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andreww's page

FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 3,296 posts (3,300 including aliases). 3 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 5 Pathfinder Society characters. 1 alias.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
There seems to be a general opinion on this board that defeating opponents by any methods other than hit point attrition is overpowered and must be prevented at all costs.

Not really.

Mostly it is because dazing can be attached to spells targeting any save which means you dramatically increase the chances of success, way beyond what you might otherwise expect.

It is also one of the most debilitating conditions in the game because it directly affects the action economy. It is significantly better than stun as whole swathes of enemies (undead, oozes, plants, elementals, constructs) are not immune to it.

It can also be attached to spells which do not allow SR or which persist over multiple rounds or can be moved vastly increasing their power. Dazing Aqueous Orb is utterly lethal to huge swathes of the battlefield, dazing Wall of Fire spells death to anyone caught in it who doesn't have high levels of fire resistance and a single feat can get around that issue.


Doomn wrote:

Meanwhile, in the lobby of the Grand Lodge:

<LFG><Tootsweet>LF3M Blackros Matrimony, Min Diplo +12, No PreGens, link char sheet

<general><Bardtarded>HAHAHA I SAW SUM1 W/ A L4 ROGUE WAT A NOOB

<LFG><DrFunkenstein>LFG Aas Life Oracle ChannSpecced, any 7-11, NO HARD MOAD PLZ

<general><GetAGrippli>What do I spend PP on?

<trade><KitKatsune>Why is there even a trade channel, isn't crafting banned in PFS?

<LFG><MysticSurge>LF2Melee subtier 4-5, 20 DPR or GTFO

<general><GetAGrippli>What do I spend PP on?

<trade><Sexysaurus>@kitkatsune, people trade PFS boons in trade


<trade><KitKatsune>WTB PFS BOON

<LFG><AsmodeusExMachina>LF2M for Hard Mode Kyle Baird speedrun. Chat specs for invite

<general><GetAGrippli>Anyone? Plz?

We need someone to create a Gear Score addon so we can assess whether or not each character has made optimal spending choices or not. Also all character sheets should be held electronically by Paizo and be available for public inspection so people can make sure their PuG's aren't filled with no hopers and losers who don't scour the latest guides like caffeine fuelled teenagers living on 3 hours sleep a night.


David_Bross wrote:
I had someone walk in on the roper, start buffing to attack it, then try to attack it in the 7-8 subtier. They lost on initiative and it didn't exactly end well for them. The rest of the party walked in 3 rounds later and chose to talk to it instead.

That's, well, erm, yes, condolences to whoever they were.

Dhjika wrote:
I have found a significant number of GMs that rule dazing is a mind-effecting condition - and so dazing doesn't work on a lot of critters on many tables.

I wonder what such GM's do about the Anyklosaurus. Its on the SMV list and is one of the best summons of its level so I normally expect to see them with any character interested in summoning from level 9 onwards.


Kyle Baird wrote:

For the love of all gods, roleplay the roper and don't have it attack automatically at high-tier. It's a great opportunity to have flashes from each character's past show up on the walls of his little dome.

(I use a small metal mixing bowl to cover the roper up)

Absolutely. The set up for that thing is amazingly good and leads to all sorts of interesting possibilities. I plan on asking my players for some scenes from their life to date before we play and have it talk about them while murdering them horribly.

I am running these online so no bowl required. Now I just have to decide how to accent and present the ropers voice.


Silbeg wrote:
andreww wrote:
I loved The Sealed Gate, it was one of my best Gencon experiences just behind Vengeance and then only because that was being run by Walter. The mechanics part of Gate are significantly more interesting.

Aww... and I thought it was the Sunday slot of The Cairn of Shadows!

[dice=will save not to cry]1d20+3

Dammit, I loved that one as well....would you accept joint second?

Really, with one notable exception all of my Gencon games were excellent. It would be unfair to pick favourites.


In an attempt to get away from the Technology argument I wonder if anyone has an answer to this question which I posted earlier in the thread?

andreww wrote:

On a separate point with Samsarans now being available in PFS are we likely to get an answer to whether or not Mystic Past Life allows you to grab early entry spells.

For example, lets say that I am a Samsaran Wizard choosing Mystic Past Life. Can I pick the Summoner spell list and grab Haste at spell level 2, Dimension Door at level 3, Teleport at 4 etc.

Zhangar wrote:
Undone wrote:
the secret fire wrote:
Zhangar wrote:
Do you think making the dazing component both (a) explicitly a mind-affecting condition and (b) requiring that a separate will save be failed would make a sufficient difference?

This would drastically reduce its potency at higher levels, to the point that it would be largely worthless past about 11th-12th level against everything except for big dumbs like dinosaurs.

The real reason dazing spell cannot really be balanced is because the devs seem to have completely overlooked the dazed condition when building their bestiaries.

Another simple solution is to rule that FoM negates daze and stun.
That's a solution that benefits PCs far more than it benefits the poor monsters (who usually won't have access to freedom of movement). =P

Pretty much exactly this. FoM simply isn't a common enough buff.

I might be inclined to change it to stunning things for a single round. That removes its ability to affect a wide range of opponents while keeping many affected and stops it being a virtual auto win while the rest of the group wail on the now useless opponent. I would also restrict it to only working on instantaneous spells and possibly only instantaneous evocation spells. That removes stuff like wall of fire as a virtual auto win if the save is failed. Conjuration also doesn't need to be able to add daze on top of everything else.

Personally I would also ban all metamagic reducing traits or other abilities and remove metamagic rods of quicken, dazing or persistent spell and the staff of the master necromancer.

the secret fire wrote:
Zhangar wrote:
Do you think making the dazing component both (a) explicitly a mind-affecting condition and (b) requiring that a separate will save be failed would make a sufficient difference?

This would drastically reduce its potency at higher levels, to the point that it would be largely worthless past about 11th-12th level against everything except for big dumbs like dinosaurs.

The real reason dazing spell cannot really be balanced is because the devs seem to have completely overlooked the dazed condition when building their bestiaries.

That really isn't true at all. Preventing it working on things immune to mind affecting takes out undead, plants, oozes, constructs and vermin. Of those only Undead are actually any sort of threat to any vaguely prepared caster. The rest rarely have much in the way of special attacks that matter and generally have one or more cripplingly bad save. Golems are a prime example being rendered virtually useless by anything from Create Pit to Glitterdust to Aqueous Orb.

At higher levels your dangerous opposition tends to consist of fiends, dragons, undead and classed NPC opponents or monsters. Dazing works just fine on all of them except undead.


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pauljathome wrote:
I hate the Sealed Gate as much as anybody (my review stated that I think it is the worst PFS scenario I've ever played) but I think that this is a massive overreaction.

I loved The Sealed Gate, it was one of my best Gencon experiences just behind Vengeance and then only because that was being run by Walter. The mechanics part of Gate are significantly more interesting.

I suppose tastes for scenarios vary but my general view is that once you reach the 7-11 bracket you have to expect the combat side of things to be harder and come prepared accordingly. I certainly wouldn't want to bring a pregen to it but a properly prepared group in tier should be able to handle it.


Dave Baker wrote:

I just ran this scenario this past weekend, and I would suggest that it's a difference that makes no difference. Run as written.With the action economy that the PCs have, they won't last long.

IMHO, they are not the challenge of the scenario, if you know what I mean.

Let them have their fun. Then you can have yours and watch them sweat! Don't forget about the difficult terrain.

The cave encounter is really weird. It looks like it can either be utterly lethal, especially at the high tier, or a cake walk. The cave isn't very big and the monsters don't seem to be capable of leaving it so anyone who does a little scouting could destroy them with area effect spells without getting anywhere near. Anyone dropping in though is facing a world of hurt. Given the narrowness of the opening it is going to be difficult to manage that scouting without getting close enough to be attacked.

OK, moving on to Part 2 which I have been setting up today. I have a couple of questions about encounter 1.

The encounter is with either 4 normal or greater barghests. Greater Barghests are listed as having Mass Enlarge as an SLA but no such spell exists. There is a mass enlarge person but obviously they wouldn't normally be a legal target. I am guessing this is another "NPC's don't have to follow the rules"?

Having said that given how small the room is I am not sure how the hell you are supposed to fit four large monsters in there with a party, nevermind upping them to huge.


OK, then I shall run them as written with rage cycling and all.

Dhjika wrote:
I have found a significant number of GMs that rule dazing is a mind-effecting condition - and so dazing doesn't work on a lot of critters on many tables.

That might make for an interesting houserule but it still leaves who swathes of foes who are horribly vulnerable to it. Dragons, Giants and many other creatures tend to have a single terrible save which is very easily exploited by the ability to add dazing to any spell that deals damage regardless of save type.

If he hates Dazing Spell wait till he has to play up against a SoS witch or an Oracle of Heavens Color Spray build -.-

The only advantage these two have is that they come on line sooner. At the mid to higher levels Dazing is vastly better as it can easily target numerous enemies, can be attached to spells which don't allow SR and can be attached to spells which affect magic immune things like Golems.

Nefreet wrote:
The Dazing build is a one-trick pony, just like the others. Any one-trick pony is annoying. But they have their weaknesses that should not be discounted. Usually it's doing anything that doesn't involve blasting. Try taking them through a dinner party or a wedding, or just trying to capture somebody alive. Their metamagic rod won't be able to help them much there.

Nothing about doing this requires you to be a one trick pony, it requires you to take Dazing Spell or buy a Rod and then feats you were likely to take anyway, Spell Focus and/or Spell Penetration probably. None of those discount from your ability to participate on the skill side of the game and as we are talking about full casters you also have an enormous range of spells to help out with that.

Describing this as a one trick pony is inaccurate and bizarre.

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Nefreet wrote:

Now you're left with Arcane Casters.

Take away the spontaneous casters, the non-blasters, and the non-minmaxers.

I am not sure why you would take out the spontaneous casters, they can all use the metamagoc rod and the feat itself is extremely powerful at 10-11, earlier if you use traits. You can be dropping dazing fireball/aqueous orb as early as level 7 with the right traits.

You also need to include divine casters, it is an excellent way to add control to a range of Oracles, Clerics or Druids.

Dazing is also not limited to Evocation spells. There are a range of conjuration, transmutation and necromantic spells which deal damage and which can target a range of different saves.

Really the strength of Dazing Spell is the ability to attack it to any of the three saves vastly increasing your chances of getting it to land and the fact that you can attach it to various conjurations which ignore SR.

Dazing Aqueous Orb is hilariously powerful, Dazing Acid Arrow will pretty much entirely shut down any Golem you will ever encounter(although so will acid pit generally), Dazing Ice Spears is pinpoint accurate control against multiple opponents.

DrDeth wrote:
Yes, the fighters are well known to be the most dangerous.

To you maybe, to most of the rest of us it remains laughably untrue to an almost comical degree.


I am due to be running this four part series over the next few months and I have a couple of questions. I have fully prepped part 1 so far and wondered if the following issues had been addressed anywhere:

Stay out Terry and Chris:
1. As has happened with a few other modules we have undead barbarians with rage enabled stat blocks. Have people simply been using the stats provided or amending them to remove the morale bonuses? These ones also have rage powers which grant further morale bonuses. Stat blocks are not provided for these, do we assume they apply? I am inclined towards yes currently.

2. Linked to that as undead barbarians they are immune to fatigue. This allows them unlimited rage cycling for powerful blow and strength surge. I wonder if that was anticipated by the author.

3. An ordinary NPC human barbarian has a CR of their level -1. Here we have skeletal champion (CR2) barbarian 6 coming out as CR5 and skeletal champion barbarian 9 coming out as CR6! This seems to be a bit of a mangling of the role and monster advancement provisions especially where they are gaining the benefit of their barbarian abilities.

So, how have people who have run the module dealt with these issues or have you just ran it as written and ignored them? A search turned up a single thread on the undead morale issue in the module with no replies and the product discussion and review pages don't mention it.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

During the sled chase, I took out three of the four enemy sleds by casting liberating command on the lead dog of the lead sled. Came out to a +12 Escape Artist check, against what the GM decided would be a DC 25 to escape the harness. He made it, and from there things just sort of...

*puts on shades*


That sled chase has to be one of the most fun encounters I've ever played. I used create pit and murderous command (targeting one of the sled dogs) to great effect.

We played this recently online and the chase ended up being rather anticlimactic. Create Pit and Aqueous Orb pretty much guaranteed a very easy getaway.

The Remhoraz could have been dangerous but two archers meant it never actually got to act.


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Andrew Christian wrote:
andreww wrote:

Oh well, guess I continue to avoid season 6.

How many times do people have to say that Season 6 is not going to be 100% tech based. That there will just be a handful of scenarios that are tech based, and we saw a large portion of those with the first 3 scenarios?

Sure, and that would be fine if any scenario which involved tech came with a big sign which read "this scenario forces you to engage with the s+~+ty technology rules" but they dont so you are left either rolling the dice or reading through the reviews beforehand which is less than ideal.


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I have to wonder why you are imposing a feat tax on skill orientated characters in season six. I can know about utterly obscure information with other knowledge skills such as the dietary practices of pre earthfall Lisaallan cultists but it needs a feat to know about something which has been around and an active part of sections of Golarion for over 5000 years. Oh well, guess I continue to avoid season 6.

On a separate point with Samsarans now being available in PFS are we likely to get an answer to whether or not Mystic Past Life allows you to grab early entry spells.

For example, lets say that I am a Samsaran Wizard choosing MPL. Can I pick the Summoner spell list and grab Haste at spell level 2, Dimension Door at level 3, Teleport at 4 etc.

davidvs wrote:

How does this character contribute during combat aside from being a quick, high-save skill monkey?

It looks to me like a 3/4 BAB melee class without martial weapon proficiency and slightly late Cleric spells as a vain attempt to patch up those deficiencies.

Melee is one of the least effective things you can do as a Cleric/Oracle, even the Reach Cleric only really bothers to use a Long Spear to make the occasional opportunity attack. The straight Oracle caster gets access to a whole host of useful Cleric control spells. Off the top of my head you are looking at:

Level 1: Command, Murderous Command, Forbid Action, lll Omen (from dual-cursed)
Level 2: Burst of Radiance, Sound Burst
Level 3: Blindness, Bestow Curse, Dispel Magic
Level 4: Blessing of Fervour, Holy Smite
Level 5: Plane Shift, Greater Command, Greater Forbid Action

Pick up Dazing spell and you are adding one of the most powerful control effects to any direct damage. Take the Blackened Curse and apply Dazing to stuff like Flaming Sphere or Wall of Fire.

Even if you do want to go down the melee route it isn't hard to pick up the more useful buff spells, Divine Favour, Blessing of Fervour, Righteous Might etc. You only really need Power Attack and a Longspear.

Depending on which Mystery you take that will also give you a bunch of other options. The Lunar and Nature Oracle can both get a full progression animal companion. The inflict spell using Cleric also gets to turn Mass Cause Inflict Wounds into one of the most powerful control spells around by adding a DC10+half level +cha mod will save r be confused for 5 rounds. Its a simple SU ability and not marked as mind affecting and so also effects plants, oozes etc.

Finally the Spirit Guide archetype offers amazing versatility to Oracles. You have access to 10 different spirits, each of which provides you with access to a different spell list and different hexes. Add in Paragon Surge and you can access the rest of your own spell list as needed.

Some Other Guy wrote:
andreww wrote:
Some Other Guy wrote:
You can't get double bonuses to the saves. Somewhere, I can't remember where, it was stated that you can't get a stat bonus twice to the same thing.
This is highly debateable. There is a James Jacobs quote about double stacking modifiers to CMB I think which was looking at the interaction of Fury's Fall and something else. He doesnt touch other areas and in any event always stresses that he is not a rules guy. As things stand you can pretty much expect table variation.
Well, I would be incredibly surprised if a GM allowed this. having all of your saves at +20 or more by level...8 is absurd.

You can get pretty close to that with an Oracle without double dipping, even without stat minmaxing. By level 8, with a non dumping 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8 stat array you can be looking at:

Charisma 24: 16 base +2racial +2level ups +4stat boost
Constitution 16: 14 base +2 stat booster
Wisom 14: 14 base

You pick up Divine Protection and Craft Wondrous Items, make your own Cloak of Resistance, stat boosting headband and belt and cracked pale green ioun stone and you end up with:

Fortitude: +17 (+2base +4con +3 cloak +1ioun stone +7divine protection)
Reflex: +16 (+2base +7charisma +3cloak +1ioun stone +3 circlet of command)
Will: +19 (+6 base +2wisdom +3cloak +1ioun stone +7divine protection)

And that is without factoring in any save boosting traits or really pushing things with stats. You could just as easily start with a 7 strength and dexterity and grab an 18 starting Charsima.

K177Y C47 wrote:
Well a 1 level paladin dip is actually still useful due to Smite. When Fighting something evil you then Cha AGAIN xD

I wouldnt give up a caster level for a 1/day bonus to AC against a single creature. I tend to build my Oracles as casters first and rarely do they ever make any form of physical attack so the extra attack and damage is also fairly irrelevant.


Ascalaphus wrote:
If the blast were to potentially cause a minor but permanent (until cured) condition that the suits could prevent, that would've been nicer. Or a bit of damage to singe neutral characters; not enough to kill a healthy one but enough to scare one that's taken a few blows.

I believe that the blast can outright kill neutral Clerics of Evil deities as they have an evil aura and are therefore not subject to the reduced caster level effect. With a CL of 20 any Cleric of an evil deity not wearing the suit will die if they fail the save. If they don the suit hastily level 8-9 characters will only suffer temporary effects. With a suit put on normally any character of level 5+ will have no chance of death.

That seems like a pretty harsh effect and the evil item removal seems like a deliberate attempt to remove stuff which was made available in season 4.

Some Other Guy wrote:
You can't get double bonuses to the saves. Somewhere, I can't remember where, it was stated that you can't get a stat bonus twice to the same thing.

This is highly debateable. There is a James Jacobs quote about double stacking modifiers to CMB I think which was looking at the interaction of Fury's Fall and something else. He doesnt touch other areas and in any event always stresses that he is not a rules guy. As things stand you can pretty much expect table variation.

Nowadays it is pretty much all about the Lore/Nature/Lunar Oracle. No need for any Paladin levels or anything else really. You want:

Level 1: Noble Scion of War Feat - use Charisma for Initiative instead of Dexterity

Level 1: Sidestep Secret or equivalent revelation - use Charisma for AC and Reflex saves in place of Dexterity

Level 1: Irrepressible Trait - use Charisma instead of Wisdom for saves against mind affecting effects

Level 3: Lore Keeper revelation allowing you to make Knowledge checks using Charisma instead of Intelligence. Nature and Lunar Oracles can gain the same effect using the Spirit Guide archetype and choosing the Benefit of Wisdom Hex (the archetype changes the benefit to Charisma).

Level 5: Divine Protection Feat - add Charisma modifier to all saves

Make sure at some point to purchase a Circlet of Command. It adds +3 to all Charisma Checks (not just skills) which will arguably include Initiative and Reflex saves.

Also be aware that many GM's will nix the idea of Divine Protection stacking with Sidestep Secret for Reflex saves. It isnt a big deal as your Reflex save will still be enormous.

leo1925 wrote:
Bestow grace of the champion isn't the issue (high level spell, lawful good spell, lawful good recepient, extremely short duration), bestow grace can be a problem.

My Lore Oracle loves his wand of bestow grace. Best investment ever.

Liam Warner wrote:

Or as mentioned you've charged up to a monk, magus or illusioned fighter.

"Die. Squishy caster."
"Guess again." Badonkadonkadonk.

Sure, that might happen, but it doesnt change the principle that you are generally better off trying to target the spellcasters first. All it means is that your information allowing you to identify the best target is faulty.

So, I have been looking at this spell recently as a great way to provide a group with protection from archers or enemy spellcasters using targetted spells. For information the spell description says:


Tiny Hut

School evocation [force]; Level bard 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a small crystal bead)
Range 20 ft.
Effect 20-ft.-radius sphere centered on your location
Duration 2 hours/level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no


You create an unmoving, opaque sphere of force of any color you desire around yourself. Half the sphere projects above the ground, and the lower hemisphere passes through the ground. As many as nine other Medium creatures can fit into the field with you; they can freely pass into and out of the hut without harming it. However, if you remove yourself from the hut, the spell ends.

The temperature inside the hut is 70° F if the exterior temperature is between 0° and 100° F. An exterior temperature below 0° or above 100° lowers or raises the interior temperature on a 1-degree-for-1 basis. The hut also provides protection against the elements, such as rain, dust, and sandstorms. The hut withstands any wind of less than hurricane force, but a hurricane (75+ mph wind speed) or greater force destroys it.

The interior of the hut is a hemisphere. You can illuminate it dimly upon command or extinguish the light as desired. Although the force field is opaque from the outside, it is transparent from within. Missiles, weapons, and most spell effects can pass through the hut without affecting it, although the occupants cannot be seen from outside the hut (they have total concealment).

So, you create a 20' radius opaque dome centered on your location. It appears to be immobile given the reference to the spell ending if you remove yourself from it. A few questions arise though:

1. It is a 20' radius spell but specifies that only you and 9 other medium creatures fit inside. That creates an immediate conflict. A 20' radius effect contains enough space for 44 medium creatures to stand in without squeezing into each others spaces.

2. If you are hard limited to a total of 10 creatures does that mean if I have 10 people inside no-one else is able to enter? If I bring along a large enough party can you effectively turn the spell into an impenetrable bastion against enemy entry. What about if after creating the area we summon a few ranged attack using monsters to fill our allotted 10 spaces, are melee based opponents just screwed?

3. The spell ends if you remove yourself from it. Obviously that would include a voluntary choice to move outside but what if you are subjected to forced movement or a spell which pushes you out of the area? Does that cause the spell to end?


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Winks Blastum wrote:

No guarantee the player still wouldn't charge even with burning skeletons. He's 1st level and won't have the knowledge there'd be an aura. If I attack someone with a burning sword, the flame damage only happens if the sword hits. Maybe the skeletons are the same way, unless he hits a knowledge check - any assumption is just metagaming.

Retconning should be saved for serious goofs, not a party of 1st levels where minor mistakes were made.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have read on here in a very long time. The idea that it is metagaming to think "oh look, that skeleton is surrounded by flames, standing next to it may mean I get burned" is ridculous. Making a rational decision based on observed events in the game does not equate to metagaming.

Most of us learn that fire is hot at a very young age.


Dhjika wrote:
David_Bross wrote:
Channel the Gift, the cleric's answer to an oracle's ability to cast Paragon Surge to cast remove X.
But you have to be a cleric of Nethys to use it, correct?

Given it is on the Bard, Druid, Ranger, Wizard and Witch list no.

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Tamec wrote:
As, unless you are running bonekeep GMs are not allowed to kill PCs. I've been told this goes against the "don't be a jerk" clause. I also say this as one who has 4 perma kills in PFS.

I am quite certain that this is not true.

The OP however does appear to be someone I wouldn't want anywhere near a game I was involved with.

A Lunar Oracle with the spirit guide archetype allowing you to run knowledge skills with Charisma using the Wandering Lore Spirit when needed. You can easily dump strength, wisdom, int and dexterity. You run AC, Reflex Saves and Initiative off charisma with the revelation and noble scion. Take Divine Protection to make your saves unmissable bar a 1. Use your animal companion for melee and make use of your maximised charisma for the highest DC control spells around. Grab Touch of the Moon at level 7 and make sure you chose to spontaneously inflict and become a bad touch confusion causing minster.


The Morphling wrote:

Thanks for the insight into that, guys. I'm inclined to say that the class design is better, but I think it's a bit weaker - though the mentioned changes are very nice.

Now, if only we could get Arcanist to not require an Int/Cha split too...

The Arcanist has virtually no use for Cha, you can easily dump it if you want and not suffer for it at all.


Disk Elemental wrote:

I'm sure most of you know this, but I'll mention it for any new people:

Clear Spindle Ioun Stone + Wayfinder = Permanent protection from control spells (that originate from evil targets).

Note that this does not protect from all compulsion effects, only those which exercise ongoing control. So it will save you from Dominate for example but not Confusion.


Doh, the two of you post so much in the same threads that you have become largely interchangeable in my mind...!


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Walter Sheppard wrote:

I see that recently Bob posted his opinions on a serious issue: player overshadowment. Since then he has been picked apart for it and forced to back up his position as the thread communally slammed him for sharing them. But isn't that the point of this thread? Posting what annoys you? So what if what annoys Bob doesn't annoy you--it's his opinion and not yours.

Cut Bob some slack.

I think the problem that Bob experienced is that the examples he provided largely failed to match up with the behaviour he was complaining about. "Hey, you might want to watch out I plan to fireball that area on my go" is not an example of someone trying to play someone else's character.

Jiggy gave a far better example of the sort of unacceptable behaviour no-one wants to see, an experienced player trying to foist a character choice onto a newbie, and oddly enough everyone seems to agree it was unacceptable.

Now Jiggy's Nosig's example was a fairly clear example of someone being a dick and Bob's looked to me examples of payers reasonably communicating intent to one another given you can talk openly mid fight. What might actually make for useful productive discussion is where between those two points the line of unreasonable actually falls.


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Majuba wrote:

Good list Disk Elemental, although I disagree with two of the last three in the PC list.

Really not sarcastic.

Most obnoxious? SLA-as-prereqs.

Why would you object to making otherwise terrible PrC's into vaguely useful ones that might actually b worth taking?


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David Montgomery wrote:
Dual-Cursed Oracles using a ability called Misfortune on their allies in hopes that they'll roll higher?

Turning an allies failed crit confirmation roll into a success certainly means someone is having a bad day.

Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:
Mathius wrote:

Fickle Winds: Ricochet shot, fight inside foes space

Its a cylinder, so get above or below them.

Yes it is a cylinder, why do you assume it is open at the top or bottom?

Also Alter Winds can only ever give immunity if the wind strength is already severe and it is immobile.

Flawed wrote:
Immediate actions don't usually provoke.

There isn't anything in the text of immediate actions to suggest this.


Auto-success for low-level spells perhaps. All spells, no. At least not until significantly higher level than 8. Reducing an enemy who would otherwise cast cloudkill or black tentacles to casting magic missile is still worth it even if it isn't as obvious as making the caster lose the spell entirely.

8th level caster, 20 casting stat (with headband). Base +13 concentration.

To cast a 4th level spell, he's looking at DC 23 (15 + 2x spell level) and needs to roll a 10. A 55% chance of success is better than nothing but it's not terribly good odds either. Certainly not automatic.

Even if the caster has combat casting and a concentration trait, it's only actually automatic for 1st and 2nd level spells; there's still a 15% chance of failure for 4th level spells. And combat casting is 1. a lousy feat and 2. can be offset by Disruptive, driving the chance of failure back up.

What sort of caster has a 20 primary stat at level 8? Even if you start with an 18 post racial you have 2 level ups bringing you to 20. A +4 Headband costs you 8000gp if you craft it yourself giving you 24. If you start with a 20 which is likely if relying on save based spells you have a 26. That gives you a +16 concentration.

Spellguard Bracers can give you +2 for 2500gp, Elven Gloves can give you +5 for 3750gp. +23 Concentration lets you auto pass defensive casting for level 4 spells without touching your feats or traits.


HeroLab is not a valid rules source. It is also not a valid source allowing you to access materials outside of the core assumption. You must still own anything you want to use out of additional resources and if a rules query comes up you should be looking at the primary source, either the book or the PRD. Having said that HeroLab is still extremely useful and is often far more accurate than doing stuff by hand so it is a useful tool, as long as you remember what it is there for.

You can use print outs of PDF's to establish ownership provided they show your watermarked email address. Be aware, some pdf's have banners which obscure it, Cheliax Empire of Devils for example does this. What you cannot use is a photocopy of pages from a physical book as that does not establish ownership.

I tend to store copies of all of my books on my dropbox account which I can access via my phone or tablet if I need to as well as keeping a folder of print outs just in case.


A Chelish outpost deep inside the anarchic orc-controlled Hold of Belkzen has gone silent after strange fires were seen burning in the skies above. You have been sent north to investigate the disappearance and find a lost tomb long rumoured to exist beneath the outpost's timber tower. When you arrive and find the place choked with monsters and hideous plant creatures from beyond the stars, your mission of exploration quickly turns to one of survival.

Please sign up to play at the Warhorn site.

Note that parts 2-4 are also listed on the site. People are free to sign up to any parts they want but priority for parts 2-4 will be given to players who play earlier parts.

Jeff W wrote:
Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

Blade Adept is for Prestige Classes plz.

But since you'd stop advancing your exploits and your blade by prestiging...

Unless you meant it should have been a prestige class not an archetype, in which case I agree.

It's been said that the blades scales off caster level in that archetype which is why people have been calling it a pre EK class.
Is there a way to get 3rd level arcane spell SLA in PFS besides Scryer Wizard, though? If you have to enter EK with arcanist 6/fighter 1 it's not worth it... you might as well just stick with arcanist instead of nerfing yourself.

The base Aasimar does it with Daylight but if you haven't started one yet you will need a boon.

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I love the Lore Mystery, but then I love skill monkey characters and being able to demolish any out of combat knowledge check from early on is golden. Being able to dump Dex is also helpful for a Cha primary class.

I am very much coming round to consider Lunar as a strong caster focused Oracle. Touch of the Moon is an insanely powerful way of turning the otherwise terrible Inflict spells into potent control. Confused is a very dangerous condition and regardless of the level of spell slot you apply it with the DC is always top notch, based on your level and Cha mod rather than the spell level. It turns Mass Inflict Light Wounds into incredible non language dependant, non mind affecting control which allows no ongoing saves.

Heavens obviously has a strong niche as the Colour Spray King. Battle is strong if you want to go down the weapon wielder route and Time is undervalued by many people.

Personally I dont rate Life very highly as Channel is generally crap even if you do get a lot of them as an Oracle. There is one exception, Life Oracles with Liberation Channel feat.


Will Comprehend Languages still decipher Numerian writings?

Buy some potions of Bestow Grace to help boost your saves.

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