|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
Front loading is only important for PFS if you don't intend to cap your character. I intend to cap my characters.
Fair enough. It raises an interesting point where you might be looking for completely different build concepts depending on whether you go PFS or capping. Do you think your other build ideas change much if you are just interested in PFS play to level 11?
Admittedly, my suggestion is very front loaded. With the occasional use of Ki points, that would be 4 attacks per round without negative modifiers. How many hits were you looking to achieve anyway and by what level? I tend to play mostly PFS where front loading is important.
If anyone has suggestions besides the TWF + Natural attack build I'd be interested in it so I could add it to the guide.
Play a Tengu with the right racial selections and get 3 primary natural attacks from level 1. It's even PFS legal. Furthermore, there's no -2 modifier to hit unlike with TWF.
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Humbling, actually. It just felt like removing the "fighter-ness" of the warpriest and replacing it with "monk-ness" felt like a good idea and seemed almost natural. How much people love it just blows me away.
It's the most interesting archetype or class to come out of the whole book.
Nice guide, but just a couple of comments.
Is there any particular reason you haven't considered Horn of the Criosphinx feat for the Sacred Fist build?
Secondly, what do you think of the artifice blessing? I was thinking of making a sacred fist build that could destroy dungeons, houses and constructs alike with his bare hands. I would also give him Knowledge Engineering to supplement the blessing.
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
I have no answers to those questions as I'm starting from a blank canvass. All ideas welcome.
I checked out Ferocious Resolve and it looks ok without being amazing since you are still staggered and bleeding 1 hp per round.
Marmite, Vegemite AND Marmalade? Don't you think you're spreading yourself a little thin?
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
4th level build idea
Thanks to you and the others who took the time to put up a 4th level build for me. I am now convinced that there is more to the class than I first thought. I will be keen to try out a build.
I think the Sanctified Slayer in particular interests me. I would appreciate any advice for a build that includes this archetype. It will be for PFS play and I have access to Oread and Tiefling in addition to the standard available races.
K177Y C47 wrote:
So what you are saying is that it's a well designed class and a balanced class but not a strong class? That's what I'm trying to determine. Is it what some people would classify as a Tier 1 or Tier 2 class? Also, my interest is more around low to middle levels as I never play high levels (beyond about level 12 or 13).
Insain Dragoon wrote:
I have a question. Do you believe that the ACG that was released fell short, exceeded, or met your expectations?
I'm not sure that's a fair question to ask them. It's really about whether they are meeting our expectations. The fact that they are responding on the forums to our opinions around this shows that they care about our expectations which is in part what really matters.
I am 100% behind this sentiment. Occasionally, I might not be happy with some final interpretation but the fact that you make a final decision/clarification for an FAQ is a million times more important than providing feedback not to my taste. If I could have just one thing from Paizo, it would be more FAQs answered.
I also appreciate the time Paizo staff take to be active on the forums. It's another reason I'm a fanboy.
The 8th Dwarf wrote:
The problem with Vegemite is that those who don't understand it slather it on like peanut butter. Vegemite should be used sparingly on toast with melted butter.
Sorry, but peanut butter is bleugh. 8P It's only useful for making satay sauce.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I think you have proven your point about "the buttery knife" but we are moving away from what I consider the larger issue at hand in this thread. The quality control around the ACG by Paizo's standards was poor. What is more concerning to me is that I worry that Paizo staff will take an unreasonably long time to issue FAQ/Errata notices to deal with all the vague and/or contradictory rulings found in the book. This lack of response to some (NOT all) heavily FAQed threads really frustrates me.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I just wish there was more quality control and more importantly, better FAQ/Errata responses. I am also well aware that the ACG book is newly published and it will take time to respond to all the FAQs but if you look on the forums there are a lot of older FAQs that just seem to be ignored.
Now I need to put my statements in context. I am a Paizo fanboy and I love what they publish. I am happy I bought the hardcopy AND softcopy versions of the book because as usual it has many wonderful ideas for helping me create new characters regardless of all the rules issues.
D20Pro offers more than Roll20 and I use it in conjunction with Skype. However, D20Pro costs money (not much for what you get) while I think Roll20 is free.
D20Pro Unlimited looks very exciting if you want to check it out. It is the new version of D20Pro which I think will set it apart from every other VTT:
By the way, we still haven't come up with a name for this amazing build. How about Hidden Dragon Pummelling Sphinx?
Hi Mistwalker. Thanks for sharing that link. It seems to me that the Pathfinder Society Adventure Checklist found on that link serves a different purpose.
For a start, it's very well presented, compact and looks like it would print out easily. However, it seems to be designed specifically for just one character at a time and more importantly it has no means of distinguishing between having played or GM Credit.
The idea of mine is to be able to load ALL your characters into one spreadsheet so at a glance you can quickly see whether one of your characters has played a scenario or whether I've GMed it and assigned credit to a character. That means I can easily commit to signing up for a session online through a tool such as Warhorn without racking my brains trying to remember whether I've played it or GMed it before.
If you just want something to print out and check for a specific character, then the link you provided is definitely a better choice.
Horn of the Criosphinx is amazing for the Sacred Fist/MoMS build. What is the earliest level you can get this feat when juggling between the 2 classes - Sacred Fist/MoMS? If I could get Horn of the Criosphinx earlier by only getting 1 level of MoMS early on, it would be worth it.
I'm sick and tired of confusing myself when I am trying to work out whether I have played a scenario or not before I sign up in Warhorn for our fortnightly PFS game.
To get around this problem, I have created a spreadsheet that contains EVERY scenario from Season 0 to 6 including PFS Sanctioned Modules, discontinued scenarios and Specials in one easy to read spreadsheet. This tool allows me to see, at a glance, whether I've played or GMed a scenario and thus whether I should sign up for it.
I thought I would share my hard work and I'm hoping the PFS community can benefit from what I've developed. Keep in mind that it's meant to supplement only and not replace the official recording of your scenarios for each of your Pathfinder characters. Below is the link to the spreadsheet in Google Docs. Just download it and start filling in the available entries for having Played, GM Credit, or GM Star Replay:
You could really turn your Sacred Fist/MoMS 2 build into a tank. Take Evasion as well as Blessed Fortitude along with the Luck blessing and very few effects are going to hurt you with the Luck re-roll. It certainly doesn't hurt that 2 levels of MoMS add 3/3/3 to all your saves.
I will also be buying a wand of mage armor. My 18 wisdom bonus doubled for armour class along with the extra +4AC from the wand will give you a decent armour class at low levels. You just have to hope that someone in the party can use the wand on you.
In my opinion, the 2nd level of MoMS is worth it simply for picking up Evasion.
The Evasion vs Toughness issue for optimization hasn't been explored/debated enough. Sacred Fist gains Blessed Fortitude at 3rd level which in many circumstances appears to have the same effect (if I'm reading it properly) as Evasion. Is it worth it to have both? Could you use both against a Fireball for instance. Oh, I failed my reflex save for Evasion. Hang on, I'm going to make a fortitude save now to see if I can avoid damage anyway. Oh, failed that as well. Hold on a second, I'll now use my stored up Luck blessing to re-roll Blessed Fortitude.
My question is rules-wise, would you be able to use all these one after the other?
1. Hunter's animal companion gets to share a free teamwork with its master at 3rd level and every 3 levels after. While I'm not a huge fan of teamwork feats, there are a couple of really strong ones that could be cherry picked.
2. A hunter may teach her companion hunter’s tricks from the skirmisher ranger archetype (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide 128) instead of standard tricks. Some of these are incredibly powerful including automatic Shaken condition or Entangled condition on the enemy as a free action when your animal companion makes a successful attack.
3. Divine Hunter archetype allows the Animal Companion to gain the Celestial template at 3rd level. Celestial template will give you several energy resistances as well as smite and DR. That's amazingly good.
4. Primal Companion archetype allows your Animal Companion to gain an evolution pool which is amazing. That means early entry into pounce, increased natural armour or extra energy damage on your attacks just to name a few of the things you can pick up. Even better, Primal Companion can be combined with the Divine Hunter archetype.
When you combine all these things together, the Hunter's Animal Companion totally dominates the Druid's animal companion. Of course, the Druid itself might be better than the Hunter as it is a 3/4 BAB class with full spell casting. But when looking at the pets alone, nothing is as good as a Hunter AC.
I think you are spot on with your assessment of the blessings. I'm strongly tempted to go Luck as well as Good.
Artifice is tempting to me because of season 6 but I hesitate because the wording says "you can touch one melee weapon". That worries me as I don't know how that would work with your flurry of blows when you use different parts of your body as your unarmed strike. Would it mean that only one of your attacks counts for the artifice blessing each round? I just don't know.
I mostly like it and like it a lot.
What I don't like is the poor quality control exercised around rule mechanics when new books are rushed out too quickly. Then we are forced to raise FAQs and wait for clarifications and some (not all) of these FAQs take a very long, long time to get answered if at all.
I would pick Horn of the Criosphinx before Power Attack anyway. The trick with this whole build is deciding when to take the 2nd level of MoMS. Look closely at SF with all its interesting class abilities and spell slots by level before deciding when to take that 2nd level of MoMS.
I think Boar Style is nice. That's an extra 2d6 of bleed damage per round and your unarmed strikes now count as slashing.
Another good option is Snake Style. Pump up your Sense Motive and have a ridiculously high armour class against one attack each round.
Just FYI - the Hunter with the right Archetypes selected makes by far the most powerful pets in the game now. It leaves the other pets for dead. By 3rd level, the Hunter's Animal Companion (Big Cat of course) gets all this:
Bite, 2 x claws, 2 x rake; pounce; resist 5 to fire, cold, electricity and acid; smite; dark vision; climb ability; evasion; scent; free action entangle; free action shake; AC24 all at 3rd level.
By the way, I just wanted to thank you and prototype00 for coming up with this clever sacred fist x/moms 2 build idea in the first place. It's my favourite build idea to come out of the ACG.
The reason I'd want to do it this way is that I need to front load the character for PFS play. Firstly, by going 1 warpriest/1 MOMS means I am doubling my AC from level 2 with my high Wisdom.
By level 3 I have the whole point of the build working - the pummeling charge with the dragon style. You also gain Fervor, an extra Blessing and an extra spell slot.
You miss out on getting Power Attack early but given your BAB is so terrible the first few levels, I don't think it's such a problem.
On another note, I am trying to decide if Sacred Mountain or Sohei is a better choice. I am fortunate enough to have a Oread chronicle sheet so I can start out with an 18 STR and 18 WIS and +1 natural armor. Sacred Mountain loses evasion but gains Toughness - not sure what's better.
That leads me to another question - would you be able to use both Evasion and then Blessed Fortitude against an area effect attack for instance?
What am I missing? Surely you could grab Dragon Style as a normal level 3 feat. 1st level you grab Pummeling Style and at 2nd level bonus Monk feat is Pummeling Charge.
So Warpriest 2/Monk 1 would give you Dragon Style and the 2 Pummeling feats.
Even better, just drop 1 level of MoMS Monk.
Sorry, none of the books I own seemed to cover the rays.
What I would be excited to see is some sort of Mystic class based around the arousing of the Kundalini (serpent-fire) at a high level to become a "super humanoid". The steps on the way to this achievement would be through the alignment of the 7 chakras at different levels starting of course with the root chakra at a low level.
Erik Mona wrote:
I have quite a few books at home. I'll see if I can help you in finding the right books/chapters/passages.