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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 1,524 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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My advice....

Skip toughness and only take the feat Power Attack at level 1.

Take the Human alternate race ability Dula talent.

By giving up your bonus feat and skilled you get +2 to two stats.

Now add them to Con and to Str and have a 20 str and an 18 con.


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Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:
Eltacolibre wrote:

Drow noble is the only race that I would even bother to call OP in Pathfinder, but to be fair with some clarifications from the authors, it was supposed to be a race that you can only play at APL 2+. All races are rather tame and many of their benefits (RP) don't do much compared to the core races.

Android are okay.

Since when was Drow Noble a player race?

Having a "Characters" block in the monster manual entry DOES NOT imply a player race. Non-player Characters are characters too. All this denotes is that the race typically advances with class levels rather than monster hit dice.

The original debate was when using Monsters as Player Characters section in the Bestiary. People were not correctly caclulating the CR of the Drow Noble leaving some people to think it was base CR 0 which has no mod as compared to a CR 1 which would (using those rules) only be available at level 2+ and cost you a class level.

IMHO, which along with $1 will let you buy a cup of coffee, a drow noble is fine in a mixed party as long it is one level behind others players. It MAY be stronger at level 1-3... but will probably be a little weaker at mid to high levels (especially if a pure caster on levels where it has to wait the extra level for new spell levels).

If your group uses the "Using monsters as Player Characters" optional rule great have fun, if it does not great have fun. There is no wrong way :)


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LazarX wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
I have a bard with perform: oratory (he tells stories about the greatest of all pathfinders - himself) and I was wondering if there was masterwork 'instrument' or some such that would work for oratory. Thanks much.
Not every skill has a plausible masterwork instrument. Megaphones for instance only make your speech loud, not more convincing.

BUT THE LOUDER YOU SPEAK THE MORE CONVINCING YOU ARE!!!!!!


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David Neilson wrote:
That is a bit of a weird mental image though. Knight taking off his full plate, and then slipping into a chainshirt to sleep in.

We refer to it as Mithril Pajamas.....


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HOw many points are they built on? or did the roll for stats?

How much wealth is their gear equal to?


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Correct.

There is a limitation so you always get 1 per level so a barbarian gets (4-2) 2 skill points and a fighter or cleric gets (2-2) 1 skill point.

Humans then add one more to this total assuming they did not trade away skilled.


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DM_Blake wrote:
My wife is my companion and she's a friend too, but she's my only companion;

Too many jokes come to mind.....


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Covert Operator wrote:

Sorry if this question has already been asked, but I am a bit confused about whether Mystic Theurge counts as having a "spellcasting progression" or not.

Specifically, I wanted to know if a prestige class that advances spellcasting progression for one class you had before taking the prestige class would allow you to advance your Mystic Theurge spellcasting progression, which by extension would advance both classes' spellcasting progression.

Mytic theurge does not have progression it progresses other classes so, no you can not take for example Loremaster and progress your MT.

Evangelist now is more up for debate since it advances a CLASS and does not specify it to non-prestige classes.


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JiCi wrote:

1)A feat similar to Superior Unarmed Strike

because you're NOT gonna get far with ONLY 1d3 points of base damage if you're not a monk or brawler.

Funny thing is I SUSPECT that unless size modifications are used the class that does the most damage with an unarmed strike is a fighter.


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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Move: Obviously I have a pretty high BAB, since have quite often retrieved my phone from my jacket or pants pocket without stopping moving. While you walk somewhere and have re required number of hands, why not, unless you have to interact with a container like a scroll case (with more than one scroll in it).

Not that hard considering you were walking (which is a move action). That means you still had a standard action to do that during those 6 seconds.

If you double moved call it a hustle or a jog, it might have been more dificult and thus would have required a Bab of 1+.


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The rules say "The eidolon does not heal naturally."

Our group was unsure what this meant.

Option 1) The eidolon does not gain HD over night as a character or animal companion would equal to their HD.

Option 2) The Eidolon can only be healed by the spell "Rejuvinate Eidolon" and Clerical magic or bursts would not heal it.

This was not mentioned in the APG FAQ so I was wondering if there was an offical answer? or failing that what the general consensus is?


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Dicefreaks stating the unstatable.... Not sure if there site still exists (web filter blocks me at work) but should be able to find the stats somewhere.

Think they had Asmodeous at CR 81.

I'd start there.


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I would like a geat so that when using a reach weapon against a target which has an ally between you and it the target did not get cover.

Call it Precise Strike.

I would also like an Improved Precise Strike that let you ignore all cover that is not full cover from a melee attack.

Mildly annoying that if you have this set up EAY (Enemy Ally You) if you are a properly feated archer you can attack at no penalty, but if you are using a Reach weapon you can not pick up feats to attack without penalty.


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Just one thought... Should not the Title of this post been "Fluffer Question" as compared to "Fluff Question"?


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Why I just realized that even without this feat you can pick a skill point and a hp and a favored class.

They key word is OR.

If yo have done truth tables you know that if you say "the apple is a fruit OR the apple is a plant" it is true even if both are right.....

If Paizo had wanted to make it so it was "one or the other bot not both" they should have used XOR...

Now I will go rebuild all my characters.

[/sarcasm]


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SoonerTed wrote:

Comparing large weapon + large weapon and saying that doesn't make you able to wield a huge weapon is in no way comparable to saying "treat these levels in Cavalier as levels in Monk when determining unarmed damage".

The reason Unarmed Combat Mastery needs a specific stacking clause is because Ninja & Monk are two different classes.

Levels in the same class stack, no?

Cavalier and Monk are not the same class. So unless it says the effective levels stack they would not stack.

Note Ninjas says it acts as a monk level -4 and that they stack with monk levels for damage.

Cavalier says it counts as monk level for non lethal but does not say anything about stacking with monk levels.


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SoonerTed wrote:

The cleric that gains bard levels doesn't actually have bard levels. Sermonic performance says nothign about having any number of bard levels, just "equivalent to".

What makes this different, in my mind, is it actually says "treated as having the monk levels" in regards to unarmed strike. But I've been wrong before.

But it says "treated as having monk levels equal to their cavalier level".

Lets say a Feat let you wield a large weapon with no penalty.
Lets say you are also a tiefling who has the alternate ability to wield a large weapon with no penalty.
You can not then wield a huge weapon with no penalty.

If you compare the wording on the monk levels to the advanced talent for ninjas.

Quote:
Unarmed Combat Mastery: A ninja who selects this trick deals damage with her unarmed strikes as if she were a monk of her ninja level –4. If the ninja has levels in monk, this ability stacks with monk levels to determine how much damage she can do with her unarmed strikes.

Here it speciically says it stacks, without that wording it would not stack.


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SoonerTed wrote:

Order of the Hammer states:

"At 2nd level, the cavalier does not provoke attacks of opportunity when she attacks foes while unarmed so long as she is dealing nonlethal damage. In addition, the cavalier's unarmed strikes deal more nonlethal damage than usual; she is treated as having a number of monk levels equal to her cavalier level for the purpose of determining how much nonlethal damage her unarmed strikes deal."

If a character has 2 levels in Cavalier/Order of the Hammer & Two levels of Monk, does that make him level 4 in Monk for unarmed damage, therefore giving his unarmed, nonlethal damage 1d8 ?

It makes sense that it would, but RAW doesn't always make sense.

Thanks!

Assuming that is a directr quote, no they would no stack.

As a 2/2 she would as a cavalier be treated as 2nd level monk when dealing non lethal and as a second level monk when dealing lethal.

If instead she was a 4th level cavalier and second level monk she could do non lethal damage as a 4th level monk and lethal damage as a second level monk.

Levels would not stack unless it stated they did. Thus Monk does not stack with Brawler or Sacred fist either.


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Ashiel wrote:
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

I can't imagine a bigger waste of time than adversarial analysis of Pathfinder.

PvP tells you basically nothing about how the game plays in a campaign setting.

Well, yes and no. I'm going to jump out and say that PvP is not something that I encourage in my games in the least, however when you get right down to it, the entire game is PvP.

I tend ot agrere wiht Lincoln...

However I posted the first fighter at level 5 in response to the following post:

Rhedyn wrote:


OK, put together a level 6 martial that beats the level 5 eidolon.


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Put together quickly so not fully optimized.

Human Fighter 2 handed weapon archetype
str 22 (13) +2 racial +1 level 4 +2 belt
Dex 14 (5)
Con 14 (5)

Int 7 (-4)
Wis 10
Cha 10

AC 23 (24 if hasted but yes I consider this low)
HP 10 +(4d10) + 10 (con) +5 (Favored class) = 47
When Power attacking +12 (d8+20) (assuming haste and bless +14 to hit)

Feats:
1 Dodge
H Weapon Focus Naginata
F1 Improved Unarmed Strike
F2 Power Attack
3 Dragon Style
F4 Weapon Specialization
5 Combat Reflexes

Equipment

Equipment: 10085
Full Plate +1 (2650)
+1 Naginata (2335)
Belt of GIant Strenth +2 (4000)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1000)
Potion of Enlarge Person x2 (100)

Notes has reach so on medium sized opponents he gets an attack as they come in.
COmbat reflexes so up ot three attacks of opportunity even if flat footed.
Can charge through difficult terrain and allies due to dragon style.

Side Note one: Crits are RARE, and can not be counted on... but one crit will one shot almost all of those encounters (84 -112 damage).
Side note two: landing those crits are FUN!!!!!


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OK so you get a third domain.. Big Deal.

Lets look at a level 10 cleiruic levle 10 exalted.

As a cleric he gets 2 domains at level 10 as an exalted he gets one more at level 10.

It does NOT say in Exalted that it advances Domains as a cleric. So yoru Cleric domains stop advancing and then you get a third domain that advances as an exalted. That is a trade off. I would consider 2 at 20 MAY be more effective then 3 at 10.

Exalted has 1 good save 2 bad saves, cleric has 2 good saves.

So a 10/10 has saves (before stats) of Fort 10, Ref 6, Wil 12 vs cleric 20 fort 12 ref 6 Wil 12 (MINOR advantage cleric).

DEPENDING on how you interpret Domain spells you may be shooting yourself in the foot. I DO NOT KNOW what the correct way is.

Option 1) Domain Spells are part of spellcasting which advances with prestige class.

Option 2) Domain spells are a function of the domain whcih does NOT advance with prestige class.

So with option 1 Exaled is clearly better and can fill his 9 domain slots with 1 of 3 spells at each level.

With Option 2 Cleric is clearly better, as while the exalted has a little more flexibility on domain spells for level 1-5 only the cleric gets domain slots on 6 - 9.

Is exalted a good class? Yes, it is also very flavorful. I am not sold on it being heads and shoulders the way to biuld any cleric.

P.S. IF anyone cares... reach clerics? BAB is 1 less with Cleric/Exalted when compared to pure cleric


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Celanian wrote:

If you read the challenge, it was to build a martial who could do as well as the synth in a party vs a typical selection of CR appropriate foes. Your fighter fails in that regard because damage is so low that most CR appropriate monsters will ignore him to attack squishies in the back.

The synth doesn't even have to go toe to toe vs your fighter. It could do something like evo surge wings to fly, then cast enlarge person in safety, then go to ground and evo surge a trample. Then just trample the fighter to death. With spells, there are all sorts of ways of beating the fighter cheaply with minimal risk.

For IN a party against typical CR foes I would defintely build differently most likley an archer. Yes I realize with magic there are a lot of things any caster can do to trash a melee.

However MOST if not you but other posters were saying someone post a melee who can hold its own agianst the Eidolon. Heck one even suggested since I mentioned 6 is a break point for melee to send a level 6 melee against your Eidolon.

My fighter while he WOULD work best in a group was designed for by himself.

BTW on a side point do you know off hand if evol surge, was nerfed the same way paragon surge was? Just due to the similarity.

Finally if the idea is to be a melee with party support againt CR equivalent foes... Would you care to pick half a dozen appropriate fights and say what the party buffs should consist of?

I THOUGHT I was expected to build a melee to fight (more or less) straight up against the Eidolon. If the challenge is not that please clarify exactly what you want the melee to do in comparison to your Eidolon and what outside resources are available from group members?


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Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

half elf with the drow magic alt ability

oracle 1/sorc 2/MT
oracle use the wood mystery and grab the bend the grain revelation

full Cha based casting and the least painful entry you're gonna get
starting at level 9 you'll have access to 3rd level arcane spells and 2nd level divine spells, with 3rd level divine spells coming at character level 10.

Anohter option is Assimar, not the standard one but several of the other heritages in blood of angels give a level 2 arcane SLA.

Also Oracle 1/Sorceror 2/MT 5 gives you 3rd level arcane and divine at 8th level not 10th.


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Celanian wrote:


Evolutions:

+2 Str (2)
Limbs Arms (2)
Claws (1)
Improved Damage Claws (1)
Improved natural armor X2 (2)
Energy Attacks (2)

Feats: Power attack, Arcane Strike, and +1 evolution.

Take half-elf for favored class benefit to get another +1 evolution.

Your build is a gimmick build specifically designed to fight an eidolon. It's nowhere near as good as the synth for general adventuring and against a general assortment of CR appropriate foes. But even with this build, the synth simply doesn't power attack and it's...

Yes, it is somewhat gimmicy, and yesit was crafted for the Eidolon but would work in a regular group also. However the challenge was prtty much set up as build a Martial who could fight the Eidlon. Mine COULD have been optimized more (for example I am not at all using Improved shield bash) so could ahve left off one of his feats.

Not power attacking lets the Eidolon hit on a 19 or 20 instead of just a 20 his alter person to small size would let him increease his to hit by 1, and change it so even wihtout power attack you need a 20. Again HASTE is your big advantage over him. You are also better againt mooks. The only REALLY gimmicky part of the character was taking Aasimar as a race so the 5 points of Acid resistance would negate your energy attack most of the time.

Is a synthesists summoner strong? YES
At level 5 will it beat a pure melee? PROBABLY
Does it TOTALLY DOMIMATE every other character? No.

I think Synthesists are strong characters but do not consider them broken.

In a 5 point game they would be INCREDIBLE and DOMINATE!!!!
In a 100 point game people would say useless.
As I thikn I said I usually play 25, I consider them to be strong but not overpowering, in PFS which is 20 point buy they would be a little stronger.

Also if it did not come across, I think what you put together was a very nice build. I may try it one day.


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There is a difference between what is the best for a party and what is best in arena. Point value also makes a difference (usually I play at 25 points so less of a differnce) at 15 points it would be harder to even come close.

Still at 20 points a basic ordinary sword and board fighter. I did not take traits but *shrug* only "unusual" thing is race (angel blooded aasimar) the rest is straight out of Core.

Level 5 Fighter angel-blooded Assimar

Str 18 (10)
Dex 16 (7) +1 level 4 stat increase
Con 14 (5)
Wis 10
Int 10
Cha 10 (-2)

HP 10 +(4d10) + 10 (con) +5 (Favored class) = 47
AC: 30
Damage +12 (D6) +10

Feats:
(1) Dodge
(F1) Arcane Strike
(f2) Weapon Focus Scimitar
(3) Shield Focus
(F4) Weapon Specialization (scimitar)
(5) Improved Shield Bash (does nothing but setting up for two weapon fighting later)

Equipment: 10135
Full Plate +1 (2650)
Heavy Steel Shield +1 (1170)
Amulet Natural Armor +1 (2000)
Ring Protection +1 (2000)
+1 Scimitar (2315)

Not having haste from party mates really hurts this character. While haste would change the Synthesists from 4 attacks to 5 (25% more) it would double the attacks of the fighter.

Still fighter hits Eidolon on a 16 17 18 19 or 20.

Eidolon hits fighter on a 20.

Which helps to counteract a lot of the damage difference. Would still probably put money on the Eidolon but a close fight. With haste (commonly cast by party members) I think the fighter might win.


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Celanian wrote:

Level 6 actually helps the summoner as well since Rend and an additional +2 Str evolutions are freed up as well. Level 8 REALLY helps the summoner since Large size is opened up.

I suspect that it won't be until level 11 when the martial gets its 3rd attack that it catches up just on the fighting aspect. And of course the summoner has 4th level spells and SM 6 by that point.

BTW, would you mind posting real quick where each of his evolution points went? Glanced over the build but I admit I have not looked too much into Eidolons.. my only summoner is a Master Summoner and theEidolon is more skill monky then combat due to being half size.

6 has some nice stuff, 5 had a LOT of nice stuff.

5 is a break point for
Power attack (their odd BAB progression makes them ahead of a 3/4 Bab class at this point and at every level other than 4 8 12 16 20)
Arcane Strike
Str/Dex Bonus
Stacking Natural Armor


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Celanian wrote:

I'm kinda surprised that nobody has posted a level 5 martial so far. Level 5 should be easy to slap together.

In my experience, a level 5 fighter, barbarian, paladin, or ranger usually has about 40-50 HP, AC 18-22, and does 1 attack for about 20-30 average damage. Barbs are higher on the HP and damage, but lower on the AC. S&B is higher on the AC and lower on the damage. Paladins vs their smite targets do a little better.

Those numbers are nowhere near as effective as a synth of the same level. Which is a shame since classes that are supposed to be good at fighting should be better at fighting than a class where fighting is only about half of what they can do.

Just to point out level 6 is a break point for martial, not level 5 (which is probably why 5 is being selected).


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Actually Greater mighty wallop specificaly says in the spell up to Colossal in size. So it does not stack with enlarge peson.

Quote:

As mighty wallop, except that the bludgeoning melee weapon damage

increases by one size category for every four caster levels you have, to a maximum of five size categories or up to an effective size of Colossal.

Nice spell if you allow 3.5 splat books (in this case "races of the dragon") Gives monks a nice boost but still not in and of itself game breaking.

Now combine with pumeling style and if you actually get to the point where you can land an attack... (all pure melee's issue) you will do a ton of damage.


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Quintain wrote:
Ok, since a familiar isn't an animal companion (slight mistake there), how does a rogue get an animal companion (not a familiar) that doesn't require a dip into a different class.

2 feat chain Nature Soul + Animal Ally. Now how you get the companion to have a 13 int to take the feat is beyond me. I seriously DOUBT that they expected you to put a point into IQ so your AC can take linguistics, read a +4 book and then use a +6 headband....


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Russell Engel 960 wrote:
So, having ki pool (cold iron), is that good or not with the way I want to build the monk/rogue or monk/ninja?

I would not. You really do not want to sacrafice BAB by going with a 7/13 build. So you would instead want to go 8/12. If you do that you are giving up 2 dice of sneak attack and two advanced talents. Sure you get a few extra things but for me it is not worth it.


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Russell Engel 960 wrote:


Is there any way to get close to optimization in damage or what not or probably not since its multi-class instead of sticking with one class all the way through?

No, not only are you multi-classing 2 3/4 bab classes, you are using gunarmed strike which is a x2 crit on a 20.

The Ninja 16/Monk 4 negates the loss of BAB any more by going with a break point. You will also have full level 20 hth damage by using BOTH the advanced talent and Monastic Legacy. If you got a Monks robe you could retrain Monastic Legacy.

BigP4nda I believe spending a Ki is a swift action so you can only spend one ki not one from each class. From a NON-Gestalt standpoint I would find you loose too much Sneak attack (for my personal taste).


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Depending on what you want.... at high level Sacred Fist, Barbarian, Fighter.

Fighter defintely and barbarian most likley will out dps a monk in unarmed combat.


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Russell Engel 960 wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Russell Engel 960 wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has a guide or suggestions for how many levels of monk/rogue and when to take them.
That's going to depend entirely on what your goal is. Can you tell us more about your concept and what you want this character to be capable of?
I want to be able to do sneak attack with my flurry of blows using unarmed strike.

Then I would suggest Ninja/Monk rather then rogue/monk.

I would suggest monk 4/Ninja 16.

At level 3 pick up Monastic legacy.

When you get your first advanced talent pick up th ninja talent that lets your ninja levsl count as (monk levels -4) for unarmed combat.

Look into using stunning fist with an attack of opportunity and then the feat Dastardly Finish to Coup de Grace a stunned opponent.

You may also want to consider the feats Knock Out Artist, Sap Adept, Sap Master.

The build will do what you want, but from a POWER level you will be behind most other characters if they optimize at all.


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CWheezy wrote:
I wonder if paizo will patch or ignore it.

To determine the answer to this we must look at the extremely complicated Paizo Patch Decision tree!!!!!

Does it effect organized play? If yes Patch, if no go to next step.

Does it give non spell-casters an edge? If yes Patch, if no leave as is.

Result will not be patched.


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Lore Oracle could be good and mesh well with the library. Her curse (Whatever you choose) could be flavored as her penalty for leaving hell to persue knowledge/truth/japanese-manga-school-girls.


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Swift action spells do not provoke and thus do not require defensive casting.


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Sending in the middle of the night (more than 25 words because he researched a variant).

The Message wrote:


I know who you are. I don't care what you want. If you're looking for power, I can tell you I don't have to give it... but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you return my spellbook now, along wiht 5000 gold pieces that will be the end of it - I will not look for you, I will not pursue you... but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you... and I will kill you.


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Wow what an Elegant Solution for Crane Wing..... Shame they did not think of it a year or two ago.


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It is a 2 handed weapon. Elves have an ability to use it as a martial weapon rather then a Exotic weapon, but in ALL cases it is a 2 handed weapon.

So an elf who by class gets all martial weapons can use it two handed.

A non-elf who spends a feat on Exotic Weapon proficiency Elven Curve blade could use it two handed.

Anyone else can use it two handed but they would take the -4 penalty to hit for using a weapon they were not proficient in.


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As per that chart, the Elven Curve blade is a two handed weapon that requires the feat Exotic weapon to use. There is no conflict.


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Focused trance can depend on flavor of all things.

While I agree that the correct answer is what is the DC and htey get a +20 to the DC how you flavor it may give you an idea of how ot respond.

Option 1) Probably most peoples flavor. By going into this trance you put yoru mind in a state of total recall and analysis. You rapidly go through all your memories often correlating things that at first glance might not have had an obvious connection to come up with a deeper understanding.

Option 2) Lore oracle received his power when he first drew aside the curtain between this realm and knowledge. Many people have used an artifact "The codex of the infinite planes" as a filter to view thsi knowledge but you somehow saw it as truth unfiltered. Now you are deaf, not because your ears do not hear, but because untold voices are speaking to you all the time overwhelming your hearing with so much information. Sometimes though you can with great concentration slip into a "Focused trance" and tune out many of the distracting voices for a moment and hear the truth of what you are searching for.

Btw, what gets interesting by level 3 is a Lore oracle 1/Archivist bard 2.

Assume a 20 int and a 13 charisma (if 20 point buy)

Level 1 Oracle Focused trance mystery Feat extra Mystery Think on it again.
Level 2 bard (Archivist 1)
Level 3 bard (Archivist 2)can take 20 on Knowledge checks.

You can now make a second lore roll on somethign you failed with a +10 bonus, use focused trance with that for +20, and use the archivist ability ot take 20. So your roll is 50 + Skill with that knowledge.

You ARE knowledge.


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I am considering a character for a campaign that will start off as students in arcane academy. I am considering focusing the character on crafting.

Possible ideas:

Mystic Theurge (early access) Advantage access to Divine and arcane magic.

Wizard access to lots of arcane spells and the Discovery "Wand Like Staff".

Arcanist (bloodline) Lots of spells known, with Arcane bloodline at level 20 can use spell levels instead of charges.

All of them work fine for your basic craft wondrous or arms and armor since you can bypass requirements with a +5... but which overall would be the best?


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While probably (read definitely) excessive.

Assume a bard takes Improved Eldritch Heritage Arcane.

Let's say he picks "See Invisibility" as his spell. This is a Sorceror/Wizard 2 but also bard 3.

By my understaning he picks a sorceror spell but since it is ALSO on his list he should now be able to cast "See Invisibility" as a second level spell instead of third.

Is this correct?


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Canthin wrote:


Personally, I think that if someone wanted to spend three feats over the course of 11 levels in order to add a 4th level or lower spell that they normally wouldn't be able to cast, (and then a 6th or lower at 15th, and an 8th or lower at 19th) I would be fine with that.

Just a note if you are a sorceror, and take Improved Eldrith Heritage with your 19th level feat. You could add 3 level 9 spells to your list.

Also if an Arcane Sorceror takes a level of Loremaster or any other prestige class to delay his reaching the level 9 bloodline power he can select a higher level spell. After all with one level of Loremaster he has 5th level spells when he get the 9th level ability. This also means when he reaches 17th level and gets the last free spell he will be a 18th level caster and can thus select a 9th level spell.

One of the few cases where not advancing a bloodline HELPS you.


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Canthin wrote:

I still don't understand how this "works". Could be someone cast Invisibility on the Elephant in the room (or I'm just very blind), but I've been trying to understand the relationship between Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) and Paragon Surge, and Expanded Arcana, and I got nothing.

A Half-Elf Oracle can already choose Paragon Surge as a 3rd level spell without any feats needed, so the problem can't be giving an Oracle access to that spell.

An Oracle can already choose Expanded Aracana, so the problem can't be with that feat (it specifically says you have to choose a spell from your list).

If an Oracle chooses Paragon Surge using Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane), this FAQ still doesn't prevent them from casting it (since it is on the Sorcerer list, thus valid to choose, and also on the Oracle list, thus valid to cast according to the FAQ).

So it seems the only thing the FAQ is saying is "An Oracle can't choose a spell that isn't already on their list with Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) if they want to cast it." Which doesn't seem that outlandish to me. There are still plenty of spells that are on both lists that prevent the feat from being "worthless".

Personally, I think that if someone wanted to spend three feats over the course of 11 levels in order to add a 4th level or lower spell that they normally wouldn't be able to cast, (and then a 6th or lower at 15th, and an 8th or lower at 19th) I would be fine with that.

The trick is (or was) this.

1/2 elf oracle gets skill focus and eldrith heritage but does NOT get Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane).

1/2 elf oracle then casts paragon surge (which is on his list) to temporarily get the feat Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane). That fea t lets him pick 1 to 3 Sorceror spells depending on his level which he knows. Before it was Faqed to not allow Sorceror/Wizard spells it allowed an Oracle to cast a 3rd level spell to have any other spell ready the next round (up to the level he could cast). To be SLIGHLTY more abusive take Spell casting Mastery (Paragon Surge) and quicken Paragon surge to cast the spell you want when you want.

Now this has been nerfed two ways.

Nerf 1) if you use paragon surge multiple times in a day to get new spells it will give you the same spells each time.

Nerf 2) it now only gives you spells that are on your list. If you want to have paragon Surge add spells from both the Sorceror and Oracle list you shoud consider Mystic Theurge.

Having PLAYED a half elven oracle with Paragon surge (pre-nerf) in a 1 shot level 20 game (OK about 4 or 5 sessions but one adventure). It was fun, but I ran through my level 3 slots very quickly.

Still I had a blast :)


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:


I could see a really effective and cohesive all-evil group of Dexter Morgan (investigator/assassin), Walter White(Alchemist), Gaius Balthar(bard), and Magneto(wizard). They are all clearly evil but who are capable of working with others to meet their goals.

Riddick would be good to add too, if he could get over his signifigant Loner issues.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I THINK SR applies..... but it is ambiguous enough I am not certain. So I will FAQ.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Anohter option is to use the rules in Appendix of th eBestiary, Monsters as PC's.

bestiary wrote:

For monsters with racial Hit Dice, the best way to allow monster PCs is to pick a CR and allow all of the players to make characters using monsters of that CR. Treat the monster’s CR as its total class levels and allow the characters to multiclass into the core classes. Do not advance such monsters by adding Hit Dice. Monster PCs

should only advance through classes. If you are including a single monster character in a group of standard characters, make sure the group is of a level that is at least as high as the monster’s CR. Treat the monster’s CR as class levels when determining the monster PC’s overall levels. For example, in a group of 6th-level characters, a minotaur (CR 4) would possess 2 levels of a core class, such as barbarian.

Since an ogre is CR 3 a level 1 Fighter Ogre would be a 4th level character. He get some extra Hitdice, but looses quite a bit also.

Stat Adjustments would be
Str +10
Dex -2
Con +4
Int -4
wis +0
Cha -4


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Rats... too late to edit my post but a minor correction.

A level 5 caster would need a spellcraft 25 not 20 to make a +5 sword.

15 (caster level) +5 (standard enchanting) +5 (overcoming math requirement) = 25


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Weirdo wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
However, it still doesn't stop a +5 Elf-Bane Holy Wounding weapon from providing a +7 to hit and damage vs. elves (or counting as a +12 equivalent weapon).

First FAQ: "The +10 bonus-equivalent limitation is a hard cap for all weapons; you can't exceed that even with class abilities or other unusual abilities."

If +10 is a hard cap you can never have a weapon that temporarily counts as +12.

This is probably not the intended interaction of those two rules since if it was, it should have been clarified in the first FAQ that bane increased the weapon's total bonus equivalent and is, like class abilities and "unusual abilities," subject to the hard cap.

But they do interact in this way.

Wierdo, +10 is a hard cap and can not be bypassed by class abilities such as a paladin adding divine bond or greater magic weapon cast on a +1 sword vorpal of speed. However this hardcap is for Enchantment levels on an item.

Bane for this purpose ALWAYS counts as +1.

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