Non evil enemies. That's really about it. Paladins are going to destroy evil foes, as they should at that level. Other than that, make sure that your foes get chances to magically buff. If they are this powerful they should get some smart tactics.
I would be very interested in playing. I'm looking at playing a human magus or possibly a half orc barbarian, depending on what people want. Working on the character concepts now.
Pretty much what it says on the tin. I'm trying to come up with abilities that different classes can use to really help buff each other. The thing that for some reason hadn't clicked for me until I started looking around at stuff was Just How Awesome Aura of Justice Paladin ability.
I mean really, at 11th level that's +Paladin's charisma to hit, and +11 damage, per hit, until the enemy is gone, and all of the party members with 30 feet benefit from it! That would absolutely destroy a single boss if the party can focus fire with those kinds of bonuses.
If it is Tomb of Horror's style, I would second the Zen Archer. Saves are really important with insta death style traps, and fighters have very few skill points and tend to have large armor penalty checks. I would just make sure that you have some magical capability in the party, since you will need it for, dispelling/IDing magical traps/utlity casting, etc.
Overall though, be paranoid, bring a lot of gear, and have fun.
Ahh, yeah, RotRL isn't very hard in straight combat terms. Also
:
Let's be real, if 75% of your encounters are 1. Giants, 2. Dragons, or 3. Huge Constructs/Giants/Outsiders then the gunslinger is going to have a field day.
In our RotRL game we had a ranger archer who was easily breaking 100 DPR by level 9-10, but our DM rolled with it, beefed up the challenges, and everyone still had a good time. Also, is good tactical action by the rest of the party enabling him to do all of this damage? A lone gunslinger is one thing, but one with a wizard and bard buffing them, with a meat shield blocking enemies stabbing him, is a holy terror.
Since it looks like other people want to play fighter types I'm going with the Ifrit Bard. Everyone needs a friend who can fast talk his way out of almost any situation. Utarah hires on to merchant caravans as a go between for different businesses, but has allegedly been involved in the instigation of several tribal conflicts.
I'd be interested. Finals end this week, so lots of free time in the near future. Thinking an Ifrit Ranger (maybe bard if someone else wants to play a fighter type). Any other info on the setting/type of scenario?
If anyone is interested, I actually took a THW fighter, barbarian, ranger, and paladin gave them the same stats, and compared DPR/Defense/save chances like in OP. It's not the "monster manual stat block", but it backs up what we expected. Fighters survived the longest(except for paladin self healing), barbarians did the most damage when raging (but actually died the fastest, because of the loss of AC), and rangers didn't do quite as well as fighters, unless facing favored enemy (as you would expect). Finally Paladins lagged in damage, unless against an evil enemy with DR.
:
1. Avg DPR vs a goblin dog (AC: 13)
2. # of rounds you survive vs a goblin Dog's avg DPR (DPR: +2/1d6+3)
3. % chance to succeed at a DC 15 Diplomacy, Knowledge, and Perception skill check ()
4. % chance to make a DC 12 Fort, Reflex, and Will save ()
1. DPR = (.65 x 16) = 10.4 DPR for Fighter/Barb/Ranger. (.75 x 17/18 for FE/Rage cases)= 12.75/13.5 for FE/in rage respectively. Paladins definitely come in behind with (..60 x 16) = 9.6 DPR normally, though when smiting it bumps to (.7 x 17 ) = 11.9 that ignores DR (so basically only on evil things with DR does the paladin come out ahead).
2. Goblin dog DPR = ( 6.5 x .3) = 1.95 DPR (2.6 against raging barbarian),
-Ranger: 7 rounds, Fighter: 8 rounds, Barbarian: 8 (7 when he rages).
-Paladin REALLY shines here (sorta), with his whole self healing thing. With his lower dex and 15 AC he’s taking 2.6 damage a round, which means he survives 5 rounds before falling unconscious… except! He has Lay on Hands for 2d6+4 self healing, which gives him an effective 11 more hitpoints. This bumps him up to 9 rounds of survival against average DPR. When smiting his AC jumps back to 17, and he has a staggering 12 rounds of survival (23 total effective HP vs. 1.95 DPR)
3. Save chances are Fighter (65%, 55%, 50%), Ranger (65%, 65%, 50%), Barbarian (65, 55, 50 OR 75, 55, 60 when raging), Paladin (65,45, 60). So shockingly enough, saves were about equal, with a raging barbarian having the best and ranger a close second (this will change next level with the paladin jumping in front)
4. Skill challenge: None of these guys really has much of a chance, but it basically falls out like this: with 1 skill point apiece, fighters and pally’s pick a skill and hope for the rest. Barbs can put a rank in each skill and at least roll. Rangers have enough skill points to diversify. That’s about it at first level.
It's not cheese. As a magus when you cast a touch spell you are specifically allowed a weapon attack to deliver it, in addition to your normal attacks.
I'm a student who moved to Tulsa and is interested in getting a PFS game going as well. Haven't had enough gaming lately and there will be lots of free time with summer coming up. Just chipping in to the discussion.
Semi-related note, does anyone know any good gaming stores around Tulsa? I've heard alien games down in Jenks is pretty good, going to try to go down there this weekend and see if there are of PF games around.
My favorite way to get it is to take a monk or ranger into horizon walker to get dimension door as a spell like ability. BAB isn't an issue, so you can have the whole like by 11 (IIRC). Also it's only a 3 level dip and it opens the door for horizon walker shenanigans.
Joanna, I think you're misunderstanding a bit. The "Sap" reference is to the feats, not actually for using a physical sap in combat.
Stream: I think you about hit the sweet spot with that build. From there on out, keep taking alchemist levels for better spell casting/discovery progressions. You take some BAB hit from all of this, but shooting against flat footed isn't as hard, and you're doing some silly amounts of damage.
I'd personally go with an Evangelist cleric. This party could use some more full casters, and with those combatants it's screaming for some buffing. Dwarf evangelist is the best of both worlds. Spire courage will help, the cleric can heal everyone, and you have plenty of spells for other buffs/utility/healing to help round out the party.
Also dwarf clerics are really tough and have high survivability, which will help given the rest of your party.
Oh man, I had totally missed that sap master requires flat footed, not just sneak attack conditions normally. That's even more constrained that I had expected. Nice build Streamofthesky!
Hrm... so assuming that you are shooting out of the cloud at someone less than 30 feet away, that's taking your base 6d6 sneak attack damage, doubling it for sap master, then adding +4 per die (between sniper's goggles and sap adept). That's 1d8 for bow + 12d6+48 per arrow... that's pretty crazy!
Hey all, I have a friend who really wants to play a rogue who sneak attacks from ranged. I'm currently trying to talk the player into an alchemist/ninja since a rogue would be under the level of optimization of the rest of the characters at the table. However, I've also never played a character using sneak attacks with ranged. Any suggestions for doing so? I saw sniper goggles and I think I remember reading about blunt arrows somewhere that can do nonlethal... maybe? I was thinking trying to build sap master into a ranged build for some ludicrous nonlethal damage between sap adept and snipers goggles.
Some info:
-Level 12, any race, class, feats, spells, from core, APG, UC, UM, ARG. Any gear from those sources or UE is probably good, but might need DM approval.
-20 point buy
-100,000 gold to spend.
Mmm... +4 from strength(mighty composite longbow), +2 weapon specialization, +1 bow, +6 from deadly aim, +2 from weapon training, +2 from bracers of archery, 1d8+2d6 elemental damage. That puts you at a minimum of 20 damage (maximum 37), just from class features, +3 longbow, a fairly cheap bracer item, and 2 feats. That's fairly optimal for a build, but it's not "broken" or anything. Looks like a solid build that's designed to pincushion things around level 10. The funny thing is that even a much less "optimal" build could crush those numbers with a little interparty buffing and cooperation.
I'd personally go with a champion of Iori. Dwarf or halfing for some racial bonuses to saves, then add Monk levels + Paladin bonuses, maximize wisdom and charisma. You get lots of smiting, and bonuses from multiple classes, two stats that you focus on, and you get enough damaging options that it should help some.
Don't forget power attack gives you 3:1 returns with a two handed weapon. So it would actually be +11 damage (8 from strength, 3 from power attack), and that would go up another 3 at 4th level when you get the second tic from power attack.
That's why two handed fighters are so amazing. They can really just rack up the static bonuses to damage, which is why I love them. I've never seen a game go all the way, but if you ever made it to 20th, I've put together a bare bones build that does over 300 damage in a single hit.
The reason people like it so much is that it gives you an extra option and the spell lasts rounds/level. You can fire off the extra shot each round as a move action, so you can still cast another spell while it is going, and it basically gives you an at will daze chance for the duration of the combat you cast it in. All for the price of a single spell slot.
And yes, it looks like your spell DCs are correct, and number of rounds is correct. If you are playing in a higher level game this is a delightful thing to pull with a rod of dazing, because that way you can jack up the DC and the # of rounds they will be stunned. And really, dazing an enemy for multiple rounds for a move action is awesome.
Hey all. Other than some odd dirty trick builds (maneuver master, orc dirty fighter) I've never really messed around with combat maneuvers. Is there a guide to different strategies with them? I have a fairly good handle on the system, but the number of feats related to maneuvers and different things at this point is huge and I don't have time to sit down with it for a couple of days at this point.
I'm thinking about trying to build a character who can bull rush/ overrun and was wondering if there are effective ways to actually deal damage with that. I assume monk or barbarian would be the best ways to go, but I haven't actually found a lot of support. Thanks for any help!
Also, what level are they? If it's below level 5, then definitely, they should be using other tactics, like getting some armor and wading into combat for the cleric/druid. The wizard can use his 1st level attack power or get a level 1 wand, or pull out a bow.
The best method of maximizing Vital Strike is a Monk of the Four Winds 15/Fighter 5 with a Monk's Robe and UMDing wands of Enlarge Person, Lead Blades, Animal Aspect (Gorilla Aspect) and Strong Jaw. This nets you a 16d8 punch with a Greater Vital Strike of 64d8. Since you are a Monk of the Four Winds, you can spend 6 Ki to take 3 standard actions in one round, netting your 3 Greater Vital Strikes, each dealing 64d8 on a punch.
Hey all, I've been asked to put together a character that specializes in throwing shuriken. I understand PF pretty well and I've checked out the guides for rogue and ninja, but shuriken just seem to be really sucky. They have such tiny range that they're essentially melee, and if you want to throw a whole lot of them you'll be taking a lot of penalties.
Some Specifics: 20 point buy, any races available, but core/common prefered. Core/APG/ARG/Magic&Combat are the available bookes so pretty open.
I was thinking something like halfling ninja (for the bonus to stealth, saves, +dex/cha, and the size bonus to hit).
Abilities(pre racial) 12, 16, 12, 10, 11, 14.
Halfling Ninja 10
Ninja Tricks: Vanish, Flurry of Stars, Weapon Training (WF shuriken), Shadow Clone, Vanishing Blade
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, ???, ???
The biggest issue seems to be that I have no real sources of damage! Sneak attack of 5d6 is nice, but that's only an average of 17.5 damage and I have virtually no other ways to add damage (I must be missing something). Also with (+7 BAB, + 6 dex, +2 magic +1 WF, -2 RS, -2 FoS= +12/+12/+12/+12/+7) my to hit seems absurdly low for a 10th level character.
Does this concept really suck, or am I missing something? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
I played a two handed melee paladin that used litany of righteousness and actually killed Mokmurian in two hits in ROTRL. That particular combo is devastating, however people have pointed out several legimate weaknesses.
1. Low AC- an AC of 21 was what I was rocking at level 10,
2. Slow movement: 20 feet per round won't get you very far. Even charging or double moving isn't impressive.
3. Lack of ranged attacks. I had a simple longbow, not even a strength composite bow. This almost cost us the fight against a dragon, because I couldn't actually get next to him for 5 rounds (freaking 200 foot fly speed).
Combine all 3 and you have a perfect candidate for someone who can get whittled down or destroyed by enemies at range. This was a huge issue for my character the two times I got separated from our ranger "minigun" archer. Yes, paladins have lay on hands, but if you get even two 7th level enemies plinking that character with arrows from 200 feet away he's going to be hurting or severely depleted on resources by the time he gets to them.
@c873788 that's a really sweet build. If I read that right you're going bite claw/claw/ ki point attack? Since all of those natural attacks do bludgeoning damage with bludgeoner, sap adept/master you take no penalties get massive SA bonuses, and with invisible blade you''ve got sneak attack against everything without see invisible. That seems really good, but couldn't you get more damage with an agile amulet of mighty fists?
Actually the highest damage character I have ever number crunched out (other than pre errata AM Barbarian), was a monk, though his stuff didn't really kick in until around level 15 and didn't get crazy until level 20 (and relied on a lot of buffs).
That being said, the second biggest damage from a single hit I've ever seen was just a straight Two Handed Fighter. Once you get their auto crit ability... well just carry around a scythe and do 250-400 damage per round, every round, depending on your build. Once again, that craziness doesn't kick in until level 19-20 though.
Hmm, he doesn't have dispel magic and can't fly without casting spells. Dispel magic will cut his AC down by chunks repeatedly, so you could theoretically fly around and dispel his saves down, and then dominate him. Just a thought.
Also, if you can find a way to sunder, he doesn't have any extra spell component pouches, so sundering that would mess him up something fierce.
That being said, that's a seriously formidable melee machine you're facing.
If going for pure archery DPR I would personally agree with Wasum. Ranger 15/16 with weapon master 4 will get you pretty much the best of both worlds. Those 4 levels of WM give you weapon training, weapon spec, and with gloves of dueling that gives you a bump of +3 to hit/+5 damage (assuming you had already taken weapon focus). This is better than your last FE bump, but you do give up other ranger features for it.
For archers I also personally like guide rangers better. Just my personal taste.
Make sure to do everything you can to maximize your AC and your saves. Holy vindicator can really make a great tank/survivable cleric. Given the enemies in that campaign and the huge amount of damage they inflict, healing is really important.
I would suggest steel soul and glory of old for save boosts, and to something like 15,13,17,13,19,9 with your ability scores. That will really help your saves and your spell DCs. Get yourself a cloak of resistance and the best armor, shield, and one handed weapon you feel like. High Armor will help a lot, and 13 int makes combat expertise an option to increase AC further. I would take selective channel if you like, and really after that any feats are up to you.
I'd really suggest getting into holy vindicator as soon as possible, since its benefits are really helpful overall. As for domains, not really familiar with cleric stuff for gorum, I've normally seen sun and some other stuff be really useful.
As long as the casters can give you some protection from breathe weapons you should actually be okay. Gather up and shortbows and have as many people shooting at it as possible. With the bard buffing people you should be able to land some shots on it, and with elemental resistances it should need to land on the ground to take care of you. Also, I don't know about your ranger archer, but throw every buff in the kitchen sink on him.
If the ranger has gravity bow going he'll be doing 2d6 base damage, buff him up with inspire courage, hopefully the bard has haste (if not be very sad, because that single spell could change this combat), GMW his bow, have the cleric bless and anything else he can. If you have any dragon bane arrows or the ranger has favored enemy that would be even better. At 9th level our ranger almost killed a dragon in a single full attack thanks to lots of buffs and a lucky critical.
Another thought on ways to attack the dragon, if anyone has wands have the rogue UMD them to attack, the monk can throw shuriken (not far, but it's way better than sitting on the ground twiddling your thumbs.
If you are with a caravan try to diplimacy with the merchants/people running it to see if they have anything that could be useful, point out that if they hold out on you they might not survive the dragon, etc.
Polearms is a rather broad class. Anything in particular that you would like him to be able to do? Personally, if I was going to build one, I would skip wisdom and just wear armor and act like a normal fighter. You can punch and kick to get you through the first few levels, and then at 6th switch over to polearms full time. Really, getting flurry with a two handed weapon is your big trick, as extra attacks are amazing with THW and you don't need many feats.
Do you want to do maneuvers? Or actually do mounted combat? Need a little more info here to really have something to flesh out.
I'm a little rusty on spells to change size in pathfinder and was wondering if there were any spells or class options besides Beast shape 3 or Giant size 2 to get up to huge size. Thanks for the help!
Ahha, if you're worried about hitting that level 20 damage, I have just the solution. Monastic legacy feat.
Monastic Legacy:
Prerequisite: Still mind class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage. This feat does not make levels in classes other than monk count toward any other monk class features.
Also, I agree, there is a limit to the amount of cheese that you should be throwing around at any one point. I wouldn't do this in a normal game, it would be something for a level 20 one off.
I completely agree, however I would try weapon master 3 (for unarmed strike weapon training or something) and a level of barbarian and lame oracle for rage cycling and furious finish. That way you take that 144d8 and maximize it for 1152 damage from the dice, plus all other riders. It would only pan out at very, very high levels. But it's a nice trick to pull out on an end game boss.
