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Sin Spawn

bugleyman's page

RPG Superstar 2013 Star Voter, 2014 Star Voter. FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 6,605 posts (6,706 including aliases). 70 reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 7 Pathfinder Society characters. 16 aliases.

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Squirrel_Dude wrote:

My opinion on a "revised" rulebook: I thought that's what Pathfinder (and 3.5 for that matter) was supposed to be. Revisions on a ruleset that was considered flawed or in need of fine tuning and cleaning up.

I don't know, but maybe after two revisions, and two different companies attempting to make things work, it's fair to ask if 3.0 has core flaws that will have to change for it to be what you want. Core flaws that, when changed, will stop the game from continuing to be compatible with older editions.

Irrespective of whether such flaws exist, the Core Rulebook has presentation and organization issues that could be addressed without actually changing any rules.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Matthew Koelbl wrote:
Except we are explicitly talking about Wizards who do spend time training with weapons. That's the point of them being proficient! Whether they spent a feat on it, or have a racial benefit, the idea is that this isn't some random scholar who just picked up a sword, but someone who actually has spent time and effort learning to wield a blade. Why shouldn't they be perfectly capable of swinging the sword with skill, if they have the stats and proficiency to do so?

Because that's not how D20 games work? Seriously, it really isn't. The game is designed so that the majority of one's ability is defined by class; ergo, if you want to be good at fighting, pick a class that's good at fighting.

I'm not saying that's good or just is. Fighting the design of system seems like an unnecessary headache.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Since you asked: Pure, unadulterated bloat. There isn't a single archetype within that I couldn't already realize without the book. Worse, much of it is demonstrably more powerful than what came before. The Arcanist in particular seems obscene.

However, as a PFS GM, I am expected to have access to this resource. The fact that the PDF price is so reasonable makes that a lot easier to swallow.

Just so I don't sound like a total downer: I really liked the art in this book. The anti-paladin is priceless. :)

1 person marked this as a favorite.
MMCJawa wrote:

for a lot of people, those names are more awkward to use and kind of harder to convey what it is the monster they are facing is. At any rate, I assume that everything in the game books is in the english translation of whatever language the PC's and NPC's actually use. So just because I use the term Tyrannosaur, doesn't mean myself as a player is literally saying the same thing in common.

I mean...PC's face minotaurs, and minotaur is a greek derived name that basically Refers to the Bull of Minos. I don't see how a group of characters facing a Tyrannosaur is any more odd than characters facing a Minotaur, or any other monster pulled from real life mythology.

I hereby sick my RageHate ClawBeast of Rage on you. ;-)

1 person marked this as a favorite.
MMCJawa wrote:
Well the dinosaur names are back (i.e. Allosaurus, not Sharp-tooth meativore or whatever). So that is a good sign.

I do think WotC went a little overboard at times, but I never really understood the disdain that gets heaped on the use of "in-world" names, at least not for dinosaurs. After all, it seems unlikely anyone would refer to them by genus in a world largely devoid of the scientific method.

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:

** spoiler omitted **



Or perhaps the answer will become clear upon reflection. ;-)

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I really need to see the concentration system in play before I can form a comprehensive opinion about where casters sit on the power curve, but one thing seems clear from reading it: Casters are going to feel quite different.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
JoeJ wrote:

The organization doesn't bother me half as much as the fact that 2/3 of what I'm trying to look up isn't in the index.

Ok, I'm adding "better index" to our list of 2nd edition demands! ;-)

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
It's already its own thing, since APG. And there's nothing wrong with keeping a game for 3.5 players alive, forever.

The organization of the core rule book sucks. Sorry, but it does. It comes from essentially taking the 3.5 PHB and gluing the 3.5 DMG to the end of it.

In my opinion, Pathfinder needs to be completely re-written in the vein of the Beginner Box. Not with an eye toward simplicity, but with an eye toward clarity, consistency, and usability.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Vhayjen wrote:
A reaction to another company's release(s) is not good business for said reactionary company. Paizo is doing fine the way they are. To be successful, Paizo should keep doing what they're doing and not be concerned with any other company.

On the other hand, being caught flat-footed because you ignored the competition isn't fantastic, either.

1 person marked this as a favorite.


Though if I were going to cut things down that far, I'd probably go all the way down to:


...and call it good. :)

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Soluzar wrote:
This book convinces me more and more that we need a revised and updated Core Rulebook to update some of the classes and clean up the rules a bit.

Preach on, brother!

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wizards and Sorcerers no longer share a spell list -- the wizard list is larger. I'm assuming you know how prepared casters work from basic. Sorcerers still know a very limited number of spells, but can always cast any of them as long as they have the slots...basically, they're all always "prepared." This bit is pretty much unchanged from 3E.

Meta-magic is now solely the purview of the sorcerer. Rather than taking higher level spell slots, meta-magic is powered by a new resource: Sorcery Points. You basically get one sorcery point per sorcerer level (starting at 2nd), and use these to power meta-magic (among other creating extra spell slots on the fly). Sorcerers are all about flexibility when it comes to magic...they can mess with spells in ways wizards cannot.

On one hand, I like that the wizard and sorcerer are more distinct. On the other hand, I still don't personally feel the need for two (or three if you count warlocks) full arcane casters. In fact, if they were going to bring over a class from the 4E PHB, I would have preferred Warlord to Warlock. Warlord healing would have fit in perfectly with 5E's hit point and healing paradigm.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Adjule wrote:

That was a large swath of posts removed.

So, Bugleyman. Got any previews of the PHB for us? I don't have the moneys to get one myself, or I would possibly be reading my own copy and adding some previews myself.

I haven't had time to more than skim it, and there's quite a bit of material on, but if you have specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

Many spells seemed to have been combined. For example, prismatic wall and sphere are now the same spell, you just choose the shape. It looks to be a strict super-set of basic -- nothing is more complicated, there are just many more options. Some chapters -- equipment -- appear to be identical, just with art.

Speaking of the art, it's pretty fantastic. It reminds me of the original 2E books w/ the full color plates; many non-battle scenes, just showing fantasy characters doing cool stuff. Also plenty of ethnic and gender diversity. I recognize some WAR and William O'Connor...overall a very diverse mix.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

At the risk of violating the code of conduct: Jack Chick can get bent.*

* I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course. :)

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Danbala wrote:
They may not put out all that much once the initial books are out.

I'm sure this will strike some people as crazy, but that would be fantastic. Contract out ongoing adventure production to people who specialize in adventures, keep the rules releases to an absolute minimum.

I can hope. ;-)

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Galnörag wrote:

I do kind of wish Wizards had done a CRB instead of a PHB / DMG combo. I was adverse to the CRB concept coming over to Pathfinder, but to be honest I prefer having the one book.

Argh, no thanks. I really dislike the single book approach. To each their own, though.

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EntrerisShadow wrote:
Of course, every new generation is lazy, selfish, and entitled according to the generation that preceded it. Society is always going to hell in a handbasket.


thejeff wrote:

I'd love to be, but sadly the entitlements just aren't enough to keep me comfortable, so I have to go to work every week.

I...get to work a not highly stressful computer job that I enjoy and that pays well enough.

And this.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Hama wrote:
You know like you can't really point out anything specific about something that you don't like, but you end up really disliking the whole? That kind of feeling.

At the end of the day, preferences are feelings, and they don't have to be logical (not to imply that yours aren't). We like what we like. All too often I tend to forget that (my wife is convinced I'm half Vulcan).

For myself, I was drawn to Paizo during the Dungeon era because they were by far the best source of material for my ongoing campaign. The fact that the mechanics they used were all core was the ideal situation for me -- very little additional crunch (which I tend to dislike), but tons of first-class creativity. This situation persisted through the 3.5 adventure paths. Alas, nothing lasts forever. And in fairness to Paizo, I don't think that was a sustainable business model once 3.5 went out of print.

When 4E was released I embraced it wholeheartedly, only to watch WotC make a series of bad decisions that I believe ultimately doomed what I found to be a very promising set of rules.

As 5E approaches, I find I (again) like the rules, but revelations about organized play (you can't play the adventures at home, for example) have made it unlikely that I will be leaving PFS. PFS is by far and away the best-run OP campaign with which I've ever been involved (PFS>LG>LFR imho). So while I'm of mixed feelings about the Pathfinder RPG rules (I prefer something more rules-light, especially as I get older), I have other reasons to stick around.

My sincere hope (which is often enough to invite curses here :P) is a cleaned-up, simplified 2nd edition of Pathfinder in the next few years. I simply don't care about spending $50 or $100 for new rule books, because the time and effort saved are more than worth the expense (assuming improvement, of course). Something with the clarity, simplicity, and organization of the Beginner Box would be fantastic.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I blame Hasbro for the movie Battleship.

11 people marked this as a favorite.
Scott Betts wrote:
So a business shouldn't have the ability to determine who gets to distribute their product? That's wrong, to you?

That's extremely disingenuous of you. There's a big difference between "decide who distributes their products" and "make unavailable something that has already been paid for."

Furthermore, this is precisely the sort of argumentation for which you're constantly taking others to task.

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Overall, I think WotC made some legitimately bad choices during the 4E era. Personally, I liked the rules, but they made it increasingly difficult to support them as a company through what I believe were increasingly customer-hostile actions.

As for 5E -- Once again I like the rules, but I harbor some doubts about WotC. I do think it is worth noting that many of the people behind D&D have changed, and so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt by assuming they have learned their lesson. However, the silence on PDFs and the OGL do not bode well.

I'm buying the 5E core. Beyond that? Wait and see.

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Edition changes happen. I find getting upset about them silly.

Cutting off people's access to their PDFs, on the other hand, was unacceptable. And abandoning the OGL? That was a self-inflicted gunshot wound...which they seem on the verge of repeating. *boggle*

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Yes. Give me my 400 USD of PDFs back.

Yeah, but...

Ok, I've got nothing on this one.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Auxmaulous wrote:

I probably won't be picking up the PHB, since I don't like the current default power level of some of the offerings of the basic pdf to increase - and from the ToC it looks to be more of the same, just greater in power/detail.

I will probably pick up the DMG and MM and see how I can use those to mod or enhance the existing basic game framework. From the looks of it (and I could be wrong) the PHB is going to just be an increase in player power (feats) and options for power - something I do not want for my game. If they present more player class options on par with the basic doc then I might pick it up, but if the basic doc adds in these classes as a "basic" version when it gets updates as they have stated - than no, I see no need for the PHB in my game besides something for my players to hold in their hands.

The content of the PHB based on previews of some feats makes me cringe actually and from the looks of it, it seems like this book is being presented as a power baseline and will not have the adjustable dials (could be wrong about that).

People here may not get all of that - I just want to have and run a game that focuses less on character options, running the maze of options to maximize every choice and complex mechanical character options for the players to gain mastery over. Do not want that. I just want a game that focuses on gaming and less on PC details and progressing planning/system & CharOp master.

It like this was made for you.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

And now for something completely different: I wish WotC would update the Basic PDF to have the page numbers in the correct corners... :)

3 people marked this as a favorite.
JoeJ wrote:
When I first paged through 4e at the book store it looked to me like a video game rather than an RPG.

Completely agree. Except for the lack of a controller, display, and graphics of any kind, it was just like a video game!

Pardon the sarcasm, but this little bit of edition warring needs to be taken out behind the chemical shed.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
GypsyMischief wrote:
And then I got trounced, because the forums are a happy place.

Sadly, that's all too common. We tend to turn on each other quite readily. :-/

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Someone said "pray for Gaza," so they' antisemitic? Reminds me of the Seinfeld where everyone was calling Jerry an "anti-dentite" because he disliked the dentist.

Sometimes I seriously consider moving into a cave in the mountains. :-/

1 person marked this as a favorite.

So I ran my first session of 5E over the weekend. We began the Starter Set adventure using the basic rules.

The game moved along well. We spend a total of five hours, which included character generation and dinner. During the ~3.5 hours we actually spent playing, we got through five combats and wrapped up the first section of the adventure. It reminded me of "reset" 3rd edition with many of the corner-case rules removed. I particularly liked the "hybrid" prepared/spontaneous spell-casting model shared by the cleric and the wizard. Someone at the table described it as a "D&D greatest hits," which I think was very appropriate.

We tried going map-less for a combat, but it just didn't feel quite right. Then we tried a grid with minis, and while that was close, it felt a bit "fiddly" for the rules-moderate nature of the game. We decided next time we're going to use minis and maps, but without a grid, and just measure distance with string. That should offer a visually appealing tactical representation without the restrictive feel of a grid. Since the rules don't assume a grid, it seems like the best balance. It also seems appropriate given D&D's war-game roots.

One thing I noticed was the need to read and re-read the basic rules. With several iterations of D&D and Pathfinder rattling around in my head, it was really tough to keep everything straight.

Naturally the lack of customization in the Basic Rules was very confining, but the experience left me really wanting to see the Player's Handbook. I still fear WotC is going to make bone-headed mistake at the last minute, but I'm excited in spite of myself: 5E might end up being close to my "ideal" D&D. If so, it will become my "go-to" game for fantasy role-playing, but it seems highly likely that I'll be sticking with Pathfinder for organized play unless most of my friends switch (thanks, network effects!).

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Brian Torrens wrote:
I have access to some high-tech printing equipment and running on thick cardstock isn't usually an issue.

*Activates +4 laser-stare of envy*

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Supreme Court 2014: The only freedom that matters is mine. :P

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Robert Brookes wrote:
Your level of Emerald Spire is one of my favorites!

Would you say you found it...inspiring?

Yuck yuck...

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I've been offered copies of Paizo PDFs with the watermarks removed on multiple occasions. I didn't accept. Not because I'm incorruptible or righteous, but because Paizo PDFs are legally available for a fair price, and I want to support the people that make them so they'll keep making them. On the other hand, refusing to offer legal PDFs hurts only customers, as those willing to pirate are not stymied. I had simply hoped that the powers that be at WotC would have figured this out by now. Heck, I had hoped that they'd have figured it out years ago.

In any event, even if all discussion of piracy related matters is forbidden, care should be taken before accusing people of advocating piracy (which no no one in this thread has done).

In short, I don't take well to being accused of things I haven't done. :-/

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Charlie D. wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
Which to me is...somewhat troubling. It should be a no-brainer at this point. Though I'm generally pleased with 5E so far, the silence on PDFs and the OGL is disappointing.
Silence is better for Wizards then promises they don't deliver. I think Wizards is wise to say nothing until they can back up what they say. It makes waiting harder but is helping show that currently Wizards delivers what it says it will deliver.

Yes, point is that the decision on PDFs should have already been a firm "of course."

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Steve Geddes wrote:
Wow. Poor form.

Indeed. Especially since I'm pretty sure *wisdom* is my dump stat (as I keep participating in these threads). >:(

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Chuck Wright wrote:
I was having an interesting discussion. You don't have to click on the link, my friend.

I didn't click on the link. What I did do was get a hostile PM from someone in this thread ("intelligence is obviously your dump stat").


So while I'm glad you find it interesting, I'm tired of the edition war bickering. I'll leave you guys to it.

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Odraude wrote:
I can think of many people I know that would firebomb Paizo HQ if 2Ed were announced ;)

Sadly I'm not sure you're mistaken.

Sometimes treating a game like SERIOUS BUSINESS wears more than a little thin. :/

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I hereby certify this thread as 100% Ed approved!

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
At least I'm consistent and not changing my views 180 degrees every other season. :)

Yes, because clearly disliking something a company does without deciding they're irredeemably evil for all time makes one a hypocrite.

P.S. Look! Over there!

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Scott Henry wrote:
I don't think Pathfinder 2E is going to be churned out as quickly as Hasbro is putting out new editions of D&D. lets hope 5th ed does a decent job.

And in my opinion, a new edition of Pathfinder can't come soon enough. Then again, I'm much less bothered by "edition-churn" than I am bloat. YMMV.

You seem to be taking a lot of this might help you to take a step back. RPGs aren't religions.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Scott Henry wrote:

What about races? I sitll want to play a Tiefling for example. I heard they are getting subraces now? So that's sort of stolen from Pathfinder.

This free basic edition didn't have a few things in it though like feats did it? I didnt see any. Some guy was trying to argue you didnt have to spend more money to get into 5th. Not true at all. The basic edition is just that, basic. It wont have everything the PHB has. In other words its incomplete. I also dont see a DMG or a MM for free either. So saying 5th ed core rules are free is incorrect.

Personally, I'd think long and hard before I started hurling accusations of D&D "stealing from Pathfinder."

As for the rest -- the basic rules are free. You will be able to use just those to play any of the published adventures. If you want to build your own stuff, you will probably want to pick-up a Monster Manual. Personally, I'm not seeing the angst here.

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
To me, it's D&D NextNextPlus, in order to differentiate it from the inevitable D&D NextPlusPlus which will come out in 2019.

Yes, Gorby, we get it. You hate all things WotC. Thanks for that. :/

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Scott Betts wrote:

3.5 player circa 2008: "Pathfinder is the D&D I love but now with sensible changes for smoother play? Take my money!"

Pathfinder player circa 2014: "5th edition is the D&D I love but now with sensible changes for smoother play? Doesn't sound revolutionary enough to satisfy me!"

Go figure.

In fairness, Scott, you could be talking about an entirely different group of people.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I do wonder why you are so sure of that, and why it cannot be both.

Exactly. They'd be crazy to not use what they learn in a future edition.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Well, that won't stop people, in particular the ones with a long-standing axe to grind with Paizo, to run around the Internet screaming "paid beta of PF 2.0 out next year - WotC did that to you with Bo9s and now Paizo is doing it again".

Uhm, I'd be delighted if it were that. Either way, I'll definitely be picking it up.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Abyssian wrote:
...MMO on paper that they tried to sell to us as "4E."


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It's not just you. Lots of people have problems with Pathfinder. Some of us put up with those problems and play anyway, others don't and find some other game that doesn't irritate them. Whichever you choose, I hope you have fun doing so.

This. Exactly this.

10 people marked this as a favorite.
Furry Grognard wrote:
It currently appears to me like the kind of fantasy RPG one would cut their teeth on before advancing to the full suite of options and complexity many enjoy with Pathfinder.

Alternatively, it might be the kind of fantasy RPG one plays after advancing past the needless complexity of systems like Pathfinder.

Or maybe it isn't a question of being "advanced" at all, and just one of preference? ;)

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