KaeYoss wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
vagrant-poet wrote:
Karelzarath wrote:
But a 4th-level Druid can't wildshape at all. Doesn't that mean that the Shaman can't use it for non-totem shapes until 8th level?
Actually druids get wild shape at 4th level in Pathfinder, that aside just for the affects of what animals they can turn into and hours duration take them as 4th level.
Correct.
Level 4-5, druids would normally get WS. An animal shaman does not get any wild shape at all at those levels (but can use their separate totem transformation power).
At 6th level, they finally gain the WS ability. When using it to assume the form of their totem, they are treated as if they were 8th level druids in all respects (see my above post). When using it to assume any other form, they are treated as 4th level druids in all respects (again, see above).
Can you turn into a young or giant version of an animal?
I ask because the level boost is otherwise useless, since there is nothing that you can do at level 8 you can't already do at level 6, at least not with the kinds of animal this ability applies to normally.
Plus, a lot of critters have been left out of the bestiary, and instead we get a lot of stuff like "If you want a smaller bear (like black bear), use the young template."
Officially, you can't use polymorph effects to become templated creatures, but this is an area where I could see a wiggle room, for just the reason you mention.
However, there are two issues with both young and giant:
1. They amount to size-changing effects that stack with another size-changing effect (the base transformation). This one is easy to hand-wave in principle, but you would have to enforce the size limit from beast shape (i.e., if you are limited to Small creatures, no Young Dire Rat to become Tiny; if Large, no Giant Horse to become Huge).
2. The bigger issue is with stat mods. To wit, taking the form of a Giant Leopard (Large animal using Medium animal beast shape + giant template = +6 ST, +4 CN, -2 DX, +4 natural armor) would be much better than assuming the form of a Lion or Tiger (Large animal from beast shape = +4 ST, -2 DX, +4 natural armor).
This could work if you simply stipulate that the beast shape stat mods are based on the SPELL and the FINAL size of the creature form that you assume, and not that the two would be additive. You do that, and I think you're golden.
Giant... ehhh, probably fine too, though I could see some more room for objection, in part because it breaks the scaling of the beast shape spell stat bonuses.