TwiceBorn's page

Midnight is FUN but not for the feint hearted.

Indeed!

My players would probably agree that the campaign I'm running (and the world itself) is probably the toughest they've ever played in. But we've been playing for three years now (at a snail's pace) and everyone is still into it.

I have to agree, though -- it isn't for everyone.

In FFG's Midnight, only the clerics of the evil god Izrador have access to divine spells. Channelers (a new class) have access to a limited selection of arcane spells, and being caught with magic or casting spells is punishable by death. The priests of the dark god have demonic familiars that can sense magic and hunt down magic users, so channelers are always looking over their shoulders. Spells like teleport and wish do not exist, many evocation and conjuration spells are not available at low levels, and channelers can cast a more limited number of spells per day than can arcane casters in regular Pathfinder (the Midnight spellcasting system is point-based, rather than slot based). Channelers can also burn some of their Constitution points to cast extra spells or make use of metamagic feats. Characters from all classes can learn some low level magic through the use of feats.

The system needs to be tweaked in order to work perfectly with Pathfinder, but some dedicated fans at www.againsttheshadow.org have been doing a great job with class/rules updates.

The Midnight line had a total of 18 products released, most of which are available as inexpensive PDFs at www.rpgnow.com.

Check it out!

I think this campaign may be exactly what you're looking for... IMO, it's one of the best settings to ever hit the market, and the one I'm using for my current game.

I also recommend visiting the Midnight fan site.

Oooo, I'll play!!! Ani, City of 1001 churches!

Awesome! Thanks for bringing this place to my attention.

Is Mothster still having internet problems? Hope everything's okay.

Happy New Year to all.

Ozzy Osbourne doing John Lennon's Working Class Hero.

Awesome thread!

I may be burned at the stake for this, but I much prefer Tiamat's version of Sympathy for the Devil to the Rolling Stones original.

Hey all,

Sorry, been busy at University lately, and relative in Hospital.
SHOULD be more available by next week, but if I vanish you'll know I'll be back asap.

Thanks,

~Rags

Best wishes to you and your relative -- hospital stays are never pleasant, and they're even more depressing during the holiday season... I speak from experience. I have a feeling everyone's really busy trying to deal with mounting work and family commitments as we get closer to the holidays.

I am still really enjoying this, your guys roll playing puts mine to shame, I get locked into roll playing the character, but not interacting with the other players. I am slowly trying to change that, but a teething baby and a constantly 24 hours a day morning sickness wife is making my posting pretty patchy, I apologize for that.

The DMing and story telling is excellent, I actually invest in the wealth-fare of the NPCs. All in all, this is an excellent fun.

All in all, I would agree with the others and say long may we play this.

I think Kajetan's shyness and introversion are key to his character -- so it's logical that his interaction with the others would be more limited. Over time, he might build more trust and self-confidence allowing him to come out of his shell a little more... but then again, he might not. Kaj is distinct from the other PCs, and I think that's cool.

I don't envy what you're dealing with at home at the moment... best wishes!

TwiceBorn wrote:

And just in case some of you might be interested in seeing my campaign journal, here's the link. We often post between sessions, at the end of session summaries, to keep story and momentum going.

Whoa, that is an impressive looking campaign journal. Who does the photography? And some of the artwork looks ‘home-grown’, do you or someone in your group draw them? Very cool.

Thanks - glad you like it! The photography (minis and the few real world scenery shots) are mine. All other artwork is scanned from D&D/Pathfinder/d20 sourcebooks I own--mainly the Fantasy Flight Games Midnight line (which is the campaign were playing in).

And just in case some of you might be interested in seeing my campaign journal, here's the link. We often post between sessions, at the end of session summaries, to keep story and momentum going.

Yeah, that dungeon took far too long to complete, the funny thing was it really wasn’t an integral part of the campaign, I wasn’t even sure you were going to explore it. And would have been happy enough for you to skip it.

That's a mistake I made a few times in my current tabletop campaign. Provided a few hooks to avoid railroading, which led to long tangents that I quickly regretted.

Oh well, live and learn!

I can certainly steer clear of dungeons in future; I have some ideas of adventures and scenarios I want to run going forward in this game, I don’t think any of them would include large dungeons (one I can think of might have a cavern complex, but I can probably make it more of a narrative exploration and less of a grind. Another I was thinking of doing involves a ‘haunted’ castle, but that should have a greater social aspect than an ancient barrow would).

You have my complete trust! I have no doubt that whatever you will put out of your hat will be great! I'm pretty sure we have one of the best DMs on these boards, if not the best DM. Wish I could attend one of your real life sessions! ;-)

I’m only familiar with The Tea Party’s earlier work (to be honest I didn’t know they were still making music), but their song A Certain Slant of Light is one of my all time favourite songs.

They broke up a few years ago... but word is they're getting back together. I have mixed feelings about that -- I was actually okay with them splitting up rather than sinking too deeply in mediocrity (I felt their last album, "Seven Circles", was very weak). Hopefully, the time apart will have revitalized their creative juices... and hopefully they'll stay away from Bob Rock as producer (I would say his hand on "Seven Circles" contributed to their fall into mediocrity).

Yes, "A Certain Slant of Light" is a great song. Their best album, IMO, is probably "The Edges of Twilight."

Forgot to say...

Moth, the campaign has been great. And just so you know, the one chapter I enjoyed the least was the exploration of that barrow beneath the ruined tower. I think our PCs shine in the wilderness, in urban areas, and in scenarios that emphasize roleplaying and investigation. The dungeon that took us about a year in real time to explore just felt a little tedious to me after a while. Everything else has been top notch. Not to say that a little bit of dungeon action now and again is bad, but overall... I prefer the greater range of options that PCs can pursue outside of dungeons. The great outdoors and urban or even rural environments seem better suited to the "fleeing the Inquisition" theme.

That having been said... others may feel differently?

Yes, good roleplaying all, it continues to be a joy and an honour to GM for you all.

I hope you enjoyed this last episode, I modified it from an old (2nd edition era) Dungeon magazine adventure, I thought it fit the theme of this campaign quite well. I hope it didn’t feel too much like you were being led by the nose and / or chasing your own tails ... had you examined the scriptorium a little earlier in proceedings you might have found some clues to Abel’s targets and been able to take him on sooner ... although fighting him without his primary target being an NPC would have been a daunting and difficult process!

Thank you, Moth, for all the time and energy you've put into being a DM for this fabulous game.

I recognized the adventure, because I own the issue in question and also thought at some point of running the adventure in one of my campaigns. The setting/tone were very original, and I really liked the more realistic feel and low-magic investigative aspect of the adventure. Probably one of the better scenarios published in Dungeon, regardless of edition. Lucky for you, I did not remember the plot, characters, etc.

I remember Keildrithe and Kaj visiting the library, and I think we had the intention of visiting the scriptorium, but for some unknown reason ended up not doing so... grrrr...

Heh. Thanks TB, I appreciate that!

Not TOO shabby, considering I finished it at 1am! ;P

I was trying to get across a few things, without making him sound like a romantic fop or a complete git! I guess all that reading/research I am doing finally paid off! ;)

Nicolai took the high road and was the better man towards Pharris. Keildrithe failed miserably (especially in the interaction that too place between spoilers) in that regard.

But my pointy wizard's hat is off, once more, to you!

Either I simply do NOT listen to enough music, or I am just seriously lacking in talent (or both!) but once again, a fitting and touching end to a chapter. Well done mr bard, well done! <golf clap!> :)

Thanks for the kind words--but all I've done is mastered the art of plagiarism. Truth is, I have a vast collection of music, but not much that is recent. I certainly don't follow the trends. Jeff Martin is a Canadian singer, better known as the lead vocalist and guitar player for The Tea Party (not to be confused with the American right wing political movement... I doubt the band has right wing political leanings). The Tea Party also had a period of success in Australia, if I'm not mistaken.

It is fun to sift through my CDs looking for the right "end songs," though.

AND as long as we're handing out kudos, golf claps for everybody! Another chapter of excellent role-playing all around! My personal fave of the moment, Kajetan peeing his robes for an epic failure on a will save! (And STILL getting back into the action faster than anyone else who failed that save!) ;)

And I still get a big smile whenever I read about Kajetan's struggles with his "evil backpack." Great personality trait.

SPeaking as a guy with a home office that has 5 FULL bookshelves in it,...
You cannot buy stuff this good! Thanks again for letting me join when you did! :D

Thank you for being a part of it! I really admire the amount of description/detail you put into your posts.

But kudos to all for another great chapter! More than 4.5 years and we're still going strong!

Rags,

Just wanted to say that I thought Nicolai's "farewell Pharris" post was very powerful. Wow... well done!

I have a little time to kill at the office today, so I thought I'd chime in with my two cents...

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

With little deviation, the majority of Pathfinder products have the same voice - that of a vague, third-person, semi-in-world yet omniscient persona....The Players Companions are where this breaks most regularly, slipping occasionally into second person and addressing the reader as "you"....What do you think about that? Is that a cool thing? Does it engage you more? Do you think it's clearer or more exciting to have an article say "ninjas of the Thousand Bleeding Stings do X, Y, and Z" or "YOU do X, Y, and Z?"

Personally, I like textbook voice more than addressing the reader by saying "you." That's because whether I'm a GM or a player, I can read it as if I were perusing a reference manual. And, if I'm the GM, it's world-specific content I can then adapt and use for my campaign. On the other hand, if I'm a player, I can read it as if the material were written by someone "in world" and incorporate that into how my character would perceive such information. I don't need the use of the word "you" to make it more personal for me.

So, if you write as "YOU do X, Y, and Z..." it's far more jarring for me. It breaks the immersion, even for text that's just conveying new game-related information. By keeping it textbook style, you can imagine it however you want. If it's written in second person, you can't imagine it however you want (as player or GM). That's because "you" puts you in the middle of it whether you want to keep a more detached, omniscient view or not...

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

Topic two has to do with what I said above about the voice being "semi-in-world"...But for players, is that immersive, or does it add an unnecessary barrier between the meaning and the reader's point of reference?...In short, if you're a player having... say... a magic item described to you, does it help you more and/or get you more interested to know the orb is the size of a

...

I agree 100% with Neil. I really don't like second person in sourcebooks, I support "semi-in-world" text and terminology, and I love "real world inspiration" sidebars (but not real world analogies, like "the size of a basketball").

Now I can see ‘thieving gypsies’ being very much a derogatory term!

I’ve always thought of gypsy as being a somewhat generic term for a group of nomadic people, including, but not limited to the Romany people. I know that it is often used specifically to refer to the Romany, but in this way I wouldn’t have thought it any more offensive than calling an Australian a Skip, a Canadian a Canuck or an American a Yank – which is to say that while they might be used offensively, or an individual might choose to take offense to them, they are not offensive terms in and of themselves (I don't think).

Seems like a reasonable analysis to me. I'm with the mighty Rags. Carry on...

A knowledge, local check might reveal some information about ‘gypsies’.

By the way, is anyone offended by the use of that term? I’ve never known it to be a derogatory word in and of itself, though like any word I’m sure it can be used in a derogatory fashion. However I read a post recently on Paizo where someone implied that it was an inherently derogatory term.

I can understand how some might view the term as inherently derogatory--especially the automatic association between the term 'gypsy' and thievery. But I personally am not offended by your use of the term in the way you have, and I am also very comfortable with controversial ideas, prejudices and even racism appearing in the game. The real world is ugly, and I like my fantasy worlds just as ugly and complex. Of course, if someone else in the group is offended by the use of the term, then by all means, try to find something that they consider more appropriate. But if no one objects, then I would suggest you keep things as they are...

Moth:

BA (Hons) sociology, and Master of Arts also in sociology. Was half-way through a PhD in the same discipline when I dropped out.

I've tried to do a bit of searching, but have come up with little. I thought they were looking for a venture captain in Calgary, but now I can't find it.

I'm not interested in the job (no time, I'm afraid), but I'd like to know what I can do to help. I'd like to start GM'ing events at cons, but none show up when I search on the site here. Come on, I know Calgary has a great support network for gaming, let me know how I can help!

Not getting enough gaming in between the two groups you play with/DM for?

;-)

I'm terrible about keeping track of loot. The only thing I've added since the fight with Kullen is the 100 gp each Boland mentioned for the sale of the book to Allustan.

This was the loot from Kullen's gang:

+1 greataxe (Brashen)
Potion of bull’s strength (Brashen)
Potion of CLW x2 (Brashen)

Cloak of resistance +1 (Andolphas)
Potion of mage armour (Andolphas)

Potion of CLW (Harrigan)
Potion of shield of faith +2 (Harrigan)

Boland didn't keep anything, but he got access to the spellbook and copied several new ones to his own.

____Sell:__________
Masterwork guisarme 309
shortsword 310
Masterwork studded leather armour 175
Potion of jump 50
1/2 value for resale = 422

53 gp
19 sp

Total to split: 476.9
Per Person: 119 gp, 2 sp, 2 cp

So that is the total each of us should have in addition to the money Allustan paid us for the book and other items. If this was already divvied up somewhere ignore me, but I couldn't find it when scrolling back.

Thanks for checking this, Ithuriel, and my apologies for not responding sooner -- I tend to neglect the discussion thread. I have on Andolphas's sheet that he took the potion of shield of faith +2, but not the potion of mage armour (which I assumed would have gone to Boland). So willing to negotiate... :-)

Dot

No worries, I really wasn't expecting charity from Smenk -- but that didn't stop me from RPing what my PC would have tried to push for, even if he knew it would be futile.

And Fatespinner, don't worry about Andolphas's attitude, it's not directed at you as a player. It took a while and certain shared experiences for him to develop a bond with Brashen and Harrigan, too... :-)

Inquisitor of Pholtus meets cleric of Wee Jas (and a bunch of non-lawful ruffians)... this could get ugly. But welcome aboard, Fatespinner! :-)

Almost all of the discussion I see here involves point buy characters.

How many people still roll their characters up? My group does, but we are either old timers, or those the old timers introduced to gaming. I am curious how many people still role thier characters and if thier is a corralation between that and length of gaming. I also onder what the influence of point buy systems like white wolf had on it.

So here are the questions.

Do you roll your characters?

Is your answer the deefault of your gaming group?

How long have you been gaming?

What system did you first game in?

Thank you.

1) Yes, I usually roll up characters (4d6 drop the lowest d6, six times, arrange as desired).

2) Answer 1 applies to at least half of my gaming group (of course, everybody rolls stats when they play in a campaign that I am running).

3) I have been gaming since 1985 or so.

4) First game system: D&D BECMI.

A sad loss indeed, I had a great deal of respect for the man and his ideas.

Aside from spending a couple of nights in relative security, does anyone need in-game downtime? Andolphas doesn't really need it (although I'll be getting about a month of downtime off the boards in real life starting next week). Is Boland planning on crafting magic items?

I remember holidays....... they are a fun distant memory.

Iceland, sounds super, lets hope no erupting volcanoes interrupt your plans.

Knocking on lots of wood! An underground volcano recently ruined a southern stretch of the ring road, but at least it hasn't spewed tons of ash into the air.

Iceland, wow, sound exciting! Have a great trip!

Thanks, I'm sure I will!

Anyone else have vacation plans this summer?

Ohhh! Iceland! Awesome. I hear it looks like an alien planet in a lot of places.

Yep, should be both unique and spectacular -- can't wait!

Hey all,

Heads up regarding my vacation plans. I'm leaving for Iceland on July 20, and won't be back until August 22. I doubt I'll have much time to check my e-mail over there, and even less time to post... so assume I won't be able to post at all (a big part of the trip will be spent trekking in the wilderness)

Hey all,

Heads up regarding my vacation plans. I'm leaving for Iceland on July 20, and won't be back until August 22. I doubt I'll have much time to check my e-mail over there, and even less time to post... so assume I won't be able to post at all (a big part of the trip will be spent trekking in the wilderness).

Hey guys,

I'm going to have minimal, if any, opportunities to post between now and the beginning of June (alot of late nights at work coming up, combined with out of town weekend trips in the mountains). I'll drop in if/when I can.

Sorry for the inconvenience... Moth, please NPC Keildrithe as required!

Thanks, I found it on page 17.

When I think of a medieval or renæssance fantacy world. I wouldn't assume that the common soldier, thief or hunter would be able to read or write. Does anyone use some good house rules to cover that.

Maybe I could make an background Character Trait called illiterate. That makes the character come from a illiterate background and therefore unable to read or write. This trait could give free feat at the start of the game, but if wanted to learn the read or write later in the cause of the game, it would cost you a feat.

FFG's Midnight campaign setting (my current favourite) has all PCs be illiterate unless they spend skill points in each language in which they become proficient.

The setting assumes that PCs fluently speak their own native tongue, and sometimes a few other languages (according to racial background).

Learning to speak/understand other languages requires the expenditure of skill points and works as follows:

1 skill point = pidgin competence in one language
2 skill points = basic competence in one language
3 skill points = fluent in one language

A PC can only invest 1 skill point per level to enhance their fluency in a particular language (i.e., contrary to 3.5 and PFRPG, the investment of one skill point in linguistics does not grant you automatic fluency and literacy in a language).

Skill ranks in one language can enhance competence in related languages.

Moreover, one's level of verbal competency in a particular language results in modifiers to Diplomacy and Bluff checks (e.g., a PC who has only pidgin competence in orcish would incur significant penalties to their Diplomacy and Bluff checks, if the orcs and PCs did not share another common language).

The same generally goes for literacy. You can invest one skill point per language per level... assuming you have access to someone who can teach you to read (a rarity in the Midnight setting, as teaching someone to read is punishable by death under the laws of the Shadow... ignorance is key to domination).

While the most recent edition of the Midnight setting was developed for 3.5, I think it works just as well with PFRPG. I find it a much more believable system. In Midnight, the acquisition of language and literacy skills can provide an immense advantage, and is well worth the investment of skill points (especially when magic is rare and dangerous, and spells like comprehend languages, etc., are difficult to come by).

I realize this might not work in everyone's game...

Still, I encourage you to check out the Midnight 2nd ed campaign setting (still available in PDF from DriveThru RPG... at $9.99, it's a steal!

If Pharris can leave alive in some way that would leave the door open for her to return one day. I doubt that will happen, because as the kids get older I seem to have less time not more. Although this is the game I would like to return to.

Over the less six months, I keep hoping that there is a light at he end of the tunnel where I get to enjoy the Pbps again, but every time teething or some such has set us back again.

To Rags, Twiceborn, Ash, Brashen and yourself I say thank you for a grand experience, one that given me some memorable moments in gaming.

The contract arrived yesterday for the writing but its only a small gig, 7000+ words nothing special. The company is Raging Swan and the publisher is a mate.

Good luck one and all

Cheers
Andy

I can't believe I didn't notice this post until now...

Thanks for the kind words, Andy, and best wishes. Playing with you has been a great experience, and I'm sorry to see you go.

All the best with Raging Swan, I have previously purchased some of their products and have been quite impressed by them (they're definitely one of my favourite 3PP).

Cheers!

I voted NDP... and live in Overlord Harper's riding. At least my $2 went to the NDP.

Relieved to see it's not just me!

Come on, Paizo, I'm trying to give you my money... why won't you accept it? :-)

Congrats on the birth of your little one, Ithuriel.

PlotyJ wrote:

Greyhawk Ruins

I'm curious, is this Mona & Jacob's Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk or is it Chris Mortika and all those others' Castle Greyhawk from the late 80s?

I thought Labyrinth of Madness was great but I didn't include it in my From 2E list cuz it didn't seem to have anything novel, nothing that I hadn't really seen or done before. It was just a really cool, high level adventure.

Dead Gods, on the other hand, was 2E greatness. I don't mind admitting that personally I had more fun with Labyrinth but the return of Orcus in a Campaign and planescaping through Dead Gods in all its glory is much better.

Probably this one - the second published version of the ruins (2E): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_Ruins.

To be clear, I intentionally bracketed "socialism" when referring to Denmark and the Scandinavian countries. The correct term for the dominant (albeit waning) political philosophy in those states is social democratic. My apologies if I inadvertently confused people. I don't consider socialism and communism to be the same thing, although they may share certain characteristics. Social democracies include a blend of capitalism, with the implementation of social programs (public education, universal health care, and the like) and the partial redistribution of wealth through the permanent establishment of a welfare state based on progressive taxation (the redistribution of wealth aspect being often labelled as "socialist" by Conservatives where I live).

I "know" that the Free Market, if allowed to operate, will produce better results than the Unions have. The aim of any business is to make money. That's flat out the perspective of WotC and Paizo Publishing.

While not having unions (that I'm aware of), both WotC's actions and Paizo's actions can be seen in how they treat their customers; and their employees.

The Company has to make money. But they also have to take care of their employees to see that they are happy. Thirdly, they need to make sure that their customers are also happy.

WotC has lay offs during the start of winter and practically ignores the 3PP market. This is because the customers don't want 3PP stuff, so WotC should go insular and just take their loyal following with them.

Paizo, on the other hand. I can't remember about them hearing about one lay-off during the beginning of Winter. The customers are happy since Paizo seems to support 3PPs.

--------------------
As for the Public Employee Labor Unions.

I don't see how they benefit the Tax-Payer with their continued existence. Once again, the FREE MARKET should be at work here in the private sector, and in the public sector, the Employees who slack should really find something they can do and do well without working in the Public Sector.

Government should be there to protect our personal property from harm. They should provide for the common defense from Enemies both foreign and domestic, and keep their little hands out of our personal lives. The government should not tax the public with an income tax, but they should make all of their money on tariffs and service fees (since Copyright and patents are a PRIVILEGE, the government should impose a service fee for copyright and extensions beyond 5 years and patent extensions beyond 10 years, for example).

Public Labor Unions are leaches on the Tax Payer and should provide honest reasons why they should remain in existence.

Not only is the "free market" a myth, but the benefits of the so-called free market are overstated, in my opinion. Excessive deregulation of markets is what caused the global financial mess that we're in now.

I have had the privilege of living in Denmark for one year -- a "socialist" country with very high union density (70% of the workforce, if I'm not mistaken), a wide range of publicly-funded social programs, and yes, high taxes. Year after year, the Scandinavian countries are noted as having the best standards of living, lowest poverty/child poverty rates, low crime rates and homelessness, etc., with economies that were doing well prior to the recession. Yeah... socialist principles really are evil...

Thanks for the support! It helps to know there are people all over who see what it's all about (even if you do add a funny u into the labor movement). We're still trying to figure out what to do next now that the law has passed. For now it's keep up the protests and do what we can to recall the senators who voted for this disaster.

"Funny u" in labour? Heh... yeah, we kept a few additional letters in some of our words even after gaining independence from the Brits. Was the American removal of the "u" from words like labour and colour a form of rebellion against the colonialists? :-)

Andrew R wrote:

There is plenty of ethical issues with employers but you have the choice not to work for them.

In this job market? I disagree -- a lot of people either need to stick with whatever job they get (and you hate them for griping about it), or else they have no job at all (and you hate them for being "freeloaders"). The third choice, I suppose, is for them to accept serfdom and like it?

I'll second that. A lot of my clients -- immigrants, Temporary Foreign Workers, people with disabilities, many women -- work in conditions that are not of their choosing. It's easy to say "quit and get a better job." Not only are jobs harder to come by in this economy, but members of marginalized populations have an even more difficult time getting another job (much less a good job) than others might, whether due to language or systemic barriers, fewer educational opportunities, etc.

I think that's enough for now. Time to go to another rally.

Thanks for your insights, Berinor, and best wishes with the protests.

I know that we have had rallies here in Calgary (Alberta, Canada) in support of the Wisconsin workers and others whose collective bargaining rights are under attack, and that the Alberta Federation of Labour has recently made some modest financial contributions to support labour in Wisconsin to express our solidarity with you.

We know very well that what you are dealing with in the US may come to Canada (and especially conservative Alberta) before long.

Hold strong!

Union WERE ONCE good idea, now a tool and nothing more. If they gave a damn about workers they would be lobbying laws to protect all workers not just protecting the non workers and ripping all off to send blank checks to the dems

And this may be where our experiences/context differ. I live in Alberta, Canada (a province which has had a firmly entrenched conservative government for 40 some years, and where union density is the lowest in the country). We also arguably have the weakest employment-related legislation in Canada (where protection/rights of workers are concerned). Out here, the Alberta Federation of Labour does continually lobby the government to extend rights and protections to all workers, and not just unionized workers. They have lobbied to make the minimum wage a living wage, to extend occupational healthy and safety legislation, workers' compensation coverage and basic employment standards to agricultural workers (Alberta is the only province that denies those rights to agricultural workers, even the rate of disabling injuries and fatalities is far greater in agriculture than in any other industry in Alberta), etc. Exploitation is alive and well where I live.

I work for a charitable organization that helps workers (mainly non-union) understand and access the rights and benefits they are entitled to under law. And let me tell you, unions have never been more relevant. At least they can ensure that due process is followed in situations involving disciplinary action and termination. Non-unionized workers, especially in small to medium-sized enterprises, retail, and other blue collar and service jobs, and especially if they come from marginalized populations, are routinely canned in ways that contravene employment legislation.

I could go on to cite many other examples in which unions continue to play a critical role.

Both parties are evil, the quicker you realize this the quicker we can find solutions.

Yeah, I can agree to an extent with you on that. So how then do we move beyond the bi-partisan system and find solutions that will be agreeable to the vast majority of the population? Given the ideological polarization that has occurred on both the left and right (I admit to having my own ideological bias), what kind of common ground can we hope to find? I can't help but despair that such a thing is possible...

Now some of the republicans are coming out and saying that the fight wasn't about just busting unions, but was more about making sure Obama couldn't get re-elected.

Yeah, I know.

Now that's democracy. Destroy your opponent's entire support base so that they can't raise the funds required to campaign against the corporate machine, so they can't have a voice and get re-elected.

Should the Democrats try to bankrupt all the corporations that back the Republicans? That would be ethical now, wouldn't it?

So the self-appointed world defender of freedom and democracy, with its two-party system will be reduced to a one party "democracy," if all goes according to the Republican plan... that sounds promising for everyone who isn't rich...