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Goblin Squad Member. FullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 404 posts (631 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 17 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

Hello?

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Oh, I almost forgot, you can go down the Archon Chain:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/archon-justice-combat/

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Stand still feat, reach, shield other spell, combat reflexes feat, bodyguard feat with trait or aid boosting ability, and then not giving the enemies good choices. Have casters summon minions to block access, or walls, or terrain spells, or do it yourself, etc. Standing in front works great on a lot of mindless monsters, animals, undead, etc. Then just kill things too fast to get to squishies.

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Ok so your original post was how can it be improved within stat / race / class constraints, and there my answer is just drop everything level 5+ and pick other fun stuff. Get the slayer talent for social skills. Take pirhana strike and use your talents for things. Take two weapon fighting. Etc.

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Well, I'm assuming you get both eventually.
Otherwise, almost certainly evolved companion with claws or something.

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It gets worse from there.
How are you going to great cleave and get sneak attack? What is combat reflexes doing for you? Why bleed people for 3 points of damage at 9th level, when an average monster has 115 hp? etc. (bleed damage doesn't usually stack, so bleeding critical and bleeding sneak attack don't work well together...)

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TiwazBlackhand wrote:

Str 6 small character, Medium load 16-30 lbs.

Breastplate (small) - 15 lb
Kukri (small) - 1 lb
Buckler (small) - 2.5 lb
Total - 18.5 lb

Medium load penalties are lesser than BP alone, therefore do not apply.

Other gear - Nah.

:P

First two levels are weak, level 3 (when we add Slashing Grace) come up to par with a 16 strength fighter using a great sword (thanks to 1d8 sneak attack), by level 10 (thanks to Studied Target and d8 sneak attack) we're ahead of the fighter (even counting Weapon Specialization) by about 6 damage per attack.
The biggest drawback is, that by taking a level of rogue, we fall behind 1 bab and therefore get our iterative attacks one level later.
So, if my 6 Str kukri slayer gnome is getting the same number of attacks, it's ahead in damage, if we're at lvl 6/11/16, I MAY be behind.

But...you don't have d8 sneak attack at level 3, or are you saying you take 2 slayer 1 knife rogue?

Because that's, like, +7 to hit and d3+d8+3 to damage, *if* you get sneak attack.
A rando fighter with a greatsword and 18 str is already at
+8 and 2d6+9...that's 16 damage vs 10...*if* you get sneak attack...And the fighter gets, you know, other fighter things...
edit: I see you assumed 16 str, ok, that's still +7 and 2d6+7 for 14 vs 10...

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TiwazBlackhand wrote:

I mean, if I wanted to make a super optimal character, I'd make a Half-Orc Two-Handed weapon fighter with an 18 boosted to 20 in strength and dump int/cha.

The goal here was never "Build the Best Character"
The goal was "Here's a S!+*ty Concept, make it the best possible."

Which, incidentally, my math indicates that the best option is 1 level of Knife Master Rogue followed by going Kukri melee slayer.

Ok but like, in that case I think you have the best possible crossbow using gnome slayer.

Are we talking about the melee build or the crossbow build with the other commentary?

So for the crossbow build, that first shot is nice at 9th level,
1d8+3d6+9+6+2+1 so that's like 32, which is pretty good. Your regular attacks for the rest of the fight though, or if ambushed, is at
1d8+7. You deal 23 damage if both primary attacks hit.
A level 1 barbarian does 21. A level 2 slayer with a mighty bow does like
1d8+6 on each attack...see what I mean? 9th level is the level your damage exceeds a level 1 - 2 character, outside the first shot.

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Well, so the great thing about flowing monk is that it doesn't really replace anything that you couldn't replace in the unchained monk. In fact, third parties have converted all the archetypes, so if this is a home game where you know the DM, I can't see much of a problem.

One alternative is to replace flurry of blows as well, but that's a bit harder to shoe into the unchained monk, especially if you consider the character forced to fight sometimes with the longsword.

I don't know how to replicate the style outside of flowing monk, it seems tailor made. I find them great. It would be very effective IMHO.
It does favor dex a lot though, which makes longswords difficult without either the swashbuckler abilities or agile property. One option is to hold it but rarely use it until you can get that enchantment/feat - take agile manuevers and make all your flurries trips, disarms, and the like.

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You can and do keep playing after 12, through the retirement adventures.
I can tell you that.
Thanks for the update on scaled fist, didn't know that.
It's a standard action high DC frighten:
Glorious Aura (Su)

Starting at 2nd level, a mystery cultist can shroud herself in a glorious aura for 1 round per mystery cultist level. These rounds need not be consecutive.

Her features radiate with divine beauty, but the force of her presence can be frightening to others. The mystery cultist gains a +4 sacred bonus to her Charisma score and radiates a 10-foot aura of terrible awe. Creatures within the aura must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + the mystery cultist’s class level + the mystery cultist’s Charisma modifier) or become frightened for 1d4 rounds. Regardless of whether the save is successful, a creature cannot be affected by a mystery cultist’s glorious aura more than once in 24 hours.

Think of it like a spell like you can use twice per day when in a bind - DC 12+cha (only two less than a max level spell, except you just boosted your charisma so it's full DC at 8 and after even higher) that frightens, then for anyone who makes the save you get the buffs.

Or could advance your cleric spellcasting if you wanted.

Note that with this build, it adds to:
saves
AC once or twice or 3 time or 4 (oracle to trade cha for dex, paladin deflection, monk untyped, at highest level as armor too)
spell DCs
attack rolls
you can even get cha to initiative with a level 1 feat...

I'm not saying it's the basis of the build, I'm just saying it'd be super cool.

And wait, none of your levels scale your familiar, so you never get shield other!
If you want that, you need to take like eldritch heritage (arcane).

I think uncanny dodge might be overrated. I would just go:
Scaled Fist Unchained Monk
Ninja
Ninja
paladin
paladin
Scaled Fist Unchained Monk
Sacred attendant Cleric worshiping Arshea
mystery cultist+(though never taking mystery cultist is ok, I still think the deific obedience to Arshea is easily worth a feat, better RP, etc.)

Now you get that extra attack right at first level, the 3 attacks at level 3, etc.

You don't *need* the protector familiar anyway - not with a great ac, great saves, and a bunch of abilities.

Also other domain: Freedom, not level dependent in any way, helps your team.

Uncanny dodge so rarely comes up. Put full ranks in perception and you're fine. *Especially* in PFS.

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The point of a spirited charge, I'll also mention, is not to leave it alive to retaliate.

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nicholas storm wrote:

The OP build belongs in the general discussion post "Most frustratingly weak characters you've ever experienced".

So does the crossbow one sadly.

TiwazBlackhand I'll go through math if you want but I think you do the same damage as a 1st - 2nd level character around level 9.

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Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:

Btw, I'm almost certainly never gonna use this character I'm just building him because of inspiration.

@ChaiGuy I love the idea of a necklace of fireballs. And I think earthbreaker is probably my best bet, isn't there a trait that can give you proficiency with one?

@blashimov I've looked through the monk weapons and close weapon group...the closest thing I found to hammer...is probably like gauntlets or something

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll have a semi play ready build up tomorrow probably

Yeah I was hoping there was but didn't see one either.

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OTOH you don't get any stat to damage, and base damage is a 1d6.
Why are you taking rapid shot with a heavy crossbow? You can't use it because reloading is still a move action.

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Yeah, check a spell guide. I'm telling you though, dominating undead...
mummy is in the title so I don't feel bad (i haven't played, run, or read it I'm just sayin)

Create pit is super fun I'll chime in, other suggestions good.

The great thing about dhampir is only being half vampire, the other half could be anything, making any bloodline ok.

You might also have fun with a mystery cultist of Arshea ;)
(can get CHA to ac and some other sweet, sweet bonuses but at the heavy cost of losing a caster level)
http://archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Arshea

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Ah, correct good sir thanks for pointing that out.

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Ooh, or take one of the abilities that let a wand act at your caster level, or craft a staff.

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Arshea is great for matching the character style. Here's why it's awesome:

Obedience
Achieve sexual release by yourself or with one or more partners. Praise the most beautiful aspects of yourself and any partners aloud, and offer a prayer to Arshea while still naked. Gain a +4 sacred bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks when interacting with an intelligent creature who could be sexually attracted to you.
Boons - Celestial Obedience

PFS Legal Mystery Cultist
Source Chronicle of the Righteous pg. 7
1: Arshea's Charmer (Sp) disguise self 3/day, mirror image 2/day, or charm monster 1/day
2: Flawless Form (Su) Gain an armor bonus equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum +1) whenever you wear revealing clothing and no armor.
3: Liberation (Sp) You can cast freedom once per day.

Mystery cultist also get +4 sacred bonus to charisma? Isn't this character all charisma? And not wearing heavy armor?

Plus the domain powers! Even for level 1, liberation for example..

also items: you want boots / cloak of elven kind.

Think of being in character man! Isn't sacred attendant way more fitting for Arshea than Torag??

You've got another problem: archetypes for unchained monk aren't allowed in PFS, so you couldn't be a scaledfist and an unchained monk.

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I'll lay out a few more specific differences for why I think this:
Unchained barbarian (if you're not going AM BARBARIAN RAGE LANCE POUNCE IMMUNE TO PUNY CASTERS) is fine, even better, but this is similar either way.

Both get greatsword, but barbarian also gets as you say all martials (mighty comp. bow, etc).
4 more HP at level 1 all the time, and double level temporarily (even as temp HP with unchained)
1 bab
you say two bonus feats from combat trick, except getting rage means you can get a better domain, or trade nature's ally for boon companion and save nature soul as a feat, plus get two rage powers, one of which you trade for divine fighting technique.

I don't think rogues can take slayer talent - only vice versa. You are just thinking of combat trick? That works fine since you're not skipping any pre-reqs, the usual reason for ranger combat styles.
Sickles don't have x4 crit, you are thinking of a pick.

Level 1, you can start with a greatsword and power attack - way better than druid 1 with rage domain for sheer combat. So much.

You can't even take animal ally at level 3, and you don't get boon companion until level 11.

Actually I'm going to stop there, because I don't actually know if you want me to help you rebuild the character to a) use the rules and b) be effective. Sorry mate I'd love to do that so I hope that doesn't sound harsh! But yeah.

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Gorum will fit the character much better.
At all levels you will have more HP, more damage, higher attack bonus.
You don't even get scouts charge here until 14th level.
You get uncanny dodge earlier.
Fast movement is traded out to your mount, or traded out for a bunch of other things with various archetypes.
Titan mauler is hilarious and great for an adventure path or if your crafting is limited, you can use the weapons of your fallen foes much more easily.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo-bar barian-archetypes/mounted-fury/

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SexyNed wrote:
blashimov wrote:

I think there are a few rare ways to increase animal companions above your HD, and basically the only ones i know of are to have your animal be a horse and aasimar nature oracles.

There are some ranged feats, but I rarely remember them.

Hi, can yo expand on the aasimar natures oracle thing? I'm doing some research, but can't find what you mean by that. How do the mechanics interact?

So Aasimar have a favored class option which is:

Add +⅙ to the oracle’s level for the purpose of determining the effects of one revelation.

Nature and Lunar mystery oracles have an animal companion revelation. So at 6th level you get an effective druid level of 7.

Cobbling together from other googling, might also consider:
Spirit's Gift, Evolved Companion Improved share spells, Stalker's Focus, Outflank, Paired Opportunist, Celestial Servant (aasimar)

You can go human, take the feat that makes you count as another race, take the eye for talent trait, and have a horse smarter than you to boot, and further unlock:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/huntmaster-human/

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Oh yeah you're also at ultimate mercy level for the paladin, can can use channel foci to trade channels between the lower cleric level characters and the higher level characters.

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Some more team player cleric spells:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/archon-s-aura/
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/vision-of-hell/

Note that if they fail their save on visions of hell, and are in an archon aura, they are at -6 vs a fear save. Fun times to combine with something that sickens.

Invisibility sphere is also fun.

I'm focusing on spells because for clerics and wizards it's relatively easy to change those out, vs waiting for more feats.

Bodyguard and boosts to aid another can really wreck AC for the team - depending a lot on how / if the DM allows improvements to aid stack, or if you have a halfling getting blundering defense.

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That gives me three ideas:
a race that starts with natural attacks
multiclassing slightly to get them
paladin of irori, one's self perfection morally and physically as an offering to irori

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Does pathfinder have way too many rules? Did you want a cool concept, but have no idea how to make it and don't want to bother your gm? Look no further! I love making characters. Provide as much or as little detail as you want and/or optimization level and I'll make you a character. I might get lazy on the math but all options can be filled in for you ^.^

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Oh yeah I've got a bunch
bard - dirge of doom with barbarian - terrifying howl
magician bard with casteres
arcane domain with arcane casters

oh wait for this party ok
wait why is someone 1 level behind with 4 npc levels?? 0.o

Errr, nothing specific to the classes really - you have 3 kinds of clerics so you've got all the usuals covered.

improved invisibility on the rogue.

there's a hellscape cleric spell that ups fear saves. Of course just shakening people in the first place lowers saves.

Shatter defenses also works for the rogue combo.

sacred summons in general but also for rogue flanks.

It looks like 5 combatants and the wizard, so anything that works for mostly everyone is great:
prayer
blessings of fervor
haste
divine favor or power cast by clerics individually
teamwork feats e.g. shield wall

are you talking about feats in the future? Or are they still building characters? or?

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I think there are a few rare ways to increase animal companions above your HD, and basically the only ones i know of are to have your animal be a horse and aasimar nature oracles.

There are some ranged feats, but I rarely remember them.

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They covered that loophole RAW:
Creatures summoned using this spell cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components (such as wish).

from summon monster.

Also yes to a smart GM just wouldn't allow it, for any number of reasons including "i said so"

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Here's a great one:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ultimate-mercy/

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Hmm I really don't see the benefit of going scout for 2d6 damage, vs say just a barbarian dip. Then you can take the animal domain (or fur or feather which are great), and I think there's even a barbarian archetype that stacks animal companion.

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He's probably thinking of spiritualist?

But yeah, mediums have some casting etc. and as mentioned on base get +3 to non-spell damage if you channel the champion every day.

This build works, it's one of those weird ones I do all the time where you just add in everything that's both a)martial and b) uses charisma.

But also why the heck worship Torag when you could worship http://archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Arshea

and take: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/mystery-cu ltist/

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You should get race adjustments if those are rolled stats, that's like half the point of rolling.

In terms of wading into battle wrecking face, I don't know that I could do better than the asmodean build above, though I wouldn't bother with the inquisition, or additional traits for that matter.
Devil, fire/smoke, magic/arcane are all great domains too.

You also don't have to be evil: http://archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Pact%20Servant

or you can go full deific obedience: http://archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Asmodeus

also prestige classes, depending on 8th level abilities and how much you want them: obviously conversion domain is quite good.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight -signifer/

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I really have no idea..

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I think fighter isn't worth it to sacrifice alchemist abilities. Especially as a bomber who is getting dex anyway. In fact, I don't even think precise shot is necessary, as you're targeting touch. You can always aim for the square, and deal very similar damage.

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It's funny if you blind yourself though. Might take the sun exposed trait!

Note that the undead bloodline removes a lot of the mind affecting problems. Confusion? Yes. Dominate Person? hell yes.

There are a bunch of disabling spells that make people cry. Alternatively, take evocations spells and tack on toppling spell, dazing spell etc. metamagic, perhaps with the arcana bloodline.

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So for level dips, start with unchained rogue, then go slayer.
You'll have an intensely similar feel, except you get weapon finesse and dex to damage for free at levels 1 and 3, more sneak attack, more skills.

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Rings of evasion and freedom of movement are probably great.

but yeah second this: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-perfection/

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Elixers of fire breath: also entertaining if a bit pricey sometimes.

There are lots of races that can give weapon proficiency that you want, or even a multiclass dip. There's got to be a hammer like monk weapon somewhere.

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If you want to be hilarious, get a tumor familiar with the protector archetype. It takes half your damage for you, and gets fast healing 5 while attached.

For a support character, mindchemist is great though you've mentioned you don't want to change to an archetype.

Agile amulet of mighty fists is also a good idea.

I don't know that you need all those different bombs, as a lot of things you bomb will just die. I recommend wings at level 6, but it's your character ^.^

Feral mutagen and amulet of mighty fists (agile) is hilarious if you get in a corner. Depends on your team.

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It would also be totally in character to take the undead bloodline, allowing you to as well enchant undead you encounter (vampires, mummys, skeletons, etc.) that used to be humanoids.

Are you starting at level 1?

str 8
dex 16
con 12
int 12
wis 10
cha 18

undead bloodline http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines -from-paizo/undead-bloodline/

feat: toughness (up to you but man first level sorcerers go down fast_
traits: pick the coolest campaign trait, and something fun like princess

spells: repair undead and sleep

HP: 11
AC 13
etc
skills: use magic device, bluff, diplomacy

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No, I'm not IRL friends with anyone here, though I'm happy to make your acquaintance :)

I'd like to keep y'all in mind for future digital but real-time chat / roll 20 games if you don't mind? Probably a lot easier to show off your good roleplaying.

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Switch to 5e and get advantage ;p

It's such a powerful ability, you'd need a number of sources of it but only fortune is going to last a combat.

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Or just...play an aasimar...this was like the least efficient, most complicated way of doing it and not legal to boot...

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There is a warpriest archetype that trades blessings but...I don't know of one that's more radical.

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Though honestly, I don't know how you could go with this build and not play a rogue with http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo-rogu e-advanced-talents/defensive-roll-ex/

or
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-ra ge-powers/rolling-dodge-ex/
though that one doesn't actually involve rolling. And rogues can stand up as a free actionhttp://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paiz o-rogue-talents/stand-up-ex/
unchained rogues get dex to damage to boot. But maybe I just love rogues (obviously druid or something more op, and goblin alchemist is definitely a thing... but...)

Though I don't have it all handy, there is definitely a feat chain for crashing into people with spiked armor - though I think originally designed for dwarves: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/spiked-destroyer-combat/

Note that there are of course several goblin feats related to lighting things on fire and I don't think it's really a spoiler to say reign of winter has a lot of things to light on fire...

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Also, note that as a slayer you have armor proficiency, which doesn't stack with bracer's of armor. Unless your dex is greater than +6 (and even then) you are almost certainly better off with mithril chain shirt or even celestial armor. Even then, you can get +4 to ac with a friendly wizard casting mage armor on you, especially if you just give them a 1k pearl of power for the extra spell slot (they're probably casting mage armor on themselves anyway).

Note that celestial chain is actually cheaper than +5 bracers...
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/celest ial-armor/

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For core classes, this works just as well for PF as 5e: https://www.lucidchart.com/pages/flowcharts/which-dungeons-and-dragons-clas s-should-you-play

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As a player I'm not mad at Akurna's player at all, this is alternately good horror but also possibly hilarious depending on how you squint at it. Just to be clear.

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Wow thanks! I was literally going to skip playing this out of laziness

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Super derp. Didn't see new posts and accidentally refreshing this page. >.<

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