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So, we can agree that there is a single build with a single archetype, pretty much fixed Rage Power and Feat selections, with minmaxed cha to the toilet, and with only three possible races, that can outshine the BR?
Only one single cookie-cutter build can compete with the BR. And that shows the BR doesn't obsolete the Barbarian how again?
Well yeah, if you can't see how 1d8+1d6(energy) is better than 1d6, than there is no way I can explain it better.
And what happened to
Eh. Their spell list isn't strong on utility. Maybe post a build? I'll modify it just enough to be an Invulnerable Rager Barbarian and we can do a side-by-side comparison and see which does better.
"Modify it just a little" These words, I don't think they mean what you think they mean :)
And the defensive advantages of the build are not to be overstated. If bothhit each other three times for average damage, rounding up, the Bloodrager takes 110 pts of damage (actually 122 due to Witch Hunter, but that's situational) and has 50 HP left (actually 38), while the Barbarian takes 139 after DR and has 55 HP left. Now, that's still slightly in the Bloodrager's favor (unless we count Witch Hunter)...but not a lot, and then there are the vastly better saves.
Don't forget to account for my Spirit Slam, 6 damage not negated by DR or energy resistance, and for the AoO you eat for getting in reach to trade blows with me. I only get the one but I do get it. Also CAGM would increase your normal DPR, but it does squat against, say, reach users that can five foot step before attacking making it so you don't even threaten with you AoOs. Even with CAGM, this Bloodrager would whup your Barbarian in a one on one match.
The Barbarian build still outperforms that Bloodrager even if he were to grab, say, Beast Totem and Superstition. The Bloodrager lacks the Rage Powers to grab as many of the good ones as the Barbarian can.
I'm sorry, but who are you outperforming? You got better saves, but only 2/3 of the DPR, (actually a little less since you keep excluding my Spirit Slam) my other defenses are slightly better (20% miss chance and fast healing 3, versus 2 more AC and DR6/-), and I got better utility, (Fly, Glitterdust, Intimidate and Spellcraft versus Acrobatics and Survival) and more money left over after the big six. You would only outperform with CAGM.Also, sure you can get a couple of casters and a prep round to grab Enlarge Person and Haste, but then I get a couple of casters and a prep round toget Haste, Moment of Greatness, and my own Brow Gasher on me. The BR is straight up better than the Barbarian at getting buffed.
I'll try to make the "All Rage Powers" Bloodrager build again monday see if I can do it a little better.
I was going to make a poorly maximised build trying to get as many rage powes as possible but by Undone suggestion I'm going to just make a DPR build.
20ptb, no traits, 12th level
Half-Orc Abyssal Spelleater Primalist Bloodrager 12
Str24 Dex10 Con15 Int10 Wis10 Cha18
FCB: 6 extra rounds of bloodrage, +6 HP
01 Power Attack, Claws
Normal: Greataxe +22/+17/+12 1d12+11 x3
Spells per day:
Edit: Forgot to put the CMB and CMD.
I'll do it, tomorrow morning, must sleep first.
And some are. A couple of elemental resistances for two rage powes? Yes, please.
Take away DR and uncanny dodge. There, the Barbarian is straight up better at tanking.
Forget Primalist, just the bloodrager bloodlines are enough to upset the barbarian. Besides CAGM, Pounce, Superstition and Spell Sunde what can compare to:
And yeah, they're 'only' while raging, but a mid-level bloodrager can rage every round of every battle just like a barbarian can.
And let's not forget they also get extra feats. Free Power Attack if you can wait to get it at sixth level, free Improved Manuers, free Iron Will and free Improved Initiative are all on the menu.
And at 11th level he can free action cast a self buff when he begins a rage, altering the duration to as long as raging. Choices include Shield(because the AC penalty from Rage is so unfair), Protection from Alignment, Enlarge Person, Bulls Strenght(who needs belts?) and Mirror Image(who needs armor?).
Ok, putting it all together we get something like this:
Human MoMS Monk2/Brawler 18, 20ptb
str18 dex14 con14 int10 wis10 cha10 OR
01 (MoMS) Power Attack; bonus: Pummeling Style; Bonus Combat Expertise
What do you guys think?
To be fair... SR is awful for player characters. It'll hurt you more often than it'll help you.
Until 14th level you just have to do the same as a Superstitious Barbarian and delay to get your buffs before raging. Between 14th and 16th you have more of a problem but you have enough wealth to buy some utility items and had 14 levels to prepare. At 16th level you gain Form of the Dragon, giving you access to fly, swim, burrow, darkvision and resitance to any element you might need.
Chengar Qordath wrote:
Here's a nifty "spells are for the weak" blodrager build: Untouchable Primalist Bloodrager with the Arcane bloodline, trade Arcane Bloodage at fourth for Superstition and Witch Hunter, Trade Caster Scourge at twelve for Spellsunder and Eater of Magic. Use your bonus feat for Disruptive, Improved Initiatie, Iron Will, Spellbreaker and Combat Reflexes, in whichever order you want. Watch as anything with casting cries as your stupid high saves and spell resistance and ability to reroll failed saves make you as close as immune to magic as the game allows, while breaking enemy spells and having extra damage against casters and being always hasted. Might change Eater of Magic for Ghost Rager if you consider the bonus to touch AC is better than rerolling saves or if you can get rerolls from somewhere else.
Bard definetly, but I'm not sure about Archaeologist. He did
Spoiler:Also Ronan is an obvious Fighter. He wears full plate, he has a crappy Will save...
use a Fascinate Bardic Performance on Ronan.
Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Power Attack and Dodge should be the first four feats for a Brawler focusng on Martial Flexibility, with one or more picks of Extra Martial Training and Weapon Focus with a favored weapon or two, probably Unarmed Strike, and Critical Focus at 9. Since they gain Improved Unarmed Strike from class this allows them to pick nearly any combat feat chain possible.
Also, Endurance is not a combat feat, so you can't take it with Martial Flexibility. If you want to use combos like that you would have to spend a feat on Endurance. Diehard isn't a combat feat either so you can't grab it when necessary even if you take Endurance.
Like PFS has any semblance with RAW, RAI or balanced...
My knee jerk reaction is why would anyone play a barbarian instead of an untouchable primalist bloodrager, except maybe for the Invulnerable Rager archetype. You lose Trap Sense for Spell Resistance, and trade ten rage powers for ten rage powers +the first level bloodline power +five feats. They've Rogued the Barbarian. Seriously.
Combination Strike: [teamwork feat]
Benefit: After a sucessful attack against an enemy you can spend a use of this feat as a swift action at the end of your turn to call a combination attack against that enemy. You then can choose to give a +1 circumstance bonus to attack or a +2 circumstance bonus to damage to any allies that have this feat and attack the same enemy before the beginning of your next turn.
Special: You can buy this feat multiple times, each time you gain +3 uses of this feat. If you have an Initiator level you gain an exta use of this feat and gain +4 uses instead of +3 for buying it multiple times. If you grant this feat to allies, using the Cavaliers Tactician ability or something similar, you and the allies you grant this feat share the number of uses you have left, if you grant this feat to two allies and all three of you use Combination attck on the same round you spend all the uses of Combination Attack you have.
After watching the new RWBY episode I wanted a feat that allowed a party of martials to do cool combos. So I made this. What do you guys think? Too clunky? Any ways that I can word it better? Too powerful? Should I put more prerequisites? Constructive criticism welcomed.
Lord Mhoram wrote:
I like this idea. Let me combine this with some things from my random ideas folder:
Trained By a Master: BAB+11, At least +1 armor, shield or weapon enhancement bonus bought as inherent bonus.
[b]New Rogue Talent[b]
Whew. I just hammered this out in one sitting. What do you guys think? Worth calculating the table and finishing up the feats?
Man, if only they had a period of time before releasing a hardcover book of rules where they could showcase some of the more problematic or anticipated rules and then have the player base run all the mathemathical testing and rule stressing and even some wordproofing for free, pointing out defects before they hit print. Some sort of playtest where they could listen to the players feedback... Like Dreamscarred Press does! Would be much better than just showing a samll part of the book and then just ignoring any feedback they disagree with. Imagine, if the Swashbuckler had been properly playtested they could have something different than the hot mess which is Charmed Life.
And Kobold Press managed it too.
The feat broke him so hard, it broke his blue screen. That there is some weapons grade brain breaker.
Or if you're a ranger, fighter or slayer, you can get the Shield Master feat, and just have a +5 shield , or klar in this case, and have that apply to both your AC and your attack/damage. If you're going for Thunder and Fang it's better with Ranger and Slayer, since you can skip the prereqs for Shield Master since Improved Shield Bash is redundant once you have Thunder and Fang.
Funny enough I already have one of each in my character fold (and a shaman, bloodrager, brawler and swashbuckler), This sunday when I finally get back to the group, can I use one of them instead of the paladin?
K177Y C47 wrote:
I think the slayer caught him mid sentence.That's what you get for divulging his secr
Mark Seifter wrote:
See there is the problem: You are confusing what the player can do, the players narrative power, with what the class can do, with the narrative power of the class. The player can decide to be an insufferable git and murderhobo the important NPCs or ignore the quests. But the casting classes have an ability to affect the story that the martial ones just don't have. The sorcerer is better at making the party arrive somewhere, but the fighter is not in any way better at killing a NPC they should work with. In fact if the player wants to kill a NPC the caster is probably better, because the martial can only hit it with weapons or maybe poison him, while the caster can teleport him to a volcano, call lighting on his head, turn him into a statue shatter the statue and use the pieces as a work of modern art, dominate him into picking a fight with a martial, make him drown on land, or a dozen other things. The martial can only kill someone, the caster can do it in ways people won't even know what happened to him for years.
Book of Collective Influence 2: New archetypes for all classes, new specialties, enlightenments and other options for every class and maybe even more new classes?
Ignore the combobreakers!
Start with Grollubs suggestion, then use this:
I wish that you will transfom my body to it's dwarven form, exactlry as it was before I was mortally wounded in the day XX of YY month and year ZZZZ, while keeping my mind, memories, knowledge and experience as they are right now, without altering them.
Both. Regular mosquitoes don't have levels, and you would need a solid cloud of mosquitoes to even make a swarm. Also, if the mosquitoes were intelligent enough to make sneak attacks, they wouldn't want to kill you, they can harvest way more blood by keeping you alive. They would protect you as long as you allowed them to drink from you.
So you are saying a mantis shrimp with sneak attack would be worse?
Imagine that on your eye, your genitalia, or dead center on a superficial artery.
Ecaterina Ducaird wrote:
What consolation? The rat just covered his wounded vulnerables with stomach acid and half digested food. He'll probably get some new disease in his vulnerables from that. At this point I'm just feeling sorry for the poor ogre :)
Some favorite quotes:
Harry: Because I'm too stubborn to die. And Thomas is too pretty to die. And you aren't going to die, Butters, because tomorrow is Oktoberfest and polka will never die!
Murphy: You're enjoying this. You just love to dance around questions and spring surprises when you know something the rest of us don't.
Mysterious Stranger/Bard goes really well for a gunslinger card sharp/ conman, like Bret Maverick or Ezra Standish.
It's a dude.Mainstream comics, movies and television hold the same principle: The females of a humanoid species have human secondary characteristics. At the very least breasts. It serves both as source of fanservice and because all mainstream companies believe the audience to be stupid. Things like you said would never happen in Marvel.
Well, Demonreach was built by Merlin... Maybe part of it was bringing Avalon from England. But I don't think Arthur would believe he deserves being imprisoned and awake there. I would guess Merlin or if a knight, Lancelot, either of which could feel they deserve it for not protecting/bringing ruin to Camelot.
Then again it could be a complete curveball, Butcher is good at those.
I mean all of the fans I know, especially the fic writers, thought that the parasite was Lash reborn somehow. It beign their daughter was really surprising.
Chris Mortika wrote:
I'm not saying that Uriel should have assisted Harry. I'm saying he could have done so, and telling Harry that there was nothing he could do was not true.
With Harry, he had the ability to do it, sure, but the rules did not allow him to do it. He literally couldn't, by Gods own Law, do it. Never mind what Harry could do with his help and the consequences of that. Breaking the Laws not only allows the Enemy to reply in kind, it risks him falling. So when he said he couldn't do anything he wasn't lying.With Michael
he only could give his power because of a loophole in the system on the same level of "the rules don't say a character with the dead condition can't take actions". He's just lucky the DM was on his side on that one.
Also if you can't trust your own paladin to not fall for a couple of hours why even choose him? Michael was chosen by an omniscient God for being a good man, Uriel can trust him to be a good man, or at the very least trust that God is good at choosing people.
Wow! You got everything so wrong, I'm not sure you even read the Core rulebook.
Ok, Wizard and Sorcerer can suck at early levels if you completely suck at selecting spells, but that is not fault of the class or GM it's yours for being dumb. Sleep and Color Spray and whatever you want for flavor. Done.
Rogue can't kill anything in a sinlge attack after level 3, maybe 4, except some very optimized builds.
You know who can be just as good as the rogue at freeing the group from a jail cell? The Ranger. Forget favored enemy, favored terain: urban makes you better at being stealthy than the rogue could ever hope to be. And even without favored enemy they still have a wolf to do some extra damage, get some feats earlier than the fighter, and has some really nice spells (lead blades, longstrider, etc.)
Hardly anyithng can kill a paladin. Fullstop. Not just evil, neutral, lawful, chaotic and even good would have a hard time killing this guy. Also even when not fighting evil he has divine bnd to make his weapon better than what the fighter could buy, and he has spells. Anyone that thinks a fighter is the best in that door scenrio of yours has never seem a pally with Deadly Juggernaut, Weapon of Awe and Righteous Vigor going.
Wizards are going to fear charging quivering palms as soon as monks learn to fly. Quivering Palm and Stunning Fist are worthless against melee enemies because the save is just too low. Thta SR is actually a bad class feature since it stops the monk from receiving beneficial buffs. The monk also has abilities like slow fall (worse than a first level spell) and Tongue of the Sun and Moon (worse than a second level spell). He does have some good archetypes tough.
Fighters are very good at DPR noone against that. But they're not so good that a paladin, barbarian or ranger, even with all their resources spent, couldn't do the exact same thing. And if there is a single goblin shaman in that endless horde, the fighter would be the worst to have in that place, since he has the worst chance of resisting mindcontrol.
Druids are not as good at spells as a wizard but that is still better than not being a level 9 spellcaster. Also don't forget the animal companion. You know who else can stand in a doorway and kill thousands of goblins? A buffed up tiger.
Bard sucks at everything except singing? In 3.5 maybe, but not in PF anymore. PF bard outrogues the rogue. He is as good at skills and he has spells to back it up. The rogue has a little more damage but not enough to kill enemies before they sound an alarm, unless the enemies are very low level, in which case even the wizard could probably kill then in a single round.
Barbarians only run out of rage in the early levels. At high levels he has more rage rounds than he knows what to do with. And even without rage the barbarian is only a little worse at DPR than the fighter. Not a significant enough difference to really make the fighter shine.
Notice that the prophecy says "his home". Not the mountains, not the kingdom, not the city, not the neighborhood. It could mean any of those things just as easily as it could mean his actual house. Prophecies can be like that. For all the high priest knew, Durkon stepping a foot inside his house might trigger an earthquake or open a portal to hell or something. His options were throw him onto jail, kill him or exile him. And the first two are unpalatable to a Good character. Demolishing his house would only make sure the prophecy meant the entire city and/or kingdom as his "home".
Ross Byers wrote:
Yes, because being mechanicaly better makes you incapable of making a character interesting and fun to roleplay. You can't just pick an arcanist and use the same fluff you would have for the sorceror.I mean, I could, but I'm just better like that.
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Hear that woosh sound? That was just a bird. The joke went so far over your head it didn't even make a sound.
I believe the super serum gave him the ability to telekinetically control round mettalic objects. I've noticed how in some comics/cartoons he can do shield stunts with trashcan lids and hubcaps when someone takes his shield away.
Alexandros Satorum wrote:
Don't have the book, but so far the three talents spoilered in this thread include: Not doing sneak attack damage when you could effectively making an enemy live longer; Dropping prone between two flanking enemies so they can hit you better; And adding Dex to damage IF you beat a monsters CMD, itself a losing preposition, using a skill you can't even put points into until late game. So far apparently rogue talents have reached a new low.
You guys are being decidedly un-awesome and will be black-balled from the fighters guild.
That is not even a punishment. Fighter guilds are all lame-o. Now the barbarian guild, those guys Those guys know how to party. Pure heavy metal.
And barbarians are just better than fighters. At everything.
I would increase their power. High level skills hould be magic like. A character higly focused on a skill should do things that amze even the magic users. Monks should be able to run on the ceiling and on top of water, rangers should be able to track a flying enemy by how the air was displaced in it's wake, rogues should be able to steal the clothes someone is wearing without being noticed. No epic rules, no mythic rules. Those are just things you should be able to do when you have a +40 on your skill.
That is way too overcomplicated, on top of a system that is, itself, already complicated. Whenever possible use KISS, Keep It Simple Son.
I vote for gaining 7 stances. Doesn't really increase power, just versatility