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I have to say that the Liberty's Edge boons seem terribly out of character for the faction. Calling in a group of pig herders to help you battle terrible monstrosities from beyond time and space which want to eat your face in a 5-9 or 7-11 sounds completely suicidal. Frankly calling them in to fight some less than competent Aspis Agents in a 1-5 or 3-7 sounds suicidal.
It strikes me as deeply out of character for the faction to make use of them like this.
As per the guide Potions and Scrolls are assumed to be created by wizards, clerics or druids using the lowest spell level between them. If the spell isn't on any of their lists then you use the lowest level from any other class which can cast the spell. It is spelled out in the Guide on page 24.
Life Bubble cant be a potion as it is a level 4 Druid spell. Good Hope would be legal as it is level 3 and only on the bard list but would affect only you. Scrolls of Life Bubble are similarly spell level 4, caster level 7.
The Perception skill chart provides for a DC25 perception check to detect a burrowing creature beneath you. I would probably apply that and let anyone who passed act in the surprise round which I would treat as beginning after it burst out.
Jayson MF Kip wrote:
Teleport away with treasure/kill hostages/destroy documents/otherwise escape with their lives and/or plans intact.
Alternatively they take that time to buff themselves and teleport behind the group to take them by surprise. One of my bugbears about PFS play is people assuming that the environment doesn't react to their presence or that opposition sitting right next door will totally ignore the screams and wails of the dying and just follow their scripted tactics. If experienced murder hobo's are brutalising your outer guards you are going to take action to protect yourself.
How I've always done things regarding save or sucks ending combat in 2 rounds, or the PCs winning initiative and doing the same with pure damage, is the following:
I ran The Waking Rune tonight and the end boss died before he got to act, the perils of losing initiative to a gunslinger and an archer ranger. We had a bit of a chat about what could have happened and wrapped things up.
The thing is it should still be more than zero. There are like, zero cities lit by continual flame, when it could be roughly every city
I am about to run From Sea to Shore, the ruin the party explores is lit by globes imprisoning wisps, they don't need no stinking continual flame spells, those things are only good for a few thousand years anyway.
If you are using magical lineage anyway then it can be quickened.
Shamans also get Flame Strike. It hits a fairly small area and has a 15d6 damage cap but half of the damage is "divine power" and therefore ignores any form of resistance allowing you to skip any messing about with elemental spell.
Its not just useless against demons, its pretty bad against anything with electricity resistance 10 and useless against resistance 20. The dazing rider only applies if the spell actually deals damage. While 3d6 is likely to give you a number better than 10 sometimes it wont and then you are screwed. Resistance 20 is available from a caster level 7 resist energy, trivial at the level you are looking at.
Baneful Polymorph isn't a good choice. It has a very short range and lots of things are immune to it including all undead, constructs and elementals. Also it targets fortitude which is regularly an enemies highest save.
I quite like chain lightning for mass dazing. It has long range, selectively targets without the need for further metamagic, hits lots of enemies even if they are spread out, deals decent damage and is available to you from the Heavens spirit.
Same here, I do this a lot, if someone tells me they have a particular bonus I will sometimes ask them to break down the numbers for me quickly. It keeps people honest and makes it clear I expect people to know how their own characters work.
At Gencon last year my Bonekeep 3 GM asked for the last filled in chronicle, about the lightest touch of light touch audits and something that I thought was completely reasonable. One player didn't have anything at all with him and ended up leaving the table taking his dad with him. Another hadn't done any of his paperwork for about 4 levels and needed to do it there and then.
It nearly meant the entire table didn't go off but fortunately we got two late entrants who joined us.
Most of the stuff I run nowadays is online which removes much of the time pressure but I rarely audit character sheets and hardly ever chronicles. Auditing chronicles for online games is deeply impractical and I certainly don't have the time or inclination to wade through dozens of electronic files to make sure someone added up their gold or fame right.
I routinely ask people to flag up anything odd or unusual about their character that I may need to check up in advance or which might slow down the game. I will occasionally ask for a character sheet, especially in higher tier games, just so I know what sort of stuff I will be dealing with.
It does occasionally catch errors, such as the person who didn't realise that Divine Protection wasn't PFS legal but the whole PFS system largely relies on the honour system in any event.
My group found the toy and realised what it had been used for but didn't bother taking it with them. When they met the basilisk they didn't immediately attack and tried to go around but it isn't really possible. Gaze attacks are pretty much automatic within 30' so there isn't space to go around given where it starts. There is also very little indication that making it friendly is even possible barring it appearing rather docile.
Getting friendly with it seems like a very difficult task, both to even know it is possible but then being willing to try while forced to make multiple fortitude saves. My group ended up killing him just to get him out of the way.
I think the issue with them is that there are so damn many of the things. I thought about stopping them once the PC's hit the number required to convince the guardian.
Except that you don't determine the level of the pregen until you determine the subtier.
If this were true you might expect to find it somewhere in the Guide to play but it doesn't say anything like this.
I'm really hoping that there really isn't a distinction between "not allowed" and "frowned upon" in this context. There might not be an actual prohibition against it, but I can't see any legitimate reason why it should happen.
Except that it happens all of the time with actual real characters.
Personally I read level appropriate as being legal for the level range of the scenario. The APL calculation section of the guide makes no reference to excluding pregens from the calculation. You calculate the APL for the group, which would include the player of the pregen.
Having said that in the unusual situation of, say, 4 level 1's and 1 pregen I would probably check if people were happy with the idea of seating a level 4 pregen. If not I would probably ask the pregen player to use a level 1 or find a different table given the likely impact on the rest of the groups experience.
You could turn the tables on them and make him something which has access to 9th level wizard spells but which is not a wizard or sorcerer. This is a flame oracle I put together a while ago. Adding the Spirit Guide archetype gives him access to a range of wizard spells including some high level blast effects like prismatic spray, sunburst and meteor swarm. He isn't really all that concerned about damage, if he was there would be a level of crossblooded sorcerer, but he happily chucks out dazing evocations all day long.
With Miracle he gets to engage in all of the high level caster tricks, creating simulacra, personal demi planes, binding outsiders like succubi etc. With paragon surge he can access any of the many utility spells in the cleric list when needed (although each choice is fixed for the day).
Defence wise his saves are decent, his AC is OK although will jump significantly when he uses form of flame (-2 size, +3 dex, +4 natural, put the shield down first then pick it back up after the change, it lasts 18 hours) along with increased HP (+4 con) and various immunities (bleed, crits, sneak attack) and a little DR. He also has a range of defensive spells at hand.
Offensively he should always be flying, fickle winds to shut down archers and then throw whatever direct damage or disabling effect you want. He can chuck quickened flame strike every round with a level 5 spell slot for a free 15d6 on top of dazing empowered flame strike or whatever your preferred blast might be. Dazing people inside blade barriers is a bit mean. He can also happily hide inside areas of deeper darkness as he has the see in darkness quality from the Heavens Spirit. If you want to be very mean you can surge for heighten spell to negate any heightened continual flames they may have.
Larger scale destruction is accomplished with earthquake and control weather.
Male half-elf (Varisian) oracle (spirit guide) 18 LE Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +15; Senses darkvision 90 ft., see in darkness; Perception +26
Oracle (Spirit Guide) Spells Known (CL 18th; concentration +33)
. . 9th (4/day)—fiery body[APG], meteor swarm (DC 33), miracle (DC 33)
. . 8th (6/day)—mass cure critical wounds, incendiary cloud (DC 30), frightful aspect, stormbolts[APG] (DC 32), earthquake, sunburst (DC 32)
. . 7th (8/day)—blasphemy (DC 31), control weather, mass cure serious wounds, dictum (DC 31), fire storm (DC 31), prismatic spray, repulsion (DC 29), reverse gravity, summon monster VII
. . 6th (8/day)—banishment (DC 28), blade barrier (DC 30), chain lightning (DC 30), mass cure moderate wounds, greater dispel magic, fire seeds, heal, wind walk
. . 5th (8/day)—commune, mass cure light wounds, fickle winds[UM], flame strike (DC 31), greater forbid action[UM] (DC 27), overland flight, plane shift (DC 27), summon monster V, telekinesis, true seeing
. . 4th (9/day)—blessing of fervor[APG] (DC 26), cure critical wounds, death ward, dimensional anchor, discern lies, freedom of movement, order's wrath (DC 28), rainbow pattern (DC 26), wall of fire
. . 3rd (9/day)—blindness/deafness (DC 25), borrow fortune[APG], cure serious wounds, daylight, deeper darkness, fireball (DC 27), invisibility purge, magic circle against evil, magic circle against good
. . 2nd (9/day)—cure moderate wounds, delay poison, grace[APG], hold person (DC 24), hypnotic pattern (DC 24), levitate, minor image (DC 24), mirror image, pilfering hand[UC], remove paralysis, resist energy, silence (DC 23)
. . 1st (9/day)—ant haul, burning hands (DC 25), color spray (DC 23), cure light wounds, detect evil, murderous command[UM] (DC 23), remove fear, remove sickness[UM] (DC 23), sanctuary (DC 23), shield of faith
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, detect poison, ghost sound (DC 22), guidance, light, mage hand, purify food and drink (DC 22), scrivener's chant, spark[APG] (DC 24), stabilize
. . Mystery Flame
Feats Craft Wondrous Item, Dazing Spell[APG], Divine Protection[ACG], Empower Spell, Greater Spell Focus (evocation), Noble Scion Of War[ISWG], Quicken Spell, Spell Focus (evocation), Spell Perfection (Flame Strike)[APG]
Traits irrepressible, magical lineage (flame strike)
Skills Bluff +35, Diplomacy +38, Disguise +15, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (arcana) +25, Knowledge (planes) +25, Knowledge (religion) +25, Perception +26, Sense Motive +22, Spellcraft +25, Use Magic Device +18; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Auran, Common, Elven, Ignan, Infernal, Varisian
SQ bonded spirit, bonded spirit hex (heaven's leap), elf blood, no breath, oracle's curse (haunted), revelations (form of flame, gaze of flames), spirit (), stardust
Gear wand of cure light wounds, +5 mithral light steel quickdraw shield, mulberry pentacle ioun stone, amulet of natural armor +5, belt of physical might +6 (Dex, Con), bracers of armor +8, circlet of persuasion, cloak of resistance +5, eyes of the eagle, handy haversack, headband of mental superiority +6, ring of freedom of movement, ring of protection +5, tome of clear thought +1, tome of leadership and influence +2, 37 gp, 8 cp
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
I am not sure this is true. You can cast spells while submerged underwater with a concentration check despite being unable to breathe.
After a year of searching and risking life and limb, the agents of the Pathfinder Society have discovered the resting place of the Runelord of Sloth, who has been sequestered from the world at large for 10,000 years awaiting the proper time for his return. Thanks to the efforts of the sinister cult of Lissala, that time is now. In a desperate attempt to defeat this ancient evil once and for all, the Decemvirate sends its best agents, armed with relics found throughout ancient Thassilon, to foil the cult's last-ditch efforts to usher in a new era of tyranny and strife. Will the party succeed in preventing Krune's return to Golarion, or will the Pathfinder Society serve simply as a speed-bump in the runelord's path to domination over the entire region?
Warhorn sign up is HERE. This is the Season 4 finale scenario, you have been warned.
Warhorn sign up is HERE
1. What class is your primary character?
2. What duties do you consider your responsibility within the group?
As you might be able to tell from above my tendency is to play full casters. I like classes which bring lots of options to the table. The nature of those options vary by class. Mt first (and now retired) character was a razmirian priest sorcerer and by level 9 he had an enormous collection of divine scrolls he could activate using his own spell slots. I tend to prefer spontaneous casters and they tend to be half elves so paragon surge provides more options.
My current Lunar Oracle is focused around buffing his animal companion, dropping area control such as Burst of Radiance or confusion inducing Mass Inflict as well as buffs. Blessing of Fervour and Battle Cry are common first actions and Communal Resist Energy shut down multiple encounters in Emerald Spire.
The Bloatmage is my main flirtation with prepared casting and I went Bloatmage purely for the ability to avoid using up spells. I hate the idea of needing some key spell but having used it up. My arcanist has quick study and a spellbook full of utility stuff she can switch to as situations crop up.
All of my characters also carry a stash of scrolls to cover emergency situations.
3. What gold-based resources are you willing to expend for other characters in the group without the possibility of repayment?
Depends on the level. At low level I don't mind kicking out a wand charge or two but by about level 3 I expect people to be packing their own. If there is a condition floating around which I cannot clear myself I will pitch in to help clear it provided the person hasn't been particularly obnoxious or idiotic in how they went about acquiring it. My -2 razmirian sorcerer forked out over 15000gp on divine scrolls including restoration and raise dead (with the component costs) so he can freely raise and restore people. When he hits 16th he will probably do the same with Resurrection.
4. What do you expect other members of your PFS session to do to support you?
Understand how their class works, understand the basics of the combat rules, understand what roles their character is able to fill and then take on those roles.
5. Do you expect them to expend gold-based resources on your behalf?
No, although it is nice when they do.
6. Do you expect them to risk their character's lives on your behalf? If so, do you take this into consideration before you get yourself into dangerous situations?
Yes although combined with that is an expectation that I know my combat role and am able to see to my own defence. As I tend to play casters they tend to hang out at the back and they always have a defensive option available to them, even if its just a few scrolls of mirror image or invisibility. Combat is a dangerous place and we all take risks once initiative is rolled.
This is something I regularly do when I have lower tier characters in a higher sub tier. It's always worth reminding them at the start of the risk they take. If they choose to go ahead and rush into danger then they have at least been warned.
chris manning wrote:
Does this mean I get retroactively turned to stone and have to pay for a break enchantment? :)
The interaction hadn't even occurred to me although Urko could conceivably end up doing this a lot if I pick up Borrow Fortune as a spell known as he has enough battle cries to use multiples per battle if he has to in one day.
Edit: Actually it was the blindness which I ended up failing in any event even after 3 goes but its still worth clarifying.
Full casters may have fewer tricks than they had in 3.5 simply due to the lack of material but the idea that martial characters bring more to the table than them is laughable.
I hope, due to the scenario destroying effect of certain summoners, that all existing summoners are required to rebuild to the new version on the date that unchained becomes sanctioned for PFS. Yes, I know that will force people to buy a book they otherwise wouldn't or retire characters but I truly don't care. The PDF is only $10.
What are you going to do about all of the actual full casters who are quite capable of doing the same and more to most scenarios?
It looks right although Resiliency is a terrible Revelation which will rarely do anything for you at all. I would recommend either picking up War Sight or Skill at Arms. If the latter then you can afford to sacrifice some dexterity to boost probably your strength.
On skills I would take diplomacy over acrobatics. Diplomacy is the second most common skill rolled in PFS, its a class skill for you and you are naturally good at it with a Charisma focus. Acrobatics however is a skill you will suck at as you lack much dex and ACP's will reduce you even further. Opposition CMD scales faster than your skill bonus and from level 4 onwards you can just have Grace is you need to move about.
I do think you need to decide if you want to focus more strongly on casting or melee. If casting then your Charisma wants to be at least 16 pre racial and you can lose some strength If melee you want to go the opposite way and put the half elf bonus into it. A 14 Cha will be fine at level 1 if you want to be melee primary, you will only need a +2 charisma headband by level 10 to be able to access all your spells for the entirety of your PFS career.
You are currently missing a curse and your level 0 and 1 spells. I would also consider an archetype. If sticking to melee dual cursed will be very strong, battle has plenty of useful revelations for you and dual cursed gives you more. If favouring caster then spirit guide is excellent as it gives you access to a wide range of new spells.
Constructs are not a big issue as they are still subject to your spells. Burst of Radiance will happily blind them and they tend to have terrible Reflex saves. Golems with magic immunity are an issue as the Cleric list has almost no spells with SR: no. For those you can try trapping them with Walls, Minor Illusion if you have Haunted, Summons to fight them or wands/scrolls of the standard anti golem Wizard spells, Grease, Glitterdust, Create Pit, Aqueous Orb.
I wonder what the melee vs. archery effectiveness graph would look like across 20 levels.
It depends on which you are comparing it to. Level 1 pouncing summoners, level 4 pouncing druids, level 10 pouncing barbarians or straight fighter, rogue or monk types?
nicholas storm wrote:
Not sure why boon companion would do nothing. The animal companion is sorcerer level -3. Is there some rule you know of that I don't?
For some reason I thought they got a full level AC but they don't. Must have been confusing them with Lunar Oracle. In which case definitely boon companion.
In my experience this is entirely true in combat from about level 3 onwards for prepared casters and from 4th for spontaneous. Certainly the impact of limited spells known for sorcerers is overstated on these boards, especially given the existence of extra spells known FCB, pages of spell knowledge, mnemonic vestments etc. You very rarely need the perfect spell during combat.
Take an easy example. Disable Construct is a great example of a very niche spell. Most of the time you wont need it but if you do face golems or constructs its amazing. Rendering them helpless against their worst save is vey strong and there is no ongoing save every round. However, Glitterdust will do much the same thing, a blind golem is largely a harmless golem and their chance to save is still negligible. Glitterdust is a level lower and has a far wider application.
As far as Quick Study goes I wouldn't consider it a combat exploit. Its an out of combat one where you find yourself facing an obstacle you need a way around where you don't have an easy on hand option. Its pretty important for arcanists because their number of prepared spells is pretty low and most will be filled with your basic defensive and offensive stuff.
Sinking character build points into charisma isn't really worth it when the only thing it affects is school understanding. You could just pick up a Rod of Elemental Spell instead if it is really an issue. Other than that you are hurting a bit for an initiative boosting feat and Quick Study is an exploit I personally would want by level 5. It offers an amazing level of utility.
On the initiative front you can help yourself with the Heightened Awareness spell for an extra +4 in combats which matter.
GM Lamplighter wrote:
I have always assumed that you do not change the sub tier or recalculate APL. I had a similar situation happen last week in The Segang Expedition. During the hunt one of the PC's died to a bite crit. They weren't raised and the rest of the group pushed on without them knowing they were still playing the same sub tier but with 1 character down.
Personally I wouldn't seat a player where you knew they would not be staying for the whole game. Most of what I run is online and occasionally you get someone who books themselves into two games in a row with no wriggle room or even a deliberate overlap. I don't mind the first but yhe latter group will rarely get an invite back from me.
Cap. Darling wrote:
The advantage of arcanist over the true prepared casters( I am not gonna dignifi the CC cleric in the blast thread) is that they only ose one Spell prepared pr level to have the option of blasting with every slot.
Prepared casters can do the same thing with Preferred Spell although it forces you to use up 2 feats.
joe kirner wrote:
Yes but that seems to assume that the PC's have him on side. Regardless it doesn't address the issue of what is supposed to happen if they fail to get him on side more generally. Does he just order them out of the ruins after the Aspis are dealt with, does he attack them if they wont go, does he just go back to pretending to be a statue. We are left completely in the dark.
Cloak of Resistance would seem the obvious thing you are lacking. Also Eyes of the Eagle, Handy Haversack, Initiative boosting Ioun Stone, Saves boosting Ioun Stone and maybe some decent armour for yourself.
It's just bad design. For most groups, they don't add any extra challenge. For 1 in 20, they're a dead PC. And it's almost completely random.
It isn't just at low levels either. Last week I killed a level 5 PC in a 3-7 with a 69 damage great axe crit. Admittedly it came after a 28 damage normal swing but even without that 69 damage in one blow will kill most level 5 characters. A level 5 14 con d10HD character only has 44hp, even with FCB for HP and toughness they only get to 54hp and would still have been dead.
Really greataxes are just very swingy.
I wouldn't bother with Flag Bearer, its a relatively small bonus and it takes up a hand. Given you are likely to want a shield for the extra AC it will probably just get in the way.
I would strongly consider Sacred Summons. At level 7 you will have standard action hell hounds and lemures. At level 9 you add in Bearded Devils and Kytons. They aren't great but it is extra bodies on the table and they benefit from your evangelist buffing. Summons don't care about SR or DC's so you lower wisdom doesn't matter either.
I am not entirely convinced that it is worth investing heavily in initiative for this character. While that is normally a given for control orientated casters you really want the enemy to be right up in your face. The 30' burst radius on channel isn't that big an area and there may well be a lot of benefit for you going much later in the round once enemies have closed in.