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FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 5,715 posts (5,974 including aliases). 22 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 24 Pathfinder Society characters. 5 aliases.


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There is still the very longstanding "how do bardic masterpieces actually work" issue as well as what does Simulacrum actually do.

Intensify wont do anything for you at this point.

Snowball is an OK damage spell but I would suggest something more useful for most groups. Grease makes an excellent choices, whether dropping enemies prone, disarming them or helping your allies escape or avoid being grappled and shouldn't have any table variation.

Colour Spray is still highly competitive at this level. Even against 5+ HD enemies a round of being stunned can doom them. It does have a very short range so it depends on how robust you are. It does overlap with your existing mind affecting stuff.

Burning Hands isn't a terrible choice to give you something which is useful against swarms which are pretty common in PFS.

Ear-Piercing Scream is an alternate single target direct damage fortitude based spell with a better rider than Snowball.

I would also recommend picking up a range of low level pages of spell knowledge. Good choices include Heightened Awareness, Shield, Liberating Command, Monkey Fish, Unseen Servant and Feather Fall.


pH unbalanced wrote:
There is also a Holy Staff in a Season 7 that can be purchased at a large discount *during the scenario* only.

Check out the GM thread. John confirmed it wasn't intended to give cheap access to the item.

Diego Rossi wrote:
Where spontaneous casters enter into the equation?

The Oracle Spirit Guide archetype gives access to a Shaman Spirit.


Dan was a good friend, a great GM and a joy to have on your table. He played a lot online and was hugely popular with the UK crowd. He will be missed terribly.

I m waiting on the results of my first spell in time stop before deciding on the rest of my actions.

Melkiador wrote:
Not sure, but it'd take 36 fame to be able to buy that, which means at earliest you could buy it at level 12, which is generally considered the end of a PFS character anyway.

You can have 36 fame by level 7. The main limiter is cost.


As I recall without looking it up one is in the starting camp, one is in the grave and Nikolai has one.

Steelfiredragon wrote:
do you mean fey bloodline?????

he is talking about the sylvan wild blooded version of the Fey bloodline which grants an AC.

The wildblooded bloodlines are all archetypes and not available to the Blood Arcanist.

Yorien wrote:
Poor visibility also prevents charging since it applies a movement penalty, unless the charging creature can see through.

Fog doesn't restrict movement normally as you can see 5' around you.

The Sideromancer wrote:

What if I make a horizontal Wall of Force, and then dismiss it after summoning something on top of it?

Wall of Force has to be vertical.

Alderic wrote:
Is there anything against summoning a critter and then using a Dimension Door to get it to where you need it to be? (High above your enemies) Sure you end up there yourself, but it's not such a bad place assuming you can fly...

Teleportation effects require you to land on a surface capable of sustaining your weight.


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
But would it be possible to attain a mathematical expression for *what* an increasing number of PP 'chart out' to in terms of 'gp', and then apply it to retraining from that perspective?

Personally I don't think you even need that. I would prefer to see retraining costs completely divorced from the idea of retraining time. Simply set a fixed Prestige and Gold cost (link it to level if you want) for each of the different retraining options and you have a simple, easy to understand and use system.


Matthew Downie wrote:
Could be someone wearing heavy armor they're not proficient with and taking a massive penalty to their attack bonus without knowing why?

Or using a weapon they were not proficient with or they left some penalty toggled on. HeroLab works extremely well but it does require the person using it to have a tiny modicum of common sense and actually know how their characters work.

Or he could have just moused over the number and it would have told him where any typed bonuses or penalties were coming from.

Texas Snyper wrote:
So I guess I forgot to include that one of his key things is that he is definitively a people person. He handles people well. The wildblooded INT wouldn't work.

That very much depends on whether or not you are willing to take the Clever Wordplay trait and run your diplomacy from Int. You could take Student of Philosophy (and run most of both diplomacy and bluff from Int) or Cunning Liar (Int for Bluff).

Making Int your primary casting stat means you also get a huge number of extra skill point.s to use and can max out the key social skills as well as a variety of others.

On your spells you have a lot of redundancy in there. I find for a sorcerer, even one specialised in a particular school) that there is still little benefit to taking multiple spells which largely do the same thing.

Feeblemind, Confusion, Terrible Remorse and Hold Monster are largely all doing the same thing, dropping powerful will saves on an opponent in combat. You really don't need 4 of those.

Unless you need to provide it as a buff Fly and Overland Flight are redundant. I certainly wouldn't pay the 9000gp for a Page of Spell Knowledge (or 4500 if you are crafting it). Phantom Steed and Fly certainly seem redundant together. I would recommend picking up Heroism as a great buff spell.

Spells I might consider as options include Heightened Awareness, Liberating Command, Glitterdust, See Invisibility, Page-Bound Epiphany, Daylight (deeper darkness is a pain), Tongues (especially useful for an enchanter), a pit of some kind and Emergency Force Sphere (for staying alive). I think you need better options for when your enchantment spells wont work.

For your remaining Feat I would suggest Improved initiative. As a control/save or suck caster you need to go first. I would also by lots of level 1 pages of spell knowledge for a variety of utility spells.

If you want a comparison, below is my level 11 Int based Arcane sorcerer. He is focused on conjuration rather than enchantment but you can see how the change to Int primary affects things. His Int is 2 higher than it would normally be due to a PFS boon he has applied to him.

Level 11 Int Sorcerer:
Gunther Gallonica
Male half-orc sorcerer (seeker, wildblooded) 11 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 70)
N Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +8; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +22

AC 21, touch 14, flat-footed 18 (+4 armor, +1 deflection, +3 Dex, +3 shield)
hp 79 (11d6+33)
Fort +13, Ref +13, Will +14
Defensive Abilities sacred tattoo

Speed 30 ft., fly 40 ft. (good)
Melee dagger +3 (1d4-2/19-20)

Sorcerer (Seeker, Wildblooded) Spells Known (CL 11th; concentration +25)
. . 5th (6/day)—overland flight, possession[OA] (DC 25), wall of force
. . 4th (8/day)—acid pit[APG] (DC 26), arcane eye, black tentacles, charm monster (DC 24), dimension door, dragon's breath[APG] (DC 24), elemental body I, emergency force sphere, enervation, fear (DC 24), shadow conjuration
. . 3rd (8/day)—aqueous orb[APG] (DC 25), daylight, dispel magic, haste, heroism, communal resist energy[UC], tongues
. . 2nd (9/day)—burst of radiance (DC 22), full pouch (DC 22), glitterdust (DC 24), investigative mind[ACG], invisibility, mirror image, page-bound epiphany, pilfering hand[UC], see invisibility, suppress charms and compulsions
. . 1st (9/day)—blend[ARG], burning hands (DC 21), charm person (DC 21), disguise self, ear-piercing scream[UM] (DC 21), feather fall, grease, heightened awareness[ACG], identify, liberating command[UC], mage armor, magic missile, monkey fish[ACG], shield, silent image (DC 21), snowball (DC 23), true strike, unseen servant
. . 0 (at will)—acid splash, arcane mark, detect magic, detect poison, ghost sound (DC 20), light, mage hand, mending, message, open/close (DC 20), prestidigitation, ray of frost
. . Bloodline Sage

Str 7, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 30, Wis 11, Cha 7
Base Atk +5; CMB +3; CMD 17

Feats Additional Traits, Endurance, Expanded Arcana[APG], Expanded Arcana[APG], Greater Spell Focus (conjuration), Improved Initiative, Persistent Spell[APG], Spell Focus (conjuration)
Traits clever wordplay, eyes and ears of the city, fate's favored, world traveler

Skills Appraise +14, Bluff +14, Craft (alchemy) +14, Diplomacy +29, Disable Device +28, Escape Artist +22, Fly +11, Knowledge (arcana) +26 (+30 spells), Knowledge (dungeoneering) +21, Knowledge (engineering) +11, Knowledge (geography) +11, Knowledge (history) +12, Knowledge (local) +13, Knowledge (nature) +11, Knowledge (nobility) +11, Knowledge (planes) +24, Knowledge (religion) +21, Linguistics +11, Perception +22, Sense Motive +13, Spellcraft +16 (+20 spells), Stealth +18, Survival +0 (+2 to avoid becoming lost); Racial Modifiers +2 Knowledge (local)

Languages Auran, Common, Draconic, Giant, Goblin, Ignan, Kelish, Orc, Osiriani, Polyglot, Terran, Undercommon

SQ arcane bolt, new arcana, orc blood, seeker lore, trapfinding +5

Combat Gear lesser extend metamagic rod, mnemonic vestment[UE], potion of gaseous form, potion of remove blindness/deafness, scroll of air bubble (x4), scroll of alarm, scroll of alter self, scroll of command undead, scroll of comprehend languages, scroll of crafter's fortune, scroll of dimension door, scroll of endure elements (x2), scroll of erase, scroll of expeditious retreat, scroll of gust of wind, scroll of life bubble, scroll of magic circle against evil, scroll of magic weapon, magic weapon, scroll of mirror image (x3), scroll of mount (x2), scroll of obscuring mist (x2), scroll of resist energy, scroll of ride the waves, scroll of rope trick, scroll of summon monster i (x2), scroll of teleport, scroll of unseen servant (x2), scroll of wind wall, wand of dimension door (5 charges), wand of grease (50 charges), wand of infernal healing (31 charges), wand of mage armor (23 charges), wand of shield (33 charges), acid (5), air crystal (2), alchemical grease[APG] (2), alchemist's fire (3), alkali flask[APG] (2), antiplague[APG] (2), antitoxin (2), blood-boiling pill (4), cardice oil, ghast retch flask[UE], gravelly tonic[ACG], heatstone[ISWG], holy weapon balm[ACG], reagent, cold iron (10), reagent, magnesium (2), reagent, pesh, reagent, phosphorus (10), soothe syrup[APG], soul stimulant[UE], stillgut[ARG], tanglefoot bag, tunnel creeper, vermin repellent[UE] (2); Other Gear +2 mithral buckler, dagger, belt of physical might +2 (Dex, Con), cloak of resistance +4, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, cracked magenta prism ioun stone, cracked magenta prism ioun stone, cracked magenta prism ioun stone, cracked magenta prism ioun stone, cracked pale green prism ioun stone (saves), eyes of the eagle, handy haversack, headband of vast intelligence +6, lesser talisman of freedom[OA], page of spell knowledge (blend)[UE], page of spell knowledge (disguise self)[UE], page of spell knowledge (feather fall)[UE], page of spell knowledge (investigative mind)[UE], page of spell knowledge (liberating command)[UE], page of spell knowledge (mage armor)[UE], page of spell knowledge (magic missile)[UE], page of spell knowledge (monkey fish)[UE], page of spell knowledge (page-bound epiphany)[UE], page of spell knowledge (shield)[UE], page of spell knowledge (true strike)[UE], page of spell knowledge (unseen servant)[UE], ring of protection +1, vest of escape, wayfinder[ISWG], coffee pot[UE], cold weather outfit, earplugs[APG], grappling hook, ink (2), inkpen (2), journal[UE] (2), masterwork thieves' tools, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, masterwork tool, measuring cord (10 ft.) (2), mirror, paper (10), piton (5), potion sponge[ARG] (5), powder[APG] (2), scroll case, silk rope (50 ft.), smoked goggles[APG], soap, spell component pouch (2), spell component pouch, trail rations (5), waterskin, winter blanket, wooden holy symbol of Abadar, wrist sheath, spring loaded

Lastly, I don't know which FCB you are using but if it isn't the extra spell known for every level from 4 onwards then it probably should be.


Paul Jackson wrote:
Uh, in my opinion the vast majority of errors caught by audits are NOT cheating but a case where the player made an honest mistake in what can often be a hideously overcomplicated and sometimes quite poorly written game, with a growing set of rules that change over time in ways that most people won't even notice.

Pretty much this. I audit a lot and I find a lot of errors, big and small, often linked to a FAQ, Erratta or forum posting that a player was unaware of.

PM sent. I can think of two ways of doing what I am doing and others may well exist.

Ravingdork wrote:
Yeah, but I don't see anything in the grappled condition that prevents the taking of remaining attacks. At worst, they will take a small penalty to hit

The penalty to hit is offset by the penalty to dex grappled creatures take.

Pathfinder doesn't really deal with three dimensions very well. A rider occupies the same space as a mount for example.


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I routinely audit my players characters. I primarily run online and I send out an RSVP mail about a week before game time asking for a character sheet and ITS. I will check them over, the more unusual or obscure the character or option, the more detail it gets looked at in. There is not formal process and, frankly, the system doesn't need one.

I will also occasionally spot check something while running, asking a player how they achieved a certain bonus, AC or effect. It helps keep players honest and makes it clear that I expect them to know how their characters work.

Red Griffyn wrote:

The animal companion adds some melee chops to my full caster with very little investment. But if I want to be the true full caster, the Lore Spirit (vs. Lore Mystery) allows selection of the following hex:

"Benefit of Wisdom (Ex): The shaman relies on wisdom rather than intellect to gain and retain knowledge. She can use her Wisdom modifier instead of her Intelligence modifier on all Intelligence-based skill checks."

So Wisdom would be swapped for Charisma and you end up getting Charisma to all intelligence skills instead of just knowledge skills.

If you are wanting Charisma to all skills I would generally go with the Ancestors Spirit. It gets Benefit of Wisdom and its spells are better for day to day adventuring (Heroism in particular).

If you want extra spells Human/HalfElf/HalfOrc offer a free choice from the existing list as an FCB, Wayang offers the option of plundering the Wizard list for illusions.

If you went Elf you could go for Ancient Lorekeeper.

You could prestige out into the Veiled Illusionist PrC which gives you access to illusion spells on the Wizard list but that means losing access to higher level Mystery spells or Spirit Guide spells.

Before you take Iron Will take Extra Item Slot (Shoulders) and equip it with a cloak of resistance. I also second the Nature Oracle dip.

Tarantula wrote:

I would like to change my action since I was only shunted 10'

Marv takes a 5' step toward the rhino and attempts to grapple it.

Do you want to use the roll for grapple I had above, since it never happened, or should I re-roll?

I am OK with that if our GM is.

I think that as long as there is a clear stat block showing your workings you can use whatever you want. Here is an example herolab output for reference:

Unnamed Hero
Male half-elf oracle (enlightened philosopher) 20 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 42, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 58)
LN Medium humanoid (elf, human)

Init +17; Senses all-around vision, darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision, scent, tremorsense 30 ft.; Perception +41 (+44 on checks that do not rely on hearing)

AC 46, touch 27, flat-footed 46 (+8 armor, +5 deflection, +11 Dex, +1 insight, +5 natural, +6 shield)
hp 226 (20d8+123)
Fort +19, Ref +16, Will +23; +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities fortification 75%; Immune sleep

Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 dueling adamantine spiked gauntlet +16/+11/+6 (1d4)

Oracle Spell-Like Abilities (CL 20th; concentration +31)
. . 11/day—undo artifice

Oracle (Enlightened Philosopher) Spells Known (CL 20th; concentration +31)
. . 9th (7/day)—astral projection, energy drain (DC 30), miracle, polar midnight[UM] (DC 30)
. . 8th (7/day)—mass cure critical wounds, divine vessel[APG], earthquake, fire storm (DC 31), frightful aspect[UC], moment of prescience, nine lives[ARG], greater spell immunity
. . 7th (8/day)—control weather, mass cure serious wounds, ethereal jaunt, holy word (DC 30), repulsion (DC 28), waves of ecstasy[UM] (DC 28)
. . 6th (8/day)—antilife shell, blade barrier (DC 29), mass cure moderate wounds, greater dispel magic, harm (DC 27), heal, wind walk
. . 5th (8/day)—commune, mass cure light wounds, major curse[UM] (DC 26), fickle winds[UM], flame strike (DC 30), life bubble[APG] (DC 26), plane shift (DC 26), true seeing, wall of stone
. . 4th (8/day)—air walk, blessing of fervor[APG] (DC 25), cure critical wounds, death ward, discern lies (DC 25), dismissal (DC 25), divine power, freedom of movement, ward of the season[ARG]
. . 3rd (9/day)—borrow fortune[APG], cure serious wounds, deeper darkness, invisibility purge, magic circle against evil, magic vestment, paragon surge[ARG], searing light, water walk, wrathful mantle[APG] (DC 26)
. . 2nd (9/day)—bear's endurance, bull's strength, cure moderate wounds, delay poison, grace[APG], owl's wisdom, pilfering hand[UC], remove paralysis, resist energy, silence (DC 23)
. . 1st (9/day)—ant haul[APG] (DC 22), charm animal (DC 22), comprehend languages, cure light wounds, divine favor, liberating command[UC], murderous command[UM] (DC 22), obscuring mist, remove fear, remove sickness[UM] (DC 22), sanctuary (DC 22), shield of faith
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, detect poison, guidance, mending, purify food and drink (DC 21), read magic, spark[APG] (DC 23), stabilize
. . Mystery Nature

Str 8, Dex 16, Con 22, Int 24, Wis 18, Cha 32
Base Atk +15; CMB +15 (+17 disarm); CMD 41 (43 vs. disarm)

Feats Craft Wondrous Item, Dazing Spell[APG], Eldritch Heritage[UM], Greater Spell Focus (evocation), Improved Initiative, Improved Spell Sharing[ACG], Persistent Spell[APG], Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Knowledge [arcana]), Spell Focus (evocation), Spell Perfection (flame strike)[APG]

Skills Acrobatics +5, Appraise +9, Bluff +35 (+37 to Feint), Climb +1, Diplomacy +38, Disguise +35, Escape Artist +30, Fly +25, Handle Animal +16, Heal +10, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (arcana) +16, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13, Knowledge (engineering) +13, Knowledge (geography) +13, Knowledge (history) +13, Knowledge (local) +13, Knowledge (nature) +13, Knowledge (nobility) +13, Knowledge (planes) +13, Knowledge (religion) +13, Linguistics +14, Perception +41 (+44 on checks that do not rely on hearing), Ride +19, Sense Motive +37, Spellcraft +36, Stealth +25, Survival +6, Swim +1, Use Magic Device +31; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Elven, Ignan, Infernal, Lip Reading, Terran, Thassilonian

SQ elf blood, oracle's curse (deaf), revelations (bonded mount, friend to the animals [30 ft.], mental acuity, natural divination, nature's whispers, undo artifice)

Combat Gear boots of teleportation, greater piercing metamagic rod[UE]; Other Gear +5 heavy fortification ghost touch impervious adamantine buckler, +1 dueling adamantine spiked gauntlet, dark blue rhomboid ioun stone, dusty rose prism ioun stone, orange prism ioun stone, pale green prism ioun stone, +8 bracers of armor, amulet of natural armor +5, bead of newt prevention[UE], belt of physical might +6 (Dex, Con), circlet of persuasion, cloak of resistance +5, gloves of elvenkind[ARG], handy haversack, headband of mental superiority +6, inquisitor's monocle[UE], manual of bodily health +2, page of spell knowledge (bull's strength)[UE], page of spell knowledge (commune)[UE], page of spell knowledge (comprehend languages)[UE], page of spell knowledge (deeper darkness)[UE], page of spell knowledge (liberating command)[UE], page of spell knowledge (remove fear)[UE], page of spell knowledge (searing light)[UE], ring of freedom of movement, ring of protection +5, robe of eyes, stone of good luck (luckstone), tome of leadership and influence +4, vest of escape, diamond dust (50000gp), spell component pouch (4), spell component pouch, wooden holy symbol of Gozreh, 2,140 gp

If you have the Int for it then Spell Specialisation but you need the relevant Spell Focus.

Additional Traits combined with Gifted Adept or Transmuter of Korada.

If you have the money for it buy an Orange Prism Ioun Stone.

You could always just take natural spell so you can actually use one of your major class abilities.


These two bullet points taken together rather suggest that Prestige purchased spells are at minimum caster level:


You can also use Prestige Points to purchase spellcasting services per the table on page 21.

If a character wants to ensure success with a spell that requires a caster level check or a specific caster level, hired spellcasters are able to cast spells at any caster level as appropriate, such as destroyed magic items that might require an extremely high caster level for make whole to repair them and restore their function. For example, remove curse requires a caster level check with a difficulty equal to the save DC for the curse; a caster level of 14 would be required to ensure success on a curse with a save DC of 15.

You would never need to buy a higher caster level cast if the prestige purchase was a guarantee.

I treat the 5pp cost increase as your faction making arrangements to have the right person in place. I will also generally only charge it once even if a group needs multiple spells cast.

I am happy with a rolled distance, 1d20x5' seems sensible given with live in a world of 5' squares...:)

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Tarantula wrote:

Golems also have construct traits though, which provide immunity to a lot more.

death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless), nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain

They do but none of those affect the key conjuration spells which you use to dismantle them. Acid Pit will destroy a surprisingly large number of golems all on its own. As golems have no skill points they are reduced to making challenging climb checks using only their strength stat.

In an actual game I find glitterdust is good enough to deal with most constructs as it leaves them ridiculously vulnerable to being dismantled by your preferred beaststick, whether that is an animal companion, eidolon, summons, cleric/druid/oracle/magus/bard or martial character.

The distance is fixed at 100', the only random bit is direction. I have suggested it should always still be inside the arena. I believe it would be knowledge arcana to work out rather than spellcraft.

Did we ever get any resolution on the issue of how wall of suppression works?

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Tarantula wrote:
Yeah, that paragon surge to pick up whatever metamagic feat you need is a great trick. Hows she do against golems?

Golems are stupidly vulnerable to arcane spellasters as some of the best spells are SR:No. Clerics and Oracles struggle a bit and have to rely on summons or smashing them to bits as the cleric list has few SR:No spells on it (a recent book gave them a pit spell). Druids just demolish them with melee attacks. Psychics are a bit stuck as they don't get pits, glitterdust, aqueous orb etc (although rebirth ones can get one). They are stuck with summoning or using charmed/dominated agents.

I do think that the increasing CR challenge option might be a better way of doing things.

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Tarantula wrote:

What would be more fun, is to take the combatants designed for the single arena fight, and throw them exactly as is to the escalating CR monster fight, or vice-versa. Take a character designed for escalating CR monster fight, and put them up in 1v1 situations.

Its not too hard to make a super specialized character who is great at their one trick. I think having to have rounded characters would equalize it out more.

Jadis is very far from specialised. She has access to an enormous range of options available to her. Interestingly I think it Is the martial builds which would suffer in such a situation as they are having to sink so many resources into competing with super initiative Diviners and trying to cover for all of the different types of things casters can throw at them. Jadis has 68 different spells to call upon between level 1 and 9.

I would have no issue with that although I think it is unlikely to make much difference.

I believe it was only potions and scrolls which were excluded rather than all one use items. At least that was what the original OP said.


Ragoz wrote:
Doesn't the adventure just start at the entrance to level 2? They were kidnapped and now they are here. Time starts now.

Part 2 starts in Shaine's office with him rambling at you as he does.


I am not sure how it is causing so much trouble? Skinsend essentially turns you in to a fairly terrible version of yourself. If he is actually running the homunculus how is that broken?

I cant see how he can recast it when he leaves his body behind elsewhere.

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Vidmaster7 wrote:
poison him with a delayed action poison that doesn't kick in till the fight starts.

Poison DC's tend to be terrible and it isn't hard to boost your saves to strong levels where you are only going to fail on a 1, assuming you don't just have delay poison up.

Blindsight works but tends to be very short range.

Alaric the Barbarian wrote:
Does blindsense not work?

Blindsense does work but it still leaves the target with total concealment negating opportunity attacks.

Jadis will happily take on the monk.

Jadis ceded initiative to her opponent.

Line of Effect is a term from the magic chapter which relates to more than just rays. See HERE.

Interestingly, Possession requires neither line of effect nor line of sight.

Also just to note, Herolab always gets benefit from spell perfection wrong. You should always manually check this.

Reading Wall of Suppression it repeatedly talks about effects passing through it. Does it apply to effects in place where it is cast?

Plane Shift lands you 50-500 miles away for your target location.


Thomas Hutchins wrote:
But the wizard or cleric don't have easy and obvious way to summon quickly.

Acadamae Graduate may be slightly obscure being from a very old players guide but its a free resource.

Sacred Summons is a bit limited but its from Ultimate Magic so pretty well known by now.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Not really. First, druids and wizards simply get fewer summons. Second, it's a much less viable tactic for them to spam their summons. Third, their summons last less long, which discourages them from just summoning in a huge swarm of lantern archons and powering through the whole adventure.

Fourth—and this is a bit more subtle—note the casting times. With wizards, clerics and druids, the summons takes a whole round. That gives the player lots of time to choose their summon, even if they're inexperienced. With summoner, they have to decide instantly.

Wizards, Clerics and Druids who are summoning are almost certainly doing so as standard actions. One round summoning is rarely worth it.

Jadis is ready to go again whenever our GM is unless someone else wants to step up on the caster side.

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Vidmaster7 wrote:
andreww wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Isn't it very DM player interaction to bargain with a Balor? I thought it gate worked quite a bit different from summon monster. I could see that being an issue.
not when you magic jar the Balor.
Wouldn't that still imply at some point you and the DM need some interaction when you solo and capture a Balor?
it happens mid match... probably in timestop, so you can also safely store your body.
You cannot use Magic Jar inside a time stop.
Thank you! He had me doubting myself I think he might have just been messing with me however.

I suppose technically you could cast it, you just couldn't possess anyone with it during the time stop as all other creatures are immune.

I don't believe Gate is an option during time stop either as it also targets a creature. Time stop refers to summoning allies, summons don't target, calling spells do.

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Bandw2 wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Isn't it very DM player interaction to bargain with a Balor? I thought it gate worked quite a bit different from summon monster. I could see that being an issue.
not when you magic jar the Balor.
Wouldn't that still imply at some point you and the DM need some interaction when you solo and capture a Balor?
it happens mid match... probably in timestop, so you can also safely store your body.

You cannot use Magic Jar inside a time stop.

You will have to wait and see.

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