a Magus's generally lower to-hit and damage, makes the +3 not unbalanced with Spellstrike. Your DM may of course rule otherwise.)

Happy Zapping!


Godsdog10 wrote:
As I said, I will just create an NPC Magus and unleash her on the party. Once my friend sees it from the other side he will get it.

You've got to be careful in situations like this. The enemies are supposed to lose. They don't have a long life ahead of them, or three more encounters to prepare for. They have one shot at it, and in all likelihood, the PCs will kill them. They have no reason not to use every resource at their disposal. Should they drink the potion, or save it for later? Drink it, of course. Should they keep some spells in reserve, in case another tougher party of PCs stops by? No way. The PC magus can't do that, if he uses both of his spells in one encounter, he's pretty much gimped for the day.

Throwing a high burst damage resource-intensive NPC at the party to show them how a class is unbalanced may not be the best idea.


Good Lord, this game.

Ran into the Old Orc again, looking for a good death as usual. Playing another Orc, felt obligated to give it to him. Freaking dragon attacks us in the middle of our fight. Damn thing does a fly-by and then tries to land on top of us. Both of us tear into the thing and as it swipes and bites back. Then a damn bear rumbles into our moving battle, first attacking Old Orc and then me after I took a swing at him. I can't even see Old Orc anymore because I've got a face full of BEAR and that dragon is still thrashing around next to it. Moment I kill the bear, the dragon keels over and reveals Old Orc, still alive with some decent health left. So we immediately continue where we left off.

Dude is going to be rubbing his death in other dead orc's faces for eons. His last words being the "GOOD ENOUGH!" line just made it that much more awesome.

Also, that damn dead dragon in Whiterun is STILL there and I know it's intentionally trolling the citizens there. Different pose each time, and the jerkass manages to get himself tangled up in the covered walks at the city gates. He's doing this on purpose, I just know it.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

I have a heavily mounted party, and pretty much everybody can move and full attack except for the two-weapon fighter. We're currently in an argument about whether he can use his ability ... Double Strike, Twin Strike? ... during a Charge.

The issue is what kind of action charging on a mount takes. Some members of the group believe that the mount uses the Charge action, and you receive benefits and penalties (+2 att, -2 AC, can only make one attack) but can otherwise still take a Full-Round Action. As such, Fighter-player thinks he can legally hit an opponent with two lances.

Other members believe that the rider and mount are both Charging as their Full-Round Action, and as such, is incompatible with him using a Standard action for Double Strike.

Ignoring game mechanics and just approaching it logically, it makes sense to me -- he charges in and strikes simultaneously with two weapons. But I am a little concerned about the game-effect of allowing another player to move in and get two double-damage attacks, in a party that already relies on Pounce, spellcasting, and single x3 damage lance strikes respectively.


Just moving the thread over here as promised, as these products-in-the-works, are now separate and distinct from their Sinister roots.

Damon Griffin wrote:

Repeating this part of my previous post as it got lost in the shuffle. If there's someplace else I can go to read about it myself, just point me there --

I wasn't previously aware of it but this KUG thing, specifically a Pathfinder edition thereof, sounds like it could be very cool. Is it "near future/near space" (say within 50 LY) or does it cover a significant portion of the galaxy? Does it reference actual nearby stars appropriately or jump straight out to unknown reaches, in the manner of Star Trek, Babylon 5 and indeed most SF TV series? I confess I would prefer a "near space" grounding though not have the setting limited to that.

Oops - sorry to miss this in the shuffle. The KUG is sandbox space opera/space horror with a drizzle of both cyberpunk and the truly alien. It's set in its own corner of the universe. Sorry, but its not near future/near space. It is, however, grounded in hard science and set in a barred spiral galaxy. Technology has been set so that as you tool between the inhabited zone (an area centered on a barbell shaped zone at the galactic core) and the frontier (a cubic region enclosing the barbell) travel times are roughly equivalent to Age of Sail travel times.

Venturing beyond the frontier to the tip of one of the two unexplored galactic arms and back might take a decade, round trip -- and no one lives who has ever done so. No one credible. After all who believes that crazy old ancient mariner with the funny black alien tentacle leaking from the back of his head?

The farther one ventures from the civilized bar at galactic core, the stranger and less predictable the cold void grows.


Hitdice wrote:

This about to get stupidly technical, considering we're discussing Star Wars, but the rebellion weren't terrorists. Enemy military personnel die in military actions.

If you're equating terrorism with actions against civilians, the population of Alderaan would like a word with you about about the Empire's tactics.

You would prefer another target, a military target? Then name the system! I grow tired of asking this so it will be the last time: *Where* is the rebel base?

Paizo Employee (Technical Director)

People keep asking for art books, and we keep saying that they don't sell. This may be your one and only chance to prove us wrong on that.


Well, its a ghost, give it telekinesis and have it move the item somewhere else =) Won't those bastages that bound him here be anoyed to find out he left with their McGuffin.

Seriosly though, if you want to make this an interesting challenge, its all about the room the item is in. We'll assume for sake of argument that the guys that killed him looted his body, but burried him with a holy symbol (else he won't be able to cast spells at all). Also, assume he can cast no spell with an expensive material component, as he won't have any of those.

Here's an example of how to make the fight challenging.

Lets go with the top end, CR 11, that'd be a level 10 cleric ghost. We'll give him a base charisma of 14 and a wisdom of 18.

Give said cleric the War Domain and Madness.
Feats. Dodge, Mobility, Eschew Materials (else he will be able to cast almost nothing), +whathaveyou (metamagic good, but really it should be whatever feats were his in life)

He gets 3 special ghost attacks.

Corrupting Touch (cause you have to)
Frightful Moan
Telekineses

He's a cleric, and despite being a ghost, has alot of things he could have done to prepare this room for defense, so do so.

Stone Shape/Wall of Stone (as many as needed) to create a pit/moat reshaping the removed stone into a little stone bunker around the object he is protecting on a little island in the middle (make said bunker look like an alter). If possible, get a dead body (preferably a beautiful young female child), put her body on the alter, keep her fresh via Gentle Repose forever. Dress her in finery, perhaps a tiera, etc... as long as she looks like someone important. (This might help avoid AE spells if the PC's don't want to burn up the poor hapless lass on the alter, but mostly its just a distraction, to keep them guessing and for spooky wtf flavor).

Add in a number of 5x5 stone blocks around the room, coming up from the floor and down from the ceiling, and out from the walls (for the ghost to move into and out of without having to cross lots of open space)

Fill the moat/pit with water... not sure if you can corrupt this water somehow, but since it can't flow anywhere, it'll get foul enough on its own =)

Add any other spooky elements you want, desicated bodies (whole or in part) laying about, et al.

Then wait for unsuspecting PC's...

Some pre-buffing if possible:
Eagle's Splendor, Owl's Wisdom, Shield of Faith

Then when the PC's show up, cast the following spells while out of their sight:
Deeper Darkness (optionaly Heightened to a 4th level spell so it can't be countered by Daylight: requires one metamagic feat on ghost). (assuming there not all dwarves or something where not being able to see well will help)
Mayhap an Unholy Blight, just for fun.
(Basicaly, just a few greeting spells to get them on their guard... because you want them with their weapons out ready to go)

Then you hit them with the Frightful Moan, DC 19 Will. Any who fail, DROP what they are holding (weapons, wands, all that good stuff) and flee.

Cast Obscuring Mist so they can't tell what's happening next (preferably quickened)

As soon as some are out of the room and mist is up, drop a wall of stone in the doorway so they can't get back. Then proceed to telekinesis all the dropped items into the moat (those in the room, won't see most of this, just hear some splashing)

Activate your Madness domain ability (Aura of Madness) assuming theirs a few folks still in the room.

Activate your War domain ability (Weapon Master) and give yourself the Spring Attack feat.

Then go to town on who's left....
partial move, Corrupting Touch, remainder of move back into a wall (or floor!). Repeat add nausium (or at least 10 times, when your domain power runs out and you can't use Spring Attack anymore)

They'll have to ready actions to combat this tactic and the fog will make it hard to tell where the ghost is before its gone again.

And this is without even using the vast majority of the cleric spells you could toss out.

Incorporeal foes suck! =)


Masochism for Fun and Profit
A Paladin Optimization Guide

Introduction

Inspired by the excellent Treatmonk guidebooks, I decided to do one up for the front-line player in all of us. Like Treatmonk, I tend to play for high-power, and before Pathfinder Society you never would see me put out a guide for any melee class. Times have changed, the Paladin probably gained more than any other class in conversion over. Now, instead of being a bad secondary healer/tank, they are excellent and effective Masochist Tanks.

A few things to know about me

*I don't play past level 15, and recently past level 12. I am firmly a Living Campaign player; as you get older it just gets harder to keep a home campaign together and running consistently. Even back when I had the 13-year home campaigns running, we would stop somewhere in the 12-16 range... after that the game simply gets silly. Oh, I've had the odd 1-or-2 session campaign where we built the most powerful gods we could at high level just to strut our stuff, but that gets old quick for me. So high level content, if included at all, will be mentioned briefly and entirely theorized
*I generally play front line caster types, most notably druids and clerics; though recently I've expanded to bards and paladins because of their great PF upgrades. So while I have much appreciation for the Sorcerer or Wizard of the party, I'm not that guy.
*Like Treatmonk, I believe it to be the most fun to play a character who is good at his role. Most consider me a great role-player, but that's not what this is about; it's about making sure you can do what a paladin does best.

With all that said, on to the guide.

Masochist Tanking

So why is it masochist tanking? Well, generically, Paladins are able to take blows better than anyone; even a comparitvely same-level fighter. Why, you may ask? Simply put, they have the best saves in the game, and they have Lay on Hands, a power that has converted into the only combat healing that should ever be done.

See, like Treatmonk, I agree that the WAY overplayed healer is a total waste of the party resources. While the rare combat healing might be necessary, it's not going to outdo the damage that monsters are made to dish out. So everyone needs to be able to contribute their fair share.

So, with that said, unlike the regular fighter, you use this free healing and con as your secondary stat to get more damage through. Monsters see themselves hitting, so they target you more. Everyone is happy; you have effectively the most HP possible, and the best saving throws in the game, so the more you are hit the happier you are. Masochism indeed.

Your Role – and Roleplaying

Well, if you read a Treatmonk guide, you may be asking what role the paladin plays. You get to play the Big Stupid Fighter in spades, but you also to a lesser extent get to play the Fop. You don't have skill points to really spare (some builds may only get 1 skill point a level, thanks to the “Intelligence Dump Stat” syndrome), so you have to pick and choose what to play.

Now, with that said, we'll address something that must be talked about: Roleplaying a paladin. Usually this wouldn't come up in an optimization guide, but many people cringe at the idea of having a paladin in the party because of how people typically roleplay their restrictions. Paladins can be as if not more fun than any other class, and can be fun to have around and share ideas with. Here are the various potential Paladin roleplayings:

The Prick: Sadly, 90% of the Paladins I've seen are playing this role. You tell people they can't do things because it's a violation of your conduct. You try to force the lawful good values, and refuse to kill anyone who's surrendered to you, causing awkward attempts to take prisoners to jails they'll no doubt overpower and take over. At the most extreme, you enter booming a challenge at everyone and refuse to take advantage of the act of suprise (this is referred to affectionately as “Lawful Stupid). It's a terrible person to have in the party; it's both cumbersome (where do you keep all that rope?) and annoying. If you see party members starting to whisper behind your back and plan things without you because they don't want to argue every night, or if god forbid you start rolling initiative to see if someone gets killed (I've seen this on more than one occasion), than you are The Prick. Take a deep breath, and explore other options.

The Valkyrie (or Avenger): Think Judge Dread, or Avenging Angels, or Batman. You are here for a purpose, and you will not accept surrender as an option. You will let the party generally work in whatever parameters they want, including setting traps and taking the enemy by surprise, as long as they are brought to justice and no innocents are hurt. When you are talking with enemies, you don't talk nice, you strike PURE FEAR into their hearts (high skill:Intimidate). When you find their head, you will not accept surrender for the terrible deeds they have done.

The Valkyrie tends to push the bounds of Lawful Good; they are the purest form of Lawful, with a desire to bring back order to society. They will not compromise situations to hurt innocents, but by the same token they take a hard hand to enemies. The party will actually accept you into their plans; they aren't going to have to plan behind you in order to use poisons or traps or lying to get what they need from enemies.

The Innocent Idealist: Far from the Avenger, the innocent idealistic is the most gullible person on the planet. Always have a smile on your face, and believe everything told to you (and go out of your way to make it clear you will take anything said at face value). Talk in a Tiny Tim style accent if you can.

The Idealist embraces the low Wisdom expected of today's Paladin (yay dump stats) with the loveable, high charisma found within Paladins. People know they can get away with things, just by keeping you distracted or fooled; you'll never role Sense Motive on them. So again, you are kept within and people find you fun rather than a burden.

The Tai Master: Usually reserved for Monks and Clerics, the Tai master will never impose their harsh standards on anyone else. They will offer suggestions in the “How do you feel about this?” style (think “New Age” people). If the person decides for themselves to take the good path, give them a smile and small words to encourage them in the future. If not, say nothing negative at all... remember their path to enlightenment may be far away from yours.

The Tai Master works great for Lawful Good clerics, where I have played one successfully. Unlike the other roles, he is often able to get the group to gradually change to more good ways; it's human nature to like the encouragement given. The only reason I add caution to this is it is hard to justify with a low wisdom, and sadly dump stats are necessary for an effective paladin. But if you can deal with not quite playing your scores, or de-optimizing a bit for roleplaying purposes, the Master is a great choice that everyone will be able to get along with.

Various Roles For a Paladin:

So unlike most caster types, Paladins really do two things, and they do the very well: They take damage and dish it out. The more attacks you can get coming your way, the better off your party is. Your saves are LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than everyone elses; you have two good saves in the most important areas, and you get ~+3 (and after stat items +4-+6) to all saves. You have continual hp regeneration on tap (1d6 per 2 levels you've achieved; as a swift action). So really all that is left is to pick a way to make things WANT to attack you.

First, what is better left to others

You are not the AC fighter. Oh sure, you are proficient with heavy armor, and the archer build even has a pretty good dexterity. But they get all the armor optimizations that make this work well, and they have the feats to spare if they really want them to grab dodge and armor specialization and whatever to work with them.

You are not the two weapon fighter. Just way too many feats, and the payoff is very low. Without precision damage two-handed fighters just tend to do less than these guys; and getting two magical weapons is way too expensive for a melee type.

You are not the combat maneuver specialist. This role has really downgraded in PF to begin with (Trip and Grapple are nowhere close to what they used to be), and you certainly don't have the spare feats.

So what does that leave:

The archer. Archer paladins are surprisingly good. If you're not a Human you'll probably want to take 3rd level as a Fighter just so you have both Precise and Rapid Shot lined up by 3rd level; otherwise your effectiveness at low levels will drop. But this class eventually has the highest AC, and is not subject to having to close like most fighters; this means they get to full attack every round.

The charger. Want to be the charger? Here's a hint you'll learn from 3.5: Be a small character. You heard right, I'll talk more later, but Gnomes and Halflings make by far the best lance chargers. Why? Because Medium mounts are far easier to maneuver around in dungeons. The charger is great because of maneuverability; with high-speed full frontal attacks that can leave opponents prone and bleeding badly.

The two-handed swinger. Takes very few feats, and has great damage output. This class is great at getting into people's faces and making them deal with you, which makes it a default role. One of the issues is as a Paladin you really can't spread specialization, so it will be hard when fights go to range/flight. So at low and mid levels this class IS the best, but will find itself quickly outpaced by the other two roles.

Race Selection:

The Paladin is suprisingly diverse; each of the 3 roles has a very different race that it would like, and a few fine fallbacks if you want to play them for roleplaying purposes.

Human: +2 Strength (or Dex for the Archer) and a free much-needed feat make Humans an EXCELLENT choice for paladins. This is right after the Halfling for the best role for The Archer (and unlike Halfling doesn't need a level of fighter), and is the best two-handed swinger.

Half-Elf: Generally a little worse than a human because of being feat-starved, the Skill Focus makes it handy for those who want to be able to pick up UMD, but in general I would skip this.

Half-Orc: Orc Ferocity is better for you than anyone else; thanks to your ability to heal without pausing. And darkvision is awesome to have on tap. Again though, the feats are needed, so if you want +2 to any stat, I'd generally good human. Still, they are an excellent second option for two-handed swingers.

Gnomes: By far the best charger, the Gnome gives you 2 of your 3 excellent stats. Sadly they take a hit in Strength (which sucks hardcore; you'll be working hard to make up for that). But higher hp than anyone else and a nice Charisma bump makes them hold better; I give them the nod over

Halfling: My pick for best archers, they get the 2 most important stats, +1 to AC, and +1 to hit with those bows. The speed 15 is much less relevant for archers; and not much of a step-down from speed 20 anyway. Eventually you'll be in a Mithril Chain Shirt anyway; so you'll get a little back.

Dwarf: Just... no. I know they're good in WOW, but seriously, nothing going for them.

Class Features:

Not color coded unless you get a choice, usually with Paladins (unlike casters) you take what you can get.

Detect Evil at will: This is known in my campaigns as the “Paladar”. While it doesn't work in all situations, it often makes up for a lack of perception by being able to see through doors that bad guys are in position. Concentrate the 3 rounds, get their general positions, alert the party, and open up. Don't use this as a justification to kill things, but do use it to see whether an NPC generally can be trusted. After all, they don't know you're using it, and direct target takes only 1 round to get all the info.

Smite Evil: Oh god. This is the bread and butter of Paladins. +3-+6 to all attacks, add your level to damage (twice vs certain very powerful things... at mid to high levels evil outsiders are typical default adversaries). Nothing can take out BBEG quite like this, and now it works on your archery too. You'll do exactly what the Paladin is supposed to do, make the biggest threat focus fire on YOU. And you'll make the rest of the party look like chumps.

The ability to spend 2 Smites to call Alpha Strike for the party can be OK; it gets better as you have more party members focused on melee. In a general party build (Tank, Skill Guy, God, Divine Combatant/Pokemaster), you don't get quite as much use, though it's great to tell the God and Pokemaster to summon out d3+1 allies (a summon 2 levels lower) and give each of them +5 to hit and +11 damage on all attacks against BBEG,

Divine Grace – The primary reason The Masochist does so well. Other tanks are often removed from combat too easily by saves, but not you. Hello, free cloak of protection that stacks with other cloaks.

Lay on Hands – Read as “Fast Healing”. Ever using this on someone else is a waste of an action unless they are unable to take actions (and we'll be taking those that remove actions above the rest).

Aura of Courage / Immune to Disease / Eventually Aura of Resolve – Free immunities are always good, and while diseases are generally easily cured, it's nice to know you won't have the expense.

Mercys – Having accepted that healing someone else is generally a waste, we'll focus mostly on getting rid of things that hurt us

3rd level – Fatigued, Shaken, Sickened. Get what you want to cure off yourself for 9th level, both Fatigued and Sickened are good choices. Shaken you're immune to fear, and giving others a bonus, so ignore it.

6th level – Dazed, Diseased, Staggered – While Staggered comes up less often than Dazed, you can't cure yourself of Dazed. Still, Dazed isn't an awful decision; I'm fine with healing if someone else is missing an action and you feel their action is more important than yours.

9th level – Cursed, Exhausted, Frightened, Nauseated, Poisoned. Cursed and Poisoned are generally a waste (Poison it's too late; they already have the damage and ability damage). Frightened you are immune to; so take whatever is lined up with your 3rd level ability.

12th level – Paralyzed, Stunned, Deafened, Blinded – The ruling is unclear whether you can cure yourself of Paralyzed... it technically is only mental, but you have to have a hand on yourself at the time? Regardless, Paralyzed and Stunned are similar, and come up about as often; it really is your call. The other two are nice and can be self-cured, but ultimately you and others can operate with them up. Deafened is generally a waste to cure.

Channel Positive Energy – It's a lie. Don't believe it. Absolute emergency case, eats your action and 2 of your lay on hands.

Spells – You get none. Next

Oh, OK... they get spells, kinda. Their spell list is even less useful than the Rangers, the only reason you like it is after battle you can pick up wands of cure light wounds and Divine Favor. Treant's done a fine job of most spells, so I will give you some good choices, and talk about a few, and you can read his choice.

Divine Favor – Take it, live it, love it. Even with your reduced caster level, an easy-to-stack bonus to attack AND damage, key for the paladin.
Bless Weapon – While confirming crits automatically can be fine, it's generally not worth passing up Divine Favor for. This is handy for facing demons when you don't want to Smite, but by then you should have a holy weapon around (or be able to pull one up)

Shield Other – Be careful with this one, but it is handy, lasts forever, and lets you heal up. I like this as an archer, since you might not have as much of an opportunity to soak damage for some of the squishier types

Resist Energy – Good thing to randomly keep around

By the time you can cast 2nd level spells you should have at least a +2 or +4 stat item, so Bull's Strength/Eagle's Splendor aren't as exciting.

3rd level is almost a total waste for paladin. Take a few utility spells, GMW should be left to the cleric because it is highly level dependent.

I've never seen 4th level spells from Pallys in play, but I know Dispel Evil/Chaos are always nice.

Divine Bond

Here you've got an interesting choice. For low-level campaigns, I recommend the animal companion; if you're going to be going high, the Mercy is handy. Animal companions with intelligence are great, and a horse's attack actually does a fair bit of damage. If possible, request the exotics like a tiger at level 7; Pounce AND it looks way cool to ride a tiger (you see it on fantasy covers all the time) Your small sized companion can take a dog; which is handy for riding through dungeons.

At high is when the weapon would truly shine. At level 12, a Pally with a friendly cleric casting GMW can effectively have a +9 weapon.

That's base (+1 Holy) – 18,000 GP, easily afforded
GMW - +3 Holy for 12 hours (+5 Weapon, worth 50K)
+3 Holy Flaming Merciful Keen (+8 weapon worth 128,000 GP) 3 times / day for 12 minutes/use

So you can see it adds to his damage output significantly. Still, animal companions offer you a far higher movement; and if you are in an awkward situation for them to move (tunnels, for instance) you can unsummon and resummon them with no worries. Note this is also a handy way to cure them, making them more useful than the druid's animal companion.

I won't go into the high level stuff, though DR is always nice at 17th. Still DR 5 doesn't seem really worth anything by then.

Stat Blocks

Halfling Archer: Str: 12 (5 pt) Int 7 (-4 Pt) Wis 7 (-4 Pt) Dex: 19 (13 pt) Con: 14 (5 pt) Chr: 16 (5 points). While you lose out a little bit on strength bows, +1 to hit is very nice, and eventually you'll make it up. All bumps go to Dex. Because it is readily active, and because you can't fight alongside the animal companion, I am generally going to recommend the take the Divine Bond. That damage boost is nice when you can use it every round multiple times. +1 = Mercy (even as a killer, it's a d6 untyped damage) +2 = Mercy Flaming, +3 = Mercy Holy (or Axiomatic, or Mercy Flaming Burst; as appropriate). Your generic bow should be +1 (then +1 Shocking, then +1 Shocking Frost), as you want the damage bonuses at all times.
Feats to 12: 1st: Point Blank 3rd (Fighter Level): Precise Shot, Rapid Shot 6th level – Deadly Aim 9th – Weapon Focus (Composite Short Bow) 12th – Improved Precise Shot

Wish List (in order): Belt of Dex, Headband of Charisma, A Magic Bow, + Resistance Item, Gloves of Archery when they become affordable or you find some. Eventually get around to that Magical Mithral Armor if it's around and spare, otherwise just run around in Full plate and be happy (just because you can't apply your dex bonus doesn't mean you have to wine about it; you still get it with your bow).

Gnome Charger: Str: 15 (13 points) Int 7 (-4 Points) Wis 7 (-4 Points) Dex 10 (0 Points) Con: 16 (5 Points) Chr 18 (10 points). Sucks to see that 15 for 13 points doesn't it? Well, don't sweat it; being able to lance through dungeons because your mount is small more than makes up for it. Add to the fact that your mount can trip opponents and you have a nasty little combination. Larger chargers ARE better in outdoor-only settings, but being able to transverse dungeons makes up for damage. And as far as damage output, these guys charge in with their lance and triple up damage, which can be great.

Necessary Skills: Handle Animal, Ride. Yes, because of our intelligence, this means you are going to not get the free hp every level; but the Con makes up for that; and it is a cheaper buy than keeping int at 10. All boosts go to Str

Feats: 1st – Power Attack 3rd – Spirited Charge k 6th – Vital Strike (yay more multipliers) 9th – Ride-By Attack 12th – Improved Toughness

Just make sure your party knows to leave you a charge line, it can be trickier in dungeon settings, but again with a medium base it's not so bad.

Wish List: Headband of Strength, Magic Lance, Headband of Charisma, Cloak of Resistance, Magic Barding for Animal Companion, Magical Amulet for companion

Human Two-Hander: Str: 19 (13 pts) Int: 7 Wis: 7 Dex: 10 (You have HP For that) Con: 14 (5) Chr: 16 (10).

I still recommend the animal companion, though don't ride the thing; ask for the recommended Boar or better still, a Lion; and go Druid on the opponents. Even Horses can give flank and output some damage. This is certainly the most debatable one though; big damage keywords can be nice too.

Feats: 1st – Power Attack 3rd – Weapon Focus (Greatsword) 6th – Vital Strike 9th – Improved Critical – GreatSword 12th – BlindFighting (you start needing this here).

Wish List: Headband of Strength, Big, Powerful Sword, Headband of Charisma, Cloak of Resistance, maybe some armor one day.

So there you are, my justice loving friend. Go out there and show them the new power of the most improved class in Pathfinder.


I once had a female elf cleric with the Sun and Glory domains/master of radiance going through the ruins of Myth Drannor trying to hunt down a moonblade. We were in a wild magic zone. Cue APL+6 undead encounter that was a vampire and a horde of itty-bitties. I succeeded the spot check, won initiative, OHKO'ed the vampire with a critical searing light, did a swift greater turn and blew away all the lesser undead. My character never broke stride.

[...and that was how that character got the nickname Uber-Buffy.]

In the loot was an intelligent rapier of something absolutely badass that was being wielded by the vampire. My response was roughly "screw you guys, I just one-shot the CR 15 encounter, that sword is MINE!". Flush with my own success and feeling invulnerable, I grabbed the rapier and kicked down the door to the next room...which had an empowered fireball trap. Come to find out the rapier was cursed and doubled incoming fire damage, and I flubbed my Reflex save.

250 fire damage to the face. My Cleric had 60. That's when the DM rolled a couple more dice and started laughing so hard he fell out of the chair.

The party started talking amongst themselves trying to figure out what to do since they were b#+*#&%@-deep in Myth Drannor and now had no healer or wizard to teleport them out. About a minute later, the entire party was back in the previous room, including my character who having no knowledge of the event triggered the same fireball trap and died a second time. This happened a couple more times before the party's sorcerer figured out I had triggered a time loop wild magic surge.

The party spent about an hour out of game trying to figure out how to break the time loop. They tried convincing me to not open the door (didn't work). They tackled my character and tied her up, and set the artificer (closest thing we had to a rogue) to opening the door...which he failed repeatedly. They tried dispelling and triggered the trap. Every time, my character got caught in the blast and incinerated. Finally, whereabouts of disable device check #3 (something like #10 in total) the artificer rolled high enough between a couple people aiding him and a Guidance of the Avatar to successfully disarm the trap.

The next room had a marilith in it.


We had some of those.

GM: "You see one of the Skymages land on the main plaza with his large big black dragon and storm inside."
Player: "Sweet, I hop up and give it the spurs"

GM: "It eats you"
Is what should have happened.
Instead, other characters who knew a bit more about dragons held him back. Spoilsports.

And then there was this, happening inside a mind flayer fortress
GM: "You enter the room. It's about 3m on a side, and it contains nothing but table in the middle of the room with a bottle on top of it. The bottle is filled with a weird liquid."
Dwarf: "I bet it's wine. I walk up to the table and oneshot the bottle.
GM:
GM:
GM:
GM: "That's mind flayer wine. They drink it. They can drink it. It's not madly dangerous for them. For humanoids, one drop can drop you into a month-long coma. Please make an ass-full of saving throws"

And more:

GM: "You finally get the bars off the window, you put your head out of the window and look down. And down. About 70m down, you see the deep, cold ocean."
Player: "I jump! Freedom, here I come!"
GM: "Alright, it actually takes a while for you to reach the water, which receives you with all the gentleness of concrete, but that's okay, you can't swim, anyway."
Player: "Hey look, my character can actually climb!"
The whole table: "...."

Even more:
GM: "Alarmed by the considerable noise, you manage to get off the road and hide in the shrubbery. Not too early, just as you get into hiding, a minotaur army rounds the corner. You guess about 100 minotaur soldiers, some of them are probably elite warriors judging from their better gear, while others wear shamans' ceremonial garb."
Paladin: "Those are evildoers, I may not let them pass! I walk onto the road and tell them to stop in the name of the King."

To his credit, they took him somewhat seriously: They didn't just march right over him, but actually attacked him and transformed him into a fine red mist with minotaur-sized weapons and the shamans' flame strikes.


I suppose it boils down to whether you practice deontological ethics or utilitarian ethics.

To the utilitarian mind, Dexter Morgan(For the previous poster and any others not in the know, Dexter is the eponymous protagonist of the Showtime series whose schtick is killing serial killers. A fantastic watch if you've never seen it.) is absolutely Lawful Good. His actions show loyalty to code and family, while also smiting evil and protecting the innocent.

However, deontologically speaking, Dexter doesn't do so due to some personal moral compulsion. He goes over this several times in the series; he bends over backwards for Rita because she is necessary to maintain his facade of a normal human being. He occasionally makes off-hand statements about what the guilty deserve, not because of any personal compulsion but more as a conversation with himself about what a normal human being would feel. The books more capably demonstrate this than the show, but television requires a lead character we can at least somewhat root for.

In Dexter's heart/mind/soul (pick your metaphor), he doesn't do these actions because he's concerned for the victims. He does it because it satiates his need to kill. It's no more a morally driven act than when you or I drink to slake our thirst. Certainly, he's killing who we might deem the "right" people, but he's doing it for an evil end (the joy of killing) and for a practical reason. (Avoiding capture.)


APG, UM, UC, ARG.

Player options. Yep, they're good for NPC building too; although I'll offer that they don't have the same luster for the GM, who can simply make NPCs happen the way she wants.

The APG and UM are great books, and I'm certain that UC and the ARG will be also. But I can't keep up with all of these new options.

I think the GMs need some love. Books to help them run the game.

To that end, I submit the following as books that I would buy in a heartbeat, even if it meant forgoing beer for a week or so (serious stuff):

Pathfinder Treasury
Treasure generation sucks. We need a modular system to accommodate new treasure from new books, and to streamline the random generation process to account for how we actually need to place treasure in the game. Of course, the Treasury should compile items from the other books, include new item related rules, and maybe (hope against hope) a retooling of the craft rules.

Lots and lots of tables would be great, but only if they aid the GM. We really need to remove dead-end rolls from the treasure gen system. They're infuriating.

GameMastery Guide to NPCs
Statblocks. Site maps for prisons, town halls, temples, and other sites where NPCs lurk. Improved and expanded mechanics for social gameplay. A full-fledged contact system.

GameMastery Guide to High-level Play
13th-20th toolbox for GMs. In depth analysis of villain tactics, game changer spells, and adventure design. Optional rules to hack the game without changing the outcome (I always point to Trailblazer's iterative attack hackjob as a perfect example of what I'm looking for here). Of course, a chapter on 21st+ play as a teaser/pilot.

-

Any thoughts? Support/opposition to these ideas? Ideas of your own for GM support books?

I'd prefer if we dodge the default conversation about "hating new books" and "boycotting the game" and all that. I'm a customer, and I'm saying what I want, you should too.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Tales Subscriber)

Numeria exploration with a dip into spaaaaaace

Andoran (Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber)

Interplanetary Portal Adventure Path

(Publisher, Clockwork Gnome Publishing)

I know this is not a Paizo product, but if you are interested in third party publishers, Clockwork Gnome Publishing is set to do a book on fantasy space travel called Sailing the Starlit Sea.

Here is the description from the site:

The ultimate frontier is now open! Through the power of magic, a mighty age of space travel has emerged. Explore far-flung planets, encounter alien cultures, and uncover terrible secrets that have been forgotten under the crush of centuries. A universe of adventure awaits those who dare to sail amongst the stars.

Sailing the Starlit Sea includes:

  • Details on outer space and the hazards one must face in those cold, airless depths.
  • Rules and guidelines for magic-driven starships and other modes of interstellar travel.
  • A sample solar system with five planets and a host of smaller celestial bodies that can be easily dropped into any space fantasy campaign.
  • New creatures that originate from alien stars and planets.

    We are still settling on exactly what creatures will appear, but many of them will be inspired by classic sci-fi books and movies.

    Of course, if the Paizo project is an extensive exploration of space travel, then that changes things a bit. So we are in "wait and see" mode to determine how things will develop.


  • Rust monsters don't poop - they don't even have an anus. They are almost perfectly efficient at metabolizing oxidized metals, and have no water content in their bodies. The tiny amounts of residual non-ferrous material that remains in the oxidized pile created by the rust monsters rusting ability take two forms: hydrocarbons from oils and zinc.

    These hydrocarbon oils are stored in the body and lubricate the rust monsters internal functions (since they have no water in their bodies), such as muscles. These oils are drawn in a layer of specialized organs surrounding the stomach, and begin continuously working their way out of the creature's body. Eventually they are "sweated" out of the creatures pores, giving the creature's skin a waxy sheen.

    Meanwhile a second set of organs form ducts leading from the stomach to small (almost microscopic) vents along the creature's lateral lines. If you were to run your finger along this line, you would pick up a waxy, white residue. This is a combination of zinc and the oils mentioned above.

    This material, whitewax, is perhaps the finest sunblock in the world, but is produced in such small quantities that its harvest for commercial purposes is nearly impracticable. A "farm" of 50 rust monsters would produce a bottle with 5 uses every year, and the cost of feeding the creatures would make that bottle worth about 5000 gp. A single application of whitewax provides the benefits of an endure elements spell (hot environments only) for 24 hours, or until washed off with alcohol (whichever comes first).


    Mistress, I am saving one for you. Pay me when you can.

    (Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber)

    Mauril wrote:

    I'm hoping to include these guys in some adventure paths I hope to be writing soon, so I'm hoping to balance them around as typical a party as can be created.

    As far as groupings go, I was thinking something like: single, pair, pack (2d4+1) or war party (3d6, plus sundry devils).

    The simplest solution is a CR 14 bumped one size up and another +1 for the Ethereal creature template for a total of 16. Lemme see what I can come up with.

    EDIT: built on a refurbished advanced nalfeshnee with the ethereal creature template

    CR 16
    LE Huge Outsider (devil, evil, lawful, outsider)

    Space 15 ft / Reach 10 ft

    Senses: darkvision 60', ethersight, low-light vision, scent, see in darkness, true seeing: Perception +33, Survival +25

    Speed: 50 ft, fly 60 ft (average); Acrobatics +30 (+38 jumps), Fly +12

    Hit Points: 231 (77 {14d10 outisder HD} +154 Con bonus); DR 10/good; Immune: fire, poisons, sleep; Resist acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10; SR 27

    AC: 29, 26 flat-footed (touch +18 natural armor); Touch AC: 11, 8 ff
    CMD 42 (46 vs trip)

    Fort +20, Reflex +7, Will +19, +27 vs mind-affecting

    Base Attack +14

    • Melee +25 bite (4d6+22 plus trip)
    • CMB +29 (+33 trip)
    • Power Attack bite +21 (4d6+38 plus trip @ +29)

    SA: Anchoring Bite (those their bite deals damage to are dimensionally anchored for 8 rounds without saving throw), powerful bite

    Feats: Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Weapon (bite), Improved Vital Strike/Vital Strike, Iron Will, Power Attack (-4 attack = +12 damage)

    Spell-like Abilities: (CL 14th, concentration +22)

    • Constant: mind blank, true seeing
    • At Will: cure serious wounds (3d8+14, DC 21), dispel magic (+14), dismissal (DC 23), banishment (DC 24), ethereal jaunt (free action to move from ethereal plane into regular plane, move action to return to the ethereal)

    36 Str, 17 Dex, 33 Con, 24 Int, 26 Wis, 27 Cha

    Skills: Spellcraft +24; 112 remaining skill ranks to assign as you see fit - already have 14 ranks each in Acrobatics, Fly, Perception, Spellcraft and Survival; +8 racial bonus on Perception checks; remaining skill points are sufficient for an additional 6 skills at 14 ranks each.

    Languages: Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Daemonic, Draconic, Infernal, Protean, two others of choice; telepathy

    Tactics are pretty straightforward: bite, dim-anchor, trip is a bonus, move from ethereal, bite with improved vital strike (12d6+26, 16d6+52 on a confirmed crit - Power Attack is as above, just note the much higher damage pool thanks to Improved Vital Strike), move action back to ethereal. Move as necessary to maul thoroughly. Ideally they are encountered in even pairs to maximize maulings and 'rotate' which ones are 'exposed' and which are not.

    Whaddya think?


    I've built this new critter, but I'm not sure if it's balanced much yet. Any help/suggestions would be great.

    Gytrash, Phase Devil CR 16
    This huge caniform devil seems to peer with flame red eyes from the void. As suddenly as it appears, so it disappears; often leaving little but death in its wake.
    LE Huge Outsider (devil, evil, extraplanar, lawful)
    Init +4; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Low-Light Vision, Scent, See in Darkness; Perception +17
    --------------------
    DEFENSE
    --------------------
    AC 20, touch 12, flat-footed 16. . (+4 Dex, -2 size, +8 natural)
    hp 155 (3d10+99)
    Fort +16, Ref +11, Will +8
    DR 10/chaotic and good Immune fire, poison; Resist acid 15, cold 15, electricity 10; SR 26
    --------------------
    OFFENSE
    --------------------
    Spd 40 ft., Flight (80 feet, Good)
    Melee Bite +19 (4d6+10/20/x2) and
    Claw x2 +19 (3d6+10/20/x2)
    Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
    Special Attacks Ethereal Penetration, Punish Chaos (1/day), Punish Good (1/day), Undermining Touch
    Spell-Like Abilities
    Constant - Blink
    At-Will - Dimension Door (quickened; self only)
    3/day - Darkness, Poison (DC 20)
    1/day - Blasphemy (DC 23), Contagion (DC 20), Desecrate, Unholy Blight (DC 20)
    --------------------
    STATISTICS
    --------------------
    Str 30, Dex 18, Con 28, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 22
    Base Atk +11; CMB +23; CMD 37 (41 vs. Trip)
    Feats Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round), Improved Iron Will, Flyby Attack, Hover, Iron Will, Skill Focus: Diplomacy
    Skills Acrobatics +18, Appraise +13, Diplomacy +13, Fly +15, Intimidate +17, Perception +17, Sense Motive +12, Stealth +10, Survival +4, Use Magic Device +17 Modifiers +4 to Survival when tracking by Scent
    Languages Celestial, Draconic, Infernal; telepathy 100 ft

    --------------------
    SPECIAL ABILITIES
    --------------------
    Ethereal Penetration (Sp) A phase demon can make attacks with its natural attacks and supernatural abilities from the ethereal plane without any miss chance. Attacks from manufactured weapons do not benefit from this ability.
    Punish Good (Su) As a swift action, a phase demon may choose to add its Charisma modifier to damage on a successful attack against a good target.
    Punish Chaos(Su) As a swift action, a phase demon may choose to add its Charisma modifier to damage on a successful attack against a chaotic target.
    Undermining Touch (Su) A phase demon may make a melee touch attack which causes a creature to become shaken for a number of rounds equal to the phase demon's Charisma modifier. This attack may be used in place of a claw attack. As long as the creature is shaken from this ability, it radiates an aura of either good or chaos (chosen by the phase demon at the time of the attack). A successful Will save (DC 23) reduces this effect to one round. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this ability again for 1 day. A phase demon may use this ability a number of times per day equal to its Charisma modifier. The DC of the save is Charisma-based.

    These massive infernal hounds serve as guard dogs in the halls of the archdevils of Hell. Standing nearly 15 feet at the shoulder and weighing over 20,000 pounds, these massive canines command fear even from among the greater devils that seek audience with the archdevils. The phase demon exists partially in the ethereal plane at all times, giving its massive form a haunting translucency. From this veil, the phase demon can strike mercilessly at its foes while they flail hopelessly at its ethereal form.

    Paizo Employee (Creative Director)

    Kthulhu wrote:
    Hell, Lovecraft himself drew a quick sketch that showed the world that his artistic talents were almost entirely literary. :P

    Excellent point.

    Here's a link to that sketch.

    Looks like Lovecraft himself was fine with the fat humanoid octopus-headed bat-winged version of him. Can't get much more official than that!

    Shadow Lodge (Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber)

    cappadocius, I dunno why you are so hung up on the popularized conception of Cthulhu being Chaosium IP, but artwork that isn't all that substantially different from many of their artwork has existed for decades before Chaosium ever became a company. Hell, Lovecraft himself drew a quick sketch that showed the world that his artistic talents were almost entirely literary. :P

    (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

    8 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. 84 people marked this as a favorite.

    I'll start.

    A Bard doesn't need the Perform skill. The only performances that require it are Countersong and Distraction. Inspire Courage et al don't mention it at all, and you don't even need to use your primary artform when using it. It was intentionally left ambiguous so bards didn't have to keep on playing their instrument while using the performances. It's a free action to continue the performance.

    Paizo Employee (PostMonster General)

    Today we're introducing favorites for messageboard posts. They're basically an internal bookmarking system, so you can refer back to posts you want to be able to find later. Favorites are public—everybody can see what you've favorited, and can see who's favorited a post.

    To favorite a post, click the "+" beneath the reply link. You can remove your favorite at any time. We show a count of how many people have favorited a post next to the "+", and if you click that text, you can see who favorited the post.

    There is a new "favorites" tab on your user profile page, which shows all the posts you've favorited. There's also a tab to show you which of your posts have been favorited, including those you may have posted under aliases.

    A note about the terminology: We've specifically selected "favorites" rather than "+1" or "like". Anybody can favorite a post for any reason, not just agreement with the sentiment expressed or how it was said.



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