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Ughbash's page

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 1,486 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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It is a 2 handed weapon. Elves have an ability to use it as a martial weapon rather then a Exotic weapon, but in ALL cases it is a 2 handed weapon.

So an elf who by class gets all martial weapons can use it two handed.

A non-elf who spends a feat on Exotic Weapon proficiency Elven Curve blade could use it two handed.

Anyone else can use it two handed but they would take the -4 penalty to hit for using a weapon they were not proficient in.

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As per that chart, the Elven Curve blade is a two handed weapon that requires the feat Exotic weapon to use. There is no conflict.

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Focused trance can depend on flavor of all things.

While I agree that the correct answer is what is the DC and htey get a +20 to the DC how you flavor it may give you an idea of how ot respond.

Option 1) Probably most peoples flavor. By going into this trance you put yoru mind in a state of total recall and analysis. You rapidly go through all your memories often correlating things that at first glance might not have had an obvious connection to come up with a deeper understanding.

Option 2) Lore oracle received his power when he first drew aside the curtain between this realm and knowledge. Many people have used an artifact "The codex of the infinite planes" as a filter to view thsi knowledge but you somehow saw it as truth unfiltered. Now you are deaf, not because your ears do not hear, but because untold voices are speaking to you all the time overwhelming your hearing with so much information. Sometimes though you can with great concentration slip into a "Focused trance" and tune out many of the distracting voices for a moment and hear the truth of what you are searching for.

Btw, what gets interesting by level 3 is a Lore oracle 1/Archivist bard 2.

Assume a 20 int and a 13 charisma (if 20 point buy)

Level 1 Oracle Focused trance mystery Feat extra Mystery Think on it again.
Level 2 bard (Archivist 1)
Level 3 bard (Archivist 2)can take 20 on Knowledge checks.

You can now make a second lore roll on somethign you failed with a +10 bonus, use focused trance with that for +20, and use the archivist ability ot take 20. So your roll is 50 + Skill with that knowledge.

You ARE knowledge.

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I am considering a character for a campaign that will start off as students in arcane academy. I am considering focusing the character on crafting.

Possible ideas:

Mystic Theurge (early access) Advantage access to Divine and arcane magic.

Wizard access to lots of arcane spells and the Discovery "Wand Like Staff".

Arcanist (bloodline) Lots of spells known, with Arcane bloodline at level 20 can use spell levels instead of charges.

All of them work fine for your basic craft wondrous or arms and armor since you can bypass requirements with a +5... but which overall would be the best?

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While probably (read definitely) excessive.

Assume a bard takes Improved Eldritch Heritage Arcane.

Let's say he picks "See Invisibility" as his spell. This is a Sorceror/Wizard 2 but also bard 3.

By my understaning he picks a sorceror spell but since it is ALSO on his list he should now be able to cast "See Invisibility" as a second level spell instead of third.

Is this correct?

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Canthin wrote:

Personally, I think that if someone wanted to spend three feats over the course of 11 levels in order to add a 4th level or lower spell that they normally wouldn't be able to cast, (and then a 6th or lower at 15th, and an 8th or lower at 19th) I would be fine with that.

Just a note if you are a sorceror, and take Improved Eldrith Heritage with your 19th level feat. You could add 3 level 9 spells to your list.

Also if an Arcane Sorceror takes a level of Loremaster or any other prestige class to delay his reaching the level 9 bloodline power he can select a higher level spell. After all with one level of Loremaster he has 5th level spells when he get the 9th level ability. This also means when he reaches 17th level and gets the last free spell he will be a 18th level caster and can thus select a 9th level spell.

One of the few cases where not advancing a bloodline HELPS you.

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Canthin wrote:

I still don't understand how this "works". Could be someone cast Invisibility on the Elephant in the room (or I'm just very blind), but I've been trying to understand the relationship between Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) and Paragon Surge, and Expanded Arcana, and I got nothing.

A Half-Elf Oracle can already choose Paragon Surge as a 3rd level spell without any feats needed, so the problem can't be giving an Oracle access to that spell.

An Oracle can already choose Expanded Aracana, so the problem can't be with that feat (it specifically says you have to choose a spell from your list).

If an Oracle chooses Paragon Surge using Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane), this FAQ still doesn't prevent them from casting it (since it is on the Sorcerer list, thus valid to choose, and also on the Oracle list, thus valid to cast according to the FAQ).

So it seems the only thing the FAQ is saying is "An Oracle can't choose a spell that isn't already on their list with Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) if they want to cast it." Which doesn't seem that outlandish to me. There are still plenty of spells that are on both lists that prevent the feat from being "worthless".

Personally, I think that if someone wanted to spend three feats over the course of 11 levels in order to add a 4th level or lower spell that they normally wouldn't be able to cast, (and then a 6th or lower at 15th, and an 8th or lower at 19th) I would be fine with that.

The trick is (or was) this.

1/2 elf oracle gets skill focus and eldrith heritage but does NOT get Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane).

1/2 elf oracle then casts paragon surge (which is on his list) to temporarily get the feat Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane). That fea t lets him pick 1 to 3 Sorceror spells depending on his level which he knows. Before it was Faqed to not allow Sorceror/Wizard spells it allowed an Oracle to cast a 3rd level spell to have any other spell ready the next round (up to the level he could cast). To be SLIGHLTY more abusive take Spell casting Mastery (Paragon Surge) and quicken Paragon surge to cast the spell you want when you want.

Now this has been nerfed two ways.

Nerf 1) if you use paragon surge multiple times in a day to get new spells it will give you the same spells each time.

Nerf 2) it now only gives you spells that are on your list. If you want to have paragon Surge add spells from both the Sorceror and Oracle list you shoud consider Mystic Theurge.

Having PLAYED a half elven oracle with Paragon surge (pre-nerf) in a 1 shot level 20 game (OK about 4 or 5 sessions but one adventure). It was fun, but I ran through my level 3 slots very quickly.

Still I had a blast :)

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Imbicatus wrote:

I could see a really effective and cohesive all-evil group of Dexter Morgan (investigator/assassin), Walter White(Alchemist), Gaius Balthar(bard), and Magneto(wizard). They are all clearly evil but who are capable of working with others to meet their goals.

Riddick would be good to add too, if he could get over his signifigant Loner issues.

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I THINK SR applies..... but it is ambiguous enough I am not certain. So I will FAQ.

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Anohter option is to use the rules in Appendix of th eBestiary, Monsters as PC's.

bestiary wrote:

For monsters with racial Hit Dice, the best way to allow monster PCs is to pick a CR and allow all of the players to make characters using monsters of that CR. Treat the monster’s CR as its total class levels and allow the characters to multiclass into the core classes. Do not advance such monsters by adding Hit Dice. Monster PCs

should only advance through classes. If you are including a single monster character in a group of standard characters, make sure the group is of a level that is at least as high as the monster’s CR. Treat the monster’s CR as class levels when determining the monster PC’s overall levels. For example, in a group of 6th-level characters, a minotaur (CR 4) would possess 2 levels of a core class, such as barbarian.

Since an ogre is CR 3 a level 1 Fighter Ogre would be a 4th level character. He get some extra Hitdice, but looses quite a bit also.

Stat Adjustments would be
Str +10
Dex -2
Con +4
Int -4
wis +0
Cha -4

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Rats... too late to edit my post but a minor correction.

A level 5 caster would need a spellcraft 25 not 20 to make a +5 sword.

15 (caster level) +5 (standard enchanting) +5 (overcoming math requirement) = 25

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Weirdo wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
However, it still doesn't stop a +5 Elf-Bane Holy Wounding weapon from providing a +7 to hit and damage vs. elves (or counting as a +12 equivalent weapon).

First FAQ: "The +10 bonus-equivalent limitation is a hard cap for all weapons; you can't exceed that even with class abilities or other unusual abilities."

If +10 is a hard cap you can never have a weapon that temporarily counts as +12.

This is probably not the intended interaction of those two rules since if it was, it should have been clarified in the first FAQ that bane increased the weapon's total bonus equivalent and is, like class abilities and "unusual abilities," subject to the hard cap.

But they do interact in this way.

Wierdo, +10 is a hard cap and can not be bypassed by class abilities such as a paladin adding divine bond or greater magic weapon cast on a +1 sword vorpal of speed. However this hardcap is for Enchantment levels on an item.

Bane for this purpose ALWAYS counts as +1.

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Jeff Merola wrote:
NikolaiJuno wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
It says that no weapon can be higher than +10, regardless, not +10 but Bane can make it bigger.
Bane isn't making it bigger . Bane costs +1, the cost of Banes effect only ever costs +1.
Reread what I've already posted. The official ruling is that Bane is a +1 Effective normally, but a +3 Effective against its target.

Not quite....

What you posted is bane is +1 but is EFFECTIVELY +3 FOR OVERCOMING DAMAGE REDUCTION.

A +4 Vorpal ElfBane weapon by what you wrote will overcome DR as if it was +6, but it is at all times a +10 total bonuses weapon.

Against most creatures it would be effectively a +4 vorpal, while against elves it would EFFECTIVELY be a +6 vorpal with +2d6 bonus dmage.

It is still either way a +10 weapon, it would not loose it's vorpal quality against an elf.

Nicolai is correct in his interpretation.

Link to Faq quoted below

Core rulebook FAQ wrote:

Weapon Bonuses: Can weapon special abilities (such as bane) or class abilities (such as a paladin's divine bond) allow you to exceed the +5 enhancement bonus limit and the +10 bonus-equivalent limitation?

For the enhancement bonus limitation, it depends on the specific effect or ability that's altering the weapon.

Bane: This allows the weapon to exceed the +5 limit, but only against the designated creature type. For example, a +5 dragon-bane longsword is normally a +5 weapon, but has a +7 enhancement bonus against dragons and deals +2d6 points of damage against dragons.

Paladin: The divine bond ability says "These [enhancement] bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5." That means if a paladin has a +5 longsword, she can't use her divine bond to increate the enhancement bonus to +6 or higher (but she could use her bonuses to add abilities such as flaming to the weapon).

The +10 bonus-equivalent limitation is a hard cap for all weapons; you can't exceed that even with class abilities or other unusual abilities.

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Azih wrote:
Fair enough, point taken. Even still though, I think humans are built more for ambiguity than clarity. Sometimes we can't even agree on what the definition of is is.

Thats an easy one... It IS what it IS.

Though we can still wonder at this point what differnce it makes. :)

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Caster level is just to set DC, EVEN WITH Magic arms/armor. A 5th level wizard could create a +5 sword with a DC 20 spellcraft check (CL 15 +5 ).

The real limit is wealth which is controlled by the GM.

Enchanting FAQ wrote:

Crafting and Bypassing Requirements: What crafting requirements can you bypass by adding +5 to the DC of your Spellcraft check?

As presented on page 549 of the Core Rulebook, there are no limitations other than (1) you have to have the item creation feat, and (2) you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites. So racial requirements, specific spell requirements, math requirements (such as "caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus"), and so on, are all subject to the +5 DC rule.

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James Risner wrote:
Ughbash wrote:
While the FAQ has now answered the question and agrees with you, it seemed that MANY people wanted to take a victory lap and say it was always this way and perfectly clear to anyone who was not purposely misreading the rules. I was not purposely misreading the rules, there WAS legitimate reason to view it that way

I'm always the champion of legitimately reading the rules. I assert in most threads that there are two RAW's.

You really need to tell the people that shared your view to quite coming into threads and saying "it makes no sense", which is basically bemoaning the fact they were wrong. That type of behavior begs someone to come in and correct them by saying there were a lot of people who it did make sense.

This isn't a victory lap, this is a correction of a statement.

I probably did come off as harsh and sarcastic, I quite often agree with you, though not always. I agree that RAW can be vauge (as I assume you are saying with 2 RAW'S).

What set me off this time was the remark that paraphrasing here, everyone else saw it was obvious.

Kain Darkwind and a few others made some well reasoned points for the other side. Kain is someone I consider a thoughtful poster and often contributes well. The examples I showed at least showed some "confusion" of the issue within Paizo in order to show it was not a OBVIOUS misreading by people on the other side.

In that VERY long thread, there were people on both sides who tried to argue the other side was stupid. While I disagree with the conclusion, and think it was an over-reaction to "monk/sacred fist" that creates more problems then it fixes I can see the other sides point of view.

I would have preferred a more limited answer which showed a distinction between stacking a stat as a bonus (Monk/Sacred fist), and useing one as a bonus and one as a replacement (Undead AntiPaladin, Paladin/Oracle and several others).

But you are quite correct on two things.

1) The FAQ has been done and answered the question so now it is RAW. (home games can do what they want with it and we do).

2) There were many on both sides who argued incessantly and immaturely both before and after the FAQ, and that detracts from everyones enjoyment of the message board.

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Azih wrote:

I don't know. Even with actual real life laws which are written to try to be as clear and unambiguous as possible you still need Common or Civil Law type processes or procedures to figure out how they actually apply to real life situations and multiple levels of courts to hear appeals.

I just don't see a situation where we won't have ambiguity to deal with.

Isn't MTG a whole hell of a lot more structured of a game than RPGs are also?

Quite arguably new laws are NOT written to be clear.

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James Risner wrote:
graystone wrote:
James Risner wrote:
I'm pretty sure to all the other people over the years that said they don't stack together.
ALL the other people over the years thought that stat bonuses had two sources? I call shenanigans.

There have been more than I can count on fingers and toes of debates over things like Double Dex to Damage, Double Wis to AC, etc. over the years. James Jacobs has answered it many times and was rejected as "not a rules guy" every time by the folks that believed it worked.

You can't have a debate without people on both sides. So the "all those people" and "over the years" is the most correct and acceptable words to use to indicate them.

James also in the same thread talking about Fury's fall and 2x dex said that Oracle side step secret and Paladin Divine Grace DID work. Which the FAQ now says does not.

James Jacobs wrote:
Ughbash wrote:

With not being able to count a stat twice.

I am curious how that interacts with a Paladin/Oracle or Lore.

Example Paladin 3/ Oracle 3 and the Oracle has the mystery "side Step secret" which has him use his Charisma instead of dex for refelx saves.

Lets say the paladin has a dex of 12 and a charisma of 18.

What is his reflex save from stat mods.

The way I had read it before, he got +8 (Charisma from divine grace +4 and Charism INSTEAD of DEx from Side Step Secret +4.)

Now I can see it as +4 (divine grace but he can not add his charisma again) or +5 (Divine grace +4, but he can not add his charisma as base stat but instead still gets his dex). If the latter is the case the Mystery will actually make his save worse.

Divine grace grants an untyped bonus to all saving throws equal to the paladin's Charisma modifier—in this case, the ability specifically calls this bonus a bonus, and by leaving it untyped, the bonus from divine grace stacks with everything. It does not replace existing modifiers to saving throws gained from stats.

A paladin/oracle with that combination would indeed replace his Dex modifier with his Cha modifier for Reflex saves, and then when he gains divine grace, adds a bonus equal to his Cha modifier to all his saves.

It's not technically adding the ability score modifier twice, in any case.

A paladin/oracle with that combination would indeed replace his Dex modifier with his Cha modifier for Reflex saves, and then when he gains divine grace, adds a bonus equal to his Cha modifier to all his saves.

It's not technically adding the ability score modifier twice, in any case.

That, and Undead Anti Paladins are two instances that show it was not quite as clear cut as you indicated with the comment

To me it made perfect sense, and I'm pretty sure to all the other people over the years that said they don't stack together.

I was, obviously, on the other side of the argument, I assuemed that they DID stack in some cases (Where one replaced a stat and one added to a stat). Example would be again undead anti-paladin and Fortitude save or Lore Oracle/Paladin and Reflex save.

While the FAQ has now answered the question and agrees with you, it seemed that MANY people wanted to take a victory lap and say it was always this way and perfectly clear to anyone who was not purposely misreading the rules. I was not purposely misreading the rules, there WAS legitimate reason to view it that way. The rules now changed (my view) or has been interpretted (I assume your view) to clarify it.

Your view is now correct but please do not insult those of us who had a legitimate reading of the rules before the faq by implying our view was a tortured representation of something very clear.

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Ssyvan wrote:

If it's useful then it would describe accurately which option is better than which.

Example using (edit: EXTREME) simplifications to illustrate a point:

Attack Option 1: Hits 100% for a static 10 damage.
Attack Option 2: Hits 5% of the time for a static 10000 damage.

That makes:
Attack Option 1 DPR: 10
Attack Option 2 DPR: 500

Now say you're fighting someone with 10 hp, which option is better?

DPR would tell me option 2, but it is wrong.

Lets do a similar extreme as you say example.

Attack option 1: Hits 100% for static 10 damage.
Attack option 2: Hits 5% of the time for static 20 damage.

That makes:
Attack option 1 DPR: 10
Attack option 2 DPR: 1

Now lets say you are fighting someone with 10 HP and 10 DR, which option is better.

DPR tells me option 1, but option 2 is better.

Does this mean DPR is wrong, accuracy is irrelevant and MASSIVE DAMAGE is all that matters? or does it tell me I picked a crappy example :)

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Well Luck bonuses never stacked, higher took effect.
Sacred never stacked, Higher took effect.

You are correct that stats do not stack within the same bonus (any bonus not just untyped) however they DO still stack with different bonuses.

So the point I made that if you had Charisma to save via, Racial, Sacred, Luck and Untyped you would still have 4x charisma to save.

If you get Charisma to AC as a Racial bonus, as a Sacred bonus, as a Dodge bonus, as an untyped bonus you will still have 4x charisma to AC.

However if you then found another way to get an untyped bonus or a dodge bonus to AC from Charisma, even though untyped and dodge usualy stack they would not in this case.

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OK as was mentioned many times in the very long thread, even PAIZO thought that you could double dip Charisma to saves for all their undead anti-paladins.

And the FAQ only applies to UNTYPED Bonuses.

If you had for example (making stuff up here to prove a point).
A Feat that added your Charisma as a LUCK bonus to your saves, Divine grace as a paladin (Charisma to saves UNTYPED), a feat that added your Charisma as a SACRED bonus to saves, and a race that had a RACIAL bonus of Charisma to save.

By the rules you would now have 4x Charisma to saves.

The FAQ very specifically only changed UNTYPED bonuses.

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No, those are Wizard only and not available to Sorceror's, Alchemsints or Arcanists (Unless some Archetype I am unaware of allows them to qualify).

Even prestige classes stop progression, for example a wizard 10/Loremaster 10 would not qualify for the Immortal Discovery which requires wizard 20.

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Markdoc wrote:

For advancing past Mystic Theurge, Exalted is excellent, given that (unlike evangelist) it doesn't lose another casting level. I don't think you can use it to advance MT past level 10 - after all, it's a 10 level class: what's to advance? You could, of course, use it on your original class. But one other trick you might like to consider is using it (or similar prestige classes) to advance MT itself. The level 10 MT capstone is very, very nice, but the only other thing you get (Combined spell) is kind of underwhelming. There are times when it will be very useful, but most of the time, you're likely to just use your spells as-is. Using - say - Exalted to advance MT gives you several great class powers, a better BAB and hit dice ... and RAW still advances your dual casting progression.

The problem with using exalted over Evangelist is it advances DIVINE casting not the Mystic theurge casting. That is why Evangelist is so nice.

As for the legality of Evangelist going pat 10 it is ARGUABLE, and requires a history lesson.

Pathfinder DOES have rules for going past 20 in the core rule book(starting at page 406). Going back to 3.5 Epic Rules if you had a 10 level prestige class you could continue in it after level 20. So by that logic you could ARGUABLY advance spell casting with evangelist since Theurge casting goes past 10 and you are not taking more than 10 levels of Theurge (though you are taking virtual levels). Reasonable minds can disagree and often do.

WITH that said, in 3.5, for EPIC Theurge the levels after 10 alternated between advancing Arcane and divine. As it was written Theurge sucked at epic.

Now you could argue that Paizo changed that progression in core rule books when it says:

Core rulebook pg 407 wrote:

Spells: A spellcaster’s caster level continues to increase

by one for each level beyond 20th level. Every oddnumbered level, a spellcaster gains access to a new level of spell one above his previous maximum level, gaining one spell slot in that new level. These spell slots can be used to prepare or cast spells adjusted by metamagic feats
or any known spell of lower levels. Every even-numbered level, a spellcaster gains additional spell slots equal to the highest level spell he can currently cast. He can split these new slots any way he wants among the slots he currently has access to.

Again reasonable minds can disagree, I suggest talk to your GM.

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Oddly enough in 3.5 ,or at least the Forgotten Realms setting, they DID require multiple Knowledge Locals (Players guide to Faerun) and had 30 to 40 or so different knowledge Locals.

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There is a trait, "birthmark" that gives you a birthmark that works as a holy symbol. With that you COULD possibly hold forth a holy symbol of another diety and cast your spell.

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Real World physics does not always need to confer to your world.

I ran a world once where there was no sun, and had not been for 1000 years (The long term goal was to rescue the soul of Pelor from the Abyss and return the sun). People became nocturnal and were up and did their work by moonlight. A player said how can the moon have light if there is no sun. I said the moon (and the goddess of the moon) creates it's own light, it is NOT just a reflection of the sun.

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LazarX wrote:

Quickened spells are not an issue for ASF.

Do you have a quote for that?

I know it was the case in 3.5 but I thougth pathfinder changed the wording on Quicken.

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OK, lets for example take the Half-Celestial Template.
CR: HD 5 or less, as base creature + 1; HD 6–10, as base creature + 2; HD 11 or more, as base creature + 3.

So unless the characters are starting at level 2 say no. If you are newish to running say No anyways, as it will cause some issues.

When the Character gets to level 5 (everyone else should be level 6) his CR goes to +2 HOWEVER he has enough character levels to buy it down to 1 (as per Monsters as PC's) Appendix 4 in the bestiary. So he continues to level and just atay one level behind.

At level 10 (when everyone else is level 11) he should add one mor eto his CR. Since it is not reduced below half (round up) he now effectivley adds 1 more to his level.

This can be done one of two ways.
Option 1) Everyone levels to 11, he stays at level 9. He is now SLIGHTLY below everyone for one level.

Option 2) Everyone levels to 11, he goes to 10 and then when everyone levels to 12, he stays at 10. He will now be SLIGHTLY above everyone for one level.

I would run it as Option 1 because the player is choosing the template.

BIG CAVEAT: With that said, not all templates are equal just as not all classes or monster races are equal. If you allow players to do this you may end up opening a can of worms where either the template/Race meshes extremely well making it an overpowered combination or the template/Race does not mesh at all making it a very Underpowered combination. IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS IT WILL REQUIRE MORE WORK FROM THE GM BALANCING NOT ONLY ENCOUNTERS BUT THE PARTY.

With that said for players it can be lots of fun and I am particularly fond of Rogues who are racially Advanced Dopplegangers:)

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dave côté 833 wrote:


How do you deal with RD if you make a broadside attack with your ship?

Generally by quoting the rules and doing research to point out that he is misreading something to create a loophole..... Wait we are talking about RavingDork right?

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This is similar to the nerf they did to Paragon Surge.

Prior to nerf you could take a feat that gave you extra spells known. Cast them, then cast paragon surge ot take the same feat with differnt spells. They ruled that whenver you cast paragon surge that day, the feat is the same (and that if you choose spells with it they are the same also).

This is just another method of doing the same thing as Paragon Surge.

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YIDM wrote:

Would not work.

Paladin Ability: A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on
a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine
if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having
studied it for 3 rounds.

As a move action concentrate on a single item or individual. The first part where you used a standard action of detect evil does not give you a single item. It only gives you wether there is the presence of evil in that 60' cone.

How so? I use a standard to cast detect evil spell-like ability, then as a move action, to "concentrate" on a single individual as if studied for 3 rounds. Or even, the following round, use a move action to "concentrate" on the individual whose evil presence I detected the round before...


What am I missing here?


You use a single action to detect evil and see that there is evil somwhere in that 60' cone in front of you.

At this point you have not yet determined a single person or individual ot concentrate on as a move action. You know thats somewhere out there there is at least one evil creature or item, but you do not know where so you can not targe tit.

If for example there were three evil invisible creatures, which would you target? (Your detect evil would read the same after one round wether one or three targets) You would need more information and an actual TARGET to use the move action ability of a paladin.

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Uwotm8 wrote:

Actually, no, it still wouldn't work.


A toppling spell only affects spells with the force descriptor.

I glanced at it before just to make sure it mentioned "damage" but didn't see that sentence. Havoc of the society doesn't give that. Still, using magic missile you can target multiple opponents.

Thank you, you are correct I had misread it.

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Uwotm8 wrote:

On your build, you could give them the Toppling Spell metamagic feat and fireball. :P

That should help make a fight versus 9 PCs a tad easier.

Toppling spell requires force damage not just damage. There is however a trait (pathfinder something or other) which adds 1 point of force damage to all your spells.

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Well if you want the ambush to go off successfully I would recommend giving the casters Silent Spell.

Hmm but then it would take a full rould to cast a spell not the standard action....

4 invisible casters coordinating theire spells seems unlikley when none of them have See invisible.

Should consider giving them freedom of Movement so they can go into the black tentacles with impunity.

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YIDM wrote:
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

The paladin's instant detect evil is certainly more problematic.

I actually used a paladin's detect evil ability to great use to find an enemy with total concealment attacking our party. I first used detect evil as a standard action to sense the cone area (and picked the correct area for my cone). I sensed the presence of evil within the cone, then spent a move action (per the paladin ability) to locate the square the evil creature was in...then proceeded to yell out a quick location "behind you, to the left" as a free action.

My party then made short work of the enemy after doing this for a few rounds.


Would not work.

Paladin Ability: A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on
a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine
if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having
studied it for 3 rounds.

As a move action concentrate on a single item or individual. The first part where you used a standard action of detect evil does not give you a single item. It only gives you wether there is the presence of evil in that 60' cone.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Color spray says it is a cone shaped burst.

Widen spell works on bursts.

But I THINK due to the fact the 15' is in the range it does not work RAW (though I think it should and would be balanced).

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Cone spells have certain unique qualities about them.

1) they alway orginate at the hand of the caster so while it may have a 15' range, it does not start at that range but instead at teh caster and extends out in a cone shape to that max range.

2) While they cover an area, it is based off the template rather then a radius or square.

So could a Cone spell ,lets use color spray as an example, be modified my the metamagic Reach allowing it to start at Short distance and go out as a cone from a point 25' from the caster?

Could the metamagic Widen be used to change color spray from a 15' cone to a 30' cone despite the fact area is stated as "cone shaped burst" rather then 20' radius spread.

If neihter of these work (and I supsect they do not) SHOULD there be a way of modifying a cone spell?

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Oread monk.. Rocky Balboulder
Halfling Monk... Grasshobbit also known as Bilbo "Hairfoot" Wallace

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Multiple knowledge checks is fine in a round.

With that said you were verbally giving the infomration to other party members. While it is a free action to speak, it is well within the GM's rights to limit how much you can say in a round.

Even if you have War and Peace memorized... I am not letting you quote it all in one round.

In your case you said he gave you detailed infomration about the elementals, which you passed on to the rest of the party. There is only so much you can pass on verbally in one round.

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IMHO it oversteps.

A peson can not just purposefully forget something, suggestion makes them do something they can do.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

OK grease has an area of a 10' square. Below is an example of an 8 square by 8 square are with a grease spell in it.


You can not take a 5' step if the area you are moving INTO is difficult terrain or slows you down. In fact I belive for all movement it is based on the square you are moving into.

Since everywhere in a standard grease spell (assuming no walls or other obstacles or rough terrain or snare spells) there is a Normal square next to it can someone just 5' step out of grease?

Can they MOVE Action or Charge out of grease (assumign straight line and the only grease hex is the one they start in) not even worrying about half speed since the squares they are using for their entire move are not greased?

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Silver Surfer wrote:
Both!!.... Take a 1 lvl monk dip and watch your AC go skywards as your Wis improves and with acrobatics as a class skill and some skill point investment have excellent mobility too.... Travel domain with +10 speed combined with expeditious retreat (+30 speed) and you will be able to escape just about any tricky situation!.....a 70ft base speed = +16 modifier on acrobatics checks!!! You should easily be able to achieve with some skill points +25 on Acrobatics checks....

Monk increased move is Enhancement bonus as is Expeditious Retreat so they do not stack. The Acrobatic check is ONLY for jumping, not for tumbling into position or balance.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nessus_9th wrote:
Well the question was per RAW, but I believe that a 200,000 gp limit is very reasonable. The reason I asked originally is because I am currently playing a "scarred witch doctor" archetype so I can fashion my fetish mask as a wondrous item I am already like 75,000 gp into it and wanted to know just how far I could push it. My GM is not the most experienced so I have to set my own limits because he probably wouldn't do so himself.

Remeber that each ability beyond hte most expensive (some say first) costs 1.5 normal cost. I find that is enough of a limiting factor to stop things going to far (assuming close to stadard wealth by level).

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As was said, the 200k limit was in 3.5 and was cut when bringing over the rules to pathfinder.

So by the rules there is nothing wrong with having a quarterstaff with +10 worth of enchantments on each side valued at 400k.

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OK I am about to do something EVIL here....

Lets look at the physics of it.....

I am going to make a COUPLE assumptions but will go back later.

First we need to determine how fast the fireball moves. Lets look at a SLOW version it oculd arguably go faster. Lets assume the 6 seconds of a round is 2 seconds for a move action and 4 for a standard. This makes the fireball slower then 3 and 3. Lets also assume that the standard action is broken down into 3 seconds of casting, and 2 seconds for the fireball to reach its destination at maximum range.

Level 10 caster fireball (10d6) range 800ft so traveling 400 ft per second or about 270 miles per hour.

Level 5 caster fireball 440 ft so traveling 220 ft per second or about 150 MPH.

These are WAY too fast to run over and get in front of after it is cast (possible exception of hero points). It is liek runnig 15' and jumping in the way of a bullet AFTER the shooter has fired. Simply not going to happen.

To use a baseball analogy it would be like a runner on third starting to steal home AFTER the pitcher released the ball, and getting there before it made it to the catcher.

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Kobolds... Tuckers Kobolds.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
CalethosVB wrote:

The standard Drow race has no level adjustment, despite that itstill gets some awesome SLAs. A Drow Noble has a level adjustment of +2. In theory, the Drow Noble should level at the same time her party levels, just that while her friends are level 4, she will be turning level 2.

Slight correction. Drow Noble is CR1 so if playing with monsters you woudl start one level behind.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

More Undead Anti-paladins *halo*

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matthew Downie wrote:

Are you under the impression that adamantine weapons automatically overcome DR 15/Bludgeoning, DR 10/Cold Iron, DR 15/Good, etc? They don't.

No, but a +5 weapon overcomes Cold Iron, Silver, Adamantine, Good, Law, Chaos and Evil.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Skylancer4 wrote:

Well look at that, it is a stated exception for casting a spell. There is specific wording indicating you don't provoke. Clearly wording is there so it doesn't provoke. Clearly we have a FAQ indicating unless otherwise stated, an action performed as a differing action cost DOES provoke of it would normally.

If you can point to this FAQ I will agree. If not I believe the action type DOES make a difference.

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