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No. there is not an archetype for Cavalier that gives sneak attack, nor archetypes for classes with sneak attack that give an order. If you want both abilities, you will have to multiclass.


Sorry if this was answered before, but will the Path of War be compiled into 1 rule book much like Psionics Expanded? If so do you know whwen that might happen?


"With a sharp blade, a clever taunt, or something that otherwise attracts her foe, the warder can direct the attention of enemies towards himself."

is the flavor for the Warder mark ability.... Goading people/things to get angry and focus on you...or just annoy/harass them isn't some magical/mind control ability.

Many professional athletes/MMA fighters/even professional gamers really believe in trash talking. Its a way to put the opponent on tilt, making them make stupid mistakes that they wouldn't normally.


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I was really excited about this thread until people (mostly one person) showed up to complain about a term. Why? What was the point of that? You got irritated that someone showed up looking to make a character with a particular style in mind, used a term that probably 75% of the people on this board probably understand. That term is something the reader can relate to pathfinder and find something that works to accomplish something similar.

Also why get angry at people that played WoW? outside of the people that already played table tops, the MMO's probably did more to change the perception of tabletop games in a positive way.

You knew what he meant and that there is effects (antagonize, Divine Prankster enrage ability) that have existed in 3.5 and pathfinder that accomplish something similar.

Back to the thread: If you don't have the feats to really invest in the trip line of feats, Stand Still might be a nice addition. Preventing people from moving past you. I think Agile manuevers might be worth it in general...but if not you it wouldn't be too awful of a check with full bab and if you aren't dumping str for a finesse build.


Unchained Rogue with the Magic talent. You can Sneak attack with shocking grasp.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Correct, you can do so multiple times, so long as you can take more than one Attack of Opportunity in the round. That is most commonly accomplished via Combat Reflexes feat.

It's really only good to counter Archers. Arcane Archers and Spellcasters will still beat you with things like Scorching Ray and Acid Arrow. I suppose the reason they decided not to include Spells was because it'd step too much on Deflect Arrows territory (which in such an instance, would be grounds for deflection in comparison).

The next feat in the chain lets you deal with spells.

Smash from the Air: You can use Cut from the Air against unusually
massive ranged weapons (such as boulders or ballista bolts)
and ranged attacks generated by spell effects. Spell effects
that do not require attack rolls cannot be deflected.


Celestial armor covers flight plus good armor class + dex. And you can sleep in it.

I am a huge fan of the cloak of displacement.


Can you block multiple missiles per round (as you have attacks of opportunity) using Cut from the air/smash from the air? The wording doesn't seem to indicate once per round like deflect arrows or missile shield.

Thoughts?

Cut from the Air: When a ranged attack is made against you
or a target adjacent to you, you can cut the weapon (or
ammunition) out of the air, deflecting the attack so the
target takes no damage. As an attack of opportunity, make
a melee attack roll at your highest bonus. If the result is
greater than the attack roll total of the ranged attack, the
attack is def lected. You must be aware of the attack and
not f lat-footed. Unusually massive ranged weapons (such
as boulders or ballista bolts) and ranged attacks generated
by spell effects cannot be def lected.


I honestly haven't even looked at the mesmerist till now...but I really like this build.

I've been a big fan of shield bash builds lately.

Whats the bonus to damage looking like per strike?


darth_borehd wrote:
What about Weapon Focus (Slam)?

I think you need more value out of your feats then most other classes.That is just my opinion though.

I think Teamwork feats between you and your Spirit may be a strong way to go, specifically outflank.


I was toying with one that was a debuffer since the damage was meh.

The spirit would debuff using cornugan smash and an amulet of cruel. The spiritualist using dirty tricks.

The spell list + the free touch attack of the spirit is really nice. Chill touch seems really strong early on.


Imbicatus wrote:
Typelouder wrote:

Flurry with a 2h weapon using 1.5 Dex to damage,

No, the only way to get 1.5 dex to damage on a flurry is to be an unchained monk / unchained rogue. No way of adding dex to damage except unchained rogue allows the 1.5 bonus for two-handing, and even if it did, you can't make an unchained Sohei, so a flurry of blows is limited to 1x str (or Dex) bonus.

You can get a 1:3 power attack out of it, but unless you are houseruling an unchained sohei, you can't do this with the rules, and even then you'd need to add three levels of unchained monk.

Woops, I didn't see that line at the end of Agile weapon that doesn't allow the 1.5 dex damage. The Unchained Monk doesn't really have anything to do with the damage though, since lvl 6 sohei allows flurrying with the weapon you get a weapon group in.

3 levels of Unchained Rogue would help but don't really get anything out of it.


So right now just as a basic outline of what we are looking at, is the following using level 10. Yes, this build would probably be unfun to play for the first 3-5 levels but thankfully this wont be the case. So it gives more wiggle room.

1 Foresight Wizard/3 Cyclopian Seer Oracle/6 Sohei Monk.

Dex based with an effortless lace polearm.

Noteable abilities: Act in surprise round, Prescience (Foresight Wizard ability), Evasion, 3 Monk bonus feats (Dodge, Deflect arrows, combat reflexes), Flash of insight (Cyclops racial ability), Assume Fate (from the cyclopean Oracle), Flurry with a 2h weapon using 1.5 Dex to damage, Ki Pool, 1st level arcane spells and 2nd level Oracle spells,

Initiative Bonus of Dex + 14 ( 4[Improved Initiative] + 2 [Reactionary triat] + 1 [Forewarned Divination school] + 3 [Devoted Guardian] + 4 [green sting scorpion familiar])

Spells of note: Truestrike, Windy Escape, Lucky Number,

Traits: Fates Favored and Reactionary.

of the 5 base feats that you get from odd levels 1-10... only three are accounted for so far: Weapon Finesse, piranha strike, and Improved initiative.

The starting wealth really helps out, covering some of the other areas. Including Effortless lace + agile weapon, Cyclops Helm + Jingasa of the fortunate soldier combined at 1.5 price of the second item,


Markov Spiked Chain wrote:
Snake Style has the "read what your enemies are going to do" element you're looking for.

I forgot what the base style was, and you are right. It works really well and I added it to my list.


Azten wrote:
Anything that gives dodge bonuses will also do well, because what's the point of seeing an attack coming if you can't get out of the way? For this reason Dodge and even Mobility are decent ideas.

I totally agree with you. Same thing with evasion. Other feats ive looked at

Improved Initiative and reactionary trait. That reacting early to danger.

Deflect Arrows

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Surprised nobody mentioned going VMC Wizard (Diviner, optionally Foresight subschool). You get the Wizard's Divination School Powers late, and one level is a near-dud due to getting a Cantrip as a Spell-Like Ability, but on the other hand you get a Familiar fairly early, and you get a Wizard Discovery (or other Wizard Bonus Feat, but that's not applicable to a martial character). A few Wizard Discoveries work for non-spellcasting characters, such as Knowledge is Power (this depends upon how much you put into Intelligence, so it can be bad or really good), or Time Stutter, (which hurts from limited uses but would really fit thematically with what you are looking for), and you might find something useful in Ioun Bond or True Name.

I think VMC gives up too much what a 1 level dip could accomplished.

So the game it will be used for is actually starting at level 13 (its picking up from a campaign we took a year break from) rather then the lower level module game i thought. The 1 level dip will give the 3+Int rolls as well as some spells: specifically windy escape that can be flavored into a more reactionary spell.


Dragonchess Player wrote:

Fated champion skald?

I think Sohei or the Wizard dip might be better cause of the similar bonus + acting in surprise round

Skylancer4 wrote:
Witch could be used as well, but kinda in the reverse sense.

I think he wants to stay more away from effecting others and more about changing his luck/abilities.

though the debuff witch is always a favorite of mine.

Diminutive Titan wrote:

Perhaps a cleric with the Knowledge domain or the Thought subdomain...

I am hoping to rely as little on spells as possible. He and I are of the same mind that spell casting tends to take away from the general theme. Though I do like the Lvl 8 thought domain ability.

BTW if no one has looked at it, the Cyclops helm. Basically gives the flash of insight ability. Combining this with the Cyclops Seer looks strong.

Also I need to look into the Cryptic Psionic class.


Avoron wrote:

A Cyclopean Seer Time Oracle could be pretty cool, but probably not the sort of thing you had in mind.

If you'd prefer to play something martial, consider variant multiclassing with diviner wizard. You get a familiar and eventually school powers without actually having to deal with spellcasting.

The cyclopes seer is really nice for two levels to get that flash of insight. At our table we play that if you roll back to back 20's, your crit multiplier increases, and 3 in a row is an auto kill. We also get a bankable free 20 (you earn them or you can save them later but there is a max of 2 per bank).

Assume fate (we have a couple people at the table that it would be nice to lower their saves).

The sohei covers the act in the surprise round, but that 3+Int (that the foresight wizard gets) free rolls per day are really nice.

I was thinking maybe a Halfling for the luck bonuses and just being a dex based to help reduce MAD. The luck bonuses lend itself to the concept.


Imbicatus wrote:
Sohei Monk can be assumed to have something similar to the diviner with their Devoted Guardian ability. They can always act in the surprise round, get +1/2 level to initiative, and always roll 20 as a capstone.

Nice, I like that a lot more then the wizard dip + you would get flurry with weapons as well.

I don't know about going fully down the monk path, but its definitely a stronger option.

Feats: I feel improved crit and dodge both lend themselves to having that ability of giving the insight both defensively and offensively?

As far as Psionics, there are the precognitive offensive, greater, defensive powers that are nice.


My friend recently approached me about trying to come up with a precognitive style character and I have hit a brick wall in making something that works beyond just a dip into Diviner. I was hoping this board can help me out and flesh out something solid.

Anything official Pathfinder...doesn't need to be PFS legal.

The less spell casting the better, a melee character or ranged weapon character.

IF NEED BE: Dreamscarredpress Psionics is available but the more official the better.

Theme: A precognitive character. So a character who has glimpses of the future that aids him in combat...helping him to evade attacks or know where to hit.

Or a different take: Someone that can read the minds of his enemies and know what they are going to do in combat before they do it...similar to the 3.5 Mindspy prestige class.

So far I think the Wizard Diviner school dip is one of the best dips for this, but unfortunately there is no way to get that school power other then Wizard. Maybe some Rogue levels?


Are you able to combine Malignant poison with your toxicant poison that you secrete? Doing it at the start of combat, making all of the poison you place on your weapons as a swift action malignant?


Falxu wrote:
Typelouder wrote:
Falxu wrote:
Typelouder wrote:
How are you getting 6d6 arrows?
Level 3: Magus Arcana: Spell Blending: Gravity Bow

So I know I replied, but I just got around to looking at gravity bow again, and I am still not sure how you are getting 6d6 arrows.

Gravity bow gets you from 1d8 to 2d6. Enlarged + Gravity Bow would be 3d6.

Thanks. Sorry again.

1d8 -> 2d6 single arrow damage. At 11th, you have 2 natural attacks and spellstrike, making 3 attacks at 2d6 which is 6d6. Add another 2d6 when (or if) you get around to casting haste.

I would assume you would start combat by casting haste (for you and your party), then gravity bow, then intensified snowball at the nastiest thing in the room... all the while shooting arrows at the same time you are buffing (which is why I love the magus SO much).

Oh Ok, See I thought you meant each individual arrow was 6d6, That is the disconnect.


Falxu wrote:
Typelouder wrote:
How are you getting 6d6 arrows?
Level 3: Magus Arcana: Spell Blending: Gravity Bow

So I know I replied, but I just got around to looking at gravity bow again, and I am still not sure how you are getting 6d6 arrows.

Gravity bow gets you from 1d8 to 2d6. Enlarged + Gravity Bow would be 3d6.

Thanks. Sorry again.


I am leaning towards eldritch Poisoner only cause I think the actual meat of the archetype is better.

Toxicant would be nice with Vivisectionist (I havent checked to see if it comboes, I just notice it keeps bombs).

A lot of good poison based discoveries are there to buff up the regular stuff. Maybe combo that with the toxicant stuff to have 2 poisons on your blade as well?

Guild Poisoner has some good stuff for a dip or so.


Falxu wrote:
Typelouder wrote:
How are you getting 6d6 arrows?
Level 3: Magus Arcana: Spell Blending: Gravity Bow

gotcha, Thanks!


How are you getting 6d6 arrows?


I been toying with the idea of going Gunslinger (either just a dip or the 5 levels) into Eldritch archer. Since I am mostly limited by the range of the spells which have similar range as the guns.

I have to take the time and look at the spellslinger Wizard archetype and see how that would go.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I thought there was a few class abilities that somewhat replicated this effect.

Am I wrong?

As far as I could tell, the kineticist Fire talent is the only one that comes close.

CraziFuzzy wrote:

because DR and/or resistance is an important balancing tool.

The wizard can always just learn a different spell.

You can also learn Elemental Spell for an energy other than your specialization.

There's also a Penetrating Spell feat from Kobold Press that does what you want.

Well Dr is also a lot easier to over come then it was in 3.5 due to overall weapon enhancement bonus.

And yes like I said above, you can learn different spells and change energy in a million ways, but then you aren't playing the fire/frost caster that you set out for, nullifying the flavor.

Unfortunately it's a 3rd party feat which doesn't fly in most games.


There is so much flavor in the classic Fire mage, or just a great frost mage in general in any type of fantasy story telling with lots of magic... yet it is almost impossible to play a focused element caster in Pathfinder due to the amount of monsters with immunities. Yes, you could just be an admixture wizard and just change things on the fly, but that gets old and doesn't have the same flavor to it.

I snagged the following numbers from a previous thread in the forums, so I am sure they are larger at this point.

319 creatures with resistance/immunity to fire
305 creatures with resistance/immunity to cold
268 creatures with resistance/immunity to electricity
258 creatures with resistance/immunity to acid

The searing spell/piercing cold feats were a great solution to this. It was a feat tax to be able to keep playing the character you had in your head. For those that don't know what the feats were:

"A searing spell is so hot that it ignores the resistance to fire of creatures affected by the spell, and affected creatures with immunity to fire still take half damage. This feat can be applied only to spells with the fire descriptor. Creatures with the cold subtype take double damage from a searing spell. Creatures affected by a searing spell are still entitled to whatever saving throw the spell normally allows. A searing spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level."

So why can't we have something similar to this? Even a tamer version would be welcomed.


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Silent image: create a globe of darkness. Basically giving them the blinded condition. Create areas of dense fog.

Shocking grasp + conductive weapon.


Yeah the breath weapon bomb was my first start however the inability to add any Discoveries besides breath weapon bomb hurts it. I was looking at going a polymorph build with that.

The kobold just doesn't get enough damage out of it as a replacement to pound.

I like the scaly kind sub domain and it comes on line a lot sooner then others. Maybe comboed with a bad touch build it would work well.


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I am toying around with a character concept that focuses or uses breath weapons/spells strongly.

So far the ways I can think to accomplish getting some type of breath weapons is the following:

Firebreath (Spell lvl 2)
Dragon breath (spell lvl 4)
Sorcerer: Dragon bloodline
Improved Eldritch Heritage feat
Half Dragon Template
Dragon Disciple Prestige Class
Bloodrager (Dragon bloodline)
Breath Weapon Bomb (alchemist)
Qinggong Monk (Breath weapon ki ability).
Chakra: Navel.

Am I missing anything?

So far the basic idea I had in mind is to use the breath weapon anytime I need to move in a round, then use full attack actions in melee. Besides the breath weapon use (Ideally more then once a day), I am open on all other aspects. What do you guys got?


Take the sniper feat from dirty tactics + stealth skill unlock that gives you no penalty to sniping.

I have been seriously debating the back and forth of Rogue 3 vs Rogue 1. I know Rogue 1/Wizard/Arcane Trickster will be stronger in the long run...but Rogue talents + evasion would be nice.

Couple of nice builds: I like the foresight Divination Wizard for getting to act in the surprise roung + ambuscading spell (enemies in the surprise round take penalties to saves) or the rogue talent surprise strike (treat enemies in the surprise round as flat footed...even if they have acted).


lemeres wrote:
Typelouder wrote:

Armor: I doubt someone would wear armor when sleeping in a bed.

Outerwear (cloak, boots, hats): Probably would be taken off.

You don't understand adventurers very well, do you?

They are a strange and mentally twisted breed. And above all else- paranoid.

They wear everything to bed if they can. In case of assassins. Or in this case-wendigos.

So unless there is a mechanically compelling reason (medium/heavy armor causing fatigue) they never remove anything.

Most of my group are military (current or former) or police. So most of us have had to sleep in kevlar/spend all day in body armor...That s~$& isn't comfortable...and its like a sweatshirt compared to medieval armor. It's one thing to wear it out on the road, in the field and another in the safety of a bedroom.


What was the tone of the campaign immediately before they were resting? Were the PC's afraid of being attacked in the inn? I've always played that sleeping in a bed means I wouldn't wear all of my adventuring equipment. The idea of wearing all that equipment 24/7, in a safe, warm bed just doesn't make sense.

As far as the weapon: He had to drop it to feast on the corpse...so there is that.
Armor: I doubt someone would wear armor when sleeping in a bed.
Outerwear (cloak, boots, hats): Probably would be taken off.

Maybe belts/rings/amulets/shirt would be left on. Roll % dice for each?


Trying to come up a shield and sword(or spear) based character that's not just attack and damage.

Lately I have been very big on debuff/applying conditions through abilities such as cornugan smash. Flensing strike. Or cruel weapon enhancement.

Does anyone have any fun combat builds that uses a shield (large or tower) and a sword (or spear) that takes advantage of conditions/effects/ or changing the surrounding battlefield.

I would prefer minimizing the amount of spell casting if possible.


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Eldritch knight then into Hell Knight signifier. Play level one as a fighter, then level up as a wizard. It's nothing fancy.

For a polymorher I like the alchemist a lot more. Better hit die, bab, saves, and class abilities to compliment (vivisectionist and mutagen).

Transmuter really needs a change to the school powers: changing from enhancement bonus to insight or some other different bonus type.


Ravingdork wrote:

My 9th-level unchained rogue, Kujo the Butcher, is easily the scariest martial in the party, not because of his damage per say, but because of his horrible, debilitating debuffs.

And he isn't even optimized for Dexterity! He could be SO much meaner if I wasn't married to the axe-wielding shark butcher concept.

Love your characters, but I wish you would add in a section of the tactics of the character. Makes it a lot easier to figure out the goal of the build. Just an idea.


I am a fan of Signature Deed (Dodging Panache), basically avoiding full attacks every round for free. Obviously not a perfect answer to reach or big 1 hit monsters.


Ranged oradin?


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From what I read about the netharese (pretty sure that's the shade empire), one of the warlocks loved to collect monsters and beasts and put them in stasis. When you have a floating city it makes sense that there could be some pets there for the sole reason of having the ability too. Also experimentations. Maybe a medusa guard levels


As others have suggested, you may go arcane trickster

However a new feat in the dirty trick toolbox(accomplished sneak attacker) allows you to gain a flat +1d6 sneak attack. Pre req: sneak attack class feature. That's it. Thus you can go rogue 1/wizard 3/ then take your first level of arcane trickster at lvl 5. Most of the skills from rogue and wizard don't overlap and pretty sure you would have most as class for the purpose of getting the bonus to skill checks + sorcerer spell progression.


It would really help to have all of this in a google doc. Being able to update info when new stuff comes out and a much more centralized location.


Unfortunately the sneak attacking wizard runs into the same issue as ranged rogues in getting sneak attacks off.

I think sniping via spells and then greater invis is the easiest fixes.


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what are some non standard (mercenary company, shipping, tavern) business ideas for characters in game?

Some of the ideas I have already: A Loan office with steep interest rates, green house that specifically grows rare herbs and regents for Mage schools/alchemy, and a messenger pigeon between cities/towns.

Need some more outside the box ideas


I was wondering if there were any ways (besides the following) to reduce an enemies' energy resistance or immunity via spells, feats, or class abilities?

The only two I can think of are: Elemental Sorcerer (Elemental Blast: giving element vulnerability) and the Fire Kineticist (searing wild talent).

Also acceptable: Abilities that make energy attacks act as something other then energy or ignore resistances all together?

Any ideas? Thanks!


Oh I didn't even see your Int. But combat stamina works as a work around. You have such a low Dex though, that it will limit the usefulness of the Taunting stance later on significantly.


You can go combat expertise with stalwart which is a 1 for 1 trade in penalty for dr. later doubling via improved stalwart. So -4 for 8 dr that stacks with your class dr. You can also take the threatening defender trait that reduces the penalty when using combat expertise by 1.

The unbreakable fighter was more of a way to get 2 for 1 in feats. But not necessary.


Do you always have a barbarian in the group? If so what type of barbarian is he?

I suggest the stalwart/improved stalwart line. Maybe a dip in un breakable fighter For diehard and endurance (to pick up the pre reqs for stalwart). Personally I'm a huge fan of sleeping in medium armor as my games always have us attacked at night.


If you are up for it, I'm a big fan of amateur swashbuckler(dodging panache) or if you have the charisma, dip into swashbuckler for the grit + dodging panache. Helps avoid those full attacks.


Pendagast wrote:
for a male, "the goblin king" (David Bowie) from labyrinth seems like an "elven witch" to me.

That is a pretty good idea. I have also been looking at pulling some ideas from the Warlock pact ideas via 5th Ed (is that a no no to mention?).

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