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Weirdo's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 4,660 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 alias.


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Shadow Lodge

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Another vote for cohort, with the PC learning to speak Vegepygmy being very advisable.

Though there's no real reason the Thorny couldn't also learn to understand Common. One could even just buy it a flawed Gold Nodule ioun stone keyed to Common for 1000gp.

Shadow Lodge

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Animal resists your spell as normal. If affected, you then use an opposed charisma check to determine which orders the animal obeys.

Multiple Mental Control Effects

Sometimes magical effects that establish mental control render each other irrelevant, such as spells that remove the subject's ability to act. Mental controls that don't remove the recipient's ability to act usually do not interfere with each other. If a creature is under the mental control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys.

Shadow Lodge

The ice queen doesn't sound too campaign specific - it's a pretty iconic concept.

That said I can see why it would be difficult to recycle for your own players without them remembering the previous ice queen BBEG.

I might steal it for my game, though. :)

Shadow Lodge

I was beginning to suspect that, but I was thrown off by your statement that you "completely disagreed."

Because when I'm saying:
"These two archetypes are more casters than they are martial - if you want to be a frontliner go for Paladin instead of Feyspeaker."

Complete disagreement is more:
"Magical Child//Feyspeaker character absolutely could be as good a frontliner as the Magical Child//Paladin."

"Don't write off this character's martial potential just because casting is its biggest strength."

Charon Onozuka wrote:
Magical Child/Paladin: Full BAB, d10 hit die, and +CHA to saves is probably the best option for stats, not to mention the healing. My biggest concerns are alignment restriction (limiting vigilante’s dual alignment) and wasting medium/heavy armor proficiency (as Magical Child spells are arcane and take spell failure above Light Armor). Especially since that without better armor options, being on the frontlines will probably be more dangerous.

I just remembered this, but your medium armour proficiency isn't entirely wasted since it means that as soon as you can afford it you can wear a mithral breastplate without penalty (it counts as light armour for purposes of class limitations including spell failure).

Shadow Lodge

It's not just low Dex. The sapling's starting Nat AC is lower than the carnivorous flower and crawling vine. It's tied for best Nat AC with the vine after the 4th level advancement, but it's weird that the natural AC bonus isn't the highest by at least 1 or 2 points for the entire advancement.

And while we're talking about the treant, why the heck does it have not just a climb speed, but a better climb speed than the vine?

Shadow Lodge

I feel you. My players talked their way through 2/3rds of a dungeon once, by convincing the minions that were supposed to be harassing the party through murder holes and such that it was important they see the person in charge...

Save the encounter, you might be able to tweak and re-use it someday.

Shadow Lodge

Deighton Thrane wrote:
Weirdo wrote:

I think it's about how you develop your character concept and how much control over that concept you like to have.

If you enjoy using random elements to get your creative juices flowing, and aren't set on any particular kind of character, rolling stats in order is great!

However if you start a game with even a basic concept already drawn up, rolling stats in order can be a pain...

Except that you can still use random elements with point buys, like rolling d6s to determine your primary stat, possibly your secondary and tertiary stats, even a dump stat, then build a character accordingly. You can even randomly roll a die to see what stat array you might use. So someone can still randomly make a character in point buy, but someone who knows what they want to make has no choice but to abide by the dice with roll 3d6. Meaning that both players can get what they want with one option, but only one players gets what they want with the other.

Sure, you can find ways to introduce optional randomness into character creation. But then you're really just accounting for the fact that some players really want to roll their stats in order and others really want point buy.

Shadow Lodge

The Mortonator wrote:
Weirdo wrote:
The Mortonator wrote:
It won't be a Gestalt level front liner

And that's the problem.

Yes, getting 3/4 BAB and vigilante abilities make up the combat difference between a Feyspeaker and a normal druid. But in a gestalt campaign you're not balancing against a single-classed character, you're balancing against other gestalt frontliners.

By typical martial/caster I was not comparing it to a Druid. I was thinking like the classic Fighter/Wizard where your other half is a more caster focused caster. On the martial side, this is basically a Vigilante that gives specialization for buffing. They have the amazing defenses and offensives of illusion school, well above average talents, and a slightly nerfed Wild Shape.

Fighter//Wizard may be "classic" but it's frankly a bad gestalt in terms of power. The wizard defenses are less fantastic when you realize that you're also unarmoured without a passive AC boost, few of your offensive abilities are synergistic, and your action economy is poor.

On the martial side, the Magical Child//Feyspeaker runs like a druid that has 2 levels delay in Wild Shape and gets 5 Vigilante Talents - which are nice but not super amazing, maybe worth 2 feats each - and a strong opening move in the appearance feature. And yes, you can grab Mirror Image as a level 3rd spell or just cast Blur or Displacement as a Magical Child for a little extra defense. But if you are comparing yourself to any half-decent actually martial gestalt in the party you will be disappointed by your damage output. Seriously, I'm playing an Unchained Monk//Alchemist (full BAB, flurry, Mutagen, Enlarge Person) and am still having trouble dealing as much damage as the party Cavalier//Oracle, not to mention the Barbarian//Ranger and Samurai//Rogue.

The offensive illusion spells - plus the buckets of offensive conjuration and transmutation spells from the combined lists - are a reason to play primarily as a caster, not as a martial.

Which is again not to say you have to give up on martial stuff entirely. This character has martial weapon proficiency and a 25 point buy and could easily get a post-racial 18 in Cha for 10 points plus a post-racial 17, 14, 13 in physical stats for a respectable secondary martial role, probably Dex-based with Lethal Grace or a reach build.

The Mortonator wrote:
Compared to a Magical Child/normal Druid it's not giving up much for a lot of returns.

Yes, that's exactly why I recommended it in the first place. But as a primary caster and at-best secondary martial damage dealer.

Shadow Lodge

Inquisitor does get some pretty nice combat abilities for the Brawler - bane is great with Brawler's flurry - and I love the utility.

But if you're the only healer then the party will really appreciate a cleric. I tried to be the party healer as an Inquisitor (our primary healer dropped out of the game) and trying to fill that role was frustrating.

I don't think you necessarily need access to all condition removal spells as soon as they're available but you don't want to be struggling to deal with poison at level 10.

Shadow Lodge

The Mortonator wrote:
It won't be a Gestalt level front liner

And that's the problem.

Yes, getting 3/4 BAB and vigilante abilities make up the combat difference between a Feyspeaker and a normal druid. But in a gestalt campaign you're not balancing against a single-classed character, you're balancing against other gestalt frontliners.

And no, it's not even going to be as strong in combat as a typical Martial//Caster. Pretty much any other Full BAB//Druid gestalt will be stronger. Fighter//Druid gets full BAB, tons of bonus feats, weapon training, and wild shape. Barbarian//Druid gets full BAB, RAGE, and Wild Shape. Slayer//Druid gets full BAB, studied target, sneak attack, and Wild Shape. Cavalier//Druid gets full BAB, challenge, and charging bonuses (with wild shape pounce!). Even some partial BAB//Druids will be stronger, like the Inquisitor//Druid (judgment, bane, solo tactics, wild shape) or Monk//Druid (Feral Combat Training=flurry with gigantic bite, Wis to AC). Keep in mind that since these combos don't need Feyspeaker for stat synergy, they get Wild Shape without the 2 level delay.

Heck, an Avenger Vigilante//Feyspeaker Druid would be a competent frontliner. But Magical Child loses half their vigilante talents in exchange for spellcasting. It also doesn't gain access to unique combat talents like the avenger's Unkillable, Signature Weapon, or Mad Rush.

Which is not to say that the Feyspeaker//Magical Child couldn't pick up a weapon. It's just not a great plan A for this combination, and there are way better ways to do combat with a Magical Child gestalt.

Shadow Lodge

Charon Onozuka wrote:
Magical Child/Paladin: Full BAB, d10 hit die, and +CHA to saves is probably the best option for stats, not to mention the healing. My biggest concerns are alignment restriction (limiting vigilante’s dual alignment) and wasting medium/heavy armor proficiency (as Magical Child spells are arcane and take spell failure above Light Armor). Especially since that without better armor options, being on the frontlines will probably be more dangerous.

The armour is a bit of a pain. You could always go for a Dex build to have good AC in light armour. Div and Rahskasa tiefling heritage would be good for this as they give +Dex +Cha. Take Weapon Finesse at level 1, and either the Lethal Grace talent at 2 or Dervish Dance at 3; Fencing/Slashing Grace are too feat heavy for this build.

Charon Onozuka wrote:
Magical Child/Feyspeaker Druid: I’ll admit, I’ve never actually played a druid before, so this might be a fun opportunity to do so. Nature Bond looks like a nice way to add a bit of elemental abilities (as GM would probably throw something at me for having both a familiar + animal companion) and having wildshape alongside the Vigilante’s Dual Identity (+things like Many Guises) seems like it could make them into a master of transformations. My biggest concerns here are my lack of familiarity with the Druid’s spell list + capabilities and how well the class is able to put their weight damage-wise prior to Wildshape.

The druid in general does OK for damage prior to Wildshape. However this particular gestalt build should not be focused on damage, since the Feyspeaker is a casting archetype, not a combat archetype, and the Magical Child doesn't do much to help it out in that respect. A Feyspeaker Magical Child should be the one standing in the back, confusing her enemies by shrouding them in fog, covering the ground in grease or making the plants come to life; granting her allies the boons of flight or haste; calling up walls of thorns to block attackers or cut off retreat. Check out this guide, specifically the Wild Mystic and spells section, for an idea of how to play this kind of character.

If you are interested in being a bruiser then definitely go for Paladin or Bloodrager as your second class. As for bloodrager...

Charon Onozuka wrote:
Amusingly enough, I did consider the Spelleater archetype for the Bloodrager (eat own spells for healing), though I'm unsure if I like the idea of losing the ability to use Summoner spells when bloodraging.

Mad Magic is here to help.

Charon Onozuka wrote:
I notice that the Tiefling alt racial trait Pass for Human mentions that they don't need to make a Disguise check to appear human, but what is the normal DC for trying to appear human without this trait? I'm planning to have the character try to appear human while in social form, hiding minor demonic features under her clothes (wings, tail) so that they can reveal themselves as a Tiefling only during their Magical Girl form. As such, I'm wondering how difficult the disguise check would be & if it's worth it taking social grace (social talent) in order to boost my Disguise check more (or if I should apply it to a different skill instead).

There is no specific DC - it's opposed by an observer's Perception check. You'd get a -2 penalty for disguising yourself as another race. You'd probably fool most people with decent skill investment, but eventually someone would almost certainly identify you as a tiefling. However, your Seamless Disguise bonus might apply here - if your social identity is human, then appearing human is part of appearing to be in your social identity - so check with your GM. And even if your social identity is outed as a tiefling, that doesn't necessarily mean people will make the connection with your vigilante identity.

Charon Onozuka wrote:
Additionally, considering that the animal guide gets to change forms at 3rd, 5th, and 7th levels and can then access all of the previous forms at 9th level, what would be a good progression of Improved Familiars to go through in order to have a wide variety of abilities available at 9th level? Keep in mind that I'm planning to take the Sage familiar archetype and that all Improved Familiar forms need to be within a step of the Magical Girl's alignment (which I haven't fully decided on yet, but means you couldn't bounce form an LE familiar to a CG familiar in the same build).

At 3rd level you're probably looking at a Celestial animal (or whatever alignment type you want).

At 5th level I'd probably take a Brownie if you're within a step of TN. (Note: thematic for a feyspeaker!) If you're CG there's the Sprite; If you're LE or CE the Isitoq. I can't find a single 5th level familiar within a step of LG, which seems problematic for this archetype. I think the wording makes the 5th level upgrade optional.

At 7th level the Silvanshee is pretty boss for a LG or TN character. A CG or CN could also take the Lyrakien or Faerie Dragon, and a NG magical girl gets choice of all three! Imp probably the best choice for a LN, LE, or NE vigilante, and Quasit for the CE.

Shadow Lodge

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quantum Steve wrote:
The question is: "Is being able to go into a rage, the same as having the 'Rage Class Feature'?"
Since it says as a barbarian and barbarians have it as a rage class feature i don't see the counter argument.

Producing the same result as something that is a class feature doesn't make it a class feature.

If I'm affected by Bestow Grace of the Champion I don't have the Smite Evil class feature, even though I can use Smite Evil "as a paladin."

Similarly Agathions get Lay On Hands as a paladin, but as a racial feature, not a class feature, meaning they don't by RAW qualify for feats like Extra Lay On Hands.

That said I would absolutely allow it as a GM. I just wouldn't try it for PFS.

Shadow Lodge

Scythia wrote:
Akharus wrote:
Kahel Stormbender wrote:
I've long favored 3d6 down the line for stats. But then I started with 2nd edition AD&D. I find it creates more organic characters...
Maybe it's a second edition thing. That's where I started, too.
Sorry. I started with 2nd edition as well, and I disliked 3d6 in order after the first game I ran. Second game was 3d6 arrange, and 3rd was 4d6 drop lowest arrange. :P

I think it's about how you develop your character concept and how much control over that concept you like to have.

If you enjoy using random elements to get your creative juices flowing, and aren't set on any particular kind of character, rolling stats in order is great!

However if you start a game with even a basic concept already drawn up, rolling stats in order can be a pain -
Qaianna's barbarian being an example. The more detailed the concept the less likely the random stats will cooperate. Like if I want to play a big beefy guy (high Str) who trips over his words (low Cha) and has always been stereotyped as the "dumb brute" but is actually pretty smart (decent Int) - that's three potential points of failure.

Shadow Lodge

I'm surprised you get the Mimicry ability at all. It doesn't seem to fit with the other things that polymorph gives you, thematically or mechanically.

Shadow Lodge

Since eidolons aren't spellcasters and can't craft magical items, Alchemy is probably the most practical.

However I'd find Profession (cook) rather tempting.

Shadow Lodge

Also missed that in the editing, and yes, it sucks.

Worth noting that while it doesn't make much thematic sense to keep Swift Alchemy without the main alchemy ability, nothing in Swift Alchemy actually depends on the Alchemy ability.

Shadow Lodge


The only thing the Sleuth replaces is Alchemy, and the Empiricist doesn't affect that ability.

Note that Swift Alchemy is a different ability from Alchemy.

Shadow Lodge

Paladin is a good idea, but the Chosen One doesn't work with Magical Child because it duplicates the familiar (not mechanically allowed, in addition to being not great thematically). Ditto on Eldritch Guardian Fighter - though if your GM lets you apply the bonuses from both classes to a single familiar then you might have something going.

Honestly, though, I don't think the familiar is going to be a meaningful combatant no matter what you do.

And I don't think the magus is worth it in gestalt when paired with a partial caster that has no combat abilities to speak of. You just won't have the firepower.

I'd suggest something focused and potent enough to do the heavy lifting for the character - paladin, bloodrager, oracle, sorcerer, or - my favourite - Feyspeaker Druid.

The Fairy Child: Nine levels of divine charisma-based casting with lots of fun flashy spells, to add to your summoner casting. All good saves, 6 skill points per level. Shapeshifting (2 levels later than usual, the only real downside to the druid archetype for this gestalt). And animals are your friends - you can have a second, larger animal buddy if you want.

Shadow Lodge

What do you mean offense? Do you mean how to know whether something is able to bypass DR? Aside from some general rules that apply to monsters (eg angels bypass DR/good, werewolf bites can hurt werewolves) it will say "this bypasses DR/whatever."

There are also some abilities that do extra damage against certain creature types.

zainale wrote:
does not say anything about it having a range. it just happens like you can't make a horse approach a revving motorcycle or someone trying to serve a skittish to a slavering angry dog. its not going to get close.

Right, it's not going to get "close." How close is up for debate - or more accurately up to GM interpretation.

And as I said, even if the GM decides that it will keep animals indefinitely far away while the eidolon is present, if they want to be a jerk they can still do things like having wolpertingers swarm you or rats eat all your rations while you're asleep (and your eidolon is gone).

Shadow Lodge

DR/good means that the creature takes reduced damage from weapon attacks that are not good aligned. This type of DR is common in evil outsiders and can be found in some other nasties. After 10th level, Magic Attacks can give your eidolon good-aligned attacks, giving the eidolon an improved ability to hurt these creatures.

I'm assuming based on the fact that you're spending 9 evolution points that you're at level 6 at most, so I'd use Magic Fang for a few more levels.

I think it's unlikely that a GM would allow the entire party to bypass significant encounters with a single 1-point evolution. On the other hand, if the animal attacks are frustrating enough to reduce your enjoyment of the game then the GM should fix that whether or not the you take Unnatural Aura. Talk to them about the issue. Best case scenario, the GM stops the attacks and you don't have to take the evolution. If you don't check first, your GM may interpret the ability in a restrictive way like "won't attack the eidolon or anyone sharing the eidolon's square" which will be less useful to you, have animals stalk you and then attack in your sleep when the eidolon is gone, or else just switch to harassing you with small magical beasts which won't be affected by the aura.

Shadow Lodge

Just a Guess wrote:
Side question: How would a ranger/druid gestalt with the shapeshifting hunter work math wise? Would they increase the things modified by the feat by level x2?

RAW yes, but as Gestalt is basically a house rule in the first place a GM may restrict such feats on the grounds that they weren't intended to be used with gestalt.

Shadow Lodge

The character makes selections for each power he could get from each of the spirits. They would select which sorcerer/wizard spells the archmage spirit will grant, which spells and type of channeling the hierophant will grant, which skills the trickster will grant, and which exotic weapon proficiency the champion will grant.

And yes, they can then switch between these spirits during the day.

The benefit of spirit dancer is increased flexibility as to which spirits you channel for any particular encounter or challenge.

The downsides are you can only access spirits for a limited duration, and can't channel weaker spirits to reduce influence.

Shadow Lodge

Unnatural aura. If animals don't approach the eidolon, they will approach and attack other party members that aren't as well defended.

Shadow Lodge

Magic Fang is better than Magic Attacks since it gives the attack & damage bonus, not just the ability to bypass DR.

Craft Wands isn't usually a great idea for summoners because you don't have a good range of spells to use with it. Craft Wondrous Item is better if you want to craft.

Note that the reach evolution specifies one attack instead of one attack form - it will only give one of your claws reach. (Source)

Shadow Lodge

Avaricious wrote:
"Powerful" as in highest DCs achieved to save against or stacking bonuses I agree with the SAD tactic. An Arcanist/Wizard would be so focused on their specialties so as to be overwhelming.

Not really.

The arcanist//wizard doesn't actually have any stronger spells than a plain wizard. Arcane reservoir only works on arcanist spells. There are a handful of exploits that will add functionality to wizard casting (like Shift Caster or Metamagic Knowledge for more bonus metamagic feats) but mostly arcanist//wizard is about having access to a wider range of wizard spells and supernatural abilities, not increased potency.

The best way to get a focused gestalt is not to combine two similar classes, but to combine classes that have abilities that complement the same focus.

Like the Mindchemist//Wizard, with an Int-boosting cognatogen which adds +2 to +4 to the DCs of all wizard spells.

Or the Mesmerist//Heavens Oracle, which gets to stack Mental Potency and Awesome Display to hike the number of HD it can effect with illusion spells, reduce the target's effective HD for purposes of being affected by illusion (pattern) spells, and apply a penalty to will saves, for a ridiculously potent Colour Spray.

It's even easier to get overwhelmingly focused martial//martial options. Like brawler//rogue flurry of sneak attack. Or barbarian//hunter amplified ferocious mounted ragelancepounce.

Note that some of these combos are also fairly versatile. The mindchemist//wizard has all good saves, a d8 HD, and buckets of skill points. The barbarian//hunter gets two good saves, lots of skills, and partial spellcasting.

Avaricious wrote:
A lot of Gestalts opt for closing all gaps/versatility, but there's something to be said for focused builds such as a Magus(Myrmidarch) spliced into Gunslinger(Pistolero).

Yes there is.

Full BAB plus lots of combat bonuses.
All good saves.
Partial spellcasting.
Decent skills.

Though Gunslinger//Eldritch Archer is probably better as a focused ranged build, since it can use spell combat with a ranged weapon (action economy!) and gets ranged spellstrike earlier.

Shadow Lodge

Avaricious wrote:
Curious _Ozy_, and no vitriol or sarcasm intended, where does the years of down-time estimate come from?

Because mundane crafting is measured in silver pieces per week, not GP/day.

It sounds like you applied the magical item crafting rates to mundane crafting by mistake.

Shadow Lodge

I love the idea of mushrooms, dragonflies, and a companion metamorphosis!

Might have to make up a fantasy vermin to have a companion that's more functional than a caterpillar pre-metamorphosis, though it looks like dragonflies go from aquatic to airborne during development, so that might work and check two boxes in one? Or just invent a more threatening (probably toxic) version of a butterfly or moth.

On the plant side, maybe briar bush and poison ivy (like the crawling vine but contact poison instead of grab & constrict). Or a Thorny or Weedwhip with appropriate progression.

For reference, it looks like the current options are:


Giant ant
Giant beetle
Giant centipede
Giant leech
Giant mantis
Giant scorpion
Giant slug
Giant spider


Carnivorous Flower
Crawling Vine
Sapling Treant

Shadow Lodge

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I think the most recent unusual item my party made was a pair of Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver.

In one higher-wealth campaign we had a lot of minor crafted items floating around, including All-Weather Boots (permanent Endure Elements), a Bag of Tricks, a portable bathtub, and - probably the most bizarre - a rubber duck that quacked when it detected evil auras. Imagine finding that in a dragon's hoard.

Shadow Lodge

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:
Normally, prestige classes like Mystic Theurge aren't allowed for Gestalt. Definitely check before you go too far down that path.

This is very true.

However, if "Powerplaying is expressly allowed" means your GM has made the questionable balance choice to allow all prestige classes... then absolutely go Empyreal Sorcerer//Cleric and then switch to Mystic Theurge//Unchained Monk for ALL THE WIN*

*Here defined as two full casting progressions, almost full BAB, fantastic saves, a host of defensive and mobility related powers all based on your single casting stat, and a punch that could have anything from Stunning Fist to Chill Touch to Harm attached.

Shadow Lodge

Do you definitely want both arcane and divine casting, or was that just an initial idea?

What kind of stats are you working with? If you've got an extra-high point buy it's easier to handle classes whose stats don't line up well, but usually you want to have similar stat requirements for both classes

Do you know what the rest of the party will be playing?

My initial thoughts for good combos similar to wizard//cleric would be:

1) Empyreal Bloodline Sorcerer//Cleric. Spontaneous arcane and prepared divine casting, both based on Wis. Good Fort and Will saves, d8 HD and average BAB (fine for a caster). Skills are poor - consider Herald Caller cleric to get 4/level. Ecclesitheurge cleric is another good option since the restriction against armour is irrelevant to you and it adds some nice casting flexibility.

2) Sorcerer (Any)//Feyspeaker Druid. Spontaneous arcane and prepared divine casting, both based on Cha. Good Fort and Will saves, 6 skills/level, misc. goodies. Druid has some nice long-duration buffs, including wild shape (2 levels delayed) which improves action economy. Downside: only d6 HD and poor BAB. Not a disaster as long as you make sure to have an extra-good Con and watch other physical defenses. Wild Shape helps.

3) Feyspeaker Druid//Oracle. Spontaneous and prepared divine casting with a diverse list of spells (including more arcane-like blasting and control) and lots of other goodies including some long-duration or passive abilities. Good Fort and Will saves, d8 HD and average BAB, 6 skills/level. Can wear armour!

4) Wizard//Mindchemist Alchemist. ALL good saves, d8 HD and average BAB, 4 skills/level plus your massive Int and a big bonus to Knowledge skills. Alchemist extracts and bombs round out your wizard spells with extra control or blasting options, the ability to share personal-range buffs, and some curatives. Cognatagen boosts your Int, thus your DCs for everything and bomb damage. You can also pick up passive defensive discoveries. Wizard doesn't play very well with divine casters but if you're set on wizard and want healing this is very good.

Shadow Lodge

Any particular animals or plants you'd like to see?

Shadow Lodge

Not true.

Divine Spells wrote:
Unlike arcane spells, divine spells draw power from a divine source. Clerics gain spell power from deities or from divine forces. The divine force of nature powers druid and ranger spells, and the divine forces of law and good power paladin spells. Divine spells tend to focus on healing and protection and are less flashy, destructive, and disruptive than arcane spells.

Unfortunately it is a little unclear where the power of non-core divine spellcasters come from. Presumably warpriests also get spells from a patron deity, since they are cleric hybrids, and hunters get their power from the divine forces of nature, like druids and rangers.

It is however definitely clear that a druid does not derive their power from a deity, even if they do worship one.

Related comment from James Jacobs:

James Jacobs wrote:
Of all the classes in Golarion... only clerics MUST have a patron deity, since only clerics get their spells from a patron deity.

Shadow Lodge

Kingdom-building rules and social conflicts may be helpful, as well as a good chunk of the other stuff in Ultimate Campaign and Ultimate Intrigue.

Shadow Lodge

Oh, yes, trap disarming makes more sense.

If you don't need Combat Expertise then definitely don't bother with the Swash dip - for melee you'd still be able to take Weapon Finesse and either Dervish Dance or Weapon Focus + Slashing or Fencing Grace.

Archery is a good style, though if you take investigator you'll want Ranged Study, which will delay you from getting Rapid Shot for a level unless you're human.

+ Dex + Int races are elf, ratfolk, sylph, tiefling (vanilla or daemon-spawn), and wayang. Daemon-spawn gets a racial Disable Device bonus. Elf gets you longbow proficiency instead of shortbow.

Stats would be similar, except swapping Int and Cha and then with Clever Wordplay you could drop Cha below average for a slightly higher Str or Wis (or Con, if you take a race with a Con penalty). Note that for archery at least a small Str bonus is nice because it gives you a damage bonus with a composite bow.

There are a few investigator guides as well.

Shadow Lodge

That is a tall order on 15 point buy.

Maybe dip a level in Swashbuckler to get both free Weapon Finesse and the ability to pick up Combat Expertise (for Disarm) without Int 13? You won't want to dump Int but it's nice to save the 3 points between Int 10 and 13. Mysterious Avenger isn't a bad idea since it would let you use a Whip with finesse, which is a pretty handy weapon for a combat maneuver bard. Your three feats will get you Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, and Weapon Focus - then aim for Slashing Grace and the Whip Mastery line if desired.

Stats could be Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14 before racial mods.

Human will give you +2 Dex, another feat (Slashing Grace to start is a very good plan), and skill points. If you want something more unusual, halflings, catfolk, ifrit, and kitsune, rakshasa-spawn tieflings, and azata-blooded aasimar all give you +2 Dex and +2 Cha with either -2 Str or -2 Wis. Of these I'd go aasimar for no stat penalty and +2 Diplomacy. Then the 4th level stat increase could go to Dex.

End up with Str 8 or 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 8 or 10, Cha 14 or 16.

Without the swash dip you'd shave a little off Str, Wis, and/or Cha for the 13 Int, and you'd be down a feat. I'd definitely go aasimar or human in this case.

I personally wouldn't want to try strength based with this point buy since you need a good Dex for AC and Disable Device. That said, Treantmonk thinks it would work fine given really heavy Wis dumping (see the "Melee Bard"). For a strength build your race choices are probably human (or half-human) or angel-blooded aasimar; there aren't many races that give you a strength bonus without penalizing Int or Cha.

Here's another guide to check out.

I should point out I know very little about Rise of the Runelords, so I can't say whether this combat style is a good one for that AP. Combat Maneuvers in general and particularly Disarm tend to work much better with smaller and humanoid enemies.

Shadow Lodge

Just Power Attack. It's the base feat, your eidolon will qualify from level 1.

And as lemeres mentioned, maybe Cornugon Smash and then Hurtful if you feel like giving your Eidolon ranks in Intimidate.

Shadow Lodge

Right, you mentioned drow. There is the non-halfling version of the Helpful trait, but that only increases your aid another bonus to +3, not +4.

There are a pair of teamwork feats that could help (Exceptional Aid and Harrying Partners, but because each of them has a pre-requisite that's two feats for both the bodyguard and the boss - probably not worth it (and you don't have the BAB for Harrying Partners). If the boss has some variant of the Tactician ability it's worth considering.

You can add armour special abilities to Bracers of Armour as long as they have a bonus equivalent rather than a flat cost, and Benevolent qualifies. However I understand if it's too much wealth.

Also, what buffs did you have in mind from the sorc part of the gestalt? It occurs to me that Long Arm and Line in the Sand might both be useful, though their shorter duration (especially for Line in the Sand) might make them difficult to pull off.

Shadow Lodge

lemeres wrote:
Werewolves are bipeds, and since I presume where this is going- can't get pounce. Quadrupeds can get pounce, but their forelegs can't work as hands. You would need the arms evolution, and then you would basically end up with a Wolf centaur thing.

A flexible GM might allow you to have a quadrupedal eidolon with the arms evolution and say that instead of gaining a new set of arms the eidolon gains the option to also use its front legs as arms.

The only benefit to doing so is flavour. There is no mechanical benefit compared to a wolf centaur thing, and in fact it is mechanically disadvantageous since for example you wouldn't have another set of limbs to put claws on.

Shadow Lodge

CoI wrote:
That was kind of my plan. Bottleneck them in the doorway, and anyone who gets through is within reach. Use re-position/trip if they're too close to his charge (although he'll likely be tripping them anyways) and use his shurikens to lock them in place. I thought the close quarters would probably work in the Drow's favor rather than the other way around. especially if I drop a flaming sphere in the doorway and use the anchoring shurikens to lock the first or second person in place who attempts to jump over it. So far I've given him weapon finesse, combat reflexes, bodyguard, antangonize (might trade for in harms way) and agile maneuvers. What do you think?

Skip In Harm's Way and Antagonize, they're mostly redundant with Shield Other. Also you've got enough interrupt actions to keep track of.

Skip Agile Maneuvers. The kama has the trip property, so you can use weapon modifiers - including Weapon Finesse - to make both trip and reposition maneuvers. (Source)

Try Ki Throw. It's a level 6 bonus feat for the Flowing Monk and adds some reposition to your trips.

Between Bodyguard, tripping, and reach, I feel like he's going to run out of AoO. That's good action economy, but it also means that getting more AoO should be a priority. How high is his Dex?

Also, at just +2 to AC Bodyguard is not that great. Is the bodyguard a Helpful Halfling? Do you have room in the budget for Benevolent Bracers of Armour?

Shadow Lodge

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Das Bier wrote:
My way is simpler. Just take the amount he spends on making stuff + the value of stuff he didn't make, and that should be exactly at his cap.

Simpler in that you give out the exact same amount of wealth and then don't worry about how the crafting feat will affect WBL.

However if you want to check how much WBL a character has while the game is in progress, you'll have to figure out which items the character made vs. the items they found. That's a pain.

It also means that the value of a crafting feat could be close to nothing or almost doubling your WBL, depending on how much time you get to craft. That's a lot of variability, and it's why the devs suggested that as a guideline crafting should increase the overall value of your gear by 25%-50% depending on how many crafting feats you have.

Das Bier wrote:
WBL abuse is a hallmark of 3e. People played it for all it was worth with the item creation feats.

Really? I don't think I ever saw someone craft in 3E. Cost you XP.

Shadow Lodge

Monks use their level instead of their BAB to CMB, and Empyreal sorcerer works quite nicely with that.

Room definitely sounds crowded, though the double chained kama can be used to attack adjacent squares so he's less likely to get boxed in and the desk should provide cover to the boss (and thus prevent AoO if he shoots when adjacent to a PC).

Shadow Lodge

What it says is that the effects of each age category are cumulative.

As in, becoming middle aged gives you +1 to mental stats and -1 to physical stats, and then becoming old gives you another +1 to mental stats and -2 to physical stats for a total of +2 and -3.

That's not the same thing as the bonus to mental stats for becoming venerable stacking with the bonus to mental stats for becoming venerable again.

Which, it occurs to me, probably falls under the general rule of "Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source." The bonus from advancing to each age category is its own bonus source and doesn't stack with itself should you pass through that age category again somehow.

Shadow Lodge

RAW unclear.

I would say the venerable bonuses have already applied to the mind, therefore it is a venerable mind and isn't subject to further aging. However getting the venerable bonuses without the penalties is already quite nice.

Shadow Lodge

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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Weirdo wrote:
He used Mormonism as an example of a "Conservative Church," (a term that would also describe, say, worshipers of Erastil) not a representative example of Christianity. And I think he is also suggesting reading their holy text, The Book of Mormon, not watching the musical of the same name.

Nope, I did suggest the musical -- it's more accessible than most other ways to learn about missionary culture, and it's also very accurate (Parker and Stone both grew up in Mormon country, although they're not Mormons themselves, and they did their homework as part of writing it.)

Fair. I prefer primary sources as a rule but it's quite plausible that in this particular case the musical comedy is accurate enough.

Shadow Lodge

Divine Exemplar

It appears to work the first way - you get all the powers associated with a new domain every four levels.

It is a fairly strong ability, but given how severely your spellcasting is reduced (fewer spells per level AND you can only cast domain spells) I don't think that it's necessarily unbalanced.

Shadow Lodge

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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
On the 'right," the same factors that lead to imperialism and oppression are generally accepted if not outright supported. (Conservative churches still send missionaries to baptize and civilize the "healthens." Check out The Book of Mormon sometime.)
Because if you want to think what most Christian missionaries think, you should see a musical comedy about a group which many Christians consider a cult?

He used Mormonism as an example of a "Conservative Church," (a term that would also describe, say, worshipers of Erastil) not a representative example of Christianity. And I think he is also suggesting reading their holy text, The Book of Mormon, not watching the musical of the same name.

Shadow Lodge

mardaddy wrote:
Efficient Quiver is not just for arrows, if you have or are going to get multiple wands and/or staffs, you can use it.

True, though by the time you have enough wands, rods, and staves to want the quiver I don't think it qualifies as an "early" magic item pick.

Shadow Lodge

Huh, I missed the "can."

It does say your base (land) speed always changes - though with plants that's more likely to be a hindrance than a benefit.

Polymorph wrote:
In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume.

Shadow Lodge

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Mavrickindigo wrote:

From what I could tell, there are indeed sexualized males in Pathfinder products. Off the top of my head, there is the Veela from one of the Bestiaries, which shows a male version of the race instead of the female version. They also had the "Blacksmith's Son" in the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game to be an alternative to the "Shopkeeper's Daughter".

Also, that shortpacked comic made me think of this image in rebuttal to it

Don't know how much this adds/detracts from the discussion, but I've always wanted to see someone point out the flaws in the argument.

You might want to read the whole article Jessica posted.

The romance covers posted actually are quite close to the examples of sexualized male characters listed in the article.

First, most of them are moderately muscular and well toned rather than "impossibly muscled hulks."

Second, you've got posing - the difference between this power-expressing image and this sexualized image or even better this one. The men on romance novel covers are generally not posed powerfully. Several of them are leaning back (displaying their chests) and/or submissively averting their gaze.

Finally, some of the mens' heads on the covers are cropped off. That's dismemberment, a form of objectification.

Shadow Lodge

Rysky wrote:
When you worship a deity as a Paladin you do fall lockstep with their mindset to a certain extent, because when you do worship a deity as a Paladin you do get their powers from them.

Common misconception. Clerics normally get their powers from their deities, paladins do not.

Clerics, druids, experienced paladins and rangers, inquisitors, oracles, the adept NPC class, the hunter hybrid class, the shaman hybrid class, and the warpriest hybrid class cast divine spells. Unlike arcane spells, divine spells draw power from a divine source. Clerics gain spell power from deities or from divine forces. The divine force of nature powers druid and ranger spells, and the divine forces of law and good power paladin spells. Divine spells tend to focus on healing and protection and are less flashy, destructive, and disruptive than arcane spells.

(Unofficial confirmation from James Jacobs here and here.)

The deity-specific paladin codes make sense when you consider the fact that paladins, being Lawful Good, like to join organizations with similar goals, such as religions centered around lawful and/or good deities. A paladin associated with these organizations will naturally take on their specific interests, and express these commitments as a formal code. Breaking a deity-specific code could still cause a fall even if the deity does not empower the paladin, because it would violate the general requirements that a paladin "respect legitimate authority" (ie the deity you've agreed to serve) and "act with honour" (eg no oath-breaking). Really it's the same thing as swearing fealty to a ruler, except you can have greater confidence that your deity will stick to consistent moral principles.

It's ultimately up to your GM whether he/she wants to follow the one-step rule with paladins. I personally would be OK with a paladin following certain TN deities such as Pharasma, in connection with a NG branch of the church. I would be less comfortable with a Paladin taking options that bound them particularly strongly to the TN deity and their goals, such as Deific Obedience or the Evangelist prestige class.

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