bugleyman's page

Typical OWS violent rhetoric and mindset.

Huh!?

Question: Is an unconscious creature automatically considered willing? I'm the GM and ... not sure how to rule this one.

Wow, that could be taken the wrong way...

Shoot! I was supposed to stop reading this thread. Must go to bed now.

That's disingenuous -- you were asked to do no such thing.

If and when you do want to have a serious conversation about economics and social justice, you know where to find me. :)

I can't say I really understand how discussion of economics in a thread devoted to a movement centered around concerns in economics is unwelcome, I bow out nonetheless.

Andrew:

Pardon my caution. If you earnestly want to have this conversation, please start a thread and I will happily participate in detail later tonight. And while I've seen this particular ideological debate burn down many a thread, I do not wish to simply dismiss your views. I don't think we'll change anyone's mind, but perhaps I'll learn something new. :)

Ah, I see your point.

Broken down to either issue, imo it's just not right what a win/win situation this is for her (if true) thanks to California. He will treated like an adult in both cases.

Gotcha. While I personally don't have a problem with a 19-year-old sleeping with a 16-year old (thought that's about the edge of what I'm comfortable with), I understand that others may.

Not to pull the thread too far off topic, I've always found child support to be a little weird. If a rich man fathers a child, he should be responsible for providing a basic level of support, not enough money to support a lavish lifestyle to which the child is supposedly entitled. But again, that's pure opinion. :)

I'm not forcing you to reply to my opinions.

No, but you're forcing people who want to discuss OWS to read around them.

And we don't argue that much, do we?

Not specifically -- I just don't see the point of rehashing the same old positions yet again. Far better to simply concede that not everyone on this thread agrees, and that it is possible to disagree without being stupid and/or ignorant. At the very least, economic screeds need their own thread.

Also, I don't think it derails the thread, since it's about the precepts behind the OWS movement.

I don't believe that is the case. Where you see people asking for a hand out, I see people asking simply for a game that isn't rigged. But surely going off about, say, adoption is off topic?

I'll simply never agree to redistribution of wealth in a free market capitalist society--they own the percentage of wealth they earned through their labors, intelligence, business decisions, and combinations thereof. The very small percentage living a nonproducing parasitic life off of 'family money' certainly don't make up enough of the population to matter.

The majority of very wealthy in the US didn't print their own money; they either offered a good or service for which other people were willing to pay, or they actively invested in the entrepreneurship of someone else who offered a good or service the rest of us found useful or necessary.

Also, I don't understand the second question, about OWS.

And I'll simply never agree with your apparent belief in this country as a meritocracy. Since we'll never agree, can we skip the argument (and accompanying thread derailment)?

There's no conflation.

He's underaged, she's not.

Then what is the relevance of the paternity suit?

That's kinda messed up that she can sleep with an underage kid with no consequences and then slap him with a paternity suit.

That's kinda messed up that she can sleep with an underage kid with no consequences and then slap him with a paternity suit.

It is more than kinda messed up that some woman I haven't seen in fifteen years can show up and demand (then get) years of back child support. I think that you're conflating the issues -- the fairness of paternity laws is beside the point.

The federal tax rate in the US is progressive: the wealthier you are in terms on income (not capital gains), the more you pay in taxes. Tax shelters and incentives breaks apply mainly to investments, not base income from your job. 70% of all taxes to the federal government comes from the top half of incomes in the US.

And they own what % of the wealth? And when did OWS say anything about the top half?

Let's not go down this road AGAIN, please.

Constitutional right, period.

Does that mean that people should have nuke silos under their houses? Of course not. Obviously there is a line, and people are going to disagree exactly where that line is. But preventing people from, say, owning handguns or hunting rifles is obviously counter to the Constitution, imho. Likewise, no guns in court seems like a no-brainier to me.

Under CA law, it was NOT statutory rape. She was 19, he was 16. That falls within the acceptable range.

19 & 16? Yeah, I have a hard time seeing Justin as a victim here. YMMV.

And yes, it's a bad day here. Somebody hug me, please.

*hug*

*grope*

Too much? :P

While I can't deny there are certainly going to be some racist people in the tea party, how would you then explain Herman Cain becoming the tea party's darling? Conservatives are lining up behind him in droves. If the racist elements in the tea party were that significant, surely someone else would've ended up in the position Cain is currently in, regardless of the recent troubles his campaign seems to be having.

I'll "explain" Cain when he wins the nomination -- which he won't.

How old is the woman? If she's within a few years of the B man, then I don't think it's that big a deal. On the other hand, if she's much older, then yeah, she is sleazy.

OWS has folks on tape shouting racial epithets against Jews.

I've seen that tape. You're not mentioning the part where that man's views are repudiated by other protestors.

Yes, protests draw out the crazies on both sides -- but what I've seen of the Tea Party strongly suggests tacit acceptance. You don't agree, and that's fine. I encourage everyone to look around and draw their own conclusion. :)

When the gain the endoresement of the KKK? :P

Yeah, I really don't attach the importance to that endorsement that you seem to.

Edit: And actually it appears that David Duke, not the KKK, endorsed OWS. He also reportedly endorsed John McCain (that dirty racist).

Or who carries what sign, I reckon.

In the case of the tea party, the sentiment is there, whether it is flows from a central organizing body or not. And it's not one or two outliers, either.

How many ugly signs before it's a problem? How many racists is too many? How often can the rest of the group look the other way, or hide behind a lack of central authority before rational people start take notice?

Somewhere between "Free markets deserve to be free of oversight!" rhetoric and the "Goverment should own everythign and divy it all up!" rhetoric, is a good solution waiting to be found. So far, neither the tea PArty nor the OWS people have found it, or even come close.

Agreed.

When the KKK endorses you, are signs necessary?

I don't think non-centralized groups in particular can control who endorses them.

Sorry, I'm still stuck on imagining unimaginable wealth. ;)

Gorbacz wrote:

Before somebody goes "Gorbacz, but why can't you just ignore stuff you don't like and let others have fun?" I'll shoot my pre-emptive response "I don't care about your fun". Yeah, I am that a jerk.

Your posts always make me smile a little, but this one is aggressive even from you. Bad day?

At least he's honest. :)

It looks to me that some people might be doing some bad things under the pretense of being "just" another OWS protester. No doubt the opportunists have taken advantage of the Tea Party in a similar manner. In either case, if there is sufficient evidence, those responsible should be arrested.

Likewise, people lighting cars on fire and putting bricks through windows should be held accountable, irrespective of the group with which they identify.

However, I have yet to see a bunch of racist/xenophobic signs showing up at OWS demonstrations -- so in that respect, at least, OWS seems rather different than the Tea Party.

Some of us don't want our games dumbed down/limited/truncated just because somebody out there can't read 10 pages of text without getting a headache. Or is mathematically challenged. Or you know, both.

I am capable of reading tens (hundreds, even) of pages of text without getting a headache. I am also not "mathematically challenged" (though I'm certainly no math whiz -- never had to go past Calc I).

Yet I value clarity, sensible organization, and yes, streamlining. Thse things are not the equivalent of "dumbing down" -- in fact, they're the opposite, brevity being the soul of wit and all that.

Size and density are not worthwhile goals in themselves.

Yeah, that bit about elitist fans of dense, obtuse rules was about me.

You're giving my memory far more credit than it deserves. I don't remember who wrote the posts I was thinking of -- or even if it was a single person. I think it's a silly position irrespective of who holds it. ;)

I totally expected this.

That people don't trust FOX news? Honestly, why wouldn't you have expected it? Do you trust MSNBC?

I don't understand. Is the smoking gun that many ACORN people are involved in OWS? Seems pretty unsurprising given the similar outlooks. Of course, I also thought the whole "look, some clerk at ACORN is a criminal, we should shut ACORN down" bit was pretty dodgy. Using that criteria, Wal*Mart would be out of business tomorrow.

Or is the point that neither the Tea Party or OWS are as "grassroots" as they claim?

I <3 Savage Worlds. :)

Clear rules benefit everyone. "Real men play with obtuse rules" needs to taken behind the chemical shed...

I just post what I want. I don't expect Paizo to listen, necessarily, although I have been surprised at the number of times they end up doing something like what I asked for...

Anyway, even the grognards aren't really claiming that it's good, just that they're accustomed to it. I think familiarity might be concealing the flaws for a great number of people, and perhaps they don't realize just how important fresh blood is to a game in-print. Of course, being grognards, maybe they don't care. :) Being out-of-print seems to earn a lot of grognard cred.

I've seen posters on these boards take the position that dense, obtuse rules are a good thing, because they weed out the "fake" gamers. Sad, but true.

Now, now. Don't be a jerk.

Funny, I thought the "look how long I've been around" post was officially jerky.

Wanders into the thread.

Looks at last post.

Leaves.

I knew there was a reason that guy was president...

Ultimately, you have to admit that 4e and Pathfinder aren't the same game.

Naturally. But what does that have to do with anything else in this thread? :P

I mean, surely, as a 25 year gaming veteran and former 3.5 player, if I'm confused and frustrated by the organization, then people coming in from the BB are bound to be confused. Especially since the BB is so alarmingly well-organized. :)

It's all in your head! Grognard Up! ;)

The changes between chocolate chip ice cream and mint chocolate chip ice cream are objectively greater than the changes between chocolate chip ice cream and cookies and cream ice cream.

Discuss.

P.S. My personal ice cream preference has nothing to do with this.

I like to think of my opinions as facts IMHO.

LOL!

Reminds me of something I read once:

The three Great Premises of Idiot America:

· Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings, or otherwise moves units
· Anything can be true if someone says it loudly enough
· Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it

I think I may need to call for a crusade to take back the word "edition".

Tried that upthread -- no dice. I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause.

This thread is a perfect example why elementary schools hand out those fact vs. opinion worksheets.

Sadly, some of us were quite obviously absent that day.

The change from 2E to 3E brought us such brilliant stuff as lengthy arguments as to the definitions of "dropping" an item; hundreds of hundreds of pages of people breaking out high-level statistics to prove that build A deals 0.001 point more damage per round than build B, proving that build B is something only a moron would choose; and other such nonsense. 3E should be refereed to as the the Excel edition.

*sip*

Have you tried the mocha paint thinner?

Most of what you listed is either aniche rule (multiclassing) or minor chanes. (Castintime). This isnot subjective, for example, most characters are not multicsse, so multiclassing is a niche rule.

Most characters are not wizards, so wizards are niche. And so are elves. And dragons...after all, fewer than half of all monsters are dragons, so they must be niche too, right?

Anybody who says the changes were as significant between 2e and 3e as between 3e and 4e is drinking paint thinner

So anyone who disagrees with your opinion is "drinking paint thinner?" Does the subjective become objective whenever you really, really, really want it to?

Let me try: Anyone who says that mint chocolate chip isn't the very best flavor of ice cream in the whole wide world is drinking paint thinner.TM

Hey, I like it! I'm sure this will end well.

Get a job and earn your own, you socialist hippie!

Well played. ;-)

Let's spend our time doing something more productive than correcting flippant statements, shall we?

Hey, I lost my double standard.

Seeing as how you have extra...

Would you dislike it if rogues used invisibility field generators rather than stealth? Or if they used rocket boots to ascend walls instead of climbing?

So-called "flavor" matters, because story and setting matter. Believing a gunslinger to be misplaced in Pathfinder doesn't mean someone is "determinedly narrow-minded." It just means they have different preferences than you.

Margaret Weis said Monte told her he was working on it. It must be true.

Must? No. Credible? Yes.

Let's spend our time doing something more productive than building strawmen, shall we?

I'd prefer to just get rid of all perks for being married.

When are single, infantile man-children going to get tax breaks?!?

Which Tax breaks?

Yeah, he's been living large at the taxpayer's expense for the past few months.

I don't know about Texas, but around these parts "living large" involves green bologna and pink underwear. :P

Despite my apparent inability to distinguish between "dessert" and "desert" (particularly bad, as I live in AZ!), I am serious -- If enough of us chip in we can do this!

Besides, what's $50 in the grand scheme of things? You can spend that on an XBox game your kids play for a week before it sits around collecting dust.

Ladies and gentlemen:

So as many of you may have noticed, HoustonDerek has returned after an absence of many moons. I have hereby decided that it is imperative to get him to a location where he can be beaten for his long history of trolling the boards. So here is what I propose: We board-dwellers collect enough to send Derek to Paizocon 2012!

I figure we need enough to cover airfare from Houston ($~400), three nights in the hotel (~$400*), and tickets spending money ($200)...so roughly $1000.00?

I'll put up $50. If nineteen others can commit to doing the same in this thread, then maybe Derek can finally get his just deserts. :)

* This is about what it cost this year at the Coast...a venue change may increase the price.

Edit: If anyone has experience and can take care of setting up a "donation" style website, that would be utterly awesome, and a totally acceptable alternative to the $50. :)

I could get travel permission. I would have to forgo a shot drinking contest with Buhlman though, the judge put drinking on my list of no-nos this time around.

;-)

Have you met Jason? I don't think your chances were that good anyway. :)

Sadly, even though I'm in IT I really don't know the best way to set something like this up. Any interested parties experience doing this sort of thing? Methinks it is time to create a thread...

I would be up for that come tax time.

How about it, HD? Is an out-of-state trip next summer a possibility?

bugleyman wrote:

houstonderek wrote:

Oh, and BG, thanks for the e-mails and letter and stuff :-)

It was my pleasure. I hope you got to take the daughter out last night for some trick-or-treating. :)

Oh, and I too want to thank you bugleyman for supporting HD during his hard times.

You're welcome. I would have liked to do more, but driving to Texas wasn't in the cards.

What say we start a "get Derek to PaizoCon 2012" fund? $50 a head should go pretty far (assuming he can make the trip).