V'rel Vusoryn's page

V'rel Vusoryn wrote:

PvE isn't the hostile act as I see it.

You might want to run that by Nihimon and Decious, they disagree. Decious might actually declare your statement a Gross Conceptual Error.

AGC placed a small holding to make the harvesting of an escalation hex more efficient. This act was seen as hostile (PVP) and was retaliated with the taking of Towers from Golgotha / KBerz / Pax (whatever).

Since there is no Sovereignty System in place, is the server population to accept what TSV declares as being "Their Sovereignty"?

I don't need to run anything by them. It may shock you but there are more folks in TSV that have a say than the two of your ire. I was there the night AGC was chased out and gave the weapons free for Phaeros members as well as being there the next night to cap that tower.

Trust me, I know more about this than you do as I'm actually there taking part in it. I know that snippet fits your agenda, but the full context of the quote still stands and reflects my stance.

If that was the case then I wouldn't be here and someone better at this foruming would be feeding Thod things to say.

Thod is MY friend and I see possible holes in things being said in this thread, so I'm speaking up for him..

And Avari, again your just reiterating my point. A claim was made against a member of Phaeros, and then a recommendation of action (an action of itself) was brought to the EBA level. No actions were desided. So by KP and BH saying they will not engage hostile actions against EL if they get their stuff from Hammferfall, does not mean Phaeros won't.

So going back to Thods question, can he expect hostilities if he attempts to retrieve his stuff? Or is Phaeros going to continue to skirt the question?

Considering your personal history with Phaeros I'm not sure why you think Phaeros is obligated to answer your questions. If Thod has such concerns he knows who our leaders and diplomats are. He can contact them more directly if he still has concerns about the answer he was given.

That said, if anyone takes an honest look at Phaeros and asks the question "Does Phaeros have a sustained history of going out and attacking those who are not affiliated with groups that have declared it enemy or groups/individuals who haven't first taken hostile actions toward its members?"

The answer is a resounding no. You do. Do you plan to attack Thod after he gets his stuff and is transporting it back to EL? *grin*

V'rel Vusoryn wrote:

That said Nihimon rarely has had to attack first. It seems to be a badge of some sort to kill him by most of our enemy. He's always getting attacked.

Simple name recognition explains a lot of it while IFF remains SNAFU.

I'd be interested to see if forum familiar names get less attention once we have proper IFF like company or settlement names.

There will be dancing and alcohol the day reliable IFF is introduced. That said, I think amongst those that fight most often there will still be a bit of the name recognition/target preference factor.

Thod wrote:

@Bluddwolf

But, but, but - I was told here on the boards you are evil

...

This is not the first incident where forum personae and in-game actions are not matching expectations in a positive way.

I think it is safe to say that few if any of us would have expected EBA lands to be NBSI, without just cause. Yet they are, and I am witness to it first hand.

...

Well, that's not anyone in EBA's fault that you assumed a forum personae would act a given way and it is not living up to your expectations. It's not our purpose (or desire for many) to live up to your expectations. As far as a "positive way" is concerned let's clearly define that it is n't positive for you. It is for many, many others.

EBA is is not NBSI. We've established public policies that anyone can be directed to with respect to behavior in lands we have now declared and are holding. Territory control is part of the design of this game, remember?

As Throgrim said we are NRDS...to people who have not made declaration or have taken past action to prey upon our members. You and your settlement have made it very clear time and again over the years that you consider Phaeros (and the EBA) fair game to attack and steal from.

That noted, I find it unfathomable that you would not understand why we wouldn't consider anyone from your sphere of influence (settlement) KOS.

The expectation that I have of those affiliated with Aragon is they see me as a member of Phaeros and the EBA as a target to be attacked. Why, then, am I not allowed to defend myself (or my friends) OR if I am why am I only allowed to defend myself in a manner approved by you?

Why should I only be allowed to worry about your combat character but not be equally guarded for your tavern roaming one? Because of your say so?

Just about every reason you use to justify stopping and robbing EBA non-combatants I believe is equally valid to intercept your non-combatant.

Many of us in the EBA have had our characters jumped and killed by NC folks where they were outnumbered, yet you don't see us coming to forums complaining about it or doing so in game. No, we do as was suggested: We mobilize and do something about it in game.

That's what the ones who expected us to be defenseless told us to do here on these forums pre-Alpha and EE. Now that we are doing it, now defending ourselves is a huge problem that we are made out to be horrible people for doing so.

We're being disparaged for claiming territory and defending ourselves. Things you are supposed to do in this game. I mean, wow. Just, wow.

As for the issue with Bellows...Having known Decius for 2+ years, debated with him over various topics on voice coms...and having been in voice comms with him when this happened...Decius has nothing to worry about with respect to being honorable.

Claiming territory in a game based on claiming territory is not being a "bad guy". And this "their share" talk? Really? Please link the location where it establishes how much a group can hold as "their share".

If there is any enmity to be had I highly doubt it is from your PvP attention. I think it's more from how some of you present yourselves on forums such as this and the manner in which you communicate with/at others. The incessant need to paint anything and everything anyone from the EBA says or does has done way more to that end than any in-game PvP.

Frankly, there are days that I feel the community doesn't *deserve* our content.

This is an example of what I meant above. It is also very presumptive in thinking "your content" is the reason keeping people in game. It's not though I'm sure your opinion differs.

I like PvP (as much as I like crafting and PvE). I like killing Golgothans. If you guys left, I'd like killing the next guys that step in to fill that role. 18 plus years of playing MMOs has shone me there will always be a "next guy" that wants to be evil and murder some carebear noobs, lol!

Tyncale, there's no question in anyone's mind that predators need prey. My question is, how many of those who are currently playing primarily as prey are prepared to step into the role of predator?

If, by predator, you mean going into the sovereign areas of other groups and killing random gatherers/crafters, from my experience...none.

If, by predator, you mean those who prefer the non-PvP play style yet in the past few weeks have gained interest in it to defend their groups interests...more than a few.

The Grey Guard is currently seeking adventurers of all types as well as Commoners and Experts to join our ranks. Managing a POI takes all types and an organization that prides itself on teamwork and respect.

Join today. Make a difference. Help extinguish Frozen Fingers bonfires! (We really do need the help with the bonfires!)

Name: Grey Guard

POI: Watchtower

Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Accepted Alignments: LN, LG, NG*

Classes Accepted: Any that can meet alignment

Deities Worshipped: Aroden, Iomedae, Torag, Angradd, Kols (Collectively called The Five)

Grey Council: General of the Grey; High Commander North [NA]; High Commander West [EU]; High Commander East [AP]

NPC Faction Affiliation: Hellknights(LN)

Purpose: As Citizens of Phaeros our charge is maintaining a fighting force, keeping within the values of The Five, capable of protecting the interests and assets of Phaeros, The Seventh Veil and its allies.

Introduction: The single most important belief to a member of the Grey Guard is maintaining the laws and keeping order in the lands in which he or she is charged to protect. Each member is expected to follow The Vow, the Law of the Grey as well as their respective Guardian Code both in letter and in spirit. This will aid them in the defense of our interests and as ambassadors for The Seventh Veil and the Roseblood Accord.

Joining the Grey Guard:
If you have interest in joining please register at The Seventh Veil website linked here. Once registered please fill out an application for TSV and, subject to TSV approval, read over the Sub-Community and Grey Guard forums (The latter to learn more about the Grey Guard, the former to request entry).

Please also feel free to PM me here if you have any questions about the Grey Guard.

*As far as alignment considerations if you feel that Neutral Good means you never follow orders in your pursuit of Good, then maybe not. If you feel, in the context of joining the Grey Guard, that it means that with whatever orders are given you find a way to further Good in the completion of those orders, then most certainly.

Man, woman, child, gnome, Reaver: we have a home for you!

*spits out his ale in a huge mist, his eyes grow to the size of bucklers*

Wait, what?

(Ok... maybe not Reavers... Sorry!)

*lets out a huge sigh*

Whew...

Name: Grey Guard

Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Accepted Alignments: LN, LG

Classes Accepted: Any that can meet a LN/LG alignment

Deities Worshipped: Aroden, Iomedae, Torag, Angradd, Kols

Grey Council: General of the Grey; High Commander North [NA]; High Commander West [EU]; High Commander East [AP]

NPC Faction Affiliation: Hellknights

Purpose: As Citizens of Phaeros our charge is maintaining a fighting force, keeping within the values of The Five, capable of protecting the interests and assets of The Seventh Veil and its allies.

Introduction: The single most important belief to a member of the Grey Guard is maintaining the laws and keeping order in the lands in which he or she is charged to protect. Each member is expected to follow The Vow, the Law of the Grey as well as their respective Guardian Code both in letter and in spirit. This will aid them in the defense of and as ambassadors for The Seventh Veil and the Roseblood Accord.

Joining the Grey Guard:
If you have interest in joining please register at The Seventh Veil Forums and then fill out an application in the Member Application section. Note at the top of your application that your intent is to join the Grey Guard. If you have questions about the Grey Guard please PM me here or on The Seventh Veil forums.

Job well done to all involved in this accord!

I've passed a few other Wisdom checks recently, so I figured I was due :)

I failed mine as well, but made up for it I believe as found a trail that led me to end my viewing with Limahl and the Neverending Story theme.

The element of WoW I enjoyed was the humor. Nothing else comes to mind.

One more element than I. I found the humor to be too "try-hard" and not funny at all. Only played WOW for about 6 weeks in early 2006 after I left Star Wars Galaxies in November 2005(NGE). After I left WoW I never once had even the smallest desire to go back.

That was my understanding also. I was not sure where Keovar was thinking towards, if perhaps another eg of Arcane casters would be mentioned additional to dps-glass-cannnon-spellbook => dps spells.

Nihimon seems to indicate some egs "Divination and Abjuration." Any others that Arcane casters might use?

Sure. Conjuration, Illusion, Enchantment, Transmutation, Necromancy, Universalist and the Elemental schools.

The spells from these schools should get equal attention as the ones from Evocation that are primarily direct damage causing. The Arcane option for not being a "glass cannon" should be and Arcane Swiss Army Knife.

Keovar wrote:

Ryan Dancey wrote:

You are likely to be a glass cannon

Likely because you think that's what arcane casters want, or likely because that's what you're designing them to be? If the former, I will say that it does not apply to me, and as for the latter... well, I guess it's good to know that I needn't bother trying to play one.

Yeah, I'm hoping it's "likely" in the sense of "most Wizards will choose to be glass cannons" rather than in the sense of "if you want to be a powerful Wizard, you're going to have to be a glass cannon".

I remain hopeful that a Defensive Wizard will be viable. I'd actually like to give up the high-damage Evocation spells in favor of specializing in Divination and Abjuration.

And that's the thing, right. I'd like to know more about the person(s) designing wizards/Sorcerers. I want to know more about their PF TT experience.

The reason I want to know is that the majority of the people ages 25 and below that I've run into in FLGS these days have only played 4th edition DnD OR if they have played PF they have played it in a Hack-N-Slash manner only.

My hope is that the persons designing the the arcane casting classes fully understand the widespread utility of the majority of the Arcane Spells and how they could translate into an MMO with a little thought. What I hope isn't the case is that the mentality of said designers isn't the one of "RPG gaming is about the Direct Damage Combatz, yo!"

Indeed I hope that a mandatory campaign of King Maker is being ran and that all staff are required to take on one of the roles of governing. I know the Core Rulebook is the major influence however if you the team is ever to open up a second book the Ultimate Campaign book should be Number 2, followed by all the Beastiary books.

Pax Areks wrote:

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Every time people start screaming when we touch mechanics with a long history of abuse in MMOs, I think we're on the right track.

I have no issue with abuses, whatever they may be, being addressed so long as the basic premise behind the mechanic remains.

But Areks, what you're arguing for is NOT the premise behind the mechanic. You're arguing for the recent MMO convention of invisible rogues: a high(er) level can just stand in front of someone and be invisible until they initiate their chain-stuns. You're not de facto wrong to desire invisible rogues, but you're absolutely wrong about the premise behind stealth.

Invisible Rogues should only happen if the Rogue has access to the Invisibility spell. Even if they are invisible, there should still be a chance they make audible noise and for sure other visual clues should exist (i.e., if they pass through water they still make waves, if on soft ground they leave footprints, etc. )

To give Rogues Stealth and apply the states of Invisible, Silence, Incorporeal and Ethereal all into it does not, to me, seem desirable or even close to being true/near the actual PF game principles.

Being in Stealth does not equal being incorporeal. You most certainly should be affected "normally" (saves and all) if under stealth and you are in the middle of an AOE effect.

Just because someone may not see you doesn't mean you aren't physically there.

Invisibility stealth is not progress. Indeed, Invisibility is its own separate condition which enhances Stealth and thus should not be the basis for Stealth.

Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Stealth checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Stealth checks if you're moving

Firmly believe that maintaining that principle is not detrimental to gameplay. Part of Stealth should also include the player's own ability to use the foliage/landscape to move in closer to their target. That said, having Stealth convey a state where a character could possibly walk in circles around a "target" and the target never see him would only seem appropriate if the character in stealth has both Invisibility and Silence applied to them.

Even then a character in stealth, depending on terrain, will still leave footprints and thus a means to detect them. I know that if I were walking on a sandy/soft dirt open space or through a meadow of thick soft grass and I glanced back and saw another set of footprints forming in a line toward me, or the grass matting to the ground in like manner OR parting as if flowing around something...I would use those clues to guide any area attack I had available to me.

Classic single "classed" Rogues don't go incorporeal via their own skill options via Pathfinder rules. Therefore using only their own "class" skill options they should never exist in a state to where they are completely undetectable without the aid of magic.

PFO, in my opinion, would benefit immensely more if the devs found new ways to present certain mechanics that force players a little bit out of their comfortable "I know this mechanic because I've mastered its use in 5 other MMOs" zone.

Keeping it as close to as it is in PF and veering away from how it has been done in 5 or however many past MMOs to me is preferable. Just because it was comfortable in those games to me is not enough reason to implement it here in lieu of doing it a more PF'y way.

If you start the MMORPG.com hyping be prepared for a heavy negative influx of "haters" that will troll 24/7. Especially of the PVPing variety who will come and point out how PFO PvP is "carebear" and how their PVP game is real PvP.

Just saying. Been a member of that site since 2004.

Well one could point out v'rels comment about this being little boy humor for starters. I didn't see any outrage from Jessica nor Crystal on that. In fact, I see one person liked it so after I post this ill check who that was. Oh, and not to mention the not so subtle pummeling that I should get over the comment.

Oh and he makes note that not everything is a boob joke. You are correct sir, but the context I was joking of was about "boob armor". Again, not my term.

1) It was "little boy" humor as it's the kind of thing said by little boys. I know, I once was one. Spade is a spade.

2) Within society as a whole it is pretty much accepted that comments, even under the guise of "just a joke" made about gender, race, religion, color, creed, and often politics are best not said as they lead to conflict, evidence what you stirred up here because in your mind if it didn't offend you it's obviously okay to just say it aloud.

Based on your responses here you have missed the point Jessica made (you thought it was your saying boob armor when it was instead you suggesting that all females not wearing it were griefing you) and missing my point here (It's not the boob joke part of what I said, it's the need by a large portion of male gamers to always say something witty or try to be funny)..based on those responses I'd have to believe that you just say stuff and truly don't have a clue that what you say may be construed as offensive.

Every "apology" you gave was a defensive one with "ifs" and "maybes". The high, mature road of just saying "I'm sorry if I offended anyone" and leaving it at that seems to elude you. That or you just don't give a crap...I don't know which is worse.

Jessica Price wrote:

But a statement that women should be suspended for choosing less scanty costumes, even uttered in jest, implies that I only have a place in the game if I am providing you with visual gratification. I don't play games to provide you with gratification. I play them to play games. That's my personal objection.

As a contribution to an exclusionary environment, it also potentially drives away new players of different backgrounds, genders, orientations, etc., which is counter to supporting the success of this project. That's my professional objection.

Sorry but I have a hard time believing you can make it through a single day in the real world if you are that sensitive. This seems like the actions of somebody who was circling this thread purposefully looking to pounce on anyone who came remotely close to something sexist/homophobic.

I vote for a thread lock, this wasn't going to end any other way.

Thread does not need to be locked. The issue was handled, and for the record I disagree with the assessment of Avari of the situation. Sure, what was said was most surely said in jest, but having been on game forums for 15+ years now when is the time that this "little boy" humor stops? Everything doesn't have to be funny. Everything doesn't have to be a boob joke.

Believe me, I've said my share of them. Was in the Army for a good while. That said, and strangely on topic, as I mentioned earlier in this thread is that it's not only straight white males playing these games now. People need to THINK before they open their traps. When your "joke" has a qualifier of a trait that belongs to another human being, best keep it to yourself and immediate friends that you know won't take offense.

They don't, however, and say what they want because the internet prevents one thing: the other person punching you in the face for saying it.

V'rel Vusoryn wrote:

... PFO would do well to take a few notes from SWG (pre NGE). There is a reason its crafting system is across the board on MMO gaming forums still heralded as the best crafting system in an MMO to date.

For my part, I thought the actual mechanics of Crafting in SWG were nothing special, and that it was far too easy to "master" any particular skill. I think the real attraction of SWG's Crafting system was in the myriad items that could be created, and the freedom you had to place them inside your structures.

Well, I will agree to disagree with you on the "master" part of things as from my view part of that was making the "best" items on your respective server and only the players could determine that by them buying from you.

I also factor in their dynamic resource spawning system which required effort (not saying it was hard or easy) to find the right stat resources to maximize whatever trait you were going to punch on a given item. This I know due to the PA I ran in which my best bud was in the top 3 weapon crafters on the server and I was in the same bracket making Stim-Ds and other medical supplies.

Sure, the actual motions of making something were simple, and I feel that's as they should be. I hated (and stated it multiple threads in beta) EQ2's initial crafting system. Crafting shouldn't be a minigame. Developers need to spend less time trying to make gimmiky crafting and focus on the scope and utility of what can be crafted.

And SWG was a solid base on that principle in my view.

I do like the idea of the incorporation of spell reagents. Of course, I know part of that is the old Ultima Online gamer in me. Still, it was a nice touch aesthetically that could also be used for game balance.

I feel I need to give a more specific example for the Time Based approach. Let's say you have a Level 3 Wizard that has the spells Magic Missile (MM), Acid Arrow(AA), Disguise Self(DS) and Fog Cloud(FC). He selects all of those spells to be, for lack of a better term, "active" during this 3 hour block. Our wizard finds himself in conflict and casts (MM). (MM) is now on a cooldown timer that reads 2 minutes 30 seconds. He can still cast any of the other three spells he has active, but has to wait to cast (MM) again.

The difference for a Sorcerer would be that their cooldown would start at 1 minute 30 seconds, per the reasons I mentioned in the initial post.

I would like to lend my voice also to the idea of having a large open world. I am quite tired of the assumption by previous developers that I need to have "content" packed so close and tightly such that I may not "lose interest" if I have to run X minutes without "doing something".

Indeed, some of the most fun moments I've had were in Asheron's Call running on the road from Samsur to Holtburg. If memory serves me correct that run would take 45 minutes to an hour if you didn't stop to kill monsters and you had a Run Skill around 100. So longer with lower skill and a little shorter time with higher skill.

Having huge open areas with the occasional random monster spawns does, in my view, lend to the feeling of another world being created. It strays away from "game building" (your tight and neatly packaged themeparks) to "world building" (your large, open, explorable sandboxes).

Additionally, if the plan is to allow players to develop kingdoms and empires, cities and towns, then we need area to do such things. Areas that hopefully we will have to fight back the wilderness and tame the area to then bring civilization to.

Don't worry about providing convenience for me. I've been "convenienced" enough with the recent slate of themepark MMOs and instead of playing those right now I'm here, in your sandbox announced game forums. That says alot, I think, and I know I'm not the only one.

Make sinks for my time. Delay my gratification. Make me wait. Make me run. Let me explore.