So you do not want the staple claw-pouncer build, right? I combination I like is to start as a biped eidolon, take a bite attack, augment is as much as you can, and then use reach in combination with Combat Reflexes for battlefield control and damaging AoOs. A sample build at 5th lvl: Half-Elf STR 7
Feats: 1 Arcane Strick
Evolutions:
To add to gregory collony's oracle repertorium, an Aasimar lunar oracle with racial heritage (half-elf) can have: - A way overpowered Animal Companion, thanks to the aasimar alt. favored class bonus and the feat Celestial Servant.
I see it as the ultimate character ;)
I will also advice you to take the Evangelist archetype. The reach cleric tactic is the most optimised you could seek. Summoning does not demand high mental stats, so a 14 starting wisdom will suit you fine. Grab a longspear, take combat reflexes and pwoer attack, and use standard actions to summon and cast, while potiotioning in a way that you can force AoOs. What is your aligment? Improved Initiative is more improtant than both fey foundling and selective channeling, which are both subpar for your build IMO. Divine Interference is also anotehr must have feat you should try to take asap. Spell perfection is definately amazing but I doubt you can fit it in your build. Maybe as a 17th lvl feat for your last SMIX spell. EDIT: With a bard in the group vanilla cleric is probably ideal. Maximise will not work, as far as I can tell. Also, consider the Blackfire Adept PrC if you are serious about summoning. Enter at 9th lvl, so taht you benefit from the 8th lvl domain power. It may need some refluffing (actually i will need serious refluffing and replace many of its evil-associated abilities) but it is worth considering, evan as a 4th or 8th lvl dip.
You need agile maneuvers in order to add the dex mod to dirty trick CMB. Also, you definately want to incorporate in your build the new Dirty Trick Master feat.
I do not see why you should take any actions. It seems to be a problem that your GM should have with the rest of your group, not with you. If your GM does not want to tone down the encounters, there is nothing you can do to salvage the game. You already did your part, playing a mounted summoner and eliminating the action economy advantage regular summoners have. Just play as you like, point the problem to your GM and fellow players and see how it goes.
It is indeed a great archetype. Dreadful Carnage is a far better choice than Great Cleave for AoE intimidation. Take the Bruising Intellect trait. Now you intimidate based on your Intelligence, so you can safely dump your Charisma. My interpretation is that you use Intelligence for perform, correct me if you are sure I am wrong here. Your other trait should be Adopted (Helpful) for a bonus to Aid Another. It is better to take Lookout at 1st lvl and Outflank at 9th lvl as your teamwork feats IMO. With Outflank, having Combat Reflexes is mandatory too. You qualify for the battle Herald PrC at 6th lvl. I am not sure if it is worth it, but you should definately check it out.
Undine Flowing Monk 2 / Scout Rogue 10 STR 10
Alt. racial traits: Hydrated Vitality, Water Sense Traits: Bred for War, Defensive Strategist 1 Monk Weapon Finesse, Improved Trip
Untill you can afford an agile cestus, your damage will be mediocre unless you sneak attack. After the agile weapon though you will be pretty effective. I think that you will get it about lvl 6. Tactics:
Poisoner Scout Rogue 4 / Maneuver Master Monk 1 / Lore Warden Fighter 3 / Duelist 4 1 Rogue Weapon Finesse, Dodge
The bad news are that plant forms are generally weak, it is best to avoid them, at least as your in-combat buffs. Good news are that indeed a wood oracle is a great choice for a martial divine caster, especially in a low-magic campaign, it should work great. The first thing I will suggest is to be an aasimar and take the alternative favored class bonus for the wood armor revelation. This + magic vestment will let you have excellent AC throught the game. Second thing, if you want to optimise even further, start wit the racial heritage (half elf) feat, so that you can use paragorn surge. Then, take skill focus: any knowledge and eldrich heritage (arcane). This will give you access to a a familair, but more importantly by then you will be able to cast ANY arcane spell of your lvl by using paragorn surge and learning the improved eldrich heritage (arcane) feat. The must have revelations are the Wood Bond, Wood Weapon and Wood Armor, and you should eventually take the Thorn Burst (swift action) and Speak with Wood. You cannot have Power Attack at first lvl, it requires BAB +1. Take Improved Initiative instead. A great feat for anyone who want to buff himself before melee begins. Another must have feat at lvl 11 is Divine Interference. You really want the Fate's Favored trait, along with divine favor it is a +2/+2 bonus to attack and damage right from lvl 1. The point buy I would recommend: Angelkin Aasimar STR 18
If you do not like Int 7, make it 8 and drop wisdom to 10. Or Int 10 and Wis 8, your choice. At low lvls, using wood weapon for a quarterstaff with shillelagh is your best choice, bau after lvl six youc an alos use a longspear for reach. In this case I would consider to have combat reflexes by lvl 7 and prepare some Enlarge person. You will need to start with 14 Dex in order to work such tactic effectively, so I would recommend this stat array: Angelkin Aasimar STR 18
Your build is fine as it is, no need to cahnge anything. That being said... You may want to delay the exp: Great Terbutje, because at low lvls using a quarterstaff with Shillelagh is going to be more effective (especially if you couple it with enlarge person) and will not cost you a feat. I would also avoid Toughness, it is good but I consider that there are better choices that take priority. Improved Initiative is one, Intimidating Prowess is another. ALso I would definately want to have Divine Interference as soon as I qualify, and make sure that I have furious focus by the time I qualify for Dreadful Carnage. I would probably prefer to take me feats in this order: 1 Improved Initiative (great for someone who wants to cast Shillelagh or Divine favor before the melee begins)
You can aquire weapon focus through an opalescent green(?) pyramid, so it is not a big deal if you missed it, I find all the above feats to be better candidates for the feat slots. Fate's Favored is also a must-have trait for a battle-Oracle and I would rather have Unnatural presence over Bully, so taht I can demoralise more things. I can see that the Valashmai Veteran trait is both useful and thematic, but I find that the above two take priority. Mabe if your GM allows you to take an extra trait for a drawback? I assumed that it si not for PFS. If it is, you may want to consider staying with a quarterstaff and using shillelagh and greater magic weapon to keep it on par with your lvls. By doing this, you will have lots of money to spend on wondrous items as well.
With such a great stats, I would definately invest in intimidation. Swap the Wis and Cha score (or don't), and change greater sunder and exotic weap. proficiency with cornugon smash and intimidating prowess. You will make a hell of a debuffer! I would also prefer to have Lunge over Iron Will, as the msot dangerous enemies usually are large and you would provoke AoOs for getting near them. I would rely on magic items in order to fix me low willsave. So something like this: Furious Focus
Defender of the SOciety is certainly great, as is Indomitable Faith (Carefully Hidden is a little better though). You could go hardcore with sunder and take Bred for War for a bonus to CMB, but with the above setup I would prefer the bonus to Willsave because this will be your major weakness.
Be an Alchemist and take the Poison Conversion discovery. Take skills in craft (poison) skill and craft drow poison. Convert it too inhaled, the Master Alchemist helps. You do this because with inhaled poisons you can add multiple does at one go to raise its DC. From N. Jolly's guide: "There's only one type of poison worth using, and that's inhaled. Why's that? Because multiple doses of it add a +2 to the DC the opponent has to make. So just take your favorite low cost poison (Drow poison, if you please), make a metric ton of it, convert it to inhaled, put it all in a glass bottle, and huck it at someone to watch them make a stupidly high DC." Take the Celestial Poisons discovery at 8th lvl. Take the Sticky Poison discovery for the enemies that do not breath (undead for you, constructs are still immune). Malignant Poison discovery is a high lvl option. You can make poisoning work efficiently. Make sure you have a back up option though when you cannot use poisons effectively.
Reach cleric is the superior choice, but dervish dance can also be effective. How improtant is Dervish Dance for the build? Guided Hand is really more interestign for monks that dip cleric than for the clerics themselves. Not that it is a bad feat to use though, it is just that if you use save or suck spells you do not have time for melee, and if you primary buff and going melee you do not need have time for save or suck spells, So in any case, Guided Hand goes kind of wasted.
The Unbreakable fighter is only for 1-lvl dip. It loses weapon training and for situational bonuses that end up producing an inferior fighter. You definately want to invest in improved shieldbash so that you make your shield useful offensively, and then either the TWF and shieldmaster feats or just usw your shield two-handed for x1.5 Str to damage. The latter is the better choice for paladins with compel hostility,as they do not have enough feats to invest in TWF without losing on other useful feats like fey foundling.
If you have the dazing spell metamagic, fireball, fire snake or chain lighting become great choices. But for the typical caster Oracle I would pick: 0: Prestidigitation
The main draw of these spells is that they do not lose their value as you lvl up.
A lvl of Paladin will probably serve you better if you have at least 14 Cha. Even once per day, Smite is a great asset. The same goes for a Gendarme cavalier. Never mind about the mount, you get challenge once per day + power attack as a bonus feat like a fighter would have. After EK continue with Hellknight Signifer Another interesting option is replacing the martial lvl with one lvl of Oracle of Battle. You qualify with the skill at arms revelation and you get access to lvl 1 divine spells. Couple divine favor with the trait Fate's Favored and you have a fast +2/+2 attack and damage bonus. Then, after EK, continue with Mystic Theurge. You will end up with CL18 arcane and CL 9 divine. This is probably your best option. Do not forget to take Magical Knack (Sorcerer) too.
I think that after all having an arcane and divine caster with 9th lvl spells is the best thing for a party in the long run. Substitutions for the wizard include: - Sorcerer
Substitutions for the cleric include: - Oracle
Substitutions for the melee (much better options than the typical fighter): - Summoner (strongest option)
If you would rather have martials, in place of fighter you can have (still stronger options than the fighter usually): - Barbarian
Probably a bit weaker but still competitive to the fighter are: - Cavalier
For the skill monkey, instead of rogue you can have: - Bard (best choice by far)
Bear in mind that specific build optimization can alter the relative power of the classes.
The Bard and the Druid have nice racial archetypes for aquatic campaigns. A vanilla Druid is also good because of the stat boosts, as well as a dex-based Monk and a cleric. A sorcerer can take advantage of water affinity. A wizard has a great alternative favored class bonus. Also, an interesting option is taking 2 lvls of of Flowing Monk and continuing with Scout / Thug Rogue or Scout Ninja. Use a monk weapon with the agile property, make Dex your highest stat and take the feats Greater trip, fury's fall and viscious stomp. This way, every time you trip them you attack them twice and forcing them tomake two Reflex saves or become flat-footed. Procede with sneak attacking the hell out of them. A Cestus or a Kama will do the trick.
I would actually suggest to modify the Animal Ally feat and this way give your Fighter acces to a Hippogriff AC like the one of the Ranger. Remind him of the Dragoon archetype if he is into melee mounted combat, otherwise Weapon Master probably makes for the best fighter archer. And of course Boon Companion. Maybe make the feat have 5th lvl as a requirement and give you access to a hippogryph at your lvl -4 in order to preserve balance.
I will not comment on the fact that a feat chain that was situationaly overpowered got grounded into "suckdom" like the 90% of the published feats. Just give me a reason why anyone will want to play a single-handed Dex based fighter anymore. Maybe the Swashbuckler is THAT good, otherwise I just don't see it. And "flavor" as an answer does not count, I am referring to an actually effective build that carries its own weight. When I first saw Crane Wing, coming from 3.5, I thought that "the devs know what they are doing, they managed to make the one-handed combat style competitive". I guess now I am being proved wrong. Erick Wilson, I guess that the fact that you never play full casters made you have this impression about crane wing. Also, what is this prase supposed to mean: "My friend has a Paladin/Bard that is even more beastly, and again the Crane tree made it possible, and it shouldn't be possible." You actually mean that you support a decision that makes the imbalances of the game even more severe? The two-lvl MoMS dip was the only thing "unbalanced" in the situation. Crane wing was a becon in the darkness of the feat mediocrity that every DnD edition has. It had its issues, but instead of properly adjusting it it just got shot down. In its current state, it could just get deleted for all I care.
+1 Nodachi / Falchion and a Handy Hoversack. Buying a masterwork Full plate (Hellknight plate even better) is an alternative to a Handy Hoversack. If you really want a shield, take a quickdraw shield and the feat quickdraw at 5th lvl, along with a scimitar. You can attack by wielding the scimitar two-handed, and before ending your turn you can draw your shield as a free action for the AC boost. Then on your turn sheathe the shield as a free action. Rince and repeat. It is a bit cheesy, but is is the only condition I would use a shield with your paladin. Losing the x1.5 Str to damage hurts a lot.
Wish is actually better in a scroll for an emergency. I would take either Mage’s Disjuntion or Time Stop. If you realy a lot on buffs, conj spells and summoning, the alter will serve better, giving you the time to set the battlefield and buff your companions with ease. If you are a more offensive caster, Mage's Disjunction will let you lower both their offence and defence by dispelling their buffs and making their magic items inactive. This will probably mean lower saves to, so you can dish out the pain with save or suck spells.
A cleric using a reach weapon and Sacred Summons for standard action summoning is mechanically the superior choice for a martial divine caster. This is something that no Oracle can do because they do not qualify for Sacred Summons. If you do not want to focus on summoning though, an Oracle of Battle is IMO the strongest melee divine battle-caster.
Check this build. My modifications in order to make it a cleric of Torag. Domains: Good and Protection Traits: Sacred Conduit, Fortune's Favored
Is it a point buy? If yes, what? The strategy is to use a warhammer and a quickdraw shield until lvl 11, when you take falcata proficiency. Falcata is nice because of the Divine Wrath feature of HV.
On a more general note, if they are 3 melees, what they need most is an arcane support and not a martial healer. A wizard focusing on battlefield control, buffing and de-buffing will be much more useful in the long run. And you can still have a wand of infernal healing for covering the out-of-combat healing needs. The same goes for the Sorcerer and the Summoner too. In addition, the Witch has access to both Infernal healing and cure light wounds.
Chengar Qordath wrote:
It is not that I entirelly disagree, but I will add some comments: - As a mentioned before, you should repay your players one way or another with what they lost, especially if this happens fairly often (which probably shouldn't) - You can judge every particular circumstance as a DM and see just how useless the players will be with sundered weapons, but creating a lingering fear is not a bad thing, as long it does not happen again and again. - Actually, a caster that had his spell component pouch or his bonded item sundered is into deep s**t. A fighter can always use a mundane backup weapon, the caster is just a glorified commoner until he make up for the loses after the battle.
It is too subjective to say which is the most fun. I will just say that generally an optimized barbarian or paladin is stronger than the other martials. On the other hand, ranger may need to try harder in order to reach the DPR of other martials, but it does not fall much behind with clever FE choices, they are easy to build as they take standard feats from their combat style, they are low-point buy friendly and they have many skill points and useful abilities for a variety of situations, in or out of battle. Finally, fighters deserve a mention because they are the "sandbox build style" class of PF, allowing the biggest variety on character builds because of the many more feats they can obtain. I suggest that you avoid monks and rogues, as they are inherently weaker than the other "true" martials and need better system mastery in order to achieve the same lvls of effectiveness. From the base / alternate classes, there is cavalier (I suggest to avoid him because of his increased complexity compared to the fighter, it is an underated class IMO though) and the samurai (most straight-forward and durable than the standard cavalier, you are welcome to take a look even if they are not an ideal newbie choice). Samurai is also an alternate and a bit improved version of the rogue. Still not strong enough as the other "true" martials, but if you are into the rogue, you will certainly do better with the Ninja instead. They even do in most cases better unarmed builds than a Monk, even though the best unarmed martial builds involve mostly a Fighter archetype. This is a general commentary, power levels (and fun factor) may, or better will, vary according to each specific build.
Galeena, the Conqueror Ooze and Hikari Shining-Fist make for some really powerful unarmed strike builds. For pure monk builds, zen archer is probably the strongest. Sohei is also a seriously strong archetype that can have great results with very early access at mounted combat feats or as an archer after 6th lvl. For an unarmed monk-only build martial artist is probably your best bet, with access to several immunities, an ability to bypass DR and access to fighter-only feats. You can also build a great martial artist using a sansetsukon. Hungry-Ghost monk also deserves special mention, coupled with a temple-sword it can make a really strong character. Tetori makes for the best grappler in game. Sure Lore Warden and Brutal Pugilist raise a bigger CMB and CMD, but they lack the special features that tetori enjoys and they rely heavily on magic items. Drunken master is not particularly strong, but it does give access to drunken ki, which can be translated in infinite ki with the proper investment. Finally Qinggong monk should always be considered. Some qinggong powers are excellent. Ki leech comes to mind.
The Musetouched Aasimar is the best choice, followed by Human. They both have great alternate favored class bonuses. I suggest the Chelish Diva archetype for a caster/ supporter bard. You can eventually cast in heavy armor, you have bonuses to your social skills according to your fame, you can increase the saving throw of your performances and you can send one enemy frightened with no attack roll, intimidate check or saving throw. Very powerful archetype overall. For feats you certainly want Lingering Performance at 1st lvl and Discordant Voice at 11th lvl. Other good choices include Flagbearer and Harmonic Sage. After these, you can take Spell Focus: Enchantment and Greater or Point-Blank Shot / Precise Shot for a bow. If you go with Chelish Diva (which I recommend) you will need more Str for the heavier armor, so going melee is a nice possibility. A longspear for reach is a great choice. If you could combine it with Power Attack and Combat Reflexes it is even better, but it is not necessary. For such a build, Angelkin Aasimars make for the best choice. You could go like this for a longspear wielding chelish diva: Angelkin Chelish Diva Traits: Ear for Music, Mastro of the Society, Reactionary (choose 2 of them) STR 16
1 Lingering Performance
This way you can combine the best of both worlds, you will be a great caster and be able to deal damage and control the battlefield when you run out of casting too. I ignored Arcane Strike, as you are going to use your swift actions for altering performances from the mid lvls onwards.
Keep your warden 8-headed hydra, but add 5 Boggard Hopping Warpriests to the fight. Hydras usually live in marshes, so it makes sence that these boggards worship it as a god and the hydra tolerates them because they feed it. It will make for a more interesting fight, without risking one-shoting the party with a stronger boss.
I had made this build before. I houseruled though that the cabalist magus casts with Charisma. Elemental knight is a fine archetype. The INT penalty of the Sulis holds it back from shining. Suli Cabalist Elemental Knight Magus 12 / Dragon Disciple 8 STATS:
Traits: Magical Lineage (Frostbite), Outlander: Lore Seeker 1 Magus Rime Spell
A better stat array would be: STR 16
Avoid mixing Zen archer and fighter. Both make for great archers, I don't see the appeal of multiclassing between them though. Weapon master fighter is fine for a singel classed archer, a good dip however is two lvls of Urban Barbarian / Invulnerable rager Barbarian. Rage and increase your Dex, use Reckless Abandon for even more accuracy. I believe that you are still better by going straight fighter. Also, with Improved Snap Shot you do not want to avoid melee, you actively seeking to be just outside your enemies' reach for more AoOs. Here is a sample build: Weapon Master Fighter 10 / Lantern Bearer 10 1 Fighter Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Skill Focus: Perception
Favored class bonus to health every lvl. You will see that I have put Deadly Aim and Manyshot very late inti the build. This is not becaus ethey are not good (they are), but i find more important to have Improved Snap Shot and its prereqs by ninth lvl, and then Improved precise shot becomes available and point blank master is essential if you are going into melee range.
Play a Weapon Master qinggong drunken master monk. Drunken ki is very useful so that you can use your ki many more times than normal monks do. The best weapon to use is the temple sword with its 19-20 critical threat range, if eastern weapon are allowed. Otherwise quarterstaff it is. Check this build for ideas. Half Orc Weapon Master Qinggong Drunken master Monk 20pb STR 16 (+1 at 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th lvl)
Alt racial traits: Sacred Tattoo, Shaman's Apprentice 1 Perfect Strike (bonus), Dodge (bonus) Endurance (bonus), Drunken Brawler
Choose health lvl bonus every lvl. See Treantmonk and Revel's guide for useful items. Buy a belt of mighty constitution +2 asap so that you can qualify for Fast Drinker at 5th lvl. Other than, buying a wand of mage armor and giving it to your party caster to cast it on you will save your butt many times. Drink as a swift action for temporary ki and hp, fight defensively for the crane style bonuses and spend your ki wisely (usually barkskin, extra attack on full-attacks and Drunken Strength at standard action attacks). I purposely exchanged Abundant step at 12th lvl, because you need at least Dimentional Agility to make it useful in battle. Without it you must end your actions after you teleport, shuting down any offensive potential a teleport could grant you. If you ever make it to 19th lvl you are going to really enjoy dimentional dervish. |
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