The day of "these evil firearms pirates are destroying an industry" draws ever nearer.
The stealth rules have me a little confused, when it comes to movement. Specifically with how it interacts with the us of
SRD said wrote:
Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. You can move up to half your normal speed and use Stealth at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.
So does this mean
a, A rogue with a move of 30' uses a move action to move upto 15' in a turn without stealth penalty. If he uses a second move action, to move a further 15', he cannot stealth; as within the turn he has moved a distance equal to or greater than his movement value
b. A rogue with a move of 30' uses a move action to move upto 15' in a turn without stealth penalty. If he uses a second move action, to move a further 15', he can make a stealth check without penalty, because he has moved half his movement rate or less, on each of his actions.
Scott Betts wrote:
Perhaps a corollary to the SWF is needed: Creating a game which may encourage players to develop a mastery of and appreciation for its mechanics does not necessarily mean that said game does not also encourage its players to develop strong character development and interaction as well.
I agree with the base principle, but I think it is worth noting that neither 4E, nor pathfinder actually do have robust systems for encouraging strong characters.
Wraith: The Oblivion for instance included two core systems, upon which your characters very survival depended, which existed to embed your character in the world. Passions and fetters.
You had to pursue your passions to regain one of you resources.
If you did not protect your fetters, horrible things happened to your character.
This on top of the universal willpower return mechanism from all oWOD games.
Now, Neither 4e nor pathfinder go out of their way to prevent non-combat related character development, but it is pretty laughable to say they do anything to support it, in the way that the indie scene and some WW books do and did.
Steve Geddes wrote:
I have played a pretty wide range of games over the years.
I like Pathfinder and DnD well enough but I don't go out of my way to play them, same goes for a lot of the other generic systems I have played.
The games I dream about playing again are all deeply tied to their setting, either through their mechanics in an explicit manner, or through deep and immersive setting material in the core book.
- Wraith: The Oblivian
Oh I realise all that you guys have had it rough too, don't worry ;)
You live in Tennessee.
To my knowledge, you've never lived in the United Kingdom.
You didn't have to live through her reign of terror.
I guess you don't have your nations hands stained with blood thanks to her cozying up to Augusto Pinochet.
To my knowledge your not living through an era dominated by her ghost, in which unlike many of our neighbour, the rich are getting richer and richer, while the rest of us get poorer.
With all due respect, perhaps if anyone is going to take your advice to "Then don't post, and/or hide the thread", it would be better off you.
Setting aside old milk snatcher's many less desirable characteristics, is this really a time when we should be spending money on a state funeral, for a millionaire.
I know the cost is a drop in the ocean, but seriously it is more than a little gauling that within a week of a deeply regressive "bed room" tax we have it anounced that we will be paying for this.
I can suggest dragons on the hill, I played there briefly, when I moved back to London for a little while.
I think "I am uncomfortable being in a position of authority, when your judgement is impared, if you wish to drink, that is fine, but I cannot include you in the game while you do" would be a reasonable position for DM to hold.
Similarly, "I do not wish a narcotics to be consumed in my home", is reasonable reason for a host to ban alcohol in his house.
If you as a player, I think the most reasonable positions is "I am made uncomfortable by alcohol consumption. I would rather we did not drink while gaming. It is your choice if you do, or do not, but if you do, I will have to withdraw. Your choice."
Currently my 'gaming room' is the deepest, darkest part of a pub called 'trotters' here in colchester.
So far as table space goes, it it lacking, but we have a good beer supply, food, comfortable seats and a relatively quiet setting where few people look at us like weirdos, which is an improvement on past pub games.
My ideal gaming room would be:
-10m(east/west) x 8m(north/south) x 5m, leading. With Windowless, sound proofing in walls, and two doors for entry and exit. Walls should be well insulated.
-Timber framed building, with exposed timber, rendered walls coloured a deep orangie-brown.
- Heavy Oak Doors
- Flooring should be oak floor boards with under floor heating. Room should have stable temperature pre-sets for night and day.(ideally heating should be provided by ground source heat pump and solar )
- Lighting should all be low energy/high lux LED, however the system should be highly controllable, allowing preprogrammed lighting conditions appropriate for different moods and activities. Preferably voice activated.
- Sound. There should be a high quality sound system built into the room, allowing a sound board to be used in running games with sound effects that take advantage of surround sound. There should also be good recording facilities.
- east wall is a gallery space for my and my girlfriends art collection (she already has original art from hellblazer and wolverine origins, while my collection is less geekdom focused)
- West wall is a workspace. Surface computing area for mood board and note taking while doing game prep.
- north wall is shelving. This is where I would keep my war gaming stuff. Armies and terrain. Additionally, this is where I would keep my 3D dungeon terrain and any physical gaming books I was using for a current game.
-East and west walls, are physical library space.East wall is gaming material, plus comics, and fantasy and science fiction literature. West wall is reference materials and art books
- North wall is a work station for modelling and miniature painting.
Mmm... that is an interesting question. I think it is a very cool system, but it is fragile. People have to go in with a clear idea of the spirit of the game AND the intended power level. If someone really sets out to be very powerful, then the system becomes very rocket tag like.
However, when people get it, and don't push at the systems to hard, it is an amazing system.
If their was a small group of interested UK time zone compatible players, i might be convinced to run some CP2020 via Roll20
As it happens, until fairly recently, Shadowrun sans magic was my go to suggestion for Shirow-punk.
I also get rather confused when people suggest shadowrun is rules lighter or less prone to gun porn than CP2020. It is my personal opinion that the rules of CP2020 are much simpler and more stripped down.
i have tried to learn shadow run so many times, and cannot keep its rules in my head(though CP2020 is in their pretty well.)
DM Aron Marczylo wrote:
You realises it is a deck of playing cards right?
DM Aron Marczylo wrote:
You might consider Interface Zero for savage worlds for Oedo.
It is more cinematic than most CP systems and fits better with the Japanese take on Cyberpunk than games like CP2020 does. Add to that that if you back theInterface Zero kickstarter you can get yourself all the existing material in PDF, along with a print version of the core for a very small amount of money. You would need a copy of savage worlds though.
We are friends. But we are friends who's core connection is gaming. We met through it, and our friendship developed from it.
The core reason many of the above are in there is that we want to remain friends.
Some however are in their because in the past, we have had players in the group who didn't follow them as a matter of course.
We changed venue relatively recently, in part because two players, no longer in the group, brought their own food and drinks into the pub we where playing at the time, and earned us a bad rep. I think it is maybe the only formal rule, spoken rule amongst them. Though I suspect if you asked any player in the group if one of those rules was an unspoken rule of the group, they would agree with it.
I also play with other friends, where their are no such rules in place(it is a different, harder edged friendship dynamic, the kind where we take the piss out of each other constantly), and while I like seeing them, the gaming itself can be a little nightmarish.
What is the social contract at your table?
Is it unspoken or is it formal?
How do you enforce it?
The social contract from my CoC gaming group.
- We are playing in a public space, don't embaress the rest of us.
- We are playing in a pub, feel free to drink, but moderate your in take.
- Please don't smoke around the rest of us (A we are playing in an enclosed public space, it is illegal for you to do so, and B, it is common decency not to.
- The pub is Geek friendly, not only do we game here, but it is an Esports spectator venue. Don't bring in your own food or drink, they let us use the space for free on the understanding we buy food and drink.
-Take time to answer questions from the public, about what it is that we are doing.
- We have gathered to game, and to socialise. Lets not let either dominate the day.
- What we play is a group decision, no one is in charge of the group.
- The person running the game has put in effort to prepare something for you to enjoy, do them the service of playing by their rules, and within the spirit of the kind of game they are running.
- The players are trusting you to run a game they will enjoy, do your best to not abuse that trust. Show no favouritism, nor abuse your power to settle scores.
- When pitching a game. Be as honest as you can about the nature of the game your putting forwards. It is not always possible to be totally truthful in a game setup, but be as sure as you can that any lie you tell, will not upset the players.
Mmmm...can I get a sanity check from other observes? My responce to Kevin's comments above where proportional and relevant right? I didn't just go off on a tangent, having completely misunderstood what he had written.
Am I right in thinking that the implication here is that
A, I get a "woodie" from killing PCs
B, I show favoratism
AND regardles of A OR B
C, He thinks that I scalp hunt my players PCs.
I point you to the above.
okay, I assume you mean this?
4) Agreed. I'd want to work with the PCs. I find this to be the absolute worst when the DM's also playing favourites. "Here. My girlfriend will be the gold dragon, my best friend will be the cloud giant, my best friend's wife can be the wartroll with PC stats, and you can play this elf commoner." Gee, thanks.
Not sure why your pointing me at this. Each template for the above mentioned game Gave a bonus to +2 bonus to either pow, int, edu or dex(the four most powerful statistics) and a total of plus 40% in certain skills key to the campaign.
They where assigned to players randomly so far as I remember.
I don't know what I have said that makes you think your opinions of favouratism.
@Zombieneighbours -- ... It's a dickish move if you're purposely going after a certain player, and are too happy about killing off the characters on a regular basis.
I mean, shouldn't the point of a campaign be to have a player's character last throughout an entire campaign, NOT seeing how many characters you can kill off before your players finally have enough and leave your game?
It is a two year campaign of Call of Cthulhu and only three investigators have died, gone insane or otherwise left.
Of those, one tried to alter mythos magic, and rather than just kill them outright(a serious suggestion I have seen from some of the best writers in Mythos gaming), I gave chances for success, and escape with life and sanity intact, and more than a few chances to pull back from the attempt. They choose to continue, the dice ruled against them, and died horribly. One committed suicide, without prompting from me.The last was arrested as described above, and all but handed himself in.
That said, no the point should not be "to have a player's character last throughout an entire campaign". The only point is to have fun. In Call of Cthulhu, that can be achieved in many ways, such as solving interesting mysteries, or the reproduction of the feel of certain Mythos stories. Death and madness is a part of Mythos gaming. It is the eventual end of all Investigators if they don't turn away from the truths of the Mythos
I don't fear that joy I take in a good Investigator kill is likely to drive away my players, because experience has shown me that my players rather enjoy it as well.
This is the very worst time you can possibly kill of a player character. It doesn't solve the underlying problem, and breeds animosity. The list of players who would sign up for "I'll kill your characters if i think your being a dick" is far smaller than the list of players who will sign up for "It is going to be a really hard slog through a death trap dungeon, with the difficulty turned up to eleven."
DM's shouldn't be proudly putting notches in their belts.
Again, not doing this.
CoC, I've played. A lot my friends have too. It's always hosted at the local convention in all of it's incarnations (Tech, original, etc). If they're not dead by the end of the one-shot, they consider it to be a relatively bad game.
One shots play differently to campaigns.
Now over all I kind of feel like your shifting the goal posts here.
2) Evil cackling and giggling whenever they know full well that they're about to kill a character off in a battle that none of us had a chance of winning.
but now your saying
...seeing how many characters you can kill off...
I will happily take great pleasure in killing, maiming or driving beyond the point of sanity any character ever. I'll do it especially in encounters they have little chance of winning. But they signed up for it. They know what I am about, that their PCs are fair game if they make bad decisions and that I sign post unwise courses of action in my descriptions, plot and set up.
Josh M. wrote:
I need them to breath life into the characters
I very how I use pre-gens. In the case of our current Cthulhu game I used templates which set up key themes, relationships with other (PCs and NPCs), but leaves almost complete autonomy on stats, and allows players to define their characters beyond certain key facts.
Six such sheets where written up, they interwove the investigators with each other, and various NPCs and plot seeds.
The character who populate that game, I am informed by their players are near universally counted amongst their favourite characters ever. Even on player, who has often told me he would never in a million years have chosen to play a gay war poet, loves his character Donald Finley greatly.
I've had my fair share of compliments form the group for the game, but hey that could be so much smoke being blown.
Instead, I judge campaign success by two metrics:
1, length. At Twoish years and still going, I feel it fair to say that the game must be doing pretty well, especially as I have seen most of the players walk out of games they didn't like
2, anecdotes and in joke generated.
Tomb of horrors.
Fantasy roleplaying games have always had a very strong strand of "iron mannism". Adventures of the death trap dungeon variety, such as tomb of horrors, have been popular for years, there is a very vocal subset of posters who on this very board who loath the idea of adventures or DMs soft balling them. While not all pathfinder or cthulhu games play out with the death and destruction turned up to 11, there is a strong strange of it in both. In Pathfinder it takes more of a "s$#$, son, you should no better that to trust a room that looks like a perfectly maintained parlour in a dungeon. Time to roll up a new character.", while in cthulhu it is much more "your willingly sticking your nose into this, what the hell did you expect?", but encounters like The shadow clock keep getting written.
I don't really see taking a certain maniacal joy in character death/insanity as a 'dick move' either. Just before Christmas in my Cthulhu game, a character was retired after a bout of indefinite insanity.
It all started with a nasty shock, a hoard of ghouls in a shop basement and flight form the scene at the end of the session before. One investigator was pushed over the threshold into indefinite insanity.
The new session started normally, the aftermath of the botched burglary, research on the larger plot, and snapshots on the Investigators lives, including the now mad investigator romancing and bedding a young lady. This scene was detail rich for the surroundings, the partner, and much else besides(including him doing little sketches of her) but the seduction itself was largely painted with broad strokes.
Shortly their after, the Investigator in question, along with one of the other Investigators where looking into a disappearance. During their investigation, they located a murder scene. Both investigators slowly and methodically made their way into the flat, and slowly, but surely as I described the scene, the players got quieter and quieter, as I described their entrance, the scene, the cannibalised corpse. I gave one last detail, and the other investigator went down stairs, got the landlady and phoned the police to arrest the insane investigator.
That last detail, had been the small pile of sketches on the bed side table. The victim, was the date, and the reason that the players had gotten quieter, was because they started to pick up on the repetition of details from the earlier scene.
I don't suppose it hurt that I had described repeatedly how the insane investigator was feeling very satisfied, and full bellied after a large breakfast.
Now every one at the table could see the delight on my face, and once the scene was done, I couldn't help but laugh and grin. No one in that group seemed to think it was a dick move. The characters retirement was voluntary, and while I got called a great many names by the Player, he is chewing at the bit for more.
Character death can be one of the great moments in role-playing, the pinnical of a character ark. Taking pleasure in that moment doesn't make you a 'dick'
Because reading a feat/spell/class feature out of context is almost pointless. It is the interaction of different materials that makes the magic happen, something that only has any chance of being understood with consideration, and time to reference everything happening in a group.
It is pretty easy for a player to keep their whole character in their head, but its pretty difficult for a GM to quickly absorb, understand and look of weird game breaking synergies across a full group, even when you stick with core only. Once you start adding in additional books it becomes increasingly hard.
I can understand people not wanting to have to do that extra work, so that the game they have put a fair amount of time into preparing has a chance of being fun.
I mostly trust to luck, and carefull selection of which games I run for which players. One player from my Cthulhu game, I would never invite to play either Pathfinder or CC2020 ever again, because it is his stated aim to 'break' both systems when he sits down to play those games. He as a similar view with Cthulhu, but with that system I am comfortable for him to do that to his hearts content(he is closed to madness right now...The man just doesn't know when to stop reading).
That would work fine, in a world where we didn't have a subset of anti-social players who consider it their right to make the most powerful character they possible can, regardless of setting, theme, their own concept, the concepts of other players, agreed power level of the game being played and any other concern, or if the system itself did not because of its complexity produce emergent properties in characters, where feats, class abilities and spells synogies in ways that produce significant spike in the power curve.
I've allowed all the splat books, and my Kingmaker hasn't broken yet Sissyl. They just started Blood for Blood last session.
I don't believe that for a second.
Kingmakers breaks at the drop of a hat. The power level is very low for a 15 point game, and any significant amount of optimisation allows the most of the campaign to be roflstomped by even remotely competent players.
I pretty regularly run using Pre-gens.
Simple fact is that this approach means that I can build from the ground up, campaigns which hinge upon the PCs. Not just their success, but who they are, who their friends are, what their childhood was like.
I can get some of this without pre-gens, but the results are many times better with them, than without.
Before the fine castocalypse, there was a female gaunt's ghost. There are two female members of Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers. So it isn't fair to say their are none, but they could be a lot more common.
GW does plenty of bad things. Plenty.
But please, have a go at them for stuff that is actually bad about them, like the trade mark and IP trolling.
GW still produce some of the best miniatures in the world.
Modelling is part of the war gaming hobby, I cannot believe you are seriously complaining about assembly, for many collectors, the modelling and painting is the primary part of the hobby.
And frankly the idea that they are price gorging is very silly.
Back when I first started gaming, 30 identical plastic halbardiers cost somewhere in the region of £40(and £40 was a considerably larger amount of money back then) They where not even great models, but they still represented a very good deal, price wise, compaired to almost any other model set out there.
Now £40ish will by you 40 highly customisable human males, suitable for game roles from bandit to malitiaman, with a vast number of possible component combinations. Their still plastic, but the end result better than the sculpts of many reaper mini metal sculpts.
*Blinks* Okay...Very puzzled now. I could have sworn that it was still on the books. Very glad that its not.
I have had a thing for magic lanterns since my days of playing Wraith: the Oblivion. It is a love that has been rekindled by the resent Kingdom Death: Monster kickstarter.
I might in the near future have a chance to build a new character in our 4e game.
I am thinking about maybe playing a swordmage next, and given that I will likely be entering an established game with a little bit of my own loot, it would be a great time to scratch that magic lantern itch. Are their any items which either are lanterns or which could easily be re skinned to be.
Oh, the carrying of said lantern is a pretty fundimental part of what makes them cool, so your average hovering magic lantern that follows you around, isn't really what I am looking for.
Actually we have been ahead of most counties on this, what with having civil partnerships since 2004, which provided nearly all the benefits of marriage.
That said, this bill is still a massive milestone, as it equalise the legal standing of gay and straight marriages, and provides ALL of the benefits and responsibilities of marriage.
Time to really start turning our attention to Section 28