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FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 4,657 posts (4,671 including aliases). 11 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 16 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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With CL23 your best bet is probably the Solar although it is more than capable of seeking retribution if you have it do something it dislikes. The Elohim is a handy 22HD mythic outsider.

It isn't free

Activating the robe is not an action, but casting the spell otherwise works as normal, including casting time, providing components or foci, and so on. Using a mnemonic vestment’s properties does not consume the written source.


Cirithiel wrote:
I will not even discuss the invisible flying murder machines. I am aware that my GM went "easy" on us.

The tactics have them go easy on you, also their greater invisibility has a very short duration.


My druid picked up 5 scrolls of gust of wind with PP to have some options. Now he has flamestrike.

Charisma to reflex is available from Sidestep Secret or Prophetic Armour in the Lore and Lunar mysteries. You lose Charisma to CMD but shouldn't really care.

I would go straight Oracle all the way. Powerful casting is better than pissing about trying to melee people to death and various Oracle options give Charisma to saves.

Note, it is unclear whether or not you are subject to the max dex limit when you replace Dex with Cha to AC, expect table variation.

Entryhazard wrote:
Except "text trumps table" applies

While this was a thing in 3.x I have struggled to find an explicit source saying so for PF.


I am not seeing how this is an issue. The only way you can purchase a scroll, potion or wand of a non core spell in core is if it appears on a chronicle sheet.

The fact that you might have encountered such a spell and copied it into your spellbook doesn't matter. If it isn't on the chronicle it isn't open for general purchase.

The core rules seem pretty clear about this.


A Wand of Burning Hands is doing 1d4x1.5 damage with a DC11 reflex save for half. A Wand of Sound Burst is doing 1d8x1.5 damage with a DC13 fortitude save to avoid the stun.

Neither is a particularly good idea against most mid to high CR swarms. A CR9 Tick Swarm has 120hp. Even a simple CR4 Leech Swarm has 39hp.

For core it is pretty much bring a caster or be prepared to run away.


Blackros Matrimony is one of my favourite 3-7's.


Paz wrote:
For information, it's not an immediate response: I emailed CS about this a week ago and haven't heard back yet.

I emailed CS and got access to mine within three days.

They must like me more than you...:)

Tomos wrote:
Also note that the +2 bonus on AC and Saving throws is untyped for Greater Stunning Barrier.

Seems dubious, Greater Barrier acts as the normal spell which provides resistance and deflection bonuses.


No, that's pretty much how it goes. Summon tactics are generally terrible. Some people take the view that SLA's are always a standard action, I am not one of them.

I have managed to use summon once I think, in The Segang Expedition. The group dithered so long outside the final area that the critter managed to get its summon off and they ended up fighting two of them. It wasn't pretty.


It will be called out in the module text as optional. As I recall the optional for this is the underground one while you pursue Jax.


You get to chat to

the Demon Lord Abaxus in a level of Emerald Spire. You can even end up on his abyssal level if you are (un)fortunate which happened to my groups Paladin when I ran it. He got plane shifted again later on in that level.


Arnvior wrote:
Sadly, its rather difficult to get a group of 13+ level characters together much less get them to 20.

You could always try and sort out a group online where availability is generally a bit easier to organise. I've managed to play and run quite a bit of 12+ games that way including Eyes of the Ten, Academy of Secrets, Tomb of the Iron Medusa, The Moonscar and plenty more.

The PFS Google Group is a good starting point.


All of my characters are part of the same extended family, the Chelaxian mercantile family of Gallonica. It helps me keep them all straight and it gives them all a reason to be part of the society. The family sends its members off to train with the society, to gain experience of the world and build contacts for their mercantile empire.

Characters include both those born into the family and trusted members adopted into the ranks. The first to hit level 20 shall achieve the mantle of Head of Household then I might have to start a new group.


LazarX wrote:
So you're bashing core because it has classes that have 9th level spells, when 12th level restricting you to 6th level spells at most is the retirement threshold?

I haven't bashed anything and casters happily dominate the game at almost any level if play if people know what they are doing. Being restricted to mostly sub level 12 play makes little difference.

I understand that you hate full spellcasters. Please remember that is your position, not a universal stand.

You understand nothing. Mostly I play sorcerers and oracles when I get a chance to play rather than run.


LazarX wrote:
Allerum wrote:
Thanks! Examining the traits available to Core players makes me kind of sad though. There don't even seem to get racial, which are really fun ones.
The whole point of Core is to strip the game down to the basics.. It's more challenging because you don't get game changing traits like Magical Lineage and real powerful race ones that people take heritage feats to snag.

Magical Lineage is available in core. The idea that Core is some sort of balance patch is laughable given it contains most of the full level 9 casters.


Mulgar wrote:
So, hey, if you gotta "win" an rpg, go ahead. We got a player who will do all the talking, even talking over other people. And when the gm says okay roll diplomacy he asks, who's got the highest skill rank. Is that cheating?

It may not be cheating but it wont fly at my table. If you want to roll then you had best have actually been in the conversation. If one player is making all the noise they are rolling regardless of what anyone else's skill might be.


I would highly recommend School of Spirits. Ironbound Schism is a little rough in places and could really have done with a longer edit/polishing process but is a decent scenario.

School is however very good and thoroughly entertained my players although it does have some small mapping issues.

Cracked magenta ioun stone, +2 competence bonus to one skill, change it from day to day.


I would say not. Also it is incredibly difficult to stealth in any circumstances, losing cover or concealment is going to screw you over and the majority of enemies are liable to have darkvision. Also those without darkvision are going to need some form of light source to work with.

The PvP rule talks about not being able to kill other PC's. Mildly inconveniencing people doesn't even come close.




Neither alchemists nor investigators cast spells so I doubt it works.


Ascalaphus wrote:
Dead by zombie crit? I can see it happening with a heavy pick crit (X4, ouch!) from the clerics, but the zombies don't hit unusually hard do they?

As i recall it was an Ogre zombie, but that may have been Among the Dead.


Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Round three was when we lost our rogue to a bane full-attack, then took her out.

My group avoided fighting her then got cut to pieces by the quicklings.

You also entirely wrong about the Amnesiac archetype. You give up 1 or 2 spells known for potential complete access to your entire spell list. I wouldnt recommend trying to use amnesiac slots inside combat but it doesnt prevent any of the rest of your spells known from working.

Synaptic Shock should be rated Gold, it is the best of the Major Amplifications. It basically guarantees that any of your save or suck spells cause the enemy to suck. They either make the save and are screwed or fail the save and are still screwed.

This one ability basically represents potential complete multi round lockdown. It is incredibly brutal.


When I played this we lost a low level bard to a zombie crit, full health to dead in a single blow. Ironically I had completely forgotten about the scroll of command undead which was sitting in my backpack.

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HWalsh wrote:

Don't speak for all of us.

My martial can move 30 (well 20, he wears heavy armor) feet and 9 out of 10 times get off two attacks per round.

Just because yours can't doesn't mean it can't be done.

** spoiler omitted **

Why not, it is something you seem to do repeatedly as you try to present yourself as the voice of the old school. Newsflash youngster, you aren't, plenty of us started playing in the 70's and early 80's and plenty of us still see the problems of martial/caster disparity.

Rycaut wrote:
again I would have to disagree with folks who keep insisting that a "rogue" has to suck and drain the party resources. At least in PFS play the rogues I have seen (especially at high tiers - 7-11 which is as high as most PFS goes) are frequently among the most valuable members of a party - if you value the characters who one shot BBEG's every fight with great regularity (and minimal party resources).

I have run and played a lot of PFS, including a lot of higher tier stuff and plenty of 12+ modules. I have yet to see a rogue do much of this at all.

I have seen a lot of rogues with a theoretically high damage output but who fail to get many sneak attacks off, esppecially at high tier getting a melee full attack off is hard. I have seen rogues die horribly to opportunity attack crit's when they fail to tumble around large enemies. I have seen rogues try and fail to make use of mundane stealth due to a lack of cover and concealment.

I have yet to see rogues really do very much with their supposed skill advantage and see them routinely beaten in key skills like Perception by clerics, druids and others.


Lots of things break the challenge of a scenario. You dont get to ban legal options because you dont like them.


The war council section is pretty bad.. There is little indication as to what the PC's should be doing or why and he idea that a high tier group especially would want to bring along a group of low level warriors to get chewed up by the sorts of things high levels groups face is rather farcical.

It is also entirely unclear how the presence of the NPC's interacts with party AOE. It is clear that at least some of them are mixing it up in melee with the giants, what happens when you drop a black tentacles or an empowered fireball into the mix? Who knows, the scenario doesn't address it despite it being extremely common at this level.


Given the nature of the Heart and what happens over the few day following the defeat of Nhur Athemon I would be inclined to treat it as a condition which has to be resolved or the character is reported as dead.

When we played our Rogue grabbed it and inevitably failed the save. We managed to remove it with a remove curse eventually and he inevitably died. The scenario is extremely annoying as it does not give any obvious way to learn of the implications of removing it or how you can save someone when you do. Also as restoration has a 3 round cast time it isn't actually possible to save someone with it as you only have a round.

Blindmage wrote:
Also, don't summoned creatures have some will of their own?

Not really no. Summoned creatures fight your enemies to the best of their ability. You can get summoned animals to undertake other tasks but you probably need handle animal checks for that. If you can communicate with your summons then you can get them to do other things.

Called creatures have more options as you generally need to bargain for them and they have the option to twist what you try and make them do if they aren't happy about it.


From Summon Monster

This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions

Sissyl wrote:
Fourth, some critters break the mold, such as the Lantern archon, the Bralani eladrin, and the dire tiger, but most are pretty much useless outside certain abilities like the earth glide for earth elementals

You missed a few.

At low levels flights of eagles are rather dangerous if only because they have a lot of attacks.

The battle cattle can be dangerous and they clog up the battlefield extremely well and trample can be quite dangerous when multiple bison do it.

The other big cats are decent for their level although the dire tiger is absolutely top notch.

The Ankylosaurus is an absolute beast, making decent damage dazing attacks every round is horribly effective and they are huge so have significant map presence.

Sissyl wrote:
Third, yes, you can do Std action summoning, but if you do, you instead lose a lot of options. Evil has it easy with Summon Evil Monster, but otherwise it is Sacred Summons, and that only lets you summon a very few critters (those with alignment subtypes, so the animals are out) as Std actions. Depending on alignment, you have a few, as in two or three.

You missed a few. Firstly obviously there is the summoner. Secondly acadamae graduate wizards do it. Thirdly occultist arcanists do it although they took a hit with the terrible ACH errata.

There may well be others.


I am busy prepping this and I have to say the mapping for this module is incredibly annoying.

The two maps of the greenhouse area are fine, they look like they will work OK but the rest are terrible. The map provided for the first encounter seems to have been chosen because it will fit the page layout rather than because it is appropriate for the encounter. Using the narrow alley map in fact makes it incredibly difficult to simulate what is supposed to happen because it will be almost impossible for the enemy to surround J.

Area C is especially annoying. We have multiple named and numbered locations for Area C but no map showing how they interrelate. Instead we get one pretty pointless big empty room for the encounter taking up loads of space to no effect whatsoever.

That is really quite disappointing and is the sort of basic failure you would expect to be caught in the editing process. It's a shame as the actual scenario looks interesting with lots of opportunities for different play styles.


For level 14

You don't have to use disable device or the stones, there is nothing stopping you breaking through or bypassing them in other ways. When we played it I stone shaped a hole to get us through but you could just as easily dimension door past them.

Jiggy wrote:
How does that even happen?

Cognitive dissonance?

Betwixt wrote:
5d6 damage would take a while to take a golem down.

The stone golem, which is pretty much the most iconic one out there, has 107hp, a speed of 20 and a touch AC of 8. Even if you are just using snowball that is an average of 6-7 casts to kill it. Given you are likely to be flying it can do literally nothing to you. You are probably better off just dropping it into an Acid Pit and forgetting it exists but it is entirely feasible to kill it with snowball.

Add in a 3k Rod of Intensify Spell and that goes down to about 3 rounds.

DeathQuaker wrote:
Your first fight with a golem--which are pretty common RPG enemies--will demonstrate exactly how important having a strong martial member of the party is.

This comment here really just demonstrates how people utterly misunderstand what caster weaknesses actually are. Golems are hilariously weak to casters because although they have immunity to spells which allow SR there are masses of spells which don't allow SR. They also tend to have utterly terrible saves, pathetically low movement, no skill modifiers and no ranged attacks.

Arcane casters invalidate them with spells like Glitterdust, Acid Pit, Invisibility, Flight or Snowball. Caster Clerics trap them behind walls or summon lantern archons or similar to demolish them. Melee Clerics just demolish them with an adamantine weapon. Druids do a mix of both or just have their animal companions tear them to pieces.

Golems are a joke to a caster who has a clue what they are doing.


Also, anything you want to use you must own the source material for. It being in PCGen is not sufficient.

Rub-Eta wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:


Wind wall...

AMF, casters sucks! There is always something for everything, not an argument.

Instantaneous conjurations say screw you AMF. Also people putting themselves inside AMF's is pretty stupid because you turn off some of your most important abilities, like most of your gear. Unless you are a very large dragon you wont want to use AMF.

I am curious about the earthgliding options. Earth Glide is a badly written ability wherever it appears and it is far from clear how it is supposed to work. While I can see allowing someone to 5' step down into the earth I am less convinced you can 5' step upwards. You certainly cat fly 5' up as a free action and upwards movement costs double. Earth actually makes a fairly oblique reference to swim, can you swim 5' directly up if you have a fly speed?

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HWalsh wrote:

I apologize for being open about this but...

I do not believe you.

I don't think its possible for a caster, who is a crafter, who isn't specialized for spells, to overshadow a competent fighter in combat.

I know because I can make an Archer or a Melee'er that is capable of specialized spellcasting levels of damage until around level 12 or so.

This is the problem you have. You seem to think that dominating combat is about being able to deal damage when that is the least effective way casters have. Controlling the battlefield, locking down enemies and preventing them from doing anything is immensely more effective. Then your summoned, plaanr bound or animated allies can dispose of them at your leisure.

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Zenogu wrote:
Back on topic. Rules often overlooked? Counterspelling. In my 10+ years of 3rd edition-PF, I've seen maybe 1 successful counterspell.

People dont overlook it, they dont use it because its a terrible system and you are far better readying an action to attack them when they cast instead. Direct damage is likely to force an unbeatable concentration check.

Aelryinth wrote:
The real killer for casters was the full round casting time. If they got hit, they lost the spell.

This but combined with a number of other issues.

You got far fewer spell slots
Wizards got no bonus spells for having a high Int
You were not guaranteed the spells you wanted
Magic item creation was hard, didnt come online until later levels and for permanent items cost you a point of Con which you had almost no way to get back
Many of the most powerful spells aged you multiple years

Plus, saves got BETTER with level, not worse. Trying to use save or dies against high level foes was a laugh. They'd save on a 2+. An 18th level mage going up against a Fighter better be using no-save spells and have a LOT of interference, because otherwise the Fighter was just going to plow through everything, and murder him in 2 rounds or so.

This was also a major difference. Saves were much better but also HP were lower across the board. You didnt get max HP at level 1 and you didnt get average, you rolled and lived with it. A level 18 Wizard is likely to have 11d4+7 HP, an average of 33. If he is very lucky he might have a Con of 15 or 16 and get +1-2 HP per HD so 11-22 more. He cannot get +3-4 (the bonus for 17 and 18) as that is limited to Fighters, Rangers, Paladins and Barbarians. A level 18 wizard with maximum health has 73hp.

Our fighter types, with double weapons specialisation, at level 18, are swinging 3 times per round for 1d10+3 per hit before we factor in strength modifiers or magic bonus. If he is an archer it is even worse, especially at point blank range (5-30'). With a +2 weapon and a mid 18(--) strength our average wizard is quite possibly dead in a single full attack which will deal something like 3d10+24 damage.


Michael Eshleman wrote:
The Heal skill when used to treat poison and treat disease only gives a +4 to the save if the check result exceeds the DC of the affliction (unlike in 3.5 where the skill check would replace your saving throw if it was better).

Yes, the Heal spell, 660gp to guarantee disease and poison removal.


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There is no basis for turning it into a beneficial effect within PFS. Homes games may well differ.

As far as potions and wands go, they are all made at minimum caster level from the lowest of the wizard, cleric or druid list. If a spell doesnt appear on any of those I would use the lowest available caster level.

Similarly, if you are buying a spellcasting service using PP that is also minimum caster level. If you are using cash you can buy a higher caster level casting. I find that a lot of people forget that remove disease, neutralise poison, break enchantment and remove curse all require caster level checks to work. For the first two Heal may well be a better option as it is guaranteed.

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