|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
The way I did I made it an armor bonus and a separate insight bonus totouch ac. Armor bonus doesn't stack you only get the best one, and you still have the line in weapon and armor proficiencies about losing the ac bonus and fast movement if he uses armor. Also armor bonus doesn't enter into touch AC so I think it's better to have a separate bonus than make a distinction for the monk.
About the styles, my group cancelled play today so I have lots of RPG energy to spend on homebrewing stuff. Glad you liked.
Quivering palm actally works the same way. Even in the old monk version you could activate it in the same round.
Can someone contact Ashiel and see if he could convert this ability to get psionic powers for a psionic archetype. I would love to have a psionic version of this monk.
Final Verdict: 4/5.
Bonus feats, Evasion, Still Mind, Purity of Body and Diamond Body are all good. I love the change to Fast movement.
Ki pool has some nice changes, I like you put Tongue of Sun and Moon here where it belongs, but it has a couple of weird things: At 10th level the monks unarmeddamageis considered lawful, but the monk can be chaotic. That is weird. Make it so at tenth level he bypasses any alignment based DR. Much more elegant and simple. Tiyng a pseudo lurry of blows to Ki points is bad. The monk would run dry of ki attacking and never using it for the other stuff. If you plan on giving Flurry of Blows back, with my idea or some other, just take the ki using option off, it would be redundant.
High Jump, Feather Step and Improved Feather Step are all very nice, although I would like some wording on improved to the effect of using acrobacy checks to run jumping from rooftop to rooftop; to walk, and even stand, on peoples heads without hurting them; or to run on the top of tree branches, clotheslines and other materials that should hold them just as well as water.
I really like Debilitating Strike. Giving a Dirty Trick rider to unarmed damage is pretty cool conceptually (go for the leg) and the bonus to CMB for the damage is pretty helpfull.
Wholeness of Body is pretty good and flavorfull. I love your version of Abundant Step and Diamond Soul. I love that the best way to hit a monk with a spell is by tricking him into lowering his SR and failing his save on purpose.
Timeless Body, Boundless Body, Empty Body and Perect Self are all good.
Quivering Palm is missing the lines about eing able to setup a quivering palm and only making the enemie die hours or days later. Why/ I thought that was pretty cool and flavorful, myself. You could even use it a few rounds later so the enemy can walk around before dieing, like in Kill Bill.
Style of soft force: This style focuses on grapples, throws and on using an opponents strenght against him. At second level as part of a full-attack action, the monk can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry.
An idea would be to have a few archetypes that enhance certain styles. The tetori and flowing monk would use and enhance the soft force style, while other archetype enhances the open palm style by trading Fast movement and Feather Step for increased accuracy or early Debilitating Strikes or some ability to keep enemies from moving away, or getting past them, maybe free Combat reflexes. Another archetype could enhance Cclosed fist style by giving some bonus for every 10 feet you move or if you're using Feather Step, or maybe gie the improved version of Stnning fist from the normal monk or allowing Perfect strike to work with unarmed focused blow and giving an improvement like the zen archer does.
If you like this style idea and plan to use them just give me the word and I'll see hat I can do on those four archetypes.
Style of the closed fist: This style focuses on using momentum to make powerful single attacks. Starting at 2nd level, a monk can make a foused blow as a standard action. When doing so, a monk gains the benefits of the Vital Strike feat when attacking with unarmed strikes, weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the “monk” special feature. He can make a Focused blow at the end of a charge or as part of a Spring Attack. The monk is treated as having the Vital Strike feat for the purpose of feat prerequisites.
Continue next post.
Here is an idea for open palms and closed fists:
Fighting style: (Ex) At second level the monk can choose one of three fighting styles. Once made this choice is permanent.
Continue next post.
Unarmed Strike I think is good. The +6 damage is less than you would get from increasing the unarmed damage die like the normal monk, but the +6 attack makes up for not being able to permanently enhance their unarmed strikes like magic weapons. Here is an idea: A more mistyc archetype culd trade this bonus to attack and damage for the ability to spend money and gain magical ehacements to his body like a magic weapon.
Is the link on the first page the current one? It doesn't have flurry of blows or increased unarmed damage die. Although, Unarmed strike does give a good damage bonus.
"Armored in Life" says:
Armored in Life (Ex): A Monk has a special armor bonus to AC whenever he is not using armor or shields that he is not proficient in. This armor bonus has a value of +4 at first level, and this bonus increases by 1 for every 4 levels the monk possess. He also gains the same amount as an insight bonus against touch attacks. If the Monk wears an item that grants enhancement bonuses to armor or special armor qualities, such as enchanted clothing or armor bracers, he gains the enhancement bonus to AC and the armor special qualities even if he normally wouldn't.
Now he can benefit from bracers of armor and enchanted clothing but light armor does nothing, even if he gains proficiency somehow.
Is it just me or is Shin acting more and more like a cartoon? I mean like when Family Guy or South Park want to be very offensive by making a super racist african american guy that sees everything as racism, kind of cartoon.
Apparently, Anzyr won the thread. Right there. [/thread]
And in what kind of bizarro dimension do you live where you can imagine a Hollywood blockbluster being able to present a mixed family without making a big mess about it and wasting a third of a movie on a subplot to explain a change that isn't even important or necessary to the story? Is the sky orange over there? Is the moon made of actual cheese? Whch kind? How are you even acessing the internet of a different dimension?
You're looking for bards and cavaliers. Bards make everyone around them better at everything, and cavaliers can lend their teamwork feat to allies so everybody doesn't need to buy the same feats. All casters can do a good job of buffing their meatshield friends, but the martials don't have many good options for protecting their friends.
...Hi, you must be new to these forums and/or the PF system! Here's a secret: Monks suck, Rogues are near useless, Fighters can't have nice things. Every time a good change happens to one of these classes it gets nerfhammered so hard it breaks the feat standing next to it.
At one point a few hundred posts back, they said they weren't comparing to fighter or rogue.
And that is a good thing. You should balance against the barbarian and the paladin, against the bard, the inquisitor and the alchemist. You want to compare to the well designed classes, not with the bottom of the pile.If Rogue is your measure stick you end up with the same problem the Investigator got in the playtest, and go from 'good class' to 'will never be able to meaningfully contribute in combat'.
Pretty common is an understatement. There are loads of threads like these on the homebrew/suggestions forum (where this should be by the way) and even more on General Discussion. Well executed is harder. Problem is everybody has their own idea of how much and what exactly to give each class. Closest thing to consensus is that 7th level plus should already be legendary/wuxia/mythologic and 15th plus should be mythic/epic. My opinion? Casters are making demipanes and fulfilling wishes sofighters should be able to leap tall buildings and break castle walls, at the very least.Also, something else most people eventually notice is that the full BAB classes aren't the only ones that the need the boost. Monks and Rogues can do with some love too.
Review on ideas tomorrow when I'm not conked out with imnsonia. Do you want ideas too or just reviews?
The Crusader wrote:
The problem you seem to have is that you think alignment is based on actions. It's not, it's about motives. It's not what you do, but why you do it.Evil can do good actions if they want, usually as cover so people don't get suspicious, or to cut down an evil rival.
Good can do some evil stuff like killing enemies usually when they hae no other options or the options have much worse consequnces. (paladins are another matter, but theyre supposed to be extreme in their alingnment)
Lawful can break laws that go against their personal code.
Chaotic can follow laws, when they make sense to him or when he elieves he will be punished for breaking them.
Chaotic societies usually have laws like:
All examples from actual societies. See? General guidelines, instead of rigid systems.
The 'system masters', as you say, have already responded. The answer is nothing. There is nothng a psion can do that a wizard can't out do. Psionics is much more balanced than vancian casting.You keep arguing as if you had system mastery and could prove psionics is OP, when you admit you don't have the mastery and can't think of ways it's OP, while the people that do have the mastery are telling you it's not OP...
We fell for it, didn't we? It's a troll. Stop feeding it people. Stop arguing with the troll.
If you don't like playing a support character, why would you play a fighter?
Prince of Knives wrote:
Maybe use a Lesser Planar Ally? Can a Hound Archon or Lantern Archon cast a scroll or use a wand?You know you're going to die, so call a planar ally with the instruction of in three days casting the scroll you've already crafted to bring you back.
If necessary we can bump Jesus to level 11 so he can cast Planar Ally and call a Couatl with it's +18 in UMD.
No equipment at all, naked to their birthday suit, makes the fighter more hosed than the wizard. The fighter AC is only 10+dex mod and unless he was already focused on unarmed strike his attack and damage all plummet down. The wizard still has whatever spells he prepared in the morning and can now do more damage with his blast spells and has better AC than the fighter simply by virtue of Mage Armor. This is another point to demonstrate that in corner situations the wizard is better than the fighter.
You're the one moving the golaposts, dude. He explicitly said old school deities referring to the mithological deities, i.e. Zeus, Loki, Shiva, etc. You're the one ho brought Iomedae in to change the goalposts.
I love how the fighter has a lot more money for hirelings than the wizard because buying spells is just SO expensive. I mean it's not like the fighter has to buy magic armor and at least one magic weapon and either of those is like 3 or 4 times more expensive than having all the spells from corebook.
gustavo iglesias wrote:
You want to tick off religious people? Build a ninth level cleric and show them that it can do every single one of Jesus miracles. And then some more. In a span of a couple of minutes. And all again the next day.
A 9th level cleric is better at miracles than Jesus. And people want Aragorn to be level 20th...
Kirth Gersen wrote:
That is an idea I've toyed with off and on again for sometime but never made into acual rules. I blame my lazyness.The idea is that instead of getting money and valuables for every encounter the PCs get 'wealth' which can be either 'treasure' or 'mojo' (I dodn't have a good word for it, your mojo idea is the best so far), depending on what the encounter is and what the player wants.
Treasure is actual money and goods, and can be used to buy itens in shops, pay for costs of living, hire helpers and craft stuff.
That way when you kill a bandit and take his stuff, you gain treasure, when you kill a wandering pack of direwolfs, instead of finding a bag of coins in their stomachs you gain mojo. When the group does a contract or something the DM can decrase the money offered and then give some mojo for the difference. It allows one player to get most of his Wealth by Level as treasure and end up richer than a small nation and covered in magic itens, while another has an ancient weapon that grows in power together with himself and no other itens, it's all his internal badassery.
Now if only I could get this mess as rules text...
Delay evasion to either third or fifth level, give no trace and it's increases one level later so you don't get them at the same time as trap sense, allow the rogue to select ninja tricks instead of talents, allow Ki to be based on either int or cha chosen when you gain the ability, allow it to be called guile or panache for player that don't want a 'mystical' or 'eastern' feel.
When non core is allowed you have improvements for the bard and classes like the inquisitor and the alchemist while the rogue get's crappier and crappier talents. If that were the case I would reccomend changing and improving some of the crappier rogue talents. And if you have the advanced class guide playtest, maybe allow the investigator talents Item Lore, Percetive Tracking and Effortless Aid (using Ki instead of Inspiration) and the slayer talents Foil Scrutiny and Slowing Strike.
Edit: Even on a low magic itens/ no magic mart campaign, he is not going to be mechanically superior to anyone, except the monk, but you need at least one archetype and several feats from splatbooks to make a mechanically sound monk anyway. The only class that is relly going to feel bad for not getting stuff outside core is the barbarian, but that only means he is as good as a fighter instead of being awesomesauce.
1 This is in the wrong forum. This should be in the homebrew/suggestions forum.
Better question, how can anyone be sure about which side the majority supports? Claiming to have the tacit support of the silent majority is disingenuous. It's impossible to know what a silent portion of the group supports. It is, after all, silent.
OTOH84% of people who responded thnk the nerf was unnecessary or too much.
16% of people who responded think the feat is now balanced.
So yeah, majority. Actually there are three separate distinct answers. Conflating the middle one with any of the others causes a bias towards one opinion. Best way to see it would be:
53% think it was fine
Again majority to a certain opinion but not as pronounced.
And why do YOU presume the silent masses are okay with the nerf? They might agree with 'nerf was needed but not that much' or 'it was balanced'. I find it supremely arrogant of any side to just assume that the silent majority is on their side. What, you have some special superpower to know that without need of them saying anything? Are you Professor X?A small minority, very few people, liked the nerf. The large majority of people willing to share their thoughts on the subject agree, it was way too much of an overnerf.
People have already broached the combat stuff, but I here's something noone seems to have mentioned:
Anything that can be done by a RWBY character (except Weiss she's the only caster like one) should be something that a martial can accomplish by level 15 at the absolute latest. After the martial classes can do that we can work on nerfing some of the more overpowered spells and maybe see about splitting up the casters into classes more like the Beguiler/Dread Necromancer (but not the Warmage... that one needs work).
What's RWBY? I think I should know what it is, but the acronym is tripping me.
Late, but here's an idea:
If the hardcore fans of the original material expected the same thing, why wouldn't they just use the original material?
Why, yes, people should have just stuck with 3.5. No sense in moving to Pathfinder at all. Try to improve on what we're already fans, who ever heard of such a thing? :)
Aye. Based on the way OP made his comparison model, the wizard gets a point for Spells being better than Flurry of Blows and Unarmed Strike (the monks main schtick) School Powers lose to the rest of the monks miscellaneous abilities, and monk gets five points for better BAB, better saves, better skillpoints, better HD and having more bonus feats. 7 to 1 in favor of the monk.Clearly wizards are underpowered and monks are tier one.
Broken Zenith wrote:
Is each level of sneak attack worth an extra feat?:
No. As Unearthed Arcana shows, 9d6 sneak attack is worth only three feats. Furthermore, your math is wrong in two ways. Your "Smack Attack" does an average of 1.75 damage where Weapon Specialization does +2 damage all the time. weapon Specialization is straight up better. When you say: "Smack Attack deals an average of .75 more damage than Weapon Specialization." you mean .25 less. Also even if it were a straight equivalent to one feat, The fighter gains 11 bonus feats to the rogues 10 dice of sneak attack. Fighter wins, by eight feats.
Broken Zenith wrote:
Is a point of BAB and 4 health worth 24 skill points?:
Disingeuous question. A more fair question would be: Are 5BAB and 20 HP worth 120 skill points? And you are forgetting to add a couple of things to either side, the rogues better skill list on one side, and the extra iterative attack gained by BAB and the fighter being able to get several good feats earlier than the rogue, those with BAB prerequisites. The answer? The BAB and its attendand extra attack are worth more than the 120 skill points. Take all of the skills usable in combat, and none of them is worth 5 BAB, much less an extra attack. The extra HP and and the early feats are just icing on the cake.
Broken Zenith wrote:
Are the Rogue's miscellaneous features equal to the Fighter's miscellaneous features?:
Your tie is broken by the features you forgot to mention: Master Strike (only works once a day against a single target, has acrappy DC and goes against Fort which is th best save of anyone on melee against the rogue) versus Armor Mastery and Weapon Mastery (DR 5/- and autto confirm criticals and higher damage multiplier and immune to disarm) The tie breaks heavily on the fighter side.
The fighter not only wins, he trounces the rogue like a noob and then teabags the corpse. All you've managed to prove is that the rogue deserves a tier 5 to be created just for him.
Cure Light Wounds. With instant and repeatable cure miracles I would become a saint. Get the church to give me a confortable life style and just heal people like six hours a day. Make some trips around the world, meet world leaders, shame them into doing whatever I guess is the right thing to do. Doesn't cure diseases, sadly, but at will 1d8+1 is enough to full heal any injury.
Ok here's what I've got:
01 Feat Fey Foundling; Detect Evil; Smite Evil 1/day
The Palabarian can use a fullplate, losing only his fast movement, for weapon I think a greatsword.
That is all without any magic items. And I forgot to account for the Maenad Outburst.
If you allow for 3pp, we can use the maenad race to make a lawful barbarian.
I'm thinking Oath of Vengeance Paladin 3/ Invulnerable Rager Barbarian 12/Oath of Vengeange Paladin5
I'll do a breakdown on feats and Rage Powers when I wake up tomorrow.
Here's a couple of ideas for feats:
Let's see if I can reconstruct yesterdays post...I think for the base veilshifting class, as you called it, it would be better withou the golem/jinni companion. Maybe save that idea for an archetype or maybe a possible fourth class.
Based on Drejks post that also got deleted, Vizier does sound strange for ths class. I kind of expect a Vizier to be able to advise and/or manipulate people, with a focus in charisma and some class abilities geared for interaction. I suggest changing Vizier for some other name, somehing more spiritual maybe, and saving Vizier for that possible fourth class, making it a cross between party face and poor mans summoner.
Also, I'd like to point out that Summoner is consiered, deservedly or not, to be overpowered and even broken, and it's usually banned by DMs. A poor mans Summoner might be more accepted than the actual Summoner. I'm in favor of it.
I thought there was something weird with the feats so I went and opened up my copy of Magic of Incarnum to compare. And most of the feats are the same with just name changes. Is that something you can actually do and still publish it? Incarnum wasn't OGL so it makes me a little concerned, I want to see this project succeed.
Your problem is that a tenth level party would eat the hits? That is a stupid party. My DM would have the problem of one of the casters readying to cast a Wind Wall as soon as anyone shoots. Or if noone has that prepared, a readied Fireball in the middle of the guards can end that threath right quick.