Tycho, Lord of Karran-Kural's page

Side note: I admit, you definitely couldn't replace the glabrezu encounter in Shackled City with 64 gnolls. ;^)

Hah! They'd probably live longer!

Are you running from the magazines, or the hardback?

There's a bridging scenario in the hardback ('Drakthar's Way'), where they add more evidence that 'The Blue Duke' is bringing half-orcs into the city.

They are initially kept separate from the other town guards, in separate barracks on the edge of town, and brought out in public later, when the guard are stretched thin by the riots.

There's also a fake attack on their barracks, which is used for propaganda purposes, to show that they are valuable members of the community, and to deflect suspicion from the Blue Duke.

I've a hunch I know what adventure you're running (see alias).

Assuming I'm right, have they wiped out the rest of the inhabitants except for those last few?

And I hope your players aren't going to see this thread?

This is a problem, for the reasons already stated, namely,

• reducing the cost of learning spells,
• removing the requirement to find rare spells in play,
• hindering the GM's attempts to limit access to Ye Olde Scrolle Shoppe,
• throwing all private spell research wide open to remote-Magus copyright piracy, and
• encouraging dumpster-diving through every third-party 3.X source.

The last was bad news in the past, when allowed free reign by Archivists, Artificers, or Magi of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane PrC), whose class ability appears to be the model for this.

I've played a MotAO (see this alias), and I've felt the temptation, to go burrowing through every book. But I consider myself a responsible player, because I know what it's like on the other side of the screen, and I held back from going crazy.
I don't believe in using any option, that I would object to having a GM use against me, and have better things to do than get into wars of escalation. Many times, if I saw something that appears far too good for its level, I would ask for an amnesty on it. "I won't use it, if no-one else does."

Other players aren't as considerate, and have an adversarial attitude to their GM. It's not fair on your GM, to be throwing surprises at them, putting them on the spot, forcing them to accept your PC throwing out spell effects they've never heard of, from books they don't own, which are declared with a wave of the hand, as a fait accompli. When the session clock is ticking away, is not the time to drag out some untested crap you found in a fanzine, or off someone's blog.

I may just do the capture plot and go with. But might just redo the final fight with heceuva with the full party. That way everything else the party did to that point is not worthless.

Just make sure you don't set a bad precedent, where the players come to assume they can always visit a place once to explore, then throw the resulting fight, because they know they'll get a do-over.

Did they tell anyone where they were going, after The Lucky Monkey?

If so, they should (hopefully, by now) be friends with both the Church of Pelor and the Striders. Either or both of these groups could send a rescue party, along with the missing two PCs.
This could be justified, if the two missing PCs knew where the others were going.

It isn't deus ex machina, if it's foreshadowed and justified that they have these allies, in the game so far.

If you aren't bothered by the players having spoilers, you could give out the stats for low-level NPCs such as Fario, Felian, or Brother (Rufus?), to be used by some of the players, so they aren't sat inactive.

As far as I remember, there's only one practical entrance, so presumably all the guards at the cable car have been dealt with.
The leaders may send some of their surviving troops back up to protect it, so there's less of them around the prisoners, and the rescue party still have to make a fight of it.
They are more likely to keep a watch on movement of the cage, so surprise assault is less likely than before, unless the rescuers can use Spider Climb, Levitate, etc, or travel along the wire somehow.
(They're level 4 now, right? Or less, if they're splitting xp more ways?)

Do you think this needs moving to the dedicated SCAP thread?

If you're wanting solutions that fit with the scenario, then you're less likely to give out spoilers there, and more likely to get a reply from GMs and players who are familiar with the material.

If you're after general advice on 'what to do about imminent death of PCs, while their players are absent?', then I think you need a less spoilerific original post.
Not that I care, since we're done with the AP, but some people aren't.

Divine Metamagic, for crazy CHA clerics. *ahem*

Gaaaaah!

He's back!

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, for arcane casters;

I've always thought this PrC should be for courtesans and exotic dancers, not prismatic magic specialists.

Five ranks of Tumble says I can dance as good as you, boy.

I know lots of you see spells as being inherently more powerful than attacks. My experience with that isn't the case at all. Between attacks of opportunity, feats in the core rules like Power Attack and Combat Expertise, and decent STR bonuses, my fighters ALWAYS outperform the mages on damage. And they can do it all day long.

Well, of course they do.

If wizards were able to match melee damage output, AND cast debilitating spells at the enemy, AND cast battlefield control spells, AND cast self-only buffs, AND cast scenario-ending divinations, AND teleport everyone round the globe in the blink of an eye, and back again in time for breakfast, then why would anyone ever take up a martial career?

Rename the game 'Wizzy-World', and have two classes, 'PCs' and 'Muggles'.

Any wizard who is trying to keep up with melee classes in damage, is abandoning his job, which is to do the things the rest of the party can't do.
Which involves far more than simply buffing; it includes blocking off flanking maneuvers, smashing through barriers, altering the shape or nature of the battlefield, delivering allies to their target, debuffing the enemy, and, maybe, once in a while, deal some damage, IF that's the most pressing tactical thing that needs doing.

But if the default approach to every encounter is 'try to deal some hit point damage', then you're not playing a wizard. You're a sorceror, a warlock, or a wand on legs.

1) All classes want to be heroes, not just casters, and not all casters are "weenies" who can't wear armor and have no hit points.

I never wore armour, but that was less for the spell failure, than it would interfere with me showing off my studly manliness (dwarfiness?)

What's the point of cracking the 200hp barrier if you're not going to share your oiled, rippling abs with your admirers?

My viewers, scrying me on Cabal-Vision, demand their daily ration of beardcake, and nothing gets those elf-maidens more aroused than seeing a real man, to take their minds of their own, sickly, pallid, 'men'-folk.

Perfection takes work, and that work should be appreciated!

-Tycho 'Zardoz' al-Baragu

The nerfs had to happen. You might be a climatic cleric player who is after the coolness and fluff, but there are dozens of people out there doing a loud "sigh" whenever a 3.5 cleric casts Divine Power, Righetous Might, burns his turning attempts for some sweet Divine Metamagic and goes on to make all other players want to re-roll CoD.

Hmmmmmmmmmnnnn.....

I think the +1LA will seem a small price to pay, once the Blasphemies start flying...

I can vouch for Eschew Materials being a life-saver, along with Still Spell and Silent Spell.

I don't know if my DM would have rigidly enforced the restrictions above, but I voluntarily enforced them on myself.

Getting to the point where I could cast my 'Get Out of Poo Free' spells, with no components of any kind (V, S, or M) was a great relief.

If you do use the Soul Pillars, make sure your cleric isn't totally lying about having Restoration prepared, before you risk frying your brain 40 times in a row!

...removal of a 10' x 10' x 10' cube below 10' of rock by disintergrate requires a check against the cave's new 10% subsidence because of the instantaneous stress change.

Well, pooh.

How are we going to play cliff-side Tetris, now?

Woah; I'm glad to have inspired you all to action.

Does this mean I get an errata named after me?

You can get the problem named after you :-)

Well; there's no such thing as bad publicity!

Woah; I'm glad to have inspired you all to action.

Does this mean I get an errata named after me?

Fortunately, Dispel Magic isn't the sort of thing you often see happen round after round, much less multiple times per round, like melee combat.

<blush>

<looks at ground>

<whistles nonchalantly>

If you play a Dwarven Wizard, at least you're getting something for your troubles, even if those abilities aren't optimal for power gaming.

Oh, I just had to quote this for the benefit of my group, to deflect their accusations that I was a cheese-weasel for a year.

Do you hear that?

Dwarven wizards aren't optimal!

In yerrr faaaace!

LOL

People forget, I've already got Disable Device at '+ a billion'.

It's called Disintegrate.

In general, prestige classes that make you a "super specialist" in some area should be frowned upon, if not totally eliminated. For example, the full progression prestige classes for wizards (Incantatrix, ...) seem to trade off a few feats few consider essential (metamagic is more conveniently handled with items) for vast increases in their primary effectiveness. That is to me the basic, distilled bad prestige class.

I got some ribbing for playing an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, having to field accusations of cheese-mongering.

I don't know if that is one of the classes you refer to, but I can vouch that the pre-requisites for that were most certainly not what I would have freely chosen.

Skill Focus (Spellcraft)? Err...don't the 12 ranks I have to sink in this skill prove how 'focussed' I am?
Spell Focus (Abjuration)? A feat that, as written, seems to have no practical use whatsoever? (Increase the save DC for protection and buff spells that the targets choose not to save against...)? WTF?
Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)? Oh, now. That's just adding insult to injury.

Although I can vouch for the benefits at higher level (See the thread 'Moltenwing Dies in One Round') from immediate action prismatic walls, I can honestly say that the campaign really required this level of power-whoring (level 18 party surviving Level 30 Word of Chaos/Blasphemy? Sheesh!).
And those pre-requisites made a difference; I really felt the pain at low levels, with what effectively amounts to three wasted feats.

It's a very good thing I wasn't drinking a tasty beverage when I flipped the page to the Deep Crow. I LOLed, I admit it. And to have (almost) captured the piquant eloquence of the esteemed Tycho in the description text...well played, sir.

"Don't go into Power Dome A!"

"DID YOU HEAR ME, MAN?"

"FOR THE LOVE OF GOD..."

"DON'T GO INTO POWER DOME A!!!11!!1!!"

I did.
Dirty bastard pinned me and tried to shove an egg up my arse.

He tackled the wrong man that day.
Last thing he ever tried.

Oh, come on. What self respecting wizard keeps his wand inaccessible?

I sure as hell don't.

I had a cylindrical bandolier, like an arm-splint-cast, that spins like a Gatling Gun, and pops the correct wand into my hand.

This isn't rocket-science, or magic. It's basic carpentry with some springs attached.

And then I got a Handy Haversack. But the 'Wand-Wench' is still cool.

As for the door question.
Instead of saddling the game with a rigid mechanic, that half the time should not apply, why don't we have the %age of an action to open them depend on the specific door, the material, the construction, and purpose? The same way they have different hardness, hp, and Break DC?

Prohibited should mean prohibited.

No preparation, no scrolls, no wands, no trigger or completion items slipping under the radar, just because they're shaped differently.

No bonuses for Universalists, at all.

If you can't work around the loss of two schools (and yes, it needs to be two schools, since one is a no-brainer), then you shouldn't be playing a specialist.

Maybe you can't Enchant someone, but you can trick them into doing what you want via Illusion?

Maybe you can't sap someone's strength via Necromancy, so why not Transmute them into a kobold?

It's called planning, strategy and tactics.

I'm not sure it's possible to have a constructive conversation with someone who likens themself to an archmage.

I beg to differ.

With regard to death of AC. I would have it work like a Wizard losing his failiar for replacing the AC. A slain animal companion cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain animal companion can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.

Year and a day provision was dropped from the Familiar with Pathfinder.

If you're going to enforce a 'year and a day' prohibition, then you may as well say you can never have another, since many campaigns run from level 1 to 20 in less than a year of game-time.

For the raid on the Cagewrights in SCAP, we levelled 3 times in one morning, 2 of which were within 15 minutes of each other. And no, I didn't use up half of my spells, so "Pffthhhp!" to those who keep whining about the inevitability of the '15-minute-day', and how it 'forces' PCs to rest.

My Baklunish heritage always gave me a beautiful skin and a lustrous beard since I was 12. If, however, I was one of those thin-blooded, decadent Suloise, I'd be one of those cliched acne-ridden, bumfluff-chinned 20th-level Archmages, that your Mrs Rowling writes about.

I personally don't think he really works as a devil, but then again I also don't think SCAP can be converted very well to 4e so we'll see what happens.

I know I wouldn't be convertable to 4E.

Skill ranks in every skill at level 1 is apparently not on the table!

(OK; I lie. I didn't buy Use Rope).

Having run several high-level D&D games (I'm running one right now, in fact; my group's just starting "Into the Maw" for Savage Tide and is nearing 17th level), I'd have to say that one of the big problems with high-level games is the staggering number of options PCs have each round. There's SO many things they can do that if a player's not particularly aggressive and too worried about not making the Perfect Choice that everything'll fall apart.

But if you get into the rhythm of high-level, in my experience it's not THAT bad at all, actually. The GM just needs to work at keeping the pace going, and if a player takes too long on his turn, the GM needs to step in and force a decision or, in some cases, force a delay to the character's initiative.

One thing that's REALLY slowed the game down (and this is at ALL levels), though, were the sudden bloom of swift and immediate actions we saw near the end of the 3.5 cycle. All of a sudden, players could do three or four or more things in a round if they set their mind to it... but those actions don't take a correspondingly short time to adjudicate. Basically... swift and immediate actions let players take multiple turns rather than just ONE turn on their initiative rank, and that reduces the percentage of time other players have to act in the course of a round. It's effectively adding a phantom player or two or even three to the table. Immediate actions are the worst, in fact, since they FORCE a player to interrupt the flow of the game. A player or (usually) the GM is going through his turn, making decisions and suddenly a player busts in with an immediate action, and suddenly the "flow" of the game is disrupted in the same way a conversation is disrupted if a loud and brazen lout interrupts you to derail your story with his own story.

Quickened actions; Dear God, who do I know like that?

LOL

That's what they mean about Wizards being like Indy. They've read the books, they've spent the time studying, and now they want to go out there and get their hands Dirty. What they lack in physicality, they make up for with gumption.

Hoody Hoo!

<still chuckling, as his hit points now exceed 200...>

"That belongs in MY museum ...all mine, all mine... LIKE YOUR ASS!

Well in fairness I don't think the problem is limited to those on this thread. There are a considerable number of high level adventures that don't take this tactic into account either. Many DMs are just following the adventure as written.

I agree; so many times I and my fellow players have spent a session debating how best to enter a powerful enemy's lair, and the DM has asked "What are you ****ing about for?".

My reply is that I know what I would do to protect my home, but I am often slightly disappointed to find this doesn't happen in the adventure, making my preparations completely unnecessary.

Of course, the one time the place is trapped is the time the players say "What the hell; these places are never trapped. Let's just run in..."

...just to get the 'right combination' you end up with a character wearing a turban, a girdle, lace gloves, hard riding boots, a vest, glasses, fur cloak, rings, plate armour, spiked buckler, and she's a halfling fighter/thief.

Does that look coherent to anyone?

Sounds like a wild night in at Trixie's Cathouse!

More flavorful and interesting items like the cloak of arachnidia end up being sold or ignored in favor of the items that are "necessary" in order to keep up with the game.

Still wearing mine!

13 levels, 2 prestige classes and one reincarnation later!

Con is not usually top priority for anyone, meaning that it's probably not much more likely that a Paladin or Ranger will boost their Con than a wizard.

Indeed, I find a wizard is more likely to want a good Con, since his actual Hit Die sucks so much. Personally, my bonus hit points outweigh my rolled hit points by 50%.

Anyone watch 'Lazytown'? That guy so totally ripped off my routines. That's how I start the day. All I need is a town full of puppets, an airship, and a strangely camp, cross-dressing villain, and I could have been a star! A star!

Assuming a Paladin with Int as a dump stat (not a great leap)...

No; not a great leap of imagination at all...LOL

It also helps if they or their Favoured Soul cohort put a rank in Spellcraft by level 18/16, as well...:)

You there, Kaile?

Now, just to make all of you think... What your PLAYERS will say if a two-weapon fighting invisible 13th-level Rogue decide to attack one of THEM? Next time you play, with a 13th-level party, just surprise one of them with this invisible sneaker (preferably the rogue)...

I'd say, bring it on!

And don't forget your DC20 poison, and death attack.

Tycho the Studmuffin Mage
159hp and rising...

Honestly, in my 3.5 game my players go through dungeons without looting anyone except bosses, completely disregarding the possessions of NPCs and monsters.

Come on, Kaile!

Saddle up!

Free treasure lying around!

<hitches up the loot wagon>

...I think this applies to more than new PCs, even existing PCs can suffer due to the 'party treasure counter' (and lets face it, it tends to be just one person) also applying the above rules to treasure distribution, and I don't think that every party member can be equally rewarded after each 'hoard'...

I hope that's not a dig at me...!

Heavens above, man! I'm going as fast as I can!
Do you realize how much loot there was in that last adventure?

I'm onto 8 pages of Excel, here!
Portrait-style!

(I'll send you an e-mail tonight, though I see someone's already been dipping... Mr 'I've got a magic glaive'...I'm looking at you!)

Hadn't considered that initially. Interesting... Of course how often does that actually happen?

A lot more often now, than it used to.

Is it really a good idea to have the fighter "help" the rogue?

It is, if you need to hold back a crusher, to get at the gubbins.

It doesn't have to be a fighter, though. You're better using somone with a bit of class. I help our rogue all the time; 1 skill rank = 1 auto assist (well, it is from me, anyway).

And I can stand my studly-wizard body in the way of the poison/death rays etc, to protect his frail weedy rogue carcass.

Let in all the books, but install a house rule of no more than two classes for any given character. That is either two base classes, or a base class and a PrC. This does limit some fun stuff (Mystic Theurge) but it also breaks most of the silly power builds.

Gaaaasspppp!!!!

<clutches chest>

Fading awaaaayyyy......

Tycho (Wiz 6/Master of Arcane Order 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/prospective Archmage...)

Break Enchantment!

I won't need a Fortitude save to come back then (I'm not happy with my luck at the minute).

I'm sorry? What was that? I can't hear you speaking...

Oh, right. That's because you're not.
You can't even scree for help, right now.

You know; it's only natural that you should want to emulate my deep, gravelly voice, but you didn't have to try so literally.

I applaud you going in without your usual dozen CODzilla buffs; it's a pity you suffered for being boulder.

Well, we said we wanted a gritty campaign...

That floating balloon is going to get absolutely creamed when I get back. Ailsa is working on getting my body out of there and preventing a follow-through attack.

Don't worry, we've kicked that rancid bag of dogsick once, we can do it again. I think Ailsa may be a bit busy, though...

You may wish to stay in the courtyard this turn.

Where's the fun in that?

You should know me better than that by now :)

Have you mapped your temple and grounds?
If so, mail me a copy. I'd prefer not to teleport into a wall.
I think I'll aim for the outside; I know you've blocked the interior. Plus, all those cherubs give me the creeps. Seriously, that decor freaks me out. Are they baby angels, or dead babies?

Anyway, back to the plot. I think we'd better leave it at that, before we give away any spoilers. I think we've already derailed some poor guy's thread. Sorry!

Hey, Shale, ...err, I mean Kaile!
How's your current gear?

Is that stone too?

</roll Spellcraft (1d20 + 28)>
Do I get +2 for Stonecunning? :)

Oh; what a surprise, I passed.

<read spell>

Darn it!

OK; maybe we are bringing you back. Don't move! <chuckle>

See you in 2 years, for the end-game!

Is that also when we're going to get that list of magic item values? :-)

Not that I can use them, being a statue and all.

Ah; now, you see...

You've thrown all my calculations out, haven't you?

Splitting everything 4 ways instead of 5 does have it's advantages, of course...

See you in 2 years, for the end-game!

By the way, tried charming someone with your evident wit lately? Thought not. And before you fire that back at me I'm the one with scores of followers, all right?

I'm sorry, but I was under the impression that at least 100 of them only turned up to follow your cloak around?

:)

I spent one level in my new form, unable to speak Dwarven (now rectified).
It would have been highly embarrassing to have been addressed in that tongue, and stand there like a moron, going "Huh?".

At the same time, our 'warriors' are hacking away, hitting with 4 attacks per round, and easily capable of delivering 100 damage per round, yet none of the three has the benefit of a full BAB history.

Umm... we have 3 attacks per round. Or at least, I do... nearly 4 though.

You have 4 when you're hasted; but I suppose the extra attack isn't really iterative, since it's at full bonus, so yes, I agree.

You are still the Lord of Hack.

LEAST munchkin? With a bard in the party? And your dance of the seven veils stuff? And ultra-optimized skills? And demanding spell books whilst not paying for them? A stranger to the truth and no mistake. Ha!

Sorry, but I don't do the 'dance of the seven veils'.

You seem to have mistaken me for some kind of houri. Whilst I am almost impossibly handsome, and could probably earn quite a sum doing so, I am afraid I do not frequent the same circle of establishments as you obviously do, where men cavort with painted catamites.

I specialise in fatal self-defence with extreme prejudice.

And since when was a well-rounded education a bad thing?
I am baffled by preaching-folk and their insistence on doltishness being a virtue.
Admittedly, by well-rounded, I include the ability to defeat bonds, unlock cells, and palm lethal weapon onto my person.
And if you were to perform 100 two-knuckle press-ups before breakfast each day, as I do, to purify my mind for spell-preparation, then you too may one day be able to match my cat-like somersaults. And maybe even catch up with me in the 'hit point' department?

I know not these spellbooks of which you speak; I simply have a hobby of collecting a large library of bed-side reading. Such things are a mere trifle, obviously of no use to anyone else, since they have not seen fit to avail themselves of the many esoteric languages at my disposal. If you ever wish to sink a whole level's worth of skill into practicing your Ancient Suloise/Baklunish/Abyssal/Terran/Auran/Aquan, etc, I would be happy to let you share them.

And I still maintain I am the least munchkin of the lot of us, since, unlike our bard, I can't use a shoddy rules loophole to set my save DCs in the 40's.

See you Thursday :)

I do like having the cultural traits split out - not only does it make creating non-standard cultures for the races easier as the OP mentioned, but it makes handinlg the reincarne spell easier - only the inate racial traits should be replaced, and the cultural traits should remain the same as the creature's original race.

This came up in our game; dead human, reincarnated as a dwarf.

While gaining all the dwarven traits, the human traits were specifically stated to be kept (skill points & feat) for an net gain.
I can see how that could be seen as abuse (though as one of the least munchkin members of the party, I wasn't going to refuse the benefit).
:)

Since wizards and sorcerers are often viewed as underpowered by many people...

Pardon?

The examples being given of wizards blowing away hordes of enemies, while the poor warriors are left with nothing to do, just isn't happening for us. In fact, it's often the other way round.

The 20th level caster who uses a 6th-level slot to deal 70 damage in an area...sounds good, until you factor in Spell Resistance, Spell Turning, Counterspelling, Energy Resistance, saves for half damage, Evasion, etc.
Sure, you can kill rooms full of mooks who are many levels beneath you, but you shouldn't really be facing them, or gaining xp for defeating them.
A creature rated as appropriate to your caster level is often very difficult to even effect.

At the same time, our 'warriors' are hacking away, hitting with 4 attacks per round, and easily capable of delivering 100 damage per round, yet none of the three has the benefit of a full BAB history.

My job seems to be to deliver them to the objective, smash the scenery up, dispel harmful spells, and identify the loot. Damaging the enemy is not a worth the attempt unless they're in my face, or as a side effect of killing themselves on my defences (Moltenwing in one round!).

This is not a rant against my group or campaign, but I simply cannot relate to the statements that 'iterative attacks are useless', or 'fighters cannot contribute at high level'.