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Pathfinder Society Member. 313 posts (989 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 9 aliases.


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Just to throw out, since you say you don't want to get your hands dirty and if you have all paizo sources allowed, I'd strongly suggest master performer and grandmaster performer. That's +2 to all bonuses from your performances, which would bump a lot of your buffs to your allies. Also haste is a bonus to hit and AC, not damage. Other than that what the others have said is solid.


I have the idea of a paladin of Abadar, who enters the tournament to ensure that the contract is fulfilled but the treasures remain in hands that would not wield them against civilization. Might need a little work but that would be great motivation and flavor.


Forgotten realms sounds fun. I haven't read or looked at any of that stuff in years.


Hrm, I'll change a thing or two up to heal better with my cleric, -4 cha really hurts the channeling through. We really need a wizard though, a prepared wizard is key to a party surviving dragons. I'll post in a bit with a character profile.


I'm thinking a Neutral evil cleric. Half draconic race, seeking to raise a horde of lesser dragons to serve under the dracolich the sorcerer is reviving. Working on backstory and stats tonight. Thinking just a straightforward cleric with death and destruction domains, a real harbinger of doom type.


I'd be happy to put together either a orc heavy hitting ranger, or a half orc arcane caster to round out the group. I read through the gameplay thread some, seems like some really good RP going on.


Sounds fun!


That's.... brilliant. That's also possibly the best buffer I've ever seen. Maybe even better than the aasimar buffer bard. Absolutely bonkers!


Wait Sensei stacks with monk of the four winds? That's... ridiculously amazing.


I'll put together an oracle tomorrow who can manage some healing. Just double checking, is necromancy going to be okay? The campaign setting screams evil necromancer to me, just wanted to make sure that was okay.


Looks interesting. What is allowed in terms of books and point buy?


It completely depends on the type of campaign that you're in.

Honestly I think pathfinder really works best as a Five man Band, not four. The group I've actually seen tear everything up the most was a Paladin(melee coverage), Guide Ranger(Ranged damage), Cleric (healing and divine support), Sorcerer(buffs and some arcane blasting), and Bard (stupidly effective buffs to hit and damage, and knowledge/skill coverage). That group was all straight out core races, core classes (with maybe 1 archetype), and they routinely WRECKED encounters at +3 levels.


If you have space for a 2 level dip, Nature Warden has a nice defensive buff for people optimizing favored terrains.

"Mystic Harmony (Su): At 2nd level, a nature warden in her favored terrain gains an insight bonus to AC equal to half her favored terrain bonus. She loses this bonus when she is immobilized or helpless."


That makes a lot of sense, with that kind of setting I'm not going to make a special snowflake who walks a strange tightrope or anything. I'm thinking a simple Elf or human wizard (diviner or illusionist for something a little different)


Color me very interested, several questions: would a barbarian with a bite attack and 2 claws while raging get 3 attacks, also, is necromancy on the table or would that be a veto. If so not a problem.


This is why you need to get a caster to cast Named Bullet on your deadshot before you fire it.


Color me very interested. I'll put together a character and backstory later today. I'm thinking a classic elf wizard, looking to make a name for himself after being thrown out by his old master for some petty offense or another


Oh ogres, why didn't I think of that! Thanks for the suggestions, those will work great. Man, those bloody skeleton ogres are really good for 5th level. Check my math if you don't mind, did I miss anything?

Ogre bloody skeleton, animated in a desecration.

HD 4d8
Init +4
HP 37 (4d8 +8 from Cha, +8 from desecrate)
AC 11(10 +2 NA -1 size + 0 dex)
Str 21, Dex 10, Wis 10 Cha 14,
BAB +3
Fort +3 Reflex +1 Will +4
Fast healing 1, Deathless.
Feats: Improved initiative

Attacks
Clawx2 +8/1d6+5
Greatclub +8/2d8+7


CL 6th


Hrm... after reading through, does anyone have any suggestions for good minions for a 5th level necromancer? Most of the best options require a lot more hitdice, or are kind of out of reach for lower level parties to take down.


With the aasimar alternative favorite bonus you can be summoning an elder elemental at level 10. Not bad considering that's a CR 11 creature all on it's lonesome and the equivalent of an 8th level spell.


Wait, wait, whoa. Did I just read the experimental spellcaster feat right? Could I take that with a wizard... and just get the undead word? Wow!


I've heard really good things about wrath of the righteous, sounds like a fun time! Question: are androids capable of casting magic and wielding divine power? I looked androids up on the srd and didn't see anything indicating otherwise. I'm thinking about a mystic theurge type, just wanting to make sure that casting was allowable. I figured that would help streamline roles in a party of 4.


Spell focus: conjuration, augment summons, superior summons off the top of my head. Other than that it's mainly picking which critters you want to summon and building your spell choices and tactics around that. Lantern archon holy tasers is a fun one once you're at 9th level.


Wait, if you're going to be a necromancer... why aren't you looking at animate dead more? Giants, especially the more impressive ones will make incredible skeletal minions.


Hrm, looking at level 8-10, so 4th/5th level spells to play around with and I'm not decided on a build, so feats and stuff are open.

Wait, you can fill up a portable hole with undead? That's brilliant! And as for the evil level... I'm leaning towards the neutral end, not really evil.


Well... that is certainly ONE solution. Maybe we could find one a teensie bit less evil? Or at least subtle. I'm also trying to figure out if there's any way to justify a necromancer in a party with a paladin, but that might be stretching it too far.


So I've been thinking about putting together a necromancer or possibly a juju oracle (thanks to ravingdork for some excellent inspiration). However, one thing I'm running into is the problem of actually having you minions follow you around. Is there a convenient way to have them at your disposal in case you run into trouble, but still not freaking out the local populace every time you leave a dungeon and venture into town?


I thought a God Wizard's backup weapon was a necklace of fireballs? Or a scroll of fireball? That or teleport, as mentioned above. Bonus points if teleporting to your personal sanctum, where there are other people/minions with pointy sticks waiting to stab anyone who comes in after you.


Craft skills, crafting feats, selling magic services, when you get to bigger towns, actively seek out higher paying jobs. Social skills can be really helpful here.


What is the rest of the party like? If you've got some skills and stealth between you all then heist jobs or sneaking into a bandit camp sounds like a good idea. At 3rd level it's easy to not have enough money, you might also think about crafting at some point.


Often times the best thing you can do to help a barbarian survive around level 5-6 is (somewhat paradoxically) buff the everliving crap out of her Damage. If she can kill everything around her with 2 hits, then she won't have to worry about taking as much damage from their attacks. In pathfinder, offense trumps defense the majority of the time.

In addition, as a wizard with 24 int at 6th level, your spell DCs should be plenty high to be throwing out some debuffs. I'll use an example: no archer will hit the barbarian if they're blind (glitterdust), melee will have a 50% miss chance. Also look at Create pit, Web, Grease, color spray, ray of enfeeblement, etc. If an enemy is blind, prone, and unconscious... then your barbarian isn't exactly going to have to worry about getting killed, now is she? In addition she can feel great because she's the one actually splatting enemies.

That being said, if you really want to help her survive purely from a defense side, then Mage armor, Blur (miss chance is often better than a futile attempt to buff barbarian's low AC), or anything that provides temporary HP/resistances/DR will help tremendously.

Hope that helps, if you want something more we're going to need more specifics about your build, her build, and the type of game you're playing in.


Of course, the best part of any summoner is having a handy bard sitting within 30 feet to buff the everliving snot out of all of the critters that are being summoned.


Hey all, I was looking over alchemist discoveries and just noticed boneshard bomb automatically reanimates creatures that you kill. Is this any good? It seems like it could be amazing (kill the dragon babies and reanimate them as skeletons to attack the mother? Check!), but I don't have any experience with the effectiveness of skeletal minions.

Is there a way to make this work well? If so it could be an awesome accessory ability to a mad bomber.


Hey, question after reading the guide. For absolute maximum bomb damage at level 10 with a tiefling, I'm seeing a cap of 5d6+ int +5(favored class bonus). That's pretty impressive, but are there any ways besides unstable accelerant of increasing this?


Darn, I was hoping for something a little more consistent. I know that non SA static damage bumps are usually the best, I was just trying to come up with something that didn't require other PCs. Though I suppose that's the whole concept behind SA.


Hey all, I see people talking about natural attacks being awesome but after looking at several builds I'm having a hard time seeing how you would be able to consistently get sneak attack, short of higher level stuff like improved invisibility. Am I missing something, or is sneak attacking with multiple attacks really a hit or miss sort of thing?


Not to derail at all, but wouldn't a level 10 alchemist with the undead discovery be immune to The Void? Suffocation says it can only target a living creature.


Nice catch on kirin style TGMM, that's an impressive boost for a simple little attack. Also that would give you a significantly larger damage boost than arcane strike.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/elemental-spell-metamagic


Thanks Imbicatus, I used the search function but must have missed those.


Thanks for the help everybody! That's not half bad. Actually, now that I think about it, are there any other buffs that would apply to this? (like inspire courage or maybe something else)


Hrm... okay. What about a sorcerer? Would the bloodline bonuses that are normally used help the damage from ray of frost/acid splash? If so I guess that would bump acid splash up to 1d3+3 for a crossblooded sorcerer with applicable bloodlines. That's really solid for level 1 at will effect.


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After talking to my friend he complained about how wizard cantrips are pretty worthless, and he couldn't see any reason why you would ever use 1d3 ray of frost instead of say, shooting a crossbow. I remember reading somewhere about making cantrips useful, but I can't come up with much of anything. Any help? The only thing that really jumped out at me was the intense spells evocation school power, but that seems like it would take a long time to add much.


Rival merchant gang beating them into town. If the PC's can't make good time their wares might be worth less than they were expecting (profession/skill/handle animal checks)

Caravan leader tries to pull a fast one and change your deal, demanding a bigger cut of the profit (diplomacy, intimidate, appraise, several different options).

Guards give them a hard time, or possibly the merchant's guild in the town they get to want their palms greased. Give them some leeeway in solving the pressure (find a way to blackmail the leader of said group, start rumors, drive a hard bargain, recruit allies, talk to the mayor).

Give them some sort of incentive to CARE about the encounters and you should get a better response. The greasy snivelling low life who "don't want no trouble to happen to you" might get a more lively response than guard #739 demanding 5gp.

Finally, some sort of river/ferry crossing! It's a classic trope for a reason, social encounter, opportunity for the PCs to save or possibly even earn some money. Combat is an easy optional add on, even a side question for a miniature aboleth who ate some customers last week. There are tons of things that you can add.


I actually played a paladin through that level range in RotRL, two options I'd go with are greater mercy (preferred) and furious focus to ignore power attack penalties now that they are getting bigger. You really just have to make it to 11th level, where you can break out aura of justice... and give the gunslinger, synthesist, twf rogue, and fighter +11 to damage. (our party only had 2 damage dealing characters and that still wasn't even funny when I unleashed that). Have fun, and...

spoiler alert:
seriously consider adding giant bane to your weapon


I know that most everyone around here likes to build characters that are as self reliant as possible, but in this case it's a known quantity that there will be a well built cleric, wizard, and bard in the party. Assuming the bard is optimized for support, and the other two are amenable to buffing the crap out of the damage dealers, how would that change the best builds for melee and ranged?

Normally I know everyone says two handed weapon fighting with static bonuses is the best hands down (I'm not disagreeing), but with a large bonus to hit and possibly damage as well, could other builds with more attacks surpass that standard?


Not to highjack the thread, but Ravingdork have you tried any other similar bite shenanigans with an alchemist? Their base bite damage from feral mutagen is 1d8 at medium size, and with improved natural attack, some wand abuse for strong jaw, and a master chymist dip to increase damage again via furious mutagen master chymist advanced mutagen feature it seems like they should be able to pull something similar off, especially with some of their extracts to increase size.


Ahh.. Nudel is the classic "Raging hippo" build. (I really just wanted to say raging hippo).

Druid until you can wildshape into a huge creature, then add barbarian to the mix. The key here is the 4d8 base damage that the behemoth hippo does with it's bite attack. From there you add in a few extra things, like improved natural attack, possibly an impact enchanted amulet of mighty fists, then you buff your bite with strongjaw and probably something else I'm forgetting. This elevates your bite base damage to some ludicrously large number of d8, which you then multiply via vital strike, improved vital strike... and then maximize via the feat furious finish. There is probably something I'm forgetting, but that's the bones of the build.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/hippopotamus/hipp opotamus-behemoth

Edit: Man I look at a thread that hasn't been replied to for almost 2 hours and RD ninjas me by a few seconds when I reply! Excellent build RD, I think it's really one of my favorites that you've done.


I would say that both are equally viable, albeit with different specific strengths depending on their build The two of them are really the standard for effective martial characters that many of the other classes have a hard time matching. A survivable paladin will do so via massive self healing, while a survivable barbarian will do so via very high DR to prevent them taking damage. Both of them can get high AC, both of them can forget AC and focus on massive damage.

The biggest difference between the two in terms of utility is that paladins can buff other party members more effectively than barbarians. At higher levels Aura of Justice can completely turn the tide of a battle with a massive boost to offensive output.

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