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Nar'shinddah Sugimar

VM mercenario's page

1,457 posts (1,464 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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I like that the paragon changed from just Superman to any hero who is super strong and invulnerable.
I think you could add the Advanced Prowesses Celerity and Juggernaut to the list of Prowesses he can pick instead of Paragon Powers.

I still think that in Man of Steel you can change "At 10th level, this damage reduction is no longer be negated by magic weapons." to "At 10th level, this damage reduction becomes DR/-" to use clear rules language.

Something that could make a good Paragon Power is gaining the rock throwing racial ability.. So you can throw cars wagons at people, like a true superhero.

The Paragon Power Touch of Truth should specify that holding an end of the rope, chains or lasso used to tie an enemy counts as phisical contact with the enemy.

Uncanny Movement allows you to make Jason Voorhees as a paragon fighter. This is good.

The barbarian Rage Powers Body Bludgeon and Come and Get Me, or variations of them, could be used as Combat Prowesses. CaGM was actually a combat feat in 3.5.
Body Bludgeon would work best as a Paragon Power, so a medium human paragon can grab a giant by the ankle and use him to bludgeon a kaiju.

A few more ideas for Paragon Powers:
Animal Speech: speak with animal at will and Wild Empathy. Necessary to finish Aquaman or Wonder Woman builds.
Secret Identity: Something based on the Vigilantes Dual Identity, which could also be a feat. Because Clark can't be Superman, he wears glasses!
Shapeshifting: Starting with Alter Self a few minutes a day and later adding Beast Shape. Necessary to build J'onn, though telepathy would be too complicated to make as Powers. He can dip Psion or Tactician for that.
Size Shifting: Cast Enlarge Person or Shrink Person on self, an buy multiple times to enlarge up to colossal or shrink down to fine. Doesn't stack with Mightier than a Titan while you're enlarged, or stack only up to Colossal, since there is no larger category. Because Ant Man. Also Hulk probably has one level of this.


Battle Telepath:
On Bladed Collective in the first paragraph, I think this "As part of a standard action that the the battle telepath used to make an attack, he may manifest his mind blade as if his position were the same as an ally’s position within his collective." could be reworded as this: "As a standard action the battle telepath may manifest a mind blade in the square of an ally in his collecive and attack as if he were standing in that position. This mind blade disspates after the attack." I think it's more clear on the effect.

On Collective Skill, Improved Lend Blade Skill means you can lend all your Blade Skills at once? It sort of implies you can lend any one blade skill you know instead of the one you chose for Lend Blade Skill, but Lend Blade Skill doesn't say you have to choose one Blade Skill and can only lend that one. Also, can you lend different Blade Skill to different members of the collective?

I agree this and Primarch need better names, but I really can't think of them. Primarch makes me think of WH40K, which has nothing to do with the PrC. And Battle Telepath makes me think of telepathic attacks, not of mind blades.

Also the Primarch is much better now.


Lemmy wrote:
Hey, VMM! Good to see you're still around! I thought you had given up on Pathfinder.

Not on Pathfider, just on juggling work and games. I mostly haunt the homebrew forum and the 3pp playtests.

I'll be back if I can guarantee to always have sundays free. Or if you can guarantee the rest of the group isn't going to disappear for three sundays and only go when I can't go.

Lemmy wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
TATICAL MOVEMENT: I'm trying to remember if there are any circunstances that ask for a reflex save instead of an acrobatics check for any of those things and I'm coming up blank. Are there any spells that do it or is it just future proofing?
"Better safe than sorry". :P

Maybe add it to reflex saves against things that would entangle, slow or pparalyze him instead?

Lemmy wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
ARMOR TRAINING: For some reason you changed the not being slowed by medium armor from 3rd level up to seventh level with heavy armor. It also allows you to sleep in any armor which is better than Endurance's main benefit, making an already bad feat worthless for the fighter.
Uh... Fighters stop being slowed by armor at 7th level. I didn't change that one. I don't mind Fighters not needing Endurance to be able to sleep in heavy armor. They are Fighters! Their armor is all the shelter they need! XD

Err...

Core Rulebook wrote:
In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.

Yeah, core fighter can move normal speed in medium armor at 3rd level. Only Heavy Armor is 7th level.

Lemmy wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
WEAPON TRAINING: It's okay. I would prefer if his main weapon group was full bonus and the secondary groups were all at full bonus -1, but for flavor reasons. I like the idea that he is best with one weapon group but still awesome with the other. But I think that is just me.
I don't like the fact that it has diminishing return... Besides, you can always represent focus on a single weapon/weapon group by taking feats such as weapon focus, improved critical, etc.

Not diminishing returns, I would like a swordmaster, for example, to be Heavy Blades +5, Light Blades, Bows, Polearms, Close +4, but I know it's just me.


COMBAT PROWESS

Armor Adjustments: I get what it's supposed to do but it's useless. Increase the duration from rounds per level to hours per level, that way you can use it on the whole party in the morning and have it set, instead of having to fidget with their clothes every other minute like a fussy mother.

Fake Surrender: If you ever make a Revised Rogue this should be Rogue Talent too.

Phalanx Fighter: It has an extra he lost on the phrase. Also add that he loses reach if he is not using a shield on the other hand. Unless two weapon fighting with reach is supposed to be allowed, in which case give some other benefit to wielding spear and shield, like being able to brace as an immediate action.
Add that if he is using a spear in both hands he can use a swift action to change grip on the weapon and lose reach to use the spear against adjacent enemies. Maybe add that he can do it as an immediate action but takes a -2 to attack until te beginning of his turn.

Positioning: Clarify is this is an extra 5ft step, he can take. If it isn't then this prowess does nothing, since you can already do 5feet teps.

Shield Expertise: Change the last sentence to "He may equip a shield as a immediate action when attacked. He gains the shield bonus to AC against the triggering attack. This may cause the triggering attack to miss."

Skill Focus: Yeah... no one is going to waste a prowess on a skill focus. Prowesses are supposed to be better than feats, and as humans prove skill focus is worth less than a feat.

Wild Card Feat: Clarify that if you get more than one feat with a swift action you can use a wildcard feat as prerequisite for the other, so you can, for example, use two uses to get vital strike and improved vital strike.
Also I think additional times could give two uses each.

Awe Inspiring Strike: No need for the *. Just add the sentence about switching strenght normally, like you did on Impose Will.

Fleet Footed: Should be a Basic Prowess.

Secure Perimeter: Change it to a Greater Prowess, increase the Blindsense to 15ft, increase it to 30ft at 17th level, increase the blindsight to 10ft at 20th level. A Supertitious barbarian gets Blindsense 30ft at 16 level and Blindsight 30ft at 19th level, no reason the fighter should be so much worse.

Toe Stomper: Add that if it's a winged creature he can attack the wing and apply the penalty to flying speed and to Fly skill checks. If the creature is flying when he does this it must pass a fly skill check or begin falling.

Rise the Fallen: Should be 'Raise'. It would make more sense to me if it was Breath of Life, so he could revive people, instead of using their corpses. Also it's missing how many times a day e can use it.

Elemental Warrior: Change "and gains energy resistance 10 against all other types" to "and gains energy resistance 10 against the other three types" or add "and gains energy resistance 10 against all other types, including sonic and force". Maybe allow him to choose immunity to sonic or force but gain only 2d4 extra damage instead of 2d6.

Hero of Legend: Give a save to the Shaken condition, or remove the additional 5 rounds after they leave his threatened area.

A few ideas for Combat Prowesses:

Basic:

Army Training: The fighter gains ranks in Profession (Soldier) equal to his fighter level. He does not take non lethal damage from hustling or forced march. He gains a +4 bonus to resist thirsty and starvation, and considers his strenght score as two higher for the purposes of carrying capacity.

Navy Training: The fighter gains ranks in Profession (Sailor) equal to his fighter level. He can hold his breath for one minute per point of con instead of two rounds per point of con. He ignores the normal cover bonus to AC when attacking creatures that are partially immersed in water. He can move half his speed as a move action underwater with a sucessful swim check, or his full speed as a full round action with a sucessful swim check.

Advanced:

Master Blacksmith: You gain the Master Craftsman Feat and a bonus to to the chosen skill equal to half your BAB. This Prowess can be taken more than once each time you take it you must select a new skill.


SKILLS: I think 4 skill points should be enough, 6 should be reserved for the classes that are supposed to be skilled, like the ranger and bard.

FIGHTING STYLE: Have you considered changing it to one feat from that list and starting Weapon Traing at first level? It's weird to me that the Fighter of all full BAB classes is the only one that has to wait until fifth level to get his attack and damage bous feature.

PRACTICE OVERCOMES TALENT: Pretty good, not only it helps with Combat Expertise, it also allows the fighter to use Two Weapon Fighter without focusing on dex and allows him to take those monk feats that require high wis.

TATICAL MOVEMENT: I'm trying to remember if there are any circunstances that ask for a reflex save instead of an acrobatics check for any of those things and I'm coming up blank. Are there any spells that do it or is it just future proofing?

COMBAT PROWESS: I like the name, just for avoiding using 'talents'. More in depth on the prowesses on my next post.

ARMOR TRAINING: For some reason you changed the not being slowed by medium armor from 3rd level up to seventh level with heavy armor. It also allows you to sleep in any armor which is better than Endurances main benefit, making an already bad feat worthless for the fighter.

BRAVERY: Change mind control to charm and compulsion effects.

SOLO TACTICS: It's a good ability. You should make at least one archetype that replaces it with Tactician.

MEN AT ARMS: Good ability and I like the flavor.

WEAPON TRAINING: It's okay. I would prefer if his main weapon group was full bonus and the secondary groups were all at full bonus -1, but for flavor reasons. I like the idea that he is best with one weapon group but still awesome with the other. But I think that is just me.

FEARLESS: It doesn't invalidate bravery, since bravery still protects you from possession and mind control.

PROMPTITUDE: Gods that name! How about Battle Ready, or Vigilant? Also maybe add your bravery bonus to perception checks to notice ambushes and to determine awareness during a surprise round?

MARTIAL MASTERY: Pretty cool, more flavorful than powerful.

UNSTOPABLE and RELENTLESS: maybe add a little something unstoppable, it triggers my OCD that unstoppable is only one thing and relentless is four. Also Relentless needs to make clear if the fighter is staggered if has less than 0 hp but isn't unconscious. Normally abilities that allow you to remain conscious make you staggered, but on the other hand they usually allow you to remain conscious until you die.

ARMOR MASTERY: It allows a dex melee fighter to suddenly wear full plate with no penalty, for maximun AC. That is a feature. It allows an archer the same thing. That isn't. Not much can be done about it, just wanted to point out the exploit.

WEAPON MASTERY: It's okay, just change te last sentence to "In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon from one of his weapon groups". The way it is now it makes it seem you have to chose one weapon group that can't be disarmed.

WARBOUND: Good capstone.

ARCHETYPES:
Fist Fighter: Flurry of Blows is using different languange from Flurry of Blows from the monk. Don't do that. Either use the same language from the Unchained Monk, or rename the ability. My suggestion is using Brawlers Flurry, just copy paste from Brawler and change brawler to fighter.
Vigor Burning: It doesn't say if its gained at 7th level together with Vigor or at 9th when you would gain Unstoppable, needs clarification.

Paragon: I see what you did there :)
At Man of Steel, change the second phrase to "At 10th level this DR becomes DR/-." Short and uses game terms to avoid confusion.
Any way to make so that Freezing Threat can instead be focused on a single target to entangle the target and paralyze if used a second time on an entangled character?


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Lanitril wrote:

Alright, so obviously the book with the Occult Classes is ALLLLLMOSSST out, but I figure it's never too early to theorycraft. I wanna know what you guys think.

What is the best gestalt for a Kineticist? At first, the main one in my mind was Monk/Kineticist. Not for any sort of overpoweredness, I just liked it. But now I've been seriously wondering about the different combos. Something with Mutagen or Rage for extra HP to burn? Synthesist for the exact same reason? Unchained Rogue to go into melee, dual wielding light kinetic blades, while still maintaining ranged power?

Any other ideas anybody got? Maybe for the other classes too?

Now that it's actually out:

Kineticist: Scarred Witch Doctor (ignoring the godawful errata). Con and Dex is all you need. Blast with kineticist and if you're up against elemental resistance debuff with witch spells. And you have lots of utility slots on both sides.
3pp: Mystic from Amora Games Liber Influx Communis. You start with two elements, and eventually get a third and fourth. You are the Avatar.

Medium: Dunno, I don't like the medium, the spirits feel very bland.
3pp: Whatever gestalt you think of doig with the Medium can be done with more power and better flavor with Radiance Houses Occultist. If the Harrow Medium ever gets released, then you could gestalt Harrow Medium with Occultist and house nearly ten spirits at the same time. Just for lulz.

Mesmerist: Fighter or Cavalier. Psychic spells can be used with heavy armor, the stares work well with melee combat, bravery becomes actually semi useful, being a frontliner helps with implanting tricks mid combat if you need and mesmerist covers the fighters lack of outside combat abilities.
3pp: Anything with full BAB heavy armor and can use charisma. Warlords, Daevas, Battle Lords, etc.
Alternatively, Taskshaper. Consumate Liar + Glib Lie + Shapeshifting = best infiltrator ever.

Occultist: Wizard, Arcanist or any other Int full caster, because being int SAD is always powerful. Battle Host//Fighter or any other full BAB that can spare points for int without getting MAD. Occultist/Investigator//Wizard makes for a perfect Harry Dresden.
3pp: Same thing, really, with the addition of craft focused classes. Occultist//Artisan, Occultist//Vizier or Occultist//Machinesmith make for great item focused characters.

Psychic: You can use the psychiic instead of the wizard in any gestalt that uses wizard, except now you have an easier time wearing armor. Psychedelia Mutation Mind Psychic//Alchemist is astonishigly flavorful.
3pp: Same thing, anything you can gestalt with psion you can gestalt with psychic. Of special mention is the Mnemonic from Liber Influx Communis, a monk type class that uses int instead of wis and and specializes in memory theft, memory manipulation and punching poeplein the mind.

Spiritualit: Monk. Punch people while yor standphantom punches people. Get an Anger or Dedication Focus Phantom, put points in performance dance or acting so you pose with skill, say ORA ORA ORA, and name your standphantom after a song. Bonus points if the first and last names of your character start with Jo, Gio or a similar sound, no matter their race. Double jeopardy points if you choose your touch spells known inside a theme as your standsphantoms power.
Or you can be a boring person and go with cleric with the phantom of a champion of your deity. Better armor, nine level spells, wis focus. Or Druid if your DM allows you to have a Phantom and an Animal Companion at the same time. Gunslinger can work with you shooting and a Jealousy Phantom (your dead lover that you want to avenge, maybe?) protecting you in the frontlines.
3pp: Different monk type classes, for different JoJos! Gurus, Stalkers, Deadly Fist Soulknifes.
Or other wisdom using classes. If you're a boring non-JoJo person.


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Elricaltovilla wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
Elricaltovilla wrote:
Fury of the Tempest wrote:
We ARE allowed to post our own items as suggestions... right?
You can submit them to our website or message one of us writers if you have something you'd like to submit. After all, why not do what we do and get paid for this? :P

Posting a suggestion that popped in my head coming back from work:

Belt of Throwing: This belt has loops, hooks and pouches for daggers, handaxes and other thrwing weapons. This belt can be enchanted as a throwing weapon. Any weapon or ammo drawn from this belt gains the weapon enhancement and enchantments applied to the belt. This lasts until the weapon is used for an attack or for 30 seconds (5 rounds) after it has been drawn. The belt can hold up to twenty one handed or light weapons, or 50 pieces of ammo. Belt Slot or Chest Slot. Two belts of throwing can be used on chest slot at the same time.

Basically an Amulet of Mighty Fists for throwing. Hopefully not as overpriced.
Should solve one of the main problems with throwing weapons. Simple solution someone might have thought of before. I don't remember seeing a similar item before, but I could be wrong.

Is there a reason for you to be allowed to put two belts on your chest slot?

Crossed bandoliers, the always necessary belt of phisical perfection, crossed bandoliers are cool, in case someone wants to pay for two sets of weapon enchanments, bandoliers are badass.


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Elricaltovilla wrote:
Fury of the Tempest wrote:
We ARE allowed to post our own items as suggestions... right?
You can submit them to our website or message one of us writers if you have something you'd like to submit. After all, why not do what we do and get paid for this? :P

Posting a suggestion that popped in my head coming back from work:

Belt of Throwing: This belt has loops, hooks and pouches for daggers, handaxes and other thrwing weapons. This belt can be enchanted as a throwing weapon. Any weapon or ammo drawn from this belt gains the weapon enhancement and enchantments applied to the belt. This lasts until the weapon is used for an attack or for 30 seconds (5 rounds) after it has been drawn. The belt can hold up to twenty one handed or light weapons, or 50 pieces of ammo. Belt Slot or Chest Slot. Two belts of throwing can be used on chest slot at the same time.

Basically an Amulet of Mighty Fists for throwing. Hopefully not as overpriced.
Should solve one of the main problems with throwing weapons. Simple solution someone might have thought of before. I don't remember seeing a similar item before, but I could be wrong.


ErrantX wrote:
Skaldi the Tallest wrote:
ErrantX wrote:
Skaldi the Tallest wrote:

Chris,

Thoughts on something to allow a multi-armed soulknife the ability to manifest more than 2 blades? Either a blade skill or a feat?

While I'm not opposed to that, I'm curious what races have multiple limbs that are considered non-super powered, viable PC races?

-X

A human with 5 levels of Aegis/ levels in metaforge? Starting at level 5 a character can have three functional arms from their astral suit and a level 5 equivalent mindblade.

The Metafoge is what originally made me wish that a soulknife could split their weapons more than once.

Seems feasible. I'd say weapons for hands three and onward would have to be light weapon equivalents though.

-X

Maybe use Mind Daggers as a prereq and the other hands have to use a mind dagger?

Also, link, so I don't have to go to the first page everytime.

Edit: On the Primarch, The 4th level Ice Psychic Awakening is worse than the Fire and Storm ones and it's a worse form of what he gains at 7th level anyway.
Singularity of War has some wonky wording. For a Fire path Primarch does it means he can throw an Energy Ball as a free action when manifesting his mind blade? It's great for Flame and Storm but useless for Ice and Metal.
And it says that 'his second awakening improves its potency as well by gaining the following technique based on upon the primarch’s psychic epiphany.' He does gain a new option but that doesn't improve his second awakening power it just grant another power.
And the Singularity of War of the Metal path doesn't specify an action. Is it an attack action, a swift action a free action? If it's an attack action can I use it to substitute my last iterative attack? Can I use it in place of an AoO? If I use it to hit at range what is the range? First increment range as if I was throwing the blade, first range for my soulbolt, some other range?
Finally is the Primarch supposed to be the PrC that was based around Blade Skills? It kinda gets sidetracked by all the elemental stuff.


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Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:

All undead are evil. Simply being undead is enough to ping as evil.

You think the villagers are gonna be reasonable and straight forward about the orcs? They will most likely say that the orcs killed many of their men and spread the typical horror stories of orcs.

If an undead who does nothing evil, works to overcome their evil desires, and preserves the lives of their potential victims still pings as evil, the DM is a jerk. If you don't do evil things you aren't evil, simple as that. There are examples of "evil creatures" becoming good in the Golarion setting - Wrath of the Righteous has a few. This trend of "All x are Evil" is a 3.5 relic that Paizo has explicitly avoided. Regardless, a Paladin who kills that vampire still falls for committing murder of an innocent.

If the paladin is tricked into going after those orcs, they still need to verify the story they were given. People can and will lie to get what they want. You cannot make assumptions as a Paladin - you have higher standards than that. If you want to play the character that blindly trusts people and mercilessly slaughters anything anyone says is bad, don't play a Paladin.

Think about this.

1)How many paladins speak orc?

2) The orcs have already bee attacked once, they see some HEAVILY guys strolling up to their camp. Chances are they will jump to action beofr giving them an oppotunity to hit them first.

3) Orcs have A piss poor reputation already. If you wanna make it even tougher, say a camp of drow. Drow are universally known as evil. They are also Known liars. Most wouldnt think twice of killong some drow. Same thing with the orcs. Orcs are like goblins, they are "monsters".

As for the undead thing, yeah some people get redeemed, but one thing Paizo has deffinetely not budged on is ALL undead are evil. Your actions mean nothing in regards to alignment of undead. Otherwise mindless undead would be neutral... sinply BEING undead is enough to be evil.

1. How many don't? Along with Abyssal, Demonic, Subterranean and Drow. Those are the languages of their main enemies, why wouldn't they study them? What kind of stupid paladin wouldn't want to decypher written messages and be able to understand what their enemy commanders are shouting?

2. That is why you arrived with weapons sheated and announce yourself in a loud and clear voice before arriving. Ask them to leave without bloodshed. If they start a fight you kill them in self defense.

3. Only a racist lets prejudice cloud judgement. Paladins by definition are not klansmen. They won't kill them just because they are green.

Just because some people don't know how to play a Good character, doesn't mean it's impossible.


Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
All undead are evil. Simply being undead is enough to ping as evil.

This is incorrect. Undead creatures without the evil alignment do not ping as evil. Detect evil explicitly requires an aligned undead to ping, not just any ol' undead. If you meet a neutral-aligned mummy, they won't show up on detect evil at all.

Undead do, however, provide stronger auras when they are aligned when using detect [alignment] spells.

I cant remember if mummys may be different but the problem is that Paizo made it a point of ensuring undead ARE EVIL for the sake of being undead. Case and point, the Ju Ju zombie. First time a necromancer type could make non evil undead... then they changed it to be evil...

Yes all undead are made evil, and the vampire template makes you evil.

BUT

An inteligent undead is fully capable of changing his alignment. That example vampire is trying to, and probably has, change her alignment.

Undead are not of the [Evil] subtype, so if they change alignment to good, or even just neutral, they stop pinging on Detect Evil.

And a paladin, or any adventurer really, should study the vampire before attacking, if nothing else to make sure it's not ten levels higher than the party. That scouting would reveal the thruth to the paladin.


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Quintain wrote:

Yes, but the question is why? If the LG deity had a vision showing the release of Rovagug and the ensuing end of the multiverse, what are the options.

This comes down to a question of perspective. If you liken golarion to a limb on the human body and that limb has gangrene, is it not better (aka more Lawful and Good) to sever the limb so that the rest of the body can survive?

Kill millions so that untold trillions may live? That is the scenario.

Kill none. If the deity can forsee Rovagug awakening then it can forsee how it is awakened and we stop that. And remember what we say to the gods of Evil: Not today.

Kill Rovagug. If we can't stop Rovagug awakening, we remind the gods why THEY need US, because gods are limited by their destinies but mortals are pure potential, changers of fate, destroyers of destiny. Be awesome, be epic, be mythic. Kick your puny reason to the curb, pierce the skies, do the impossible, kill the unkillable.

Die trying. If its impossible you go out fighting for good. You don't bow to evil, you dont accept death. Never give up, never surrender, this is the duty of a paladin, nay, his privelege.

Quintain wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:

Wouldn't be the first time the Big Damn Heroes of a story manage to kill an evil entity that was only sealed the first time.

Paladins find another way. They certainly don't force the sacrifice of others. Familiar with the Culling of Stratholme?

This is a fantastic question:

Let's flip the scenario -- let's say you (as a paladin) are thrown back in time, and are pivotal in the events where in a fellow paladin became a great evil, but there are events in the scenario where your intervention could prevent that fall.

Here are your options: prevent the fall, thus changing the timeline and all it's inherent unknowns coming into play, possibly bringing an even greater evil to the fore,

or

allow the fall, knowing full well that you strengthen evil in the short run and thus ensure that all the atrocities said anti-paladin commits will come into place.

What do you do?

Prevent the fall. You can't predict the future to know this would cause a greater evil, you also can't predict the future to know if this will make the future better for everybody.

Stop evil now, and if a worse evil shows up, you stop that evil too.


Bardess wrote:

Sorry. Many books haven't still been translated in Italian, so I'm talking based on what I did read. I'm still missing Night Watch. But I hope to find the time to catch up.

Still, I'd like to give my opinion if I can. If there's something I don't know, you can always correct me. No need to be so angry.
I didn't know about Vimes' rages, for example. If you build him with rage, it could be a good idea to give him some alcohol-related rage powers.

Yeah, sorry. And sorry to you too Luggs. It's just, I love Discworld and I'm on a project of rereading every single book since Pratchett passed away and it hurts me seeing some really badass characters getting undersold like that.

Most recurring characters got fleshed out and become better with passing books. Vimes in Guards Guards is just a drunk. Granny Weatherwax in her first appearance is just an old jerk. If someone is too translate them to PF I want to see them at their best.


Luggs wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
Bardess wrote:
The Patrician is a high-level LN Aristocrat/Expert. I don't see him as a PC.

I guess you stopped reading before Night Watch, then. Vetinary is a slayer, or possibly a ninja. He could beat Vimes perception checks when he was a teenager, before he graduated from the Assassins Guild School.

His stealth score is so good, he failed his stealth exams because the examiner couldn't find him to take the exam.
Young Vetinari sure. But Patrician Vetinari is more of a mastermind investigator. After all. If someone comes bearing his word, that carries weight.

Why do people that didn't read the books keep giving their wrong opinions? If Vetinari needs someone diplomanced or intimidated he doesn't send people bearing his words. He calls them to his office or goes to them himself as shown in The Truth and The Last Hero to name the first two books that come to mind.

Sure, sometimes he sends Vimes to do some mean diplomancing but Vimes doesn't need a quiet word, he has a good enough intimidate score that Vetinary only needs to send him to the right place.
If he needs to send someone, he sends his clerks. Each one of which is also an assassin.

Edit: Proof that Carrot is a paladin:
He is immune to the charm effect of the gunne. Vimes himself only resisted the gunnes temptation when Carrot arrived to give him that +4 morale bonus to save.
@Bardess: He may not want to influence people, but he does, just by being himself.
To quote Angua:
"He [Carrot] could lead armies, Angua thought. He really could. Some people have inspired whole countries to great deeds because of the power of their vision. And so could he. Not because he dreams about marching hordes, or world domination, or an empire of a thousand years. Just because he thinks that everyone's really decent underneath and would get along just fine if only they made an effort, and he believes that strongly it burns like a flame that is bigger than he is."
And from Vimes:
"He watched the faces that were watching Carrot. There were the D’regs, and some of the Klatchians who had stayed behind, and Willikins and his reduced company. They were listening.
It was a kind of magic. He told people they were good chaps, and they knew they weren’t good chaps, but the way he told it made them believe it for a while. Here was someone who thought you were a noble and worthy person, and somehow it would be unthinkable to disappoint them. It was a mirror of a speech, reflecting back to you what you wanted to hear. And he meant it all."


Bardess wrote:
The Patrician is a high-level LN Aristocrat/Expert. I don't see him as a PC.

I guess you stopped reading before Night Watch, then. Vetinary is a slayer, or possibly a ninja. He could beat Vimes perception checks when he was a teenager, before he graduated from the Assassins Guild School.

His stealth score is so good, he failed his stealth exams because the examiner couldn't find him to take the exam.


I don't think you guys get what darth_bored is trying to do. It's not a point by point conversion, but more a translation, how these characters would be in a Pathfinder world/in Golarion.

That in mind, Rincewind should not have a wizard level. It's made pretty clear that he never actually passed his wizard exams and doesn't know a single cantrip. He only gets the title of wizzard because of the octavo (GM Fiat) and he is pointedly not allowed to call himself a wizard.

Vimes Diplomacy is way too high. His ability to be diplomatic or even friendly is notoriously low. Take out those skill points and redristribute to other stuff. Or maybe trade a couple of levels from investigator to barbarian. When he lets the Beast out he can kill werewolves with his bare hands. Also he is lacking in weapons. A masterwork crossbow and a sap at the very least.

For Carrot I would vote Paladin. He doesn't have paladin powers in the books but he has the personality of a paladin. But in a PF world just being that much of a good guy is what gives someone paladin powers.


Speedster. With speed based powers.

Or really, just an actual mobile warrior with increased base land speed.


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alexd1976 wrote:
Baronjett wrote:

I would buy a book with all the spells in it, another with all the feats and traits.

As would I, but they would have to re-release that every time new spells and feats came out...

Of course, in the digital age, a PDF document would work just as well, with paid customers getting updated version for free...

Why buy, when a great man has done the job out of love and kindness?


I'm reading the GitP thread and I don't have an account there, so I'm going to crosspost here. Hope it's not too confusing.

I like MilleniaAntares idea of the Panoply of Blades having an ammo count. It could open some really neat interactions, like the Psychic Fortress idea.


Don't suppose you guys would be willing to include some Legs Slot items?
I agree with Ambrosia Slaad on his review. It's wholly uncharted territory and a lot of unused design space. And since Purple Duck already made the necessary references and jokes other parties could do a more serious job.


DHAnubis wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
DHAnubis wrote:
Fair enough, I understand that point entirely. Though I'm not sure how exactly to word it other than maybe something along the lines of "The Psychic Armory does not have enough fine control over the Panoply as to use the Two Weapon Fighting feat to increase the number of blades it can throw." Just worded more elegantly.
Just to be clear, the Two-Weapon Fighting feat doesn't allow you to increase the number of attacks you can make, it just lowers the penalties for the general Two-Weapon Fighting option which is available to everyone. Maybe if the phrasing prevented use of your off-hand for making attacks instead? No off-hand, no TWF.
Maybe something like "The armory can't use weapons, natural attacks or off hand attacks while using Psychokinetic Throw"? Would also prevent someone tying to mix regular weapon attacks with the armory blades. Or godsdamned armor spikes.
Probably the simplest and most effective answer, though I have this image in my head of an Armory wielding a greatsword, swinging twice and dropping an opponent, and then using his last iterative to throw a mindblade from the Panoply at a nearby enemy.

Distill Panoply. Can be taken as early as second level. I'm pretty sure you can mix shots with melee, Panoply Barrage gives you TWF with half the attacks being throws and half being melee.

And I just realized my approach doesn't work cause you should be able to TWf with your melee Daggers from Distill Panoply.

How about going more simple? Mind blades created from panoply of blades do not count as a valid weapon for Two Weapon Fighting. And the Distill Panoply gets a line 'Blades distilled with this talent can be used for two weapon fighting' or 'If the character possesses the Mind Daggers blade skill, he may use Two Weapon Fighting with these daggers'. And change Panoply barrage from 'When making a full attack' to 'As a full round action' so you can't use Panoply barrage while Two Weapon Fighting.

Edit: Ninja'd


CalethosVB wrote:

At first level, you are a Human Sorcerer with 20 Intelligence or Charisma or Wisdom. It doesn't matter which right now, but reduce your available Spell Points by an appropriate amount. When you gain your first level in another class you can choose which stat to use as your casting stat, so pick one you like. Int for more skills, Cha to be a face, and Wisdom for just plain better Will saves. Doesn't matter what Bloodline. Replace your Arcana with a Focus Sphere (free sphere, +1 CL to that sphere). Choose Conjuration. Take 5 points worth of drawbacks to gain a Spell Point per level. At 1st level you gain 8 Spell points (1 from a level of a Caster, 5 from Cha, 1 from replacing your Bloodline spells, 1 additional from taking drawbacks). This is enough to Summon 4 Companions that last all day long. You gained Conjuration for free this time. You take Lingering Companion as your first Companions Form talent. You take Greater Summons as your Sorcerer talent, with both of your first casting class talents as Extra Companion. Use one of your first level feats on Extra Magic Talent (Extra Companion) and the other on Extra Spell Points. All Companions take Lingering Companion as their Form talents. At first level you have 5 2 HD Eidolons. That's 10 hit dice of meat shield that you can put in from if the rest of your party, and if they die, just conure them up tomorrow at full health. 10 Spell Points.

At second level take Incanter with Sphere Specialization (Conjuration). Pick up Channel Energy or a couple Domains while you're here, as you'll never see Incanter feats. You gain 2 additional Spell Points (12 total). With your three magic talents you gain from your first level of Incanter, you take Extra Companion, each with Lingering Summons. You now have 7 CL 4 Eidolons (3 HD each, 21 HD total). Unfortunately, you can only summon 6 of these Companions per day at this level. These Companions have 2 feats each that you can tailor to whatever you wish. One Companion can pick up Basic Magic and Advanced Magic, gaining any...

Can someone please tell me that this is b!%&#+%#? That this is not actually a thing you can do?

Cause I was thinking of getting SoP too, but not if it manages to somehow be more broken than regular vancian casting. This is Simulacrum levels of b&!$#*$&.


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Ssalarn wrote:
DHAnubis wrote:
Fair enough, I understand that point entirely. Though I'm not sure how exactly to word it other than maybe something along the lines of "The Psychic Armory does not have enough fine control over the Panoply as to use the Two Weapon Fighting feat to increase the number of blades it can throw." Just worded more elegantly.
Just to be clear, the Two-Weapon Fighting feat doesn't allow you to increase the number of attacks you can make, it just lowers the penalties for the general Two-Weapon Fighting option which is available to everyone. Maybe if the phrasing prevented use of your off-hand for making attacks instead? No off-hand, no TWF.

Maybe something like "The armory can't use weapons, natural attacks or off hand attacks while using Psychokinetic Throw"? Would also prevent someone trying to mix regular weapon attacks with the armory blades. Or godsdamned armor spikes.

Edit "The concentration required to manifest the Panoply of Blades means the psychic armory can't use weapons, natural attacks or off hand attacks while using Psychokinetic Throw" Maybe add a penalty to concentration checks too, depending on how you want the class to work as a dip for a wis caster.


Brutality Blade is much better. His blade is better than the normal soulknife for most of his career, but it's balanced. Raging Surge is great and seems well balanced for what it costs. And I like Raging Euphoria in it's Wrath Augment version.

For Psychokinetic Throw, maybe make it it's own full round action, like Spell Combat and Flurry of Blows? Not sure if this would still allow Rapid Fire. Maybe keeping the wording as is would be better.


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Psychic Platform allows for double jumping, sticling to the ceiling and skating around. I love it. Every Soulknife I ever make will have it.

Psychic Armory is beautiful. Just a few suggestions for Armory Tactics: the ability to gather the blades in a single giant blade that falls from the sky, or raises from the ground (single throw but with higher base damage, maybe can be combined with Vital Strike); the ability to make the blades pop up from the ground under the enemy, like spikes (area damage + difficult terrain for a round?)


Eh, I'm actually okay with it. It's a cool thing for the soulknife to have, what I don't like is that this archetype is so much better than regular soulknife.


Who the heck thought the Brutality Blade was good like this? A +1 to +5 weapon enhacement is worth way, way more than one feat and throw psychic blade. The chance of psychic enervation is not nearly enough to offset this since it only goes up on the first round of the fight. And it allows you to go above the hardcap of +10 bonus on a magic weapon something that noone else can do.
And Raging Surge is eventually a +4 to attack, damage and all saves. For one blade skill. It should be a trade for four blade skills at least.
The brutality blade is absurdly better than a normal soulknife.
It either needs to be tuned down a lot or lose a lot more of the base soulknife abilities.

Pious Soul seems balanced, but there are some concerns on the vows:
Vow of balance: How much DR does he ignore and how much SR is reduced. And what types of DR are reduced? And how in the heck does one have a neutral alignment equal to the pious soul wisdom modifier? I think the wording here maybe a little out of whack.
Vow of destruction: needs to specify duration. Is it until you sleep or until the foe dies, like smite (which would be way to powerful since you don't need a 18 wis to have that +4 to attack) is it for only one strike (way too weak) or is it something else (tilll the end of the battle, for one minute)?

Augmented Blade seems to have no problems. He loses some of the soulknifes more nifty tricks, but he gets some versatility and he gets to make a golfbag of weapons actually useful. I like it.

I look forward for the Psychic Armory. Archer from F/SN type of stuff is a cool concept. Gilgamesh from the same anime too, just hitting you with all the weapons.

On Blade Skill:
The daze function of Mindflayer can be used even in other forms right? The way it reads right now is a little ambiguous and makes it seem like you can only daze if it's in a whip mode.


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LMPjr007 wrote:
Rednal wrote:
So... ultimately, would I support a joint 3PP campaign? The answer, of course, is "it depends". If it meets enough of my personal criteria, I probably will support it. Otherwise... *Shrugs*
CalethosVB wrote:
To be fair, we're still in the dark about the anticipated size and scope of this project. All we've heard so far is it's got a bunch of bigger 3pp names.

OK since you all have given such great feedback, here is the concept pitch for this 3PP AP, which we are calling Crisis of the World Eater.

(Begin marketing pitch mode)

A god like creature called the World Eater has been consuming worlds after worlds. The World Eater simply devours all life and energy from each and every thing on each and every world it visits. Nothing survives the World Eater and it leaves a world a carcass where nothing again can live on it.The World Eater has been annihilating worlds for over a millennium, with many attempting to stop the advancement. No matter how powerful, no matter how advanced each and every world that stood again the World Eater failed. Nothing has slowed or prevented the consumption of world after world.

Now the World Eater has sent it's executor to your world to evaluate it for it consumption. And like so many worlds before, if the World Eater succeeds, it will leave your world a dead husk. What will you do to stop the World Eater when so many before couldn't? Where will you gain allies for the impossible task? Where will you be taken in finding ways to stop the World Eater? What will you sacrifice to defeat the Wold Eater?

(End marketing pitch mode)

Basically it is Crisis on Infinite Earth PLUS Ultimate Galactuc Trilogy equals Crisis of the World Eater. So if those series interest you, then you should like the idea of this AP concept.

So dimension hopping from NeoExodus, to Thunderscape, to Kaidan, to Midgard, to Cerulean Seas, to Necropunk type of stuff? Could probably be made with all NPCs and sample characters from several 3pp classes and not a single Paizo PF class too.

Yes. That would be awesome. You should have started with that, everybody who supports 3pp will probably support that, it's awesome. It also shows a little from different publishers so you can get a taste of everything, show a highlight from each world and why they would be fun to play, just enough rules on the stat blocks to be playable while making you want to go and buy the class and see what else it can do, it would be great publicity for all involved.

I think I just had a nerdgasm.


Two more:

Quick: A small races oriented bloodline. Halfling, Gnome, Kender, Goblin, Ratfolk, Wayang and even Quicklings. The opposite of the Brute bloodline, focusing on agility, skill and being small.

Chronal: Time related bloodline. For those descended from time dragons, from wizards or scientists that experimented with time travel, or from the misterious Temporal Nobles.

There, I think I've run out of bloodline ideas.


More ideas:

Disgraced: For those with the blood of infamous villains and notorious failures and that wish to redeem their families or create their own legends.

Occular: Beholder themed bloodline. Can include some magic alltering, some improved vision modes, some anti magic. Most powers should give an extra eye.

Phrenic: An Illithid/Githzerai/ Githyanki flavored bloodline. Psionic if you're okay with third party, occult if not.


Unrelated, two ideas for the blood of ____ series:

Champion: for those descended of great athletes and sports champions;

Sage: for those descended from great thinkers, scholars, philosophers and inventors;

And another idea:

Super: for those with a humanoid alien with godlike powers in their family tree. Basically kryptonians others like that. Cross with Martial or Heroic for asgardians and amazons or with Thelassic for atlanteans. Crossblooded with Bizarre makes for a nice martian bloodline if still lacking the telepathy powers..


Maybe allow a choice of getting either an akashic shield or akashic blade or akashic bolt, making it an alternative for the soulblade, soulbolt or mindshield, possibly making it compatible with those archetypes somehow.

Also, I just realized that veil is Erics shield from the D&D cartoon. Are there veils for the others too? Just an yes or no before I spend an hour looking for them.

Edit: I'm guessing the Mind Shield would work as the shield for Chusaders Shield, so the akashic veils are not replacing the mind blade. Are there any similar veils that enhance weapons?


Looking on the bestiaries... I got nothing. Maybe the quicklings but that is not enough for what the bloodline would need. Well, it was worth a try.
If I come up with something I'll pop up again.


Small nitpick: on the Lamyros bloodline, in the Cursed Form power, in the Raptorian option, you only mention the arms becoming wings, but you also gain two talon strikes. Maybe you could add that the feet become those talons when the Scion transforms.

If you're still looking for bloodline ideas how about a speed, agility and quickness based bloodline, for those whose blood gives access to the speed force?


kyrt-ryder wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:

I like the idea that full attacking is your best attack, but I also wish the martials could move and lose only 10%-20% of their damage.

I would like to bake it in every full bab class a class feature that gives some way to move and still deal most of their attacks. They would get these abilities at 11-12 level which is around when they get the third iterative.
The barbarian gets pounce, which is a full attack but demands a straight line with no difficult terrain or obstacle in the way.

Or a good Acrobatics Modifier. [or certain feats]

Quote:
The fighter can full atack as a standard action but loses his last iterative attack. Not a powerful as pounce but more versatile, you could move and full attack, drink a potion and full attack, draw a weapon and full attack, etc. The slayer, cavalier and samurai could also have this ability or something similar.

It's not horrible by any means [that last attack does have rather crappy odds of hitting, though in my own games I houserule that iterative attacks are all -2 to hit rather than a downward spiral of -5's] but it's an unnecessary additional siderule to remember. Pounce is already better than a standard action full attack because it has double the range.

Quote:
The swashbuckler loses his highest iterative but can attack at any point of his movement, either full attacking an enemy or hitting several enemies sround the battlefield. It's the least powerful option but ideally the class would be able to make up for it with other stuff, like parry and counterattack.
If you want to give battlefield mobility to a class, don't take away its best attack to do so.

Well what is your suggestion? Just make full attacking a standard action? Just give everyone pounce? Give an idea so we can judge it's merits.


thejeff wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Icyshadow wrote:
So, has this thread yielded any fruit thus far?

My sarcastic colleagues aside, I'd say it has. I think everyone agrees in principle that martials are unnecessarily hampered by the move-or-full-attack paradigm. There also seems to be general agreement that martials should have better defenses against magic, although the exact form that takes varies considerably.

A lot of people have suggested an enhanced role for followers that doesn't require the Leadership feat (if a 17th level fighter wants to gather an army, let him), and a much enhanced role for skills.

And Arachnofiend is right -- martials should be better at their specialties than a wizard is.

ETA: of course, if you've got other suggestions, it's nowhere near closing time.

I don't really have a problem with the followers/army thing, but I wouldn't want a class to be too reliant on that. It limits a lot of adventure types.
Agreed, and I raised the issue myself earlier. Actually, weren't you the person who suggested raising an army, disguising them as friars, and putting siege engines in their habits as a solution to the challenge?

No. I remember that post, but I didn't write it.

Giving them that kind of ability is tricky, since it's very powerful when it's usable, so it's got to be balanced by not having something else, but that leaves them in trouble in games where it's not appropriate. Maybe as an option or archetype?

Maybe as a feat? Call it Leading an Army, or Leading a guild, or something more generic like Leader, or Leadership, or something. :)

Would Leadership be unbroken if it was two feats one for the followers one for the cohort?


For ideas you could check the Master of Masks PrC from 3.5 Complete Scoundrel, and the Jester class from Dragon Compendium.


First I'll add to the chorus, the ability should be namded One Thousand Faces, or A Thousand Faces, or something. 1000 Faces is weird.

Masque: First what is the point of having a masque if he doesn't have to wear it? Second how is it reformed immediatey, what action does it take or s it a no action? What is the point of it being an object if it can't be stolen or brooken even for a round? Try this wording:
Every Harlequin is attuned to a source of eldritch magical power. At level one he creates a supernatural mask representing his personality or the source of his powers. If this mask is stolen or broken he can recreate it in his hands as a move action. The harlequin must be wearing his masque to gain it's powers.

Thematically why would he only have one masque? He should be able to have several masques known and then be able to switch between them to gain different powers.
You could stiil add as masques: Wind and Fire since you already have ones for earth and water; Maybe a few more based on animals and monsters, including a devil to balance the Seraphin; Everyman or Blank giving you a Disqguise Self that also disguise the fact that you are wearing a Masque; and others based on theater traditions.

The masques themselves seem to be a little stronger than domains but not by that much too sustain a class on itself.

Graceful Strokes: Holy mangled english Batman. Try: "A Harlequin is adept at striking when his enemies are otherwise preocuppied. At second level he gains a +1 (morale? competence?) bonus to hit enemies that are threatened by one of his allies. This bonus increases by +1 at seventh level and every five levels after. This bonus stacks with the bonus from flanking."
Normal language for PF/D&D is 'he gains this bonus at this level and the bonus increases at these levels" Also bonus always need to be typed. Untyped bonus are very powerful abilities. Keep in mind that penalties don't have type but bonus always have.

Sneak Attack, Nimble, Harlequin Discipline and Harlequin Spells are good.

Masquerade Dance: You gain a second Domain. Underwhelming.

Masquerade Host: you gain two more domains. Very underwhellming for a capstone.

Mechanically it could probably be redone as a Slayer archetype, it doesn't rally have anything going on that deserves it's own class.
Thematically the only thing connecting it with harlequins and jesters are the masques and you only have one for most of your career. You can't mock people into doing stupid stuff, or taunt them to give penalties. You can't have several masques and switch between masques to emulate different party roles. You don't have disciplines for clowning around juggling or being an acrobat. Seems more like you just wanted your own take on the magic rogue but you missed a good opportunity to make a kind of full BAB bard, capable of changing his abilities to suit any party role while debuffinh enemies.


I like the idea that full attacking is your best attack, but I also wish the martials could move and lose only 10%-20% of their damage.
I would like to bake it in every full bab class a class feature that gives some way to move and still deal most of their attacks. They would get these abilities at 11-12 level which is around when they get the third iterative.
The barbarian gets pounce, which is a full attack but demands a straight line with no difficult terrain or obstacle in the way. It's also a full round action so it can't be combined with anything else.
The fighter can full atack as a standard action but loses his last iterative attack. Not a powerful as pounce but more versatile, you could move and full attack, drink a potion and full attack, draw a weapon and full attack, etc. The slayer, cavalier and samurai could also have this ability or something similar.
The swashbuckler loses his highest iterative but can attack at any point of hus movement, either full attacking an enemy or hitting several enemies sround the battlefield. It's the least powerful option but ideally the class would be able to make up for it with other stuff, like parry and counterattack. The monk could have something similar too.
The ranger could get an ability based on the 3.5 scout, adding extra damage or some damage riders when he moves. Same with the paladin and bloodrager, just changing the flavor and abilities of the damage riders.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Fergie wrote:


I would just add that higher level martial types should have some ability to do area damage. The most classic is hitting the ground with your hammer or fists like Thor or the Hulk, but there are a variety of options in classic fantasy.

How do you describe this in non comic book terms?

As I said earlier, half the issue is coming up with fluff that won't trigger the anti-anime, anti-wuxia, anti-superhero crowd. When your two icons are literally Avengers, I suspect you've crossed the line.

What would Beowulf, Conan, or Indiana Jones do for area damage? How do you sell the ability?

Some version of the barbarians Groundbreaker rage power. An often forgotten rage power because it's only adjacent squares, and instead of using his CMB to trip it uses a fixed DC 15 ref save. Not a 10+Str+1/2 level, a fixed 15. A better version would use his CMB and do a small amount of damage, with a Improved version giving a longer radius and the ability to make it a cone instead of a radius.


Devant wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
...this article...

Actually this was a great article and beyond making me understand what was going wrong with my thought, it provided answers to many similar considerations. The part about crafting was particularly helpful and the title of the article states exactly what I needed: a claibration of expectations.

Thanks for all responses!

EDIT: Thinking about what led me to have such a distorted view, somewhat shameful, considering I've been storytelling in d20 for the past 15 years, I understand that a big part of it were the demographics rules of cumminity generation in 3rd. They were quite clear on having a couple 8-10 level characters in almost every notable city, rather than them being a one of a generation occurence, along with a host of all levels between 1 and max. The Forgotten Realms campaign setting provided a similar view, if not even more extreme.

It makes sense if you consider that in a magic rich environment more people are born above average and that in a high adventure world there are more chances and paths for talented people to rise above others and become better.

If you compare NPC arrays with point buy and Arrays for PCs and important NPCs you'll notice that in universe these are people who are simply naturally born with higher attributes.

RedDogMT wrote:
After all, a person who has worked all their life as a cabinet maker and eventually becomes a highly skilled master craftsman may not know a lick about swinging a sword around...and let's not even talk about hit points.

A person who has worked all their life as a cabinet maker and eventually becomes a highly skilled master is still a 5th level character. You need 2,400,000 experience points to reach level 20 on the fast track. There are no rules for getting experience from working or even training. Even if the expert cabinet maker gains points for defeating social and skill encounters, if he lives a mundane life he will NEVER find an encounter that gives him the 5,000 thousand xp needed for sixth level much less the 2.4 MILLIONs needed for twenty levels. With normal CR1 and CR1/2 encounters, which would only hapen once on twice a month (a cutpurse trying o get his cp, a hardy bargaining noble) he would take thousands of years to reach high level.

That there is another reason that can explain why the best of our world is level six once a generation but Golarion has hundreds of them in every city. We just don't have high CR challenges to give enough XP in one lifetime to break that barrier. It took the Theory of Relativity encounter to get Albert Einstein to sixth level. It took most of WW2 to make badass like Simo Hayha and Audie Murphy.


A few things:
1- You don't need a 20 level expert to get a +25 Knowledge bonus. A 10 level one with Knowledge(history) as a class skill, the feats Skill Focus Knowledge(history) and Scholar: Knowledge(history) and some other Knowledge, and an int of 14 has +25 Knowlegde History bonus. Higher if he puts more points in int. So you started from a flawed proposition.
2- If, somehow, you get an expert to twenty level without a single fight in his life (practically impossible with the way experience works), he probalby has read enough health and fitness books and martial arts manuals that he can wipe out most tenth level fighters. a 20th level anything is a demi-god and the demi-god of historians being able to beat the barely superhuman fighter is something that should be able to happen.
3- You're not accounting for the combat feats and class abilities the fighter has. Like a +3 from weapon training or a probable weapon focus feat, and also the fighter will have a much higher strenght score since PCs have way more points to buy attributes than NPCs. A fifteen level fighter will have a much higher BAB than a 20 level expert. You cannot claim to be sistematic while ignoring huge swats of the system.
4- Why in the name of Nethys would you need a +25 bonus to knowledge? The highest DC you can get on a Knowledge(history) check is 30, and that is for something absurdly ancient and obscure like the name of a minor azlantean noble from before the starstone fell. You can reach that with a +20 bonus and taking 10.


Lindley Court wrote:
As a result of some leet budgeting skills, I've upped my pledge from $50 to $500. What do I win?

My vote for any public office election you want. With that level of leet budgeting skills, you could probably save the economy.


Little Red Goblin Games wrote:

sepik121 wrote:

I'm a little bummed because I don't think the architect class is gonna happen via the KS, but I'd still love to actually see that class. I loved playing dungeon defenders and I would be really interested to actually have a tower defense style character in game.

But that said, the update showcasing some of the art plus the open documents for review makes me really excited for this. I've pitched in already, and even upped the pledge to 25 bucks. Can't wait!

Well, we are REALLY close to goal (like $89 at the time of posting) so it is TOTALLY within the realm of possibility that we will hit the first stretch goal.

If we don't hit it, I personally love that class, so there is a very good chance that it will be released solo or as part of something else in the future.

Maybe the start of a Gonzo 3, or the LRGG take on a technology guide with technology based classes?


Ciaran Barnes wrote:
I was working on a speed-based class, that I called the dynamo. Its an unfinished project - one where I'm struggling to get the pictures in my head out onto the page. It can be difficult stretching a thin concept out to 20 levels. You're welcome to take a look and see if it gives you any ideas.

Don't remember if there ws a thread for this one, but here is some comments:

Spoiler:
Celerity: Free action +1 bonus to all dice rolls that lasts for most of a fight? No. That is too much.
Unerring Action: Why spend a point for something that you can gain permanently with a feat? Give it a different bonus like miss chance or make it a dodge bonus against all attacks till the beginning of your next turn.
Swift Attack and Extra Action: This ones are really nice.
Dash: That is pretty bad. If movement is going to be your schtick, it should start as good as the barbarians +10 feet at level one and end better than the monks +60 at level 18. Also allowing someone to moving 55ft as a non action is at the same time to much and underwhelming. Maybe include an option on Celerity to spend a point and do a second 5ft step or do a 10ft and later 15ft step.
Flurry: Switch the damage bonus to 7th, attack bonuses are much better than damage bonus. Maybe up the attack bonus to 15th and at 11th he can forgo flurry and gain Rapid Attack from the Mobile Fighter.
Uncanny Abilities:
Deflect Arrows: Add that he can spend celerity points to deflect more projectiles in one round. Also give Snatch Arrows if he is higher than 10 level
The Recovery Line and Dodge Ray are awesome.
Pounce: Clarify if this works with Flurry. Probably shouldn't.
Uncanny Might and Uncanny Endurance don't make any thematic sense with the rest of the class. I can see why you would want to maintain that symmetry but they don't mesh with everything else.
Everything else is pretty good.

Capt Darling wrote:

I would never have made dex to damage a thing. I would have given the class abillities that could do other things that is assosiatet to dex and speed like evade, riposte, accuracy and stuff like that. Allowing dex to be used as str is just lazy design. IMOP.

Not allowing a melee class to do any damage is terrible design, forcing a class about speed and dexterity to have str 16 and dex 12 to function is even worse. Dex to damage should be at least a talent you can take at second level.


Dex to damage definetly. At level one.
Increases to base speed, starting at level one and ending up higher than the monk.
Give Run as a bonus feat early on, cause nobody is going to waste a feat on it.
Alluria Publishings Marauder, which has the same concept, has a list of bonus feats like Spring Attack and Lunge and gains bonus damage when using those feats. It's a little weird but works.
Better yet, you can use the mechanic from 3.5 Scout and give an attack and damage bonus whenever the character moves more than 10 feet in a round. If you use this don't give them pounce.
DO NOT make them immune to AoOs from movement. One of the best things a speedster could do for the party is run a lap around the battlefield and draw the AoOs so the others can move, cast or do other stuff without worrying about AoOs.
DO give them Mobility, Wind Stance, Lightining Stance and abilities that stack and improve upon them. Or maybe just the abilities and the players can get the feats if they want. Make so the class can draw AoOs and then laugh at their failure. If you give them talents a nice talent would be forcing the enemies to use their AoOs even if they know they can't hit or want to save them for the wizard who is casting. Maybe give it a Will save to make it balanced.
Another idea for an ability would be getting a bonus on some maneuvers if you move before them, like a +1 to CMB for every ten feet to Bullrush, Overrun, Drag and Trip. To represent add your momentum to a tackle or something like that. Maybe add Sunder with a talent. Maybe add the maneuver as a rider when you charge or Spring Attack
A bonus to initiative is not necessary, since it's a dex based clas but it can be flavorful. Maybe also an ability like the divination wizard so at high levels you always roll 20 on initiative checks. If this a Flash type of class he should be able to tie with a divination wizard.
What else... Good Ref save, Evasion either always on maybe only if you moved at least ten feet on the round before, or maybe you can spend an immediate action to take a five foot step and gain Evasion for a round.
Give it 4 or 6 skill points per level. This class seems set for being a scout and going ahead stealthted or checking for traps. Maybe some talent or archetype to add trapfinding and danger sense.
Maybe an ability to take more than one 5ft step a round or take 10ft step instead, maybe x/day or fueled by a point pool.

This is for a more or less mundane class, like the fighter or rogue. If it goes more supernatural like the barbarian or ranger we can give it some true speedster powers:
-Gain Fast Healin and later Regeneration for a few rounds a day, based on quick metabolism
-X/day use your Reflexes instead of Fort or Will, being so quick you dodge the spell, or having a quick metabolism eats the poison or disease.
-Gain the ability to run on walls and ceilings, and on top of water or other liquids, When doing a full-round movement, running, charging or withdrawing.
-Create a sonic blast as part of your movement, this blast has a ten feet radius and originates form any one square you pass during your movement. It deals 1d6 sonic damage +1d6 for five levels and deafens for one round. A Fort save halves the damage and negates the deaf condition.
-Leave a wind wall in the squares you've passed that lasts for one round.
-Spend a standard action after moving to gain the benefits of Haste, Blur or Mirror Image for a number of rounds equal to your dex modifier
-Run for a full-round to add a lot of damage and some riders to your next attack, stacks with the bonus damage if you charge or move before attacking in the next round. For that special round the world, speed of light, super punch Flash can sometimes do.


Fixing Dual Identity:

The vigilante has a vigilante identity and a social identity. At first level he chooses which one is the real one, that identity has his real alignment. He can pick any aligment for his other identity. Effects that detect or work based on aligment use the aligment of the identity he is using. If he is subjected to an effect that would alter his alignment it affects the aligment of his real identity. The vigilante only fulfills the alignment prerequisites for feats, classes, or worshipping a god if both identities fulfill that prerequisite. For example a vigilante can only multiclass with paladin if both his idetitie are LG, but he can multiclass as cleric of Iomedae if his vigilante identity is LN and is social persona is NG.
When the vigilante is in his vigilante identity, it does not count as a disguise, and any attempts to see trough it with Perception or Sense Motive automatically fail. The vigilante and social identities are treated as two separate creatures for the purposes of knowledge checks, diplomacy checks to gather information, and all divination spells, such as Legend Lore and Commune. Attempts to scry or otherwise locate one identity only work when the vigilante is in that identity, if he is in a different idenitty they fail as if he had succeed on his save roll.
The vigilante loses all bonuses from this ability against anyone that knows the connection of his two identities, such as if they see him change, are told by the vigilante or by someone with concrete proof and evidences, or see the vigilante use any vigilante identity talents while in his social identity.

There we go. Closes all the loopholes, is powerfull enough to be better than a normal disguise focused class, and allows you to decide if it's Bruce Wayne or Batman that is the mask.


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Would it be better if they got full six level casting as the base ability and the base abilities of the Avenger and Stalker were buffed to match, or would that be too powerfull?
What if they had 4th level casting like paladins and rangers, but modified so they start casting at first level instead of fourth?


The main problem remains the super long time needed for Dual Identity.
Maybe a talent that allows you to use the ability of your vigilante identity without your disguise, but people get a huge bonus to find out about your secret identity. Lesse:

Eschew Secrecy: You can spend a full round action changing your mentality from your social identity to your vigilante identity. In this mindset you can use the abilities of your vigilante identity even without the disguise. Anyone that sees you, including any enemies you fight with, get a sense motive check as a free action every round they see you against a DC of 10+half your level+your charisma modifier to connect your social identity with your vigilante identity.

There we go. Take a moment to make sure you really want to do this, and if you're sure it's worth the risk you can kick ass even as Bruce Wayne. The mooks probably have really low Sense Motive, but you should be worried, what if one of them rolls a twenty. But try this in front of a cop or worse the Joker and you secret is busted. Using, stelth, invisibility or smoke bombs would keep your identity secret, and is what Batman or Daredevil would try if they had to fight in civilian disguise.


Maybe have the main class be a transformation (quick change but most of your power is locked in your vigilante persona) and then have a Badass Normal archetype (trade a slower change for having access to most of your abilities even in your social identity). A Super humanoid archetype (Quick change, keeps most of his powers in social identity) could be possible but it would hae to trade in other stuff, like Many Guises, Loyal Aid and all the Appearance abilities.

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