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Yakman's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. 581 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Nathan Monson wrote:

I think I'm going to have Casandalee contact them over intercoms when the party enters the Science module; she will claim to be a prisoner here, and give the party advice on reaching Khonnir.

Hopefully, by the time they finish book 2, the party will be invested enough in Casandalee that they will want to recover her memories on their own. In addition I'm probably going to splice in "Doom comes to Dustspawn", so if they need more motivation I can have the falling star happen where they can see it. Then The Emissary will help bridge to book 4.

that's a good idea.


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Alni wrote:
Yakman wrote:

It's not cruel to enforce a labor contract. It's just to see that it is upheld on both ends. He might not beat his slave (more than the law and discipline requires), but he's not going to free him unless the contract allows for it and those hurdles are met (and in Cheliax, it's going to be a lot of hurdles).

He might be LN, but he's serving a god of Slavery and Oppression. It's going to tinge his actions.

I'd recommend, if you have a chance, doing a bit of reading about the "coloureds" and "free blacks" in San Domingue (the french colony which became Haiti). The successful ones frequently owned slaves, kept the slave economy going, and many (but not all) fought to defend the slave system when everything came crashing down. Many of them were born slaves, or their parent(s) were slaves, yet they didn't challenge the system that they existed in. (There's also a delightful podcast called "Revolutions" which has a series on the Haitian Revolution, which I heartily endorse).

I would suspect that even a kind Cheliaxan slave master remains a Cheliaxan slave master despite his kindnesses to his chattel.

I'll look into the stuff you recommended sounds interesting, I did a bit of a quite depressing search into the topic. As it is I did assume that even certain slaves may not be opposed to slavery, and neither is the cleric.

Still, I don't see it impossible that there would be one case where someone wanted to free their slave. It's not about the general attitude in Cheliax, is just about one specific twenty two year old Cheliaxian slave master school teacher / newbie cleric that owns a single slave he can barely afford for the past two years.

the burden of slavery goes both ways.

that being said, I would suggest that an Asmodean cleric freeing a slave is going to have to atone in some way to his god. he's acting extremely contrary to his faith in doing that.

maybe it will cause a crisis of faith and move him towards some other deity - Abadar perhaps, or maybe even further up the alignment chart towards Iomedae, or even (gasp!) Shelyn, as the action knocks him to Neutral from Lawful Neutral.


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Lord Fyre wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
If it helps, consider viewing the AP not as one adventure path but as a trilogy. This is sort of how I looked at it when I was creating the AP—a trilogy about the three technological deities that play roles in the overall path.
A problem though is that this leaves the transition from Book 2 to Book 3 feeling kind of awkward.

my thoughts exactly.

2-3 is not well bridged. there's not enough motivation to get the characters looking for some robot AI that doesn't impact their lives anymore.

i suggested that Iron Gods be run as a kind of "Suicide Squad", where the PCs are pushed by an outside power (I suggested Alling-Third) along the way. Elsewise, they just don't have a reason to go where they go or do the things that they end up doing.


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Alni wrote:
Yakman wrote:

imho, unless the slave buys his freedom through his contract (somehow, and leaping over any number of hoops and hurdles making it practically impossible) an Asmodean wouldn't free him.

Certainly not on a lark, certainly not out of mercy.

There's a contract, there's an obligation to labor. Asmodeans aren't in the business of manumission.

True but I believe the clerics of a god are really varied. My PC is LN, he is ambitious, selfish to some extent, loves rules and discipline but he's not cruel. He believes that violence and harsh punishments are needed sometimes but he finds them unpleasant and inconvenient. He'd like to be above all others but he doesn't care to oppress anyone, just that the rules are followed. And I think that is acceptable for an Asmodean.

He is an Asmodean because he was born in Cheliax, the church gives him a way to wealth and power and Asmodeus just cares that you do as you're told. He would just as easily serve Abadar or Iomedae if he were in another country.

It's not cruel to enforce a labor contract. It's just to see that it is upheld on both ends. He might not beat his slave (more than the law and discipline requires), but he's not going to free him unless the contract allows for it and those hurdles are met (and in Cheliax, it's going to be a lot of hurdles).

He might be LN, but he's serving a god of Slavery and Oppression. It's going to tinge his actions.

I'd recommend, if you have a chance, doing a bit of reading about the "coloureds" and "free blacks" in San Domingue (the french colony which became Haiti). The successful ones frequently owned slaves, kept the slave economy going, and many (but not all) fought to defend the slave system when everything came crashing down. Many of them were born slaves, or their parent(s) were slaves, yet they didn't challenge the system that they existed in. (There's also a delightful podcast called "Revolutions" which has a series on the Haitian Revolution, which I heartily endorse).

I would suspect that even a kind Cheliaxan slave master remains a Cheliaxan slave master despite his kindnesses to his chattel.


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GreatKhanArtist wrote:

I'm curious where you read that. It's an interesting concept, that's for sure.

The upcoming Ironfang Invasion would work well with Droaam. There are tonnes of remnants of the hobgoblin empire kicking around Khorvaire and Breland is due for a beat down from the Lhesh Haruuk. Maybe the new female villain replaces him and unites the warring tribes, like Genghis Khan? I'm super excited for this AP.

Darguun still has some Cyrean refugees huddling around in it as well.

Isn't Droaam the hag/medusa/??? empire?

Darguun is the resurrected hobgoblin kingdom, right?


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imho, unless the slave buys his freedom through his contract (somehow, and leaping over any number of hoops and hurdles making it practically impossible) an Asmodean wouldn't free him.

Certainly not on a lark, certainly not out of mercy.

There's a contract, there's an obligation to labor. Asmodeans aren't in the business of manumission.


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Broken wrote:
Now, enter Mengkare. He's smart enough to realize what the Aboleth did,and now has replicated the petri dish on his own Island. His bad reputation is from the Aboleth tring to prevent him from recreating the Pure Azlanti race and essentially creating an army of good gods.

whoah... mind blown...

OR...

Mengkare is an Aboleth Plot!


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it pays to read the fine print.
also the regular size print.


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GreatKhanArtist wrote:
I don't recall the warforged ever having Quori in them. The warforged are a unique species, given sentience when they are formed. The Inspired have a Quori spirit in them, they are Vessels.

in Eberron it was hinted at that the warforged were inhabited by Quori spirits, which animated their bodies. That's why House Cannith couldn't get them to work until they got SOMETHING from Xen'drik (which is where the Quori had tried to take over in the distant past).

for some reason, the Quori sentience is erased when it enters the body of the warforged (maybe). which is why they aren't all complete psychopaths.

at least, that was my reading of the material.


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i suppose you could also swap in Karrnath for Ustalav in Carrion Crown. Tar Baphon could either be a lich or a trapped Rakshasa (it's not really important for the AP's action).


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The Shaman wrote:
I would say Shelyn and Sarenrae would both be pretty good fit for fighting corrupting eldritch horrors and being willing to give someone a chance at redemption. To be honest, though, most paladin deities would be okay with not letting the machinations of Old One cults and madmen come to fruition. IMO Erastil makes slightly less sense as the adventure path is more about travel and less about staying in one place and community, but seriously, I think they all work.

staying in one place and community kinda fits the parts of Ustalav where the characters are operating in (at least in the first 2 books).

that being said... they start out with a lost mind. how can former thugs under Lowls' employ come out of the mind wipe with paladin powers?


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Eldred the Grey wrote:

I know its just at times I find reading things helps push my depression to the side and opens up my inspiration and I have not found a lot or seen many products or product descriptions that are firing me up.

But Thanks Anyway.

EtG

there's plenty of great material for other campaign settings that can help serve as inspiration, or just good reading material.

TSR's fantastic second edition supplements on the deities of the Forgotten Realms come to mind. The one for 3rd Edition was quite good. As a fan of the Eberron setting, Faiths of Eberron is spectacular as well.


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Hastur-worship and PCs don't go very well in good-aligned games, which Hell's Rebels most certainly is.

That being said, if I were to do something with Hastur in Kintargo, it would probably be throwing in a few easter eggs in the Opera House.


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Fletch wrote:

Wow, that's a memory.

I'm not super-familiar with either of the APs you mentioned, but I usually get the first volume of each AP just to get a feel for what they are (and get the handy summary at the end of each). Based on those, I can offer some broad ideas for Mummy's Mask and Iron Gods, but details will be minimal.

Still, figure I'll use some spoiler tags just out of courtesy:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Just a couple off-the-cuff ideas to spark discussion. In the meantime, I think I'll re-read those AP summaries and see if anything else comes to mind.

Unfortunately, that's about where my Pathfinder knowledge ends. My interest in APs faded a bit until recently when a growing interest in Ironfang Invasion brought me back to these forums just in time to catch your post. Interesting coincidence, really.

WELL... the Lord of Blades can be the Black Tyrant.

which makes the decision about redeeming him all the more important. and the weird juices running around Numeria more like bizzzaro motor-oils for the warforged.

There's something in Faiths of Eberron where they talk about some of the warforged assembling an artifice-god. Could very well be Unity/Cassandlee.

OOHHH OOOOHHHHH!!!!

Spoiler:
The Warforged are Quori spirits (theoretically, right???) sooo... when the PCs descend into UNITY in book 6 - the burgeoning warforged god - they are descending INTO DAL QUOR.


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Been watching Westworld.

I think it makes sense to strike while the ioun is hot.

STEAMPUNK TYRANNY 2017-2018!!!!


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it really depends on how you want to run it.

You COULD do a comparable version of the New World - POWER XXXX (aspis consortium springs to mind, but the church of asmodeus, or urgathoa or whatever) creates a magic-impervious plague which decimates Arcadia entire, leaving it defenseless against Avistani conquistadors.

OR you could make it where the Arcadians are stronger than the Avistani and the Andorans are trying to leverage that power for their own gain

OR you could do whatever.

PERSONALLY, I would like for there to be... things... in Arcadia. there's people there, but they don't talk about them... and for good reason. and if the delicate balance is upset, well....


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Eldred the Grey wrote:

Its mostly fluff info that have maybe some cool options to allow you to grant a link between the past and present for your characters. It could also just provide inspiration for everyone which at times I admit to struggle with finding things that spark it. Take Shory for instance the info is fairly sparse which is great for future writers but fairly frustraiting for someone who is like me a fan of authenticity. Another was a throwaway line or two involving Aroden with the churches of his founders still having some power in Westcrown (CoT) and that he had other demigods serving him and that they maybe alive just forgotten. These are all great ideas its just the sparcity on some solid evidence and descriptions just makes me feel that some ideas will never be realised because there is nothing driving the inspiration for some concepts.

I'm fine with it spreading out bit by bit but possibly bigger chunks at around the 5-6 page limit rather than the 3-4 that currently seem to exist.

Thanks and sorry about the rant just needed to get it off the chest.

EtG.

Edit- Its just that the info is also so spread out as to be fairly expensive to assemble it all individually.

also, remember, it's your world once it comes onto your table.

personally, i've re-jiggered almost the entirety of the religious history/situation of golarion.


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Erastil.


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the iomedans in kintargo are against the GR b/c they are scared it isn't going to win.

by the time book 6 rolls around of hell's vengeance, the GR IS winning.

it might be interesting to stick the fall of Westcrown (chronologically) in the beginning of book 4 of HR. that's the spark the leads to the open revolt against barzillai. might add some chaos to the bit where the PCs have to win over the nobility. if Westcrown is still in GR hands through the negotiations in book 6 (which i think fits the tenor of the negotiations), all the better.


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it's best if this stuff percolates out bit by bit.

it's enough for a campaign, but not enough that it restricts creativity of future creators/players and people who get in a huff about canon.


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just got my copy in the mail. that cover is off the hook.


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i think you kinda gotta do second darkness next.


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there's a thread in the Giantslayer AP thread about it:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s4mw?Adapting-Giantslayer-to-Eberron

the gist is that he just set it in Xen'drik, and honestly, it kinda fits better over there in some ways.

That being said, Mummy's Mask doesn't seem like a great fit, because it kinda requires an Egypt analog unless you want to do a lot of rework. Dunno about Iron Gods. Eberron uses magic-technology, and Iron Gods is straightup machines & cybernetics.

I would imagine that (haven't read either) that Serpent's Skull would fit in Xen'drik and Skull & Shackles could be plopped into Lhazaar (make it a little colder and turn Cheliax into Karrnath). Rise of the Runelords might be plopped into plenty of places in the 5 Kingdoms.

That's just some thoughts.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
Back when he was still Dou-Bral, the god who would become Zon-Kuthon left one day to explore the "far dark places between the planes," when an alien entity possessed him. His original self was forced "into a tiny prison within his own essence." That's from Inner Sea Gods. Whatever got him was likely Lovecraftian, as it is mentioned in the Cosmic Horror section of Horror Realms that even gods have to bow down to the greatest cosmic horrors, then immediately sites the change that came over Z-K as an example. In People of the Stars though, it outright states that Z-K was transformed after contacting the Dark Tapestry. So was Z-K transformed in the Dark Tapestry or the places between the planes? .
Alas, that's an error that crept into print. Zon-Kuthon was not transformed by anything to do with the Dark Tapestry or the Elder Mythos. It was something else entirely that we haven't yet revealed, but that I hope some day TO reveal. It's certainly "like Lovecraftian" but not actually Lovecraftian. In any event... It's not a forever secret.

that is hopefully the seed of a future pathfinder ap.

i'm looking forward to it.


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Odraude wrote:

smaller clanholds and isolated villages probably would venerate them. Especially in areas that aren't socially stable. Say a village is going through a famine. They might be more willing to sell their souls to be able to feed themselves.

oh, definitely.

i can see more than a few of those isolated villages in Isger being subverted by the Mythos. Galt's chaos might be a place for them.

I've long been speculating on a Mythos-infused campaign where (in one part) the PCs discover a village populated with villainous Dagon/Cthulhu-type cult on the southern shores of Rahadoum, where the reach of the Pure League is weak.


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nowhere "civilized" save with POSSIBLY the aforementioned POSSIBLE tolerance for it on the fringes in Nex.

remember, the Outer Gods encourage the same type of highly destructive behavior that you see with Rovagug's people - and they are verboten as well.

I can see isolated places or barbarian tribes where the Mythos is venerated (kinda like in Lovecraft) but nowhere else. A small town gone mad, a lunatic bandit clan, a bizarre isolated farming community... that's about it. When it expands further than that or "normal" people hear about it, then it's pitchforks and torches for the lot of them.


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Freehold DM wrote:
No, crisis on infinite earths death of supergirl.

ah yes.


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Might make things interesting in books 4 and 5.


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just got a chance to scroll quickly through the pdf yesterday.

beautiful work. hats off.

looking forward to receiving my hardcopy.


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sweet


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Thronestep of course! Where better than propinquant to the Living God?


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Started looking at my old pdf of IVID THE UNDYING.

never got a chance to play in it, but man... that's an amazing setting book. all evil all the time.


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Cole Deschain wrote:

I dunno, a gunslinger walking the wastes, pistol in hand as they track down a pack of mutants who ambushed a caravan with some innocent bystanders on it...

Feels heroic fantasy enough for me.

Especially if the overall villain is some upstart looking to kick the Geb/Nex war back into high gear...

or crush both under a new Steampunk Tyranny...


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J-Bone wrote:
I love the whole Mana Wastes steampunk/westernpunk vibe but I reckon for an AP its problematic as magic doesn't work right out there. So that would be a huge obstacle to overcome.

it would be fun though. maybe spice some people's play style up.


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Guy St-Amant wrote:
Yakman wrote:
Samy wrote:
I wonder what it would take to have a Wild West themed AP. What are the key elements? Are deserts the key thing? Native American analogue cultures? Guns? Tumbleweeds? What? Could it be done somewhere in the Inner Sea?

THE Shoanti are quasi-analogues for native americans. the guns and the deserts and the coming industry is the mana wastes.

i'd love to see a mana wastes AP, personally.

And many of us would like that Mana Wastes AP to not be a Geb/Nex AP as well.

well... you run it with nexian overtones and its mutants . you run it with gebbite ones, and it's zombies. a straight mana waste campaign can be either or both or neither.


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Samy wrote:
I wonder what it would take to have a Wild West themed AP. What are the key elements? Are deserts the key thing? Native American analogue cultures? Guns? Tumbleweeds? What? Could it be done somewhere in the Inner Sea?

THE Shoanti are quasi-analogues for native americans. the guns and the deserts and the coming industry is the mana wastes.

i'd love to see a mana wastes AP, personally.


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Frogsplosion wrote:
I think Wrath of The Righteous would just be the defining issue here. Deskarri crosses through to the material plane, GG? I can't imagine a whole lot beating an army of infinite demons.

Space bound Unity might be able to by throwing an asteroid at the worldwound.

or by cyborging the demons and invading the Abyss itself.

that might cause some additional problems, however.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

I've said it before but since somebody mentioned steampunk, I'll say it again: I want to see an Iron Horses AP.

undead/steampunk wild west in the Mana Wastes?

I'd like it, but I think Paizo would have to go more all out than they did in Iron Gods, which had insufficient high-tech chain-axe wielding alien mutants fighting robot dinosaurs with lasers coming out of their eyes.


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you could just say that there's not enough cash to buy their stuff.

which there probably isn't.

so... yup. they got loot, but nobody can afford it.


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Zaister wrote:
Yakman wrote:
a swashbuckler is a pirate.

My swashbuckler in our Hell's Rebels campaign would disagree. He has never even set foot on a ship.

Also, Robin Hood is not a pirate. Inigo Montoya is not a pirate. D'Artagnan and the three musketeers are not pirates. Zorro is not a pirate. The list goes on.

Zorro is a vigilante.


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Kodyax wrote:
Hmmm, I may have to steal this idea if I get to run Strange Aeons. From what I can tell it would slot in perfectly with that AP

so far, it's more like EX-Suicide Squad.

really, the party starts out as the mooks of a bad guy. low level street toughs.


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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Yakman wrote:
as has been discussed in some other threads, the primary faith is saranae, but the economy is driven by slavery.

You're going to have to exposit the logical chain from these premises to the conclusion "Kelesh is in decline." In particular you're going to have to explain away the setting material that presents Kelesh as a vital font of civilization.

Quote:
also, decadent "oriental" empires are better for rpg purposes than healthy "oriental" empires.
They're certainly good for catering to orientalist preconceptions. But presumably RPGs exist to do something more, or something entirely different, than cater to orientalist preconceptions.

hah! RPGs exist entirely for fun. And harems, slavery, caravans, souks, scimitars, and carpets, flying and otherwise, are fun settings for fantasy land adventure.

Kelesh may well be a vital font of civilization. That doesn't mean that it's not a slave trading country, or that it is in decline.


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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Neriathale wrote:
My personal dream AP is some sort of pseudo-Persian flavoured political intrigue set in the Kelesh satrapies. Decline and fall of an ancient empire with added Rovagug.
Where'd you get the impression that Kelesh is in decline?

as has been discussed in some other threads, the primary faith is saranae, but the economy is driven by slavery.

also, decadent "oriental" empires are better for rpg purposes than healthy "oriental" empires.


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Good luck!


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OOOOHHHH OOOOOHHHHH!!!!

Alling Third sends them as emissaries to the Palace of Fallen Stars.

I always wondered how the PCs were just supposed to be wandering around the palace like that. Or why the Black Tyrant doesn't just strike them down where they stand.

Now, they have the calling card of one of the baddest undead robot dudes in Numeria.

IRON GODS is custom made for Suicide Squad!


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Odraude wrote:
Yakman wrote:
Xerres wrote:
Rysky wrote:

She doesn't support slavery, but the fact of the matter is that back when she was smite happy led to bad things happening so now she's on the opposite end of the spectrum, giving people too many chances for redemption. As a goddess of Redemption that's one of her flaws.

Also note that a mass revoking of all the CotD worshiper's powers (for those who haven't actually lost them yet) would be catastrophic for the areas they're in. Not just a simple "oh well, moving on."

And lastly conflict makes for good stories, and the schism in Sarenrae's faith and their opposition to Taldor has been building towards an AP for awhile, something the Developers have also hinted at.

When I first got into Golarion I wanted to make a follower of Sarenrae, a Paladin. But then I read about Qadira, and the city of Sedeq. That she's the Patron Goddess of the largest slave empire in the world.

Now I can accept the idea that her Church doesn't oppose the Padishah Empire, because they'd lose. The Empire would stop following Sarenrae's teachings at all, and things would likely get worse for the people. Okay. What I could not accept, in trying to make a follower of hers, was that she would then empower people that she knows are spreading this Empire of slavery, and taking more people in to this institution.

Not opposing it? Okay, I don't like it, but that's not supporting it.
Actively blessing people with divine power, when you know they will use it to help enslave others? That is supporting it.

I get the reasons why the developers wrote it that way, but the actions and in-actions of Sarenrae's church are infuriating to me.

there's no reason why hypocrisy can't exist in fantasy land...
Yeah. Honestly, it's a conflict of the status quo that's ripe for a player to come in as a reformist cleric and change the church. If I were a GM and a player expressed issues with their god and church, I'd tell them that they can attempt to adventure and...

Yes, the Sarenaite should be changed.

Should learn some lessons from those nice fellas in Nidal.


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Zaister wrote:
Jirelle isn't a pirate. She was selected as a kind of Robin Hood figure thought to be fitting the Nirmathas setting. The other three were chosen because they are the typical outdoors characters and this is something of an outdoors adventure path.

a swashbuckler is a pirate.

her character background is that of a pirate. She's a pirate.

I think it's cool that there's a pirate iconic, but it is probably best for the next AP, not this one.


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OOH OOH!

it fits in even better with Iron Gods for the start. After all, it's like... "well... someone's gotta go down that hole..."

The PCs are bartered for from Alling Third's chattel by the locals, and sent down the hole to find the guy who went down there and never came back. That covers them from 1-2.

3-4 aren't really well connected to 1-2, but someone like Alling Third would be more than happy to send out expendable dudes to go investigate the possibility of a rogue AI deity hidden in some computer chip.

Even the Electrolich wouldn't want Unity to take over the world, so they go finish up the campaign in 5-6... and the unusual nature of the final battle can free the PCs from their evil master and allow them freedom... or revenge.


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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Yakman wrote:

actually, i take that back.

druid
ranger
druid+ranger
pirate

nope. don't like it.

There are no arcane spellcasters in Nirmathas!

well... it's just three of largely the same thing.

one of them (hunter) is the blend of two others.

and one of them is a pirate.

nope.

i would have stuck in the bloodrager or the arcanist or the summoner or ANYTHING than the pirate. and dumped the druid and thrown in almost anything else.

save the pirate for azlant next AP.


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Nargemn wrote:
I believe there's an entire bio-dome inside of the Divinity which contains dinosaurs and Lashunta. I suppose it wouldn't be a stretch that some of these prehistoric beasts escaped those thousands of years ago and have bred in some of the more removed locations, such as the Felldales of the Scar of the Spider.

it's not mentioned in the campaign setting book, but if iirc, the Dinosaur Cavern in Orv is pretty close to being under Numeria.

No reason why a spaceship crash couldn't have opened up a fissure to the darklands, allowing dinosaurs (cyber and otherwise) to emerge from the earth to rampage.

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