Shiyara the High Mediator

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Thanks, yeah that makes sense.


Say you have acid splash, but you're able to cast 3rd level spells, so it's automatically heightened to 3rd. Does that qualify as a 3rd level spell to then cast elemental tempest to deal 3d8 to any one attacking you?


There is some confusion to me on what stacks.

Enlarge Person plus Large Polymorph doesn't stack (afaik)
Can you still cast enlarge person on a monstrous humanoid to make it bigger?

What about Enlarge Person and Small Polymorph?

If the spells don't stack the assumption would then be that you still become a large creature.

What about enlarge Person and Impact Weapon? As I see, impact only applies to the weapon so it isn't a size increase (per se) and therefore it should stack.
Does an impact weapon stack with Lead Blades? I'll assume they don't.

Now the same question for a large polymorph and the Strong Jaw spell?

Side question:
Does a magical weapon stack with the magical weapon spell? Say you have +1 Flaming Longsword, you cast improved magic which gives you +3. Do you now have a +3 Flaming Longsword, or a +4 Flaming Longsword.

Does a +5 bane/alignment weapon give +7 to attack and damage against a specific creature/alignment, do they add up to +9?


Well, not really, you still used the third level slot, but sure.


Elemental Spell wrote:
Benefit: Choose one energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. You may replace a spell’s normal damage with that energy type or split the spell’s damage, so that half is of that energy type and half is of its normal type.

You could prepare an acid fireball, but as you cast it just do regular (full) fire damage, correct?

Just to be sure.


Gisher wrote:


Your quote seems to be in error. The CRB and UE weapon tables list disarm, nonlethal, reach, and trip under Special for whips. Finesse is not a defined special feature.

I'm going by these two pages:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/Weapons/#exotic-one-handed
This one lists under special: disarm, nonlethal, reach, trip

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/whip
This lists under Weapon Feature(s): finesse, reach.


Chess Pwn wrote:

Whip's aren't a reach weapon though. All we have is "The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach"

This means that the whip is ALWAYS 15ft reach aka +10ft of reach because that's what the whip says it is.

OR

Balor is wrong and whip is 3x and the 15ft in the description was an example of the 3x rule at play for small and medium and not always true.

Weapon Feature(s) wrote:
finesse, reach.

How isn't it a reach weapon?


No.

The additional attack from haste is only available as part of a Full Round (Attack) Action.

Haste wrote:
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon. The attack is made using the creature’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a speed weapon, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can’t use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)


That's why 15 and 19 are Magus Arcana Feats to which the character otherwise has no access. Sorry that I didn't make that much clearer.

Well, the point is to get Improved Initiative at first level and only at level 3 retrain it (that is Improved Initiative) to Accomplished Sneak Attacker in order to conform with the rules.
In retrospect, I might have worded that poorly.

Accomplished Sneak Attacker wrote:
Your number of sneak attack dice cannot exceed half your character level (rounded up).

Aka: 2d6 at level 3.

Retraining FAQ wrote:

Can I retrain a feat to replace it with a feat I didn’t qualify for at the level I originally gained that feat?

Yes. As long as the new feat is a valid feat for your current character, you can retrain the old feat and replace it with the new feat.

For example, if you are a 3rd-level rogue who took Improved Initiative at 1st level, you can retrain that feat and replace it with Weapon Focus. Even though Weapon Focus has a prerequisite of “base attack bonus +1” (which means you couldn’t take it as a 1st-level rogue), it is a valid feat for your current level (3rd), and is therefore a valid choice for retraining.)

As for aligned class not working with a Prestige Class, I haven't seen anything indicating that it wouldn't work. It just says you pick a class you have at least one level in.

Aligned Class (Ex) wrote:
At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class.

A class does not necessarily mean a base class. And having one level in Arcane Trickster it seems to qualify. But maybe you're privy to information that I'm not.

Oh yeah, the half elf Skill Focus would indeed go into stealth.

These things aside, what would you recommend? Arcane Accuracy and discard any notion of using Arcane Pool for weapons? Maybe a Crossbow for when you run out of spells...


I've been reading up some magus guides and stumbled upon the Prescient Attack Arcana, which would be ridiculously useful for an Arcane Trickster build. Making enemies flatfooted by simply hitting them with a weapon attack.
According to this thread http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uvgh?Prescient-Attack-and-weapon-attacks, any attack that requires you to make an attack roll (other than spells that have you roll for an attack of some other entity, like Black Tentacles).

By the way, we play without Weapon Finesse, every character is just assumed to have it. You'd have to pick that up if you go the Whip Route, and it would be great for your touch spells as well.

Half Elf for Paragon Surge

25 PB (+2 INT)
8 16 12 18 10 14 (if you can get a Headband of Mental Prowess, INT and CHA +6, the Starlit Caster boon would give you +5 to overcome Spell Resistance)
or
10 16 12 19 12 8

Traits:
Magical Lineage (Fiery Shuriken)
Bifurcarted Magic (if it works with Alchemist, otherwise Magical Knack and Reactionary)
Elf Racial Trait: Multidisciplined

Favorite Class: Wizard

1. Vivisectionist, SA 1d6
Improved Initiative
Accomplished Sneak Attacker (retrain at level 3)

3. SA 2d6

2-4 Wizard, Void School (opposition Fire)
Emissary Familiar of Luck Domain, for that one round to go Nova with a bit of luck). Also having guidance cast on you every round should come in handy as well.

3.
Arcane Pool -2

5. Arcane Trickster
Deific Obedience (Desna)

6.-15.
Evangelist (Aligned Class Arcane Trickster)

7. SA 3d6
Prescient Attack

9. SA 4d6
Heighten Spell

11. SA 5d6
Spell Strike (maybe for a River Whip, to deliver touch spells at 15 feet distance, like Vampiric Touch).

13. SA 6d6
Preferred Spell: Fiery Shuriken

15 SA 7d6
Bane Blade or Arcane Accuracy, Accurate Strike, Quicken Magic or Maximized Magic

That choice depends whether you want to go with an actual whip, in which case you'd want to get give it spell storing. This would necessitate a Wayfinder with an Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone (10500 GP). That would be the Accurate Strik, Bane Blade Route.
Not sure how Reveal Weakness would interact with a conductive weapon since it doesn't require a touch attack, but that would be great of course.

Arcane Accuracy and probably Maximized Magic (for when you deliver that Vampiric Touch with sneak attack) would probably work better if you just wanna stick to your spells.

16-20 Wizard

17
Quicken Spell
Wizard Bonus Feat: Elemental Spell (Acid?)

So you have enough Metamagic Feats to pick up Spell Perfection with Paragon Surge.

19
Bane Blade or Arcane Accuracy, Accurate Strike, Quicken Magic or Maximize Magic

20

The main problem of this build is that you're gonna be starved for feats, but getting the prescient attack is really worth it. Paragon Surge also allows some flexibility, for example in getting Dampen Presence against an enemy with blindsense...but then again, thanks to Prescient Attack you could sneak attack them anyway.
I would also recommend playing this build with Fractional BAB and saves.

Thoughts, recommendations?


Gravity Bow modifies all attacks for a duration and therefore is not affected by the "that particular attack" clause. I've also since come to the conclusion that the swift weapon enchantments from the Magus Arcane pool would apply.


Just a couple of days ago I was wondering the same thing.

Arrow Eruption wrote:
However, this spell cannot reproduce any spells or other limited-use magical effects that you used to enhance that particular attack. This includes such effects as the true strike spell, as well as any area spell you might have placed on the arrow by means of the arcane archer’s imbue arrow class feature.

Ricochet shot is one such effect.

When I was asking myself this question, it took the form of using quicken spell true strike for the second roll to get a plus 20 on the arrow eruption due to that single attack roll you have to make for it.
This wouldn't work with ricochet shot because it states that you imbue one arrow, not a spell.

Now here's another question. What happens when arrow eruption kills an enemy, can you then cast another arrow eruption?

Also, here's the thread I posted my original question.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uvtj?True-Strike-and-Arrow-Eruption


Holding the Charge wrote:
If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges

Looks like it.

There isn't a shackled condition, I wonder how it would be ruled. Probably like entangled and no spellcasting that requires somatic components. Might be difficult to get a hold of you component pouch too.

What about if the feet are tied. No more movement, maybe jumping awkwardly around at 1/4 speed.

Edit:
After reading the text again this line jumps out.
However, as part of the spell’s casting, you can make a melee touch attack against a creature.

So, no.


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1. As I understand it allows you to pick Craft Magical Arms and Armor (at the expense of a feat of course) and then substitute the spellcraft check with your craft weapon check to craft the armor. But yes.

2. Yes.

3. Not as far as I know.


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Since they arguably give you complete concealment and you can specifically attack through them, sure. Probably only once though, unless you have some possibility to move the other ring around and maybe more importantly, obscure it from the enemy's sight.


Damn, I didn't get that memo. Thanks for clarifying.


They aren't iterative attacks as part of a full round action, so it probably wouldn't apply as intended but as written it becomes problematic. That being said, I wouldn't allow it.


As part of the spell you get one free touch attack.
Unless you use a full round you can't deliver two touch attacks and that only once you have a BAB of at least 6 (or have haste).

I should mention that touch attacks with multiple touches can be held. So you could attack again the next round again. Say you're a third level cleric, you attack as part of the casting for free. Then next round you can use another standard action to attack again and on the third round one more time since the spell last for 3 rounds (even thought you'd get 4 attacks out of it).

Btw, this action is called holding the charge and is dispelled if you cast another spell.

I don't know many cleric spells but a cure light wounds spell would go (for a level 1 cleric) from 1d8+1 to 1d8+2. Or being a level 5 cleric, you could get an additional bonus from Divine Favor at caster level 6.
This reagent doesn't extend the maximum, so this caster level 6 cleric would still cast cure light wounds at d8+5 rather than d8+6.


I guess it could increase the number of touch attacks you can make while providing one less turn to deliver all of them. An easier spell may be vampiric touch, available at wizard 5, it would deal 2d6 damage. With one more caster level you could deal 3d6.


Touch of bloodletting has no caster level based effects other than duration. Given the wording of the other spell it turns out you don't even get increased duration.


I'm not very versed in druids so this is all conjecture from the information you've given me. Do higher levels allow druids to turn into bigger elementals? If he's still normal size, you could use the huge elemental HD16 as a base, and then scale it down to whatever your druids size is.
2d10 would probably come down to 1d10 (from huge to normal).


The general assumption is that if there is no other information or doesn't require any sort of cost it's a standard action.


In old DnD there was a rule about applying enough (maybe more than half the total hitpoints) damage to an appendix would render it unusable, which is how I'd rule it if you were really keen on disabling the enemy attacks.


It increases the duration of the spell.

I suppose it may not interact with caster level checks to overcome SR or concentration.


Yes.
Since it doesn't name an action it's likely just the ki expenditure.
The additional ki costs are probably only in case you pick such an ability.

I further assume that can use is meant to signify can select or meet the prerequisites.


As read it looks like only once, either attack or damage in your example.


Wouldn't it be twice?
Once for claws and once for bite?

Natural Spell Combat wrote:
For example, a magus could select this arcana twice, choosing claw attacks and bite attacks. This would allow him to use a full-round action to make all of his claw attacks with his free hand and all of his bite attacks in addition to casting a spell. This arcana otherwise functions exactly like the spell combat class feature

Yeah, I kind of guessed that it would be useless without spell combat.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:
Couldn’t an unattended scroll be used by someone else?

Yes but they'd have to use read magic first. I think.


The feat doesn't come with prerequisites but the benefit text heavily implies that spell combat would be one.
I would assume you couldn't pick that up with VMC 7th level Magus Arcana ability. But just to be clear.

Also just for kicks. For a Charda it would be 4 attacks (3 claws 1 bite) at -2 and a spell


@Blahpers
Yeah, that's what I figured. Thanks.

@shalandar
Haha, yeah, I'm getting these two confused all the time.
Anyway, there are lots of effects that get dispelled if they hit upon spell resistance.
Thank you for your concern, I'm actually the GM but I like to build my encounters based on "actual" rules. Though I don't think I will incorporate that, they are creations/summons after all and not just illusions. They even need proficiency apparently (makes sense, just saw another level 2 spell, whip of rocks, grants you the proficiency but they are regular attacks).

@Starglim
Compromise, 25 reach?


Why are the rules about reach suddenly changed?

Large "regular" reach weapons also have a reach of 20, even though they start only at 10 with medium size. It doesn't look very consistent.


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That seems fair.


So since it didn't touch the enemy it can't apply the Vampiric Touch either, right?

Edit:
Do you need the proficiency to use trip? The entry for scorpion whip states that you need proficiency in whip to use disarm/trip/reach.


Or some other spell database to find only spells without spell resistance or no saves?


Now the spell explicitly names that a true strike applied to the attack that allows you to use this spells will not be applied, but can you use true strike to apply it to the attack roll that is inherent to the the Arrow Eruption spell (say via quicken spell)?

And just to be sure, prescient attack would be a

Arrow Eruption wrote:
limited-use magical effects that you used to enhance that particular attack

,

correct?
What about a Magus' Arcane Pool ability to enhance the bow he's using?


I've seen this old thread that talked about some of these issues but there wasn't any real conclusion to it.

1. If you don't have weapon proficiency (whip, do you take -4 on attacks with River Whip/Whip of Spiders ?

2. The entry for whip has: disarm, nonlethal, reach, trip
Can you do all of that with a River Whip? The spell tells us that you always deal damage, I suppose to circumvent a normal whips issue with armor, but does it remain being non lethal damage?

3. How do whips interact with size increases? The general assumption would be that they double so they should be 30?

4. Let's say you cast Whip of Spiders -which can be overcome by spell resistance- with spell combat and Vampiric Touch. What happens when the Whip fails the caster level check to overcome SR? Is it dispelled? Does it become a spider swarm? Let's say the Vampiric Touch had succeeded its caster level check? Would it still apply?

edit: removed some abundant information.


Would be rather cheap to be granting a familiar and alertness feat at only 10 000.


@Sinivar
Well, I guess it was a roundabout way of saying that you can't use it with touch attacks. That isn't relevant to this thread?


@Sinivar
Which is exactly what I was referring to.

Because "normal" unarmed attacks don't ignore armor class.


Sure, but then you can't ignore armor.


I kind of assumed it would be more restrictive than that.


RAW it makes sense, but I don't think this was the intention.


Empyreal Pantheon trait?


First of all, here's how I understand this works.

When you hit an enemy (with a weapon attack, whatever that exactly is, we'll come back to that) the attacked creature loses its dexterity bonus (how does this interact with uncanny dodge?) to this attack (no effect unless you have sneak attack) and to every further attack (from you) until the end of your next round.

Prescient Attack wrote:
Benefit: The magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as an immediate action after hitting a target with a weapon attack, allowing him to anticipate his opponent’s defenses. The target is denied its Dexterity bonus against the magus’s attacks until the end of the magus’s next turn

What are weapon attacks?

Certainly manufactured weapons such as daggers, bows etc, likely unarmed strikes but what about natural weapons?

What about ray attacks? You can take weapon focus in them, so they should be weapons?

What about fiery shuriken, we play with being able to take weapon focus shuriken to get the +1 on those attacks so they're weapons. Maybe?

What about a river whip? It functions like a whip except you make touch attacks.

What about other spells, particularly the weapon like spells such as acid arrows, flame arrows, mages' swords or spiritual weapons?
I suppose the issue with spiritual weapon and mages' sword is that you're not actually the one wielding it.


@Diego Rossi
That seems unnecessarily harsh, but apparently rules as written.
In the end, it's a minor issue.


@Graystone
Indeed I have. Turns out I rather like my school granting extra slots and a familiar isn't too shabby either, or 9th level spells if we ever get to that.

@dragonhunter
We are. Is there a reason not to?
But yeah I should have mentioned that.


Retraining wrote:
When you retrain a class level, you lose all the benefits of the highest level you have in that class. You immediately select a different class, add a level in that class, and gain all the benefits of that new class level.

@Diego Rossi

You don't lose your class and its features until you actually finish retraining at which point the change happens immediately. Which means at no point you'd lose sneak attack (since Sleepless Detective also provides it) and therefore you wouldn't lose accomplished sneak attacker and consequently you'd keep your arcane trickster levels...

Unless of course you guys are privy to additional information that contradicts the "immediate" changing of classes.

I suppose the easier variant would be to just pick a level in Sleepless, then retrain alchemist into Arcane Trickster.

@Blahpers
I see, I guess this text had me confused.

Base Save Bonuses wrote:
There are only two base saving throw progressions: good and poor. Good saves progress at a rate of +1/2 per level, while poor saves progress at +1/3 per level. Additionally, saving throw bonuses with a good saving throw progression start higher, effectively incorporating an additional +2 bonus. Under the core rules, this additional bonus stacks between classes, letting a character who’s a 1st-level barbarian and a 1st-level fighter have a +4 Fortitude save bonus while his Reflex and Will saves stagnate. However, this higher initial saving throw bonus is intended to act like the +3 bonus received on a class skill: you should get it only once for a particular type of saving throw, regardless of the number of classes in which you have levels. Under this variant, the +2 bonus at 1st level to a good save no longer stacks between classes, so a character’s strongest saves are sometimes decreased. However, the improvements to that character’s weakest saves usually make up the difference, and such characters are much less likely to leap ahead of (or fall dramatically behind) their single-class peers.

It seems to imply that every 1st level fast progression bonus should be applied once...


@ryric
Well, as I understand you can use prestige classes to qualify for a different prestige class. The requirement for arcane trickster is equally given by the classes that change places, so unless retraining works by removing the old class first and then adding the new class that shouldn't be an issue.
Though maybe that's how it works, and that was essentially my question.

@blahpers
First level gets a +2 bonus on saving throws that advance at 1/2. When that class level gets exchanged there should be some changes to that.
Alchemist gives fortitude and reflex, wizard only gives will and sleepless gives reflex and will at 1/2 progression.

@Diego Rossi
Hence the second level in arcane trickster (which is only needed for the additional skill rank), the main issue brought up initially is that I was using the skill point from Vivisectionist that was being retrained into Sleepless Detective to qualify for Sleepless Detective.


Right...yeah, I missed that one.

Alright, so now you're instead an arcane trickster 2. You'd have 6 character levels.


When it came to retraining it used to be allowed to retrain a base class into a prestige class, so long as that base class level doesn't remove your prerequisite for the prestige class.

Now for the purpose of these questions, let's assume that under the previously outlaid conditions it's still possible to do that I wanna know how certain things would play out.

Let's say we have a:

1. Vivisectionist 1d6

2.-4. Wizard, Alertness from Familiar
3. Accomplished Sneak Attacker 2d6

5. Arcane Trickster

The idea would be to retrain Vivisectionist into Sleepless Detective, maintains the sneak attack prerequisite for Accomplished Sneak Attacker and thus the prerequisite for Arcane Trickster

Would Sleepless Detective become the first level? What I mean by this is how does it interact with

Would your hitpoints remain 8+4d6 or become 6+3d6+d8?

How about the Saving Throws? Would it revert to +2 Will at first level (from Wizard) rather than +2 Reflex and Fortitude from Alchemist or change to +2 Reflex +2 Will from having Sleepless Detective as a first level?

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