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A lot of the problems with the class could be solved with the right Wild Talents. Here is my attempt at them:
Element Air, Water, Earth or Fire; Type Su; Level 4; Burn 0
Prerequisites kineticist level 1st
You gain resistance 5 against eletricity, acid, fire or cold, matching your element. This increases to resistance 10 at tenth level, resistance 20 at 15th level and immunity to that elementat 20th. If you learn to use another element you can take this talent again to gain the associatd resistance.
Additionaly if you have fire resistance you are immune to enviromental heat effects. If ou have cold resistance you are immune to enviromental cold effects. If you have acid resistance you are immune to nonlethal damage from hustling and forcedmarch and are immune to starvation and thirst as long as you are in solid ground. If you have eletric resistance you are immune to suffocation as long as you're not completely submerged, and can hold your breath for one minute per point of constitution.
Defeating Elemental Resistance:
Element Fire; Type Su; Level 6; Burn see text
Prerequisites primary element is fire, expanded element (fire)
You can use fire so hot it disintegrates matter. When you hit with a fire blast you can, as an swift action, accept one point of burn and instead of dealing damage reduce the targets fire resistance by 10, to a minimun of zero. Alternatively you can accept 2 burn to transform fire immunity in fire resistance 40 or to give fire vulnerability to a target that doesn't have fire resitance. This effects last for a number of rounds equal to your con modifier plus the burn points you are suffering. This effects stack.
Yeah, if you're willing to spend six rounds and take 8 burn you can make a fire elemental be weak against fire. That is not a bug, it's a feature.
Air could have a sound blast and some measure of sound control.
Fire could be used to make fire with less heat and more light or different types of light, or to make flashes to dazzle or blind:
Earth could have create pit as a sp; the ability to make earthquakes or something like this:
Tell this to your players:
Authorities in fantasy universes need adventurers. Because, as a rule, they are straight up better than regular soldiers.
When an orc band attacks a village, if the king doesn't send the army the village dies, because an orc band will destroy a villages police/militia. So if adventurers appear and say "You seem to have a orc/drow/hobgoblin problem. We are adventurers that will take care of it for you for X amount of cash!" the mayor is likely to sing allellujah and pay extra. Better than being killed together with his village.
When a dragon shows on the country side, armies die. Ten thousand arrows from ten thousand soldiers tickle Smaug. The very few people with enough power to take on a dragon usually have better stuff to do, are to afraid of trying to do it alone, or just don't care about your kingdom. So when a roaming bunch of adventurers shows up wanting to fght your dragon or, better yet, already famous for killing dragons, you promise them as much money as they want. If they die you don't lose anything. If they win, you would have to be a special kind of stupid to refuse paying or send assassins against people that can kill dragons.
And if they are calling adventurers for something, like in published material, it is usually something where normal resources have already failed, so they are calling in the specialists. And it doesn't matter what sort of problem you think you have, you pay the specialist rates. If you call the best law firm available for a shut case, you still pay the price for the best law firm. If you hire a five star chef for a night and ask him to make a grilled cheese, you still pay the cost of five star chef. If you hire a team of high risk mercenaries to kill dire rats, you still pay the cost of a team of high risk mercenaries.
And any politician that tries to make disappear the group of well trained, well equiped and well prepared adventurers that just did something his usual teams of assassins and soldiers couldn't, well... He deserves what happens when said group of well trained, well equiped and well prepared adventurers comes after his head.
Treating adventurers as vigilantes or outlaws only gets you outlaws that can break castle walls, kill armies, control the elements, summon the forces of hell, turn nobles into tadpoles, raise armies of the dead and other really unpleasant things. Better pay them to do 'adventuring' where the good and neutral ones can kill the more evil ones, than turn them all against you. Some long forgotten king must have realized that it's best to divide and conquer, than to unite and lose.
You destroy him. Chunky salsa flies everywhere. For a moment you see a translucent form of him and then it too is hit by the afterimage of your strike. An observing cleric or wizard can tell you that not only you killed him but somehow managed to kill his soul. For a quick moment you see Pharasma standing by your side looking flabbergasted, her mouth hanging open and her arms waving in a 'what the hell' motion. The she turns at you with a scowl and a glare and dissappears. Alternatively you see Zon-Khuton looking impressed. He turns and offers two thumbs up and what passes for a smile and then dissapears. If you are quick enough to raise an empty hand before he dissapears, he gives you a high five and then dissapears.
Le Petite Mort wrote:
Okay, maybe the example I gave was more distracting than clarifying. To rephrase my question more explicitly, are characters railroaded into believing everything said to them at face value if they fail a given Sense Motive check?
Le Petite Mort wrote:
Gullible people are not aware that they're gullible. Gullible people in fact believe themselves to be really good at detecting lies. It's what makes them gullible.In your example Thoggs response could be "Ha knew you wren't half devil, that ain't even a thing. Who would have sex with devils anyway?"
You can use command words to turn brilliant energy (or any other weapon ability) on and off. So your hands work normally when you want but when combat begins you can say "This hand of mine glows with an awesome power! Its burning grip tells me to defeat you! SHINING FINGER!"
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Bah, his story is boring, cliche, and full of plot holes. What isn't purple prose is succint to the point of confusion. His characters are flat and uninteresting, his descriptions are meandering and lifeless and his action scenes are laughable and his attempt at moralization is forced, simplistic and confusing. His story is not cool.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I might have come out wrong. I just wanted to point out that he can do it with normal human abilities, imagine what someone who had PC stats could do with it. Not arguing with him,more using him as an example.Heck, if you can consider a hard rubber ball filled with water as a water ballon, a barbarian with more arms strenght than the best baseball players could probably throw it with enough strenght to cave a persons skull or rib cage. A hard rubber ball, likea dodge ball, filled with water, would probably hit like it was mde of steel and weight way less. Throwing water ballons could be a viable style.
Off the top of my head, there was a character in Negima that fought with his hands in his pockets, 'unsheating' his hand, punching, and 'sheating' it again so quick the enemy doesn't even how he got hit. Another idea would be long kimono style sleeves. Or maybe a fighting style where you hold yourself at military rest or at ease stance, with your hands behind your back.
Chengar Qordath wrote:
Here's a nifty "spells are for the weak" blodrager build: Untouchable Primalist Bloodrager with the Arcane bloodline, trade Arcane Bloodage at fourth for Superstition and Witch Hunter, Trade Caster Scourge at twelve for Spellsunder and Eater of Magic. Use your bonus feat for Disruptive, Improved Initiatie, Iron Will, Spellbreaker and Combat Reflexes, in whichever order you want. Watch as anything with casting cries as your stupid high saves and spell resistance and ability to reroll failed saves make you as close as immune to magic as the game allows, while breaking enemy spells and having extra damage against casters and being always hasted. Might change Eater of Magic for Ghost Rager if you consider the bonus to touch AC is better than rerolling saves or if you can get rerolls from somewhere else.
Like PFS has any semblance with RAW, RAI or balanced...
My knee jerk reaction is why would anyone play a barbarian instead of an untouchable primalist bloodrager, except maybe for the Invulnerable Rager archetype. You lose Trap Sense for Spell Resistance, and trade ten rage powers for ten rage powers +the first level bloodline power +five feats. They've Rogued the Barbarian. Seriously.
The feat broke him so hard, it broke his blue screen. That there is some weapons grade brain breaker.
K177Y C47 wrote:
I think the slayer caught him mid sentence.That's what you get for divulging his secr
Ignore the combobreakers!
Wow! You got everything so wrong, I'm not sure you even read the Core rulebook.
Ok, Wizard and Sorcerer can suck at early levels if you completely suck at selecting spells, but that is not fault of the class or GM it's yours for being dumb. Sleep and Color Spray and whatever you want for flavor. Done.
Rogue can't kill anything in a sinlge attack after level 3, maybe 4, except some very optimized builds.
You know who can be just as good as the rogue at freeing the group from a jail cell? The Ranger. Forget favored enemy, favored terain: urban makes you better at being stealthy than the rogue could ever hope to be. And even without favored enemy they still have a wolf to do some extra damage, get some feats earlier than the fighter, and has some really nice spells (lead blades, longstrider, etc.)
Hardly anyithng can kill a paladin. Fullstop. Not just evil, neutral, lawful, chaotic and even good would have a hard time killing this guy. Also even when not fighting evil he has divine bnd to make his weapon better than what the fighter could buy, and he has spells. Anyone that thinks a fighter is the best in that door scenrio of yours has never seem a pally with Deadly Juggernaut, Weapon of Awe and Righteous Vigor going.
Wizards are going to fear charging quivering palms as soon as monks learn to fly. Quivering Palm and Stunning Fist are worthless against melee enemies because the save is just too low. Thta SR is actually a bad class feature since it stops the monk from receiving beneficial buffs. The monk also has abilities like slow fall (worse than a first level spell) and Tongue of the Sun and Moon (worse than a second level spell). He does have some good archetypes tough.
Fighters are very good at DPR noone against that. But they're not so good that a paladin, barbarian or ranger, even with all their resources spent, couldn't do the exact same thing. And if there is a single goblin shaman in that endless horde, the fighter would be the worst to have in that place, since he has the worst chance of resisting mindcontrol.
Druids are not as good at spells as a wizard but that is still better than not being a level 9 spellcaster. Also don't forget the animal companion. You know who else can stand in a doorway and kill thousands of goblins? A buffed up tiger.
Bard sucks at everything except singing? In 3.5 maybe, but not in PF anymore. PF bard outrogues the rogue. He is as good at skills and he has spells to back it up. The rogue has a little more damage but not enough to kill enemies before they sound an alarm, unless the enemies are very low level, in which case even the wizard could probably kill then in a single round.
Barbarians only run out of rage in the early levels. At high levels he has more rage rounds than he knows what to do with. And even without rage the barbarian is only a little worse at DPR than the fighter. Not a significant enough difference to really make the fighter shine.
I believe the super serum gave him the ability to telekinetically control round mettalic objects. I've noticed how in some comics/cartoons he can do shield stunts with trashcan lids and hubcaps when someone takes his shield away.
Any crit that can do that to a raging barbarian would have done worse to a fighter. Remember that the barbarian has more HP than the fighter, something between 4 (1st level) to at least 120 (at 20 th level). A fighter in the same position would've died before the healer could even launch his spell.The barbarians weakness is that he lasts a round more than the fighter would before dying. I'm okay with that.
They always said I had an explosive temperament. Toss a bomb
Telessar Talimah wrote:
Paladin. Bottom damage dealer. Against demons.Flagged for trolling.
Except being 'consistent' and 'able to go all day long' is worth crap in a team game. After the casters have spent their spells and the barbarian and bard spend their rounds, and the monk spent their ki, and the pally is out of lay on hands/smites, the fighter and the rogue have three options:1- Keep going alone and die against any level appropriate encounter.
2- Drag the party with them so they can all die while the fighter uses the enemy distraction to kill the enemies and feel good about his bad carrer choice at the cost of everybody else.
3- Rest with the team.
Well there is a fourth... Go alone and face ridiculously weak opponents and be coddled by the DM so the player can feel special.
And it's been five times you failed to show what else the fighter can do. Six now.
Simple question, what do you see as the Fighter's niche that the Ranger is unable to imitate?
Being super extra boring, having no base flavor, no out of combat utility, not having any important, exciting or really useful class features, being incapable of solving problems without resorting to violence, having to spend all their money and regular feats to ape what other classes get for free.Am I missing any thing?
Ah yes, doing a little more DPR than an unbuffed, no favored enemy ranger, but not so much more as to really matter.
Apparently, Anzyr won the thread. Right there. [/thread]
...Hi, you must be new to these forums and/or the PF system! Here's a secret: Monks suck, Rogues are near useless, Fighters can't have nice things. Every time a good change happens to one of these classes it gets nerfhammered so hard it breaks the feat standing next to it.
At one point a few hundred posts back, they said they weren't comparing to fighter or rogue.
And that is a good thing. You should balance against the barbarian and the paladin, against the bard, the inquisitor and the alchemist. You want to compare to the well designed classes, not with the bottom of the pile.If Rogue is your measure stick you end up with the same problem the Investigator got in the playtest, and go from 'good class' to 'will never be able to meaningfully contribute in combat'.
The Crusader wrote:
The problem you seem to have is that you think alignment is based on actions. It's not, it's about motives. It's not what you do, but why you do it.Evil can do good actions if they want, usually as cover so people don't get suspicious, or to cut down an evil rival.
Good can do some evil stuff like killing enemies usually when they hae no other options or the options have much worse consequnces. (paladins are another matter, but theyre supposed to be extreme in their alingnment)
Lawful can break laws that go against their personal code.
Chaotic can follow laws, when they make sense to him or when he elieves he will be punished for breaking them.
Chaotic societies usually have laws like:
All examples from actual societies. See? General guidelines, instead of rigid systems.
You're the one moving the golaposts, dude. He explicitly said old school deities referring to the mithological deities, i.e. Zeus, Loki, Shiva, etc. You're the one ho brought Iomedae in to change the goalposts.
And why do YOU presume the silent masses are okay with the nerf? They might agree with 'nerf was needed but not that much' or 'it was balanced'. I find it supremely arrogant of any side to just assume that the silent majority is on their side. What, you have some special superpower to know that without need of them saying anything? Are you Professor X?A small minority, very few people, liked the nerf. The large majority of people willing to share their thoughts on the subject agree, it was way too much of an overnerf.
Broken Zenith wrote:
Is each level of sneak attack worth an extra feat?:
No. As Unearthed Arcana shows, 9d6 sneak attack is worth only three feats. Furthermore, your math is wrong in two ways. Your "Smack Attack" does an average of 1.75 damage where Weapon Specialization does +2 damage all the time. weapon Specialization is straight up better. When you say: "Smack Attack deals an average of .75 more damage than Weapon Specialization." you mean .25 less. Also even if it were a straight equivalent to one feat, The fighter gains 11 bonus feats to the rogues 10 dice of sneak attack. Fighter wins, by eight feats.
Broken Zenith wrote:
Is a point of BAB and 4 health worth 24 skill points?:
Disingeuous question. A more fair question would be: Are 5BAB and 20 HP worth 120 skill points? And you are forgetting to add a couple of things to either side, the rogues better skill list on one side, and the extra iterative attack gained by BAB and the fighter being able to get several good feats earlier than the rogue, those with BAB prerequisites. The answer? The BAB and its attendand extra attack are worth more than the 120 skill points. Take all of the skills usable in combat, and none of them is worth 5 BAB, much less an extra attack. The extra HP and and the early feats are just icing on the cake.
Broken Zenith wrote:
Are the Rogue's miscellaneous features equal to the Fighter's miscellaneous features?:
Your tie is broken by the features you forgot to mention: Master Strike (only works once a day against a single target, has acrappy DC and goes against Fort which is th best save of anyone on melee against the rogue) versus Armor Mastery and Weapon Mastery (DR 5/- and autto confirm criticals and higher damage multiplier and immune to disarm) The tie breaks heavily on the fighter side.
The fighter not only wins, he trounces the rogue like a noob and then teabags the corpse. All you've managed to prove is that the rogue deserves a tier 5 to be created just for him.
Cure Light Wounds. With instant and repeatable cure miracles I would become a saint. Get the church to give me a confortable life style and just heal people like six hours a day. Make some trips around the world, meet world leaders, shame them into doing whatever I guess is the right thing to do. Doesn't cure diseases, sadly, but at will 1d8+1 is enough to full heal any injury.
Here's a couple of ideas for feats:
And this here? Telling someone else how they should roleplay their own characters is just as bad as the guy that tells people to always use the same build because it has the best DPR or that you should change your build so it's more min-maxed.Thespians can suck the fun out of a game just as much as munchkins.
Yeah, down with the thespian tyranny!
As a self confessed murderhobo, let me tell you, your definition is wrong. Murderhoboing is going around city to city, dungeon to dungeon, murdering monsters and taking loot. Nothing more, nothing less. The barbarian does it to test himself against monster, the paladin because his god tld him to, the wizard in the advance of magic, the rogue n search of riches, the bard to become famous. Sometimes you're in a quest to save the world, sometimes you do it because killing monsters is fun.What you describe is a roleplayers first attempt at being an evil party, before someone keys them in on the fact that you can do evil masterminds or sympathetic villains.
There are already like five classes/archetypes that invalidate the rogue, two more are just nails on the coffin. And the monk never got validated on the first place, so it can't even be invalidated.
In a game like that, in my experience, the players knowing beforehand allows them to reach an agreement. The merchant player optimizes for party face, allowing the rest of the group to more freely optimize for combat. Any attempt of the DM to punish me for my 7 cha and 7 int was directed back to the merchant. "Why you talking to me, man? I be the bodyguard, you be wanting tha talk with de bossman." Also, merchants can be very inspiring "come on guys kill them quick and you get bonus pay" (bard using oratory for his performances), alternatively the merchant may know a thing or three about locks and traps, either because of a shady past, or because he needs to use them on his own shop (rogue built for trapfinding and skill monkeying).A bulid optimized for skills is still an optimized build.