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Zolthux's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 310 posts (315 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 1 alias.


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I actually started playing a Sorcadin in PFS

My original stat array was

Str 13
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14+2 racial = 16

I went Half Elf, replacing the Skill Focus with Exotic Weapon Proficiency (thanks to Ancestral Arms), grabbing an Elven Curve Blade as my Weapon. Level 1 feat was Weapon Finesse. Traits were Magical Knack and Warrior of old (+2 CL up to HD and +2 initiative, respectively)

I opted for 13 str to qualify for Power Attack. Ironically enough, at level 3, I haven't taken it yet.

Level 1 I did Sorcerer (Draconic, Golden). I used the tattooed Sorcerer Archetype to boost spells of the Evocation school (that way I can make my buffs and replace claws with a thrush familiar (bonus to diplomacy, and i now have a +2 to perception which is a class skill thanks to my bloodline with an additional +2 racial). Starting Spells were Mage Armor and Color Spray

Level 2 nothing much changed. +1 BAB, +1 Will, one more spell per day

Level 3 I took a level Divine Hunter Paladin to get Precise Shot for free. Level 3 feat was Toughness. Also gave me at will Detect Evil and 1/day Smite Evil (+3 attack/AC and +1 damage, bypassing all DR)

I also mustered enough gold to make my weapon a +1. (2300 gold inc. the price of making the weapon masterwork)

anyway, at level 3 I have 25 HP (which is low, but next level I get like 9 hp, so that should help a bit), my attack bonus is +6 (+9 when smiting, and I always try to flank), my damage is 1d10+2 (kind of low, I know), and my AC is 17 (when using Mage Armor, which is an issue).

So right off the bat, we can see the main pitfall is the lack of AC and low HP. So far I havent died though


Discomancer wrote:
With the errata stating SLAs can stand in for PrC prereqs (like the one for EK), do you plan to update this guide with a section devoted to races/classes that can get around the five levels of caster class requirement?

I would love to have the time to keep working on this guide. I'm sure I will go back to it someday (especially now that i have toys like Scarred Witch Doctor, and Paragon Surge)

@Mythic and Salazzar:
I might give Gunslinger a second look. When I first wrote this, Ultimate Combat was relatively new and I had not looked at Gunslinger 1 (or 2) that in depth when it came to archetypes. Being able to replace a stat with another to lower MAD is nice though

@suichimo
Ranged Gish is a thing, but I remember writing somewhere that the focus would be on melee. Though I would not discard ranged attacks. Especially if you take 2 levels in Paladin and take the Divine Hunter Archetype to get Precise Shot for free. Ideally this helps your ray spells but yes, you can use a bow.

Moreover, you have a decent enough BAB that you can do multiple shots per round and if you somehow have the feat to spare, there's always Deadly Aim or Rapid Shot. Also, if you use a tatooed sorcerer with Magical Knack and an Ioun stone, you can have your caster level be your character level +1, which will help when casting greater magic weapon (Please someone double check if this is legal, given that Magical Knack may prevent you from going over your caster level.)

@+5 Toaster:
Advanced Race came out way after my initial draft. But It's an option i'd love to see. Even more so now that we can use half orcs for it.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Oh I get it, this is one of those troll topics right?

anyway, half elf Oracle/Sorcerer can outclass the wizard in terms of casting versatility. Yolo


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:

Human wizards will get a ton of spells. I honestly think Human sorcerer is more powerfull.

The wizard can use metamagic as a standard instread of full round action. Abusing metas can amek the wizard more powerfull.

Free form Metamagic is much better than metamagic as standard action. Being able to cast the silent spell you *need* instead of the silent spell *you prepared* greatly increase the power of Silent Spell.

Exactly. There's a reason GMs hate sorcerers who know silent and still spell.

And I think we are overlooking the bloodline powers too much here.

The level 1 ray is horrible, yes, but it can be used 3+cha times per day, which is like having an entire array of "level 1/2 spells" (stronger than cantrips, worse than level 1 spells)

Even then, some level 1 powers are pretty damn good: Tanglevine/tremor, Arcane Bond, Horrific Visage, Thunderstaff/Cold Steel (for the gish or support sorcerer), Touch of Destiny/Rage, Laughing Touch/Beguiling voice (spammable, no save "skip a turn" button), Protoplasm

The level 3 power is some sort of defensive thing, which is always welcome

the level 9 power is usually more offensive and is in the lines of being an emergency fireball of sorts: deals 1d6/lvl, and offers at save at the DC of ~your highest spell.

And then there are the bloodlines, which enhance a certain type of spell, usually quite nicely.

But I think sorcerer is a better dipping class, as it has some good powers which don't need to scale with sorcerer level, doesn't need to deal with buying spells to learn while prestiging, and the bloodline arcana does not need to scale up either.


nah phyrexian is machine/body horror

the artifact zombie creatures from Alara are a better representation


so, what's the interaction between Scorching Ray and fire resistance?

is it resisted once because it's one casting of a spell, or is it once per ray?


Yeah, i use the haunted curse for the character's theme. Among other things, most of the spells are modeled to have some sort of ghostly flavor to it: Cause Fear used to make the target temporarily see the ghosts, Spiritual weapon has a ghost flash for a moment, dissapearing and leaving the weapon floating, etc etc


Sorcadin has slightly higher-than-medium BAB (Pally2/Sorc8/EK10 has a 16 BAB, that last +1 attack gets buffed gish a quickened true strike if you want), also has really good saves. However, you cap at 8th level spells, and your caster level is HD-1 (assuming magical knack)

Fighter/Wizard has the most synergy of class abilities, and is widely regarded as the best way to go

Sohei/Empyrial has a slightly lower BAB (due to the monk level), but can pump everything into one stat (wisdom) and raise his AC, Casting Stat, To-hit (if using a guided weapon), and has perception as a class skill.


you can just buy some allnight, no?


Sorcerer. The idea of a being having innate natural powers coming from some ancient entity/event lends itself for a lot of RP


Dual Cursed Oracle


make sure to get a silver smite bracelet.


What race are you playing?

And abyssal has support for summoning with the bloodline and getting augment summoning at level 7 (although I think this might be too late if your game only goes up to 9th level)

Also, I dont know if arcane strike is a good idea, This bloodline doesn't seem that great for fighting in melee, you have low BAB, cant wear armor, and you are only proficient with simple weapons. At least imo.

Anyway, since you are core only,

i would recommend spell focus (conjuration), probably just get greater fort as your bonus feat

other feats to get:

Improved Initiative, toughness, piercing spell (i like it more than spell penetration + greater)


wouldnt darkleaft leather armor have -5% asf? the way i understood it, it lowers the asf by 10% to a min of 5.

the reason i suggested focusing on the shield is that it can be used as a weapon as well, allowin usage of a shield and weapon, while still freeing the spellcasting hand.

I guess a celestial shield solves these issues.


Zombie Constructs need to be a thing.


Half Elf

Skill Focus: Knowledge
Eldritch Heritage: Arcane

Paragon Surge

???

Profit


I think he wants to stick to wizard without multi/prestige-classing


The answer is both.

An elf druid is proficient with the longbow, even if druids typically aren't

Similarly, a half orc sorcerer is not proficient with martial weapons, as they only gain simple weapon proficiency. However, they are proficient with falchion and Greataxe, because they are half orcs.


Ranger dual wielding Klars


^this

you might as well forgo any attempt and trying to be anything more than a straight up blaster and embrace it

So do Crossblooded Draconic/Primal 1 (any element, i suggest acid) and 19 wizard levels.

Blast your opponents for ridiculous damage


sorcerer.

You can get Augment Summoning as a bonus feat at level 7, plus the arcana gives DR, plus level 15 thing....plus str bonuses for whatever reason :P


I think they are supposed to be race-only. Though some spells (namely paragon surge) are personal and only used on members of a specific race


Hey guys,

So I had a thought last night, I was thinking incorporating in my guide if people think it's a good enough idea.

Regarding Armor vs casting, a Klar is like a fancy spiked shield, except that the shield part is treated as a light shield and the weapon part is a one handed melee weapon (not light Source).

Therefore, it is possible to use it as both a weapon and shield with the feat Improved shield bash (you hit someone with it, and don't lost the AC bonus)

As a weapon, it's a 1d6 X2 one handed martial weapon
As a shield, it's a +1 to AC with 5% ASF

Now, the (flavor) description of the klar says

Traditionally a Shoanti blade bound to the skull of a horned spirestalker (a breed of Storval Plateau giant gecko), in recent years the armorers of southern Varisia have started crafting these bladed shields from iron.

meaning that it is possible to make the shield part from metal.

So how about getting a mithril Kral, getting improved shield slam, and enhancing the shield part for more AC, while supplementing the armor slot with mage armor (and later on, bracers)

For 26k, you can get yourself a +5 Mithril Kral, which grants an AC bonuc of +6 and no ASF chance. Moreover, combined with Mage armor, this is a nice +10 boost to AC. Or spend another 25k on a +5 Haramaki for an AC bonus of +12

The downside is that you have a weapon that hits only for 1d6, and will crit only 5% of the time. On the other hand, now you have an actual AC value, and don't need to waste your swift action to cast spells.

Would this work? thoughts anyone?


Primary and Secondary Natural attacks are defined by the type of attack

Refer to the table here:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Natural-Attacks


My Oracle just goes by "Nomad"

Even the character sheet name just says "The Nomad"


I don't feel like checking WBL and item prices atm, but can't you do this around level 11 by buying a robe of eldritch heritage to make your effective level 15?

So by level 11 you have like, spell focus (conjuration), augment summoning (which you got at level 7), and superior summons (which you take at level 9).

Hell, just take spell focus Necromancy and Skeletal summoner so you can summon Fiendish Skeletal dinosaurs


I should add: Although Arcane armor training and still spell seem redundant, you can't just rely on always stilling spells (as that will essentially send you back 2 caster levels worth of casting since your spells are at +1 level), at higher levels, still spell is awesome for stuff like spell critical and activating arcane strike, and following with a scorching ray


Core only?

Try a Fighter/Wizard.
Lv1: F1, BAB 1, Favored Enemy (your choice), Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Falchion), Toughness
Lv2: W1(Conjurer, banning Necromancy and Enchantment), BAB 1, Spells, Familiar (Something with flying is always good).
LV3: W2 BAB 2, Feat: Arcane Armor Training (Get mithril chainshirt, till then, just cast mage armor)
Lv4: W3
Lv5: W4 BAB 3, Feat: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Lv6: W5: Bonus Feat: Still Spell
Lv7: EK1: BAB 4, Feats: Augment Summoning, Arcane Strike
Lv8: EK2: BAB 5
Lv9: EK3: BAB 6/1, Feat: Weapon Specialization (Falchion)
Lv10: EK4, BAB: 7/2
Lv11: W6: BAB: 8/3, Feat: Quicken Spell (for true strike, or any other level 1 buff if you dont mind risking a 10% arcane spell failure)
Lv12: EK5: BAB 9/4 Critical Focus (I'm assuming by this time your weapon is keen and you are using Greater Weapon Focus to keep it enhanced)
Lv13: EK6 BAB 10/5, Feat: Improved Familiar (tbh, you should take it earlier...I guess you can swap this with Quicken Spell, and at this point you can quicken level 2 spells)
Lv15: EK 8, BAB: 12/7/2, Greater Weapon Focus (Falchion)
Lv16: EK 9, BAB 13/8/3, Feats: Bleeding Critical
Lv17: EK 10, BAB: 14/9/5, Feat: Iron Will
Lv18: W7, BAB: 14/9/5
Lv19: W8, BAB: 15/10/5, Feat: Improved Iron Will
Lv20: F2, BAB: 16/11/6/1, Feat: Penetrating Strike

This is Core Only. You can cast level 9 spells by level 19 (if you go that far)

You hit your opponents quite hard (You ignore part of the DR and are adding a bunch of damage thanks to power attack, arcane strike, and such)

The last level is of fighter for both the extra feat (P Strike) and for the extra attack (which can be quickened)

Your character loves to crit, what with a high crit weapon, a critical feat, and spell critical


you can take swift and free actions in between attacks


The wings power is overrated imo

Yeah you get to permanently fly, but you're gonna have a bad Fly check unless you invest ranks in it (Sorcerer and fighter get 2 per level)

At least with overland flight you add half your CL to your bonus.


EK is better suited for classes that don't get big abilities every level that scale, in other words, level 9 spell casters. EK does not mix well with casters that cap at level 6 spells simply because you are losing way too much. The slightly higher BAB and slight drop in caster level does not justify all those abilities being lost, imo.

If you want, you can probably get a similar return by dipping 2 levels in fighter to have 2 extra feats, +2 BAB, a bump to fort saves all at the cost of 2 caster levels.

Oh and while we talk about dimension agility, please tell me there's some errata that make these combat feats :<


You missed the part where it was core only, though


Draconic Disciple is another good alternative, if you don't mind sacrificing spellcasting for melee combat.

Core-wise, Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Draconic Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight 10 is the way to go.

you lose 4 casting levels (Meaning that you cap at level 8 spells, and your CL drops by 4, but you do have a BAB of 17 and a +4 to str.


@Psion, there is no need to ask for a GM for that

You can weapon focus/spec rays since they are considered weapons for the purpose of feats and such


oh and since you want to have some ranged fighting capabilities, thanks to the spell greater magic weapon all you need is a composite longbow (with appropriate strength rating, of course) for a magical weapon.

Alternatively, you can use rays (of the scorching kind...hint hint)

Finally, you can drop a bonus combat feat up there somewhere and take deadly aim.


I made a core-only EK for my friend's son a few months ago. I don't have my computer on me at the moment, so I can't give you specifics. But here is a quick attempt off the top of my head. I'm suggesting this character based on the assumption you favor your fighting skills over your casting

Half Elf Fighter 1/Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline) 9/Eldritch Knight 10

BAB: 15/10/5 (1+4+10)

Base Saves:
Fort 10 (2+3+5)
Reflex 6 (0+3+3)
Will 9 (0+6+3)

Caster Level: 18
Effective Sorcerer level (for purpose of powers): 9
Effective Fighter level (for purpose of feat prereqs): 11

Stat Array: Str > Cha > Con > Dex > Int > Wis

Feats by level: (* = bonus feat)
1/F1 - Power Attack*, Weapon Focus (Falchion)
2/S1 - Eschew Materials*
3/S2 - Arcane Armor Training [make sure to get a mithril chainshirt]
5/S4 - Toughness
7/S5 - Iron Will
9/EK1 - Improved Familiar, Improved Initiative*
11/EK3 - Weapon Specialization (Falchion)
13/EK5 - Improved Iron Will, Arcane Strike (At this point it's +3 damage that can stack with your weapon spec)
15/EK7 - Quicken Spell (At this point you can use quickened true strike and quickened mirror image in battle)
17/EK9 - bleeding Critical
18/EK20 - EK gives you Spell Critical
19/S7 - Spell Focus Necromancy or Enchantment* (simply because they have the debuffs, you can also go evocation), Greater Weapon Focus
20/S8

So by level 20 you still have access to a level 9 spell, you have decent bonuses to hit with Weapon Focus + Improved Weapon focus and your 3/4 BAB. You can also cast Greater Magic Weapon to have a +4 weapon, opening up your gold for other stuff (I still suggest you invest 8000 gold on making a keen falchion)

Armor-wise, you have a mithril chainshirt which you can enchant to +5 for a total of +9 armor, and mix it up with a ring of protection, amulet of nat armor, and stuff like mirror image or displacement spells (these 2 spells can be cast without any arcane spell failure, as they have no somatic components)

Your Swift action can be made up of 3 different options depending on your playstyle:

- Arcane strike for up to +4 damage to each attack (and I'm assuming you will have your 3 attacks + haste attack)
- Quickened True Strike to make sure that third attack hits (again, no somatic components to cast this spell)
- Spell Critical on a critical confirmation (which also has the bleeding critical effect). I suggest a power word or something like that that, again, has no S components (and a lot of high level spells fall under this category for some reason)


Short Answer: No

Long answer: you get a free touch attack the turn you cast, after that, attempting to touch is subject to the usual rules for melee attacks,

but let's say you are trying to touch someone as part of a full round action

Well, activating visions of madness requires a standard action to activate, just like pretty much every cleric touch power (and sorcerer bloodline touches, etc)

Therefore, you would need a standard action to touch your opponent with your charge, and a standard action to activate your vision of madness.


Superior Summoning


I used to have a paladin 2/Verdant sorcerer gish who used tanglevine and would do stuff like true strike -> tanglevine trip or disarm to get giant boosts


In addition to? Quicken spell counts as one, and you get one free metamagic feat at level 5.

But yeah, 15 is too high level to have it be that useful


Cold Napalm wrote:
Blave wrote:
Cold Napalm wrote:
Zolthux wrote:

Quickened True Strike does not care bout somatic components and gives a +20 to one attack (specifically the secondary/tertiary one)

Wrong...it gives +20 on your NEXT attack. You do not get to pick when the bonus kicks in. Kinda why it is kind of a meh spell. Even for an EK, you generally still hit your first shot unless your completely unbuffed.
But you can take a Swift Action during your full attack so you could actually just cast it before the second or third attack.
Geh...missed your talking about quickened. Yeah, that is assuming no AS tho. You can't AS and quicken the same round. Not sure spending a 5th level spell for one hit and not using AS is worth it.

I mentioned perfecting it so you only use up level 1 spell slots :O

but yeah i dont feel like doing math, so it boils down to asking if the damage from arcane strike > the damage from an extra guaranteed hit


OH and if you don't care much for true strike, you can always take still spell and cast perfect intensified quickened shocking grasps, or use those 3 weapon focus/specialization feats to get Weapon focus + specialization (ray), and point blank master, and hit for 12d6+4 (or 12, depending on GM) Scorching rays as part of your full round attack actions.


Quickened True Strike does not care bout somatic components and gives a +20 to one attack (specifically the secondary/tertiary one)

with the books youre using, I think Arcane Armor Training is not a bad idea. Simply because you can't rely on dervish dance, and still spell sets you back in spells. Also, remember you're going to be behind on BAB.

Consider this:

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 9 (level 15 because that was the cap expectation)

Stats: Same as above

Level 1: Fighter: 3 feats (Additional Traits:Reactionary, Magical Knack, Weapon Focus (Falchion), Power Attack)

Level 2: Wizard 1, get the familiar (Compsognatus, if that's not available, Get something that flies like a raven), transmutation school, barring necromancy and enchantment (You lose out on Heroism and a couple spells though. Probably just prepare true strike and something with either a long duration, OR true strike. Alternatively, cast Mage Armor, and prepare whatever spell you want.

Level 3: Wiz 2, Toughness

Level 5: Wiz 4, Arcane Armor Training. At this point you should have enough gold to buy yourself a mithril chain shirt, possibly +1 (it's only 2100 with the enhancement). Your bonus feat can be a metamagic feat.

Level 6: Wiz 5, consider reach spell, piercing spell, or Heighten Spell

Level 7: EK1, you get 2 feats: with a BAB of 4, Power attack just scaled up. So get Furious Focus. For your second feat, Take Extend Spell (doubling the duration for the low investment of +1 spell level is pretty awesome, hell by this point Shield lasts for 14 minutes. You can cast it before you enter a dungeon)

Level 9: EK3, Take Improved Familiar

Level 11: EK 5, Take Weapon Specialization (Falchion), Also take Intensified Spell, use it for shocking grasp and the occasional blast spell.

Level 13: EK7 Take Quicken Spell.

Level 15: EK9 Take Spell Perfection (true strike). At this point you should be near the end of the campaign. You have a BAB of 12/7/2, but you can make the third attack of the turn a +20, before adding any bonuses due to stats, Greater Magic Weapon, whatever. Also, when you hit your opponent, you can choose to discarge your intensified Shocking Grasp for 10d6 extra damage. Also, take Greater Weapon Focus.

Level 16: Eldritch Knight 10. At this point You can do your first 2 attacks (at +14/9), then if you crit, use spell critical to use a power word (which cost 2 spell slots, but can end the fight), OR cast a perfect quickened true strike (costing you only a level 1 spell slot) and guarantee a hit.

This is off the top of my head. This is for a more balanced gish.

Personally, I'd do away with weapon spec and weapon focus spells, but I know that missing is very very bad


Quickened True Strike does not care bout somatic components and gives a +20 to one attack (specifically the secondary/tertiary one)

with the books youre using, I think Arcane Armor Training is not a bad idea. Simply because you can't rely on dervish dance, and still spell sets you back in spells.


Also, Half Elf Oracle Necromancer can use paragon surge to cast ANY undead-making spell without having to worry bout pesky things like having it on his spell list


Also, fighter with enough armor training that that one trait


freebooter ranger.


^^ Welp.


fixed it


Nipin wrote:

Are you planning on, or perhaps even just considering, adding an extra section on building for rays/ranged weapons?

I would personally be interested in this as one of my favorite options for wizard is the ray focused caster (specifically scorching ray). It may not be optimal, but it has always been a fun build for me.

Given that a lot of people like to use dervish dance, and given that DEX is such an important stat, I should.

I've used ray builds before when making arcane tricksters. It's fun to hit when rolling 2's :D

I like your suggestion of using quickened scorching rays as part of the attack action, though I don't know if I'd want to take weapon focus, weapon specialization and point blank master. I mean, why not just attack, 5-foot step, quickened Scorching Ray?

don't get me wrong, I see the benefit. You're dishing out an extra 12d6 damage a turn. However, if I were to do that I'd rather use Intensified Shocking Grasp. Maybe throw in Spell Perfection (Already having Intensified and Quicken Spell, meeting 2 of the 3 prerequisite feats) and burn a level 2 spell slow to deal 10d6 as part of my attack action.

Going back to saving your party member from a mook: You're right, that's the kind of thing that would straight up save a party member. But you gotta remember that a touch attack at 3/4 BAB has a pretty high hitchance. Especially if you are dex-based.

As for the caster level thing: I think that extra caster level is very precious. As I said before, losing 3 caster levels should be your limit, and would need a LOT of return (Divine Grace, opening up Rage Powers maybe) to justify it.

Final Thought: Ray builds I think are better suited to arcane trickster builds. You have a lower BAB but you can catch enemies' flatfooted touch AC's. Though if you have a familiar, you can give it a wand of <whatever> ray and take advantage of its 3/4 BAB and probably high dex.

@Dragon: You're correct, I need to change that.

And one more thing: I'm going to bump up Ranger from Orange. Getting Perception and stealth and class skills, 6 skill ranks, and +2 to Reflex is pretty friggin awesome. Also, Freebooter archetype for a move action +1 to attack and damage with no duration.

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