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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 1,330 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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For a 15 point game I would recommend AGAINST MT... Witch is a viabel substitute to combien some arcane and divine. With that said if you really want MT this is what I would do.

Peri Blooded (EMberkin) Aasimar.

Str 10
Dex 10
Con 10

Int 18 (16 +2)
wis 14
Cha 12 (10 +2)

If your Gm allows dropping stats consider lowering str and cha to get more dex and con.

Wizard 2/Seperatist Cleric of Nethys 1/MT 10
Emberkin gets a SLA of glitter dust for your level 2 arcane.
Use a domain (or inquisition) that gives you SLA for divine.


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Ipslore the Red wrote:
I recall a developer saying that you shouldn't be able to apply the same stat modifier twice. I'm fairly sure he's also taken pains to make it clear that he's not the rules guy, but I still frown on such shenanigans because I would have anyway and bandying about developer comments makes me feel more justified in having baseless opinions.

James Jacobs posted that about Fury fall and doulbe dex. I then asked about Paldin and Oracle and he said it worked.


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Elves used to get a free perception check to notice secret doors if they were wihtin 5' of them, this was taken out.

Dwarves DO get a free perception check to notice secret doors if htey are within 10 feet of htem sand it invovles stonework.

So unless the person is searching an area, or a dwarf and the door invivles stonework, (it takes a move action to search a 5' x 5' square) he would not notice the secret door even if he rolled a 100 on his quick perception check from the doorway. He is getting a general feel for the room rather then searching specific things.*

*Some people will disagree and say that the one perception should allow it with a -1 for every 10' away. I disagree, I would allow them to seach a square for secret doors from 40' away at a -4, but they would have to declare they are spending that move action searching that square.

So if a person stood in the middle of a 20 x 20 room and spun around in a circle slowly looking for secret doors I would let him make a perception check at -1 (10 feet from a wall)and it would take him 16 move actions to check the 80 feet of wall. I would not let him walk into the room make a percepption check as a move action and note three secret doors even if he had a +100 perception.


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Arguably a strenght 10 miner can bring down a wall with a heavy pick 1d6 damage.

Walls are helpless he full round Cou de gras.

Though that may make it TOO easy to bring down a wall :)


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Toppling MM gets a bad rep, but it really depends on your GM. If you at high level fight a lot of humanoids it stays valauble.

There are two common things that shut it down though.
1) Level 1 Shield spell.
2) 1500 GP item Brooch of Shielding.


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Don't underestimate the value of wands.

Cure light, bless, restoration and a few others.

Might make it worth taking craft wand over ring.

For a crafter you probably want human for the extra feat. At level 7 consider wizard 3/Cleric 3/MT 1 (for access to both divine and arcane).

Take the trait for +2 caster level (I would apply to wizard) so you have a caster level of 5 for quialifying for feats. If your GM is very leniant you can try a race that allows early entry into MT.

Universalist with a familiar who has the valet archetype.


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For you simple is best... Str buid 2 handed weapon. Naginata is good and provides reach, Tetsubo is another solid choice (assuming you do not mind spending 1 feat on Exotic Weapon).


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Sissyl wrote:
I have played mythic for a while... 2 MR = 1 CR is b~#+$@*#. More like 1 to 1.

Why I added the comment on Practice and Theory. I have not had any practice with mythic sadly.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Mythic is considered 2 ranks of mythic as adding 1 to the CR. So 2 ranks in mythinc is = 1 rank in level (theoretically).

Now in theory there is no difference between Theory and Practice... in Practice there is.

How much a mythic rank will help compared ot a regular level will vary based on build/class/level of character. For example a wizard gets more leveling to 15 (Bonus feat and new spell level) then he gets leveling to 16.

Question if you are considering epic 3.5 but no class above levle 20. How are you intending to work casting level? Does a Wizard 20/Loremaster 10 have a 30 or a 20 for casting level?

Using some foes from the Epic handbook you will need a higher casting level just to break SR.

If you drop anything from Epic.. I would drop Epic spell casting... while neat it is very open to abuse.

Epic can be fun to play or run (have done both) I am still trying to get the group I am with to experiment with mythic.


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Assimar (Agathion blooded) Oradin.

Life Oracle 8/Paldin 4 (the rest going into Oracle).

First leve feat Fey Foundling.

Favored class oracle choosing the 1.5 times for your channel energy mystery.

20 Point stat build.

St 14
Dx 10
Con 14 (16) +2 racial

Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16 (21) (+2 racial) +3 levels


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MagusJanus wrote:
which is that, in certain campaigns,...

That I can agree with, I misunderstood you to be saying they are never worth it.

Though Staff of Magi is faily useful in just about any campaign :)


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Artanthos wrote:
Ipslore the Red wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

The item you are looking for already exists. An Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Impact property.

Think harder.

I did.

Asking for an item that casts Strong Jaw all the time is similar to asking for an item that casts True Strike.

It's an interesting theorycraft, but should never be permitted in a game.

Not quite since once is a medium term buff and the other is a 1 round spell that lasts one hit.


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It SHOULD be simple.

To use a pearl of power to recall a Maximized fireball (using a level 6 slot) you need a level 6 pearl of power.

To cast a MAXIMIZED fireball with a rod of maximize You need a 1-3 ROD as the base slot you are using is a third level slot.

To cast a MAXIMIZED EMPOWERED Fireball with a rod of Maximize you need a 4 - 6 slot rod SINCE the Slot you are changing is a 5th level slot.

Basically you need to use a Rod Appropriate for the slot of spell you are casting after all modifications NOT COUNTING what the rod does.


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How usable a staff is and rechargeable really depends on a couple things. One is the staff itself, one is the campaign.

I think we can all agree that in a campaign wiht ample downtime, say Kingmaker or PFS, you have plenty of time to rechage your staff and it is useful.

I would also argue that if you have a staff which has the following spells Magic Missle, Shield, Mage Armor, Identify, Ray of Enfeeblement all at one charge each, it is worth using 1 of your level 1 slots to charge it. It will give you more variety in the day for a minimal cost.

By the same token if you had Shape Change, Mages Disjunction, Meteor Swarm, and Gate on a staff, it would be worth spending a 9th level slot to charge it because you had more variety available on that staff.

So the value of charging a staff depends not only on the staff itself, but also on the campaign.

I once was invovled in a home brew campaign and my sorceror intended to evetually have every arcane spell on a staff (with metamagic versions of the lower level spells). For him it would be worth keeping that staff charged.


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Holding (for a weapon) often means ready to attack with. So if you can ATTACK with that weapon then I would allow it. Grasping Tail specifies you can not WIELD a weapon so I do not think this would work.

For example a Kobold with the tail terror feat and a tail attachment (which is a weapon) could defintely use it.

For a tiefling to do such even though he has a tail, to do it by RAW would need kobold heritage and a tail attachment.


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CAHaugen wrote:
and my Barbarian Class gets 4 + Int (Minimum of 1) Skill Points, so that's a minimum of 5 per Level, so since I won't be getting up to at least an Ability Score of 12, Intelligence is out.

Actually it is (4 + int) Minimum 1 not 4 (+ int Minimum 1).

So with a 5 int you get (4 - 3) or 1 skill point per level.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Perhaps it would be better to force someone who has taken 10 ranks into a skill to spend their next feat on either extra traits (so they can get it as a class skill) or if it is a mental skill Cosmopolitan so they can get it as a class skill.*

Would this resolve the issue for you?

Differnce between getting something for free and forceing people to get a feat to represent their training :)

*Just to be clear as a GM I would never force this.


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137ben wrote:
"Real Campaigns?" Pretty sure I recall at least a few of those where Leadership was allowed. I think one of the cohorts in a 'Real Campaign' was called Joe Biden.

Nah, cohorts are usually competent.


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Apocalypso wrote:


So, I'm trying to figure out if there's any way this is RAW. Or if its just the GM rigging the game to make sure his NPCs always win.

99.99 percent likley GM Rigging.

The ghast COULD have been a caster the entire time and you just did not realize it. His sense motive roll could have known you were baiting him to jump followed by a knowledge roll knowing about SYlphs ability.

Or the GM could have just make a mistake about how rules work.

"Never attribute to malevolence what is merely due to incompetence”


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Frank Kyle wrote:

@ Ughbash

I had Sing, Dance, Percussion as my original draft. The thing is I want both Diplomacy and Bluff. When I added PotP into my build I had to decide which to take skill points in and which to use versatile performance with.

Ughbash wrote:
Instead max out Perform Sing or Comedy or Acting (I would do comedy and then at 6 take Perform Oratory.

The way your telling me here I would not have Diplomacy until Level 6. That is crippling in my honest opinion as Diplomacy is THE best social skill. I down grade intimidate to favor Bluff. If I go my route I'm looking at having Diplomacy, Sense motive, and Bluff as social skills. You way is giving me Bluff and Intimidate....not gaining sense motive and diplomacy till 6.

Well Peacock does not really come online til level 5... I was basing this all on bluff.

You could choose Perform Oratory at 2 and perform comedy at 6. Though this would mean delaying your fly/acrobatics til 10.

That would help you more on the Diplomacy side.

As for Prodigy... whoops I ment Savant.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you are starting at level 2. don't waste points on bluff.

Instead max out Perform Sing or Comedy or Acting (I would do comedy and then at 6 take Perform Oratory.

Use the heck out of Versatiel Performace.

I would also recommend the human racial feature Focuse Study.

Use your level 1 Skill focus for Perform Comedy, your level 8 one for Perfrom Oratory. Sadly in PFS you will not get ot use the levle 16 one.

Also consider the racial feat Silver tounged.

Consider the trait Prodigy as oneo fyor utwo starting traits.


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Solution is rather simple.

1) Buy any feat at level 1.
2) At level two spend some gold and downtime to retrain.

Note this is also how second level characters can get Dervish Dance.


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I'd convert them to modulo 26 before adding them together. Simplifies things immensely.


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Draco18s wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

I'm fairly certain there are creatures out there with far greater than 30 Charisma.

Also, wouldn't it need to be +20 higher to get it to move all those steps? (Provided you have a means of overcoming the limitations mentioned above of course.)

+15 extra, I forgot about that.

(The first step is free, it's +5 for every additional step and there's only 5 states (4 steps))

As for things with higher than 30 CHA: there might be. If so, it's effectively a god-level deity. 30 is a pretty effective limit for "normal people"* getting higher starts getting into "bonuses that stack and probably shouldn't at some point, because now we're cheesing the system."**

*18 + 2 (race) + 6 (enchantment) + 5 (ability points) = 31.

**Such as Genius Avaricious, which is basically cheating. +4 untyped bonus to Charisma for 3000 gold. Also immunity to poisons, disease, and aging.

You left out manual/tome.

18 Base +2 Race +6 Enhancement +5 Leveling +5 Book 36 Beyond that is more esoteric (+3 age ,+2 Succubus profane gift).


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+2 Int, +2 dex, Small.

Magus or Wizard.


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Here is an odd thought to help MAD characters.

Every 4 levels instead of +1 in the tsat of your choice, you get +1 in EVERY stat.

As you pointed out the strongest characters in the game only need 1 stat so this is minor buff to them while the weaker characers need multiple stats and this helps them more.


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I'd by the Playboy issue "Girls of Pathfinder" showing all the Female Iconics :)


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plaidwandering wrote:
Quote:
From there, my next thought is the Take 20 rules, which list "Perception (to search for traps)" as a common use of Take 20. That seems to at least imply that traps are something you would primarily be searching for.
They have used an illogical example, since by taking 20 to find a trap you would automatically set off the trap.

No it does not, searching for a trap never sets it off*, failing to disable it sets it off.

*possible argument that searching for a glyph will set it off.


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MurphysParadox wrote:
Well, some GMs don't let custom magic items exist and only let players buy or create items specified in the books. So that's a reason for the Ring of Jumping. You can also consider that Acrobatics is several very different skills kind of bunched up together in Pathfinder, so it really should be considered Jump and Tumble, at the least, thus +5 to two different uses.

Hey what about balance?


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Well as a cleric of Asmodeus you will detect as Evil.

May I suggest instead a "Priest of Asmodeus" (oracle).

Legalistic Curse could be in order to save your village you swore to serve the interess of Asmodeus. You serve his interests but look for ways to help others and hold him in check without violating your oath.

For mysteries Flame is the obvious one, but could also get away with Lore (as you seek knowledge of how to finish your contract), or even life (you took on the "sickness" of the village and purified it by taking the curse).

Always speak the truth, but what people hear may NOT be what they think they hear.

As you said, Cleric of Asmodeus has been done many times, this lets you put a different spin on it.


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How many points are your stats on.

If high point you have more flexibility.

If Low point value focus on wisdom as both casting stats.

If you are going more castery then consider MT. If you are going more combaty I would say Zen archer worshiping erastil.


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:


Much in the way that the discovery of bacteria didn't cure disease, it allowed scientists to change their understanding of the cause of disease (away from "demons" and "unbalanced humours") so they could finally work on targeting the actual problem (by dealing with germs rather than demons and humours).

A common misperception, bacteria are actually SMALL demons while Anti-Bacteria is obviously SMALL celestials. What it has allowed us to do is find appropriate celestials to fight the demons hidden in our bodies.

I KNOW this is true because I read it on the internet somewhere.


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Goblin Rogue or ninja.

Sneak in avoid everything... If the goal is to get in as far as you can not fight as far in as you can...


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Why? because a Succubus looks so cute when tied up on the bed.


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Kensai (magus) adds Int to AC up to class level.
Monk adds wis to AC.
Depending on stats monk may be viable as a dip.

If you are going to 30 or 40 I would suggest cleric 7/Wizard 23-33/MT10.

You will want the higher spell level to reliably punch SR for cr 35 to 45 monsters.

It is usually a bad idea to give up spell casting levels, most people say ALWAYS, but I say usually because each GM and Play group varies.


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What is your current build?


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Fetchystick wrote:
maybe for the .4 seconds between when you realize that you've been duped and when the club smacked you across the head. Probably enough time for a single free action.

As long as that free action is to think "Oh S#$@ I am so dead"


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DrDeth wrote:
TyrKnight wrote:
Well, you are paying a high material component cost to cast legend lore as a standard action. So it's not a problem.
Of course, then it's argued you can build a Wizard with a 50 str who can cast Wish for free via Blood Money, which "of course" (note sarcasm) is allowed in every game.

I am SOOOO TIRED of this argument popping UP...

Please if you are going to reuse this argument please at least make it accurate.

The wizard needs a str of 51 because at 0 str he would be paralyzed and unable to finish casting the spell!!!!!!


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To those who say while quoting JJ that you can not use the same ability twice, how do you feel about a level 2 paladin (charisma to all saves) who is also a level 1 Lore oracle with the mystery (Charisma to reflex saves instead of Dex). Lets say 20 charisma and 10 in all other stats.

Is reflex save +5 or +10?

According to JJ (who is not the rules guy) it is +10. This is an example of the same stat double stacking.

So if you wish to quote him saying that same stat does not stack, you should also quote him saying the same stat DOES stack.

James Jacobs


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Sarrah wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
At 2,000 gp, that's two and two-thirds wands. Will the character, in the course of owning this item, activate it more than 134 times?
My last campaign went from level 1 to level 16. 'Cure light wounds' was used hundreds of times. 134 times is low in long running campaigns.

But was it used more then 33,000 times?

The reason I picked that number was at 15 gold for a charge of cure light wand, the price you earlier selected 495,000 gold owuld be 33,000 charges.

Honeslty at level 16 I would seldom use Cure Light, but that is one of hte beauties of the game, not everyone plays the same way.

Usually what happens in our groups for healing depends on how many are injured. If a lot our injured we gahter around the cleric for a burst. If not many our injured we use wands most of the time (Lay on hands before wands often if paladins are present).

I am currently playing an Oracle of Life/Paladin in a game and I doubt I would get more the 200 uses of cure light in the life of the game assuming it goes to 20.

I guess the point I am trying to make is IF you think it is an acceptable item, it should be priced according to its value. Now wether you think you will use 100 charges of a wand or 1000 charges of a cure light wand base the item on what you think its effect will be.

I stated IMHO for my gaming group, 5000 would be reasonable. That comes to about 333 charges of cure light.


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Zhayne wrote:
Yes, and eliminating 'healing as daily resource' is not a good thing, IMFAO.

Perfectly valid opinion. But does not the prevalence of Cure Light wands already elimiate 'healing as a daily resource'?

Also just being nosy, I know IMO and IMHO not familiar with IMFAO?


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Ross Byers wrote:

In general 'at-will' items are priced equal to 5/day items (because you can use a 5/day item once in each fight). If you're going to be using an item much more than that per day, the pricing is probably wrong for the at-will version.

Spamming cure light wounds out of combat is supposed to be done with wands. If you're getting a much better deal than a wand of cure light wounds, the price is wrong.

At 2,000 gp, that's two and two-thirds wands. Will the character, in the course of owning this item, activate it more than 134 times?

That is the question. That is going to vary from campaign to campaign.

I think every GM who thinks about it rationally will have a differnt value for whait shoud be. For me 5k seems like a good price (100 times the cost of a cure light potion).

How often it will be used in a campaign depends on many variables. How often do you fight monsters above your CR, how many points were the heros built on, how well do the heroes work together, what is your group composition, how tactical are your companions.

The answers will vary for every group.

If you are a GM that thinks "Infinite downtime healing" is too powerful then by all means you are within you right to dissallow it. I don't even object to such an item not being allowed (though I am idly curious and enjoy debating why). To instead say Oh this item is fine but it shoud cost 5 million, or 500k is In my opinion just saying No with a little passive aggressiveness added.

My sugestion would be to experiment, allow the item in your game as a temporary loan from a diety... See how it effects your game. This lets you easily take it away if it is disruptive without breaking immersion.

To me it is like when Mystic Theurge first came out... Everyone talked about how the class was overpowered as it advanced two spell casting levels at once, but in reality it tended to lag on the power curve.


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James Risner wrote:
Ughbash wrote:
Ok, I'll bite... what is the reason?

The game's whole design is each encounter of equal CR should use 25 % of your daily resources. Healing is considered a resource. If you have a way to not expend 25 % of your daily resources in an encounter, then you break the fundamental design of them game. This is also true for allowing your PC's to sleep in between encounters. Both allow them to use more than 25% of their daily resources in an encounter, which allows them to have safer encounters of much higher than their CR. Which breaks the system.

Very good point, however the resources used tends to vary from group to group. A group that is hihgly optimized may use 10% of their resources while a group that is a useless mishmash, might use 50% or more (you should never wipe to a appropraite CR critter but some will due to undercons or bad luck or something else).

Healing or HP is also not the "only resource". Yes you refresh that one resource but your other resources arcane spells daily abulities such as smite etc are still used. In fact depending on level and classes yo umay wind up using some healing resources in fights.. a CLW is not going to cut it.

As for not allowing your PC's to sleep, I imagine there are GM's who will force encoutners on PC's who decide to hole up and rest and there are some wandering encounters... but that tends ot just maek PC's hole up earlier. Later it becomes harder to not allow the PC's to rest (unless you have story reasons why they must hurry) as they can use Extended Rope trick, Secure shelter, and eventualy Magnificent Mansion to rest when they need to.

I see the ring of unlimited healing as just as beneficial to the GM as it is to the players as it helps move things along. In the group I play with it is not uncommon for 2 or 3 wands of cure light wounds to be carried by the players. This also takes you beyond 4 encouters per day. I find the flexibility it privides to be a good thing.

Again I see the Ring as something that is useful BETWEEN encounters and allows a party to push on farther without carrying half a dozen cure light wands.

Caveat: I've never crafted such a ring, we tend to craft wands of cure light but I would not be opposed to such an item if I was running, and might even include it in treasure if the party was low on healing.


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Zhayne wrote:
You shouldn't allow the item at all. Unlimited healing isn't in the game for a reason.

Ok, I'll bite... what is the reason?


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Lifat wrote:


Got to agree with James here. Of course the most important rule in this section of rules is GM fiat. He/she is supposed to modify costs of custom items to balance them. If my group asked something similar I would point them to Healing Belt and allow that. Or tell them the ring would be 3/day at 2k, or endless at 100k. If the group pays 100k I can live with them having the ring.

Pointing them to the belt is perfectly reasonable. But if they can buy htebelt why would they even consider a ring for 2k?

Belt provides 3 charges at 2d8 (and has options for faster healign at extra charges) for 750.

Why would anyone pay 2000 for 3 charges of 1d8+1?

Now a wand of Cure light (50 charge) is 750.

Now I realize some people belive that unlimited healing is far too powerful, I disagree, but can live with that option with no problem. If it is allowed though it should be priced semi reasonably... and oen person suggewting 5 million+ for a bauble is not reasonable for a low level magic item.

Now we need to find a balance.... I am going to assume that noone objects to wands of cure light being priced at 750.

Lets see what a 5 charge per day item would cost.
Command word Activated "Be Healed Brother as you slap them on the forhead" (1800 x 1 x 1) x (5/5) = 1800.

Same thing with 3 charges per day (1800 x 1 x 1) x (3/5) = 1080.

From this we see the belt of healing is a bargain (and why it was commonly bought at low level).

Now lets make it use activated instead of a word (choose primarily for humor). (2000 x 1 x 1) x (5/5) = 2000 for a 5 charge item or (2000 x 1 x 1) x (3/5) = 1200 for a 3 charge item.

Now I would still consider 5k or so perfectly fine for a unlimited charge cure light based on how it will effect game play, but would anyone object to the 3 or 5 charge items here at the price listed?

Again this is a DOWNTIME item, it really has VERY limited use in combat. Even at level 1 and certianly by level 3 I would expect someone to be more usful to a group then casting a cure light each round on one person.

EDIT: I just noticed footnote 4 (though I do not see where the 4 is in the table) If item is continuous or unlimited, not charged, determine cost as if it had 100 charges. If it has some daily limit, determine as if it had 50 charges.

So take a potion of cure light (which anyone can use with no UMD roll) at 50 gold. Multipy it by 100 (for charges) and you get 5k.

Again that is about what I would value said item at.


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voska66 wrote:

This item would cost 5,760,000 gp.

Here's the math. Take ring and with a spell of cure light wounds which is an instantaneous spell duration. So the Spell Level x Caster level x 2000 for 1 level spell with caster level 1 is 2000 gp. Now this is an instantaneous spell with no duration. To make it unlimited as it is use activated spell you need 14400 charges per day. This would be by the time you used up all the charges you have another 14400 use the next day. Basically unlimited.

Now now for charges per day you take 5 divided by 14400 which gives you 3.4722222222222222e-4 and you take 2000 and divide it by that number. You end up with 5,760,000.

Now go with 5 charges per day and for 2000 gp. Much cheaper. 50 Charges for 20,000 gp.

Math is way off.

The base cost you listed at 2000 is UNLIMITED Charges... then you added charges per day. Using your logic a +1 sword (2000 gp cost) could be used 4 times every round should cost over 20 million.

With that said like ANY CUSTOM MAGIC ITEM should be subject to GM approval. A ring of Cure light is basically something that will be useful to a low levle party, IMHO itshould br priced accordingly.


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Cost is always a touchy subject.

Ring of regneration is slower and does not take an action. It will also bring you back from the dead (assuming that has not changed from 3.5).

A wand of cure lights costs 750 for 50 charges.

A "reasonable" pricing in my mind would be to multiply that by 5.

However another option would be it is "priceless" and have them FIND the item in loot, perhaps on the body of an Ogre who had a reputation as a survivor, who always comes back the next day "recovered" from his wounds.


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The contrarian point of view (which I subscribe to)says a ring of cure light wounds is not big deal.

It lets the party heal up after a fight, big deal. If you are in hte middle of a fight you have better things to do then be spending a standard action to do 1d8+1 healing to someone.

So basically the ring saves on downtime.

Ideally a party does 4 encounters on a "adventuring day". Realistically when a party gets low on HP they hole up. This would let them restore HP (though they will still want to hole up if low on spells). A ring such as this may increase the staying power of a party so they do 5 encounters a day instead of four.

So as far as I am concerned, it is not a big deal.


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Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
Having never run a gestalt game let me ask you those of you that have, is it a nightmare to run? I feel like it could be. I like the idea of it but I would imagine you'd have to throw some really powerful enemies at your players to make it work.

I ran one as a high powered campaign. While the limit of action economy stopped them from being true offensive powerhouses and it started at level 1 they defintely had better defense and more staying power.

Another GM ran a Eastern style Gestalt... Everyone was a monk + 1 class. Sadly that was run during the week so I did not get to play in that one however all seemed to have fun with it.


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Excaliburproxy wrote:

I am talking late game. And if your dex is high enough, even a wis of 2 and some bracers of armor (weight 1) will outpace any armor in cost efficiency of defense eventually.

Early game, you buy a mule and wear the ponderous 10 lbs of padded armor.

MOnks robe no longer gives wis to ac for non monks.

Bracers of armor are not as good as regular armor even armor that has no max dex.*

In 3.5 that may have been the case it is no longer true in pathfinder.

*They can get a higher AC however however they do not provided the other enhancement bonuses and maintain that AC. They are enchantable only to +8 while armor is +10.

Example Bracers of Armor +8 give +8 AC and nothing else.

Silken Ceremonial Armor +5 gives 6 AC but also can be further enchanted with Heav Foritification or 5 other enhancements.

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