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Nar'shinddah Sugimar

VM mercenario's page

1,414 posts (1,421 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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Little Red Goblin Games wrote:

sepik121 wrote:

I'm a little bummed because I don't think the architect class is gonna happen via the KS, but I'd still love to actually see that class. I loved playing dungeon defenders and I would be really interested to actually have a tower defense style character in game.

But that said, the update showcasing some of the art plus the open documents for review makes me really excited for this. I've pitched in already, and even upped the pledge to 25 bucks. Can't wait!

Well, we are REALLY close to goal (like $89 at the time of posting) so it is TOTALLY within the realm of possibility that we will hit the first stretch goal.

If we don't hit it, I personally love that class, so there is a very good chance that it will be released solo or as part of something else in the future.

Maybe the start of a Gonzo 3, or the LRGG take on a technology guide with technology based classes?

Ciaran Barnes wrote:
I was working on a speed-based class, that I called the dynamo. Its an unfinished project - one where I'm struggling to get the pictures in my head out onto the page. It can be difficult stretching a thin concept out to 20 levels. You're welcome to take a look and see if it gives you any ideas.

Don't remember if there ws a thread for this one, but here is some comments:

Celerity: Free action +1 bonus to all dice rolls that lasts for most of a fight? No. That is too much.
Unerring Action: Why spend a point for something that you can gain permanently with a feat? Give it a different bonus like miss chance or make it a dodge bonus against all attacks till the beginning of your next turn.
Swift Attack and Extra Action: This ones are really nice.
Dash: That is pretty bad. If movement is going to be your schtick, it should start as good as the barbarians +10 feet at level one and end better than the monks +60 at level 18. Also allowing someone to moving 55ft as a non action is at the same time to much and underwhelming. Maybe include an option on Celerity to spend a point and do a second 5ft step or do a 10ft and later 15ft step.
Flurry: Switch the damage bonus to 7th, attack bonuses are much better than damage bonus. Maybe up the attack bonus to 15th and at 11th he can forgo flurry and gain Rapid Attack from the Mobile Fighter.
Uncanny Abilities:
Deflect Arrows: Add that he can spend celerity points to deflect more projectiles in one round. Also give Snatch Arrows if he is higher than 10 level
The Recovery Line and Dodge Ray are awesome.
Pounce: Clarify if this works with Flurry. Probably shouldn't.
Uncanny Might and Uncanny Endurance don't make any thematic sense with the rest of the class. I can see why you would want to maintain that symmetry but they don't mesh with everything else.
Everything else is pretty good.

Capt Darling wrote:

I would never have made dex to damage a thing. I would have given the class abillities that could do other things that is assosiatet to dex and speed like evade, riposte, accuracy and stuff like that. Allowing dex to be used as str is just lazy design. IMOP.

Not allowing a melee class to do any damage is terrible design, forcing a class about speed and dexterity to have str 16 and dex 12 to function is even worse. Dex to damage should be at least a talent you can take at second level.

Dex to damage definetly. At level one.
Increases to base speed, starting at level one and ending up higher than the monk.
Give Run as a bonus feat early on, cause nobody is going to waste a feat on it.
Alluria Publishings Marauder, which has the same concept, has a list of bonus feats like Spring Attack and Lunge and gains bonus damage when using those feats. It's a little weird but works.
Better yet, you can use the mechanic from 3.5 Scout and give an attack and damage bonus whenever the character moves more than 10 feet in a round. If you use this don't give them pounce.
DO NOT make them immune to AoOs from movement. One of the best things a speedster could do for the party is run a lap around the battlefield and draw the AoOs so the others can move, cast or do other stuff without worrying about AoOs.
DO give them Mobility, Wind Stance, Lightining Stance and abilities that stack and improve upon them. Or maybe just the abilities and the players can get the feats if they want. Make so the class can draw AoOs and then laugh at their failure. If you give them talents a nice talent would be forcing the enemies to use their AoOs even if they know they can't hit or want to save them for the wizard who is casting. Maybe give it a Will save to make it balanced.
Another idea for an ability would be getting a bonus on some maneuvers if you move before them, like a +1 to CMB for every ten feet to Bullrush, Overrun, Drag and Trip. To represent add your momentum to a tackle or something like that. Maybe add Sunder with a talent. Maybe add the maneuver as a rider when you charge or Spring Attack
A bonus to initiative is not necessary, since it's a dex based clas but it can be flavorful. Maybe also an ability like the divination wizard so at high levels you always roll 20 on initiative checks. If this a Flash type of class he should be able to tie with a divination wizard.
What else... Good Ref save, Evasion either always on maybe only if you moved at least ten feet on the round before, or maybe you can spend an immediate action to take a five foot step and gain Evasion for a round.
Give it 4 or 6 skill points per level. This class seems set for being a scout and going ahead stealthted or checking for traps. Maybe some talent or archetype to add trapfinding and danger sense.
Maybe an ability to take more than one 5ft step a round or take 10ft step instead, maybe x/day or fueled by a point pool.

This is for a more or less mundane class, like the fighter or rogue. If it goes more supernatural like the barbarian or ranger we can give it some true speedster powers:
-Gain Fast Healin and later Regeneration for a few rounds a day, based on quick metabolism
-X/day use your Reflexes instead of Fort or Will, being so quick you dodge the spell, or having a quick metabolism eats the poison or disease.
-Gain the ability to run on walls and ceilings, and on top of water or other liquids, When doing a full-round movement, running, charging or withdrawing.
-Create a sonic blast as part of your movement, this blast has a ten feet radius and originates form any one square you pass during your movement. It deals 1d6 sonic damage +1d6 for five levels and deafens for one round. A Fort save halves the damage and negates the deaf condition.
-Leave a wind wall in the squares you've passed that lasts for one round.
-Spend a standard action after moving to gain the benefits of Haste, Blur or Mirror Image for a number of rounds equal to your dex modifier
-Run for a full-round to add a lot of damage and some riders to your next attack, stacks with the bonus damage if you charge or move before attacking in the next round. For that special round the world, speed of light, super punch Flash can sometimes do.

Fixing Dual Identity:

The vigilante has a vigilante identity and a social identity. At first level he chooses which one is the real one, that identity has his real alignment. He can pick any aligment for his other identity. Effects that detect or work based on aligment use the aligment of the identity he is using. If he is subjected to an effect that would alter his alignment it affects the aligment of his real identity. The vigilante only fulfills the alignment prerequisites for feats, classes, or worshipping a god if both identities fulfill that prerequisite. For example a vigilante can only multiclass with paladin if both his idetitie are LG, but he can multiclass as cleric of Iomedae if his vigilante identity is LN and is social persona is NG.
When the vigilante is in his vigilante identity, it does not count as a disguise, and any attempts to see trough it with Perception or Sense Motive automatically fail. The vigilante and social identities are treated as two separate creatures for the purposes of knowledge checks, diplomacy checks to gather information, and all divination spells, such as Legend Lore and Commune. Attempts to scry or otherwise locate one identity only work when the vigilante is in that identity, if he is in a different idenitty they fail as if he had succeed on his save roll.
The vigilante loses all bonuses from this ability against anyone that knows the connection of his two identities, such as if they see him change, are told by the vigilante or by someone with concrete proof and evidences, or see the vigilante use any vigilante identity talents while in his social identity.

There we go. Closes all the loopholes, is powerfull enough to be better than a normal disguise focused class, and allows you to decide if it's Bruce Wayne or Batman that is the mask.

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Would it be better if they got full six level casting as the base ability and the base abilities of the Avenger and Stalker were buffed to match, or would that be too powerfull?
What if they had 4th level casting like paladins and rangers, but modified so they start casting at first level instead of fourth?

The main problem remains the super long time needed for Dual Identity.
Maybe a talent that allows you to use the ability of your vigilante identity without your disguise, but people get a huge bonus to find out about your secret identity. Lesse:

Eschew Secrecy: You can spend a full round action changing your mentality from your social identity to your vigilante identity. In this mindset you can use the abilities of your vigilante identity even without the disguise. Anyone that sees you, including any enemies you fight with, get a sense motive check as a free action every round they see you against a DC of 10+half your level+your charisma modifier to connect your social identity with your vigilante identity.

There we go. Take a moment to make sure you really want to do this, and if you're sure it's worth the risk you can kick ass even as Bruce Wayne. The mooks probably have really low Sense Motive, but you should be worried, what if one of them rolls a twenty. But try this in front of a cop or worse the Joker and you secret is busted. Using, stelth, invisibility or smoke bombs would keep your identity secret, and is what Batman or Daredevil would try if they had to fight in civilian disguise.

Maybe have the main class be a transformation (quick change but most of your power is locked in your vigilante persona) and then have a Badass Normal archetype (trade a slower change for having access to most of your abilities even in your social identity). A Super humanoid archetype (Quick change, keeps most of his powers in social identity) could be possible but it would hae to trade in other stuff, like Many Guises, Loyal Aid and all the Appearance abilities.

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Maybe if everytime time you chose a talent, you could also choose a talent for your social persona. So at second level and every even level you get two talents, one social, one vigilante. Then you can have social talents like:
Bumbling Defense: You gain a +1 dodge bonus in your social identity. This bonus increase by +1 at 4th and every 4 levels after. At sixth level you gain Evasion. At 12 level you gain the Feat Deflect Arrows. Whenever an attack misses your AC, you successfully use your Evasion or use the Deflect Arrows feat while in your social identity you can make a Bluff check as a free action to convince onlookers that you escaped danger through dumb luck, sheer coincidence or other reason.
Accidental Attack: As a free action you can roll an opposed bluff check resisted by an opponents Sense Motive. If you win you can attack him and make it look like it was an accident. This attack can use wathever bonuses and abilities you would gain from your Vigilante Talents. If you fail the bluff check you cannot attack but can still take other actions as normal.
Hidden Casting: You can cast any spell you gain from your vigilante talents but only if you succeed in your checks to make a concealed casting. Prereq Concealed Casting.
Shine Through: You can let some of your vigilante facade into your face for a moment, gaining the intimidate bonus of your vigilante identity for a single check. You lose you disguise bonus and immunity to divinations from Dual Identity against the target of the intimidation check for a week.

Ravingdork wrote:
The only one I can think of is having 6th-level arcane and divine spellcasting, but that would eat up pretty much all of your talents in return.

Doesn't even work, the magic training talents have the Arcane Training I or Divine Training I as prereqs and those are base path abilities. So even if you divorce the talents from paths, you still can only get arcane magic if you take the warlock path and divine magic only if you take the zealot path.

Edit: Some nice combos:

Vital Punishment with Leave an Opening on a Stalker is a nice way to rack some damage on the first round but is not even close to unbalanced.

Expose Weakness with Favored Maneuver (Dirty Trick) on an Avenger makes Expose Weakness actually possible instead of a very shiny trap.

Armor Silence is kinda of a must for Stalkers. Avengers would like Up Close and Personal, just for the extra attack as swift action when they have to move.

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Arcanemuses wrote:
My only concern is the warlock specialization. Will it eclipse the magus class because it has a more powerful spell list?

Not at all, because the warlock vigilante has much, much less spells per day. He starts with one more spell per day over the magus, the magus catchs up at level 2, the magus is one spell ahead at 3rd level, the vigilante catches up at level 4 and then the magus is ahead at every level after.

This is a horrible idea.
First, the barbarian is already one of the best classes at dealing damage, he doesn't need any of this in any way.
Second you compare it to the monk, but the monk doesn't gain points except for a couple of archetypes, and even then it's not as easy as hitting an enemy.
Third, gaining a point everytime you hit someone and everytime they hit is just awfull from a game design stance. There is no balance possible.
Fourth, this in no way affects your proposed problem of "I enter rage. I smash people." It only makes it "I enter rage. I smash people. Harder."
Fifth the barbarian already has a serviceable pool of points in the rage rounds, no need to tack another one on top. Just create or improve some rage powers so you can spend a rage round and have a bonus out of combat. Like: "Raging Climber: Spend a rage round and gain a climb speed of 30ft for one minute." "Raging Swimmer: Spend a rage round and gain a swim speed of 30ft for one minute." Do the same with scent, darkvision and other utility abilities. Done, easy.

Purple Duck Games wrote:

Wouldn't the Carl's Prestige Archetypes and Warrior Prestige Archetypes also count? They are 20-level class reworkings of PRCs a full classes.

It's also lacking the Awalim, Brujo and Infinyte, and others like Sheriff, Shinobi and Timebender hould be changed from 4 Winds Games to Purple Duck Games. Is Path of Power II ever getting finished?

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Is this still being updated?

Northwinter Press has the Monster Trainer and the Journeyman

Dragon78 wrote:
So your saying you want holy, unholy, axiomatic, anarchic related blasts?

I think he means more the planes of Positive and Negative energy.

A kineticist linked to the plane of Positive Energy would be a biokineticist (vita is a latin root) and have a positive energy blast that heals people and harms undead. If chosen as both primary and secondary element gains a Holy blast that deals blunt damage and does extra damage against evil targets. Other powers would include controlling plants and animals, some degree of shapeshifting, healing, and some other holy powers.

A kineticist linked to the plane of Negative Energy would be a necrokineticist and have a negative energy blast. Other powers could include causing disease, generating pure entropy, and general necromancy abilities.

A kineticist linked with the Shadow Plane would be an umbrokinetic (the greek version is skiakinetic and it just doesn't work) and have a shadow blast that is touch and can deal blunt, piercing or cutting damage but can be disbelieved and only deal half damage. Powers would revolve around controlling shadows, stealth and illusions. Fire Kineticists got would get some light using powers to balance.

Finnaly a kineticist linked to the Astral plane would be a psychokinetic and have a mind blast or the ability to make and throw psychic weapons. He would have some telekinesis but more focused on fine motion and without access to lift large weights or flying. Other powers would include telepathy and teleport, some mental attacks, and some time related powers.

That should cover the whole D&D type cosmology, unless you start making kineticists based on Heaven, Hell and other Outer Planes, but that would be too much work. Maybe a single theokineticist with varying blasts and powers depending on which outer planes he connects...

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Little Red Goblin Games wrote:

Battle butler, overall, played just fine. It played uniquely- boosting it’s declared master’s AC, having it’s to hit/damage adjusted throughout the battles via his service meter, and he was a little bit of a crit monkey (like he should be). The one sticking point we really have is these things called “tricks of the trade” (still hate that name). Currently you get one every level and they are not SUPER useful. They are meant to be these little flavorful out of combat abilities that have a rare use in battle and a rare few could potentially can be used quite effectively in battle if you REALLY pushed yourself to do the right set up. The issue is 1 every level is a pain in the butt. We are probably switching it to a lump sum upfront (possibly something based on Int modifier) and maybe a few down the road (maybe via a feat?).

Whhy is it a pain the butt? Because he gains too many of them across his career and you'd need some fifty different ones, at least? Or because they are little abilities and gaining a small thing every level is not all that satisfiyng?

Maybe gain a bunch at first level and them a smaller bunch at other levels? 3+Int at first level and +3 at 4th and every 4 levels?
Hard to comment on names without knowing the names of other class abilities, but if you go with gaining multiple ablities at a time how about Household Management and individual abilities be Homemaking Tricks or Housekeeping Chores?

On Lashing Spinnerets, with 3 points of essence invested, I can throw the rope at a building 50 feet away and move a total of 100 feet movement, from one wall to another wall. Is that correct?
If it is correct, then a misteryal monk with Access Middle Chakra Slot (Wrist) and the Lashing Spinnerets veil can become Spiderman as early as 10th level. This is amazing.

Starbuck_II wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
From a tactical standpoint, Amplified Rage really says "here's a feat you can take that will keep you from charging effectively, lock you into using non-reach weapons, and make you a target of every AoE spell the casters can scrape up." For those kind of limitations, I'd want it to give me DR 20/kryptonite, not just another +2 to hit over normal rage.
Keep in mind of course that DR/Kryptonite is still DR and still vulnerable to that same AoE spell damage you were concerned about.
Superman's DR was actually DR/magic hilariously.

No, remember magic ignores all DR according to DR rules (Paizo later changed it so some magic is weakened by DR though). His DR doesn't have to be /magic.

"A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below."

Only weapons and natural attacks are supposed to be reduced.

It's DR/magic because magic weapons also hurt him.

Vagabond? post what you already have so we know what needs doing.

Puna'chong wrote:

Don't forget Tropicalia as a sub-sub-domain. Maybe a Blessing...

Ela e minha menina!

Go for the more broad approach and go for latino. That can include tropicalia, samba, pagode, tango, salsa, meregue and bossa nova.

Latino Domain

You have mastered several sexy dances and powerful rhythms. In addition you gain Bluff as a class skill.

Hip Shaking (Su): As a swift action your dancing movements grant you a +1 dodge bonus to AC for one round You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + your cleric level.

Aura of Lust (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of lust for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. All enemies in this aura take a -2 penalty to all will saves against enchantment spells and a -4 penalty on all Sense Motive and Perception checks.

Domain Spells: 1st—charm person, 2nd—hideous laughter, 3rd—suggestion, 4th—charm monster, 5th—dominate person, 6th—symbol of persuasion, 7th—waves of ecstasy, 8th—irresistible dance, 9th—dominate monster.

Lucky Salamander wrote:

I have an idea...

Dubstep Domain

Put some dub in your step! You treat climb as a class skill.

Dub(Su): As a full round action, twice per day, you can make a melee touch attack, when hit, whenever the victim speaks you treat the language as common as to understand it.

Rock Hard Tune(Su): At 8th level, all allies within 20 feet of you have a +2 bonus to attack rolls. You also have DR/5 adamantite.

Domain Spells:

1st- Alarm 2nd- Chill Metal 3rd- Blood Biography 4th- Moonstruck 5th- lesser Planar Binding 6th- Stone to Flesh 7th- Delayed Fireball blast 8th- Polar Ray 9th- Twin Form.

This has nearly nothing to do with dubstep. And again would be easier to do a more broad Eletronic Domain. (music created by androids/constructs in-universe?)

Kalindlara wrote:
I'm surprised that Lastwall Phalanx doesn't see more action. Do people just not know about it? Because it sure seems like the business. ^_^

It has the same problem of Shake it off, in that you have to be adjacent to your partner. That kills flanking, forces two characters (usually both of melees) to always focus on the same enemy, and makes you weak against all the AoEs in the game.

Little Red Goblin Games wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
Is the Davatti based on or similar to your Dimensional Knight? How is it different? And why can't I buy Tome of Spell and Sword on the Paizo Store?
And Tome of Spell and Sword is up on Drive Thru RPG still. I'll see if we can get it back up on

Thank you, I had seen it on Drive Thru but didn't want to make an account just for one book, at least not while there is so much on my to buy queue.

My favorites from the decriptions are the davatti, the princess, the henshin hero, multiman and Matter Eater Lad.

Any plans for the Battle Buttler to have a Maid archetype with cleaning powers?

And where did you get the name davatti? I thought it was indian and some kind of dervish or fakhir, but Wikipedia doesn't know it and all Google has is a restaurant name...

Aratrok wrote:
The scope of this effect increases with level, so you might be famous in Hell's Kitchen at low levels and across an entire city district or city at high levels. Might be class abilities that let you move this effect around temporarily.
That gives me pause for concern that the scope on this class is going to be too small. First level being a district is fine- but by the high end of this you should be known to the world or the multiverse. That'd be like if Superman was only known in Metropolis.

That is what playtests are for. Hopefully we get Mark Seifter on charge of the playtest, I liked him on the Kineticist playtest.

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Is the Davatti based on or similar to your Dimensional Knight? How is it different? And why can't I buy Tome of Spell and Sword on the Paizo Store?

But explaining all his powers as being from the sword makes for crappy Pathfinder. It works on Dresden Files RPG and on Mutants and Masterminds but not in Pathfinder. So we make him a paladin.

Back on topic, @fictionfan maybe if we scrap plot sense as something that has to be a thematic choice of the DM, we can make an archetype trading Lay on Hand for a more powerful Weapon Bond and a few extra combat feats?

Mechagamera wrote:
A melee type that isn't reliant on any physical stats, just charisma.

You mean something like a SMITING PALADIN?

The Indescribable wrote:
Actually paladin ISN'T the best choice. Michael is a man who believes. Not just in god but in a truly righteous way of living. He lives by that. Yes that does seem paladin like, but his restrictions are due to his link to the sword, nothing else. It's an Artifact an artifact with prerequisites and limits but he's more or less an ordinary mortal. He's better off being represented as a fighter or maybe Chevalier. (not familiar with it)

So paladin isn't the best choice, except Mchael acts like a paladin, has most of the powers of a paladin, and has the restrictions of a paladin.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then I think it's fair to say it's a member of Anatidae family, you know?
Sure his restrictions are mostly self-imposed from being a righteous man, but that is exactly what a paladins restrictions should be. Keep in mind that paladins, like Knights of the Cross (See: Sanya) don't need gods in D&D and PF. They can't follow gods, like Michael does, but they don't need to. Also his restrictions aren't because of the sword, they are because he s a good christian that actually follows his religion.
And in trying to convert a character to a game system making him a fighter with an artifact sword that is more powerfull than any artifact in the books is worse than giving him levels in the class that already has the right powers.

Arachnofiend wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Chengar Qordath wrote:
Kaouse wrote:

I don't consider casters being powerful as a problem. I like that casters can cast the spells that they do.

The problem with martial-caster disparity, are that the martial classes simply aren't up to par.

If there is a power level disparity between groups, I would prefer to buff the weaker party, rather than nerf the stronger one. That way, the strong party gets to continue having fun, while the weak party gets to have even more fun, as opposed to one or another group being jaded, or builds and ideas being crushed into oblivion (cough cough SLA FAQ cough cough).

I suppose it's simply a difference in ideology.

Yeah, one of the constant points of debate on the martial/caster disparity is whether the martials should be brought up to the level of casters, or casters should be dragged down to the level of martials.

Or the popular third option of Paizo's company line: "Anyone who believes in the martial-caster disparity is propagating a myth to advance their agenda." Presumably, the ultimate goal of said conspiracy is to sap and impurify the precious bodily fluids of the free world.

There is the fourth option where full caster lost their most ludicrous tricks and martials get improved without reaching the previous fullcater ludicrous state.
To be honest, I don't think people would be complaining nearly as much if it was martials on par with the bard and inquisitor vs wizard and druid in terms of power level.
The old Barbarian was on par with the Bard or Inquisitor in terms of value to the party, and some people still complained.

The complaints I usually saw were more: 'The barbarian has reached a good spot, why can't Paizo bring the other martials to barbarian level?'

kestral287 wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
New Barbarian's Will save bonus from Rage will stack with Superstition, so its at +9/+9/+12 (conditional on it being a Spell/SLA, but hey).
That is still a frackton less than +16,+12,+12. Same Will, but Oldbarian has +3 better Reflexes and +7(!) better Fortitude.
Perhaps you should explain exactly which set of numbers you're looking at and exactly what your issue is with them, because this statement does not make sense.

These ones, from your post:

15, Old:
Fort: +12
Ref: +9
Will: +9

15, New:
Fort: +9 vs. Spells/SLAs
Ref: +9 vs. Spells/SLAs
Will: +3; +9 vs. Spells/SLAs

15, Old [+4 Courageous Furious weapon]:
Fort: +16
Ref: +12
Will: +12

15, New [Boots of the Battle Herald, +3 Courageous Furious weapon]:
Fort: +6; +9 vs. Spells/SLAs
Ref: +6; +9 vs. Spells/SLAs
Will: +9; +9 vs. Spells/SLAs

kestral287 wrote:
New Barbarian's Will save bonus from Rage will stack with Superstition, so its at +9/+9/+12 (conditional on it being a Spell/SLA, but hey).

That is still a frackton less than +16,+12,+12. Same Will, but Oldbarian has +3 better Reflexes and +7(!) better Fortitude.

Err, is there something wrong with your math?
Old Barbarian is rocking a +12,+9,+9 at 15 to New Barbarians +9,+9,+9. With items it's +16,+12,+12 vs +9,+9,+9. Unless you forgot to increase the numbers on New Barbarian the Old version has all around better saves at every level, with and without items.

yronimos wrote:

I'm afraid I'm only familiar with "Dresden Files" by way of the canceled TV show, and I don't remember much at all about Michael.

But, is "Paladin" really the best class to represent what the character can do? Perhaps there's another character class with abilities that are closer?

If you don't know the character why would you think Paladin isn't the right class? And in Michaels case it really, really is.

On spells

In Skin Game Michael uses a prayer to cleanse Harry from an attack by demonic insects, burning the insects.

So yeah he's got some spells but he just uses healing and protection ones, he avoids buffs.

Xexyz wrote:
bookrat wrote:
I'll add on to it from an in-game point of view: most people in a polythiestic society freely worship all deities, depending on the prayer and the associated events (harvest, travel, etc...). I would easily consider these worshipers to be devoted for the purposes of your spell restrictions.

OMG, this is a great point and one I totally forgot about when I first posted. You're right, most of the people in the world would be Polytheistic: A farmer gets up in the morning and says a prayer to Belan, God of Wind and the Sky, because she needs the rains to come so her crop will be successful. That evening at dinner she and her family offers thanks to Redeif, God of Wealth and the Hearth for the prosperity they enjoy, and at night before she goes to bed she offers thanks to Lynnain, Goddess of Life, for the fact she and her family are healthy.

So having rethought this, now I'm more inclined to think that the good and neutral gods would not be so strict, but the evil gods would.

Why? From an Evil cleric/god point of view, ressurrecting someone that isn't a worshipper is a good way to say 'you owe me one' or 'see! I'm not as bad as the other gods say, am I?' It's a great gateway to try and corrupt people.

Also form the point of view of any religion it can be used as a show of power. 'You keep praying to Belan but it was the power of Malador that brought you back. You should convert to the God who actually cares about you.'
And for Evil it can also be a nifty way to mess with the mind of the adventurers: 'Clerics of the God of evil ressurrected me? Why? Are they manipulating us? Have I done evil? Has this whole quest been in their favor all along?'

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Epic Meepo wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
No reason to not take Come and Get Me instead of Taunting Stance, since they come at the same level and you probably have some other stance already.
The unchained barbarian can't take Come and Get Me. The unchained rage powers replace all of the rage powers from the CRB, APG, and UC except for those listed in the "Unmodified Rage Powers" sidebar. (The sidebar states this explicitly.)

In that case there is no reason to use the unchained barbarian. It's a straight downgrade to a balanced class. Just houserule it and give the upgraded talents and most of of the stance talents to the regular barbarian.

Increased Damage Reduction and Swift Foot are pure upgrades, glad they finally noticed a +5ft to speed is not worth a rage power.
I don't know why Quick Reflexes was reprinted since it's unchanged.
No reason to not take Come and Get Me instead of Taunting Stance, since they come at the same level and you probably have some other stance already.

The vengeful stranger is the same as the Path of the Stranger book you guys have? What are the differences between the path of hierophant and thepath of living saint?

Does this one include Path of Villains and Path of Dragons?

The gritty version can be a death spiral, but the normal version is good. It makes Endurance an important feat.

I kinda think this is going in the wrong direction. I agree with rungok, it would be easier to create a subsystem based on aura and dust and then create two or three classes based on that system and then use archetypes to mold closer to each character. Maybe some archetypes to normal classes too, Blake could easily be a Slayer or Ninja using an Aura archetype and Yang could be a Brawler or Monk archetype.
So what do we know about Aura?
It passively increases your strenght and speed while it's on. Either have this passives as part of the class features or maybe something like spending a point activates aua for a minute and then you get the passives during this minute.
It gives you a defensive aura, but any damage you take drains your aura. Having Aura active gives some temp HP but if those temp HP are consumed you start losing Aura points, maybe?
It fuels your semblance, which can be anything from healing to superspeed, to magic. The aura based classes could have a list of normal semblances maybe with some advice for the DM on how to create other semblances. Archetypes would be basically having that class as a semblance, so an aura using barbarian is actually someone with a semblance of Rage (Yang would then be an Aura Barbarian with elemental powers and using an unarmed style, maybe multiclassing with Aura Brawler or the Aura Warrior class), the archetype of ninja that replaces Ki with Aura is the semblance of Stealth or the semblance of Shadows (Blake) and the archetype of Magus that uses Aura togheter with Arcane Pool has the semblance of Magic (Glynda) (Maybe a fullcaster? not sure) and the paladin archetype has a semblance of Healing or of Good (Jaun, at least according to fanon).

Here's a rough draft:
Aura (Su): At level 1 you gain a pool of aura points equal to your constitution modifier + your level. As a ??? action you can spend an aura point to activate your aura granting +2 morale bonus to strenght and dexterity and 5 temporary HP per level. Your aura lasts for one minute or until you lose all you temporary HP. If your aura is deactivated through damage you can spend an immediate action to reactivate it. You need your aura active to use your semblance.

Greater Aura: At level 10 the bonuses to strenght and dexterity from having an active Aura increase to +4 and the aura lasts for ten minutes unless you lose all your temp HP.

Infinite Aura: At level 20 your Aura is always active unless you lose your temporary HP. You still have to spend an aura point to restart your aura in that case. Your bonuses to strenght and dexterity increse to +6 while the Aura is active.

Semblance (Su): At first level you select your semblance. A semblance works only while your aura is active. Spending an aura point to use a semblance ability is a free action unless stated otherwise.

Semblance of Speed: You gain a +10 feet increase to your base speed while your aura is active. This increases by +10 feet at 8th and 16th level. You can spend an aura point to double your speed for one round. At 4th level you can spend an aura point to make a turn as part of a charge. At 8th level you can spend an aura point to gain the Light Steps class feature like a ninja of your level for as long as your aura is active. While using this ability you can also run on walls and ceilings but you still must end each turn in a vertical surface capable of holding your weight. At 12th level you can spend an aura point to gain the benefits of Haste or Air Walk as if cast by a wizard of your level. This spell is dispelled if your Aura is deactivated. At 16th level ???. At 20 level ???.

Aura Stunt (Su): At 2nd level you learn to use your aura to subtly bend the laws of reality in favor of awesomess and style. As a free action you can spend an aura point to add 1d6 to the result a d20 roll. This can be a skill check, ability check, attack roll or a saving throw. You can only do this once per roll. When using an aura stunt you must describe your action in a properly awesome, badass or stylish way.

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:

@ I'm Hiding In Your Closet:

I can accept help fleshing out the Egyptians, but I think it would be best if the better mythology buffs tackled the less known pantheons first, leave the norse and the greek for last since anyone can do them. I would like to see the slavic or the canaanite first, if you please.
Okay - where do I go/what do I do to do this? Do we just post it here?

Just post here and Wannabe Demon Lord says he will organize everything in a google doc once we have a few pantheons down.

God of Life, Death and Rebirth, Lord of the Afterlife, Judger of Souls
Alignment: LN
Domains: Death, Healing, Law, Nobility, Repose
Favored Weapon: ??? (Maybe the flail?)
Symbol: The pharaos crook and flail, in green and black
Osiris was the second pharao of the gods after Ra, but he was killed and dismembered by his brother Set. After his wife and sister Isis and their son Horus brought him back he became the lord of the Duat, the underworld. His main job is to weight the souls of the dead against the feather of thruth. Those whose soul is too heavy from sin or to light from inaction are devoured by Ammut but those who lived a good life are sent to enjoy their stay on Duat.
Osiris appears as a pharaoh with green or blsck skin, wielding the crook and flail and wearing a crown with ostrich feathers. Sometimes he may appear mummified and bandaged from the neck down. He is fair and just ruler with little pacience for lawbreakers and hose that would waste his time. His sacred colors are green and black and his sacred animal is the ostrich.
Osirian priests often help with funeral rites and judgements. Worshippers of Osiris include judges, lawmakers, those who work with dead and many who are sick and close to death.
Osirian priests are ambivalent about undead, with some sects vowings to destroy all undeath, except for mummies, while others devote themselves making and serving the undead, specially mummies. Mummies are specially sacred to clerics of Osiris and no cleric of Osiris can attack a mummy.
Clerics of Osiris halve the casting time when casting Raise Dead, Ressurection and True Ressurection.

scary harpy wrote:



The god of heaven, lord of constellations

Symbol: sacred shine surmounted by the divine horned cap.

Sacred number: 60

Astrological region: heavenly equator

Sacred animal: the heavenly Bull

He is a progenitor of the pantheon, the father of the gods, and he is the sky god in the sense that he is god of heaven or the "great above". To our more modern thinking, heaven would be outer space or, to D&D players, the outer planes.

In the Anunnaku (Sumerian) pantheon, An lost influence to Enlil; in the Igigi (Babylonian) pantheon, Ellil (Enlil's counterpart) lost influence to Anu. Enlil/Ellil is the actual god of the sky. Anu is a god of monarchs and is not friendly to the common people. His 'kishru's (shooting stars) have awesome strength. He has the ability that anything he puts into words becomes reality.

In the transition from the Anunnaku to the Igigi pantheon, An became both Anu and Anshar; Anu is the god of heaven and Anshar is the axis of heaven - the axle/pivot on which heaven turns. Anshar is not an evil god of darkness.

IMHO, Anshar, 'whole sky', is good name for the one deity and Anum , a more correct spelling for An, is good for his counterpart.


Celestial, Travel,

Celestial, Creation, Law

Avatars of Heaven


messenger / vizier


Anu and Ishtar's 'son'; the 'son' of heaven.

You asked for the example. I made an example. You ignore the example. Why?

Here's the template. It's based on the smaller gods in Inner Seas Guide as WDL has been asking since the first post.

??? Pantheon

Titles, Epithets, God of ???, Lord of ???, Etc
Alignment: ???
Domains: ??? (4 to 5)
Favored Weapon: ???
Symbol: ???
1st paragraph What does the god do, what is his role in the pantheon. What is his sacred animals, does he have sacred colors.
2nd paragraph What does he look like in art or when he sends avatars to interact with the players. Does he even interact with people. How is his personality.
3rd paragraph Who are his worshippers, what are they expected to do. Any adventure hooks for a player tht chooses this god.
4th paragraph Any other interesting bits or cool legends you want to add about this god
5th paragraph A small bonus for worshippers independent of domain, a spell they can cast a level early, a spell they can get from another list, bonus flavor choices when casting Summon Monster spells, small bonuses when casting spells against the deities favored enemies, stuff like that.

I should update Bes to include more stuff.

@ I'm Hiding In Your Closet:
I can accept help fleshing out the Egyptians, but I think it would be best if the better mythology buffs tackled the less known pantheons first, leave the norse and the greek for last since anyone can do them. I would like to see the slavic or the canaanite first, if you please.

@ Aleristhe
Could you help Scary Harpy with the Mesopotamian first? What would you suggest for the favored weapon and domains of Anu?

Bes god coming through for an example:

Egiptian Pantheon

God of Ugliness, Deformities and Birth Defects, God of Luck, Protector of Children and Mothers, God of Music, Dance and Parties
Alignment: NG
Domains: Community, Good, Luck, Protection
Favored Weapon: Club
Symbol: A representation of his face.
Bes is a protector god with the job of scaring away spirits and fighting demons. He gives special protection to children and pregnant mothers, to those that suffer from deformities and to those that work to bring joy to others such as artists and courtesans.
Bes appears as a human male about the size of a gnome but with distorted proportions and a stockier build. His face seems squashed and beaten in, with eyes not properly aligned, one bigger than the other, a big nose, broken and badly reset and wild untamed hair, beard and eyebrows. His priests teach to not judge by looks and to consider ones actions when judging them.
Priests of Bes usually work with hospitals, in maternity wards or helping those that have suffered amputations or disfigurement. Priests of Bes are also expected to ward of evil and protect their communities, many even becoming adenturers.
Clerics of Bes may prepare the Fear spell as a 4th level divine spell, ignoring the material component of the spell.

Wannabe Demon Lord wrote:

I figured it would be a divide and conquer type thing. Each person would cover one, or a part of, a pantheon.

Basically it would go like this:

Each deity would get an Inner Sea Gods appendix entry. Name/Alignment/Title/Areas of Concern/Domains/Subdomains/Favored Weapon/Symbol/Sacred Animal/Sacred Colors. So each one wouldn't be much work, most of it can be inferred from the mythology, which can be found quickly on Google. Inner Sea gods's appendix is only a small part of the book, and covers 300 deities. But I could totally be in over my head.

And yeah, Arthurian mythology is really cool. Not sure how it would work for this, though.

So, okay, do I just pick the gods I want, post them in this thread and you organize by pantheon in a google doc and later a pdf? Is that how it works?

I call the egyptians. I've restarded reading Rick Riordan so I'm going to try and do the ones from the books.

Tyrannical wrote:

Took on board all the recent feedback and did some tweaking, didn't end up going for the Quinggong Monk style of progression in the end, but I think this works out well. I wanted to make sure there weren't any dead levels, just as Monk is, and think I got a balanced version here;

** spoiler omitted **

I'll come up with a list of bonus feats soon, just wanted to see what people think of this version so far.

Now that you did the fly template doing other skystriker classes is easy. Here's the Skystriker Cavalier, a Cavalier with a secondary of Monk.

Skystriker Cavalier:

1 = High Jump, Challenge 1/day, Order, Tactician
2 = Levitation (30 feet, 1 hour/level), Order Ability
3 = Fly (40 feet, clumsy, 1 min/level), Cavaliers Charge
4 = Challenge 2/day
5 = Banner
6 = Fly (50 feet, average), Bonus Feat
7 = Challenge 3/day
8 = Order Ability
9 = Fly (60 feet, 10 min/level), Greater Tactician
10 = Slow Fall 50ft, Challenge 4/day
11 = Mighty Charge
12 = Fly (70 feet, good) Bonus Feat, Demanding Challenge
13 = Challenge 5/day
14 = Greater Banner
15 = Fly (80 feet, 1 hour/level), Order Ability
16 = Challenge 6/day
17 = Master Tactician
18 = Fly (90 feet, perfect), Bonus Feat
19 = Challenge 7/day
20 = Fly (at will), Supreme Charge

High Jump, Levitation and Fly replace Mount and Expert Trainer
Cavaliers Charge, Mighty Charge, Supreme Charge and any Order Abilities that affect mounted charge instead affect charges while flying.

Tomorrow I'll do the alchemist and the swashbuckler.

Chengar Qordath wrote:
11. Randomly roll a dice, then smile to yourself. When someone asks what the roll was for, just say "You'll find out later." Bonus points if you were rolling in the open, and the die came up as a natural twenty or natural one.

65. Randomly roll a dice and then look worried/guilty, like you're not sure that they can avoid a TPK. Bonus points if you were rolling in the open, and the die came up as a natural twenty or natural one. Mix with 11 for extra mind fu@+$ery.

Tyrannical wrote:

hmm, just going over ideas for what secondary class to put in, how do people feel about these secondaries?

Cavalier - Able to use flying to charge enemies, as you would on a mount

Druid/Wizard/Sorcerer/Arcanist - Able to command wind, like the Air Nomads of 'Avatar', somewhat

Alchemist - Special bombs that must be dropped instead of thrown.

Swashbuckler - a form of aerial deeds, to perform airborne stunts and attacks.

Magus/Warpriest - Throwing themed weapon buffs and a small pool of spells. Scaling weapon damage as these classes would offer.

Oracle/Shaman - Some spiritual connection to the heavens, sun, moon, stars or wind that allows for flight, and uses hexes/revelations

Do all of them. Alchemist bombers, Magus fighter jets, Druids specialized in turning into birds or bird hybrids, Swashbucklers masters of aerial acrobatics, Cavalier air jousters, Oracles of sky. Make a whole party of flying characters.

Groups with little experience is the worst argument against the skill using maneuvers. Because they would say "A skill check? Well you can fail that, I guess this maneuver is okay". And they would be right, because it takes a lot of min-maxing to go around making items that give +10 bonus to a skill just because of a couple maneuvers. If it was auto succeed they would take one look and say "No, nope, screw that, banned, ban forever"

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Bloody good work!

You were waiting all month to use that bloody line weren't you?

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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed some posts and the replies to them. One of the important things in our Community Guidelines is being observant of other gamers/gaming styles. Even if there is something about a game/gaming you do not like, be respectful to others in the conversation. Additionally, we have many threads concerning the issues regarding the Advanced Class Guide. We do not need to rehash them here.

So many posts got removed, I was scared for a moment that my very important contribution had been lost. Then I realized the thread had just turned wonky because of the insane amount of posts that had to be removed.

Look at Page 3, my friends. A terrible battle was fought here. Now, only shapes to see, perhaps, not to touch.

You people kept feeding the regenerating giant. I, and hopefully others, did what any decent forumite should do and flagged every one of his posts for 'breaking other guidelines', i.e. beign a regenerating giant.

Let me try to help:

Weapon and Armor proficiency: Shinobi are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the kama, katana, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi. They are proficient with light armor but not with shields.

Poison Use (Ex): At 1st level, a shinobi is trained in the use of poison and cannot accidentally poison herself when applying poison to a weapon.

This ability replaces track.

Ki Pool (Su): At 2nd level, a shinobi gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy she can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in the ninja’s ki pool is equal to 1/2 her shinobi level + her Intelligence modifier. As long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, she treats any Acrobatics skill check made to jump as if she had a running start. At 10th level, she also reduces the DC of Acrobatics skill checks made to jump by 1/2 (although she still cannot move farther than her speed allows).

By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a shinobi can increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round. In addition, a shinobi can spend 1 point from her ki pool to give herself a +4 insight bonus on Stealth checks for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.

The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive. If the shinobi possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, shinobi levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of ki points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The shinobi can now use ki points from this pool to power the abilities of every class she possesses that grants a ki pool.

This ability replaces the Slayer Talent gained at second level.

Slayer Talents: When a shinobi selects a slayer talent, she may choose any ninja trick whose effects are tied to her ki pool in addition to those she can normally choose.

This alters the slayer talent class feature.

Poison Immunity (Ex): At 11th level the shinobi becomes immune to all poisons.

This ability replaces the swift tracker class feature

Abundant Step (Su): At 13th level or higher, a shinobi can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from her ki pool. Her caster level for this effect is equal to her shinobi level. She cannot take other creatures with her when she uses this ability. Starting at 17th level this ability consumes only one point of ki. At 19th level the shinobi can spend 3 extra ki points to use this ability as a swift action or 2 extra ki points to take other creatures with her as normal per the dimension door spell.

This replaces slayer's advance, quarry and improved quarry.

If the intent is to completely subsume the ninja you can add these new Slayer Talents:
Swift Stike (Su): Prerequisite: Ki Pool. By spending 1 point from her Ki Pool the slayer can make an extra attack at her highest BAB as part of a full attack.
Ninja Steps (Ex): Prerequisite: Level 6. The slayer gains the No Trace and Light Steps abilities, using her slayer levels as her effective ninja level.

The best version of the feat is the original one.

Frak Qinggong Monks. If you want to be a pseudo caster you lose this single advantage of being pure martial. And frak gnomes and other SLA races.

The only thing I would change is include extract makers as having caster levels for the purpose of this feat and allow it to be retrained if you get a level in a class with caster level. Mostly because this feat was published before Alchemists existed and before there were retraining rules.

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I support the skill check maneuvers. It's something you're going to be able to do once, twice tops, in a fight. You should be able to do it consistently since you're spending 5% of your WBL a feat (or more) and full ranks on sleight of hand.

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Elder Basilisk wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

You're probably being a little extreme. The fighter isn't the skill guy. He should, however, have at least as many skill points as a Ranger. There's no reason a Ranger, who can twiddle his fingers to solve so many of his problems, should have 6 skill points and the fighter shouldn't. The only reason he does is because hide in shadows, move silently, and track/survival are now skill points instead of class features.

But, two good saves is an imperative, and seriously, ALL good saves wouldn't be overpowered. The fighter has no class abilities that stack on them, unlike the monk.

Evasion should be a combat feat.

Talents are as bad as combat feats, and should be reserved to make the Rogue special.
Fighters should have their own 'Techniques' that other classes can't take, which should basically be combat feats that actually scale and are useful at all levels. In effect, a fighter's 'bonus combat feats' should be at least the equal of Rage Powers. They are both class features, but one is useful at all levels, and the other is meh.


Actually, I was being sorta serious. One of the assumptions from previous editions of the game is that fighter and rogue are separate classes--that Fafrd and the Grey Mouser have different class based abilities rather than just different stats and builds.

What if rather than having "skill guy" and "fighting guy" as archetypes, we just had a "non-magical" guy who is skilled at fighting and skilled at skills? That would nicely solve the constant complaining that fighters can't contribute outside of combat and rogues cannot contribute inside combat. And it would make it much easier for "fighter" characters to model the abilities that fictional heroes have. Many fictional heroes can fight well, ride, jump, climb, notice the ninjas sneaking up on them, notice when they are being lied to, be stealthy, be suave, lead an army, seduce a lady, and tinker with gadgets in their spare time--all at once and without splitting those abilities...

And we could call it something cool like slayer or something.

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