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1st off society scenarios are a 4-5 hour thing ... not 4 ... the guide even gives language to support 5 hour slots
I think a lot of people forget this, heck even my FLGS tries to fit things into a 4 hour slot, the sad part is that it generally ends up cheating the players out of an hour of play and a lot of times out of a fame / PA / gold
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I don't recall any specific prohibitions, but it has been clarified that you CANNOT run a 7 player table of these scenarios. As such, I would say no doubling of pregens, especially in 6-98.
ya I hadn't seen the clarification part but that's the way Ive been running it as is
like I said I could see 6-99 being able to without breaking things Too badly ... but 6-98 would truly destroy the story
prepping to run these today and had a question come up that Ive not had before with these 2 - and Ive run them both at least twice before
doubling up on pregens
in Serpents Rise I would absolutely say no due to the way the scenario is written and and the story behind it
but True dragons is a bit different and TECHICNACLY I could see it as possible ... my Gut says no ... but there is some logicality to it
Ya I'm hoping John can swing through real quick like and say if they can or cannot work together to reduce the phases
Also that talent makes perfect sense the way it is I don't see any way of making 12 min crafting into 6 ....I'd say it's stretching it to say the least translating l1 round into 1 phase (6min)
I actually did mess up on my math a bit
50k for a +5 - 49 fame = Min 9th
and yes it skews even farther if you calculate based on 5 PA / level (50/60 at 10th level)
I'm going to have to look for the old WBL Charts from when out of tier was introduced to compare that
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Regarding your zen archer exampple,
guess I should have been more clear ... it was a combination of this thread and the fact that I just bought that bow that made me think about it ... Zen Archer comparisons have been done here ... was commenting on the thought process that brought me to this point
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
EDIT: So arcane bond allows you to have a +7 weapon once you have 63 fame (something that might happen when you are level 11( if you have been quite lucky and haven't played too many modules) and a + 6 weapon once you have 58 fame which is unlikely to happen until you reach level 11.
+6 is minimum 9th lvl - assuming 6PA/level+7 is Minimum 10th lvl - assuming 6PA / level
+8 is minimum 11th lvl - asuming 6PA/level
+9 and 10 are both 12th level
couple of Counterpoints and questions
A) Im assuming Spell blending is whats used to get named bullet ? because the issue with this way is you must be lvl 12 in order to that spell (Arcana gained vs Spell level) if Im wrong please let me know
B) Staff of Many Rays - even if we assume it works (I have yet to dig into this) Id Like to point this out
Recharging Staves wrote:
Staves hold a maximum of 10 charges. Each spell cast from a staff consumes one or more charges. When a staff runs out of charges, it cannot be used until it is recharged. Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots, he can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff is on his spell list and he is capable of casting at least one of the spells. Imbuing a staff with this power restores one charge to the staff, but the caster must forgo one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the highest-level spell cast by the staff.
so your saying your going to spend 57k for 3 Shots ? because you cant recharge it with scrolls
I admit I was all behind this archtype being legal when I found out about it ... but then I started thinking about the Arcane bond because I just got my Zen Archer a +5 bow
the cost of a +5 adaptive Bow is 51,400 with fame requirement of 49 (Minimum of 9th level assuming 6 Fame every level)
when you apply the benifits of Arcane bond to this ... you have a final Gold cost of 25,500 for enchantment upgrade costs ...
I don't remember the WBL Charts well enough that came out around the time out of tier was introduced ... but I Imagine a +5 or better weapon Buries that chart even at its most abused amount
yes I realize Ring of protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, 4th level Spell Wands, and some staves (tho as noted above staves need to be rechargeable) also skew WBL in much the same way - but I think this is actually worse
I really would like to Argue for this Archtype ... but because of this fact alone ... I don't think I could support it being included as a legal option in PFS
I and 1 other GM ran this at a local con over the weekend and We were both asked 1 question that was Identical
"Can we work together on a multi phase trap to complete it quicker"
there is nothing about that in the rules for it so we both said no .. but since both of us got this question it makes sense to ask here was this intended .. or an oversight ?
My songs know what you did in the dark
hi ... not sure if there is anything in Ogdon ... but Logan has games at toad and tricycle
Utah county has Dragons Keep in Lehi and Provo and some (Rarely) in Orem)
check out the warhorn here
and the facebook group here
also know we have an event coming up in October at demolition games in SLC
ya Ive spent time studying your thread and it is a fairly different situation as yours is a regular games day
I have had a situation where a game was all the way to the last encounter and we had a player leave (which would have caused a tier change) but since you cant retier a game 85% of the way through ... ya
this is hypothetical only but Id like to know how to handle this
not getting into the whys or the hows ... just a simple "what do I do"
if 2 players leave a 5 or 4 man table at the tail end of the scenario (under an hour left) leaving it at 3 or worse 2 players obviously breaking legality what do you do
Andrew Roberts wrote:
Andrew please reread the conversation I was not referring to true dragon's or serpents rise ....I was only referring to what John said about bonekeep 2 being a 4 star exclusive
What I said is 100% acurate as it pertains to the standard
True dragon's and serpents rise are the exception
Francis Webb wrote:
4 star exclusive is just that .... it can now be run by any of the Following
4 star GM
Let the bodies hit the floor
examples of previous 4 star exclusives are
Midnight mauler in Season 2
Encounter 1 -During Combat:
The gnolls initially try to avoid permanentlydamaging any of their slaves, but the more damage the
gnolls sustain, the more lethal they become.
Same text at both tiers
Encounter 2 -During Combat:
Farug uses lethal force to quell any serious
slave uprising, and he switches to nonlethal attacks if it
seems clear that he’s winning the fiht. He barks commands
at his subordinates and tends to get frustrated when they
can’t match his tactical cunning
The gnolls follow Farug’s lead and deal
Same text at both tiers
leaves quite a lot to gm interpretation IMHO tho if you were getting rolled as hard as it sounds then - yes I agree
having just played this on thursday and running out of time my guess is stagnation on the 1st encounter spot or simply saying "Ive had it with the treatment"
I know when we went on the offensive things sped up SIGNIFIGANTLY
IMHO if a GM makes a mistake its on the GM to fix it if possible
I have 2 different examples from personal experience both times I was a GM
1st was Legacy of the stonelords at paizocon last year, a PC Died at my table and even I wasnt 100% Comfortable with how it happened, I decided to research things over the next several hours even into the next day
2nd was during a Bonekeep game - I had killed a PC in 1 particular encounter, later while discussing it with some people a friend of mine reminded me of how the mechanic that killed the player actually worked,
I do agree that weeks later on a public forum is probably a bit late to the party
tho I would beg for more details ... what was the option presented to you from the HQ Table ? I dont think Ive seen that listed
so I dont mean to shamlessly bump this .. but is there any update on this as of yet ?
also is there any word on if / when bonekeep 2 will become open to 4 and 5 star GM's .. I have a group in another city still waiting on word about this - they played part 1 under me and have characters on hold for part 2
BNW no offense but I never said you hated them ... I Paraphrased what you said
its ok if its a low level Monk (or 8 and lower)
thats about the most hypocritical stance Ive ever seen
and what do you call it by allowing it for 8 and lower Monks but not for 9+ if not punative
you also Chose to avoid answering the situaion I presented to you
7th lvl Monk Aborts Flurry - by your interpretation your going to let it slide
what happens when they are both at your table
its really odd I cannot reply to your entire post
Ok, so what logic reason and rules basis make many shot works the way that they clarified?
I'm at a loss as to what difference in wording you're getting here.
When Making a Full Attack Actionvs.
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action
very different Wording ... one IS .. the other happens WHEN
we have provided Raw for you - numerous timesyou have to make a full attack in order to get multiple attacks, but can abort the rest of your attacks based on the result of the 1st Regardless of the method by which you get multiple attacks
and its your interpretation because you dont like it .... and regardless of saying your not trying to punish anyone for being outside of that ... by using this Stance that IS in-fact exactly what your doing what are you gonna tell the table of 2 monks (7 and 9) having the lvl 7 abort an attack but when the 9 tries you say "Nope you get a benifit to attack from flurry" that wont go over well at all
Allow me to rearrange this for organizational stuff
IF those are the only rules you look at then yes. But you cannot call other positions ridiculous when you only look at rules that agree with you and not the rules that agree with the other position
Manyshot had Wording that forced it to only be useable as part of full attack action, Rather than it being its own Full attack action (such as FoB, Rapid, TWF, Iteratives) and as far as I was concerned Manyshot Locked you into a full attack action (and the FAQ Clarified this). While other full attack actions (FoB, TWF, Iteratives, Spell Combat, Rapid Shot) were convertable to a standard after the 1st attack - As per the Rules
Im sorry but as much as you would like to think I am ignoring "Rules that agree with other positions" (Like you are) Im not ... Manyshot is an exception to the standard , not the standard itself
So now the burden of proof is on you ... Find me some RAW with source that States if you gain a bonus from a full attack you cannot abort and take a move, find me Raw that says "Manyshot is the standard not the exception" because others are looking and not finding it.. As far as I know there is no RAW supporting the "Bonus no move" Thought process ...as far as I can tell this is a fabricated rule
Is ANYONE arguing against being able to stop after the first iterative attack? No, so this isn't a genuine counter argument.
the Slippery slope argument - as you call it - Started as Sarcasam -however your Cherry Picking of the paragraph has given the Sarcastic comments Legitimacy
Specifically - no, no one is arguing the abortion of iterative attacks, tho you are Cherry picking the Paragraph and applying Raw to one of Several listed ways of gaining multiple attacks, - Which the Rule doesn't care how you get them, only if you have them - not the Whole if it therefore by your interpretation becoming punative to anyone gaining multiple attacks through means other than BAB.
Once you look at the Rule as a whole(Rather than only the parts you dont like) this is indeed a genuine counter argument - I would prefer to not have to Legitimatly go down this path TBH - but this Debate is Trollbait and has been from the start
Will you be applying the same penalties to TWF, Iterative, FoB, Rapid Shot because if you don't then you are applying rules you like / dont like because likely as claudekennilol said "I think it might be too powerful so I'm saying no"?
I dont see any other legitimate interpretation of this
--------All 4 Allow multiple attacks "because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason."
Also Note the above Rule Does not Differentiate between the source of multiple attacks ...
--------All 4 are Full attack actions
the entirety of this is stated under "Full attack" in the combat section.This is RAW, and any change to this would only be because we do not like it or disagree with it
Is the position that you can't break off if your action requires you to full attack or gain a bonus from full attacking stopping iteratives? No.
as I mentioned above there is no differentiation on the Source of the attacks ... only "do you gain multiple attacks"
and as far as the "bonus no move" what about power attack, expertise, Critical Focus, deadly aim, .. if you use those are used in a full attack are you specifically precluded from breaking off and taking a move action - you ARE gaining a bonus... your Logic Not mine
the FAQ is based on Logic, Reason and basis....to Manyshot which noone is arguing how it works anymore.The FAQ doesnt even Touch FoB, Rapid Shot, TWF (or Spell combat) nor does it even pretend to
this is splitting hairs over a +1 at 9,13,and 17 - and since I know this argument started from PFS its basically a +1 at 9 and MAYBE at 13
Sorry BNW ... there was a lot of Sarcasam involved because of the ridiculousness of this
Flurry is Termed as
so by those Rules listed in Monk and whats listed above ... you SHOULD be able to Cancel the remainder. particuarly since we only have 1 instance of something saying you Can't cancel it (Manyshot)
and if you look again ... even iterave attacks are called out as well so its not as slippery a slope as you may think - the slippery part is NOT allowing cancellation because it then becomes punitive decisions to Monks, TWF, Magus and anyone else that gain multiple attacks through Truthfully - anything
also under the logic of "Bonus no move" come power attack, Expertise, Deadly aim, fight defensivly, full defense, Critical focus feats, etc..
pretty straightforward IMHO .... tho I suppose if you want to follow this logic down its ultimate path any of the above mentioned situations (particuarly since they are lumped together in the description of Full attack) "because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason" you would be excluded from taking a move action after the 1st attack - you know whats good for the goose is good for the gander and all
and you could even take it farther and argue that iterive attacks fall into this as well and makes the Rule about canceling the rest of your attacks a worthless rule that doesn't do anything
edit - quote is from srd due to ease of copy paste
Bottom Line - unless they are an aasimar with Scion of humanity ... they are outsiders(Native) and target humanoid doesnt work on themand no Faq is required for that ... just look at the entry in the beastiary
are you the GM or player
if your the GM then the burden of Proof is on them
is this Rule actually affecting you as a character in a negative way ? if so then I would say leave or contact a VO in your area .. not much they can do about it other than say "Hey- do your research"
if not - meh let it slide ... or better yet point them to this thread .. IIRC the ONLY thing Mike brock commented on was FCB Stuff but its been over a year
but the "Scion of Humanity is useless and does nothing" that just shows a lack if intelligence IMHO
#1 is Correct
Aasimars have an alternate Racial Trait called Scion of Humanity that makes THEM subject to the spells listed above (it specifically makes them count as humanoid)
however they are the only ones with that option
so as Scion of humanity says Humanoid(Human) - YES .. Bane / favored enemy Human does work on them - but ONLY them (not Tiefling or the elemental races) and ONLY if they have that Trait
Furthermore - only Aasimars with that trait may take Human Favored class bonuses as well