Zarathos's page

Then check out pdfs of classic D&D materials at http://www.dndclassics.com.

Classic D&D is the same game from 1974-1999 (0e - 2e). Each edition had ever expanding options and different organization. However, it is all easily compatible and modular with no wrong way to play. It really didn't become a different game (although still easily convertible for spells & magic items) until 3e. The major differences really come down to tone, organization, and the options presented.

As for monster replacement, most are still the same. For example, whether you playing 0e-2e, D&D B/X, D&D BECMI, the basilisk HD are 6+1, the bite is still 1d10 and the gaze reguires a save vs. petrification. Although for 0e, D&D B/X, D&B BECMI, the base AC 9 vs AC 10 for AD&D, Gygax didn't bother to adjust the AC, most ACs remain the same.

As Kthulhu said, any conversions are not that complicated. So, whatever module you have from this classic era will work and if you wish to try anything recent may I suggest any of the Swords & Wizardry material from Frog God Games.

The Mires of Mourning is an excellent adventure, I got the wonderful opportunity to run thru it with Greg at NTRPG Con in June. It was first time I have gotten to play Pathfinder at a Con. Great fun, I am looking forward to what Greg is going to have at NTRPG Con 2013.

@mach1.9pants - Under d20pro Menu Button: Downloads, the maps need to be imported. Once imported, the maps are under Library.

if there is a second printing, even if not, I think the pdf should be updated to include an appendix of player's maps made from d20pro maps. This would allow the option to export the maps into any virtual game space including Paizo's upcoming offering.

Right now, the d20pro maps are locked from export, which I understand. However, since I have a 30 inch monitor, I can screen grab it at fairly good resolution. Since I use d20pro, this isn't a problem but others (meaning future customers) may not wish to spend $30+the cost of Rappan Athuk d20pro maps.

Personally, I feel all adventures/modules in this modern age should be bundled with pdfs that include both a GM and a Player's Map. In fact for me, the usefulness of the printed copy has become greatly diminished. If I just had the RA printed copy without the pdf and d20pro maps, I don't think I could run it due to the complexity of the cartography.

While waiting for completion of d20pro maps (thank you so much for your work on this, Rachel), I am completely reworking the pdf for later printing for play. Removing the art, separating the maps, changing stat blocks, adding errata (S&W version has significantly more than the Pf version), adding art into a illustrations section like Tomb of Horrors, and renumbering the pages. The white space from the lack of art allows notes to be written during play; no one wants to write in their faux-leather hardcopy.

So, the printing copy looks good on my bookshelf and have enjoying reading it but it has limited use in actually playing my game.

D20Pro downloads are fixed for me, hopefully for the others as well.

I can see the Rappan Athuk files in d20, but there is no option for me to download. I assume it has to do with my login. I filled out the survey with my d20 login when it came through.

I e-mailed d20 about the the issue. Should I also e-mail you guys? Thanks!

I glad I not the only one that is having the same problem although it would obviously be better if it just worked. It is in the Marketplace but not linked into download for my login. I emailed Blonde Frog at kickstarter@talesofthefroggod.com.

Of course, the big FGG Hero Lab project would be the Tome of Horrors Complete. When comes it?

Most of the monsters in Tome of Horrors Complete are in the d20pfsrd Community Bestiary. It is still WIP but it looking good.

On the d20pfsrd website, it is under Extras - HeroLab Community Repository; also at this specific site.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/hero-lab

Everything arrived safe and sound. Packaging was, as usual, top notch with not dings or damage at all. I have this peculiar thing of always expecting top quality from FGG and nonetheless being pleasantly surprised by just how good the books are when I finally get them. :)

One query - although it was signed by Bill, my leather PF book didnt get a number (which is no big deal) but I'm curious as to how many were printed. Was it 30 PF and 30 S&W or 30 total? (Or something else?)

The leather PF book has a number; it isn't by Bill's signature; it is in faint ink in the corner of the cover page opposite the art. Bill used ink that was brighter when wet so it didn't work out like he hoped.

You know on the golden ticket thing; I am started to wonder if a ticket is stuffed in one of the books. If so, I wonder how many were opened without the owner turning every page. It just seems strange that only one has ever been redeemed. Of course, maybe not; it could be in the front with the signature card and there really are many out there that are still shrink-wrapped.

GoodReader is an excellent app that has worked well for me using many of the cloud services. iCloud, Dropbox, Skydrive, Box, SugarSync... I have pdfs on all of these cloud services connected to GoodReader. iCloud syncing works well with Mountain Lion on my laptop (for some reason Lion iCloud stopped working on my desktop). Under ~/Library/Mobile Documents is a folder for GoodReader, simply placing files in this folder will sync with iPad under GoodReader. The Library folder is invisible so if you don't use a utility to make it visible(or use Terminal), you have to use the Finder Go Menu and select Go to Folder ... and type in "~/Library" to locate it. Of course, you could also use iTunes as well especially if the syncing computer is Windows. For best results, use the cloud application on your computer(Mac or Windows) to upload your documents.

Personally, I have never used Safari on iPad for downloading documents. Everything goes thru my Mac first. Never ever a problem. I can download at will my many documents. Dropbox is my primary go-to service.

I decided to open mine as well; No Golden Ticket for Killer DM#1000. Dragnmoon, Shem, and myself come up with nada. I believe there were two others that got a RA Reloaded. I wonder how many Bill has got left.

I need to decide what I am going to do with this"Killer GM #993". I already own #20 opened, should I sell it sealed? Or open it to see if there is a golden ticket in it then sell the box?

How many golden tickets are left that have not been turned in?

Selfishly, I would like you to open your #993 so I can decide if I want to open #1000. Obviously, you would like me to do the same. There are still some golden tickets out there. I think "Free product for life" & "Free PDF for life" , "Attend RPG Con on Necromancer", I believe these are the ones Bill mentioned. If I could get the first one, it would be worth the entire pledge amount.

I am curious if FGG plans to incorporate the Necromancer Games product "Dead's Man Chest" into Razor Coast. This allows both a new and update of popular older product.

Hmm, just thinking that would be awesome. Either way, I am in for the Kickstarter.

@Louis

I really like this product concept; so my gut reaction is no corners will have to be cut; but that is only because of what I know about this particular third-party publisher.

If I had to choose a corner that had to be cut; I would choose D because I like old school B&W.

I am somewhat confused about this initial post since I learned the following today and posted in another thread:

This project has been raised from the dead. More news is coming by October 20th. Let me say that has been picked up a great third-party publisher and will be going into Kickstarter in December.

Razor Coast will be a full-color hardcover as a sandbox-style, mini-campaign setting and toolkit that helps GMs create a rich, age of sail flavored adventure path. It will be complete experience for both Pathfinder and unnamed ruleset.

I think all of you will be very pleased with the company that Nick is now working with on this project.

Furthermore, here is quote from my source which I won't reveal at this time in the pending press release. "This is going to be a hardcover, full color extravaganza, complete with Player's Guide and enough swag to sink any pirate ship!"

Is this a red herring to gauge initial interest before the announcement?

This project has been raised from the dead. More news is coming by October 20th. Let me say that has been picked up a great third-party publisher and will be going into Kickstarter in December.

Razor Coast will be a full-color hardcover as a sandbox-style, mini-campaign setting and toolkit that helps GMs create a rich, age of sail flavored adventure path. It will be complete experience for both Pathfinder and unnamed ruleset.

I think all of you will be very pleased with the company that Nick is now working with on this project.

This is a entertaining thread because it is so obviously stupid, kinda like watching Monty Python. I believe William Senn's analysis should close the book on this thread.

@hellacious huni, if it is a RA subscription, there is no download yet.

@Death Knight Wolfthulhu, Rappan Athuk is not in Golarion unless you put it in there; later, Frog God Games is going to release a campaign setting which includes Rappan Athuk, Tsar, & Bard's Gate i.e the NecroWorld setting.

Another workaround is to download Adobe Reader for the iPad. :)

They've updated it since the start (and it was abysmal, to say the least) and it's right on par with Good Reader at the moment.

Well, Chuck, that does indeed work! Thanks, I downloaded awhile back and didn't like it; however, it now seems to have improved.

@Dark Sasha,

I have noticed that there are several illustrations that do not display when using Preview on Mac OS X and the iPad. For example, in the S&W version, art is missing on pages 156, 391, & 404 as well as the pre-gen characters on pages 436-440.

Since I have Adobe Acrobat, I was able to create a workaround to get this art to show up on my iPad. Others with an iPad may need an updated pdf.

My two cents from the peanut gallery:

Both d20 and pre-d20 are GAMES with different rulesets with their own strengths and weaknesses. The only objective difference is the degree of rigidity with the rest coming down to subjective opinion. I will gladly and happily play in either with a creative and excellent GM and open and honest players without a munchkin, entitlement, or god complex. In the grand scheme of RPGs, it all comes down to the quality of the players, not the differences in the ruleset. Arguing about "a ruleset" as "the ruleset" is a pointless exercise that only leads to hurt feelings.

@TriOmegaZero, I didn't feel you were being hostile. No need for apology.

@Chuck, I have full confidence that you know your business, you are a vital and essential part of the layout and distribution of the final product. Let me take this opportunity to tell what a fine and excellent job you are doing.

So, I was simply thinking out loud (in print) and bemusing in a whimsical sort of way. I will wait in a relaxed and zen-like state for any additional info on this greatly anticipated product.

Where do you see anything about S&W going to print?

I guess looking at the last response from FGG at the Kickstarter website:

"Books will be back from the printer in late August."

As well as the last update:

"We received confirmation from the printers today that the book went to print."

I guess by "the book" that they are referring to both versions or not. If not, to have it back by late August, when is the latest it could be sent? or will the S&W print be later than the PF print?

Just wondering...

The S&W version isn't finished, the PF version is.

Yes, but both have supposedly gone to the printer; how else are they going to meet their August deadline?

Guys, the S&W version isn't finished yet, when that's done, I'm going to work up both PDFs for Pathfinder and Swords & Wizardry.

The S&W version should be finished sometime next week.

In the meantime, I've been working on the other goodies.

Chuck, I am confused by this. How can the S&W version not be finished, yet already have been sent to the printer?

Crap, I've never used Bytes Interactive before.

Will I have issues getting access to PDFs?

Should I set up an account now? I don't see a register section on the website...

If you have ever bought a PDF from the Frog God Games website, an account is setup with PayPal associated email login and site generated password. I am not sure what happens if you don't use PayPal. I guess Bill has to call get you a login setup.

Scott Betts wrote:

Zarathos wrote:

Do you really believe that "they" can improve them?

Yes. Especially since they have, already. Repeatedly.

Opinions on that vary. My personal favorite ruleset at the moment is Swords & Wizardry: Complete Rules...which is pretty much 0E at the end of it's life cycle (only organized FAR better). So, in my opinion, the rules have been getting WORSE since about 1977 or so, not better.

That's the thing, what ruleset you prefer is a matter of OPINION. You can't really factually state that 4E > 3.5 > 3.0 > 2E > 1E > 0E. That's all a matter of opinion. Some people out there think 4E is the best. Some think 2E is the best. Some people say screw D&D altogether, RuneQuest is the best.

Good point, Kthulhu! My position is largely opinion; I am really not trying to change anybody's mind. S&W Complete is also a favorite for me as well. I love that I can easily add 1e and 2e rules at will to it. Although I never liked the demi-human level limits and multi-classing rules, I either change or ignore as I did years ago when first playing 1e. It also makes playing an adventure like S&W version of Rappan Athuk easily compatible with 0e-2e.

You are also right that support is key which is also why the changing ruleset have been so tiresome because the ruleset is the only substantial items that WOTC sells.

It is not really an argument, my position is mostly subjective anyway. It is more of a prediction of failure of WOTC which I may be completely wrong. I have been a customer in the past and do not wish to remain in the future. Performance in the past is not necessarily indicative of performance in the future. D&D brand appears weaker than anytime except at the end of the TSR era.

I just tired of the ruleset changes every five years or so. There are always those looking for next best thing. I guess that I am just too satisfied with all of the existing rulesets. The rules are the least interesting part of a RPG because I really only believe they are guidelines. Rules are rigid; guidelines are mutable. New ideas are great and I am always looking for those. D&D rulesets should be evolutionary not revolutionary. Evolutionary rulesets are easily changeable and linkable to the previous editions.

I could play in any game with any iteration as determined by any GM due to my open and flexible nature. I would even play D&D Next; I just not going to spend any money on it.

The question isn't whether WOTC can possibly come with any improvements to the game;it is always possible, just not likely IMHO. The company has the stink of decay about it. The question is whether I am willing to pay for any of them. The answer is definitive NO! If I am just some radical outlier, no problem for WOTC; however, I don't think that I am.

Zarathos wrote:

Kthulhu, 100% agree that the above is non-viable. However, that is not the point of the petition; the bullet points were only possible alternatives to D&D Next. WOTC needs to get completely out of the rules creation business. Honestly, there are enough rules from 0e-4e plus retroclones for a lifetime of play.

There have been enough rules for a lifetime of play since at least 1990 or so. Not just D&D, but so many others. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try to improve them.

It's just a silly argument.

Of course, it is a silly argument because it is not even an argument.

Do you really believe that "they" can improve them? The rules are actually the least interesting part of a RPG; it wasn't the great mechanics of 1e that was most attractive because they weren't great in retrospect. It was creativity and uniqueness of 1e that Gary Gygax put into core set from 1976-1979. Instead I getting sucked into yet another edition, one can easily create multiple combinations of the existing rulesets especially from the sets of 0e-2e & 3e-Pathfinder. With all of the 3rd party material from 2000 to the present, the combinations have to be near infinite; whether it is fun, exciting, balanced/unbalanced is completely up to the player.

I just not seeing much creativity, uniqueness, and innovation coming out of WOTC these days. Maybe that is ok, maybe most of it needs to come from the players anyway. Gary's greatest concern was that whatever you played, it was universally recognized as D&D. We have now seen multiple iterations of his framework recognized as D&D.. I will gladly peruse others creative and innovative interpretations; I am just done with any WOTC interpretation; they are like the Microsoft of RPGs. Like Microsoft, they just become tiresome and dull.

Zarathos wrote:

WOTC needs to get completely out of the rules creation business. Honestly, there are enough rules from 0e-4e plus retroclones for a lifetime of play.

This attitude, and the widespread acceptance of said attitude as sage wisdom, is what causes games (and ideas in general) to stagnate and die. If D&D does not innovate and compete for its market, something else will.

At this point, Scott. I think that is exactly what I hope will happen! For me, despair has set in regarding WOTC's ability to innovate and compete. So, I hope that someone else can and will step up.

Zarathos wrote:

• Convert modules and campaign settings originally published under one edition, and publish them under all other editions.

Even if the others were to actually happen, there's absolutely no way this would ever happen. Do you understand the massive undertaking that this would be? No sane company would ever even attempt this. Hell, Paizo hasn't even done this with anything other than Rise of the RUnelords, and they're very careful to tell us that this is a one-off thing. And that's only converting from 3.5 to PFRPG. You really want them to put out EIGHT versions of every support product in their back catelog?

Original Dungeons & Dragons
Dungeons & Dragons BECMI / Rules Cyclopepdia
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1E
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2E
Dungeons & Dragons 3.0
Dungeons & Dragons 3.5
Dungeons & Dragons 4E / Essentials
Dungeons & Dragons Next

It's completely non-viable.

Kthulhu, 100% agree that the above is non-viable. However, that is not the point of the petition; the bullet points were only possible alternatives to D&D Next. WOTC needs to get completely out of the rules creation business. Honestly, there are enough rules from 0e-4e plus retroclones for a lifetime of play. The D&D Next design team of Mearls & Co. doesn't have either the time or the talent to pull this off. They are going to create a Frankenstein monster of editions with a fresh coat of new art on it; what is old is new again and all is right in the brave new RPG world -- frankly, this is total BS and I am not going to support it.

What I am going to support is a third-party publisher like Frog God Games which in essence supports the first six items in your list through support of Swords & Wizardry and Pathfinder. Since WOTC does NOT need to create another rules set and they CAN'T produce adventures of the same quality as Paizo and FGG, the ideas presented in this petition is the best case to prevent the shelving of the D&D brand.

However, I really don't believe that either. For me, this petition really represents that the best days of D&D brand are in the past and the future belongs to others. I have been a part of the D&D Next play test and recently I got what has to be one of the world's stupidest surveys; once more asking me again what my favorite edition is; instead I wished they would have asked what my most disliked edition is.

In any case, the petition is likely a meaningless exercise that allows the expression of the total pointlessness of D&D Next.

http://www.change.org/petitions/wizards-of-the-coast-support-all-current-an d-past-editions-of-dungeons-dragons#share

I found this petition to WOTC and to Mike Mearls specifically. At this point, I really believe this is the direction that WOTC should go in. In fact, it is likely the only way I can see that I will support the D&D brand in the future.

It is definitely worth a look; even a diehard Pathfinder fan may find it worth supporting.

Here is a copy of the letter that would be sent below:

WotC: Support all current and past editions of Dungeons & Dragons!

Dear Mr. Mearls,

I just signed the following petition addressed to: Wizards of the Coast, LLC.

----------------

After only four years since last edition of Dungeons & Dragons (4E) was released, Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro have made the decision to stop supporting it, despite its popularity with numbers older gamers as well as a noteworthy population of new gamers. As a replacement, it has been decided that a new edition of D&D would be designed for the gaming community, based upon a retro-clone model, despite a glut in the game market of heroic-fantasy-D&D-like clones. Furthermore, DDI support features which had been promised for the current retiring edition, such as the Virtual Table Top (VTT), Character Visualizer, and Encounter Builder, have all been postponed indefinitely or cancelled, in a move which was inherently detrimental to brand loyalty.

Poll data released by Wizards of the Coast and EN World have reported that approval ratings by the playtesters of the new edition’s rules are only registering at less than two-thirds (~60%). And this says nothing of those gamers in the D&D Community which show so little interest in D&D Next that they have not even bothered to sign up for the playtest and contribute to the development of the new edition.

So rather than a new edition, I urge you and Wizards of the Coast to bring back corporate support for ALL EDITIONS of Dungeons & Dragons – D&D, AD&D, 2nd Edition, OGL/3.5, and 4E - and give all D&D fans access to the massive product library from the past, and going forward into the future!

There are definite advantages to a Content-Provider Publishing Model, and they can earn profit by any and all of these methods:

• Re-publish core rulebook and sourcebooks for all previous editions of D&D.
• Re-publish all old D&D supplemental content such as modules and settings for all editions.
• Re-publish old issues of Dragon and Dungeon Magazine in POD or eBook formats.
• Use POD and eBook formats such as EPUB, PDF, and Kindle to release the vast library of D&D content without stock overhead.
• Convert modules and campaign settings originally published under one edition, and publish them under all other editions.
• Combine all material from the current 4E edition, including errata and Essentials materials, to create more streamlined version of this edition to be re-published.
• Sponsor DDI support for all four editions, including Character Builders, Monster & Encounter Designers, and Rules Compendiums. Allow fans to buy subscriptions to each support program separately, or to subscribe to bundles, or the entirety of DDI support, as desired.
• Implement the use of new technology in all editions of D&D, either through internal development or outsourcing. Publish Player and Dungeon Master apps for palm devices, tablets, and smart phones.
• Release new content for all editions in Dragon and Dungeon Webzine articles, allocating percentage of pages in proportion to DDI subscriptions for each edition.
• License all editions under a new agreement to encourage 3rd Party Publishers to support all editions of the game.
• Design and release of new supplemental content (modules, sourcebooks, campaign settings, etc.) can be published for all editions – one product sells to four consumer groups!

Supporting ALL D&D EDITIONS means supporting ALL D&D FANS!
----------------

Sincerely,

[Your name]

Backed again *face-palm*

22 backers to go... 38 minutes

$5 and your GM can have his Name In the Book as a backer.

Actually, I going to put my cats' names in for one of my accounts that I made a $5 pledge.

The last one was me, last alias!

Come on! If just 45 of us do an additional $5 pledge (under alias, or whatever), we'll all get the shiny dice.

Shiny, shiny dice....

I actually did this twice, so I am in 1 for 3 backers. Surely, more must have special someone who can be a follower, a fly, a chicken, or a victim of Orcus & Tsathogga?

This didn't get added to the FAQ yet. So, I forgot the following extras you get since KS made it to 200k.

"All of our backers who pledge $10 or more will now receive the PDF of The Libram of Fortunate Happenstance players booklet PLUS We will add a PDF windfall booklet for the GM to respond with their own windfall parchments.

All of our backers who pledge $10 or more will receive an Orcus Decal."

So, at the $40 level, the only physical nondigital things are the Orcus button and decal.

So, for the $40 pdf option you can get the following:

$40 Pledge - PDF of "Bill's 100 Lines", wallpaper artwork of Rappan Athuk Cover Art, special tribute illustration, Name in Book, PDF of Player's Guide, PDF of pre-generated characters, Orcus Button, PDF of GM Screen, and PDF of Rappan Athuk (1 version).

See the Kickstarter for an explanation of some of these items. I wonder how much it would cost to mail that 1 Orcus button?

Gorbacz, of course, you should back it, why not? Being in Poland, you may not want to pay the shipping cost, but you should at least buy the pdf.

Great stuff on your recent Kickstarter update, Bill. You make me want to believe that maybe we can actually pull this off. All who do not have Slumbering Tsar must increase their pledge now.

Returning on a more optimistic note, Frog God Games is the best third-publisher of adventures and modules that I have ever seen for world's oldest fantasy RPG from 1974-2008. Their adventurers are excellent and second-to-none except maybe for some of Greg's outside work. Ironically, by September of this year due to WOTC's reprinting of 1e and 3.5e core books, FGG will concurrently support both D&D versions with minimal conversion.

Thanks, Kthulu, for keeping it real. However, here is some perspective and a reality check. On June 16 & 17, the largest single backer pledges came in. At this point, about ten days ago, RA was ahead of Traveller5 with the largest delta of about $21,000. Over this ten day period, they closed the gap and pulled ahead. If Bill hadn't brought the subscription option forward, Traveller5 would have pulled ahead about three days ago.

Traveller5 has had a persistent and consistent rate of increase over this time while RA has had large transient spikes. If RA and Traveller5 rates are about the same over the next 4 days as they have been over the previous ten, Traveller5 has possibility of creating a gap about $8000 in their favor. Which would leave RA about 28 hours to close that gap. The possibility of gaining a substantial number of new backers is low. Unless, Bill has got some secret backers in reserve, we are in trouble.

So, to have even the glimmer of a chance, Bill is going to have to get a little crazy. A majority of the $100 & $250 pledges have got to move up $50 and he has got to figure out an incentive for them to do so. The $100 pledges have shown interest in the dice; perhaps he could include a set with the subscription. The $250 pledges already get a set; I don't know if another is going to do it.

Traveller5 is kicking our ass and taking names, not because of the current delta but because of number of backers along with the rate of increase. That makes sense because it is a ruleset with player material. Frog God Games sells adventures which appeals to GMs and those that like to read their well-written material. However, without great adventures, a RPG is severely diminished but player material does sell better.

I apologize for the frankness of my statement above. I really like FGG and am a huge fan but there are facts and then there is wishful thinking.

Current delta in Traveller5's favor as of this writing : $1083 and continuing to climb.

Oops, Chuck! Warning! Warning! Danger, Will Robinson! $195 pledge is like 2 X $100 pledge, so the hardcopies are unsigned and unnumbered. This can verified with the FAQ on KS RA site.

Really, the cheapest option to get both signed & numbered books for Pathfinder and Swords & Wizardry is to make two $175 pledges. There was no option for like a $345 pledge.

I was at $500 level for the longest time for that very reason before I moved on.

It may seem insane but with no debt, no children, and no mortgage it is not as crazy as may think.

Rappan Athuk retakes the lead from Traveller 5E but it is very close.

I agree with both Evil Lincoln and Kthulhu on this concept of high-level/epic play and more importantly I believe the developers do also.

I wonder if D&D Next inclusion of the concept of bounded accuracy will help high-level play? If it does and DDN works hard at making it work, Paizo by doing nothing could find itself at a disadvantage. Of course, Wizards has to actually support it's ruleset beyond presenting it.

@Uninvited Ghost, After some reflection, I apologize for the harshness of some of my statements. Due to shock and awe at your initial statement, I was more reactive than I should have been.

Frog God Games is really special with their products when it comes to the Print/PDF bundle. It is only due to FFG's discretion that it is also included on Paizo's site. For the most part, Paizo's products allow the PDF with print only if you a subscriber. For some, subscription is great but I find that it discourages me from buying print direct.

Zarathos wrote:

You are allowed to feel this way but sometimes you just can't please some people.

Zarathos wrote:

Although "the customer is always right" is partially true some of the time, some customers aren't worth the effort.

You seem to be inferring that I can't be pleased, and I'm not worth the effort. I'm curious as to why you think this is?

Ok, I wanted the previous statement to be my last but I will also take this opportunity to say how truly great this product is. I got my on Friday, #222 out of 500.

You can never please people 100% of the time, eventually there is a point of diminishing returns. Your goal is make sure you don't alienate a majority and actually lose sales. A vocal minority must never dictate your sales plan. In this case, the bonus chapter was a reward to FGG's supporters, once this book is sold out it is gone. This is in stone and nonnegotiable. Individual installments in softcover and pdf will remain for a time. The complied pdf minus the bonus chapter will eventually be all that is sold and will be the best value for future sales.

Chuck Wright wrote:

Just a little perspective - It's 13 pages out of a 693 page PDF... it's not a bunch. I understand where you stand on the issue, but I would rather not see a mountain made out of a mole hill.

Wasn't trying to make a mountain or a mole hill. Just comments about the product in the comments section.

EDIT: Got to love the internet. I think I'm misreading peoples messages in posts now. To clarify, it could be 2 pages out of a 5000 page PDF. I still like to have complete pdfs of physical books.

Good try, Chuck! I think we have beaten this dead ghostly horse enough. I think we have an excellent handle of what he likes and dislikes. Although "the customer is always right" is partially true some of the time, some customers aren't worth the effort. The great thing is that he is still buying anyway, probably will buy Rappan Athuk also. Hope he doesn't get the bonus 7B level since there is not going to pdf of that either. Last word!

Dear Uninvited Ghost,

I am not sure what your complaint entails. I am really confused about the anger I am sensing here and uncertain as to where exactly it is being directed; at us for providing a bonus for subscribers or at Paizo for selling a pdf that has no bonus chapter in it. If you want the book and not the pdf, you can just buy the book. You don't have to download the pdf if you don't want it. It is free with the purchase of the book. That is what the top option Print/PDF bundle means.

The book contains the bonus chapter that, as Kthulhu states, is not necessary to complete the Saga. You are of course free to purchase one or the other, or neither. However, this preorder is through Paizo, not us, and isn't much of one as you will be shipped the book very soon via Paizo. I can't say when as I am not them.

The preorders from us directly actually begain 2 years ago. Subscribers had to be content with the chapters as they came out via pdf one at a time over the months between then and now. Those persons are the ones the bonus chapter was intended to reward, for their patience. We value all our customers of course, so the bonus chapter is available to anyone who purchases the hardcover regardless of preorder status.

If you were angry because you thought that you weren't getting the entire campaign in the book, you may wish to revise your anger since it may entirely be possible what you think is true, actually isn't.

You are such a wonderfully nice and diplomatic person. I wish I was as patient.

I look forward to meeting you at NTRPG Con; you are on my short list of those I wish to sign some FGG books that I have.

Kthulhu wrote:

Wow dude, chill. The 15th chapter is just that, a BONUS for people who preordered. It's not like the story is incomplete without it.

Thanks, but I don't need to chill.

I like getting stuff in print AND pdf. Probably the number one reason that there's that tag next to my name on these boards. There is no pdf option for this other material, which I would like to have as pdf.

Pretty sure I'm allowed to feel this way. :)

I am with Kthulhu on this. By way, nice tip of hat to you for the thanks from Greg for your support.

As for the ghost, buy or don't. If not, your loss. The bonus chapter is a supplemental lead-in to another product. FGG produces the best quality RPG stuff out there. Almost all is bundled with a pdf especially if you order direct.

You are allowed to feel this way but sometimes you just can't please some people.