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Umbranus's page

3,947 posts (4,266 including aliases). 3 reviews. 2 lists. No wishlists. 4 aliases.


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I think you could handle this topic like the following:

1) You have a hen that lays eggs. The eggs do not come from nothing they come from the hen. And they have a certain value. Now you can add other ingredients and use profession cook or craft cooking to turn the egg into something more valuable: A meal.

2) You have a venomous animal that gives off venom. The venom does not come from nothing it comes from the venomous creature. It has a certain value. Now you can add other ingredients and use craft poison or craft alchemy to turn the venom into something more valuable: A poison.

How much the egg or the venom is worth is up to the GM as I can't find either on one of the tables. I guess an egg will not be worth more than a chicken is and a live chicken costs 2cp. How much a dose of venom is worth I have no idea. But a viper costs 5gp and a house centipede costs 1cp.
Sadly there is no viper poison and the centipede poison is from the small one, not the tiny one which is purchasable and usable as a familiar.

On the other hand a dose of wolfsbane (medicinal herb) costs 5sp while a dose of wolfsbane poison costs 500gp.

Thanael wrote:

Umbranus where are you from, Europe?

The night of the walking dead is a classical Ravenloft module with a Zombie Horde in the Bayou. The 2e version was available for free on WotC site loong ago. And there's bound to be some conversions somewhere.

PS: I have a spare copy for sale btw ;-)

Yes, I am from europe, germany to be exact. But I mention it seldome online because with some people "our" reputation is not the best for what our granparents or great grandparents did.

Perhaps I'll take a look for this Ravenloft module but I guess I will just write my own adventure. Nothing fancy, just a little town overrun by undead.

The base setting will be: the PCs have been in some dungeon for some days. And when they reach the nearby town, longing for some drinks and a bed they realize that death has claimed the community.

The ghoul sounds good. But for what I have in mind I think I'd have to drop the paralysis and up the disease some.

Mainly slow (with staggered) but perhaps some few fast ones later on. The TPK stuff looks nice at first glance but having no credit card and not using paypal makes it impossible for me to buy stuff from the paizo store. I usually buy RPG books via amazon because they allow payment via direct debit. (at least I think that is what it is called in English).

I'll reread the ghoul.

Thanks for your input.

When multiple foes grapple every one after the first gives a bonus of +2. So 6 Zombies grappling a fighter would give one of them +10 to grapple. And while grappling you can make a grapple check to deal damage. So even small groups of zombies would result in a high chance of bitten fighter every round. But single zombies should not pose a problem to an armed martial. It's about staying away from large groups.

That arcane casters can wreck havoc with groups of zombies is possible but depends on the HP you give them. Targeted attacks can be made vs. the head at -4, area attacks can't.

What I had in mind was having the PCs start at third level (1 more feat for nice stuff)

What I'm not sure about is what to do with animal companions and the like. Can they be infected? If not they could become stronger in such a game.

Since Halloween is coming closer and I am a big zombie flick fan I thought about GMing a zombie game in PF.
The zombies I have in mind are not the D&D zombies but those that infect you 100% of the time with a bite. Especially I had the walking dead ones in mind (the standard biters)

Ideas I had in mind on how to convert them to PF was the following:
- Bite attack that contracts zombie disease but can only be used on grappled foes or whenever a sneak attack would be possible.

- zombie plague: bite; save: No initial save, Fort 15 ongoing; onset 1d4 hours; frequency 1/hour; effect 1 Con, cure 5 consecutive saves. Anyone who dies while infected or has con damage equal to his con value rises as a zombie in 2d6x10 minutes.

- no cure disease

- anyone who survives the zombie plague becomes a carrier for the disease and can infect others through bodily fluids. (bite, intense kiss, blood donation etc.)

- Successful attacks have a chance to daze the zombie

- successful hits to the head (made at -4 to hit) kill the zombie if they deal at least 10 damage.

- Have at least one backup pc ready this is no stroll in the park.

What do you think about this?

shroudb wrote:

What I don't understand is what happens when you switch abilities.

You have p.e.
use Str INSTEAD of Dex
And add Str.

Do you add twice the str? Or once?

Following the FAQ: Once. That seems to be the main point of the FAQ.

Roughrider fighter could be a good alternative to sohei you could take a look at, too. And if you want to use teamwork feats the divine huntsman inquisitor might be good to give the mount the teamwork feats, too. Apart from that it sounds like an interesting concept.

You should ask your GM if you count as adjacent while using swarming. If so you can use paired opportunist and outflank at the same time as hunters and divine huntsmen can with their pets. That means if one crits the other gets an AoO with a bonus and if one gets an AoO the other one gets one, too. That means if both go for high crit chances and have combat reflexes they can get a lot of AoOs through criting alone.

graystone wrote:
How do I parse what was the intended target and what isn't? To me an Oracle that has the mystery "side Step secret" and multi-classes into paladin to gain divine grace seems as valid as an undead paladin getting to add twice but one is intentional and the other is unintentional...

That's the point.

What was intended and what wasn't? And why was it intended for the stuff it was?
Is it intended that a shaman with the lore spirit and the benefit of wisdom hex who multiclasses into inquisitor gets no benefit from monster lore because he already gets wis to knowledge skills instead of int?

Or is it intended that kirin strike doesn't seem to combine with any other way of adding int to damage, any more? Be it focused shot, alchemist bombs or the wood wizard's Splintered Spear. Focused shot, the kirin line and the school power are all by themselves weak enough that I would not worry at all about someone combining them.

Would it not have been easier and less collateral to just FAQ the offenders? Spelling them out specifically?

Edit: For me the easiest ruling would be that base stat (or replacement stat) + bonus stat always stacks but bonus stat + bonus stat would not. But there seem to be such combinations that are seen as too strong. Why ever that is the case, when different base stat + bonus stat DOES stack.

For example turning intimidate into a wis based skill via shared skill (possessed shaman) and then adding strength via intimidating prowess works but turning knowledge the planes into a wis skill and then adding wis does not work. Why? Seems arbitrary.

As it only applies to weapons held in the hands it should not work with thrown weapons.

Edited it now. I meant dragon ferocity.

You have to cackle the same turn you use evil eye for it to last.

Not sure if someone stated them but ablative armor and timely inspiration.

The harvester trait implies that profession(tanner) or profession (trapper) is applicable for the task.


You were trained to harvest all parts of an animal with care and precision.
Benefits: You gain a +1 trait bonus on Profession (tanner) or Profession (trapper) checks, and you may make these checks as if you were trained in the skill even if you have no ranks. Additionally, you do not risk poisoning yourself whenever you handle or apply poison taken from a venomous creature.

I say it implies because it gives a bonus to these skills and allows you to harvest venom.
An alchemist would not need the trait because he has poison use and can't accidentally poison himself.

I wanted to suggest something similar to Kazaan:

Be a ranger or a slayer to get TWF without dex. Take the orc double axe and orc weapon expertise. For the feat take the option to deal 1 point of nonlethal with every hit in addition to the normal damage. Add Enforcer.
Now you have a high strength and by that high damage TWF user who can make opponents shaken by hitting them.
Because you only deal 1 point of nonlethal you do not lose too much if enemies are immune to it or get healed.

Alternate Idea:
Take the trait to use intimidate with int and raise int a little. With the PB of 25 you can easily afford a 14 pre racial mods.
Take intimidating prowess, hurtful and shocking bellow.
Have a high perception and/or an ability to always act in surprise rounds.

Now in a surprise round you can intimidate someone as a free action. If you intimidate someone you can attack him. That means that you can charge an enemy, including the attack, intimidate him, hit him. All in one surprise round. Any you can do that with every melee class with every melee weapon.

If you can add cornugon smash you can charge one foe and intimidate him as a free action if you hit. If that succeeds you can hit him again. Now you can use the free action from hurtful to intimidate another foe within reach and attack him, too if you are successful. That's three attacks at full bab (at least 1 with charge bonus).

Sure, those intimidate builds work best with a twohanded weapon (because it deals more damage per hit) but you don't have to use one.

It lacks rules but there is a trait that allows you to handle and apply poison taken from a venomous creature.


You were trained to harvest all parts of an animal with care and precision.

Benefits: You gain a +1 trait bonus on Profession (tanner) or Profession (trapper) checks, and you may make these checks as if you were trained in the skill even if you have no ranks. Additionally, you do not risk poisoning yourself whenever you handle or apply poison taken from a venomous creature.

While the trait doesn't really state it I would assume that it allows you to use venom (as poison) on your weapon. Most likely they assumed taking it from a dead creature but why not allow it from a life one?

blahpers wrote:
Multiattack does not add attacks to an animal companion who already has three natural attacks; it merely reduces the secondary attack penalties. (If the companion's attacks are all primary, the ability is useless.) NPC code has screwed up more than once.

What would be possible with a big cat companion with multiattack (if the GM allows it) to give it armor spikes. That way it could make normal weapon attacks including iteratives plus all natural attacks at -2.

This option is not always a good one but it exists and could help with DR.

I'd take the BR archetype that spends spell slots for self healing + primalist. Doing that reduces the cha needed. Then I'd gestalt it with the hunter.
The cha you have allows you to take evolved companion. Later you can take ferocious companion via primalist. The result is a raging beast with his raging master, both of which can use their teamwork feats together. The master can self heal as swift action and has a lot of strong buffs for himself and his companion.

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Why not skald?

This should be in suggestions/homebrew as it is about something not possible and seemingly not intended for PF.

Magda Luckbender wrote:

Q: "Does vital strike work with ..."

A: No!

Since ACG we have some feats designed to work with vital strike. Grasping strike, winter's strike and faery strike. But since those have been designed to work with vital strike and only work in combination with it you could make a point that they don't count.

Are you planning on wearing heavy armor? If not you could dip into ranger or slayer for TWF without the dex requirement.

And another thing: I felt that the Viking fighter is really good for a thunder and fang build because of the bonuses he gets with his shield and the general feel of the class. But I guess that for bullrushing and such the foehammer is better.

Yes, one of the coolest feat in all of Paizo and all but unusable because the only weapon it applies to sux. And still everybody just yells and screams because of slashing grace not working as they want.

Thac20 wrote:
Umbranus wrote:

In a city where it is disallowed to give food or money to beggars the LG guy will not feed the starving child because he isn't allowed to. The NG guy will tend to ignore non-good laws if it keeps him from saving someone. And because of that he will feed the starving child.

A CG might try to make other people break the law as well.
The LG guy will hire the beggar to perform some trivial task, giving food as payment. The NG guy will just give the beggar some food.

That would be a legal option for the LG guy. Just breaking the law sould not. And that was my point. Because the question asked was to show differences between LG and NG.

I never said the LG had to stand there and do nothing.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:

that's not how the lawful alignment works, the paladin doesn't ignore it. saying someone is illegitimate because of them being evil, is a chaotic good action.

in fact he'd probably search for proof that any devil's town had it's previous ruler's ousted. but if he finds that the land was unoccupied previously and the town was created by the Devil's then they're entirely legitimate.

mindful that war/forceful takeover in Lawful good perspective is not legitimate, while it is for a lawful evil person.


You're actually going to argue that a paladin would have to respect the authority of devils, and that it would be evil and/or chaotic for him to lead a crusade/revolution to overthrow them?

A crusade perhaps not. A revolt clearly too chaotic for a paladin.

Spooky Kid wrote:
human fighter

If he's competent in and out of combat at all levels he is really outlandish.

You could try to create a system where they have to spend resources to overcome simple encounters to save time. Then they can decide what they see as worth more: Game time or party resources.
Just on the fly: For each CR the encounter has they have to spend 1 spell-level or 1 use per day of some ability.
Example: They have a CR5 encounter and want to hand-wave it. The barbarian expends 2 rounds of rage, the wizard a level 2 spell and the cleric one channel use.
Would they have been able to deal with this encounter with just this investment? Not sure but better than hand-waving it.
Don't allow it for encounters that are of a CR higher than half their APL.

With a vital strike build I'd look at the new feats grasping strike, faery strike and winter's strike. The last one is save or fatigued and by that might fit the concept.
Unless you can cast ranger or druid spells or SLA you need another feat to qualify. But some races like gnome or skinwalker should qualify through SLA. In those two cases it's speak with animals.

In a city where it is disallowed to give food or money to beggars the LG guy will not feed the starving child because he isn't allowed to. The NG guy will tend to ignore non-good laws if it keeps him from saving someone. And because of that he will feed the starving child.
A CG might try to make other people break the law as well.

Depends. Are the hunter and the NPC front line material? If not the skald could look rather useless without someone (except the animal companion) to give rage to.
Play a slayer or cavalier or some other melee without own rage. That way you benefit most from the skald.

Avoron wrote:

Does anybody know of other rules, FAQs, or posts that might confirm or refute this idea? Any input will be appreciated.

All the rules you found and quoted tell you it is allowed to pounce on a standard action charge. Why are you looking for further rules?

The answer is yes, you can pounce when making a standard action charge. By that zombies with ounce can make a full attack, for example.

Melee hunter. Your rolls allow you to push the cha up to get access to evolved companion.
With spirit's gift and evolved companion you can have a powerful companion and still be competent enough yourself. Take a pet with a swim* speed that can help you in cases when you have to get into the water.
*not only a swim speed. But in addition to the land speed.

If you like multiclassing you can mix in some levels of barbarian to get ferocious companion. Or a primal bloodrager with a 4th level bloodline power worth trading away.

I just skimmed the thread so please excuse me if it has been brought up.

As I understand it you want to combine a bloodline ability that requires a melee touch attack with an unarmed vital strike. It that is correct you can do that by taking the Sorcerous Strike feat.

Sorcerous Strike (Combat) :

The power flowing through your veins also flows through your unarmed strike.
Prerequisite: Sorcerer bloodline class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: When you gain this feat, you choose one bloodline power that you can use to affect a single opponent. If you make a successful unarmed strike against an opponent, in addition to dealing your unarmed strike damage, you can spend a swift action to deliver the effects of the chosen bloodline power to that opponent. Doing so provokes no attacks of opportunity.

Edit: Upon rereading it: I'm not sure if it works with eldritch heritage or if you really need the bloodline, as the feat prerequisites call out sorcerous bloodline class feature.

As the carry capacity of the possible familiars is rather limited, is there any way besides spells and magic items to increase the familiar's strength and/or carry capacity?
Spirit's gift lets me apply a shaman spirit's spirit animal ability to my familiar. Via that I could give it some nice boosts, even a flight speed. But no strength increase. With evolved familiar I could give it 1 point evolutions, but again, no strength increase.
There are traits (muscle of the society) or feats (pack mule) that increase carry capacity, but I can't give them to my familiar, or can I?
Edit: I just remembered that the beast bonded witch can learn feats for her familiar. Any other way.

yazo wrote:
How would a investigator fit?

Investigator looks cool. And he can make healing pots for himself in the form of elixirs. If the others don't have self healing shame on them.

There is a nice looking investigator guide here on the boards somewhere. I just read it today so it has to be new. With a race that gets a SLA and arcane strike combined with what the investigator gets you will not need a into to hit and damage feat. In fact I think it would be too much.
At level 4 I think you get +1/2 level to hit and damage for int bonus rounds per target. Add inspiration and alchemy and you should be golden.

Outlandish things I have played in the past:

- Nanite infused Cowboy robot who used to sit at the campfire drinking molten lead, while his buddies drank coffee.

- A blind warrior woman (One of those on the Rifts cover). A genetically modified fighter who uses psionic senses instead of normal sight.

- A kind of alien child. The parents of that race are more or less god-like. But the children, who "only" have some temporal manipulation powers can be played.

- A spirit who had possessed a cat's body and by that could interact with the physical world.

- The most outlandish thing I've played in PF was a strong half-orc earth wizard with a pig familiar. He pretended to be a peasant, wearing peasant clothes, a straw-hat and always had a straw in his mouth. In combat he used his flail unless there was some serious threat. Then he used his acid cloud school power or cast spells.

Or you combine Opportune Parry and Riposte with dodging panache on the first attack. That way the iterative attacks can't hit any more because you're not there anymore.
The deed just states that it doesn't negate the attack triggering it, not about iterative attacks.

Edit: Only works if the opponent doesn't have a 5ft step left. Like when you stepped away from him at the end of your turn.

I'd say try escape route. When you have to fight something with big reach then this can mean the difference between winning and defeat.

To your question: 4 rounds is little time, even more so when the party moves stealthy and because of that at 1/2 speed.
For situations where this would be worth it you could have the stealthy party members sneak, place some bear traps and have the lound once run up to start the fight, instead.

I have played strange things in the past and I really cant see or imagine something that is too outlandish. If the game is right.

The scizore gives you -1 to attack rolls. I don't think it's such a good weapon.

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Mathius wrote:

Shadowrun is imbalanced but is at least mostly balanced with niche. I can not see combat build that can out face the face or hacker that can do combat that a street sam.

in SR 3rd mages can do what mundanes can plus do magic. Dont know 4th good enough to comment.

VRMH wrote:

Don't have a build, but:

Drill Sergeant.


I want to play that for some time now, but have not had the right game for it.

As long as I do not find any evidence in the contrary I'll assume it works that way. The discussion about the circlet of persuasion seems to indicate that changing a skill's stat bonus from one stat to another makes it based on the new stat.

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The topic would be better reading: Dealing with effective Intimidate / Dazzling Display / etc. It is not broken and does not need to be fixed. Be glad that it's not a witch using her slumber hex on all those enemies instead.

If you use the sidebar for nonhuman tieflings it does not cost you your SLA. It's only if you want to roll on the table and get the small result that you have to "pay" for it.

Eltacolibre wrote:
I know a lot of people seems to be obsessed with the idea of everything needs to be balanced...but quite frankly do you actually really care? Like a player wants to play a tiny fey creature barbarian and complains that he isn't doing as much damage as the half-giant barbarian? Old school players do you remember how hard it was to play a pixie barbarian?

I do not think every option should be equal. Like a pixie barbarian. But I think all classes should have the option to be in the same league as all the other classes. Rogues, clerics and wizards should all have an equal amount of narrative power. Where narrative is not roleplaying but story changing/forming.

For example: In classic WOW classes were very different and not everyone could everything. But with some sad exceptions all classes were viable. Today the classes are much more similar. Every DD has AOE effects and many of the buffs have been equalized so now it's mostly irrelevant what kind of DD, what kind of tank or healer you bring as long as the mix is right.*
*I'm not talking about heroic mode raids

But in classic the game was more fun because every class felt special. We had a guild with only tauren in them and had to accomplish all the 5man dungeons without any AOE effects worthy of the name.

TL;DR I hate equality in games but I want balance in the form of similar viability of classes.

Lore oracle would be able to get cha to knowledge skills if my memory serves me right. But then you'd not get cha to CMD.

thejeff wrote:

I have no idea what noble scion has to do with anything.

It is this feat that allows cha to initiative. So it is one of the cha to everything feats we are talking about.

TheSideKick wrote:
A slew of powerful fighter only feats that all other classes, even ones that say they can use fighter only feats, can't use. Fests to make the fighter over all more worth while and shore up its defenses.

That would be neat. Examples could be

- Real bravery: prerequisites: Bravery class feature. Benefit: The fighter is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions only while the fighter is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead.

- Boot camp training: Prerequisites: Fighter 1, can only be taken at 1st level. Benefit: The fighter gets 1/2 his class level on profession (soldier), Climb, survival, and on checks to stay alert and awake during his watch. (not THAT powerful but helps with the fighter's lack of skills)

- Equipment training: Prerequisites: Weapon training or Armor training class feature. Benefit: The fighter adds his weapon training bonus or his armor training bonus to the hardness of applicable equipment he is wielding or wearing. If the fighter's weapon or armor is targeted by a spell that allows a saving throw he can add his weapon- or armor training bonus to the saving throw as applicable.

Nicos wrote:

3: No, your example is far from right. In no way a guy using his 18 str to move the axe would hit as harder as a 5 str, 18 dex guy who just let the axe fall.

Now now, you did not understand my example. That explains why you think it is silly.

I never suggested that the low strength guy deals as much damage (while chopping wood) as the high strength guy. What I DID write is that the low strength guy would be better at chopping wood when using the heavy axe while the high strength guy would be similar with both.

just flat out ignores that dex to damage can be interpreted as not hitting harder but hitting in the right spot.

I already told you that hitting the right spot is not dex to damage but precision. That is because to hit the right spot you have to be precise, you know?

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