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I played multiple slots at a con this weekend with a variety of GM's in the UK I haven't played much with before and it was fine. I expect this is one very much where you will find regional and table variation.
A Pathfinder expedition has uncovered hitherto unknown levels in the Red Redoubt, a millennium-old siege fortress created by the machine-mage Karamoss. A source of Numerian technology in its own backyard piques the Society’s interest, yet informants in the redoubt speak of an aggressive contingent deep below that aims to reactivate Karamoss’s powerful forges. Can the PCs salvage the fortress’s treasure while also preventing a catastrophe that could crush Absalom?
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I only have time to prepare one tier so will be choosing a group appropriately.
Pizza Lord wrote:
There is no definitive answer because the rules lack clarity. Toppling Spell specifies that you get to make a trip attempt whenever the target takes damage from your spell. Magic Missile has multiple instances of damage so it is entirely possible to read it as allowing multiple attempts. You could also treat the spell as one batch of damage and only allow one attempt.
Essentially you simply have to accept that tables will vary. In a home game check with your GM. In PFS check with your GM as well, I have generally ruled it is one check per missile regardless of how many targets there are, others do differently.
Jeff Merola wrote:
Sure, although the post strongly suggested no levels in MT had yet been taken.
Pretty much, the SLA's you have no longer qualify you for entry into MT. If you still want to do it you are looking at Oracle4/Sorcerer4/MT which is basically awful from a mechanical point of view.
Your better option is to probably retrain out of either Oracle or Sorcerer and continue on as a single classed character.
Yep, the SLA thing was removed some time ago but even if it had been around now most of the options are simply not available in Core. If you want to go MT then you are stuck with the valley of suck that is Wiz3/Cleric3 or, even worse, Sorcerer4/Cleric3 without the Empyreal option to use the same casting stat.
Note that Spirit Guide explicitly switches any effects based on Wisdom to Charisma. So, for example, if you took the Benefit of Wisdom Hex all knowledge skills would become Cha based for you rather than Wis. This would also mean the Circlet of Command would apply to them.
1. Yes, it allows access to arcane spells provided the Oracle has an Intelligence over 10. Not everything is about spell DC's. Not all Spirit Guides are going to be equally useful to every Oracle.
Actually Arcane Enlightenment does nothing for Oracles. It adds spells to your list of spells which you can prepare, not to your list of spells known. As such Oracles gain nothing from it.
On the plus side there are still loads of useful options you can pick with Spirit Guide.
Incorporeal miss chance is from 3.x, PF uses half damage.
Not quite, things which don't do damage also have a 50% chance of failing against incorporeal creatures. This would include things like a Command Undead spell.
Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:
Thanks very much for that. I do have a couple of follow on questions/comments.
1. If the water is clear then the undead at the bottom have nowhere to hide making it unlikely anyone will be swimming down to investigate the treasure. I stuck them in mud and weeds when I ran it but it would have gone very differently if they were visible.
2. Ironwhip is a great villain but he is complex. He has a number of subtly powerful abilities which it would have been helpful to detail in his stat block. For example his tactics have him using Shard Explosion but unless you are pretty thorough in your prep it is very easy to miss that this is a swift action which he can only use a limited number of times (2 or 3).
3. Ironwhip also has earthglide which is an ability which may cause a degree of disagreement/confusion as the rules are not very strong on how it works. I tend to run it as if he were a swimming creature so he generally gets cover or improved cover depending on how far underground he is. Its also very interesting from a tactical point of view allowing him to retreat and buff if need be.
4. There is a small error in Ironwhips statblock, his CMD should be 3(low tier) or 4 (high tier) higher than listed as Shield of Faith adds to it.
5. Its a small thing but high tier Ironwhip casts Magic Vestment on his shield but not his armour, he could easily add another 2 points of AC doing so.
6. A point for people running this, he has Wall of Stone as a 4th level spell from his mystery which adds lots of tactical options. I dropped one while the PC's were deciding what to do outside (as he can see them with Crystal Sight) to remove the chance of charging. It also clumped people up nicely for repeat flame strikes. Adding a Blade Barrier also held off several PC's.
I played Bonekeep 3 at Gencon last year and we had a Goblin barbarian with us. He bit things a lot but got bogged down in tentacles after the end boss suppressed the freedom of movement I dropped on him.
There's a general rule in effect that items that specifically harm undead ignore incorporeal miss chances when used.
Where is this, I cannot find it anywhere? I see the Incorporeal(ex) ability has a specific exception for Channel Energy and Holy Water but I cant find any general rule.
Yes but then you can do that with any form with the ability to speak and undertake somatic components. The only gear that melds is stuff which is on you at the time. It isn't difficult to drop a pouch of other key pieces of equipment and just carry them around on your new body. Dragons, Elementals and certain Magical Beasts should all be able to provide forms capable of spellcasting.
Andrew Hoskins wrote:
1) Have him attempt to get around the PCs and just get to Uliyara for the first two rounds.
My only really issue with this is that the location makes this basically impossible especially given high tier Vargrimm has no ranks in Acrobatics.
Uliyara will try to save herself as much as possible, including taking withdraw actions to get away. This was what was intended, that you'd have a couple rounds of just trying to save Uliyara before he fully turns his attention to the PCs.
This is what happened in the second game. She fled helped by another PC who couldn't really harm him in case she ran into another wolf. The rest of the group fought him and spent lots of time falling down and getting back up as the cleric channelled and he battered people. Eventually he had downed the three melee and was making his way to find her. He killed the cleric en route who was trying to get away but provoked and fell unconscious next to him then taking aura damage. It came down to Haltani having a cure light cast holding the charge and readying to attack him as he closed on her. He had 1hp left by this point so any hit would kill him. She missed and he one rounded her with a single claw attack and constrict.
A simple retrieval mission takes an unexpected turn when the Pathfinder Society learns a valuable treasure was under its nose—within the curious demiplane connected to the Hao Jin Tapestry. The descendants of the original owners have changed in the centuries since their sequestration, though, and initial attempts to parley have ended in failure. Can the PCs discover what became of this lost people and secure the relic they guard?
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Natural Spell should be you only choice at level 5, nothing else beats it for a druid. The level 1 and 2 lists have no decent reptile or dinosaur options so you wont be getting much, if anything out of Superior Summoning until level 7 when you can do multiple constrictor snakes or crocodiles.
You could just go Preferred Spell and memorise whatever you want and spontaneously change stuff to Fireball. You have to taken Heighten but you were probably taking 3 metammagic for Spell Perfection anyway so it may as well be one of them.
Spell Specialisation/Greater is also an option but doesn't come online until 10th.
Stonelord Paladin is awesome. We've had a couple in my area for PFS that have been very effective.
Stonelord is an awful archetype. You give up basically the strongest abilities the Paladin has for stuff which is much worse. Smite Evil for something you were likely to do anyway, divine grace for a pathetically small amount of natural armour and DR, all of your mercies for something you can get with an armour special quality amongst others.
Fair point, I assumed it had an S component.
I have always held Haversacks and similar extra dimensional storage spaces as not having a supply of air so if I were running any stingchucks stored in them would die fairly quickly. Also the 9lb weight is likely to dissuade most people from carrying many of them as well as the likely impact on most social skill checks of carrying around the hollowed out heads of humanoid creatures.
Why do people think these things are legal in PFS? we keep going down this path...
The SRD lists them as being in adventurers armoury. Additional Resources says everything in the 2nd printing is legal with a few exceptions. The Stingchuck isn't one of those exceptions so if its in the second printing its legal.
I have now run this twice, the second run was Core only just playing up with the 4 player adjustment. Again my group fought the border guards and so skipped Halvor. Each time I have played up Haltani's nervousness about going with the Ulfen and the PC's went for protecting her. This time they had a Gorumite who was just happy to start a fight.
This group failed all bar one check with Haltani, there weren't many social or knowledge skills amongst them. They did OK in Dalun due to one of them having Profession: merchant. They also sought out some information about what the Baroness liked and I gave them a small circumstance bonus for it which made all the difference.
Rigrory could have been an issue but his breath weapon got a 4 round recharge and he never got to use it again. Given most of the group were level 2 or 3 (with 1 4) that could have been fatal.
Then they got to Vargrim. If you are running for a group which is forced to play up due to APL then I strongly recommend considering skipping this encounter even if you have time. He is utterly lethal even with a surprise round and the staggered condition on round 1. My group had 2 clerics, level 2 and 4 and no arcane caster. They were largely melee. They put a bit of damage on him before he got his first full normal round. Unable to reach Haltani he was left full attacking the PC's with Haste because he could see her.
3 attacks, each with grab and constrict left two of the PC's unconscious after one round. He then proceeded to tear them apart as they desperately tried to retrieve the situation and get Haltani away. I did make one mistake in that I didn't spot his aura should have been the lower tier one but two characters had resist cold 10 so it made little difference. I skipped grabbing and constricting PC's who he knocked unconscious about 3 times as I knew it would mean death for them. In the end he had killed one PC and most of the others unconscious at one time or another before killing Haltani.
Magical Lineage takes care of Extend. Use a Staff of the Master and a metamagic rod to take care of the other two.
You will of course have to grow a third arm to do this. It's probably not much of a problem but it is something I find a lot of people forget or skim over, kind of like clerics trying to juggle holy symbols, shields and weapons.
That is a PFS specific rule, not a general Pathfinder rule.
What bugs me a bit in the waterfall encounter, is how the special touch works: if in spoiler-Form, is an attack roll necessary, or does it automatically succeed? The wording is somewhat unclear to me.
I read it as anyone who is affected by the spoiler form is touched automatically although it can also be used offensively with a touch attack.
I assume you mean this:
The beautiful pool captured by Hao Jin remained peaceful and undisturbed for centuries. However, since the arrival of the Ironwhip duergar, a cruel mockery has come to replace this tranquility. The waterfall is 30 feetoff of the map to the south
I read that as meaning the waterfall was 30' to the south of the B1 Map, not the A map.
They'll appreciate a couple items on that Chronicle Sheet.
They may well do.
They managed to finish the mod but left with 0pp. It was going fine until they met the dwarf. Several roster changes meant they ended up with 2 clerics, a barbarian, fighter and rogue. They fought the guards but calm emotions kept all but the Captain out of the fight along with 2 PC's. He eventually fled, diving off the ship and swimming away. A lack of skills meant Haltani wasn't terribly impressed with their stories but they got to Dalun without incident.
The mercantile deals were fine as the Fighter was an Exchange member with Profession: Merchant. The PC's knew they had to speak to the Baroness and tried to find out how they might impress her. I decided she liked roses and that her garden was full of ice sculpted rose bushes so they procured some and I gave them a small circumstance bonus which made all the difference in getting her onside.
They found the town easily and dealt with the wolf without much problem although they got very lucky on the breath recharge at 4 rounds. Then they met the dwarf and things went very downhill. They were APL3 with only one character in tier so playing up with the 4 player adjustment. He was pretty much able to down any level 2 with a single attack and he proceeded to tear them apart. They were lucky that 2 of them had a resist up so the aura wasn't doing much (doubly lucky as I missed the 4 player change to it).
He killed one PC (since retconned when the aura mistake was spotted) and then managed to kill Haltani, the ice making it impossible for the melee to keep up with him. With Haltani dead they couldn't make the check for the last group and were "escorted" back to town which effectively lost all of their prestige.
Overall I thoroughly enjoyed running it a second time.
1- a) Moving from area A to B1 would take only a few minutes, depending on how long the party talks to the eidolon.
I am not sure what you are basing this on, I can find literally nothing which tells us how far the mountain is from the village. The scenario simply says that the mountain rises "in one direction".
b) Moving from area B1 to B2 would take time based on the party's Climb speeds.
Likewise I don't think this is true either, the river ford is not directly next to the entrance. Again the description simply says that the mountain "rises overhead".
I may well be missing something so if I have please let me know. I enjoyed running this a lot and so may be looking to run it again.
So I ran this tonight and generally enjoyed it quite a lot, I would rate it as one of the more interesting season 6 adventures. However, it has a lot going on in it, I would not recommend trying to run this cold, and there are also some gaps which could really have done with being filled. I am going to keep this fairly brief so as not to spoil anything for people tempted to peek prior to it being run at Paizocon.
OK, there really needs to be a bit more information around some of the environmental effects and travelling.
1. We don't have any information on how deep the river is in encounter 2 or how concealed the creatures are at the bottom of it. There is a suggestion that the pool is clear but it isn't certain from the map which bit is the pool. Also Control Water here adds some really interesting options.
2. No distance or time is given for the trip between the initial village and the mountain. This is pretty important for issues of spell durations. I set it at about a five hour hike but that was a complete guess.
3. Similarly no information is given about the amount of time it takes to move between locations once you get inside the fortress. It might have been nice if the check to get around affected timings, as it stood I just set it at one hour between each location.
4. We also have little information about the environment within, especially for the encounter areas. We don't know ceiling height or light levels. I generally went with a very open ceiling at the forge and a much lower one in the sanctum. I had dim or no light throughout.
5. The check to get about could have been much more interesting if it included more than simple damage for failure. It could easily have influenced things like the amount of warning enemies got, available buffs or number of mooks. As it stands it is largely a wand tax with a chance at some descriptive flourish on the GM's part. Unfortunately there is very little description of the interior to work with. It also wasn't entirely clear if the damage for failure came in one chunk or separate healable amounts.
6. I would repeat that this is not one to run without good prep. The river and sanctum encounters have the potential to be very complex. The final boss, especially on high tier, has a number of abilities that you want to make sure you are familiar with. He taxed my group right to the limit.
7. The end bosses spite move is one I was very surprised to see in a 5-9. If it happens you are looking at either permanent character loss or an extremely crippling financial cost. I don't mind things like that in 7-11 but in a 5-9 it is too brutal.
8. If anyone planning to run this wants my notes drop me a PM and I will send them across. I will add them to the prep site post paizocon
True story, this weekend I am running From Under Ice as a core game with 2 barbarians, 2 rangers and a fighter. They are APL3 so playing up with the 4 player adjustment. I am very curious to see what happens.
Ross Byers wrote:
Silence does more than mess up spellcasters or allow sneaking - it also shuts down any command-word magic item, which is most of them.
Silence also has a 1 round casting time which I find that people forget about a lot.
well in the low tier his wand is pretty useless as the combat happens in such a large space that the 30ft range of the spell wont manage to hit anyone until they can close the distance to melee or worse a ranged party can simply pick him off at range where he can do nothing.
I am guessing your GM missed the web which arguably blocks line of sight at the start.
OK, I have this issue coming up in a game shortly and I wanted to check and see what people thought.
Combat training says:
Combat Training (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat by spending 3 weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal's previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Many horses and riding dogs are trained in this way.
The player intends to use this to allow him to ride his snake into combat as a mount.
My question is this, do people think that the spell turns an AC which could not normally be used as a mount into one that can?
Hmm, let me add a couple of favourites for the Oracle, Arcanist and Sorcerer.
The Oracle has a real conflict over what might be the best of the available archetypes. While dual-cursed is very strong, mostly because of how effective Misfortune is, the increase in Revelations wont be of much benefit to many Mysteries and most of them only have a handful of decent revelations. It also conflicts with Spirit Guide from the ACG which adds an amazing mass of versatility giving you access to dozens of new spells which you can swop about day to day. It will also expand as new Shaman spirits are released.
The Sorcerer jas access to the Razmiran Priest archetype which is sort of so-so until you hit level 9 and then it just becomes bonkers good. You can activate divine scrolls, wands and staves using your own spell slots. That adds enormously to your versatility and pretty much removes the sorcerer limitation of spells known. For a small amount of gold I can now access pretty much every level spell going. You can also access numerous spells well before they might be available by plundering the Ranger, Paladin and Inquisitor spell lists. Holy Sword as a level 5 spell, yes please.
The Arcanist gets one of the strongest archetypes out there with Occultist. You give up access to a couple of exploits and in return get the Summoner summon monster SLA fuelled by your arcane pool. It is hard to underestimate the utility of have minute/level duration summons for scouting and other tasks and standard action summoning makes it actually viable to use in combat.
Talon Stormwarden wrote:
I played my arcanist in this scenario and had a great time, despite not being particularly suited to any of the tests of skill (except for the first, which I knocked out of the park with a roll of 35 iirc).
I would say that managing to get Glitterdust to stick on Aramaya was pretty much crucial to succeeding at the 6th task. Without that you would have been down 2 trial points and would have missed out on the 12 point boon.
Curse you and your glitterdust shenanigans!
*shakes tiny fist of impotent rage*
Not yet but I think I shall find out on Sunday.
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Worse, the last one is a diviner with nothing but school spells prepped for the most part and she just stands there waiting.
What I found worse was that she, and the rest of her colleagues, were outfoxed by a single classed fighter with barely a knowledge skill to his name and an Int of 10. Really he just isn't a credible mastermind of the plot. I got over it by assuming he was just the thug being used by the real masterminds who haven't properly revealed themselves yet.
I have run for three different songbirds of doom so far. The first nearly fled the end of Beacon Below as the party came very close to TPK, he spent a large section of the fight lying unconcious on the ground. The second was so memorable I cannot even remember what scenario it was in. The third was recently in test of Tar Kuata. He was unconcious after the first round in the fight on the spire. Likewise in the mine. He finally managed to get to do his thing against the boss.
The ability to shut down a single opponent is hardly game breaking, casters have been doing it to multiple enemies for years but I wouldnt be surprised to see it go the same way as Crane Wing.
• Two sets of (complimentary) powers and bonus spells is also way cool
As has already been pointed out the lack of spells known and the extra level delay is the big killer for Crossblooded. However, this part is also wrong. While you do gain both Arcana you do not gain the bloodline powers and spells of both bloodlines. You must pick between them which can be helpful to avoid some of the dross in bloodlines but it is not as effective as you suggest.
On traits there are better ones for mages to be taking than concentration boosters, magical lineage, initiative boosts etc. Likewise Combat Casting is a fairly awful feat and wont help with lingering pain as it only affects defensive casting and casting while grappled. The Spellguard Bracers and Gloves of Elvenking also don't work on this although the Tunic of Careful Casting would.
The Kensai's level 13 ability includes always acting during the surprise round.
There has to be a surprise round for you to be able to act in one. Two combatants who come upon each other and who are both aware of each other at the same time would not provoke a surprise round.
So they do, I never noticed that before. However, they cost the same as the Page of Spell Knowledge but have to be wielded (which Pages don't) so I have to wonder why you would want to use them if you didn't have to?