I have darkleaf studded armor
3 armor max dex is 7 no ac and 775gp
and your wearing crazy leaves and twigs and whatnot
the main feats you want are
point blank shot
the order is up to you, but the first should be point blank shot and either precise or deadly aim or rapid reload.
rapid shot is likely 4th or 5th. if you are going to get a double pistol then wait on rapid reload as that is per gun type so wont work with your starter pistol (and I think it is 3rd level at the earliest that you will have the fame for a double pistol).
I took precise shot last as it was situational. not sure if I would do this again, as even against touch ac I would still miss a lot when firing into melee.
after this there are good feats to take (extra grit being a good one), but none that are as "essential" as these first five
I think like others are saying, gunslinger doesnt work well as a backup class. you'd probably be better off with a wand of magic missile then one lvl of gunslinger (then you'd be a missile slinger).
Lexica Rose wrote:
I always assumed that two misfires would explode the gun and that the penalty stacks as well. but I suppose that doesnt make sense as it is two separate barrels, so why would one being broken cause the other, which isnt broken, to go straight to exploding.
I think the "penalties stack" is referring to deadly aim stacking with twf stacking with double pistol, etc. the reference to "do not have a type" is alluding to the bonus types (like competence bonus) and how they dont stack, so it is clarifying that the penalties do. but I dont think this means that they would increase in anyway.
the devs. explination to the first question is very confusing, but I think he is saying that double pistol shot is one of the attacks, as in "an attack that is a part of the full-attack" i.e. in a full attack round you get (say) three attacks, 1st bab, 2nd bab, and rapid shot, the "double tap", referring to the original question, is one of those attacks, as in the 1st bab, but this does not mean that the other attacks being made couldnt also be attacks made with both barrels. in other words, your first attack could be both barrels with the -4 to hit for both, your 2nd bab could be a single barrel shot and your rapid shot attack could be single barrel as well. or they could all be double barrel shots. again, this isnt totally clear, but if you look to his response to the 3rd question, which is about an all out attack with twf and double pistols at 20th lvl, I think he clarifies his answer:
firing all but 8 bullets (four attacks, 8 attack rolls) with the double pistol (at base attack plus double barrel pistol penalties at +12/+7/+2/-3 for each)
four attacks but 8 rolls-- double pistol means two rolls per attack. the +12/+7/+2/-3 is the bab at 20th lvl -4 for twf and -4 for double pistol.and furthermore
to get the off-handed weapon attacks (two at +12 and two at +7, just counting base attack and penalties for two-weapon fighting and the double barrel pistol)
again the +12 and the +7 are the babs and there are two because of the double pistol
I am curious to get to 7th lvl and get the targeting shot deed, seems like it could be very useful and super fun. could be a good signature deed for a musket master, especially nice with that extra range. on the other hand 20% misfires would be a drag...
dice with a history are definitely cool,
I agree, rolling a d10 is so nice, or a d12 is even better. I'd never want a falchion, even though it is the uber crit weapon, just becuase rolling 2d4 seems like such a drag. even d6s seem kinda rough...
deadly aim does work with guns.
you might want to stay gunslinger to at least 13th level where you no longer misfire. if you are twf using double barrel pistol misfires will probably be more common then you'd like.
also signature deed at 11th level.
edit: valmoon got me!
darkleaf cloth studded leather is max dex +7, no armor penalty, ac +3, 10 lbs, 775gp, and counts as masterwork if you want to add to it later..
yeah, no need to be a switch hitter. and it isnt really one trick pony, there is a lot of tactical decisions to make, to position yourself well and move as little as possible, all pretty close to melee. I looked into zen archer, but in the end it seemed pretty boring, just sit in the back and unload. gunslingers are a bit more on their toes, which is fun.
yeah, and the double musket would be 1-4, with the possibility of an explosion, which wont happen with a normal musket.
one trick to do, once you have 3rd lvl, and reloading with alchemical shots is a free action, reload your weapon at the beginning of your turn. this way when the combat/encounter is over you can reload with a normal shot/gunpowder, this saves money and also helps with the misfire range on the next shot you make.
rapid shot is very good-- not too expensive, but dont take this until 3rd level as you wont be able to take advantage of it until you get fast musket.
if you are going to multi-class, at least get to 5th level so you can add dex to damage.
and get a double-barreled musket whenever you have enough fame to afford (usually in 3rd level at some point). it is a -4 to hit, and adds a misfire, but doubles the damage. try to get a +1 on that asap as well, if not when you buy it-- if a non-magic gun explodes you're out the gold, but a magic weapon you can "make whole" for 60gp..
one question I have, is rapid reload and the issue of it being for a gun type (like muskets) or a specific gun (like either musket or double barreled musket). discussion on the boards seem to be that they are for specific guns. though in musket master archetype it mentions you get a bonus feat lvl1 rapid reload (muskets), plural, implying it is for all muskets. this makes sense to me as it is just two musket barrels, but with pfs it seems prudent to be very conservative... does anyone have any thoughts on this? has there been an official ruling?
if it is wrecked you can get a "make whole" spell for 60gp in pfs. the rules mention using gunsmithing feat to fix a wrecked firearm as well:
Early Firearms: If an early firearm with the broken condition misfires again, it explodes. When a nonmagical firearm explodes, the weapon is destroyed. Magical firearms are wrecked, which means they can't fire until they are fully restored (which requires either the make whole spell or the Gunsmithing feat).
though gunsmithing feat doesn't clarify this, and I am not sure how this would work in pfs-- anyone know if this was ever ruled on? though 60gp is cheap so maybe it doesnt matter...
but yeah, double pistol explosion before you can get the +1 to it seems a real bummer...
there are some nice ioun stones you can get as well that are listed in the seekers of secrets pathfinders chronicles book.
for instance for 2 prestige points you could get:
dark blue cracked: +2 to perception and sense motive checks
ah, yep, straight from the additional resources pdf you can download.... well, I guess I wasnt crazy after all!
omg, you are totally right, what was I thinking??? it must have gotten into my head somewhere that double pistols were outside of "always available"... though ironically, the whole impetus for my comments in this thread was to suggest not taking rapid reload, but now that I dont have it, I cant take full advantage of a double pistol! but thanks, glad I found this out..
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Hmm, I really need to read about PFS some more.
yeah, so many little rule variations to remember! and you have to be so RAW since the idea of pfs is that you can play anywhere and so need to maintain an objective as possible understanding of the rules. thus the annoying rapid reload for double pistol being different then the starter pistol. but it is fun and makes sense that as a pathfinder you would work/adventure with multiple different adventurers...
yeah, I guess I have been lucky thus far with encounters, moving into place in the that first round, and then reloading the beginning of each following round, the 5ft step being enough to do any repositioning. in one instance I stealthed into position before the melee started. it didnt quite work, I was busted at the last moment, so was in position, but rest of the party wasnt in the room when it all started. it was fun to try!
though with fame, it isn't until 1/3 into third level that you have the fame to make the double pistol purchase (and this is assuming you are getting 2 pp every game). in pfs you dont get the half cost craft firearms.
If you want to 2WF then I recommend 2 levels in Alchemist. Gets you the arm needed to reload 2 pistols, gets you Extracts (Shield is my favorite), and you can buff that Dexterity up with your Mutagen. Bombs are kind of a lame bonus but at least you can snag some Stingchucks for free and add Int to their damage...I typically do for swarms although it doesn't make sense how Stingchucks would damage a swarm...
hasnt it been concluded that using weapon cords allows for two weapon shooting? cheesey yes, but rule-wise totally legal?
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
double barreled pistol is probably the best gun you can get, just because every time you fire a shot you actually fire two. there could be some argument made for using a pepper box (or an advanced firearm for that matter-- I play pfs so never really think about them) and never getting rapid reload, but I dont think it would be a convincing one...
and glad you like my avatar :)
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
To be able to move and fire in every turn.
yeah, using alchemical shots to reload as a move action makes movement a bit more difficult in firing, but a) it is good to learn to move as little as possible and b) if your gun is loaded you can shoot and move in a round, and the next round reload and shoot. (I am almost 3rd lvl and only a couple times have not been able to make a shot because of needing to move two rounds in a row). so is it just a matter or preference between a bit extra damage and more flexibility with moving then?
for the record, this would be my feat build (with a double pistol)
1 point blank shot, deadly aim
maybe another thing to consider is that rapid reload for double pistol is different then normal pistol. this rule gets waived often, but I am in pfs where the rule is a reality, and you cant get a double pistol until after 3rd level...
Because reloading firearms as fast as possible is a bigger damage increase than deadly aim is.
at low levels you wont have rapid shot/extraBAB/twf, so reloading as a free action is unnecessary. I mean, I am saying you take rapid reload at 3rd level and then rapid shot at 4th. but I am just wondering if there is any other reason to take rapid reload at 1st level...
also, concerning that grit, it says "this extra point does not increase her maximum grit total" so I am assuming this means, well, I have no idea what it means, except for that you aren't getting any extra grit, except in the case that you go to sleep with less grit then maximum you will get an extra in the morning... which seems utterly pointless...
where is the wis/cha +1/2 level coming from? I have seen other mention of it, but cant find the rules about gaining grit with level... is it new? favored class bonus? have I completely missed something?
believe me, I wish it werent so, and I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but if you search for rapid reload double pistol it brings up multiple posts like this one:
it does seem like something that gms might over look, but I think PFS-wise, that is the way it is...
truth be told, for pistoleros at least, it isnt that big a deal, if you take it at 3rd lvl you should be fine (even 5th level is maybe fine...). you aren't going to be doing multiple attacks first two levels anyway. it gets a bit crunchy with moving and shooting two rounds in a row, but it is doable, and if anything builds good practice with learning to move as little as possible for when you do have more attacks and want to take a full round attacking..
as for musketeers, it is maybe tougher, and again, I dont know how you'd deal with starting off with rapid reload feat. I play a pistolero so...
also, it is good to still have gunpowder and shots with you as well, no need to reload using alchemical cartridges after an encounter.
and if you've taken rapid reload you can use gunpowder and shots as a move action (with pistols at least) so if you are positioned well-- and dont need to move, you can shoot and reload the old fashioned way in your turn. of course, this only works well at lower levels...