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alair223's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 79 posts (80 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 10 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hi Mark,

Repeating my questions from a while ago:

The Beating: The beating stats that all allies in melee are considered flanking with its intermediate ability, for the purposes of teamwork feats do they all count as flanking with you as I have a heavy teamwork Medium build in mind.
Similarly with the supreme ability do you count as flanking with yourself?
Does dissolution require you to deal damage to apply this effect, as I read it I only need to hit?

The Liar: What is the duration of infatuation? Does it end if I swap spirits or do I have a bunch of people stalking me forever waiting for sempai to notice them?

It does currently seem like the strength spirits are giving methods of attack, either by granting new attack options or weapon proficiency. Though I would like to see one of them that is useful for ranged combatants.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You know the more that people complain about the medium not feeling like a medium the more I think that the Spiritualist and Medium should have their names changed over.

The Medium currently is channeling various spirits into themselves with no real control over them. Though Possessed, Channeled or Ridden would also work as names. I admit in part I think an oracle curse like system would have worked rather than the influence system but we don't want to crib from existing classes.

The spirtualist is in constant contact with a spirit, calm them as class abilities. Just add speak with dead to their spell list since they already have speak with haunt and spirits and its a medium

EDIT: I would say thinking about it a little more that as the mechanics current work, the medium is someone in contact with spirit world but not in control of the spirits. They are a conduit through which spirits can influence the world. Spirits both good and bad wish to use the medium for their own ends.

Also again I wish this mechanic hadn't already been used but I feel like with that idea in mind the Master Chymists Mutagenic Form is what this class is trying to get across with the influence system. A whole other aspect with their own alignment and relationships. Since that didn't require complete control taken away from the player I think that within reason there should be no reason a player shouldn't be able to continue roleplaying their possessed character.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Reading through the playtest those two classes and the spiritualist felt the most off and in need of work which leads people to come in with their opinions on how to fix it. Everyone wants these classes to be fun, interesting and most of all playable so the more broken they are the more people are going to want to fix them.

Occultist is pretty much ready to go other than an updated spell list. It is a great representation of a caster using implements to focus their power

Mesmerist sticks hard to its theme and you can easily see what is trying to do. Again I felt not much had to change for it to be good to go.

Psychic basically is ready to go out the door. It just needs more psychic spells which are being held back for the actual release and more disciplines.

Whereas the spiritualist feels like a toned down summoner archetype. It inspires with its theme but its mechanics are copy pasted from the summoner with a reduction in power. It needs to find its own niche. The developers need to step back and ask what role is this intended to fill in the party.

The Medium is a huge amount of potential in a slow and hindered package. Again the theme is strong in this one but people are trying to improve, streamline and simplify what looks to be an interesting flexible late game class with currently poor mechanics. It provides something that currently nothing else can achieve so people are interested in seeing it succeed.

The Kineticist excites people due to its theme but lacks punch in what people are seeing as its niche. People have said over and over again that this lets them do something that they couldn't do otherwise. This investment makes people want it to succeed and if the mechanics were good the thread would be character builds left right and center but they don't seem to add up so people are trying to find a way to make it work.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Condolences Mark.

Some questions for you to look at when you are more up to it:

The Beating: The beating stats that all allies in melee are considered flanking with its intermediate ability, for the purposes of teamwork feats do they all count as flanking with you as I have a heavy teamwork Medium build in mind.
Similarly with the supreme ability do you count as flanking with yourself?
Does dissolution require you to deal damage to apply this effect, as I read it I only need to hit?

The Liar: What is the duration of infatuation? Does it end if I swap spirits or do I have a bunch of people stalking me forever waiting for sempai to notice them?

The Bear: Not sure with the way it is reading but once you get the third tier ability are you adding two size categories on top of the intermediate ability? That would make a medium Medium from a large Medium to a gargantuan Medium which would pose a lot of issues adventuring or moving around town. Maybe an ability to turn the size on and off with a action.

Spellcasting: Since you have access to the spells from first level that means that your caster level is equal to your level or level - 3 when you start getting spell casting ability?

Some more opinions
The Twins: It feels thematic but the first ability requires you to use a very limited resource just to have it do anything and the second has no effect until you are up to triune spirit. I think it needs a nice secondary effect to make up for the fact that this is not worth taking until later

Desert: Shouldn't the deserts end effect be until the end of that characters next turn? If someone removes a status effect from me that has almost certainly used their standard action for the turn meaning this effect only would help on attack of opportunities.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think the class skills on Pain and Tranquility could change.

Diplomacy strikes me more as the tranquility option since they would be advocating calm and peace rather than tracking and survival.

Pain I'm not as sure about. You get power from pain which can be intimidating as someone laughs and seems to enjoy the more damage you do but at the same time I see it as someone who takes anything and comes out the other end alive indicating heal (patching oneself up) or survival (just downright living in even the harshest of conditions)

I could totally see playing a lore psychic and taking perform impression to replicate overheard conversations with voice acting.

I hope to see more disciplines to see what comes out of this class.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

We've had people talk about Harry Dresden and the Mandarin and I had a similar image of Thanos holding the infinity gauntlets with each gem having a power. I could see precious gems being an enchantment focus

I kind of feel like this is a class that is going to need a bandoleer to carry their implements with.

I do like the spells but item type idea but understand the desire to simplify by just having them use the established schools. Either would be fine with me.

I would like that however much you charged an item it would stay at that level even if you used effects from it. I can see cases where people won't want to use points from their focus items because they will lose their bonuses.

The spell list needs some tweaking to match up to the supplied abilities which people have already mentioned.

Overall I like the flavor and it feels variable in its role while still allowing focus giving players options. I do feel that classes have failed when there is one clear best build there should be variety and a desire to experiment and I feel like this class has those options once it gets tweaked

Sovereign Court

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nighttree wrote:

I have no problem with the number of spirits..would rather not see them decreased, and would hope that others would be added over time.

Not a fan of the idea of increasing BA....I'm fine with pinch hitting as melee with a Medium...but would hate to loose flexibility by it becoming the expected party role.

I think the problems people have with the class is that:

a) All other 4 level spellcasters (Bloodrager, Paladin, Ranger) are full bab d10 classes. It breaks the current precedent set by other classes.

I think people would be okay with it being 6 level spellcasting rather than BAB but I admit I would like one of the psychic classes to be the 'Front line' Class and with Medium armor and 4 spell level progression it fits that niche. Though if it did go full BAB I would support switching the attack bonus from strength to a CMB bonus so it is not just the obvious choice.

b) The Class is back loaded. Levels 1-7 are a bit of a drag.

This again plays into the increase BAB / Spellcasting just to give it more staying power. Another option would be to give the spirits 3+CHA per day abilties but it is already looking like a bit of book filler with content so adding more would not be a great idea

c) WALL OF TEXT! ZOMG 54 spirits

I can understand the argument. With 54 spirits each with 4 powers, boon, spellcasting, description, bonus and compulsion that is a lot of text. However like most I like the idea of a lot of options for my class so to me this is fine but I do understand the argument and I think Mark might get attacked by the Editor (CR 30 Book God) regarding spacing issue.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:


Alair223 wrote:

What happens to equipment that the phantom is wearing if it is recalled or sent to the ethereal plane does it just fall to the floor as the phantom fades away?

Yes.

I can definitely see some GM's diabolically rubbing their hands together at that response

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Flavor is an A+ on this class, just looking through the forum you can taste the excitement.

However the issue I find is sadly mechanical in nature. This class feels rather summonerish only toned down to the point where someone only takes it for flavor.

The Phantom is rather subpar when compared to both an animal companion and the Eidolon for melee combat. Given the fact that you are boosting DEX and CHA I would like to see spirits focused more on SU or spell like abilities and ranged effects that play off its ever increasing DC's.

Trying to make this phantom more combat based will just turn it into an archetype of the summoner and that is something I think we all would like to avoid.

Regarding the manifestations I think the shield should scale up by +2 each time you get a new ability otherwise it is almost useless since you can use light armor without issues anyway since I didn't notice that psychic magic has arcane spell chance failure. Also I feel like these should be minute per day not round per day. EDIT: Also I wouldn't mind seeing a higher level ability of this if it switches to minutes per level that allows use of phantom powers. IE useable for 1/rd a level each round using a minute of the regular bond time you could use Fear's aura effect. This activation uses the phantoms DC's and any payment effects must also be paid for by the phantom ie aura rounds. If the phantom cannot use the ability while incorporeal or doesn't have any uses left of the ability the action is wasted

What happens to equipment that the phantom is wearing if it is recalled or sent to the ethereal plane does it just fall to the floor as the phantom fades away?

Sovereign Court

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I'll say that reading through this book I feel that it has flavor absolutely oozing out of every pore (probably should get that looked at).

I look at the flavor of these classes and I can see building a class around them even with some of their sub par mechanics (A discussion for class threads).

As long as the time is taken to get the mechanics right I feel like this could be the most interesting core release for quite a while.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just one more thing Mark. Why the influence system rather than using something like Ego which was already established in magic items?

I understand you wanted a quantifiable tool for measuring control and a resource for using abilities. I just think that tracking influence levels will be something that will be a little bit annoying at later levels when you are throwing around a lot of spirits.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

When a spirit goes to 4 or more influence with you what is it reduced down to the next day? Is it 3 or is it the once per day reduction meaning if you got to say 5 influence you would be controlled for 2 days?

The class is already fairly text heavy but with the 0-4 influence scale I wouldn't mind a slight tweak where 0-1 is little to no influence, 2 is slightly influenced, 3 is severe influence then 4 is loss of control.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A few comments:

A agree with everyone else that the class needs a boost. Either Full BAB and good Fort or increase to 6 level casting. Just something to give it some oomph.

I feel that the charisma ones are a bit lackluster. Losing the spirit boon means that if you pick charisma it needs to be your primary spirit or nothing. I don't quite feel that the powers provided stack up as well for losing that boon benefit.

Also an idea might be to change the way that you recharge. If for some reason I can't get 8 hours rest and an hour to meditate I lose ALL my class abilities. I can't even trance because I have no spirits riding me. Even casters get to keep any spells they didn't use from the previous day this seems a bit harsh.
I'm not sure how to balance it. Maybe after 24 hours all spirits still inhabiting you get an additional +1 to their influence if this would push multiple spirits to 4 then it goes in order of Primary, secondary, etc. This would be because you haven't completed your meditation to put up mental walls to prevent your mind being influenced.

With regards to the spirits will your own alignment have any effect on what spirits you can choose?

I feel that this class has AMAZING roleplaying potential. However I feel that mechanically it's not quite there yet.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
MadE wrote:
A half orc level 10 fighter does have 11 feats right? And not 10?

1st, fighter 1, fighter 2, 3rd, fighter 4, 5th, fighter 6th, 7th, fighter 8th, 9th, fighter 10th

So yes 11 feats for a core nonhuman fighter. You should have level +1 feats

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
thegreenteagamer wrote:
Spiked armor usually covers the "swallow whole" gamut nicely.

True. Depends on the way the character goes. I typically don't have the armor spikes if I am playing good face characters.

Though if you are planning on getting heavy armor make sure you also own an armored coat. You never know when you will have a raid at night where you can't put on that lovely full plate.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Errant_Epoch wrote:
Leveling guide list

No improved critical?

Also with regards to the OP Fighter is a nice simple class that you can build any way you like for combat. I suppose the question to ask is what kind of fighter do you want to build?

Are you upfront with a two handed weapon? Then Errant_Epoch or Greenteagamer have provided some good advice. Just remember to also have a light slashing weapon as you are in the level range for swallow whole to be an issue.

Are you planning to fire arrows from afar? Are you going for the traditional sword and shield? If so those require different builds and feats. Some more information about what you want to do is nice.

Also remember the mundane gear. It's nice to have your flashy +2 sword but that won't help you sleep outdoors like a winterblanket or tent will. Sure the wizard can cast fly to get you out of that pit trap or you could throw a rope up to your allies if you aren't in combat. You could try to remember your way out or you could mark corridors with a piece of chalk. Mundane gear is often forgotten.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
noble peasant wrote:
Varying stuff

Thanks for the advice noble. I guess I should have been clearer. I am not planning to fall (However another paladin in the same game is skating on the line) and the options I gave already is where he would likely end up in case of a fall.

I meant this as a more generic question to provide advice to anyone thinking about or is in heavy danger of falling the options they have in rebuilding their character back up from the ashes of a fall.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Have a sit down with the player and let him know that what he has been doing has been disrupting the table. Let him know what it is that the group is wanting to do or gain out of playing there. He may decide to change to suit or he may say that isn't what he wants to play.

Give him a chance to mend his ways as I have seen someone like this change into a very decent roleplayer.

Sovereign Court

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I had a couple of ideas for a game I did once. I suggest you preroll your NPC results:

Log cutting:
Players are given an option of two mw handaxes or a mw greataxe. In 10 rounds they have to see how many logs they can cut through. 2 Hardness 10hp logs with 5ac. Move action to place a new log. Winner is the one who cuts the most logs and gets their choice of the mw handaxe or greataxe

Drinking:
Players take a swig of alcohol DC 5 con check then have to walk across a weaving line which is fairly easy sober being a dc 5 acrobatics check to maintain balance then take another drink and walk back and continue. Each time you take a drink the DC of both goes up by 2. Failing the con check means you are either puking up your guts or passed out drunk and are eliminated. Failing the acrobatics check you step (or stagger as the case may be) over the line and are eliminated. Winner is the last one standing. Prize can be some nice alcohol

Card playing:
Basically a poker tournament. Winner takes all. Players have to make a bluff check and sense motive check plus a single extra d10 for luck. Person with the highest result wins. Prize would be money obviously

Archery competition:
It's in every medieval carnival/festival so you might as well put it in as well. Everyone uses the same bow (large and small provided) to hit a target. Give multiple AC's for various points on the target and that's where they hit. 5 arrows for the highest score. Prize can be a nice mw bow for the show of skill

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Given the amount of threads out there regarding paladin falling for practically everything other than scratching their nose and currently playing a paladin and having through through this myself.

I thought I would bring up the question: "How do you move on after you've fallen?"

Getting a atonement might seem like the most simple way but if the paladin willingly chooses to fall and doesn't want to hop back on that pain train what are the best options for retraining your now fallen knight?

For one whom fell from good but not from law a Cavalier or samurai is an option (especially if you took the bonded mount). Choosing to follow a new code that might be less restrictive than your old one while maintaining your martial training to the fullest.

For one whom fell from law then Bloodrager with the celestial bloodline is a fitting change. Especially for one whom without their laws and god restricting them have let their anger run wild.

Of course the obvious fall all the way to Antipaladin is there but most GM's would be telling you to hand over your character sheet due to issues with evil characters and party dynamic.

Any other ideas?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I generally find the major issue is how they portray their character.

I kept finding in games that a lot of players who played the opposite gender tended to be playing a sexual fantasy, the shirtless male glistening with sweaty muscles (Do you not own shirts?) vs the stick thin female with large BREASTS (that have their own gravity given the way some describe them and yes the caps is appropriate in those cases). Both are uncomfortable to deal with on the table. Not to mention the player who played a character with profession dominatrix.

If the player is actually playing a character and not just some sexualised object then it doesn't tend to be as much of an issue. Gender and looks are just part of a character and when played as such I think most people don't have an issue with it.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Most of the people I play with tend not to make overly stupid mistakes but there were a few.

Story the first:

The first involved a paladin who had received a mission to save slaves. Sounds easy enough so after investigating we find the kidnapped people underground in a derro lair. While the barbarian/rogue is carefully picking the locks on the cages the paladin is gleefully killing all of the weak mites attacking us.

This continued on throughout the adventure with the paladin killing around 85% of all the mites due to them being so much weaker than us that the rest of the party (cleric, barb and ranger) didn't bother.

Cue to the final boss fight where the paladin's player re-reads his faction mission and reads out that it said that "even evil creatures deserve a chance at freedom" and realizes in horror that his paladin had been slaughtering the very creatures he had been meant to save.

Needless to say he failed his mission.


Story the second:

The second is more player stupidity than epic failing. The group consisted of a paladin, barbarian, sorc, cleric and one other. The 7 wis, 7 int sorcerer had proceeded to show a secret message he received to anyone he could (since he was an incredible gossip) resulting in plenty of people seeing the message and who we were working for at the time. The paladin took the message off the sorc but not before the damage had been done and the groups trust in their newly met sorc went straight into the outhouse.

During the adventure we found some incriminating documents on the table after a fight and the sorc demanded to see them. The paladin announced that they were of sensitive nature and the sorc couldn't be trusted with the documents. The sorcerer declared that he HAD to see the documents. Once again the paladin denied the sorc and the sorcerer player declared that he was casting burning hands on the paladin.

This brought the table up short, total silence. The DM asked was the player sure about that and he said he was. The barbarian who had been next to the sorc cleaning his greatsword asked again, was he sure, and the player still declared that they were. The barbarian player asked if he was casting defensively which the sorcerer was not. The barbarian proceeded to take a nonlethal attack of opportunity, he crit and confirmed resulting in taking the sorc into negatives due to rollover from nonlethal.

The cleric cast stabilize and the party put his unconscious body into the loot sack and carried him through the rest of the dungeon. After which he was dumped at the inn and ooc was suggested to tone the character down or design another one.

The player decided that the character had burnt too many bridges on his introduction and brought in something else.


Story the third spoilers for RotRL book 1:

Our intrepid party consisted of a cavalier (cockatrice order), a alchemist, a barbarian/oracle, a sorcerer and another character which I can't remember at the moment.

After clearing the goblin menace from the town the group realized that they had to go through a large bramble batch in order to get to the goblin den. The cavalier refused to leave his noble mount behind and proceed to charge through the thorny vines blindly.

He cleared a path straight through the thorny patch... to the cliff edge which his horse rode straight over. The falling damage knocked both unconscious. The barbarian dove off the cliff and stayed awake channeling positive energy which woke up the cavalier but not his mount. The cavalier dove under the water to try and get his mounts head above water

The alchemist used their touch of the sea potion and dove off afterwards hoping to use their extracts to help and proceeded to take nearly maximum damage from the fall and almost dying on impact. The sorc and other character were just standing there wondering what the heck just happened while the goblins were laughing their green backsides off from their own vantage point.

The barbarian/oracle proceeded to channel again which woke up the horse but not the alchemist so the cavalier and horse swam to shore while the barbarian carried the unconscious alchemist to shore.

The cavalier, alchemist, barbarian and other character all retired after that incident for varying reasons.


Story the forth spoilers for RotRL book 1:

The sorcerer from the previous story rounded up a new adventuring group willing to risk their lives to stop the goblin menace. Finding two paladins, a ranger and a inquisitor the group made their way into the castle where the goblins seemed to be using as a base.

Coming across a room with two doors and a corridor proceeding away from them, the ranger carefully leaned down and began picking the lock on one of the doors. This was taking some time (due to a botched roll failing by 4 followed by a successful one) one of the paladins walked over to the other room and heard noises and proceeded to burst into the room while the 2nd paladin proceeded to announce that he started banging on his shield and walked down the corridor between the two rooms challenging the cowardly goblins to come out.

As the lock clicked open unheard in the rangers hands the three remaining party members all facepalmed as now multiple encounters were triggered at the same time. The corridor paladin ended up in a 1 on 1 fight against a fighter while the other paladin burst in on a bugbears harem. The half elf ranger, the sorc and the inquisitor moved to back the (slightly less stupid) paladin at the harem. Unfortunately the bugbear was a ranger with favored enemy elf and elf bane arrows so he took an attack of op from the paladin to target his most hated foe. Proceeding to crit and confirm the ranger was left with only 2 hit points left before death claimed him.

Unfortunately the fighter had knocked out the corridor paladin in this time and charged the inquisitor tying him up while the other paladin was focusing the bugbear so the ranger bled out on the floor. The fight didn't go well with the inquisitor and paladin both being dropped by the fighter before the sorc just managed to take him out.

So sadly due to the paladins acts the innocent ranger lost his life.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Really it depends on the out of character interactions here.

You can have an evil character who steals from the party as long is everyone is okay with it out of character and acknowledges that there will be in character consequences when they are caught.

However it seems like based off what you have described that the players have out of character problems and this issue is largely escalating. Have a sit down with your players and discuss the issue and if it is causing bad blood then shut that thing down. Remember the goal is to have fun as a group. When one player is having fun at the expense of everyone else you will run into problems.

If players genuinely have a problem with each other out of character then they need to resolve that themselves the DM can't fix that for them. The best you can do there is ask them to keep it out of the game.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've done 'target the caster' twice. Once was more about just simple tactics and the other was an elite group specializing in taking out curious adventuring groups.

cut to reduce spammyness:

First was with a group of trolls with an advanced troll leading them who basically beat into their brains "FIRE BAD! KILL DEM GUYS DAT DO FIRE STUFF"
So they targeted the alchemist and magus who used fire on them. However the alchemist was behind a wall of paladin so she was safe. The magus however for some reason thought that sneaking up behind the trolls while invisible with no other backup to use burning hands without hitting his allies was a brilliant move... while on half health... yeah he got eaten.

The other was with a set of basically elite werewolf guards. Their sole duty was to keep people out of their forest. If their 'human' companion couldn't convince hunters/merchants/meddlesome adventurers to leave then they had to make sure that no one survived so getting the caster became priority.
So it was werewolf monk with panther style leads the way knocking down anyone who tries to AOO them and once most of the melee guys were flat on their backs/cautious of AOO then the hidden barbarians came in to say hello. It was a very rough fight. They 'forgot' to use the oil of darkness since it was bad enough already.

As always with bad guy encounters you need to pay attention to their motivations. Why are they there? Why are they willing to fight the party? Thinking about this lets you step into their mindset and from there you can roleplay how they would actually act rather than following set tactics.

Some won't target spellcasters, some would target them almost exclusively. One tactic doesn't always work and shouldn't always be used other than mindless creatures attacking mindlessly

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Natan Linggod 327 wrote:

Second would be Efreeti (Wishcrafter Ifrit archtype) Although I would ask the GM to jigger it to Djinni bloodline instead.

*sing You Ain't Never Had a Friend Like Me* pop culture references would abound in this game...

You would make a character just so you could make pun out of character references? *Slow clap* Bravo my kind of player.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
blahpers wrote:
Arcane trickster capstone lets you sneak attack with fireball, much less magic missile. Weirdly, in the latter case the sneak attack only applies to a single missile, while the former case sneak attacks everything within the area of effect. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Really? I knew it worked for fireball since the capstone states that effects that allow a saving throw for half or negate also halves and negates sneak attack, but I didn't know that sneak attack would only work on 1 missile.

Why is that? If the condition that they are flatfooted holds then all should work? Obviously things like feint and the like only last for 1 attack so 1 missile but since each is a separate thing and an opponent was flatfooted in say a surprise round why wouldn't all missile deal sneak attack?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ninja 20, Sorcerer 10, Arcane trickster 10
What do you mean you just magic missiled me for 5d4 + 75d6?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I had a CN Barbarian who was trying to assault his way onto a ship. The crew was trying to hold him off (the rest of the party was going up the other ramp while I had their attention) and getting cut down. The captain used his whip to disarm his greatsword and one of the deckhands picked it up.

So being a barbarian he finally decided to rage against this insult and pulled out his backup scythe, attacked the guy crying "No one touches my weapon but me!" Crit, confirm, sliced in half deckhand. Rest of the crew decided there was a leak at the bottom of the boat that they needed to get into the water to check.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Here is one ring that shall never be forged:
Ring of vengeful blood magic: Cost 5400
Construction requirements: 17500, combat reflexes, quicken spell, forge ring

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Justin Sane wrote:

Let's say a monk hits 3 times for 1d8 each, one of the rolls was a natural 20, confirmation roll confirms crit. How much damage is that?

A)Sum up all damage, then apply crit multiplier, for 6d8 damage;
B)Apply crit modifier to individual attacks, then sum up all damage, for 4d8 damage.

The way I read it is that this is meant to be a way of bypassing DR. Basically you are condensing every attack into one single blow.

So say you have 4 attacks in your flurry at 1d10+5. Two hit, the third crits and forth misses. This would mean your singular blow is now 3d10+15 and is a critical threat. Confirming on a x2 would be 6d10+30.

I could be wrong but that is the way I am reading it

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've played with the Lore, metal and nature mysteries. I generally find that the most popular is life (which is why I have avoided playing it). However I think that any mystery can be used to good effect if you are willing to specialize.

Lore is great for skill checks out of combat. +20 to knowledge checks cha modifier times per day is a nice bonus, the GM used to just sigh and start reading out those obscure details. Replacing dex for both ac and reflex meaning it is only used for init and skills. Sadly in combat it was not quite as crash hot. (Was killed twice by two different alchemists before I let her go)

Metal is a decent combat guy but I think I built it wrong so it didn't fare too well. I was building him as a crafter and front line combat sadly I didn't have time to start converting my cash to upgrades before his untimely demise. (Was eaten by a land shark)

Nature has some strong options and some weak ones. I built this one as a pure summoner taking all the summon nature ally feats and buffs. I made it rather anti caster since her offense is handled by summons who she orders to target other casters and she spends her rounds either buffing or counter spelling for fun and profit. (Still alive in Jade Regent)

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Hmm from most recent to least recent

Marcus Garidian - Human Paladin 9 of Abadar LG (Kingmaker)-

Summary:
A negotiator sent to the fledgling kingdom to the south of brevoy trying to make sure that all the potential trade from new resources aren't robbed/exploited. Assigned by his Banker to assist the council he has joined their recon and exploration team removing threats and negotiating with native creatures to help cement the nation

Victoria Vitrix- Human Oracle 8 of Gozreh CN (Jade Emperor) -

Summary:
Seeking to make up for a devastating error in her youth which got her home caravan destroyed by bandits she needs to see the caravan she is with through so that she and perhaps the friends and family that haunt her can forgive her

Maria Cornish - Human Witch 3 CN (CoCT) -

Summary:
Alone on the streets is no way to grow up but fortune favored her when she came across a female wizard being shanked in an alley. Sneaking up after the murder had left she stole the wizards belongings including his rat familiar who promised the girl magical powers, a way out of her life (if not then he was dinner). Picked up by the local guard soon afterward mistaking her for the expected wizard she has been teamed up with a band of mercenaries who offered her gold (not coppers, GOLD!) for her assistance

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I can see most people have brought up the same things I've been looking over in the book. There is some good, some bad and some "What were they thinking?" throughout the book.

I have a friend who is already looking at retraining out paladin levels for that cha to saves feat using the SLA stuff. It really does seem like a no brainer for almost any oracle.

I can see they are setting some things up for future because some stuff does nothing at the moment but is likely for stuff down the line.

Example:
Hunter levels count as druid/ranger but only for animal companion feats but all the feats to effect animal companions generally just require the animal companion class feature

There is one feat I can see that will get some use for animal companion classes:

Feat details:

Spirit’s Gift
Requires: Animal companion or familiar class feature (considering other stuff specifically mentions the Mount class feature I wonder if Samurai and Cavaliers qualify)
At the start of the day, you can choose to commune with a single shaman spirit. For the next 24 hours, that shaman spirit augments your animal companion or familiar, as its spirit animal ability.

Some options available are: Fast healing 1, immunity to fire (though weak to cold), dr 5/adamantine and more

Those are some pretty strong options that you can switch each day giving your animal companion a nice boost

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Agree with most of the other posters. Monk, gunslinger and Caster Druid/Cleric tend to be their best output classes.

I have a caster druid for the skull and shackles adventure path and it is working out quite well. Swim speed has saved more than one party member.

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Ask them about their characters. Find out what their motivations are. Evil doesn't mean psychopath.

I have played in an evil party (highest alignment was LN) we managed to work in the campaign because for the most part our party were selfish bastards out for their own interests. We would do anything to get the job done: torture, bribes, lie, cheat and steal. Nothing was below the belt.

The DM switched the motivation from "save the world because you are good!" to "We'll pay you a lot of money if you stop those guys ransacking the city."

We pretty much became black ops for the government doing the jobs that no one else wanted or were willing to do.

Our overall journey may have saved the world but that was only because the world happened to be the place we lived and by the way that is a million gold saving the world fee either in a lump sum or with a 3.5% interest compounded monthly until payed off I'll have my people contact your people.

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Obviously it seems the Earth aspect is a bit divisive.

In my mind it fills me with both excitement and apprehension. I am excited by the prospect of the visit to a world without magic (or at least very hidden magic) and how Paizo handles this. However I could easily see it being mishandled by a DM, rushed writing or by players to cause a very awkward book.

I expect a quality product from Paizo and hope that the result meets the expectations of the people here who are excited by the prospect.

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I am willing to bet that at least one player I know will aim to take the place of one of the Knights for Baba Yaga. By being marked by the BK it seems like this could definately be a possibility.

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P.H. Dungeon wrote:
I had a player in my Savage Tide campaign playing a goliath barbarian. He had some cheesy racial feat that would let him assume large size when he went into his rage. They were on the Isle of Dread and he'd wandered off with a fellow PC to get some fire wood. The pair runs into a T-rex.

I remember that T-rex. He ate our dwarf barbarian/ranger. The character was an absolute powerhouse but didn't have any weapon other than his greataxe. So the t-rex swallowed him whole and he couldn't get free before dying.

Another addition for myself for worst death:

Hidden for RotRL spoilers:
Playing in the first book of RotRL I had a half-elf trapper ranger. We hadn't gone too well and had already lost one character to insanity by touching the runes. So we reached the castle and come to a area with two doors (the nursery and harem) and a corridor.

My ranger kneels down to start unlocking the nursery when two players got bored. Both of these are playing paladins mind you. One starts banging his sword on his shield and walking down the corridor to attract the attention of the bad guys while the other opens the door to the harem as my ranger finishes unlocking the door.

As you might guess this didn't go down well. The paladin who walked down the corridor ended up attracting another encounter while the second paladin charged the bugbear ranger in the harem. The serpant sorceror and my ranger moved to back the second paladin up after we both took swift actions to face palm.

As soon as my half elf appeared the bugbear dropped his weapon drew his bow and took an attack of op from the paladin to shoot me. This was due to tactics since he hated elves and my character embraced his elf side and made no effort to hide it. Nat 20, Nat 20 to confirm with a elf bane arrow. Large damage rolls dropped my ranger to a few off his con from full.

The paladin completely ignores my ranger which I thought was odd since he had sworn the oath of charity and the bugbear can't attack him and me, out of character, telling him he needed to do something. Several rounds later the ignored ranger bled out on the floor of that room.

So my character died because two people were too impatient to let my character do his job of checking doors and unlocking them. The game lasted one more session before breaking up.

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Damn Trial of the Beast is lethal:

Name: Urhgan
Race: Orc (wearing a hat of disguise to make him look human)
Classes/levels: Fighter (Two-handed) 6
Adventure: Trial of the beast
Location: 1st Level of the tower
Catalyst: Guardian of the tower and some unlucky damage rolls
The group was clearing out the schloss without too much issue until they came across the final tower. Deciding to break in using the fighter lockpick method the Guardian was alerted and had a readied action to attack when the door was opened.

Usually the first one in was the tower shield fighter but since he had fallen into every trap in the flooded lab he elected to go last this time. Urhgan walked in first and received a claw to the face.

Both Urghan and the dwarf held the line with the cleric channeling as best she could while the alchemist and gunslinger tried to lay waste to the golem. Some poor rolling from urghan had him miss every strike against the Guardian and after two claws brought him down to 1 hp the maximum damage rend coupled with some con loss from an earlier battle spelled the end for the big orc.

However his sacrifice gave the party a chance to finish off the golem and eventually make their way up to finally defeat the promethean and end the threat at the schloss.

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My party just cannot make a will save to save their lives.

I just had my party 'take on' the Erinyes. Thanks Trinite for the idea to have her just take off when the bridge was cleared. The Erinyes feared the cleric and the fighter that had fly on sending them out of the fight. The alchemist went down in one round of focus fire leaving only the gunslinger and the second fighter who were shooting from the rusted lab and cowering behind his tower shield at the opposite ledge respectively. I had her then announce fulfillment of her contract and disappear. The party was freaked by that fight.

My party feels like this dungeon was just made to slaughter people.

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I ran a game and when the party had no healer they were joined by: Gene Eric

Not to be mistaken for his sister: Jean Eric

It got a laugh when they heard the last name and realised it.

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Well I had the talk and the players acknowledged my concerns. We're working on fleshing out their current characters. I've also decided to tone back the combat until everyone gets settled into their new characters giving them time to care about the characters and want them to stay alive. Though I also did warn the players that the majority of gear in the dungeon would be aimed towards the surviving characters to help them catch up with the new power creep.

Rather than the hero point system I am using the Harrow one and adding the option to turn it in to escape death.

I am chiefly using the harrow system since the rogue stole a harrow deck at the start of the game and I intend to run the harrowing to explain why they are getting the powers they are and how these cards keep mysteriously appearing in their pockets.

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I'm running Carrion Crown so:

Spoiler:

The trolls at the gate in Schloss Caromarc killed 2 and forced one retirement. They went back and still lost one more person and had another on negatives. It was a slaughter.

Agreed with everyone else about the air elemental and the Erinyes

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Dotting plus stickyness

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I'd like to thank everyone who has put in their 2cp on this topic.

Regarding the combat deaths, as a new DM I am still struggling to find the balance between challenging, easy and TPK. Through most of the first book I made the fights a little too easy until the last boss. Throughout this book they have gone from slogfests to near tpks to piddling easy fights as I try to get the balance right.

It is a fine line that I am trying to work because what is CR+or-1 depends on the party and that really is a matter for another thread. The experienced players know when I am softening up fights and after a few soft balls want a higher challenge. Going hard at them flusters the casual and beginner players into making errors which can get the party into serious trouble (Especially since they are the only sources of healing) and some of the fights are outright hard even for experienced players. All I can do is adjust as I go and learn from my mistakes.

In the end I don't want to punish my players for dying. I want to stop the idea that killing characters is a good thing. I want them to be invested in their characters and want to keep them alive. The players are my friends and I want this to be an enjoyable experience for both them and me.

As such I intend to talk to the players who are intending cannon fodder characters and try and work with them to make characters that they want to keep alive. To try and find out why they feel this way and explain my side to them. As long as people aren't trying to do deliberately kill their characters then my issue doesn't exist. If they wish to continue in this vein then I may need to consider some of the steps that have been advised here. I’ll post again after my chat.

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Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
you don't need to mechanically penalize these characters for dying. you merely need to make encounters easier so that they feel less need to use mass sacrifice tactics. the easy way to fix this is to dumb down some of your less intelligent monster's tactics. instead of focus firing the trolls on the firemaking caster, try breaking them up into smaller groups. adventure paths tend to offer less treasure than normal anyway. maybe, some of the monsters retained damage from the previous wipes or something.

Long answer here:

I don't as much want to punish them for dying. I want them to stay alive it was a harsh encounter and as a rookie DM I didn't realise how bad it would be.

I did the fight myself with the same characters as a test and while it should have scared the bajeezus out of them it shouldn't have been the near party wipe it was. It was a bunch of bad dice rolling mixed with bad tactics.
If the magus had hit with his big attack he would have dealt about 50 odd damage but he fumbled (He rolled damage and d20 together near max damage, nat 1 on d20).
If the cleric had remembered she had a fireball spell it would have helped.
If the magus hadn’t charged in under invisibility they would have been able to back off and the trolls would have had to fight one at a time or face squeezing rules instead of trying to be aggressive and getting multiple full attacks and provokes resulting in the paladin getting surrounded and his eventual death.
If the magus had used his pearl of power to get back vanish and run back to the healer he would have survived.

There were lots of things they did wrong tactically that could have turned the battle. I have now checked the forums for other 'problem' encounters and will be keeping an eye on those encounters marked as potential killers.

In the end I don’t want to do this to punish the players. I want to do it to stop the idea of profit by sacrifice. People shouldn’t be thinking well I’ll use this character until level X where my SUPERMEGAAWESOME dazzling display character works optimally or my druids pet gets its size increase or I’ll spend all this characters gold on his weapon then I’ll kill that character and loot that weapon with my guy who just spent all his gold on his armour and shield.

Vexous wrote:


Couple things here. It sounds like a lot of dying is going on and your crew feel like they have no hope of living, hence the desire to not get attatched to characters headed to the meatgrinder of your game. "Just roll up a new one, the DM is gonna kill us no matter what we do, at least this way we'll finally get some decent gear..." You may want to tone it down a touch. I'm not at the table so I can't say for sure but when the party stops caring about staying alive you're headed in the wrong direction.
The other point is maybe you shouldn't allow new characters at all. Go REAL old school. Someone dies, the party needs to get him back alive or move on without that player. Die this week, don't bother showing up next week....unless we can rez you.

Spoilers regarding book 2 of carrion crown:

Technically only 3 characters have been killed in combat. The rogue retired due to roleplaying and undead hunter (a mix of several classes) due to making a sub optimal build and wanting a chance to try again (He played it for only one very memorable session)

The barbarian player opted to have his character die after realising his math error with hp after the fight with Vorkstag and Grine. Most likely had he calculated correctly then the party would have healed him more and he would have survived.

The trolls at the gate of book 2 caused the death of the magus and paladin. The party went in loud which got the attention of the boss troll as well. 3 trolls are really bad news even if the worst of them is using a 2d8 crossbow with a not spectacular attack bonus. And when the magus goes invisible, dashes past the two trolls and aggravates the boss troll into melee it caused havoc on the battle field.

Though all these character changes have happened within 3 sessions so it may be that they have that feeling of impending doom. I’ll keep that in mind and if the players feel that way in our talk I’ll pull some punches for the rest of the dungeon. Give them a chance to get into their characters.

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Brannon Branduin Brighthammer wrote:
Are these all relatively new players? That makes a difference, too. I guess it comes down to doing what's fun and fair for everyone involved. If some players (I don't know how many you have) are trying to keep their characters alive while others are playing carelessly, there's clearly some sort of disconnect regard to expectations.

I suppose I should have brought up the party makeup. I have 5 players:

Alchemist (Original surviving member) - Casual player. Has her character planned out for a while and plans to head into Master Chymist. I have been helping to foreshadow her mental break. Much of the plot now is focused in on her since most of the newer characters don't yet have a heavy link to the plot this will change soon enough.

Sorcerer (Original surviving member Currently on hiatus) - Experienced role-player. Character has a terminal illness which was worked out pre start of the campaign with eventual retirement due to succumbing to the disease at the start of book 3. Currently resting in town due to staying up for several days straight using stimulants aggravating her illness. Player switched to a paladin and died helping the surviving party members escape from a troll attack. Player is now running a barbarian who is related to a dead character. He made the comments regarding replacement characters and already has two lined up.

Cavalier (3rd character for this player) - Experienced Player. Originally was playing a rogue who got arrested his next character was a magus who became lunch for trolls by running in under invisibility and fighting the advanced troll solo then trying to burning hands while being unprotected and being on less than 10hp. The other player who made the comments regarding replacement and has one lined up.

Gunslinger (3rd Character for this player) - Experienced player. Played a wonderful superstitious barbarian until he realised he had made a math error with his rage and should have been dead 20hp ago. Replaced with a mixed bag undead killer who retired due to sheer lack of undead but was endless fun for the short time he was there and will likely be showing up randomly again. Replaced with straight gunslinger. Player plans to retire from role-playing at the end of the year and shall be sorely missed.

Cleric (Newly joined to the campaign) – First game in Pathfinder. Player is just trying to learn the ropes of the system and is trying to get into her character. Her character is well built but she still doesn’t quite know everything she can do.

So it is surprisingly the experienced players that are the problem here.

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FireberdGNOME wrote:


It seems the issue is that the players don't care about the story. =/. Get them to care about character survival, and hopefully they will start to care about the campaign =)

I thought I had been. The party seemed really excited about the roleplaying aspects. I mean one player retired his character due to filling the travel time with the circus and having the party do some performances. He decided his character was going to join the circus and worked with me on a new character who the party started to interact with before he even made the switch.

It seems like the dungeon sections of the book which are light on roleplaying seem to make the characters forget what they are doing. I have already altered the dungeon to add roleplaying in and tie up some loose story items. I'm trying not to have the adventure have too many large sections of dungeons without plot.

asthyril wrote:


but the issue seems like that the new characters get more money based on the flat rules for how much money a character of a certain level should have. are you sure the amount of loot the players are getting is correct? or if you are consciously trying to keep money away from the characters are you changing the amount of money that chart gives when they make a new character?

Part of the problem is the adventure path. It does give the proper wealth as what was calculated in the Carrion Crown thread but a lot of it is in consumable items such as potions and alchemical items. The party seems to hang onto these items and forget their sale value leaving them short. IE they are sitting on about 12k gp worth of items that they never use but haven't sold.

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Hi all,

I've been running my first DMing game using the Carrion Crown adventure path. Things had been going fairly well through the first book and well into the second.

One player retired his character due to roleplaying aspects (He got arrested, if he hadn’t then he was leaving to join the circus) and he brought in a new character of the same level with funds equal to what a character of that level is meant to get.

This character was a bit stronger than the others because of being able to spend all his money on his own character rather than having shared party funds that people were withdrawing from as needed.

Soon afterwards 2 other characters were killed in combat including that same character who had just been brought in (Standing in the open while wielding fire is never a good thing with trolls around especially with an advanced one directing them "Kill the burny man!"). So more new characters came in at the same level and they got ready to go out again to rescue the bodies of their comrades. Pretty much straight away another character died and a new build came in and I wondered if I was being too harsh on the party.

However later on this player stated to me that he and another player who had died were of the opinion that since there was no real penalty for death they were just going to build characters to last a little while, let themselves die and bring in characters who were optimized to that level.

This idea of deliberately getting characters killed for profit and to bring in builds that are weak at low levels at their peak rubs me the wrong way and feels like a snub to the players who struggle to keep their less optimized characters alive. It also really surprises me as both of these players are normally excellent role-players.

So I am trying to work out a way to curb this behaviour before it becomes a real problem for me.

I am considering running with the old school new characters start at average party level -1 to at least punish this kind of behaviour and promote actually trying to keep their characters alive. If a character leaves due to fully developed role-playing reasons then I won’t punish them for that.

Also I want to arrange to have a chat with the players in question and let them know my concerns. I am to let them know that planning character death as a for profit scheme seems like power gaming, something both of them have complained about in length in the past.

Death happens but I am surprised at how much of a difference it seems to make for the DM to suddenly have much stronger and optimized characters appear essentially from nowhere. Does anyone have any other advice or have come across this situation before?

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Because I'll summon one of my goons next to them and have them attack instead. At them my minion I'm right behind you!

Seriously though the only character I've had without some form of ranged weapon was my 7 dex lore oracle with the blind curse (Done mostly for amusement to have a stumbling and bumbling melee combatant who always seemed to get lucky thanks to sidestep secret)

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