|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
Smoked Glasses are something to have in your pocket for emergencies. A +8 save bonus and you always count as averting your gaze is pretty amazing. Sure you take a perception penalty and give your enemies concealment but that's better than ending up a statue or worse.
Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
Isn't there a couple of feats that give you an animal companion?
I am fairly sure it takes three. You need Natures Soul, Animal Ally and Boon Companion to get a full strength animal companion. Even then you have to pick from a limited number of choices from which only the camel, pony or wolf are capable of carrying a rider. They are pretty weak as options go.
Even if you do chose to make such an investment you then need to start devoting some of your limited skill points into Handle Animal as well if you want any chance of making much use of it in combat. You will also probably need a lot of ride or expect it to get murdered pretty hard.
Detect Magic and Detect Scrying don't say they are immobile and therefore they are not. The Globe appears centered where you are and stays there. You can go off and do other stuff if you want but the Globe stays where it was cast.
And the consensus from most of the PFS DM's in that thread would leave you standing there with an ability that does not work the way you claim.
I am not sure I would count two or three people as providing a consensus for anything. I have played with plenty of PFS GM's who recognise what it does and live with it, some happily, others less so. Personally I think it is an idiotic ability which could do with being hit by the nerf bat but that is still no justification for intentionally misreading it because you don't happen to like what it does.
So you still are not moving and full attacking on your turn. What you are doing is wasting your entire round setting up combat patrol and then hoping the enemy actually provokes an opportunity attack allowing you to get into their face and then full attack on your next go. What exactly do you do if instead of walking into your version obvious preparation they attack you with a ranged attack, acrobatics past you, fly over you, teleport behind you, cast a spell or do basically any of the things which mid to high level enemies are more than capable of.
Look for better mounts. I'm sure you can find options if you actually try instead of standing around saying "I don't want to acknowledge that option."
Good luck with finding those better mounts. You mention the figurines later on, lets have a look at them shall we:
Bronze Griffin: 10k so probably not viable until about level 10, usable twice per week for 6 hours, what were you planning on doing for the other 5 days? Is a CR4 creature with 42hp, AC17 and 7/6/4 for saves so likely toast to the first aoe.
Ebony Fly: Also 10k, 3 times per week for 12 hours, works as a CR3 Pegasus, even weaker than the Griffon.
Goat of Travail: useable once per month! Works as a Nightmare which is still only CR5 with a meagre 51hp. 21k so good luck seeing it much before 12th.
Marble Elephant: 17k so probably no earlier than 11th level, 4/month so basically worthless for adventuring, works like a CR7 elephant which is a liability at 11, is huge so will be extremely inconvenient to use
Obsidian Steed: 28500 gp so not likely to be seen before 13th, a CR5 nightmare is terrible at this point and it can only be used once per week.
So no, your fighter isn't likely to make much use of such mounts, not unless he wants to waste a bunch of feats mounted combat and drag around a lot of animal corpses.
It's very clear, yes. You make a bluff check instead of making a knowledge check. That is, you lie in place of actually knowing.
No, it is very clear that this isn't what it actually does but you are simply invested in hating this particular piece of cheese that you choose to twist what it actually does. Seriously, just avoid PFS if you cannot handle stuff like this because this is pretty low down on the cheesy options list.
Combat Patrol is cool... But giving up your full attack for AoOs is not all that impressive... Especially when it requires Dodge and Mobility....
If it didn't have two fairly poor prereqs then it might almost be worth doing but even then it is often going to be a terrible idea as you are giving up your entire turn in the hope that the enemy provokes. It also becomes less and less viable at higher levels as enemies will often by flying and/or teleporting about.
Combat Patrol doesn't allow you to make full attacks, it just expands your threatened area. It also has the downside of being utterly awful as you waste your entire turn telegraphing what you are doing to the enemy and then hoping they then move through your slightly larger threatened area.
Mounted Skirmisher is OK for a ranger or paladin but given the fighter will be riding a normal animal it isn't going to last long against even the most incidental of area damage. That's a lot of feats to waste.
Kyle Baird wrote:
I don't personally see an issue with alertness, NPC's want to notice the players coming to be able to prepare.
Kyle Baird wrote:
Sure, building them organically is fine but even so many of them have combat related feats which do next to nothing for them with very little reason for them to have them.
I pulled up a random 7-11 to see what might be found....
Warning, spoilers within for Cultists Kiss
OK, so one of the end boss enemies is a Vampire Sorceress. Her feats include combat reflexes, point blank shot and weapon focus ray. She has 5th level spells and knows all of two ray spells, Scorching Ray and Ray of Enfeeblement and her tactics have her barely using any of them. Her vampire Cleric ally has leadership which is quite literally doing nothing for him and extra channel despite already having 8 channels per day. I am fairly sure you could find similar examples in lots of scenarios.
I don't expect NPC's to be at the bleeding edge of optimisation. Obviously PFS has to cater for groups across the spectrum of competence but too often it seems to be skewed towards the easier end of things. It would be nice to see some more hard modes and perhaps some more effective tactics or even an opportunity to free GM's to determine their own NPC tactics.
Mobile Fighter wrote:
Rapid Attack (Ex): At 11th level, a mobile fighter can combine a full attack action with a single move. He must forgo the attack at his highest bonus but may take the remaining attacks at any point during his movement. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. This ability replaces armor training 3.
Doesn't count, this is not a feat chain which is what Artanthos was claiming.
Mounted Skirmisher wrote:
If your mount moves its speed or less, you can still take a full-attack action.
This is a terrible idea for a fighter. You are using an ordinary normal mount in combat. It is going to die horribly over and over again from incidental damage.
Dimensional Dervish wrote:
You can take a full-attack action, activating abundant step or casting dimension door as a swift action. If your do, you can teleport up to twice your speed (up to the maximum distance allowed by the spell or ability), dividing this teleportation into increments you use before your first attack, between each attack, and after your last attack. You must teleport at least 5 feet each time you teleport.
Fighters cant cast dimension door to meet the requirements. This thread is about fighters versus barbarians.
Dervish Dancer wrote:
Dance of Fury (Su): At 12th level, a dervish dancer can attack more than once as he moves while performing a battle dance. He can combine a full-attack action with a single move, taking the attacks at any point during his movement, but must move at least 5 feet between each attack. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. This ability replaces soothing performance.
Again not a feat chain and not really relevant to a discussion about the fighter.
David Bowles wrote:
I am always surprised at how many PFS NPC casters come armed with point blank and precise shot as if using their terrible x/day d6+stat blasts was ever going to be a good option or if those feats would be a good choice even if they were. It is very mysterious.
Marroar Gellantara wrote:
Exactly, none of them are feat chains. Mythic is irrelevant, the entire mythic system is busted, quick runners shirt is great for using once during a fight but wardrobe changes mid combat don't really work very well. Mobile Fighter is OK but you have to give up your highest attack which is a significant cost as well as having had to take 11 levels of fighter which is awful.
Then I would reiterate the previous advice, running PFS is not a good idea for you if you need to go through the sort of mangling of the language necessary for that interpretation to actually stand. Pageant does what it does. Its a bloody stupid ability and should probably have never been published but we are stuck with it. Twisting it like this is simply going to piss off people who sit down at your table expecting it to work in the way it says it does.
I should add that I have no real stake in how it works, if anything the reverse. I am quite used to crushing knowledge checks with my Lore Oracle and then I ran Hall of Drunken Heroes with a bard using it who routinely hit 50+. It was mildly annoying but he was enjoying himself and Casomir has plenty of other stuff he can do.
While this can be true it might be nice if the published mechanics didn't make it quite so easy to do quite so often. It is also something that can happen quite by accident.
Hmm, holding a VC rank is no indication whatsoever that the person has much understanding of how the rules actually work. Many of them do, quite a few appear not to.
Playing Impossible Sorcerer:need to know good enchantment (compulsion) spells and some goods spells from other class lists
Bear in mind that the Impossible Bloodline only allows you to treat your spells as not mind affecting against constructs. It does not remove the magic immunity ability which the majority of golems and many other constructs possess and they therefore will still not work on them.
Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
I use the +1 initiative ioun stone on everyone.
I will buy the saves only boosting pale green one before upgrading a cloak of resistance from +2 to +3 as it is 1000gp cheaper than doing so.
The dusty rose prism is popular because an insight bonus to AC is rare.
The Clear Spindle in a Wayfinder has to be one of the most common ways of avoiding a lot of unpleasant status effects.
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Can the bloodrager take rage powers? As things stand they don't get any at level up. Could they take the extra rage power feat? Bloodrage counts as rage for feat pre-reqs so possibly.
As things stand the barbarian almost certainly does the pouncing near magic immune agent of death and destruction better than the bloodrager. If the BR can take rage powers and has the feats to spare they might be able to come close but I doubt it.
I would remove SLA's and other things that allow you to access the prestige classes earlier than intended. Perhaps make it a rule that you cannot access prestige classes until level 5
As things stand early entry into things like the Mystic Theurge or Edritch Knight pretty much just about brings them up to the level of maybe perhaps taking.
I can see an argument that leaving such options limited to only a small number of narrow races/domains is not a good idea but as is if we go back to MT having to have Arcane3/Divine3 then frankly it may as well not exist.
I have never seen Globe of Invulnerability ever be an issue as it may as well be renamed Globe of Utter Suicide. The Globe is immobile so you have to stand there and take full attacks from people with pointy weapons which is a terrible idea.
It is also available with an easy to access non AP specific trait with vagabond child. A single trait isn't much of a cost if traps are likely to feature heavily in your game and far less of a drag on the party than bringing a rogue along.
Arithmancy looks fine provided the player does the working out before the actually start to play. The feat is OK from a mechanical point of view, +1 caster level for a relatively low spellcraft DC check might be worth a feat slot.
Sacred Geometry is just madness in every conceivable way. It's like the authors ignored everything anyone learned about giving away free metamagic from 3.0 and 3.5. I can only think someone had some sort of aneurism when writing this. Added to that it potentially adds a significant amount of table handling time to the game if you have a less than proficient player.
I can only hope it is never allowed into PFS as it has the potential to wreck an entire tables experience as every combat encounter either grinds to a shuddering halt or is trivially eliminated with some abusive metamagic combination.
A jacket goes on over your clothes. Your trousers go on over your underwear. Having layers of different items does not make something not clothing, especially when the description of the swarmsuit specifically calls itself clothing.
Waht "simple level 2 spell" is that?
Aram Zeys Focus, it even gives you a bonus to your disable device checks, even more if you already have trapfinding from an archetype or trait for example.
Sez who? Looks like a trap to me. Besides, like I said "or similar spells". And a Rogue can easily have Detect Magic, not to mention Bards get it.
If it was a trap then it would give us a DC to detect it and to disable it. Compare it for example to Glyph of Warding and Fire Trap which specifically calls them out as magical traps. This is reinforced at the bottom of the Disable Device skill section which doesn't reference Alarm at all.
So that is one of the 8 skill points the Int primary spellcaster is getting from the start. And as they gain levels they will gain more as they will be increasing their Int with level ups, something the rogue wont be doing. And they will also be investing in an Int headband so if traps do become an issue they can simply gain a maxxed out skill immediately. Oh and as casters they can also more easily craft things like the Vest of Escape or Burglers Boots.
Also the ability to disable magical traps is a simple level 2 spell so you don't have to bother messing around with dispel magic.
Finally if your smart trap setter is scattering around alarm spells then your rogue is completely screwed as they are not traps, cannot be detected with perception and cannot be disabled with disable device. Your advance rogue scout just alerted the enemy and engages the encounter on his own. That isn't likely to go well for him.
You could sell it back for half price but honestly I wouldn't bother. Even if you run into a GM who says it cant turn into a swarmsuit it still has plenty of uses and the 200gp cost is fairly trivial. You will make more than double that in your next session. I would buy some other anti swarm measures such as acid flasks (only 10gp) as even with the suit you need some way to get rid of swarms.
The whole illusion aspects for me also falls apart as there is nothing in the description of the sleeves which suggest how such an illusion might be adjudicated. Consider for example the text for the Hat of Disguise:
This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, and so on.
The sleeves contain no such wording. Personally I would suspect any PFS GM taking such a tack to have a rather antagonistic player vs gm mindset and would probably avoid their table in the future.
Reach, Quicken, Dazing and Persistent are the four powerhouses for clerics/oracles. Given the lack of divine spells which ignore SR then Piercing can also be a good choice.
Excellent spell perfection divine spells include:
Flame Strike, apply dazing to it and you are imposes 5 rounds of doing nothing to multiple enemies. Half the damage ignores any resistance or immunities so you will always be able to apply the debuff with it.
Blade Barrier. This one is insane. Again apply dazing to it. It deals force damage so pretty much nothing has an immunity and it can directly affect incorporeal enemies as well. It lasts for 1 minute per level so is almost guaranteed to murder anything it hits unless they can make the save as it continues to damage them.
**Word, these spells are less about metamagic (although you can apply persistent) and more about boosting your caster level. Varisian Tattoo and Spell Specialisation mean you cast a level +6 Add an orange ioun stone and at level 15 you are casting it as a level 22 character. Add in a necklace of prayer beads and it is 26. That kills enemies with up to 16hd and severely weakens those up to 21hd.
Mass Inflict Light Wounds, this is a terrible spell but at level 5 it can easily have dazing applied to it and is rather more discerning than Flame Strike. Negating the actions of multiple opponents for 5 rounds is likely to end many encounters.
Plane Shift. You get Plane Shift as a level 5 spell. With reach spell and quicken spell (and a trait) you can be banishing people at range to the elemental plane of screw you with a swift action.
Zach Williams wrote:
I am not really sure why rogues are seen as so terrible. While they require much more forethought and finesse than fighters I have had my frontline, weapon finesse, improved feint rogue destroy enemies while maintaining an ac of around 31 at level 7 in skull and shackles using almost no homebrew rules, with a DPR of around 23 with only a +1 Rapier.
The problems with rogues are pretty well known by now. They are a primarily melee class with only 3/4 BaB, no inbuilt method of increasing accuracy, weak defences, poor saves and lowish HP. Much of their offensive power is also rather situational.
23 damage per round at level 7 is also pretty terrible. That is less than a third of a single equal CR opponent and that is an encounter a group should be able to waltz through.
I would also be rather dubious about how they are achieving AC31 at level 7 without utterly screwing up their offence.
It is an excellent resource and I would urge anyone who wants to run to give it a thorough read through. I would personally make one change:
- eleventymillion for reading out any form of box text in a dull monotone
Seriously, boxtext went out in the 80's and we can do better than simply narrate some often rather purple prose at the players, half of whom may well not even be paying attention.
Start your game by grabbing the players attention, refer to them by their character name, ask them questions, make eye contact with them, speak directly to them as the NPC. Provide the same information but for gods sake don't just read through the prose and expect to keep anyones attention for more than a few seconds.
Andrew Christian wrote:
I didn't say that all magic was weak, I said that evocation damage does not keep pace with HP inflation because it doesn't. We know if doesn't because Paizo helpfully provides us with the outline table to the sort of expected HP and save numbers of different CR opponents.
So, you reach level 5 and you have finally achieved the mighty Fireball spell. Loaded for bear you unleash fiery death at your enemies expecting to see them all fall before you...at 5d6 damage is does, on average, 17.5 damage, if the enemy fails their save.
CR5 opponents generally have saves of around +4 to +8. At level 5 your DC is probably around 19 so you may well be looking at a 50/50 chance. A creature that saves is taking 9 damage. CR5 opponents have around 55hp so even if they fail their save you are doing less than one third of the health of an equal CR opponent. That is pretty terrible as far as damage goes.
But wait, surely things will get better when we start adding in metamagic. OK, we get to level 7 and start throwing empowered fireballs because we took a trait. We are now doing 7d6*1.5 for on average about 37 damage. That must be much better surely? Well your DC is still around the 20 mark but monster saves are now between +6 and +10 and on a save you are doing less than 20 damage. CR7 opponents have on average 85hp so even on a failed save you are looking at less than half their HP. Still pretty awful.
And this is just looking at equal CR monsters. When you start facing things that might be an actual threat then it gets even worse and we haven't even figured in SR or elemental resistances or immunities.
Evocation is the weakest school of magic unless you invest heavily in it. Crossblooded brings your expected damage to a point where you might reasonably take out an opponent in a round or two. As things stand if you don't invest extremely heavily in it evocation does terrible damage and you are far better off disabling things with stuff like glitterdust and leaving the damage dealing to the weapon wielders.
Sorry didnt mean to imply he was 1st. At 10th he is running with 26 diplomacy and 23 bluff and can increase both with the right spell. At 1st it woukd have been +10.
Myles Crocker wrote:
my primary current character has a charisma of 7 and a starting diplomacy skill of 26. Stats on their own never tell the whole story.
If glitterdust is part of your opposition school then so is stinking cloud and aqueous orb. Banning conjuration is a very bad idea, get it back with opposition research as soon as possible. In the meantime take slow.
Dazing Rods are expensive, 14k for a lesser one, 54k for a normal one which his best spell version will require. If going down that route I would look at picking up a Staff of the Master Necromancer. I might almost be tempted to take arcane bond to get it for 15k if +4 initiative wasn't such a great deal for this type of character.
You cant combine them because crossblooded is counting as modifying pretty much all levels.
If you want to maximise damage then yes the crossblooded dip is pretty much your best way of doing so.
I would be dubious about the benefit of heighten/preferred. It is an OK choice but you are investing a lot of feats to do something you can get just by being careful about what you memorise. Personally I would want Greater Spell Focus as another way to increase your chance of landing the full damage. You may also want to consider dazing spell as a way to start applying powerful control potential at level 8.
Note that if you are using rods then you need to have one which meets the requirements of the spell slot you use to cast the spell so intensie empowered fireball is level 4 for you and requires a normal rod.
To maximise your damage potential also pick up a Goblin Fire Drum. With a DC12 perform check to start and a move action every round you add +1 damage per caster level.
Diego Rossi wrote:
You might be wearing a guards uniform but I still doubt you look much like a guard unless most city guards are carrying a wide range of weird material weapons, potent looking magical items and bags full of crampons, rope and alchemist fire.
In addition to the insane disguise potential, you can also get the environmental bonuses of the various outfits.
Given it doesn't change what you actually look like I am not seeing that it has any real disguise potential. If you want to disguise yourself buy a Hat of Disguise, that's what it is designed for.
I buy them for on demand hot/cold weather suits and swarmsuits. In a certain recent scenario we also found some weird holy radioactivity suits. In the unlikely event a similar situation ever appears again I suppose they might be able to mimic them as well.
Personally I have no issue at all allowing them to become swarm suits. I can certainly see how a far more conservative view might disallow it but personally I think that approach is wrong as the suit specifically calls itself clothing. Ruling them out I consider requires a fairly antagonistic player versus GM mentality that I prefer to avoid.
I have no idea never having met him before today but the likelihood of him hitting would be low. For the first encounter AC29 and 2 range increments away with little focus on dex and likely not much of a plus on its bow gives a low low chance. A 1 on my knowledge arcana check also meant we had no idea of its DR until the cavalier got into range on about round 5 and hit it with a cold iron weapon. For the second encounter it kept teleporting behind full cover meaning he might get 1 shot per round if he got into line of sight and it also had significant DR so his bow was unlikely to penetrate.
What are some of the best designed Feats, Traits, Spells, etc. and what makes them so well designed?
Captain K. wrote:
Conceptually the sorcerer bloodlines are cool but mechanically they are a complete mess. there are a handful of really strong choices, arcane (generally good), sage (Int casting, yes please), Infernal (for charm users), Fey (for compulsions), sylvan (if you want a pet) or crossblooded draconic/orc.
Beyond that they are fairly horrible. Serpent/Undead can have some uses but they are very limited and generally way too many of the bloodlines have truly terrible abilities. Either they give you things no straight sorcerer will ever want to use (claws on draconic) or things which you don't need by the time you get it (anything that gives wings at 15 when you can probably fly from 6/7 and fly all day from 10/11).
Sadly, with Ghost Rager, Barbarians have a pretty good touch AC. Fortunately, getting an order that is against your nature would usually give the character a 2nd will save with a +4 bonus... Or the Barbarian could use Clear Mind and/or Eater of Magic, getting up to 4 different saving throws!
I might have to alternate with True Strike castings so sadly the result is the same...:)
Hmm, can you apply the True Strike bonus to the CMB check for Pilfering Hand given its an Int+CL roll? If so I might just disarm you instead! I might even quicken the True Strike to do it in a round.
The trouble is actually getting to make those full attacks. Today I played Curse of the Riven Sky. We had a fighter, cavalier, two paladins and my sorcerer. They were largely well built and competent.
One encounter took about two hours to complete because, even though they all ended up being able to fly, the enemy largely spent its time hundreds of feet in the air and a flight speed of 60 doesn't really cut it outside. The fighter never actually managed to reach melee with the thing. He spent much of the fight readying to throw a tanglefoot bag if it came in range (it never did) until I could finally get round to casting fly on him. Two of them only managed to get in range because I dimension doored them there.
Another encounter saw them constantly frustrated by an enemy capable of greater teleporting at will and of flying. Again it took them multiple rounds of doing next to nothing to get into range.
This sort of situation is increasingly common as you go up in levels.
The first encounter was the Linnorm. It died but took both Paladins with it. The second was the Ice Devil. Both spent most of each fight blind but that still didn't help the martials that much.
In the realms of OP'ness I am always surprised to see gunslingers, alchemists or paladins receive much if any mention. Sure they can do a decent amount of single target damage but a competent full caster can and will shut down an entire encounter worth of enemies.
Maybe its because blinding or dazing or nauseating everything on the board doesn't look as impressive or sexy as obliterating something with a bunch of damage rolls but if you are concerned about impact on encounters then full casters have all of the tricks.
It was also fun when I was Dominated (sorta...still not sure what the hell that effect was, and I rolled a 1 on it) and the order was "Kill or incapacitate your teammates by any means necessary". Turns out, I'm basically immune to the party spellcasters via Eater of Magic and Strength Surge getting me out of the Sorcerer's favored Icy Prison spell.
Were this to happen I would deeply regret enervating you to death while flying out of reach. I would still do it you understand but I would feel bad afterwards...:)
Blessing of Fervour is basically Haste, it is going up on round 1 and the Barbarian is liable to delay if needed. If they don't then they are likely to be out of formation anyway, no-one more than 30' away is an annoying limitation. Delay Poison lasts 1 hour/level and should be up well in advance. The Barbarian is in any event last in line for it. Air Bubble isn't a combat spell and the Barbarian can hold his breath for ages anyway. Communal Resist is a valid option but frustrating to use after combat starts as people tend to be spread out. Most serious elemental damage allows a save though which again the barbarian is likely to make.
I think you know my general view on in combat healing. Having trouble accessing Heal could be risky at level 11+ but again barbarian non AC defences are high enough that their expected damage should be quite a bit lower than others.
If you need an emergency evac teleport then the group need to gather on you so the barbarian can drop out of rage on the round they head to you.
Superstition still requires you to be raging. It doesn't say so in the power description but does under the general rage power section:
A barbarian gains the benefits of rage powers only while raging, and some of these powers require the barbarian to take an action first.
edit: Totally ninjaed. I wouldn't kick yourself over it, Superstition is badly worded. It specifically calls out part of the effect as only applying while raging which leads to an inference that the save bonus is always on.