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andreww's page

FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,986 posts (2,988 including aliases). 2 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Pathfinder Society characters. 1 alias.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
andreww wrote:
Making seeker a sage makes him a skill monkey very easily.

His Class Skill list is still a bit shaky...but that'd certainly help, yeah.

It is a little sketchy although seeker gives you disable device as a class skill. If you grab the student of philosophy trait you also become an excellent group face.


Making seeker a sage makes him a skill monkey very easily.


If you want to make use of scrolls then I would pay attention to three key rules:

1. Don't use anything which allows a save. Scrolls are treated as if cast with the minimum required stat making their DC often very low. This is also true for Wands. For example, a scroll of baleful polymorph will only have a DC of 17, unlikely to affect much you face at your level.

2. Avoid scrolls of spells which allow spell resistance. Unless you spend a lot more money scrolls come at the lowest possible caster level and are therefore likely to fail to affect resistant targets.

3. Linked to 2 avoid any spells whose effects highly depend on caster level unless you are paying for a higher level version. Examples include Dispel Magic, Neutralise Poison and Barkskin.

Otherwise scrolls are excellent for a wide range of utility, defensive and niche spells.


darkwarriorkarg wrote:
Wands of summon monster I are excellent for detecting most traps.

A wand of mount is better if you just want something to set off traps. Poor poor Dobbin.

You don't have a full arcane caster, I would consider a seeker sage sorcerer.


Franz Lunzer wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
I think I'm going to ban all of Paizo's 2016 products in my games. You know, for balance reasons. Plus, the editing is awful.

Yeah, as long as the editing doesn't become lawful, following the rules of grammar and the like... they are doomed.

DOOMED I say!

;)

Given the editing quality of some of the late Season 5 scenarios I don't think we are in any danger of that happening.


Mahtobedis wrote:

@Demon

Unless you disarmed a person with dazzling display before they have a chance to act I believe they will get their intimidate. It is my understanding that the rule about full round actions not happening until the start of your next turn is unique to spells. I do not recall reading anything similar to the rules or spells in the combat section. Also full attack is also a full round action (according to the prd) but no one tries saying your attacks are made at the start of you next turn.

Edit: having a enemy which doesn't have the feats to support a disarm attempt to do so on a character who has to demonstrate to that enemy that disarming them us important seems unfairly meta for a gm to do.

Full round action spells go off on your turn, they just take your standard and move action to cast. 1 round cast spells go off at the start of your next turn. They are very different things.


redward wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Ultimate Equipment says the SoMG transforms the clothing. The clothing is changed into other clothing, because that is what it says.

Ultimate Equipment says the Swarmsuit is clothing, so it is.

While I agree that SoMG is a lovely magic item for the price even if it doesn't do that. The rulebook says it does.

The Clothing section in my copy of Ultimate Equipment goes from Soldier's Uniform to Tabard. Is Swarmsuit listed in the Clothing section in your copy?

Swamsuits description calls itself clothing, are you suggesting it isn't?

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Wrong John Silver wrote:
Belafon wrote:

Mystic Theurge. (Well, MT with spell-like early entry, at least.)

Honestly it's more certain items I'd like to remove than classes.

True, the SLA early-entry is something that really made me question things. We should ban the aasimar and tiefling.

Oh! Well, then, good on you, PFS.

Why? Early entry doesn't do much more than bring Mystic Theurge and Eldritch Knight into the heady realms of maybe perhaps taking levels in whereas before they were very much traps for the unwary.

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Hey, it can be a great spell to use on any of those "helpless lost and sad children" who pop up from time to time in scenarios.

"Now dearie, just close you eyes, this wont hurt a bit, it will just be a flash of light and then you will be fine...."

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Kyle Baird wrote:
andreww wrote:
spellcasters have the greatest incentive to stay in class.
Fix the root cause and close that gap between early and late play for both types of classes.

Sure but that is going to take far more than tinkering around the edges. Unchained *might* help but not much short of a new edition which throws off the 3.x backwards compatibility mantra is going to really achieve it.

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I think it would be fairly obvious if something takes damage or not.

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Spoiler:
Explosive Runes!

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I find Burning Arc, like most direct damage, deeply underwhelming. The damage simply doesn't keep up with enemy health unless you engage in a heavy degree of optimisation.

Now if you want an excellent and little known level 2 spell then have a look at Burst of Radiance. Long range area effect blindness targeting reflex, commonly a poor save. It also has a minor damage component which will let you detect evil enemies!

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Kurthnaga wrote:
I probably wouldn't ban any class. Some options in an individual class may be slightly overpowering, but the classes themselves are fine. Some are stronger than others, but none is broken as a class alone in my opinion. The option I would take out first would probably be Persistent Spell from personal experience. Dazing Spell might be more powerful, but comes online late in the game. Even early, Persistent enchantments are super powerful. It doesn't matter how much hp/ac/defensive abilities something has, if you have a viable save or suck, they have a very high chance of dying.

Personally I rate persistent spell as basically the best metamagic feat in the game nowadays, especially for PFS where quicken will see little use. There are so many different save or suck spells which target each save that it really isn't difficult to make the right choice and take that 30% chance to save down to 9%. It is just incredibly potent when applied to anything from colour spray, glitterdust or suggestion (all will) to create pit or aqueous orb (reflex) to ear piercing scream or blindness (fort).

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Hmm, if I wanted to ban something then the Staff of the Master Necromancer would probably be up there. It probably doesn't come on line until the late game, a little earlier if you use Arcane Bond, but the ability to freely add persistent/dazing/quicken spell to your highest level spells is incredibly powerful. It is better than any metamagic rod you might pick up at the price it has.

In a home game it isn't so much an issue as you bit the recharge issue. In a PFS game though it starts each scenario at maximum charges giving you full use of it in every adventure.


Arachnofiend wrote:
...So does that mean I don't have to drag in my copy of the APG (and furthermore, cash in for UC/UM) to use its contents in my first Society game this Saturday. Because if so that changes everything for my Inquisitor

You must own the source and be able to provide a legal copy to the GM on request. That means either:

1. Bringing the actual physical book
2. Showing the GM a watermarked PDF
3. Printing out the relevant sections from the watermarked pdf

Note that a photocopy of pages from the physical book is no good as that does not establish ownership. Also if printing from your PDF make sure the printing doesn't actually blank your email address watermark.

Family members can share the use of books if they wish.

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Kyle Baird wrote:
andreww wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
I'd remove multiclassing.
Why do you hate martial characters?

**searches post**

Didn't see that statement. Thanks for making that leap.

OK, I was being a little bit hyperbolic but really, the removal of multi classing mostly impacts on non full spellcasters as spellcasters have the greatest incentive to stay in class. Given the disparity between, say, a well played straight druid and a well played fighter/rogue/barbarian I am not seeing the benefit in removing multiclassing.


Imbicatus wrote:
Frankly, I think the spell should be banned in PFS because it breaks the "no evil" rule. But I know it would cause much anguish and gnashing of teeth.

Do you really see it getting much use in PFS? Lesser Planar Binding isn't available until level 9 and only gets you a 6HD minion so pretty much something fairly minor like a Hound Archon or Bearded Devil. Normal Planar binding doesn't really come on line until level 11. Yes it can get you a succubus for a +2 to a stat but that is hardly game breaking. I would be more worried about someone toting along a Glabrezu. A CR13 minion is going to brutalise a lot of 7-11 content especially with at will reverse gravity or confusion.

However, what are the chances of actually successfully binding such a creature at level 11? It has a fairly weak will save of +11 but even assuming a 30 Int that is probably no more than DC27. You aren't guaranteed to ensnare it and how many of your level 6 spell slots is the average level 11 wizard going to devote to it.

This of course also assumes that you even have time to draw the circle and carry out the necessary preparations. Lots of scenarios begin with Drandle Dreng dragging you out of bed at 3am and having you teleported half way across the world into an almost inevitable ambush.


Tryn wrote:
Quote:

So, this is the poor man's Hat of Disguise?

Except, you know, no actual bonus to Disguise, or anything else.
For 1/10 of the price.. yes I would say exactly this.

It doesn't come close to an actual hat of disguise. It is giving you a set of clothing, that's it. 200gp seems like a perfectly reasonable price for it, whether it allows swarmsuit or not (and I tend to view it as doing so).


Claxon wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Claxon wrote:
The Abyss hath no fury like a Succubus scorned.
Which is why this plan usually ends with her as garden statuary. It's still not really a good plan, but it's doable.
That would only end with other, greater demons, taking notice that their play thing has gone missing. It might take time, but such actions would eventually have unpleasant consequences.

Not in PFS which is what the original question was about.

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Andrew Christian wrote:
NPCs decidedly do not follow all the same rules as PFS PCs.

NPC's may use different rules to PC's at the point of creation and may have access to material which PC's do not have but once they hit the table they use the same rules for play as everyone else unless something in their stat block calls it out as being different.

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Avatar-1 wrote:
Solid fog is a problem because Naroth can't see any targets. He can use it to create summons, but can he target squares within the fog that he can't see? And if they're not summoned outside the fog, then the summons can't see the PCs to target them (or are they meant to be stationary until they can?). I didn't know acid arrow could be used to disrupt a spellcaster like that, though it makes sense now that I think about it. The tactics should have been specific - it just says to cast it "at a PC", so I thought the intent was damage, not disruption (another reviewer said something similar). In my game, the fog got blown away by the spellcaster, so this would've been another big difference if he'd failed to cast it.

Line of Sight is only required for individually targeted spells. Other spells, such as rays, summons or area spells, can be placed either by seeing the location/target or by defining it (eg 50' ahead of me). The relevant text is:

Quote:

Effect: Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present.

You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile, after it appears it can move regardless of the spell's range.

From here.

As for Acid Arrow it can be used to force concentration checks but the DC to concentrate while subject to ongoing damage is 10+haf damage+spell level which is going to be pitifully low. Best case scenario for him assuming a fairly unoptimsed level 7 PC casting a level 4 spell means a DC18 check against someone probably rolling at least +12.

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Andrew Christian wrote:
But dipping a level of crossblooded sorcerer (orc/dragon) so you do +2 damage per damage die with your Wizard spells

Finally, a way to actually get vaguely encounter relevant direct damage spells as opposed to the anaemic rubbish they are without it. Also you missed the Goblin Fire Drum for +3/dice. The move from 2e to 3e murdered direct damage as an effective form of magic as HP scale far faster than damage dice do.

Quote:
or dipping a level of Cleric of Gozreh so you can get the Growth subdomain so you can enlarge 7 rounds per day with your otherwise reasonable Dragon Disciple...

Or they could just cast Enlarge Person, its only level 1 and lasts 1minute/level. Dipping and losing yet another caster level seems like a terrible idea.

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Kyle Baird wrote:
I'd remove multiclassing.

Why do you hate martial characters?

Straight up no PrC wizard, cleric, druid, oracle, sorcerer or witch represent some of the most potent PC's around, even more so in PFS where you can be pretty certain of the number of combat encounters you are going to have in any one session.


Tryn wrote:

If I interpret the sleeves correct they function like a hat of disguise, but limited to clothing only. This means the new clothing is only an illusion, the base cloth don't change at all (same AC, abilities etc.) [like the Glamered Armor enhancment].

Why do I interpret it this way?

Aura faint illusion; CL 1st
Craft Wondrous Item, disguise self; Cost 100 gp.

Link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleev es-of-many-garments

Except that the item very specifically says that it creates a set of clothing. The fact that you require disguise self to make the item is neither here nor there. The item specifically says:

Quote:
The wearer of these sleeves can, when she slips them on, choose to transform her current garments into any other non-magical set of clothing.

Change it for your game if you wish but it is a houserule.


Planar Bind a succubus for a +2 profane bonus. It is PFS legal but you will have to redo it for every scenario and you may well not have the time at the beginning to do it. It also requires a level 6 spell so is only reliably available at level 11.


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It all depends on whether or not you treat the reference to clothing in the Sleeves description as literally only meaning items on the clothing list of equipment lists.

The swarmsuit specifically calls itself clothing. The fact that you wear it over other clothes doesn't seem to be relevant. You wear a jacket over other clothes, you wear trousers over your underwear unless you are Superman.


JoeJ wrote:
Taking 10 on a skill is not possible in dangerous situations (unless the character has Skill Focus, of course). So no taking 10 while disarming a trap, or trying to sneak past guards. (I do allow, however, a character to take 10 if they don't know they're in danger, which mainly just makes it a bit easier for me to have NPCs make Perception and Sense Motive checks.)

This is not what the take 10 rules say.


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You want to make someone go away for ever? Killing them permanently is difficult. There is however another way.

Step 1: Capture your target using whatever method you prefer. I like baleful polymorphing my enemies into squirrels but your preferences may well vary.

Step 2: Cast Mind Blank on your enemy. They can no longer be located by any form of magical scrying or divination known to mortal magic, including Wish. The spell lasts 24 hours, make sure to keep it in place until you are done. Don't lose your squirrel, it could be difficult to find again!

Step 3: Head to some out of the way place no-one is likely to come by and which is geologically stable. Some random bit of the elemental plane of earth or an outer plane is never a bad idea.

Step 4: Imprison your foe with the Imprisonment spell. They are now trapped in temporal stasis far beneath the earth. The Mind Blank will remain in place while they are imprisoned as they are in temporal stasis. No-one can find them with magic and the likelihood of someone randomly casting Freedom at exactly the right out of the way spot on an infinite sized alternate plane of existence is infinitesimal.


Interesting thread. Here we have the classic seeker sage sorcerer, an Int based primary caster with the ability to disable magical traps.

So, how does he achieve the various classic rogue tasks:

Stealth:
With a starting stealth skill of +25 he is certainly comparable to a lot of dex based rogues at this level. When you add in invisibility he becomes almost impossible to spot and he has 27 level 2 or higher spell slots to make use of it. Silent Spell allows him to make use of his magic without giving himself away.

Infiltration:
Naturally high stealth combined with a mix of spells allow him to gain access to almost anywhere. Dimension Door, Elemental Body for Earth Glide, Invisibility, a high disable device skill, all combine to make him an expert infiltrator. He also has an answer to blindsight and blindsense. As he has skill focus (stealth) he can paragon surge for Dampen Presence allowing him to stealth around dragons. Flight (from elemental body I) is his answer to tremor sense. Scent is an issue although potions of negate aroma are cheap and its range tends to be limited. He can also operate fairly openly with Disguise Self and knows a wide array of languages to allow him to fit in. Paragon Surge for Tongues is also an option.

Theft:
+17 sleight of hand is OK at this level but not huge. However he can make such checks at range with Pilfering Hand. As noted already he is also very difficult to keep out of an area he is determined to get into.

Traps:
Between a +28 on trap detection perception and detect magic no mundane or magical trap is going to escape his notice. +26 disable device will disable every trap in the CRB with a take 10.

Face Skills:
+21 Bluff to deceive, +20 Diplomacy to convince, charm person, memory lapse, suggestion, charm monster, he has a wide range of ways to act as the party face.

Combat:
He has a number of the best battlefield control spells going. Grease, Create Pit, Gliitterdust, Aqueous Orb are all excellent. He can also make all of them persistent. He can also sneak around the battlefield invisibly dropping summoned monsters on people. Pilfering Hand for spell component pouches, holy symbols or simply disarming 3/4 BaB types such as Clerics and Rogues is also hilarious. He can also bring a range of minions through command undead, charm monster or a paragon surged animate dead. Defensively he has mirror image, invisibility, flight through elemental body, obscuring mist and the ultimate in defence emergency force sphere.

Other options:
Between air bubble, endure elements, touch of the sea, darkvision and elemental body I he is capable of operating in almost any environment. Arcane Eye allows him to undertake reconnaissance in near complete safety and dimension door gives him excellent group tactical options. Misdirection and Nondetection let him operate largely without concern for low level mooks with detect magic or even BBEG's. Noticing him sneaking about invisibly through his non detection and misdirection requires a CL check of 25 and a DC20 will save.

Finally note that all of his skill numbers are liable to be 2 points higher as he will have Heroism running.

Weaknesses:
His strength and charisma are 7. Is that a big deal? Well carrying capacity could be an issue but with ant haul his light load becomes 69lbs. His medium load is 138lbs and the only real impact it would have is a -3acp. Shadows are an issue but they are an issue with a strength of 10 or even 12. Str reducing poisons might be an issue but honestly poison DC's tend to be low and I would definitely be looking to grab a delay poison from the group cleric. I would also look at carry some potions, they are only 150gp. Low charisma might be an issue if he had low charisma skills but he doesn't. Making most of bluff and diplomacy into Int based helps enormously. Charisma damage/drain is virtually non-existent.

Sorcerer Rogue:
Male Human (Varisian) Sorcerer (Seeker, Wildblooded)
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +23
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 20, touch 13, flat-footed 18 (+4 armor, +2 shield, +2 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection)
hp 72 (10d6+30)
Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +11

--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.

Sorcerer (Seeker, Wildblooded) Spells Known (CL 10th; concentration +22):

5th (4/day)—summon monster v

4th (7/day)—arcane eye, charm monster (DC 22), dimension door, elemental body i, emergency force sphere

3rd (8/day)—aqueous orb[APG] (DC 21), dispel magic, heroism, nondetection, paragon surge[ARG], suggestion (DC 21)

2nd (8/day)—command undead (DC 20), create pit[APG] (DC 20), darkvision, glitterdust (DC 20), invisibility, mirror image, misdirection, pilfering hand[UC], resist energy

1st (8/day)—air bubble[UC], ant haul[APG] (DC 11), burning hands (DC 19), charm person (DC 19), comprehend languages, detect secret doors, disguise self, endure elements, feather fall, floating disk, grease, hydraulic push[APG], identify, liberating command[UC], mage armour, magic missile, memory lapse[APG] (DC 19), obscuring mist, protection from evil, shield, silent image (DC 19), snowball (DC 19), touch of the sea[APG] (DC 19), unseen servant

0 (at will)—arcane mark, detect magic, detect poison, ghost sound (DC 18), mage hand, message, open/close (DC 18), resistance, spark[APG] (DC 18)

--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 7, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 26, Wis 11, Cha 7

Base Atk +5; CMB +3; CMD 16

Feats Craft Wondrous Item, Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Persistent Spell, Racial Heritage (Half Elf), Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Perception), Skill Focus (Stealth)

Traits reactionary, student of philosophy

Skills Appraise +12, Bluff +11/21 to deceive, Diplomacy +10/20 to convince, Disable Device +26, Disguise +8, Escape Artist +20, Fly +6, Knowledge (arcana) +23 (+27 bloodline spells), Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (engineering) +9, Knowledge (geography) +9, Knowledge (history) +9, Knowledge (local) +21, Knowledge (nature) +9, Knowledge (nobility) +9, Knowledge (planes) +9, Knowledge (religion) +9, Linguistics +9, Perception +23/28 for traps, Sleight of Hand +17, Spellcraft +14 (+18 bloodline spells), Stealth +25, Use Magic Device +2

Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Giant, Ignan, Infernal, Terran, Thassilonian, Varisian

Special Qualities arcane bolt, mutated bloodlines (sage), seeker lore, trapfinding +5

Gear +1 mithral buckler, belt of mighty constitution +2, cloak of resistance +3, eyes of the eagle, gloves of larceny, handy haversack, headband of vast intelligence +4, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, [i]cracked pale green prism ioun stone (saves), stalker's mask, vest of escape, wayfinder, masterwork tools (perception, stealth, escape artist, diplomacy), +1 ring of protection, +1 amulet of natural armour

Pages of Spell Knowledge: air bubble, ant haul, comprehend languages, darkvision, detect secret doors, endure elements, feather fall, floating disk, hydraulic push, liberating command, mage armour, magic missile, obscuring mist, pilfering hand, protection from evil, shield, touch of the sea, unseen servant


Ravingdork wrote:
Anzyr wrote:
You know who really wins at Armor use? Druids. They get to use fullplate in addition to all the DEX bonus they can muster. (Btw, if you don't know why this is, please consider not continuing this conversation.)
If you're referring to using wild armor while wildshaped, that is a really expensive enchantment that does you absolutely no good if you aren't wild-shaped. It's high price tag and form limitations keep it from being unbalanced. It's not even readily available for crafting until about 8th-level, or for purchasing until about 11-level, if your GM is following the wealth-by-level guidelines. And that's just for a +1 armor!

It is a +3 equivalent enchant which means 16k+ for +4 equivalent armour so you wont see it much before about level 10. By that time the druid is wildshaping 4/day for 10 hours per use which pretty much means you can guarantee them being wildshaped whenever they want.

I am not sure what you mean by form limitations?


It still isnt worth it even for half cost.

Also if you dont have it already Craft Wondrous Item will provide you with a far bigger discount as the majority of useful gear for you is crafted by it.


Experiment 626 wrote:
They're not considered weak in combat - just the opposite. They don't have many options outside of it. Adding a couple of skill points/level would help a lot.

Not quite. I would say that they are generally fine at dealing HP damage providing they are capable of making a full attack.

Unfrotunaely the ability to make full attacks becomes harder to achieve as you go up in levels and face more opponents who fly or teleport or what have you. The fighter also have some fairly glaring defensive weaknesses which can easily result in them spending most of an encounter doing nothing.


Gorbacz wrote:
3.5 Royalist, Shallowsoul .... oh, wait.

I havent seen a Shallowsoul post in ages, we must be due one soon?


At level 7 you are definately better off sticking to Mage Armour. The bracers are horribly overpriced, 16k is a lot to get the same benefit you have from a level 1 spell.

The Haramaki idea is OK but again you are spending nearly 10k to duplicate the effect of a level 1 spell. For the same price you could pick up a +1 ring of protection, amulet of natural armour and jingasa/dusty rose ioun stone for +3AC on top of mage armour.

If you are interested in investing in AC then look at getting a mithral bucklet. It has 0ACP and no arcane spell failure meaning you can wear it without problems.


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I find Ashiels posts generally well thought out, well contructed and thought provoking, even when I disagree with them.


Hmm, for a cleric I would have a bunch of condition removal spells on scrolls but be careful to only take those which have little caster level dependant effects:

Remove Sickness
Remove Fear
Lesser Restoration
Delay Poison
Suppress Charms and Compulsions
Remove Paralysis
Magic Circle
Remove Blindness (have a potion as well to use on yourself)
Restoration
Breath of Life (in a spring loaded wrist sheath)

I would keep the following handy buff/utility spells on some scrolls:

Comprehend Languages
Endure Elements
Align Weapon
Resist Energy (at CL7 as a minimum)
Daylight
Invisibility Purge
Wind Wall
Air Walk
Death Ward
Freedom of Movement
Plane Shift

I would avoid the following as scrolls as much as possible:

Any spell which allows the target a save
Any spell which is subject to spell resistance
Any spell which is highly dependent on the caster level (Dispel Magic, Cure Disease, Remove Curse, Neutralise Poison etc)

If you want spells to use offensively then scrolls of Summon Monster which are at least of your highest level of available spell are a decent option.


ryric wrote:
Pendagast wrote:
oh I don't like the lowest CHA gets attacked by the animal… an optimizer is going to use that to build a tank, so basically you created an exploitable mechanic where the character is building "aggro"…so basically he can tank against anything that does employe tactics in combat.
Well the whole point of the houserule is that low-Cha characters have trouble getting what they want - so if he was trying to tank he would get ignored. It's less of a hard-and-fast thing and more "the universe tends to dump on you."

The difficulty with making these decisions based on the stat is that it completely ignores the impact of skill ranks. A charisma 7 cleric with a single rank is diplomacy is rolling at +2 and has more than offset the penalty from their base stat. As they invest more ranks in the skill the impact of their stat becomes negligible.


Anzyr wrote:
Any min/maxer worth their license (yes we have licenses, totally /blatant lies) will tell you that even with early entry Mystic Theurge is only "ok". The only PRCs really worth considering in Pathfinder are Evangelist and Exalted. And even then, 1/19 and straight 20 builds are better in a lot of cases. Well... unless you can tack on Eclectic/Esotetic Training... then yes Mystic Theurge is pretty crazy.

I have been looking at the bloatmage recently and it has potential for the wizard. You lose 2 bonus feats but gain up to 3d12 extra levels of spells per day. Not a terrible trade off.

With early entry you also get to steal sorcerer bloodline powers at level 11.

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Walter Sheppard wrote:

It's super juvenile, but something that helped my home game was the "talking pen." This is like the "talking ball" for anyone who is in my same fourth grade class.

Basically, only the person with the talking ____ is allowed to talk. When they finish they pass it to the next person. This really helped when the table was getting drunk/excited. People respected that talking pen.

It just feels too demeaning to implement at a random PFS table.

For our home games what we found really helped was taking half an hour or so to have a proper natter about not gaming related stuff and getting it all out of the way before we moved to the table. That helped get everyone far more focused on what was happening in the game.

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Violinist wrote:
On one hand, neat! I've already brewed up a Kitsune fighter aimed at the full nine-tailed experience. Still haven't found anything interesting to do with Nagaji or Wayang, but, hey, I didn't even know the whole nine-tailed feat even existed until now. A net win, in my book.

There are some interesting Wayang Oracle options given their FCB ability to add Wizard illusionist spells to their spells known. Now we just need the spell known Faqrratta to actually account for it and make sure it still actually works.


Buri wrote:
JoeJ wrote:
So what fighters need, probably, is not godlike strength and endurance feats (the previously mentioned destroying a mountain or diving into lava) but more ability to diversify.
Like the brawler?

Maybe but the Martial Manoeuvres ability in the last playtest was pretty awful. If it wasn't limited to an handful of daily uses and wasn't shackled to combat feats only it might add something. Has it been expanded since the end of the playtest?


sunbeam wrote:

I missed something. Summoning is a full action for Oracles isn't it? They don't qualify for that Sacred Summoning feat as far as I know.

And aren't the Preservationist "pokebottles" a standard action to use?

I could be wrong, but that was my impression and definitely makes the Preservationist competitive with the Oracle.

They don't qualify for sacred summons as they lack the aura feature. It actually ends up as not a huge deal as sacred summons looks good but ends up being a bit disappointing. The list of creatures actually affected by the feat is vanishingly small and they are often very much not your best picks.


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JoeJ wrote:

So what fighters need, probably, is not godlike strength and endurance feats (the previously mentioned destroying a mountain or diving into lava) but more ability to diversify.

Personally I think there are two areas they could do with a buff in. Inside combat they, like all of the martials, are too stuck with the full attack routine. Anything which prevents them from making their full attack basically renders them pointless.

Outside of combat they need something to give them a lot more versatility. More skill points, tricks they can access at higher skill ranks, something really that actually lets them accomplish things within the context of the mechanics.


Master of the Dark Triad wrote:

Paragon surge, while not explicitly banned at the moment, would be seen (and in my opinion, rightfully so) as cheesy. So I'd rather just go human or aasimar than half elf.

Paragon Surge has had a major errata and is now significantly less cheesy and more liable to be accepted. Now once you pick a feat you are locked into that feat choice for the rest of the day together with any secondary choices, such as the extra spells from expanded arcana. They have also erratted gaining extra spells from off your list so that the Improved Eldritch Heritage trick no longer works. Of course they broke a bunch of other stuff doing so and we may therefore see more changes there.


LazarX wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:
ikr? it makes mystic theurge and eldritch knight ACTUALLY WORTH CONSIDERING.
I still don't understand of the point of taking these PrC's without the spell casting classes to back them up.

I don't see anyone suggesting doing so. I took AndItMustMask's comment to mean that the PrC's were now potentially viable options individualy, not that they should be somehow mixed together.

Personally I think the best early entry is probably the Garuda Blooded Aasimar Cleric 2/Empyreal Sorcerer 1. The See Invisibility SLA deals with the arcane side while Trickery or the Fate Inquisition can give you the divine requirement. All of your casting works off Wisdom so you can also take some of the best offensive arcane magic.


JoeJ wrote:

Back on topic then, how would you compare martial vs. magical characters when the scenario isn't a video-game-like boss fight but an entire extended campaign where it may take years of planning, gathering resources, and developing intelligence before the group has even a prayer of taking on the enemy leader himself?

It's not who does what in the last battle that matters so much, but how much of a part each PC has had in the campaign to get to that point.

Sure but then this comparison still favours magical characters over martial ones. Clerics and Druids gain access to useful spells like Speak with Dead, Commune, Commune with Nature or even stuff like Speak with Animals/Plants/Stone. Arcane casters bring the whole panoply of enchantment, divination and conjuration magic to bear.

Martial characters are limited mostly to what they can achieve either through mundane skill use or what they can go by convincing the GM something should just work and there is your problem. Magical characters also get to convince the GM of stuff that should just work without needing a roll and often get far more skill points than martial characters. They can also circumvent all sorts of skill checks through the use of spells.

If you are in for the long haul political, espionage, intrigue style scenario then the last thing you want is a character who, on level up, gains +1 to hit things with a pointy thing and 2 skill points.


Scavion wrote:
andreww wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Aasimar are irritatingly the best oracles due to their fcb.
Not really. Halves elves are significantly better due to the extra spells known FCB and access to Paragon Surge, even post nerf.
Scion of Humanity Racial Heritage(Half Elf)?

Oracles are, like clerics, fairly feat starved as it is. I wouldn't want to waste one getting access to extra spells known when I could just go ahead and gain it through my race.


JoeJ wrote:

But he's in an adventuring party with a guy who can tear mountains apart with his bare hands and shrug off nuclear weapons, a woman who can defeat the freakin' god of war in melee, and a guy with a magic ring-of-whatever-I-want. It must be really boring to be Batman, since he obviously can't contribute anything.

Yep, and what Batman accomplishes he manages through author fiat, something which martial classes rather lack access to.


Scavion wrote:
Aasimar are irritatingly the best oracles due to their fcb.

Not really. Halves elves are significantly better due to the extra spells known FCB and access to Paragon Surge, even post nerf.

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