Vinecent's page

So basically, it's invisibility. I mean let's just call it what it is.

Would someone official please state outright whether or not the Hide in Plain Sight supernatural ability is thwarted by darkvision.

Seriously, please - it's a yes or no question and would help me out immensely.

I have asked the same thing. My post may demonstrate the opposing view if you are interested.

I do hope that someone at Paizo officially clarifies this issue.

I have spent some time reading over the various posts in this thread. I returned to the official rules printed in the books and on the Pathfinder SRD website. I quote the passages directly along with page numbers.

Copied and pasted from Pathfinder SRD website:

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex)
Prerequisite: Advanced talents

Benefit: A rogue with this talent can select a single terrain from the ranger’s favored terrain list. She is a master at hiding in that terrain, and while within that terrain, she can use the Stealth skill to hide, even while being observed.

Special: A rogue may take this advanced talent more than once, each time selecting a different terrain from the favored terrain list.

Copied and pasted from Ultimate Combat p71

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): A rogue with this talent can select a single terrain from the ranger’s favored terrain list. She is a master at hiding in that terrain, and while within that terrain, she can use the Stealth skill to hide, even while being observed.

Pay special attention to the above and you will notice a recurring theme. Hide in plain sight allows you to use the Stealth skill even while being observed.

Copied and pasted from Pathfinder Core Rulebook page 67, Ranger class ability

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any of his favored terrains, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed.

Again, the same thing. “even while being observed…” there is nothing here about not needing concealment.

Copied and pasted from Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Shadowdancer class ability

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A shadowdancer can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of an area of dim light, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

Note that it still says even while being observed….as long as you are within 10 feet area of dim light (ie shadows, darkness, CONCEALMENT). The next part is very important. There is a subtle distinction that some people are missing. “Hide behind” means to use cover to hide. It says right in the Stealth skill that you can use cover or concealment. This is just saying that the Shadowdancer needs only a bit of shadow to CONCEAL themselves.

Copied and pasted from Pathfinder Core Rulebook Stealth skill:

If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can’t use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.

Above is the reference to concealment and the Stealth skill.

Copied and pasted from Pathfinder Core Rulebook page 197

Concealment and Stealth Checks: You can use concealment to make a Stealth check. Without concealment, you usually need cover to make a Stealth check.

Ignoring Concealment: Concealment isn’t always effective. An area of dim lighting or darkness doesn’t provide any concealment against an opponent with darkvision.

This means that you must always have either concealment or cover to use Stealth. If you are using shadows and/or darkness as concealment then it is not effective against opponents with Darkvision.

I would actually like to see an official ruling on this. If someone from Paizo could either make the ruling or post a link where it could be found, I would appreciate it.

Shinigaze wrote:

Dear James,

I know stealth has always been a point of contention on the forums but I have a question in regards the the Shadowdancer and Assassin's Hide in Plain Sight supernatrual ability. If a shadowdancer is standing is standing within 10' of an area of dim light does the ability let him use stealth against everybody? Or, can he not stealth against people who have for instance Low Light Vision who do not perceive the area around him as dim light but instead see it as normal light?

A point of contention in some places on the forums, perhaps. I like to think they're not a point of contention here! :-)

If a shadowdancer is within dim light and can thus use Hide in Plain Sight, yes, that lets him try to Stealth against everyone. Low Light Vision and darkvision don't particularly help or limit this.

I am not quite understanding this particular rule. I see that Hide in Plain Sight (for the Shadowdancer) requires that the character be within 10 feet of an area of dim light or shadow for this ability to work. That being said, and comparing this to plain stealth (upon which Hide in plain sight is based), there is an entry about being observed and making a bluff check to distract opponents so you can hide. You must be within a reasonable distance (say...10feet) of cover or concealment to do this. Also, it says in the core rulebook that not all concealment is effective. For example, a character using shadows as concealment for his stealth ability is not effective against creatures with Darkvision. So, are you saying that a Shadowdancer within 10 feet of a shadow does not actually use the shadow as concealment? It seems to me that the opening statement of Hide in Plain sight where it says "use stealth..." is misleading since stealth requires either cover or concealment. It sounds more like invisibility to me if this is the case.