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Sure, but ultimately who cares if you do ten less damage a round than a archer fighter.
I was just thinking about starting a thread to spitball ideas for trap making talents!
I'm not sure what metric your using to determine the efficacy of each talent, but I think the simplest way to approach it would be to divorce rogue traps from the standard trap system as it is both too complex and not really viable due to crafting costs and manufacturing time.
Have you considered a more meta approach, using the character ability modifier like intelligence to determine the number of traps that may be manufactured in the morning? You could then choose from three basic traps like poison or explosive. Dc's could be set at 10+1/2 level plus int.
The curve blade is a good option. I would still put a thirteen in your strength because power attack is worthwhile with a two hander. You could potentially put fourteen in both your strength and dex, and then focus on dex after that due to how studied combat works. That way you end up with more flexibility. With that array, you could attack with either your melee or ranged option relatively well.
Chengar Qordath wrote:
This person gets it.
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Overpowered? Someone needs to go and take grade five math again.
An entire class feature that gives you what, eight damage per swing? I guess I'll have to go back to my perfectly balanced hippo druid with vital strike feats... Pfff
Highlarious... Parsing rules grammar into oblivion since nineteen seventy two.
I guess if you could recoup half of those penalties through class features(excluding rage), then with rage you would be like a paladin without smite for the fairly meager benefit of a larger weapon die.
Titan fighter treats a large weapon as a two hander that is appropriate for your size at the expense of to hit chance. Jotungrip allows you to weild two handers as one handers at the expense of to hit. Seems legal, but you are looking at -6/-6 to hit I think, which would make this combo unviable.
Edit: I think it's actually -8 to hit. I feel like the titan fighter ability should override the clause in the jotungrip write up, but I could see people denying the interaction due to the specific wording. Still, seems like a pretty silly point to get stuck on when the titan fighter treats large weapons as medium weapons at a penalty. Either way, every swing is more or less a hail Mary pass from space.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
This is certainly true at lower levels, but keeping up with bab is tough unless you have no problem with NPC enemies having way above average wealth.
Im not commenting on the math, just the fact that your adding the bonuses together to make the number associated with power attack more alarming and ignoring the fact that each bonus has an associated penalty.
Have you ever considered running for office? Those guys do this sort of thing all the time.
And yet, you still can't point to where it says elementals can't read.
I think Ashiel is pointing at the logical contradiction that comes from something without a mind being evil inherently when evil is a moral position. You can't be evil if you have no intent really. But then, this is kind of an issue that comes from the idea of inherent evil in the first place. You can't really be evil because only an action can be. Its kind of like calling a nuke evil, when its the act of using it that is evil.
I'm not sure that its a bad idea for the reasons you state, it may be for others though. Precision damage doesn't multiply upon crit, but base numbers will. I think the magus would benefit more from this feat than dervish dance though for sure. It does interact with two weapon fighting which would make your standard rogue build much more impressive.
Just leverage your stats and switch hit. If enemies are harassing at range, then put some arrows in them. If they close to mêlée, quick draw that curve blade and slice and dice. Your character is just less focused than your dwarf friend, not particularly weaker. I mean, you are only a few points of DPR away from one of the best face smashers around, that's not bad. I bet you can put up better defenses as well with the high dexterity score.
Here's a compromise that brings dex guys to the table without dex to damage. This should only work if there is no way to get dex to damage.
agile combatant: prerequisites: weapon finesse, dex 19
Agile combatants are gifted at exploiting their enemies weaknesses by leveraging their agility. While using a light or finesse weapon, the critical threshold is increased by one for every two points of your dexterity modifier. This feat overlaps with the improved critical feat.
Saigo Takamori wrote:
This would be fine if dexterity to armour wasn't restricted by max dex.
Four to initiative and two to reflex is akin to getting a plus eight and a plus four to your dexterity for those purposes respectively. That's likely to actually put you ahead of your dexterity counterpart because you won't be dumping your dexterity as a martial to begin with. Likewise, a dexterity based character needs a thirteen in their strength score to acquire power attack. In neither case is a stat dumped, the strength user is ahead on initiative for the first few levels and likely at par on reflex. Never mind that the strength based martial isn't as dependent upon his dexterity to keep his armor class which means he really doesn't need to take improved initiative unless he really wants to and can take power attack instead.
In the end, the strength user will do more damage consistently while the dexterity user will benefit from better saves in the long run and a better skill bonus in general. Where, in this scenario, is the overpowered statement making sense?
You think your making the game more balanced, but what would really happen is that casters would just change tactics. They would have fewer spells and similar dc's, or they would focus on things like conjuration to wreck your day. The only real change in the game that would arise out of this is that agile characters would be non viable after level twelve or so.
Edit: in other words, is it more realistic that an agile master swordsman like the dude from the princess bride can't actually fight well after a while? Doesn't seem very realistic to me.
If you mean its more strategic because every melee character has the same stat loadout and casters still don't give a hot damn because they still carry the chumps anyway, then yes I guess the game becomes more strategic.
Your propagating a double standard. Martial characters need to be Gilgamesh to keep up with the party wizard, not the same as us. I really cant fathom this disassociation. How does making one group work within the confines of the real world work at all when the other group, making up two thirds of the classes, does not?
Yay! Class number one is like a totally good warrior who can fight like a tonne of town guards without breaking a sweat.
Meanwhile, the other guy is basically Zues....
First, piranha strike only works with light weapons, which the rapier is not. Second, piranha strike explicitly states that it doesn't work with power attack.
Edit: Finally, if you have to pull a whole load of multiclassing and shenanigans to prove your point, then your point wasn't very good to begin with.
The thing is, it doesn't really matter. The only thing dex to damage ever does is make you competent at dealing damage. If you add a bunch more feats to twf, then you get more damage. At the end of the day though you spend resources to do that at the expense of other things. Should spending feats to be effective at fighting in melee not actually make you competent in melee?
Your bard scenario involves, with the improved weapon finesse feat, at least five feats to two weapon fight for good offence (not great, just good) at the expense of difficulty casting in combat without further investment in quick draw.... So, this hypothetical character doesn't do what the player wants until level twelve. That's a long time playing something in a way that doesn't fit the image of your character and this includes a feat that doesn't even exist.
Does that seem really powerful?
Okay, I want to clarify that I am talking about the game as it exists, not some other game that you wish it was. If you want everyone to be more mad, then give it a shot, but be prepared to change just about every metric the system works under. I prefer to facilitate fun when I play games. If someone wants to be a super agile ninja type that cavitates the atmosphere with his blade? Sounds cool, let's do it. Realism and frustration are inextricably linked in pathfinder.
@Oly The charisma based initiative and armor stuff comes from the Oracle class. An Oracle can have his armor, initiative, spells and saves coming from charisma pretty early(like immediately, or near enough) but then its magic so realism can go away.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Because dexterity, as in your dexterity score, is not actually your dexterity so much as it is a meta game construct that has certain effects. The whole point of stat consolidation is to take the meta games bias towards single stat dependency and help those classes that have too many conflicting ability score needs and bringing them closer to the standard game expectations.
I don't care about realism because the game doesn't care either. The game is designed with monsters and stat blocks to challenge a big beefy dude with a two handed weapon. If you ignore that, then you end up with your dashing han solo type who can't actually do any of the things he's supposed to be able to do. That's why these arguments are so annoying to me because it really just comes down to a small group of players not getting to have fun because realism.
As an aside, charisma can be used for every save, armor class and initiative at this point if you were unaware.
I would agree with this if two things were true.1) if the wizard needed more than his intelligence to be effective.
2) if I thought realism was important to enforce upon game mechanics.
Since neither are true....
Heh, no sarcasm tags necessary. :)
That... would actually be pretty cool. Not sold on the specifics, but the one off burn out style attack based on how burned you are is neat.