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I thought I'd share this exciting, high stakes tidbit from our game. In the skum tunnels, the last room before the dome, there is a dimensional shambler who supposedly tries to shove PCs into the body mulching machine. Instead, and in accordance with the bestiary description for the creature, I had it dimension door and grab the party's wizard. Then it spent a full round plane shifting. The PC wizard failed his will save, and then used a hero point to succeed. His terror at being transported to a scene with scores of Mi-Go attacking a planet was priceless, before he barely managed to pull back and resist the shift. Sure the shambler is now out of the battle, but it was awesome.
By the way, how, mechAnically, would it work to have someone shoved into the body mulching machine?
I don't recall the hounds being stuck in that bedroom, but the hounds don't have any allegiance to Voltiaro, et. al, so there's no reason they would show up to help. I would probably just have the hounds stay in the room upstairs; maybe they like the angles of that room for some reason. Heck, they probably previously heard Voltiaro and the others in the mansion, but didn't go downstairs to attack, so it seems like they like to stay in the bedroom upstairs.
On the other hand, no reason that ALL the evil clerics wouldn't pile on for a battle royale in the room where the giant is. The module seems to contemplate that Voltiaro will just hang out upstairs and then be stuck taking on the party all by himself. I think that doesn't make any sense for him to do that. The fights are a lot tougher for the PCs when they can't just pile on one opponent.
And be aware that there will be BIG decisions to made on this same issue once they get to the Skum tunnels. Major potential for a monster pile up there too.
I think that seems sensible. I think my only concern is the PCs will soon be 11th level, so that would be 6d6 channel smite on the part of the rogue, without using up any of the cleric PC's daily channels (in contrast to the normal channel smite feat). I'm a little concerned that will be too potent against the undead in Ashes of Dawn.
On the other hand, it is only 3 times a day, and the modules are getting increasingly challenging. In fact, we almost had a TPK last night in the fight with the oracle, Mi-Go, and Gug (who really is an effective damage dealer). The wizard teleported the party out just in time, but the same challenge still awaits them when they return to the tunnels.
Thanks so much, Zhangar! Those are really interesting suggestions. The only problem is the barbarian already kicks some serious ass, so something that adds a huge number of dice of damage may be a bit much, especially where it would give the party 3 extra channels a day (which wouldn't be the case if the cleric were wielding it). Of course, as written the weapon would be disruptive in the hands of a cleric of pharasma (which the PC cleric in my game is not), which seems super powerful.
Already the rhythm of the game is everyone else messes around at the margins and then the barbarian wades in and completely smashes all the monsters. I'd like to figure out something that is cool and thematically appropriate, but not TOO potent...
Maybe it would make more sense for the party's rogue to use the mace? I'd want to switch it to a light mace, but then maybe it makes more sense that the "symbol of offce for the Bishop of Caliphas" was a light mace? Kind of heavy to hold a heavy mace as a symbol of office. I guess I could use the same special ability you suggest, which would lead to crazy damage if the rogue is also getting sneak attack damage, but the rogue's damage is not, in general, as ridiculous as the barbarian's...
A separate question: Any suggestions for an ability replacement for channel smite for the Raven's Head, if it is going to be wielded by a hard-hitting barbarian? There is no way the PC cleric or wizard in the party is going to spend time in close combat melee, so it is a waste to give them a melee weapon. I could redesign it for the rogue, but then it would need to be a light mace, which seems like an odd choice for a Prince wading into combat with the Tyrant's undead hordes...
Thanks. We played last night, and it ended up being a non-issue, because the Mi-Go had such a hard time hitting the PCs. And, even if grabbed, the PCs made pretty much all their FORT saves. I may think about adopting your compromise for next session, however, because we are in the middle of the fight and five Mi-Go are circling around to attack from the rear. And they are being smart by targeting the squishy cleric and wizard...
Failing a Knowledge check doesn't necessarily mean you never knew the information; you just can't remember it at the time. We've all forgotten things we've learned, or sat there thinking 'darn it, I know this ...'. Maybe you saw something that reminded you of the answer.
Actually, Zhayne, that isn't true under the rules as written. It is quite clear that a knowledge check represents "what you know, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn't let you know something that you never learned in the first place."
Yeah, I don't think of it in such a mystical, parallel universes way. The ability is described as very round and action oriented; it seems unreasonable to read something like that, that the cleric can do a good number of times a day, as something that causes switches between parallel universes retroactively, instead of affecting the probability of an immediate future action. If the knowledge skill was described as determining what you remember in a moment rather than what you know in an absolute sense, then it might make bit of luck make more sense, as affecting your ability to recall at that moment.
The "bit of luck" clerical domain power provides: "Bit of Luck (Sp): You can touch a willing creature as a standard action, giving it a bit of luck. For the next round, any time the target rolls a d20, he may roll twice and take the more favorable result. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier."
Can it be used on a knowledge check? Presumably not if I just tell the players, "make a knowledge check." They couldn't then say, well, let the cleric touch me first and then I'll make the check. But what if they say, "we want to make a knowledge check on this. I'll have the cleric touch me and then make the check"
This seems wrong to me. Knowledge checks aren't like other actions. First, "In most cases, a Knowledge check doesn't take an action." And, second, there are no try again's allowed: "The check represents what you know, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn't let you know something that you never learned in the first place."
While a clerical bit of luck could help someone climb a wall or hit a monster, how could it help them remember something they never learned? Also, giving bit of luck for knowledge checks seems overpowered, since such checks often have a big influence on how the plot unfolds.
Thanks, Rakshaka. That's a great help. I see that you gave mythic abilities and a mythic tier to your PCs. I see your mythic adjustment to the monster, but what did you give your PCs? You're not worried it is going to distort things going forward? Or are you going to give all encounters a mythic boost now? That would be too much work for me. Or could you just give a mythic boost for this one encounter?
What did you end up doing? How many charges did the items have? I'd like to give the Mi-go more options, and I think it would be cool, but I don't want to end up giving my players too much extra loot...
Another question: The module says the Mi-go chambers are covered with sea locks, like at the entrances to the caverns. Why? Even if the caverns flooded, the Mi-go would be fine because they don't need to breathe. I can easily omit this detail, but if there's a purpose I'd like to know it...
Why can a wizard use a club but not a light mace? More generally, ideas to give wizards options other than spell use?
Thanks, Ilja. I think it is a good idea for him to use a wand for things like mage armor and grease, and leave the daily slots open for spells that can take advantage of his CL, like magic missile and shocking grasp. I agree he also should be thinking about utility items, that may not be too expensive.
Give the crossbow the 'Precise' enchantment from 3rd, which gives it inherent Precise Shot.
Zhayne, is "precise" a weapon enhancement in RAW? I don't see it, but it would make a lot of sense in terms of making his crossbow more useful. He could probably investigate custom bolts too, which might be fun and not too costly.
Why can a wizard use a club but not a light mace? More generally, ideas to give wizards options other than spell use?
VRMH, you're right that he is conducting himself as a real wizard. Your suggestions are great for lower levels, but not really at the level we're playing at. Although the net could still be cute in some situations.
Zhayne, he is higher level, but he claims wands are too expensive to make sense. At, for example, 5,250 gp for a 7th level wand of magic missile, I understand his point. But I'd love to hear more suggestions for particular wands or scrolls that have a reasonable effect without being too expensive.
Why can a wizard use a club but not a light mace? More generally, ideas to give wizards options other than spell use?
Yeah, on further reflection, I think you're right about not giving him the mace because I doubt he'll use it. But I'd still like to find a solution for the dilemma. The cantrips were fine at low levels, but at higher levels the amount of damage is useless. And he has a crossbow, but the -4 for firing into melee combat is pretty prohibitive.
Hey all. I'm GMing an AP that has a magical mace that I'm considering converting for use by the party's wizard, who doesn't have much to do when he needs to conserve spell resources. Any idea why wizards are proficient in clubs but not light maces? It doesn't seem like the light mace would be much harder to use, although it is one pound heavier. I suppose I could always home rule proficiency.
Anyhow, more generally, any ideas on what a wizard PC should do to get more versatility in attack options without having to devote too much gp (on wands) or feats (on becoming effective at ranged weapons into melee)? The wizard in the group I'm GMing for is burning through his spell resources, largely because he can't think of anything better to do than cast a spell every round.
Thanks, all. I like your various tips for adding a sense of urgency, and I think I will plan on giving some sort of boon in the last battle. I definitely need to do more thinking about the Oogglith fight, which is coming right up.
Certainly no problem in selling the effigy from a story point of view. Of course, selling such a powerful magical item to a very not good entity... well, that's something that could go quite wrong for another stretch of coast line later, heh. Maybe a tie-in with your next group's adventure, a rumor perhaps.
Yeah, this gets to some of the hard decisions to be made. The safest thing to do would be to destroy the effigy, which has no good use, but they would lose a lot of GP that way. To sell it elsewhere or return it to Lepidstadt wouldn't stop some lunatic worshippers of the dark tapestry from getting their hands on it and one day leading to the destruction of much of Golarion. But I think it is fair to surmise that the Gutaki wouldn't be dumb enough to contact an Outer God, especially after what was witnessed with the skum. So, short of destroying it, the safest place for the effigy may be in the hands of the Gutaki, even though it may marginally strengthen Dagon's hold over the deepest waters -- but who really cares about that...?
That's an interesting take, dark warrior. It would permit frequent item switching, which is the problem Grishnackh brings up. Isn't the 24 hour rule designed to prevent that? Otherwise, isn't it meaningless? Not so hard to have the find some 24 hours to wear an item after acquisition, and then have it work forever without having to meet the 24 hours requirement again...
I agree Joex. Unless the PCs were trying to get away with something, I would probably house rule that, after the first 24 hours, the items could be removed for periods of up to 8-12 hours without loss of bonuses when the items are replaced (i.e. no need for a new 24 hour start up period).
In any event, Raymond solved my immediate dilemma. Can't believe I missed that!
I'm playing a witch with a headband of vast intelligence with the linguistics skill. The item description states, "After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice." Someone else in the party has a circlet of persuasion. Can the witch briefly take off the headband and borrow the circlet for a minute or two (to perform a discrete charisma-related task) without losing the linguistics bonuses when he puts in back on?
Thanks, Zhangar. I like the idea about using the skum cleric, and also the idea of the Raven's Head somehow communicating the hazard to the party, although making it actually able to talk probably wouldn't fit my (less-mythic) game. I had in mind your earlier thread when I thought about a (non-mythic) boon from Desna in that last battle, so thanks for the inspiration.
Did your party go through the entire period from descent to climatic battle without resting?
I have another question regarding the assault on the skum tunnels. Did any of your PCs rest midway through? The wizard PC in my players' group is pretty lousy at resource management, and there is one big fight after another, which will drain the party of spellcasting (not to mention the barbarian's rounds of rage) before reaching the final encounter. I don't want the party to leave and then come back, and would be interested to hear your ideas of how to discourage that. On the other hand, I'm a little concerned about them reaching the final battle with nothing left.
I guess one possibility might be that if they start to think about turning back they could hear human cries in common, perhaps even with a reference to the WW -- the dark rider -- coming from the last room. That should communicate the time pressure. Also, of course, if they leave they won't stop the manifestation of shub-niggurath, who will devastate Illmarsh.
I suppose if they reach the final battle with little to no resources I could give them a boon from Desna of some spell re-casting and rounds of rage.
How did you all handle this?
I had it use all of its buffs except for its round/level ones once combat broke out in the Skum chambers preceding the area. Its not the far in terms of distance from its location, so in terms of alertness, it is still buffed but also curious about the interlopers.
Thanks, Rakshaka. You're absolutely right. All the buffs last at least 9 minutes and it makes sense that an intelligent, albeit mysterious, creature like the Oogglith would prepare to deal with an obvious threat, even if it isn't planning on attacking on sight.
The Devilfish idea is pretty awesome. My party just curb-stomped the poor thing, so having that extra interaction is cool, especially since there's a high probability that the PCs will sell the Seasage Effigy anyways. I don't really see any problems with this; there's no other underwater stuff in the rest of the campaign and the drawbacks of the idol assure its sale. Treasure could be anything, Lake Encarthan probably holds endless treasure in its depths.
Glad you like the idea. Once the PCs mentioned the effigy, it seemed logical the Devilfish, with her devotion to Dagon, would be interested. Even if it might make more sense for her to come back with reinforcements to take it by force, I love the opportunity to deepen the complexity of the story and interactions without actually punishing the PCs for it. Also, I love the idea in my game of shades of evil. A bunch of evil Dagon worshipping Gutaki in the deepest waters are unlikely to pose much of a threat to life on land or to irresponsibly bring an outer god to Golarion (unlike the Skum). Heck, the effigy may pose less of a threat there than sitting on a shelf in a museum in Lepidstadt.
One question about the encounter with Oogglith. It's tactics require it to spend several rounds prepping for combat, yet it does not act hostile to the PCs at the outset, and it is unrealistic (and suicide) for it to spend rounds buffing once the fight is on. How did you all handle this issue?
I also want to share this: My PCs managed to parley with the devilfish (she was heavily wounded and in flight and they caught up to her with dimension door). They found out that she felt the skum had turned their backs on Dagon and the devilfish shared some information with the group, in exchange for the group sharing its information. Perhaps inadvisedly, the group mentioned the Seasage Effigy, and the devilfish became very interested in it, due to its connection with Dagon. She now wants to buy it from the group if they are able to recover it. I'm willing to have her pay them full value (I figure she can contact other Gutaki devilfish to gather the funds) and promise to leave this stretch of coast alone (the PCs have managed to start Illmarsh on a path to redemption by bringing in a priestess of Gozreh from outside town). Anyhow, the party loved interacting with the devilfish and it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Any thoughts or potential problems you perceive?
This is a total GM (my) judgment call, but I'm curious to get other views. We ended our last session with one of the PCs about to be charged and surprised/sneak attacked by three thugs. The PC wants to use a hero point to move before she is attacked. The player referred me to this use of hero points: "Act Out of Turn: You can spend a hero point to take your turn immediately. Treat this as a readied action, moving your initiative to just before the currently acting creature. You may only take a move or a standard action on this turn."
I'm not sure that technically applies, because this is a surprise round and the PC does not technically have a turn yet. I think the PC would actually get 2 things out of the use of the hero point: (1) getting to act in the surprise round; and (2) getting to act FIRST in the surprise round.
Would you let the PC use a hero point to act before her surprise assailants? If not, perhaps a compromise would be say that the use of the hero points means the PC isn't surprised, but the PC is still flat-footed if she doesn't beat the assailants in initiative? I'd probably roll the assailants' initiatives separately in that instance.
Thanks for all this. We ended the last session with the attacks unresolved, so I may just want to revise their action to say that they charge and sneak attack the PC (or at least 3 of them do). But can a charge and attack happen in a surprise round, which is just supposed to be one standard OR move action? A charge attack is usually a full round action.
I'm running a game where the PCs are exploring a temple. One PC is presently in a room with doors to the North and the South. The PC is in the open North doorway, distracted and looking North. Four temple rogues are hiding in the room to the south. All four try to sneak across the room to sneak attack the PC. Three beat the PC's perception, and one fails. Which of the following is the right result?
(1) The 3 that succeeded sneak across the room and get a surprise attack (sneak attack) on the PC. The 1 that failed moves across the room but does not get to act in the surprise round.
(2) There is no surprise round because 1 of the 4 failed and thus alerted the PC. All 4 only get sneak attacks only if they beat the PC's initiative and catch her flat-footed.
Is one of those right, or is there yet another result?
Wouldn't it be possible to devise some relationship (some deal) between the Mi-go and the WW rather than eliminating the Mi-go? Maybe there is something the Mi-go needed for their experiments that the WW provided them.
What is the WW's direct involvement in the goings-on in Illmarsh? I wonder if I might like to add more of a connection in my game as well (we've just started the module).
What a mess this thread is! It seems clear to me the grab and grapple rules don't work for a creature like a giant octopus and it is silly to try to apply RAW to that monster. A giant octopus can only hold one creature in its tentacles at a time? Silliness! It needs to take -20 on every constrict check because it needs to use its whole body to effectively constrict an opponent? Silliness! This is a massive creature with powerful and long tentacles that operate pretty independently, and every depiction in fantasy has them grappling several enemies at once. This is a place for the GM to ignore the rules and just have fun. As long as the PCs don't get killed, the rule semantics don't matter. So I guess one lesson is use this monster for flavor and not as a critical combat that needs to be run in a perfectly rule-certifiable way.
Thanks for your thoughts everyone. They encountered ghasts at the Sanctuary, which have a similar but much stronger smell than ghouls. But if the PC gets a good whiff, she would probably be able to guess it was ghouls.
But I like the idea that the ghouls smeared themselves with offal. They know the party has a half-orc, so a smart opponent might have considered the possibility that the half-orc has a sensitive sense of smell.
The scent description actually states, "False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures."
Assuming the barn door is open, I guess when the half-orc gets within 30 feet (assuming strong smell, downwind) I'll say that the barn smells very strongly of manure, as if it has not been cleaned out in a long time. I'll rule that masks the ghoul's smell, especially when they pop out covered in manure, although I suspect my half-orc PC will still complain. Scent is a bit overpowered, so I think it's fair to frustrate it this way.
I believe under RAW, scent IS a passive ability. That is, when the PC walks within 30 feet of a scent, he notices it. It is a move action to determine direction, not to detect that there is an odor. Is there disagreement on this?
Similarly, and as to the second point, aren't perception and sense motive also passive? That is, a PC gets to make a perception check whenever a foe is trying to hide from them (use stealth) or lie to them (use bluff). I don't think PCs need to declare they are trying to look or tell if someone is lying. I think the GM should automatically make the rolls for them when appropriate. Do you all disagree?
And thanks for all your thoughts on the encounter. I want to make sure I play it right technically, because if the assassin manages to kill someone I don't want to get into debates over rules. I agree that the assassin and ghouls are mincemeat after the surprise round, which is why I was hoping there is a rationale for the ghouls to get an attack in the surprise round.
I'll consider Raith's suggestion to have the attack happen elsewhere, but I think I may want to move things along out of Thrushmoor...
I have a few questions about the ambush at the stables that starts the adventure:
(1) A half-orc fighter-rogue in the party has scent. I think this means the ambush has no chance of success. When the half-orc enters the barn it will smell the ghouls in the hay wagon and know something is up. Am I missing something?
(2) Did you players not make the perception and sense motive rolls to sniff out the ambush? The aforementioned half-orc has crazy high perception and sense motive -- it seems unlikely she will miss the DCs.
(3) How does the ambush work mechanically?
I see no reason why that wouldn't work, and it would certainly make things more straightforward. I found Estovion's ambiguous position with respect to the WW to be interesting, and my party certainly had some good RP in terms of figuring out where he fit in (they even let him go ultimately, since he wasn't actually aligned with the WW), but I don't think there is a fundamental problem with making him a straight up WW agent.
I think that all sounds workable. I like the idea of the werewolves being diminished in number. That matches with the limited numbers that appear in the rest of the module. It also makes sense that the tribes of natural werewolves would have trouble maintaining numbers. But it does beg for an explanation why the demon wolves, who are not natural werewolves, wouldn't immediately dominate the other tribes, especially considering how virulent the curse of lycanthropy is. Perhaps only a small number of infected werewolves can gain enough control over their transformations to become a part of werewolf society?
The small number of werewolves approach answers the issue with respect to your village, and also why travelers to the Lodge are not attacked. My PCs asked about that, and I said the Lodge had powerful allies whose wrath would be brought down on the werewolves if they targeted the Lodge or its guests. That worked.
One note of caution -- when the PCs meet two Primals in the woods early on, the module describes a cascade of howls in the wood, giving the impression of numerous werewolves. That is certainly how my players took it. In my mind the howls were from wolves under the sway of the werewolves, not other werewolves. But you should be aware of the possibility of creating a misimpression if you play that part as written.
I also like the idea of making Rhakis CG -- it makes sense considering the role of the Prince's Wolves vis-a-vis the WW. I've effectively done the same. I introduced him before the attack on the Stairs of the Moon. In my game, Madam Ivanja in the Lodge is an ally of the Prince's Wolves and she set up a meeting with Rhakis once the PCs convinced her of their goals and of the danger of the WW.
I wanted to share a perspective on Estovion's last stand at the Stairs of the Moon. The module suggests that Estovion is cornered and will fight to the death, but he has the dimensional steps ability, so he isn't really trapped at all. At any time he could just blink out the back wall.
Also, I don't think he is a very formidable opponent for the party in a direct match like that.
Interestingly, my PCs let Estovion go after he handed over the canopic stone that would allow them to destroy the Vilkacis. Although they viewed him as evil, they (accurately) understood that he wasn't really aligned with the WW. They also thought he was more of a threat than he was. And they had trouble getting at him through the bars (be prepared to know the DCs to break through the bars; I decided the lock was melted so that our rogue couldn't just pick the lock.) In the end, they gave Estovion a dose of wolfsbane (since he is infected), he gave them the canopic stone, and then he dimension stepped some distance away with the understanding the PCs wouldn't give pursuit, which they didn't.
I actually found it a pretty logical resolution. I'll have to decide whether Estovion shows up in Caliphas or something. Any ideas for bringing him into the story later would be appreciated.
Interesting ideas. We have limited game time, so I'm generally not looking for ways to expand the AP, other than customizations that don't add a lot of game time. I think the main things you would need to think about are (1) how does the village survive in a woods full of werewolves (not to mention other creatures) and (2) how would a long winter residence in the lodge affect the overall timeline of the AP?
On the second issue, I suppose it is easy enough to suggest that Vrood has to stay in Feldgrau a long time to raise a big enough army, although you'd want to include an explanation of why his work wouldn't be discovered over the course of months. The first issue seems trickier, at least if your players are (like mine) inclined to ask questions trying to figure out whether everything makes sense...
It is certainly interesting from an RP and story perspective, depending on how you've presented the Beast and his relationship with Caromac. I think in most games the players will have a lot of allegiance to the Beast, so it could be tough making them fight him, although, again, it would be interesting from a RP perspective.
In my game, the fight against the Promethean was tough and satisfying -- it can handle multiple opponents better than a lot of single opponents -- so I wouldn't want to have omitted that.
I think I want to make it a bit harder on the PCs. How could they determine infection with a heal check, where the disease/curse says it doesn't manifest until the first moon?
Power Word Unzip wrote:
Remember that even if their cleric can cast remove curse, it has to be cast at CL 12 or higher to negate the lycanthropy, and must be applied within 3 days of being infected. If you're at the same point as me in the module, your party is probably about 8th level -- so that cure is a no-go. (Of course, you don't have to tell your players that.... =D)
I have kept this in mind, and I think the players are aware of it too (they rocked some research rolls). But I believe there is a CL 12 remove curse scroll in the room where the Vilkacis' remains are, so they can use that to cure one of the PCs.
My PCs just defeated Mathus at the top of the Stairs of the Moon. Two of the PCs are inflicted with lycanthropy (I'm kind of amazed not all 4 of them are). For a module that leaves such a high likelihood of the party contracting lycanthropy, it provides little guidance...
My understanding is that the lycanthropy does not manifest itself until the first moon. HOWEVER, the module seems to contemplate an immediate full moon after the Stairs of the Moon encounter, because the demon wolves turn Duristan into a werewolf, and he is aware of and has embraced his new condition by the time the PCs get to Feldgrau...
And how have you handled your PCs getting lycanthropy? Did they all gobble wolfsbane? I kept the FORT save secret and all four of my PCs got bitten -- does that mean I should let them all think they have lycanthropy and gobble wolfsbane? But all the CON damage they will take would throw off the pace of the adventure.
I guess the cleric can cast remove curse, and might prepare it a few times if I gave enough hints, so she can cast it on the two inflicted party members the night of the full moon?
I'd love to hear how this all went down in your games.
Interesting. My PCs were the opposite in the Lodge. They triggered maximum levels of suspicion in no time, so all of the events happened in quick sequence and Estovion fled the second night the PCs were there.
I think you are right that Rhakis knew the WW wanted Sain's heart for some reason, although the module indicates that Rhakis wants to eat Mathus' heart to become Packlord himself. I made him quite explicit about this. Since the PCs have figured out the Prince's Wolves are historical foes of the WW and the only technically non-evil tribe, they were willing to make the alliance.
I actually felt it was important that the PCs form some explicit alliance before going into the Stairs of the Moon. Otherwise, why would the werewolves allow the PCs to activate the Dusk Moth? In my mind, the Prince's Wolves, as Varisian wanderers, are actually pretty ok with Desna, so they will make sure the PCs get the space they need to perform the ceremony. But I'm dumping the requirement of a full day of cleaning the temple -- that doesn't jive with the importance of pursuing the WW.
By the way, I made Madame Ivanja a Szcarni ally of the Prince's Wolves, but not a werewolf herself.