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Ezren

Voadam's page

764 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Tacticslion wrote:
I'm reasonably certain that does not, in any way, represent the original stories.

Sure it does. Just extremely poorly.

Such missed potential with Kiefer Sutherland as Raistlin.


Hunh. I hadn't even noticed the 10' scale. I was thinking it felt a little cramped when I did out the battle mats, particularly the giant in the corridor with the Andrazku. 10' makes more sense.


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Jim Groves wrote:


I appreciate the concern and it is noted. A writer has to make some choices sometimes and this was one of them. I'm not perfect, but I know I have great Editors like Judy Baur to help when I don't see my own biases.

I like having her in there, her story is an interesting addition. Being a lesbian in an existing relationship already subverts the female prize trope. I changed her story slightly to make her more of a secret milanite revolutionary in Cheliax which tied into Solveig and the Heralds spy ring a little more, but the default gives a bunch to work with.

Reign of Winter is a Dark Fairy Tale theme and a pretty princess captured by a dragon in need of rescuing works well for that theme. Nobody is going to look at RoW or the Shackled Hut and come away with an impression that women are portrayed as nothing but damsels in distress. There are a ton of female villains, competent women, and brave female NPCs standing up to evil.

She is a first level bard in a dangerous setting between trolls and a dragon. I expect her to be scared as in a fight everything there is way above her weight class. I too had thought of her potentially inspiring courage in the Logrvich climax despite the text about her being too scared to help in a fight but since my party already had a bard it was not something that played out.


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thejeff wrote:
A black (Garundi) pirate captain.

Dragonlance did it decades ago. ;)

Though I'm still not sure where the asians are in Dragonlance, I vaguely remember some mongol types in the other continent boxed set but nothing in the novels or modules.

And I don't recall any of their gods being portrayed directly as black either, although they had each culture picturing the gods appearing as themselves.


Tangent101 wrote:


When they find her, they'll find her pissed, with only underclothes and a winter blanket, and her clothes having been taken to stop her escape attempts.

. . .

Seriously. I understand tropes and all... but the damsel in distress is perhaps overdone and sometimes you need to actively avert the trope. After all, it is twists in the faerie tales that make them so compelling. This is a twist well worth making. :)

I don't think changing her trope from damsel in distress to unclothed spitfire damsel in distress changes the trope all that much. Still a pretty female character needing to be rescued, only now she's in just titillating underwear instead of fully clothed. That emphasizes her humiliation, vulnerability, and sexuality.

If you want to avert the trope by having her being a profanity spewing powerhouse I'd suggest also have the trolls or Nanny Gran comment on how they'd rather face armed warriors any day than the singer's scalding tongue again.


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Lady Kamari Ipeq wrote:
Voadam, fair enough, but is there a god of drizzle and a little bit of fog? There are plenty of thunder gods though.

One of the Nephali, perhaps? ;)


I believe in Golarion they go with the one step rule for deity alignment, so NG Sarenrae has paladins but N Pharasma does not. While Sarenrae is all about good, her paladins hold themselves to a strict lawful code that is not necessary for other followers of Sarenrae.

Talk to your DM about how he handles LG, the paladin code, and what constitutes an evil act, as those are the big trips for a paladin to fall and over which there can be a lot of disagreement which could lead to resentment.


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After glancing through the areas of concern for the evil and neutral gods I think Gyronna's spite is the best match for petty lashing out at everyone because something bad happened to you.


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Lady Kamari Ipeq wrote:

Gods are the epitome of human virtues and vices and emotions. Not sure what would be the point of gods otherwise.

Eh, lots of gods are just powered up natural phenomena or cosmic roles and have nothing to do with epitomizing human virtues, vices, or emotions.


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JiCi wrote:
NG, NE, N, LN and CN dragons... basically alignment/balance dragons.

Check out this thread on ENWorld for examples of NE and NG dragons including lots of d20 ones.


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The 3e books were not released under the OGL. The 3e and 3.5 and d20 modern SRDs containing rules material identical to that in a few non-open WotC books were released under the OGL. So those components of those rules sets were released under the OGL. Compliance with the OGL is fairly easy for 3e based stuff.

4e did not have an SRD released under the OGL. The 4e rules were not released under the OGL. Some companies released OGL stuff for 4e. Early 4e Goodman games modules for example. They had to be careful about terms they used and such to comply with the OGL.

5e does not have an SRD released under the OGL. Anyone releasing 5e stuff under the OGL has to be careful about how they do it to comply with the OGL.


Spook205 wrote:


As for the empowering thing, holy symbols are odd in that regard. There's no specific rules for creating them. Given that a tattoo can function as a holy symbol, I imagine that any old common symbol would work.

Any cross can work against a vampire. Even some guy holding up two stakes and improvving a cross. A cross is a cross.


I would have them succeed and sneak past. They got through this one no fight, now on to the other encounters while still fresh. You do have more encounters than just the one bypassable one, right?

Having the monkey swarms two or three encounters after the juggernauts so they know that retreating means facing the juggernauts in combat would be kind of fantastic though.


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A couple comments after reading the World of Aetaltis section.

Atlan is very similar to Aetaltis and causes a little confusion. Similar for Endroren and Enaros.

Atlans are the humans and non natives which is a neat twist.

No summoning or teleport magic, no druids or monks, no half races, no gnomes. Dwarves have volatile gunpowder, but there are no firearms.

Divine magic comes from the Enaros gods, but we only know one is Aelos who rules the moon, the last stop before the gods' afterlife. We also know Endrorden is the evil overthrown former ruler of the gods.

At first I thought the Drothmal were a human ethnicity, but I think they are a fully different race, not sure how to conceptualize what they look like besides barbarians. Same with the intellectual Newardins. I thought the Cheebats were halflings at first but it looks like they are different.

The follow up history in the village section is useful for a lot of world details.


thunderbeard wrote:
Oh! I thought Lunge was "end of your next turn." Good to know. Mythic Combat Reflexes (at least how I read it) lets you make one attack per square of movement; Cage Enemy just takes 5' steps off the table.

Mythic combat reflexes does allow extra AoOs on movement provoking ones, but only with a swift action and spending a mythic power use. That will last until the start of your next turn.

Cage requires an immediate action, one mythic power use and lasts until the end of your next turn.

So you could do swift on your turn then immediate right after your turn (taking your swift from your next round) and have both going and cycle through with the power active for half the time.

So it can be done some of the time with a lot of mythic power and action expenditure.


thunderbeard wrote:


With Retributive Reach, Cage Enemy, and Mythic Combat Reflexs, a Tier 3 guardian gets two free attacks at max BAB against anyone who tries to engage them in melee; with Enlarge Person and Lunge, this goes up to four free attacks at max BAB.

How do you get your four attacks? Lunge only works to extend reach until the end of your turn, not for threatening between turns. Are you reading the Cage AoO for moving out of a threatened square as one on top of the normal AoO from movement from a threatened square? Even if it did, with cage enemy if your cage AoO hits and does damage they end their movement so can't provoke any more cage attacks.


LazarX wrote:
Voadam wrote:
LazarX wrote:
noble peasant wrote:


Flipping that question back to you. If you ARE that good and awesome, then why would you intentionally be doing evil? It's supposed to be tougher to live up to the standards of Good as opposed to Evil or Neutrality... just like it is in the real world.

If you're looking to operate on the modality that Good and Evil are nothing more than two flip sides of the same coin, you're not operating under the default assumptions of Pathfinder, and certainly not Golarion.

Where do you get that it is supposed to be tougher to live up to the standards of good than evil or neutrality?

What part of the Hero in Heroic Fantasy do you not get? If you really think that Good requires no more effort than evil, you not only do NOT get the genre, you've missing out on a lot that's been happening around you the bulk of your life. And if you are truly that unobservant, than there is absolutely nothing further I can say to answer you.

Nonsense.

Pathfinder is set up to make it easy to be good. Written adventures are full of opportunities to help others, fight evil, and do good. Characters' jobs are often to do good. Magic mechanically rewards good over evil in many ways, a holy sword is more likely to get its bonus than an unholy sword in most adventures. Good and evil alignments are defined in the game and the good standard is not difficult to attain. Protect innocents, work for good causes, be the hero doing good in adventure stories often designed for heroes to do good.

As I quoted from the definitions before "A creature's general moral and personal attitudes are represented by its alignment". If your general moral attitude is good, you are good alignment in pathfinder. It is not a hard struggle to roleplay a good character in a Pathfinder game.

This is in keeping with the heroic fantasy genre. In the Lord of the Rings for the heroes, the fellowship of the ring, it was easy for them to be good. They volunteered to try to save the world from evil. Only the corrupting ring made it significantly difficult and this only really caused moral problems for Boromir when he tries to take it and for Frodo at the end (and the minor power temptation scenes for Gandalf and Galadriel). Aragorn, no problems. Gimli, no problem. Legolas, no problem. Sam, Merry, Pippin, good throughout. Gandalf is good.

You want a game where it is tough to be good check out Vampire. While pathfinder could be played as a Game of Thrones style game with lots of brutality, corruption and incentives for moral compromises, the default of Pathfinder makes it easy to be a good hero.


LazarX wrote:
noble peasant wrote:


Flipping that question back to you. If you ARE that good and awesome, then why would you intentionally be doing evil? It's supposed to be tougher to live up to the standards of Good as opposed to Evil or Neutrality... just like it is in the real world.

If you're looking to operate on the modality that Good and Evil are nothing more than two flip sides of the same coin, you're not operating under the default assumptions of Pathfinder, and certainly not Golarion.

Where do you get that it is supposed to be tougher to live up to the standards of good than evil or neutrality?

The definitions of alignments in the pathfinder core RPG do not say it is tougher to be good, it just says they are different.

"Good characters and creatures protect innocent life. Evil characters and creatures debase or destroy innocent life"

"A creature's general moral and personal attitudes are represented by its alignment"

Doing some evil but on the whole having the balance come out to good and having a good alignment seems completely supported by the concepts of alignment in pathfinder.


Flaming or flaming burst weapon. Something with cold resistance (ring or armor).


There were contradictions in rules in 1e beyond the half elf bard option. I'm trying to remember if it was half-elves who could be multiclass druid rangers. Druids of course must be true neutral and not good while rangers must be good and not true neutral.


j b 200 wrote:
I would disagree. You can only take (or offer) an alignment domain if you have that element in your Alignment. You can't offer the Law domain if you are not lawful.

It says take two domains and does not say you are barred from taking alignment domains if you are neutral.


You do not have an alignment so you cannot be forced to take matching alignment domains for your two domains.

Quote:

Beyond Morality (Ex): You have no alignment. You can become a member of any class, even one with an alignment requirement, and can never lose your membership because of a change in alignment. If you violate the code of ethics of any of your classes, you might still lose access to certain features of such classes, subject to GM discretion. Attempts to detect your alignment don't return any results. If a class restricts you from casting spells with an alignment descriptor, you can cast such spells without restrictions or repercussions. If you're the target of a spell or effect that is based on alignment, you're treated as the most favorable alignment when determining the spell's effect on you. Any effects that alter alignment have no effect on you. If you lose this effect, you revert to your previous alignment.

Divine Source (Su): You can grant divine spells to those who follow your cause, allowing them to select you as their deity for the purposes of determining their spells and domains. Select two domains upon taking this ability. These domains must be alignment domains matching your alignment if possible, unless your alignment is neutral. You grant access to these domains as if you were a deity. Creatures that gain spells from you don't receive any spells per day of levels higher than your tier; they lose those spell slots. In addition, you can cast spells from domains you grant as long as their level is equal to or less than your tier. Each day as a spell-like ability, you can cast one spell of each level equal to or less than your tier (selecting from those available to you from your divine source domains). If you're a cleric or you venerate a deity, you may change your spell domains to those you grant others. At 6th tier and 9th tier, you can select this ability again, adding one domain and two subdomains (see the Advanced Player's Guide) to your list each time and adding their spells to the list of those that you can cast.


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Auxmaulous wrote:

I have a question for Greg - does Shades of Yellow have anything to do with a Tattered King?

Or is Yellow just your favorite color?

Like brave Sir Robin, my favorite color is also yellow...no, blue! AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!

I can neither confirm nor deny the involvement of any kings tattered or in any other states of disarray.

Completely unreltated then, how about theatre productions in Shades of Yellow? I do so like cultural events in my RPGs for the PCs to participate in.


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
P.S. The Lost Lands: Cults of the Sundered Kingdoms KS launches very soon...maybe as early as tomorrow. More news on that as it comes.

Noted.


Monster advancing by HD.

Pathfinder is weird and convoluted for doing this. Since it is based on hp increase and going up HD to hit that hp for CR target it makes high con creatures get less in return for advancing than low con creatures.

3.5 advancement was much more straightforward.


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Flying not being a skill. You had a speed and a maneuverability class and that defined what you could do, no rolling needed in the middle of combat.


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Stuff from Unearthed Arcana, gestalt, spontaneous divine casting, fractional saves.

I will review anything for inclusion.


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Odin could legitimately be chaotic (trickster), lawful (Allfather, war leader, shaper of the world), or neutral (elements of both). There are lots of contradictory ways to portray gods. So don't worry about getting them to match the real way norse gods were, focus on how you want them in your game.

There will be stories that contradict any portrayal you put down as the source myths are multiple and contradictory, so don't sweat that issue. You want evil Loki? Go for it. You want helpful trickster blood-brother to Odin and travel companion to Thor ally Loki? Go for it.


Modules would say in the beginning how many players and what level ranges but they were all over the place on how many players. 4-6 seemed normal. D&D itself just assumed however many were around of whatever level and you would go with mixed level and xp parties and varying party sizes. Party mix was assumed to be a factor in how you chose to approach things in the sandbox.


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While some say that clerics get their power from gods they actually get it from tapping into divine power directly through specific magical traditions. All clerics are godless whether they know it or not, they are simply magic users that tap into a different type of power than arcane casters.

Gods worshipped by clerics may be actual gods, misunderstood gods, outsiders powered by divine power, powerful outsiders, powerful beings like dragons or giants or aberrations, or even complete myths. If they master their magical tradition they get their power. There are also organizations not devoted to god worship that practice divine magical traditions.


My campaign setting is a mash up of a bunch I really like including Ptolus, Golarion, and Freeport.

Centaurs:

Iobaria as seen in Reign of Winter still has them in plenty as the dominant race, but they are Amerindian Apache and Comanche based and not steppes/Mongol/eastern european flavored.

Main continent has greek ones, both the Chiron inspired goodish ones and the warcraft traditional greek bloodthirsty barbarian based ones.

Nyambe/Garund has zebrataurs and the rhino-big blocky guy ones from one of the creature collections. Wemics too.


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Luna eladrin wrote:
Since one of my players has a PC with profession (cooking), I have ruled that everything has to be boiled in a huge cauldron. So probably they will have to cook chicken soup.

"Fine centaurs of Vunirin! We are going to make a wonderful soup for the whole encampment today! Made with a magical recipe that only calls for one ingredient. Stone soup for all of Vunirin, come and see!"

"Our magical stone soup is wonderful, universally praised in Irrisen, Ustalav and Mendev, but if only we had a little bit of salt. Stone soup with salt is truly superb . . ."


Tiaximus wrote:

Wow, what was your point buy to begin with? That's a pretty fantastic option. If you were playing 15 point buy, I would still totally do triple gestalt. That's a fun combo, too. Did you take an archetype with the fighter that gave up most of the armor proficiency, or just go with fighter just like it is? Would be fun to go Arcanist/Brawler/Fighter, too.

Just curious, why didn't everyone decide to take the gestalt option(s)?

I forget exactly, it was very high but we had to buy our race as well.

I had str 14, dex 12, con 12, int 14 (bumped to 16 with human) and 7 wis and 7 cha. with a background of having been captured and tortured by demons (explaining the 7 wis and cha). It is a homebrewed monk class of the DM's so wisdom is not central to the class.

I took lorewarden as my fighter archetype and at midlevels I'm having a good time tripping and disarming lots of people despite the constant combat expertise penalties.

The paladin bard wanted a high charisma and high dex for his magical archer concept and the sorcerer wanted a straightforward focused character with high stats.


from the PRD:

Quote:
The alignments listed for each monster in this book represent the norm for those monsters—they can vary as you require them to in order to serve the needs of your campaign. Only in the case of relatively unintelligent monsters (creatures with an Intelligence of 2 or lower are almost never anything other than neutral) and planar monsters (outsiders with alignments other than those listed are unusual and typically outcasts from their kind) is the listed alignment relatively unchangeable.

Humanoids from evil races are not themselves invariably evil, its just the norm for them. So their offspring raised in non-evil environments with non-evil cultures are definitely not invariably evil.


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So Servant of the White Ape has the noble Joseph Kortz who is corrupted "after entering the dark heart of the southern continent".

Is Jeff Lee a big fan of Kurtz from Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness?


I'm playing in a Wrath of the Righteous game where we had the option to drop our point by 5 points to gestalt and an extra 5 points to double gestalt. I went wizard/monk/fighter. Basically I use wizard as a self buff and play the party tank. Not the strongest combo, or use of the wizard stuff, but it is a lot of fun to punch demons in the face.

In the group we also have a gestalt ranger/fighter, a paladin, a nongestalt paladin/bard, and a blaster style sorcerer.


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Tacticslion wrote:

So...

Reign of Winter [67-69, at least]: six (one of which isn't used).

That's about as many as Council of Thieves, though CoT had one more and had one more unused monster. It's a bit of a wash for which one has more in that case.

Thanks!

Close, 69 uses three, four and two of the same type at various points, so nine of one type with 1d4 bleed showing up in the module, and they can potentially summon more. That plus the unused bestiary one.


I usually run off of modules so they are a significant but not omnipresent monster type. I had two dragons in my last half AP campaign that they fought directly, one tatzylwyrm and one true dragon plus lots of plot hooks on dragon history with PCs and NPCs including a barbarian/dragon blooded sorcerer PC.


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There is moral evil and there is supernatural force [evil]. All undead creation spells tap into supernatural [evil] and animate dead bodies with [evil] power. Animate object can work on dead bodies without using supernatural [evil] and make shambling servitors that are not evil aligned. I see skeletons and zombies as evil because I view them as wandering around and attacking living creatures as a default if not under command. If they were neutral like in 3.0 or AD&D they would just stand there if uncommanded.

I am very in line with the PFS ruling, the spells are [evil] but the morality of using it depends on the circumstances. Similar to using an unholy sword.


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LazarX wrote:


Go all the way back to the original AD+D Monster manual and look up ghosts, skeletons, and other such, and you'll find Alignment:Evil on the lot.

Double check your AD&D books. Mindless skeletons and zombies are neutral in my AD&D monstrous moanual and remained so in 3.0 until 3.5. :)


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Tacticslion wrote:


... sure, let's look! I'm curious now.

Rise of the Runelords: pg 19 of the last volume, there's one guy (deals 1d8 per round for 4 rounds, though, not just 1).

Curse of the Crimson Throne: not that I can find.

The Second Darkness: pg 64 of the third volume, the greater demonic boon to Andirifkhu causes bleed 1 (not stacking); no specific NPC has this.

Legacy of Fire: pg 41 of the fifth volume has some guys with bleed 1 (it doesn't stack with itself).

Council of Thieves: pg 88 bestiary has a swarm with bleed 1; these creatures do not appear in the adventure or random encounter. Pg 28 in part three has a creature with bleed (1d2). Pp 18-19 of part four has a fellow with bleed (a rogue with the talent), as does pp 11 and 25 of part 5; speaking of part 5, there's a creature in the Bestiary on pg 84 that does so from the Bleeding Critical feat, but it does not appear in the adventure or random encounter tables. Pp 10-11 has another rogue-y fellow with the talent, as does pg 52; a critter in the bestiary on page 80 and another on pg 86 from the feat mentioned before (again, neither appear in the adventure or random encounters) round out the AP's bleed installments. That one has a lot!

I'm out of time for now, but that's what I've found to date.

Of five, one lacks it altogether, three only have a single instance (one of which isn't actually part of the AP), and one is chock full of it!

More later! (Unless someone else takes over - please, someone else, take over.)

Neat. :)

EDIT: for clarity.

I'll check the three I have access to right now.

AP 67 Snows of Summer page 28 has one with 1d4 bleed.
AP 68 Shackled Hut Page 20 bleed 3.
AP 69 Mother Maiden Crone Page 18 three with 1d4 and can summon more, Page 27 four with 1d4 and can summon more, Page 40 two with 1d4 and can summon more, Page 90 unused new monster with 1d4.


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kestral287 wrote:

Only as a resource-extender.

On the one hand, it means you'll be back to full health after each fight. On the other... that's pretty much something we assume anyway.

In fights, unless your FH is really, really high it's not going to be noticeable. Fast Healing 4 is DR 4/- once per round. Um. Woo? And there aren't any ways I can think of to get a Fast Healing higher than 4 on a PC so that's pretty much your limit.

It does give you some semi-useful immunities-- Bleed effects auto-fail against you, for example, and you don't need to roll to stabilize. But that's minor stuff.

Mythic can give it as the first mythic power.

Quote:

1st-Tier Guardian Path Abilities

You can select these path abilities at any tier.

Fast Healing (Ex): As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to gain fast healing 5 for 1 minute. This ability can be taken a second time at 3rd tier or higher and a third time at 6th tier or higher. Each additional time you take this ability, the fast healing increases by 5.


Allluria Publishing has some fantastic ones. Beasts of the Boundless Blue for aquatic monsters, Fey Folio Clans of the Fey for fey, and Creepy Creatures Bestiary of the Bizaare for a variety of monsters. Also their Remarkable Races provides a neat variety of nonhumans.

Fat Goblin Games has Forgotten Foes, a Pathfinderization of a bunch of 3e OGL monsters, the smaller Fat Goblin Travel Guide To Horrible Horrors & Macabre Monsters and Horrors of the North.

Bestiary of Loerem from Timeout Diversions is the new pathfinderized Sovereign stone bestiary. I had the 3.0 version and it was filled with lots of beasts with few magical powers.

Creatures of Barsaive is the pathfinderized Earthdawn bestiary.

Malevolent and Benign is a pathfinderized version of a selection of 120 monsters from XRP's 3.5 Monster Geographica series.

Mosnters of Sin Collection is seven themed sets of monsters from Kobold Press. I keep being tempted to pick this up.

The Black Bestiary Skortched Urf Studios' Hentai themed bestiary. Don't own it, can't comment on its contents or quality. Their shorter space and nemesis bestiaries are decent enough though.

The Great City Urban Creatures and Lairs by 0one Games. A city themed bestiary I again keep being tempted to pick up.

Mor Alden Creature Compendium from Headless Hydra Games is only 35 pages but I like it.

and Tome of Monsters originally by 4 Winds Games who got bought out by Pruple Duck Games has a lot of neat monsters from real folklore and myths.


In for the raffle. Ethermagic looks particularly interesting.


I tend to play tough guys who will have a shot at surviving dangerous situations. I generally focus a little more on defense than on offense and it is rare for me to play a glass cannon (though I have). Even my wizards are often multiclassed fighters or rangers. This includes a bodyguard archetype in Shadowrun, a major robot suit in Heroes unlimited, a protagonist/judicial champion dwarf in Warhammer, even my Malkavian vampire non offense character had great obfuscate that often kept him safe in combat.

I tend to come up with a lot of crusaders against evil as character motivation, even in things like Vampire the Masquerade.

There is a little theme of insanity among some of my more major characters.

Online I like to talk and notice lots of details and figure out plots.

In person I like to talk but also punch things in the face in as straightforward a mechanical manner as I can. In person I miss things at the moment like last week when I cast improved invisibility despite the DM having said the worm dragon appeared blind, and since it is a dragon I am background aware they generally have blindsense/acute dragon senses.

I prefer mechanically simple, but I only do moderately well to poorly in resisting complex character options.


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Tacticslion wrote:
Religious aside about Christianity and Cannibalism: ** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Its not verboeten, for many its mandatory :)

"Take, eat; this is my body." Matthew 26:26

Transubstantiation


Ashiel wrote:
Serum wrote:

What about advanced and giant?

Giant seems strictly worse than spending the time to advance the creature by HD, but not that much worse (in that the point in its use is for quick adjustments, not extensive creature changes).

Similar problems with the advanced and giant templates. Both tend to have very profound effects on very low CR creatures, only to turn anything in the middle/upper range into XP/loot pinatas.

For example, applying the advanced template to a CR 1/3 orc warrior to bring it to CR 1/2 may result in the orc ruthlessly destroying your entire party (as +2 to everything is very potent at this CR range), while applying the advanced template to a Hezrou demon may not even have a noticeable difference beyond increasing the creature's XP value.

In a similar vein, the giant and young templates generally produce creatures that aren't weak enough to warrant the -1 CR, or aren't strong enough to warrant +1 CR. Especially since those templates don't actually influence the effects of HD like actual advancement does, and/or have no affect on the majority of a creature's abilities (unless those abilities are directly influenced by Str/Con).

Here's an example from the campaign I'm running right now. As part of a major boss-encounter, I decided to drop a bigass Hezrou demon into the game (because bigger is badder! >:D) and was lazy about it and just applied the giant template. The effect it had was +1 CR, but only mildly affected its attack routine, made it a lot easier to hit (the Dex penalty plus the size penalty) without making it significantly beefier (the Con boost was not enough to make up for the lost HD).

Had I done it manually through HD advancement, the demon would have become huge sized, gained 5 HD, +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +3 natural armor. By virtue of gaining 5 HD, he would have gotten an additional +5 BAB and 3 additional feats, and +1 to an ability score of its choice (such as Con). Counting the boosted Con, said demon would have went from 145 HP to 262 HP. His attack routine would have gone from +17 to +25, and his damage bonus from +8 to +12. His saves would have also increased by +4, +0, +2.

The end result was very disappointing. >_>
The simple template, like the advanced template is brutally powerful on a low-CR enemy. Grossly disappointing on a higher level enemy. Which is, again, very sad.

The end result was that the creatures "bigness" was merely an illusion. It felt tacked on (as it was) and I'd have been better off just eating the extra CR adjustment for advancing him in HD and actually have the fight with him feel appropriately epic. Live and learn. :P

I don't think that is a fair comparison.

The giant template increases the CR by +1 to 12. To advance a Hezrou to a comparable CR 12 by adding racial HD you would only add one HD, which would be significantly less impressive than the extra reach and +8 str bonus, +3 natural armor that the giant template gives the now huge hezrou. The giant template seems a bigger power up than the racial HD here.

Increasing the HD by taking the CR 11 from 145 hp to 262 hp increases the CR to 17. Alterantively to advancing the racial HD you could go with giant template and then add on five CR of levels, for class abilities, NPC stat boosts, and NPC gear. That can be adding on more than the 5 racial HD.

So for increasing a monster's power it seems that using the template and other methods to hit the target CR than using racial HD advancement leads to a stronger encounter.

I don't know if this applies universally, but for your example CR 11 Hezrou that's how it looks to me.

Partly its because the CR increase from HD is based solely on hp increased, high con monsters get fewer HD per CR increase but most everything else flows from the HD (BAB, saves, DCs).


Any word on when? All I saw was sometime in 2015.


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Tels wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

Pfff... You WoW players care only about optimization, DPR and rollplaying!

Back in my day players roleplayed so well that Robert DeNiro, Marlon Brando and Al Paccino would be jealous of our players' performance! And our storylines were so deep, emotionally involving and thought-provoking that they put Citizen Kane, To Kill a Mocking Bird and Casablanca to shame!

Oh, yeah... We had roleplay-heavy games! Like Tomb of Horrors... And great freedom and focus on character customization... With our random rolled stats and attribute prerequisites for base classes...

Grumble, grumble...

But did you have to carry the Ring to Morodor up hill, both ways, in the snow?

Uphill only, obviously. First off we never expected to make it back down the mountain. Then suprise eagles.

Kids these days, no sense of history or the classics.


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Anguish wrote:

it's important to label the containers.

"Igor, just out of curiosity, what was the name on the container?"

"Oh, um, it was Abby something."

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